(bright upbeat music) - Hello, everyone time for "Powerful Women: Let's Talk."

We wanna thank you so much for joining us today.

I'm Jennifer Moss.

And it's a pleasure to bring you today's powerful woman, Brenda Brame.

Brenda is the Program Manager for the United Way's Kent County Tax Credit Coalition.

She's been in this position since 2003.

And in this position, Brenda develops free volunteer income tax assistance sites, recruits volunteers, and so much more.

Plus, she works for the community, making sure that the public is knowledgeable and aware of the free tax services that each volunteer income tax site offers as well as information about the earned income tax credit.

We're gonna talk more about more of what she does in just a moment, but first I wanna happily welcome Brenda Brame to "Powerful Women: Let's Talk."

It's such a pleasure to have you here with us today, Brenda.

- Thank you, Jennifer.

- And we're gonna start with your work at the United Way's Kent County Tax Credit Coalition.

So through your efforts and that of the coalition, along with your volunteers, of course, your project has generated more than $106 million in refunds and credits and has served more than 107,000 tax payers.

This is very important work in our community and the best kept secret.

'Cause a lot of people don't know they missed out on so much.

- Correct.

They really don't know about the credit.

For one, they don't know about the earning income tax credit, which was why I was initially brought on, was to make sure that people received that credit.

First of all, to know about the credit, they receive the credit and they get the credit free.

Because at the time over $11 million in that credit alone was going unclaimed.

Now we don't know how much actually goes unclaimed, because IRS no longer tracks it.

However, every time I'm talking to someone, they're like last week I was in a store and I was like, "Oh, let me tell you about something that you may not know about.

You can call 211, and have your taxes prepare free, if your household income is $58,000 or less."

And the lady looked at me, I said, "Oh, you didn't know about that, did you?"

She said, "No."

I said, "I tell you what I'm going to do.

I'm going to bring you some flyers by for your employees and you can share the wealth."

I say, because most people don't know that that service is offered to them and that it's offered absolutely free.

They also don't know that everyone preparing those returns have been certified by the IRS.

And I said, "And don't worry about your information, because we do background checks on everyone."

And she was excited to be able to offer that service to her employees and knowing that it would be absolutely free.

And so that, it would be like a gift to them at no charge to the company.

- Absolutely.

And a lot of people, again, you mentioned, they don't know about it.

Who is this intended for?

Who qualifies for such services?

- I'm glad you asked that question, because a lot of people think that they're low income, and they may not qualify for the services.

Well, I don't consider $58,000, low income.

So we always say low to moderate income families and individuals.

I mean this year, if you're a single person or married or unmarried, you may get a earned income tax credit, a loan of between 500 and $1,500 depending on your household income.

Now, a household of maybe four to five people, could get a earned income tax credit of over $6,700, depending on your income and how many children you have in the household.

These credits are for working and unworking.

We know we have the child tax credit, there's the home heating credit, the property tax credit.

All of these credits are available to our community members.

As long as your household income is $58,000 or less, they're available to you.

And so many people say, "Well, I can't afford it because it costs so much to have my return prepared."

I'm like, that's why I'm here.

What I need you to do is call 211 and get an appointment at one of our sites.

It doesn't matter if you cannot hear.

If you cannot hear we'll get an interpreter for you.

It doesn't matter if English is your second language or not, because we'll make sure there's an interpreter for that.

We want to make sure that everyone is served and served with respect and with quality.

And if you say, "Brenda, my household income is over $58,000."

I'm gonna say, "Don't worry, don't worry.

I need you to go to the United Way website, click on my free taxes and prepare your own return free."

I mean, if it's $73,000, you can do it free.

And then if you run into a glitch, there's a number for you to call or email to call to get an answer.

- One thing I love about, we're just beginning the conversation, but I see an excitement and a commitment from your dedication.

So, whether you're advocating for seniors or you're increasing social security awareness or bridging those gaps, as you talk about between economic classes, you are on a mission to improve the quality of life in our communities.

Is that an important part of your journey?

- That's an important part of my journey.

There's been a time in my life where life happened to me and I needed services and did not know about the services that were out there.

And really there wasn't anyone to tell me about the services.

And I just so happened to be walking down the street because I would always try to take my daughters for my first life to free activities.

Because as my motto is just because you don't have the funding doesn't mean that you can't do things and enjoy life.

So I would find free activities in Grand Rapids to do.

And we were walking by the women's resource center and I happened to go in and they began to help me walk through my journey.

And then from that part, I established a village.

And so I am on a journey to make sure that people have a better life, regardless to what that life looked like or what it may have looked like.

