ANNOUNCER: BRICK BY BRICK IS MADE POSSIBLE THANKS TO LEADING SUPPORT FROM: ...AND MANY MORE.

WE COULDN'T DO THIS WORK WITHOUT YOU, THANK YOU.

THOMPSON: PULLING TOGETHER, THAT'S HOW MANY CITIES AND NEIGHBORHOODS RESPOND TO CHALLENGES, SUCH AS WITH THE NEED FOR HOUSING AND AFFORDABLE RENTS.

WE SEE IT HAPPENING NOW IN OUR REGION IN DIFFERENT WAYS AS WE'VE SHARED ON THIS SHOW.

HOWEVER, FINDING THE COMMON GROUND FOR MORE POLITICAL SOLUTIONS HAS FELT OUT OF REACH.

CAN WE FIND A BIPARTISAN WAY FORWARD AT THE STATEHOUSE?

MATHEWS: AND IT IS VERY DIFFICULT FOR ANY SINGLE EARNER, EVEN YOUR AVERAGE INCOME EARNER IN OHIO, TO AFFORD ANYTHING THERE THAT IS A STARTER HOME.

AND I THINK MEDIAN INCOMES SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET A STARTER HOME.

THOMPSON: ON TODAY'S SHOW, A SPECIAL SIT DOWN WITH STATE REPS.

CINCINNATI DEMOCRAT DANI ISAACSOHN AND LEBANON AND MASON REPUBLICAN ADAM MATTHEWS.

WE DISCUSSED THEIR COLLABORATIVE EFFORT TO INCENTIVIZE NEW HOUSING ACROSS THE STATE.

BUT FIRST, A DIFFERENT HOUSING STRATEGY REQUIRING COMMON GROUND, THE COMMUNITY LAND TRUST.

SIEBEL: LAND IS OUR MOST POWERFUL RESOURCE.

WE'RE COMMITTED TO BEING STEWARDS WITH SHARED GOVERNANCE.

THOMPSON: HOW LOCAL GROUPS ARE USING THIS LAND OWNERSHIP MODEL TO CREATE HOUSING, KEEP IT AFFORDABLE AND BENEFIT OUR NEIGHBORS.

LET'S GET INTO IT.

THIS IS BRICK BY BRICK: SOLUTIONS FOR A THRIVING COMMUNITY.

HELLO AND WELCOME TO BRICK BY BRICK, WHERE WE EXPLORE COMMUNITY SOLUTIONS TO SOME OF SOUTHWEST OHIO'S KEY ISSUES, INCLUDING HOUSING.

AS USUAL, JOINING US ON THIS JOURNEY IS THE TEAM, MULTIMEDIA JOURNALIST HERNZ LAGUERRE, JR.

AND EMIKO MOORE.

LAGUERRE: HELLO!

MOORE: GREAT TO BE HERE.

THOMPSON: THE THEME FOR THIS EPISODE IS COMMON GROUND, BOTH IN THE FIGURAL SENSE OF FINDING AGREEMENT, BUT ALSO LITERALLY WHEN IT COMES TO CO-OWNING LAND ITSELF.

MOORE: I REALLY LIKE THIS BECAUSE IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT COMMON GROUND, WHETHER IT'S BIPARTISANSHIP OR WHETHER IT'S WITH COMMUNITY LAND TRUST, THE MAIN GOAL IS ABOUT FINDING AFFORDABLE HOUSING FOR EVERYONE.

THOMPSON: AND AS WE'VE SHOWN IN OUR REPORTING, THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY EASY, CREATING MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING WHEN IT COMES TO OWNING AND RENTING.

AND HERNZ ESPECIALLY FINDING COMMON GROUND IS IMPORTANT WHEN IT COMES TO COMMUNITY LAND TRUSTS.

LAGUERRE: EXACTLY.

YOU KNOW, THE LAND TRUST MODEL MAKES NEIGHBORHOODS, COMMUNITIES, AND PROPERTIES FOREVER AFFORDABLE.

AND FOR A MODEL THAT HAS HISTORICALLY RECEIVED BIPARTISAN SUPPORT, IT'S EVIDENCE, YOU KNOW, CONTRARY TO POPULAR BELIEF, THAT THERE ARE SOLUTIONS THAT BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE CAN AGREE UPON.

THOMPSON: ALL RIGHT, WELL, LET'S DIG BENEATH THE SURFACE, SHALL WE?

LAGUERRE: YES, MA'AM.

MOORE: SOUNDS GOOD.

THOMPSON: WE'LL SEE YOU IN A BIT.

THAT MODEL, THE COMMUNITY LAND TRUST APPROACH, IS GROWING IN USAGE ACROSS THE COUNTRY, FROM LARGER CITIES TO SMALLER TOWNS.

HERE'S HOW IT WORKS.

NONPROFITS ACQUIRE LAND WITH THE HELP OF DONATIONS, FUNDRAISING, AND SUBSIDIES.

THESE TRUSTS RETAIN OWNERSHIP OF THE LAND IN PERPETUITY, BUT DEVELOP AND SELL HOUSING AT AN AFFORDABLE RATE.

DOWN THE ROAD, WHEN THE HOMEOWNER GETS READY TO MOVE, THAT PERSON CAN ONLY SELL FOR A SET AMOUNT, KEEPING THE HOME AFFORDABLE TO THE NEXT PERSON, AND SO ON.

ONE OF THE LATEST COUNTS IDENTIFIED MORE THAN 300 COMMUNITY LAND TRUSTS IN THE U.S., AND IT'S NOT A NEW IDEA BY ANY MEANS.

IT ORIGINATED AS PART OF THE SOUTHERN CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT IN GEORGIA.

IN THE EARLY 1960S ACTIVIST SHIRLEY SHERROD AND HER LATE HUSBAND, CHARLES, RECOGNIZED THAT AS BLACK FAMILIES WERE WORKING TO GAIN RIGHTS, THOSE LIVING ON LAND OWNED BY WHITES WOULD GET KICKED OFF IN RETRIBUTION.

SO THE SHERRODS AND OTHERS TRAVELED ABROAD, LEARNING ABOUT THE KIBBUTZ IN ISRAEL AND OTHER COMMUNITY OWNERSHIP MODELS IN ENGLAND, INDIA, TANZANIA AND MEXICO.

WHEN THEY CAME BACK, THEY ACTUALLY BOUGHT 6000 ACRES IN SOUTHWEST GEORGIA, LAYING THE GROUNDWORK FOR THE FIRST LAND TRUST.

SHERROD: SO THE ORIGINAL PLAN WAS THAT THEY WOULD ACTUALLY BECOME HOME OWNERS.

THEY WOULD GET A LONG TERM RENEWABLE LEASE ON THE PLOT WHERE THEIR HOUSE WAS LOCATED, SO THEY WOULD ACTUALLY OWN THE HOME.

AND THEN WE'D ALL OWN THE LAND TOGETHER.

BUT OF COURSE, BECAUSE OF THE OPPOSITION, WE COULDN'T MOVE FORWARD.

THOMPSON: THAT OPPOSITION INCLUDED SHOTS FIRED AT BUILDINGS ON THE PROPERTY, AS WELL AS VETOES OF FEDERAL MONEY TO BUILD HOMES.

EVENTUALLY, THE GROUP WAS FORCED TO PIVOT AND HELP THEIR COMMUNITY IN OTHER WAYS, BUT THEIR INITIAL EFFORT PLANTED THE SEED OF AN IDEA THAT MANY OTHER COMMUNITY LAND TRUSTS HAVE EMBRACED.

INCLUDING IN YELLOW SPRINGS, OHIO, WHERE THEY HAVE ONE OF THE OLDEST COMMUNITY LAND TRUSTS IN THE NATION.

BRICK BY BRICK'S HERNZ LAGUERRE, JR.

REPORTS ON HOW IT OPERATES, HOW IT DIFFERS FROM ONE IN CINCINNATI, AND HOW BOTH MODELS ARE HELPING PEOPLE FIND AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

LAGUERRE: YELLOW SPRINGS IS A COMPETITIVE HOUSING MARKET, WITH THE MEDIAN SALES PRICE OF $450,000, ACCORDING TO ONLINE REAL ESTATE COMPANY REDFIN.

THIS IS WHERE YELLOW SPRINGS HOME INC.

STEPS IN.

SIEBEL: OUR MISSION IS TO STRENGTHEN COMMUNITY AND DIVERSITY BY PROVIDING PERMANENTLY AFFORDABLE AND SUSTAINABLE HOUSING THROUGH OUR COMMUNITY LAND TRUST.

LAGUERRE: IN LATE 2024, WE MET WITH EMILY SIEBEL, THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF HOME, INC.

THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION HAS BEEN OPERATING FOR MORE THAN A QUARTER OF A CENTURY.

SHE EXPLAINS HOW THESE LAND TRUSTS KEEP HOMES FOREVER AFFORDABLE.

SIEBEL: SO WE'RE TAKING LAND AND PUTTING IT INTO A TRUST THAT HAS COMMUNITY GOVERNANCE.

WE'RE PRESERVING PUBLIC SUBSIDY FOR THE GREATER GOOD AND WE'RE THINKING GENERATIONS AHEAD, BECAUSE LAND IS VERY POWERFUL.

LAGUERRE: WITH MORE THAN 40 PROPERTIES IN THEIR PORTFOLIO, HOME INC.

IS BREAKING GROUND ON THE NEW DEVELOPMENT CALLED THE CASCADES, THAT WOULD EXPAND THEIR LAND TRUST IN YELLOW SPRINGS.

SIEBEL: THIS IS THE FUTURE SITE OF THE CASCADES PROJECT, WHICH IS OVER TEN YEARS IN THE MAKING.

IT'S AT LEAST A $10 MILLION PROJECT, AND WE'RE DOING IT IN PHASES.

LAGUERRE: AND IN AUGUST OF 2025, THEY OFFICIALLY COMPLETED PHASE ONE OF THE PROJECT WITH THEIR OPEN HOUSE CEREMONY.

EMILY SHARES WHAT THE CASCADES WILL PROVIDE IN YELLOW SPRINGS.

SIEBEL: SO NOW WE HAVE EIGHT NEW RENTAL UNITS.

EVENTUALLY WE'RE GOING TO HAVE 22 RENTALS ON THIS SITE AND TEN FOR SALE TOWNHOMES.

THIS HOUSING IS SPECIFICALLY FOR SENIORS, THIS RENTAL HOUSING, AND THAT'S BEEN IDENTIFIED AS A PENT UP NEED AND DEMAND.

BUT TO JUST BE AT THE POINT WHERE THE FIRST RESIDENT IS MOVING IN, WAS PHENOMENAL.

LAGUERRE: THE FIRST RESIDENT IS A RETIREE NAMED SHARON MOHLER.

SHE WAS A TENANT AT AN OLDER HOME OF HOME INC.

THAT NEEDED REPAIR, SO THEY MOVED HER TO THE CASCADES, WHICH BETTER FITS HER NEEDS.

MOHLER: I HAD TO GO AROUND THE BASE TO GET TO THE BASEMENT TO DO THE WASHING.

AND WALKING IS BECOMING KIND OF DANGEROUS FOR ME OVER THE ROUGH GROUND, SO THEY TRANSFERRED ME TO HERE.

LAGUERRE: WE WOULD SAY YOU MOVED HERE BECAUSE OF WALKABILITY?

MOHLER: YES, YES.

AND THE FACT THAT THE WASHER AND DRYER ARE RIGHT WHERE I CAN REACH THEM WITHOUT ME PUTTING MY LIFE ON THE LINE TO GET TO THEM.

LAGUERRE: AND NOW SHE CAN WALK AROUND EASIER AND TEND TO HER GARDEN.