Even if you are gainfully employed, life still happens to you.

You just may need someone to listen.

You may need someone to say, "What do you think about this?

Is that a good idea?"

And I always tell people, don't ask me unless you really want to know.

(laughs) And they'll say, "Well, I wanna know."

I say, "Well, let's process it."

And so then we'll start unpacking and repacking to see what the steps need to be and just process the entire thing.

Just like my work, process it, timeline it and make it happen.

And so, yeah, it is definitely my passion and my desire to help others to have a good life, a valuable life, a quality life.

It doesn't matter if it's little people or if it's seniors, mature adults, because there's so many mature adults who don't have anyone looking out for them.

That's actually how I got into this.

- And so many people miss out on a piece of life, thinking that either I don't deserve of it or I can't get to that, or it's just not gonna happen for me.

- [Brenda] Yes.

- So helping to improve others, as we talked about, that's part of your journey, but I mentioned too, as you mentioned, kind of alluded to in your own walk, it hasn't always been easy.

As we talk about powerful women, have there been any barriers that perhaps you've encountered as you traveled along your life/career path?

- Yes.

There have been barriers.

I've had barriers like other African American women have had.

First of all, I'm a lady.

Undeniably, I enjoy being who I am.

Second of all, I'm an African American lady.

And that's a barrier because people don't always think that we're supposed to succeed and we do.

They have this notion that we're not always truthful or there's an underlying agenda.

And that's not always the case.

And so I've had to deal with that.

I've had to deal with people asking me several times, is that what you said?

Is that correct?

Do you have the paperwork?

Do have the data?

Are you sure?

- 'Cause they didn't believe you?

- 'Cause they didn't believe me.

And my thing is that's hard.

That's not something that society talks about.

They don't talk about us not being believed or us as African Americans and African American women being second guessed.

Why can't you just take my word?

Why do I have to be a lie?

That has been the hardest thing for me in my life.

Just believe me.

I don't have a reason to lie.

And I tell people at my age and now what do I have to lose than telling the truth.

- Have you made progress with that?

Do you feel like you are- - I feel- - Received.

And you're what you're saying is accounted for and believed by those you're presenting it to.

- Yes.

Let me put it like this.

There were people that I had to ask God to put in my life to help me get my work done.

So one of my pieces of wisdom to someone else would be, don't be afraid to have God place someone in your life to help you get your work done.

It's not about people seeing me or people seeing you, it's about the end results of that work.

Will it make someone else's life better?

Because what I do is not about Brenda, it's about all the people that I serve.

And so He's put people in my life to help me navigate those rough roads and that's made a difference.

So when I think of it like that, I'm like, yeah, I've made some progress.

- Absolutely like to say, work is under God and not unto man.

- Exactly.

And I've always looked at my work as a ministry and not a job.

I say I just happen to get paid for my ministry and what I love doing.

- Absolutely.

So Brenda, along that journey, we continue on the journey and we talk about things.

How did you find your voice?

You gotta get comfortable in your own skin to be a leader, to be able to do what you do, to be able to speak to things that you're talking about.

How did you get that voice going and get comfortable enough to do what you do?

- Wow!

That's a big question.

It was really- Well, okay, so I'm married to the Reverend Dr. Walter M. Brame.

- [Jennifer] That is correct.

- And so people who know him know that that's huge.

And I heard someone introducing me and they were always introduce me as Brenda Brame.

This is Dr. Brame's wife.

And I would think like, wow, okay.

I'm a person too.

- Absolutely.

- And then someone said, and this was Ellen James.

And she will never know how much that meant to me.

She said, this is Brenda Brame, Dr. Walter Brame's wife.

But she's a woman in her own right.

And that gave me power that I didn't even realize I had.

It's like, okay, I matter, I make a difference.

I have a voice and I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

And then I remember where it said, you gotta move ahead and you gotta do what is right.

And you gotta do what is pure, and you gotta do what is honest.

And I was like, "God, I can do that.

As long as you walk with me, I can do this and I can get this done."

And so I've always asked him to open doors for me to speak truth to power.

And that's why I always say, don't ask me anything unless you really want to know.

- Get ready, get ready.

'Cause if you really wanna know- - You're right.

- I will tell you.

- Yes.

- Brenda Brame, thank you so much for taking time to talk to us today.

What a great conversation and what words of wisdom we can all carry with us.

We so appreciate you.

And we appreciate you tuning in.

Thank you so much for joining us for another edition of "Powerful Women: Let's Talk."

I'm Jennifer Moss, we'll see you next time.