SHARON DESCRIBES HER FEELING OF MOVING TO THE CASCADES AS... MOHLER: DELIGHT, ABSOLUTELY HAPPINESS.

I'M DELIGHTED THAT THERE ARE THINGS GROWING AROUND MY LITTLE APARTMENT, AND THAT THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE HERE THAT LIKE TO GROW STUFF, TOO.

LAGUERRE: DURING OUR REPORTING IN LATE 2024, WE ALSO CHECKED OUT AN ORGANIZATION IN CINCINNATI THAT APPROACHES LAND TRUST DIFFERENTLY.

SPINNEY: SO WE'RE A LAND TRUST, BUT WE FEEL LIKE WE'VE EVOLVED TO HAVE A SOLUTION FOR LAND TRUST TO DEAL WITH RENTAL HOUSING.

LAGUERRE: COOL.

SO, IT'S LIKE A LAND TRUST HYBRID.

SPINNEY: YES, IT'S DEFINITELY A LAND TRUST HYBRID.

LAGUERRE: MARGERY SPINNEY IS THE CO-FOUNDER OF THE ORGANIZATION RENTING PARTNERSHIPS, WHICH HAS A LAND TRUST THAT BUILDS FINANCIAL EQUITY THROUGH RESIDENT PARTICIPATION AND COMMUNITY MANAGEMENT.

SPINNEY: WE'RE FINISHING UP CONSTRUCTION ON A TEN UNIT BUILDING IN AVONDALE.

LAGUERRE: THEY FINISHED CONSTRUCTION IN THE EARLY SUMMER OF 2025 AND RESIDENTS WERE MOVING IN THAT JUNE.

SO WE REVISITED THE NEW DEVELOPMENT ON SHALLOWFORD PLACE IN AVONDALE.

AS OF OCTOBER OF 2025 EVERY UNIT WILL BE FILLED.

THE NEW DEVELOPMENT CAN SECURE AFFORDABILITY NO MATTER IF MARKET FORCES RAISES RENTS.

SPINNEY: WE NEED TO FOCUS ON BUILDING COMMUNITIES AND MAKING HOUSING A PLACE THAT PEOPLE CAN CALL HOME.

AND I THINK PEOPLE ARE BEING -- ARE LOSING THAT OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE WE'VE COMMODITIZED THE HOUSING.

LAGUERRE: ONE RESIDENT, BRENDA DIXON, SAYS THE NEW DEVELOPMENT DIDN'T JUST GIVE HER AN OPPORTUNITY FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING, BUT IT GAVE HER THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE CLOSER TO FAMILY.

DIXON: IT'S A NEW PLACE AND EVERYTHING WAS BRAND NEW AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S A NICE, QUIET BUILDING AND I JUST REALLY ENJOY IT.

PLUS, I'M JUST RIGHT UP THE STREET HERE FROM MY DAUGHTER AND MY GRANDSON.

SO I LIKE IT, I DO.

LAGUERRE: BRING ME BACK TO THE MOMENT WHEN YOU KNEW THAT YOU WERE APPROVED TO LIVE HERE.

DIXON: I WAS ELATED.

I HAD NEVER HEARD, ACTUALLY, ABOUT A RENTERS PARTNERSHIP.

I JUST REALLY, YOU KNOW, I JUST I FEEL WHOLESOME, I FEEL SAFE HERE.

LAGUERRE: I JUST EXAMPLES LIKE BRENDA AND SHARON ARE GREAT CASES FOR WHY LAND TRUSTS ARE WHERE AFFORDABILITY AND EQUITY SHARE COMMON GROUND.

SIEBEL: RESIDENTS ARE INVOLVED IN THE LEADERSHIP OF THE LAND TRUST AND IT IS DEEPLY DEMOCRATIC.

IT'S A DEEPLY DEMOCRATIC WAY OF APPROACHING LAND OWNERSHIP, AS WELL AS MAKING DECISIONS THAT IMPACT PEOPLE'S LIVES.

I THINK IT'S A GREAT TOOL IN THE TOOLBOX, AND I THINK THAT THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS THAT CAN BE DONE WITH THIS TOOL, EVEN BEYOND JUST AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

THOMPSON: BACK IN THE STUDIO NOW.

THANKS FOR THAT STORY, HERNZ.

AND IT'S INTERESTING HOW THE EFFORT IN YELLOW SPRINGS COULD POSSIBLY LEAD TO A LAND TRUST IN DAYTON.

LAGUERRE: YEAH.

YOU KNOW, IT'S WORKING SO WELL IN YELLOW SPRINGS, GROUPS LIKE CO-OP DAYTON ARE WORKING WITH YELLOW SPRINGS HOME INC.

TO SEE HOW THEY COULD COPY THAT GOVERNANCE STRUCTURE IN DAYTON.

AND EMILY SIEBEL SAYS SHE WANTS IT TO BE UNIQUE TO THE DAYTON COMMUNITIES AND CATER TO THEIR NEEDS.

THOMPSON: AND THE GROUP FROM CINCINNATI?

LAGUERRE: YEAH, RENTING PARTNERSHIPS, THEY'RE BUILDING MOMENTUM AS WELL.

THEY FORMED A STEERING COMMITTEE WITH SOME VOLUNTEERS TO SEE WHAT OTHER LAND THEY COULD ACQUIRE IN THE CITY OF CINCINNATI.

AND IF YOU WANT TO CHECK OUT SOME MORE STORIES ON HOW THESE LAND TRUSTS HAVE HELPED LOCAL RESIDENTS, WE FEATURED TWO OTHER EXAMPLES FOR YOU TO CHECK OUT CHECKOUT ONLINE.

THOMPSON: THANKS FOR THAT, HERNZ.

WE'LL CHECK IN WITH YOU LATER FOR THE TAKEAWAYS.

LAGUERRE: YES, MA'AM.

THOMPSON: WHEN IT COMES TO SIZE, LAND TRUSTS DEFINITELY VARY.

THE LARGEST LAND TRUST IN THE COUNTRY HAS MORE THAN 3000 PROPERTIES, AND IT'S IN VERMONT.

BUT MOST HAVE FEWER THAN 100 PROPERTIES.

RESEARCH SHOWS ABOUT 88% OF PEOPLE WHO OWN HOMES IN LAND TRUST ARE FIRST TIME HOMEBUYERS, AND THERE ARE OTHER BENEFITS.

IT'S NO SURPRISE, THEN, THAT CLTS HAVE INCREASED 30% IN THE LAST DECADE.

BUT AS WE KNOW WITH MOST SOLUTIONS, IT TOO HAS ITS LIMITATIONS.

ONE OBVIOUS LIMITATION IS THE MONEY IT TAKES TO BUY HOUSING, ESPECIALLY IN MORE EXPENSIVE CITIES.

WHILE IT MAY LIMIT THE FOOTPRINT OF A LAND TRUST, MANY ORGANIZATIONS ARE ALSO USING THEIR VOICES TO ADVOCATE FOR THE NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE THEY EXIST, WORKING TO IMPACT POLICY AT THE CITY AND STATE LEVEL BEYOND THE LIMITED HOUSING THEY CAN OFFER.

ASIDE FROM THE COST OF LAND, THERE ARE CONSTRUCTION AND RENOVATION COSTS, AS WELL AS POSSIBLE LAND USE RULES THAT CAN SLOW DOWN THESE EFFORTS.

THESE LIMITATIONS MAKE SCALING UP COMMUNITY LAND TRUSTS A CHALLENGE.

AS OF 2022, SHARED EQUITY HOMEOWNERSHIP MODELS, OF WHICH THE COMMUNITY LAND TRUST IS ONE, MAKE UP A VERY SMALL PORTION OF HOMEOWNERSHIP, AROUND 13,000 HOMES.

THAT'S WELL BELOW 1%.

ADVOCATES SAY THE GOAL SHOULD BE MUCH HIGHER.

RIGHT NOW, OHIO'S CITIES ARE SHORT TENS OF THOUSANDS OF AFFORDABLE RENTAL UNITS.

AND FOR OHIOANS WHO CAN AFFORD TO BUY A HOUSE, THEY'RE PAYING AT LEAST 50% MORE SINCE THE PANDEMIC.

WITH PRICES IN MIND, A BIPARTISAN GROUP OF OHIO STATE LAWMAKERS IS WORKING TO INCENTIVIZE NEW HOUSING ACROSS THE STATE.

DANI ISAACSOHN, A DEMOCRAT, AND ADAM MATTHEWS, A REPUBLICAN, RECENTLY SAT DOWN WITH ME TO DISCUSS THE PLAN, PARTS OF WHICH MADE IT INTO THE LAST BUDGET.

TAKE A LOOK.

OHIO HOUSE MINORITY LEADER DANI ISAACSOHN, A DEMOCRAT REPRESENTING DISTRICT 24 IN CINCINNATI, AND STATE REPRESENTATIVE ADAM MATTHEWS, A REPUBLICAN REPRESENTING DISTRICT 56, WHICH INCLUDES LEBANON AND MASON, HAVE A BOLD IDEA AND JOINED US TO TALK ABOUT IT.

WELCOME TO BRICK BY BRICK.

ISAACSOHN: THANKS SO MUCH FOR HAVING US.

MATHEWS: GLAD TO BE HERE.

THOMPSON: SO, GUYS, HOW DID YOU JOIN FORCES ON THIS?

MATHEWS: REPRESENTATIVE ISAACSOHN CAME WITH AN IDEA LOOKING AT THE RED STATE OF UTAH, HAVING WAYS THAT WE COULD GET RID OF OVERLY BURDENSOME REGULATIONS TO ALLOW DEVELOPERS, TO ALLOW MUNICIPALITIES TO BUILD MORE HOMES.

AND COMING TOGETHER, WE HAD BEEN SPEAKING TOGETHER ON DIFFERENT TYPES OF POLICIES, TRYING TO DO WHAT'S GOOD FOR THE WHOLE INSTITUTION OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, AS WELL AS OHIO.

AND THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT, AS HE'S MENTIONED IN OTHER CONVERSATIONS, THAT WE HAVE SO MANY PROBLEMS IN HOUSING THAT WE CAN HAVE BIPARTISAN SOLUTIONS BEFORE WE CAN EVEN GET TO THE TYPES OF WAYS THAT WE MAY DISAGREE WITH ONE ANOTHER.

THOMPSON: YEAH.

AND SO HERE AT BRICK BY BRICK, WE TALK A LOT ABOUT THE HOUSING CRISIS.

IN FACT, WE KNOW THAT OUR GREATER METRO AREAS ARE SHORT TENS OF THOUSANDS OF ADDITIONAL UNITS.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ARE THE MAIN REASONS THAT OHIO HAS BEEN UNABLE TO JUMPSTART A LARGE SCALE BUILDING BOOM WHEN IT COMES TO HOUSES AND APARTMENTS?

REPRESENTATIVE ISAACSOHN.

ISAACSOHN: OH, THANK YOU.

YOU KNOW, WE SPENT, THE TWO OF US, AT LEAST A YEAR GETTING TO KNOW EACH OTHER, BUILDING A RELATIONSHIP.

AND BEFORE WE WERE ABLE TO FIND SOMETHING THAT WE COULD SORT OF SINK OUR TEETH INTO TOGETHER IN REALLY ADDRESSING THE HOUSING SHORTAGE WAS THAT BECAUSE IT IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD NOT BE A PARTISAN ISSUE, RIGHT?

FUNDAMENTALLY, WE HAVE A SUPPLY PROBLEM AND WE HAVE DEMAND EITHER GOING UP IN SOME CITIES OR STAYING AT LEAST CONSTANT, AND SUPPLY GOING DOWN.

SO BY THE LAWS OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND THAT IS GOING TO INCREASE PRICES, NOT JUST FOR HOMES THAT YOU WANT TO PURCHASE, BUT ALSO FOR IN THE RENTAL MARKET.