(bright upbeat music) - Well, she leads, she strategizes, she volunteers.

Deborah Phillips is a seasoned executive, specializing in strategic human capital management.

Currently serving as Chief People Officer at Natural Choice Foods.

Much, much more on her resume, including a favorite daily habit.

So welcome to this edition of "Powerful Woman:Let's Talk," Deborah Phillips.

- Thank you Shelley for having me here today.

- I wanna get right into a daily habit of yours.

I'm gonna spill the beans.

Are you addicted to coffee?

- I'm addicted to Starbucks coffee.

(both laughing) And I think it's because- I didn't start drinking coffee till I was almost 50.

- Wow!

- And so my daughter was a barista at Starbucks and got me hooked on it.

And I have my daily Starbucks as my treat.

- All right, let's make sure the community is aware of that.

You are successful.

Congratulations, leadership important in your life.

Were you born or made a leader, Deborah?

- I was made a leader.

And I worked hard to become a leader.

I had a very strong mother, and my mother expected a lot of me.

And so I worked hard to become a leader.

And I think it came from a nun in school when I was in sixth grade, who said to me, "Deborah, you're gonna be a follower and you'll never be a leader."

And I think from then on, I knew I was gonna be a leader.

- [Shelley] Did you ever go back to that nun and say, "Look where I am now?"

- I wish I could.

(laughs) - What was your educational journey to get you well to your first job at least?

- So like many young women growing up in the late 60s and early 70s, I went to what they called secretarial school.

As they said it was Brown Mackie Business School.

A lot of women started out that way.

And after I finished at Brown Mackie, which is now Brown Mackie College, I took a job as a secretary in the human resources department at a trucking company.

And I loved everything about human resources.

And I had a wonderful boss who taught me all the aspects of human resources.

And when that company closed, then I went to a manufacturing firm and I was working as an executive assistant for the CEO.

And that CEO, once again, wonderful boss, taught me all there was about business and people.

And so then I finally had an opportunity.

We moved to Grand Rapids, Michigan, and I went to work for this very small company called Butterworth HMO that had 30 employees.

And I was going to oversee their HR department.

And from there I realized then that I needed to go back to school.

So I enrolled at Davenport here in Grand Rapids, and took all the classes that I could take that would round me out in the world of business and people.

- So that you would be consider a nontraditional student.

- I was a nontraditional student.

Absolutely.

- And obviously it worked because look at you today.

Did you choose then your career progression to well, where you are today?

- I would say that I chose the career progression, in that I always wanted to be in human resource.

And so once I had the opportunity to step out of that secretarial role into an opportunity to build a function at this very small company, Butterworth HMO, which eventually became Priority Health.

And going back to the society of human resource management and joining that, and really then, got my certification first, as a professional in human resources.

And then after several years, I was able to go back and become a senior certified professional.

And that says a lot, if you believe in the discipline in science of human resources about people, 'cause people are so precious and their lives are so precious when they work with you.

If you can become a seasoned professional, once we take this very difficult test, we have every three years to take credits, to stay certified forever and ever.

So you have to be well versed in your discipline, in the world of human resources.

And that's what I chose to do.

I wanted to do that.

- Yes.

- I'd like to say that I had, probably somebody that helped me immensely at the time that Butterworth HMO was moving to Priority Health.

Fred Vandenberg was there as an Interim CEO and he was a wonderful mentor to me.

And he said to me, "Deborah, when we spend time together, you talk a language and it's a language of HR.

I want you to start talking the language of the business.

I want you to make the CFO your best friend.

And I want you to learn how through this whole system to follow the dollar and learn how this company makes money."

And that's probably the best advice that anyone ever gave me, is that you can be... You can wear your HR hat, but you also have to be well disciplined in the world of business.

And so that made me then look at the number of classes I wanted to take that could round out my disciplines on both sides of business and people.

- Here, you give an example of a positive influence in your life versus the nun that gave you a negative influence.

Thank you for that.

I wanna stay on the topic of mentoring and what it may take to be a positive person in a young woman's life that could possibly change her career trajectory.

How important is it to be a mentor or to be a mentee?

- I like to think that every woman who has had a successful career and, starting out in the early 70s in my career, it wasn't always as easy as it is for young women today.

And there were fewer women sitting in a boardroom or sitting in senior executive positions.

So I really believe when we reach a certain level, I almost feel like it's our responsibility to be that mentor and to give back not unlike you, what you've done for so many years, with all the charities and the organizations you support.

But I really believe that it is our responsibility.

I love mentoring young women to help them with their career, whether it's mentoring, coaching, helping them get a leg up or whatever you call it.