AND SO WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO WITH THIS BILL IS REALLY ADDRESS SOME OF THE HOUSING SUPPLY SHORTAGES BY MAKING IT EASIER TO BUILD, TO CONSTRUCT NEW HOUSING.

WE SHOULD BE SEEING HOUSING CONSTRUCTION EVERYWHERE GIVEN THE SHORTAGE AND HOW MANY FAMILIES NEED PLACES TO BUY THEIR FIRST HOME, HOW MANY SENIORS NEED TO BE ABLE TO DOWNSIZE, HOW MANY PEOPLE GRADUATING COLLEGE NEED A PLACE TO RENT.

AND SO THAT IS WHAT WE REALLY ARE FOCUSED ON AND IN, NOT JUST IN A BIPARTISAN WAY, IN HOPEFULLY WHAT IS A NONPARTISAN WAY.

THOMPSON: AND REPRESENTATIVE MATTHEWS, YOU YOURSELF NOTICED AND POINTED OUT THAT MAYBE IN 2024 THERE WERE, WHAT?

100, ONLY 100 HOMES THAT WERE UNDER %300,000 IN WARREN COUNTY?

MATHEWS: THERE WERE 100 PARCELS THAT WERE UNDER $250,000 FOR THE WHOLE COUNTY WHEN THERE'S A QUARTER MILLION PEOPLE THERE.

AND IF YOU TOOK OUT JUST EMPTY LOTS, THERE WERE POINTS AND MONTHS WHERE THERE WERE ONLY A DOZEN HOMES FOR SALE.

AND IT IS VERY DIFFICULT FOR ANY, ANY SINGLE EARNER, EVEN YOUR AVERAGE INCOME EARNER IN OHIO, WHICH IS IN THE $60-80,000 RANGE, TO AFFORD ANYTHING THERE THAT IS A STARTER HOME.

I THINK MEDIAN INCOMES SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET A STARTER HOME.

THOMPSON: WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE PLAN THAT YOU HAVE THAT COULD LESSEN THE HOUSING CRISIS AND GIVE US THE HIGHLIGHTS OF YOUR INITIAL PLAN PROPOSED IN APRIL OF 2024.

WHAT WAS INCLUDED?

WHAT WAS IT?

ISAACSOHN: SO, THE THING WE WERE REALLY TRYING TO DO WAS INCENTIVIZE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, CITIES, TOWNSHIPS, MUNICIPALITIES TO UPDATE THEIR LAWS AND REGULATIONS TO MAKE IT EASIER TO BUILD.

BECAUSE ONE OF THE REASONS WHY OHIO HAS A HOUSING SUPPLY SHORTAGE, WHICH HAS LED TO NOT JUST A HOUSING CRISIS, BUT IT'S REALLY IT'S AN AFFORDABILITY CRISIS, IS BECAUSE IT IS HARD TO BUILD IN SOME COMMUNITIES.

THERE'S ONEROUS REGULATIONS.

IT COSTS A LOT OF MONEY.

IT TAKES A LOT OF TIME.

THERE'S HOOPS YOU HAVE TO JUMP THROUGH.

IT GETS APPROVED, AND IT GETS TAKEN DOWN.

AND SO WHAT WE ARE REALLY TRYING TO DO IS USE STATE DOLLARS TO INCENTIVIZE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TO MAKE IT EASIER TO BUILD.

MATHEWS: RIGHT.

AND WE WENT THROUGH THIS WAY, ONE, BECAUSE WE BELIEVE THERE'S COMMUNITIES THAT ARE LOOKING TO DO THE RIGHT THING, BUT ALSO RECOGNIZING THAT OHIO IS A LOCAL CONTROL STATE WHERE YOU HAVE CITIES, YOU HAVE TOWNSHIPS THAT HAVE POWERS THAT WE CANNOT TELL THEM WHAT TO DO, BUT WE CAN SHOW THEM WHAT PRO HOUSING POLICY LOOKS LIKE.

THAT SPEEDING UP THE PERMITTING PROCESS, CHANGING PARKING REQUIREMENTS, ALLOWING DIFFERENT TYPES OF HOMES SO THAT STARTER HOMES ARE NOT FUNCTIONALLY ZONED OUT, THAT DOWNSIZING IS NOT ELIMINATED BECAUSE OF THE ONLY HOMES THAT YOU ALLOW TO BUILD IN THERE.

BUT WE HAVE TO DO IT WITH A CARROT METHOD SO THAT COMMUNITIES THAT DO CARE ABOUT THEIR CHARACTER, THAT DO KNOW WHAT THEIR CITIZENS MAY WANT, RESPOND, WHILE WE ALSO RESPECT THE CONSTITUTION, THE TRADITIONS THAT OHIO HAS.

THOMPSON: REPRESENTATIVE ISAACSOHN, SO HOW WERE YOU GOING TO PAY FOR THIS?

AND WHAT WAS THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT YOU WERE HOPING TO HAVE IN A TRUST FUND?

ISAACSOHN: SO INITIALLY, WE HAD THE SUM, IN AN AMBITIOUS WAY, IN THE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS.

WHICH ULTIMATELY IS, I THINK, WHERE WE WILL NEED TO GET TO IF WE WANT TO TAKE THIS CRISIS SERIOUSLY.

THAT PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD TO LIVE, THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO RENT, THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO BUY A HOME, THEN WE HAVE TO HAVE POLICIES THAT MATCH THE LEVEL OF THAT CRISIS.

BUT STATE LAWS TAKE A LONG TIME TO GET ENACTED.

IT'S HARD TO DO THINGS IN GENERAL.

IT'S EVEN HARDER WHEN THEY'RE ACROSS THE AISLE AND BIPARTISAN, BUT THAT'S HOW YOU KNOW IT'S GOOD WORK.

AND SO WE WERE VERY EXCITED TO BE ABLE TO GET IN A SORT OF PILOT VERSION OF THIS FUND AT $25 MILLION IN THIS BUDGET.

BUT THE HOPE IS THAT ULTIMATELY WE'LL SEE SO MUCH DEMAND FROM ALL OVER THE STATE THAT MOVING FORWARD WILL BE ABLE TO INCREASE IT TO WHERE I THINK ULTIMATELY IT NEEDS TO GET TO.

THOMPSON: REPRESENTATIVE MATTHEWS LOOKED LIKE HE WANTED TO SAY SOMETHING.

MATHEWS: WE ARE LOOKING TO HAVE WHERE THESE FUNDS WILL COME FROM.

THE FIRST WAS GOING TO BE LEFTOVER FUNDS.

OHIO IS REQUIRED TO HAVE A BALANCED BUDGET, CONSTITUTIONALLY REQUIRED TO HAVE A BALANCED BUDGET, AND WE HAD SOME FUNDS LEFT OVER AT THE END OF THE LAST GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

THIS TIME WE HAD SPECIFIC FUNDS WITH AN ASK AND DO WANT TO HIGHLIGHT THE WORK.

THIS WASN'T ONLY BIPARTISAN, BUT BICAMERAL.

SENATOR REYNOLDS, OVER IN THE SENATE, DID A LOT OF GOOD WORK TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS GOT DONE IN THE BUDGET.

THOMPSON: SO PARTS OF IT ARE INCLUDED IN THE BUDGET.

WHAT PARTS MADE IT IN AND WHAT'S THE TIMETABLE TO BUILD MORE HOUSING?

ISAACSOHN: SO WE INITIALLY STRUCTURED THIS, IN OUR BILL, WHERE WE WERE REALLY LISTING OUT, HERE ARE THE VARIOUS THINGS THAT YOU CAN DO AS A MUNICIPALITY TO MAKE PRO HOUSING POLICY.

AND THERE WAS A MENU OF OPTIONS THAT LOCAL GOVERNMENTS COULD CHOOSE FROM FOR WHATEVER FIT THEM THE BEST, WHETHER IT'S LOT SIZES OR SINGLE OR DUPLEX FAMILY ZONING, OR YOU KNOW, HOW WIDE THE STREET HAS TO BE IN THE DEVELOPMENT, WHATEVER IT WAS, WE LISTED THOSE IN THE LAW.

WHAT ENDED UP GOING INTO THE BUDGET WAS PUTTING A LOT OF THAT SORT OF MORE SPECIFIC POLICY WORK ONTO THE DEPARTMENT OF DEVELOPMENT FOR THEM TO DETERMINE WHEN PEOPLE SUBMIT FOR THESE GRANTS.

THE DEPARTMENT OF DEVELOPMENT, THEN, IS DEVELOPING THE METRICS OF WHAT CONSTITUTES PRO HOUSING POLICIES AS THEY'RE SCORING THE GRANT SUBMISSION.

SO IT WAS REALLY JUST NOW IT'S SHIFTED ONTO THE DEPARTMENT VERSUS WE WERE A LITTLE MORE PRESCRIPTIVE IN THE ORIGINAL BILL.

MATHEWS: AND THEN WE ALSO ARE GRATEFUL FOR THE WORK.

WHILE WE HAD THESE DISCUSSIONS, ONE THING THAT GOT ADDED TO THE SENATE AMENDMENT AND THEN THE FINAL BUDGET THAT WAS NOT IN OUR ORIGINAL BILL WAS MAKING SURE THAT YOU ACTUALLY START A DEVELOPMENT PROJECT SO THAT YOU BUILD HOMES IF YOU'RE GOING TO GET THE FUNDING.

WHICH I THINK IS GREAT, ESPECIALLY SINCE SOME OF OUR REQUIREMENTS ARE GOOD PRO HOUSING POLICIES, LIKE MAKING WATER SEWER HOOKUP CHEAPER, SPEEDING UP PERMITTING, DOING HOUSING PLANS, ALL OF THOSE THAT YOU COULD DO.

BUT IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BREAK GROUND AND BUILD HOMES, YOU'RE NOT MEETING THE INTENT OF THE LEGISLATION.

SO WE'RE GRATEFUL THAT THIS IS THE WAY WE GOT IT DONE IN THE BUDGET.

THOMPSON: SO IF I'M A COMMUNITY AND I WANT TO TAP INTO SOME OF THIS MONEY THEN, AS YOU'RE REFERENCING, THERE ARE A LIST OF REQUIREMENTS.

AND MAYBE, REPRESENTATIVE ISAACSOHN, WHAT ARE SOME OF THOSE?

ISAACSOHN: SO IT DEPENDS THE COMMUNITY, BUT REALLY IT'S LOOKING AT ASKING THE QUESTION, WHAT WOULD IT MAKE IT EASIER TO BUILD HOUSING UNITS IN OUR COMMUNITY?

AND IN SOME PLACES, THAT'S GOING TO MEAN SPEEDING UP THE PERMITTING PROCESS.

IN SOME PLACES IT'S GOING TO MEAN IF WE'VE ALREADY APPROVED A CERTAIN TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT, WE SHOULDN'T MAKE THE EXACT SAME TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT GO THROUGH THE EXACT SAME PROCESS AGAIN, A FASTER APPROVAL PROCESS.

IN SOME PLACES, IT MIGHT BE MAKING WATER AND SEWER HOOKUPS LESS, OR REDUCING THE AMOUNT OF PARKING THAT'S REQUIRED FOR THAT BUILDING.

EVERY COMMUNITY IS GOING TO BE A LITTLE DIFFERENT, BUT IT'S ASKING THE QUESTION, HOW CAN WE MAKE IT SO THAT IT'S EASIER AND FASTER AND ULTIMATELY LESS EXPENSIVE TO BUILD MORE HOUSING HERE FOR PEOPLE TO LIVE IN?

THOMPSON: THERE ARE A FEW OTHER STATE PROGRAMS, LIKE THE OHIO HOUSING TRUST FUND, LIHTC, AND DEVELOPMENT DISTRICTS.