But I have two words of advice on that, Shelley, when I think about it.

If you agree to be the mentor to that young woman or that person, and you've said that you're gonna commit the time, then give them the time.

So often I see people say, they'll be a mentor, but then they canceled every meeting they're gonna have.

And for anyone listening who's a young woman, who'd like to reach out for someone for mentoring, when you get that precious time from that executive, and they give you homework to do, or articles to read, do it, please come prepared.

You are getting that time and an opportunity to learn and grow.

And I always like to say to the person I'm mentoring, prepare an agenda and send it to me a day in advance, so I know how to prepare for you.

That way, it's really a good use of their time.

But I wish that every successful woman would be mentoring one or two people to help them move up in their career.

- Class, learning, accountability never ends, does it Deborah?

- Right.

- What do you look for in your leaders?

- So I learned something.

I used to love the word resiliency and grit.

There were two things that I always looked for in people.

And there's a blog that I get every Sunday now, that started since COVID.

And through this, I have watched how the world of work has been changing because of what we've been through and the empathy that we all need.

And this person that I get their blog, what I appreciate about it is that he talks about grit, but he adds at the front side of it, grace.

Grace plus grit.

Those are my two things now, when I'm looking at people today, because the grace side for me means empathy.

It means that I can care what people are experiencing.

We care so much- We should care so much differently about the people we have for what they're experiencing because of this pandemic.

So my new words are now grace plus grit.

And I think resiliency is important.

I do think that people, leaders really need to be able to bounce back, but also recognizing that grace time to be prepared, to come back and be strong again.

We all take bumps and hits along the way.

- As we should.

Yes.

Imagine that's one of the reasons why you were so successful in the human resources field.

What do you look for when you are looking or having asked to be on a board or a committee?

What should one look for in saying yes or no?

- I'm glad you asked that question.

And I do get asked that frequently from young women that says, can you help me get on a board?

And the first thing that I say to them, is what are you passionate about?

Because as women, more often than not, we're gonna serve on a nonprofit board.

So if you're going to donate your time, you wanna be absolutely passionate about their mission, believe in it, because you'll be investing your time to make sure that they can be successful.

So love what they're doing, is what I suggest.

- And it's okay to say, no.

- And it is okay to say no.

- Make a note on that.

More fun facts besides the coffee.

Deborah Phillips, you are described, and I'm quoting by others as shy and reserved, yet a naughty sense of humor.

(Deborah laughs) Is that the secret to success?

Tell me more.

- Well, I am an introvert by nature.

And I think I am often described by people that say, Deborah, you're so shy and reserved.

And I know that's not who I am in my close circle of friends.

So I do have a sort of wicked sense of humor that can be naughty.

So I probably couldn't say exactly what that looks like.

All I can say is Shelley experienced it once.

Most recently at a retirement party we had, and people were surprised to see me come out of my shell a little bit.

- What happens at that party stays- - At that party.

Exactly right.

- Again, it's all about moderation and balance.

- So not maybe the secret to my success.

It's just- (both laughing) - I want you to talk about the Treehouse.

What does this mean?

- I love the Treehouse master and I want a Treehouse.

I have the perfect trees in my yard.

I know what I wanna do.

And my Treehouse will have a fireplace.

It'll be small.

It'll have an indoor bathroom and it'll be cozy like a cottage.

That's what I want.

I've picked out the trees.

I'm not sure that my husband's gonna allow me to get the Treehouse master to build it for me, but, still that's my dream.

And that's where I'll be in full retirement.

- What is your secret to success if a young woman asks you that, Deborah?

- What I like to say my secret to success, is I looked out for the long term.

If you think over the life cycle that people are gonna be with you or that you want them to be with you, what they might need when they come into you, earlier in their career is not what they need later in their career.

So if you can do the data and the analysis of your people, looking over of them, over the life cycle of their time with you, and then how do you take that data and say, what should the organization and people look like five years out?

What jobs might they be doing?

And are they new skills and will you need to upskill them?

And then more importantly, if they're not new skills, where they'll be new jobs that don't exist today, what will those skills look like?

So I think the secret to success is not taking that everyday look, but taking that look that takes a long term aspect of the people that will be with you through the life cycle.

Someone once said, companies need to have strategy.

Absolutely, companies need strategy and a good strategy.

But at the end of the day, I'm gonna bet on people and not strategy.

That's my motto.

- Thank you for this conversation, Deborah Phillips.

- Thank you, Shelley.

- That does it for this edition of "Powerful Women: Let's Talk."

I'm Shelley Irwin.

(bright upbeat music)