I WONDER HOW THOSE ARE WORKING AND CAN THEY WORK KIND OF IN COLLABORATION WITH WHAT YOU'RE DOING?

ISAACSOHN: THE CRISIS IS SO VAST.

THERE IS SO MUCH WORK FOR US TO DO IN THE HOUSING SPACE.

REPRESENTATIVE MATTHEWS NOTED THIS.

YOU KNOW, WE LIKE TO SAY THERE'S TEN YEARS OF BIPARTISAN AGREEMENT BEFORE WE EVER HAVE TO DISAGREE ON CERTAIN THINGS, BECAUSE THERE'S SO MUCH WORK TO DO.

AND ALL OF THOSE PROGRAMS ARE GREAT.

I WOULD LOVE TO EXPAND A LOT OF THEM, AND THEY GET AT DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF THIS, RIGHT?

THERE'S A LOT OF THIS IS SUPPLY, BUT THAT'S NOT THE ONLY WAY TO GET AT THE HOUSING CRISIS.

WE ALSO NEED TO DEAL WITH THE ROLE THAT PRIVATE EQUITY PLAYS IN A LOT OF OUR COMMUNITIES, AND BUYING UP HOMES THAT COULD BE FIRST HOMES FOR PEOPLE TO BUY.

AND NOW THEY'RE RENTAL UNITS WITH A LANDLORD WHO YOU KNOW IS OUT OF STATE AND DOESN'T PICK UP THE PHONE.

SO THERE'S OTHER LEVERS THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT.

HOW DO WE LOOK AT THE LOWEST INCOME HOUSING/ THAT'S WHERE THE LOW INCOME HOUSING TAX CREDIT IS SO CRITICAL.

THAT'S A DIFFERENT TYPE OF INTERVENTION.

SO IT'S GOING TO TAKE EVERYTHING WE'RE DOING, PLUS A WHOLE LOT MORE FOR US TO REALLY BRING COSTS DOWN FOR PEOPLE AND EXPAND ACCESS TO HOME OWNERSHIP AND RENT.

THOMPSON: REPRESENTATIVE MATTHEWS.

MATHEWS: I ECHO EVERYTHING HE SAID, AS WELL AS THIS IS SUCH A LARGE PROBLEM.

IT'S NOT A PARTISAN ISSUE.

IT'S NOT A BIPARTISAN ISSUE.

IT'S A GENERATIONAL ISSUE.

AND WE ARE SOME OF THE YOUNGER MEMBERS HERE.

I THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE SOMETHING WE ARE GOING TO BE WORKING ON FOR A LONG TIME, BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE DIGGING OUT OF THIS HOLE TO START BUILDING THESE HOMES.

AND WE WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE A COMMITMENT TO THE AMERICAN DREAM.

AND IF THEY BELIEVE THAT THEY'RE NEVER GOING TO OWN A HOME.

RIGHT NOW, THE AVERAGE AGE OF A FIRST TIME HOME BUYER IS OLDER THAN I AM, IT IS 38 YEARS OLD.

PEOPLE DON'T FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE A PIECE OF THE AMERICAN DREAM IF THEY CAN'T HAVE A PLACE TO GO HOME TO.

AND WHETHER THAT'S A WORKFORCE ISSUE THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE WORKERS, IF THEY DON'T HAVE A PLACE WHERE THEY CAN REST THEIR HEAD.

YOU DO NOT HAVE LITTLE LEAGUE COACHES IF PEOPLE DON'T HAVE NEIGHBORS AND ROOTS AND CONNECTIONS.

AND WE WANT TO HAVE AN OHIO WHERE PEOPLE CAN COME AND ACTUALLY LIVE HERE.

AND BY GETTING REGULATIONS OUT OF THE WAY, INCENTIVIZING THEM TO DO THAT, WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO, BUT THIS IS A GOOD FIRST STEP.

THOMPSON: SO LET'S DRILL DOWN ON YOUR PLAN THAT HAS BEEN PUT IN THE BUDGET.

PEOPLE MIGHT COMPLAIN LIKE EVERYTHING TAKES TOO LONG.

SO LIKE WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW?

LIKE, YOU KNOW, UM, YOU KNOW, ARE COMMUNITIES IS ALREADY TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THIS?

WHAT'S GOING ON?

ISAACSOHN: THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF TRYING TO WORK AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE TO GET THIS MONEY OUT INTO THESE COMMUNITIES AND START THIS PROCESS.

SO LAST I HEARD FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF DEVELOPMENT, THEY WERE HOPING TO HAVE THE GRANT PROCESS ROLLING BY THE END OF THE YEAR.

AND SO THAT'S FOR THIS YEAR'S ALLOCATION AND THEN THERE'S AN ALLOCATION NEXT YEAR.

SO THE HOPE IS THAT THIS HAPPENS PRETTY QUICKLY, BECAUSE IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO PROVE THAT JUST BECAUSE IT'S A GOVERNMENT PROGRAM DOESN'T MEAN IT HAS TO GO SLOWLY, RIGHT?

WE CAN HAVE A GOVERNMENT THAT RUNS EFFICIENTLY AND EFFECTIVELY.

MATHEWS: THROUGH THE GRANT GETTING UP AND RUNNING WE'LL ALSO HAVE RULES GOING THROUGH OUR JOINT COMMITTEE ON AGENCY RULE REVIEW.

THAT IS MOVING FORWARD AS WELL AND SCHEDULED TO BE UP.

AND WE'VE ALREADY HAD DIFFERENT CITIES AROUND SOUTHWEST OHIO REACH OUT TO US.

I'VE HAD REPRESENTATIVES FROM XENIA THAT HAVE REACHED OUT.

I KNOW LEBANON'S REACHED OUT.

I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE IN YOUR WAY HAS.

I'M SURE THEY HAVE.

ISAACSOHN: I'M MEETING WITH THE CITY OF CINCINNATI TODAY ABOUT THIS.

MATHEWS: AND SO THEY WE HAVE CITIES, MUNICIPALITIES THAT ARE READY TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS AND HIT THE GROUND RUNNING ONCE WE PROVIDE IT IN FRONT OF THEM.

THOMPSON: WELL, THANK YOU, REPRESENTATIVE ISAACSOHN AND REPRESENTATIVE MATTHEWS FOR BEING ON BRICK BY BRICK.

ISAACSOHN: THANK YOU SO MUCH.

MATHEWS: THANK YOU.

THOMPSON: OKAY, WE'RE ALL BACK TOGETHER AGAIN.

IT'S TIME TO TALK TAKEAWAYS.

FROM LAND TRUSTS TO THE STATE HOUSE, OUR SOLUTIONS WERE A BIT FOR THE PEOPLE AND BY THE PEOPLE THIS WEEK.

EMIKO, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

MOORE: WELL, FOR ME IT WAS REALLY REFRESHING TO SEE TWO POLITICIANS RISE ABOVE PARTISAN POLITICS TO REALLY START TACKLING THIS AFFORDABILITY CRISIS.

I LIKED IT WHEN REPRESENTATIVE ISAACSOHN SAID WE NEED TO PUT PEOPLE FIRST OVER POLITICS.

AND HE AND THE OTHER REPRESENTATIVE, MATTHEWS, THEY GOT TO KNOW EACH OTHER OVER THE COURSE OF THE YEAR BEFORE THEY EVEN STARTED WORKING ON TACKLING THIS ISSUE.

LAGUERRE: I DO HAVE TO CUT IN REAL QUICK AND SAY I DO THINK IT'S REALLY TELLING OF THE TIMES THAT WE'RE IN, THAT WE'RE APPLAUDING TWO STATE LAWMAKERS FOR HAVING A CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT CAN HELP OUT THEIR CONSTITUENTS.

YOU KNOW, YOU WOULD HOPE THAT'S A NORMAL EVERYDAY THING, BUT UNFORTUNATELY, IT ISN'T.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I'M HOPEFUL THAT MAYBE IT MIGHT BE BECAUSE BOTH STATE REPS SAID THAT THEY CAN GO THROUGH TEN YEARS OF AGREEMENTS IN REGARDS TO HOUSING BEFORE THEY GET TO ONE DISAGREEMENT.

SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S PROMISING.

MOORE: AND IT SHOWS YOU HOW MASSIVE THIS ISSUE IS.

IT'S REALLY STUNNING TO ME TO THINK THAT THE AVERAGE AGE FOR THE FIRST TIME HOME BUYER IN 2025, I THINK IT'S THE OLDEST AGE, IS 38 YEARS OLD.

THAT'S JUST STUNNING TO ME.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE AVERAGE AGE FOR THE FIRST TIME HOME BUYER WAS IN 1960?

THOMPSON: I'M THINKING IT WAS A LOT YOUNGER, LIKE 23?

LAGUERRE: 25 MAYBE?

MOORE: YOU GUYS ARE -- THAT'S PRETTY GOOD.

IT WAS 23-24.

SO THINK OF THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT AND 38.

THAT'S LIKE A WHOLE GENERATION.

THOMPSON: AND MORE AND MORE STATES ARE SEEING THESE PRO-HOUSING POLICIES AS VERY NECESSARY.

THE TWO LAWMAKERS THAT WE INTERVIEWED FOR THIS EPISODE, THEY GOT SOME OF THEIR IDEAS FOR OHIO'S PRO HOUSING POLICY FROM UTAH.

IN FACT, THE LINCOLN INSTITUTE OF LAND POLICY DID A STUDY AND FOUND THAT QUITE A FEW STATES, 20 OF THEM, IN FACT, HAVE PASSED LAWS SUCH AS THIS.

JUST TO GIVE YOU A FEW EXAMPLES: FLORIDA, COLORADO AND MONTANA, A MIX OF RED, BLUE AND PURPLE STATES.

LAGUERRE: THAT'S GOOD TO HEAR AND HOPEFULLY THAT TREND CONTINUES.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I WANTED TO POINT OUT SOMETHING.

STATE REP DANI ISAACSOHN AND EMILY SIEBEL FROM YELLOW SPRINGS, THEY KIND OF POINTED TO LOCAL COMMON GROUND.

STATE REP DANI ISAACSOHN SAID THAT WE NEED TO GET BACK TO THE BASICS, YOU KNOW, ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE TRULY CARE ABOUT, WHETHER IT'S RAISING A FAMILY, GROWING OLD AND BEING ABLE TO GROW OLD IN YOUR COMMUNITY, STAYING SAFE AND SECURE.

AND I THINK YOU GET THERE WITH HYPER LOCAL DECISION MAKING.

THIS IS A TERM THAT EMILY SIEBEL USED WITH ME TO PRETTY MUCH STRESS THAT RESIDENTS ARE THE EXPERTS OF THEIR OWN EXPERIENCE.

AND, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WERE TO KEEP THIS LOCAL EXPERIENCE IN MIND WHEN MAKING DECISIONS, I THINK THAT'S HOW YOU GET BACK TO THE BASICS.

THOMPSON: CONTINUING TO FIND COMMON GROUND AND LOOK FOR OTHER EXAMPLES.

THANKS, GUYS.

MOORE: THANK YOU.

THOMPSON: THAT'S OUR SHOW.

IF YOU ENJOYED LEARNING ABOUT LAND TRUSTS OR THE LATEST STATE EFFORT AROUND HOUSING, BE SURE TO SHARE THE SHOW WITH YOUR FRIENDS OR NEIGHBORS, IT CAN BE A GOOD CONVERSATION STARTER.

UNTIL NEXT TIME FOR EMIKO MOORE AND HERNZ LAGUERRE, JR., I'M ANNE THOMPSON.

WE'LL BE BACK SOON WITH MORE SOLUTIONS.

TAKE CARE.