>> Major funding is provided by RWJ Barnabas health.

Let's be healthy together.

Reporting to leaders in all counties of the guard state since 1954.

And by New Jersey playbook a topical newsletter on Garden State politics online at Politico.com.

♪ >> The GWB lane closures 10 years later.

A Bridgegate too far for Chris Christie?

It's reporters Roundtable I'm David Cruz glad to be back with you hope you all had a great summer.

Our panel today still glowing from their summer vacations.

Jesse Gomez is a reporter with chalk beat Newark.

Matt Arco the politics reporter for nj.com and author of The what makes Christie Run newsletter.

And Charlie style columnist for the record and northjersey.com.

We're going to hear from them in just a few minutes but we begin today with the man who was front center in the aftermath of the lane closures at the gwb 10 years ago.

He co-chaired The Joint Committee that investigated the Scandal he was in the assembly then he's with us now pleasure to welcome John wisneski to Round Table assemblyman how you doing good to see you man David good to be with you again how are you very well thank you so 2013 your committee was already investigating stuff at the Port Authority and conveniently enough had subpoena power.

without that would a lot of this stuff had come out.

>> Probably not I mean there was a Confluence of circumstances number one that speaker Oliver had given us subpoena Authority on the transportation committee to be investigating the Port Authority the total increases and they were slow rolling their response frankly if they had not slow rolled their response the investigation might have concluded and there may not have been subpoena power.

>> You told me uh this week that bill Baroni's uh testimony that this was a traffic study was so over their top inflammatory and aggressive that it got your Spidey senses tingling why .

>> well you know when Bill Baroni came in with his charts and his graphs and his large photographs initially it seemed like just an explanation that you'd normally hear in any legislative hearing somebody coming in and offering the spin of the administration but when members started asking direct questions for instance Vice chair stender at the time had asked questions about the lane closures he came back and he had the specific numbers of the Easy Pass transponders in her district and challenged her how can you allow your constituents to sit in traffic while the people of Fort Lee get a special deal.

he repeated that for just about every Democratic member and to come prepared with that type of attack material really alerted me that there was more to this than met the eye at that point.

>> The time for some traffic problems in Fort Lee email seemed to start a Feeding Frenzy I mean I remember for a while there it was Bridge gate every day Bridget Kelly and Bill Baroni took the biggest hit Kelly more so in my opinion but David weilstein is the one who pleaded and and flipped on them what kind of he kind of got off easy no.

>> Well it seems that way certainly he made a deal early he uh gave us documents gave the committee documents that other individuals bill steppian for instance went to court and prevented the committee subpoena from being enforced and so there's always been the question in my mind why did he roll why did he fold so early provide us that email that said time for traffic problems because imagine a world today in which that email never became available nobody ever thought this whole history would be very different.

>> Let's hear from one of your colleagues at the time who said this week that this whole thing was a lot of to coin a bidenism Malarkey here's Christie friend John bramnik from this week well it wasn't good that's for sure you know when the Supreme Court decides 9-0 at the end that it's it's not a criminal case it kind of shows a lot of energy went into a prosecution that uh that had no basis in fact so I think it was a tough time for Chris Christie and I got to tell you I was right in that Administration there's no way he planned organized or told anybody to do that because that's not how it worked back in those days uh he would never as a former prosecutor he would never authorize that.

>> Charlie this seems like a good spot for your question Charlie Style.

>> I think that response by the way by Senator bramnick kind of conveniently omits some of the Supreme Court opinions it's said that you know some really bad things did happen here fraud so some nefarious things happen so I you know for what it's worth but my question is I and just in general I mean what what if what's the big takeaway what have we learned I mean the convictions as he's alluded to did get overturned what substantive change has come from all this drama Scandal convictions national attention at the end of the day what's different about the way we govern ourselves here and Port Authority for that matter.

>> I think unfortunately there's not a lot that's different the bridge gate investigation became the Joint Committee after the turn of the Year and that committee froze in place when the indictments of Baroni and Kelly came out and there was never really a substantive conclusion but in my mind what the committee was looking for was what are the legislative fixes what what are the things that can be done to prevent this kind of abuse of power.

Now some of the internal changes that the Port Authority has made at least currently seem to lessen that possibility but you and I both know it's only a matter of who the governor is on each state and how much of a watchful eye they're keeping on that agency to prevent similar misdeeds from happening in the future.

>> On Christie now Chris Christie the governor at the time was there any evidence in the mountains of emails and so on um that showed that he knew more than he led on and what do you think he knew.

>> Well there was no direct link there was no email from Chris Christie to you know Bill burrani or anybody saying do this but when you know if you know the culture of the governor's office in New Jersey if you know the importance and the Loyalty that's placed on those people in that inner circle around the governor which included Bridget Kelly which included Bill Baroni up at the Port Authority you know that those are not people who take flyers who freelance who concoct schemes that hope the big guy is going to like they are they are foot soldiers that have earned that position by identifying themselves as people who play by the book that the current Administration has so it's hard for me to imagine a world in which somebody in that inner circle is doing something that the governor hasn't at least uh in some way turned a blind eye to told somebody hey I don't care what happens there let them do whatever they want so in that respect he Bears responsibility it happened with his team his inner circle and he can deny all he wants but when you have a governor who has contemporaneously deleted text messages with one of his top aides that coincided with the transportation committee's hearing from Pat Foy and others you know that they were trying to conceal information that they had shared on that day.

>> Yeah one of the ironies I always find about this is that Senator Kevin O'Toole who wrote an op-ed saying that this was in fact a traffic study he is now the chairman of the Port Authority board which is a little bit of a mind blower.

do you think that this is fair game for voters as Christie tries again to run for president.

>> In my experience holding office for 22 years anything you've done in your public life as an office holder is fair game and and there are so many unanswered questions because while the story that has become the coin of the realm that this was a political Caper gone awry trying to secure the coveted endorsement of Mark Stockbridge Mayor Fort Lee just doesn't wash. >> John wisneski hard to believe it's been a decade uh good to see you man thanks for coming on with us.

panel Jesse Matt Charles welcome to you all uh let's start with Bridgegate the events took place this week 10 years ago uh let's start off with uh Chris Christie with the denial heard round the world.

>> Actions have consequences and I'm living up to that right now and I'll say one last thing just so we're really clear I had no knowledge for involvement in this issue in its planning or its execution and I am stunned by the abject stupidity that was shown here regardless of what the facts ultimately uncover this was handled in a callous and in different way and it is not the way this Administration has conducted itself over the last four years and not the way it will conduct itself over the next four.

>> Charlie uh your thoughts on this I remember seeing you a lot during this period.

>> I for it took me weeks to get over the the sense of disbelief and I have to be honest with you when this story was bubbling in the fall I thought it was I just didn't it just seemed too bizarre uh to be real and then when it became real it just seemed too bizarre to be real.

I you know I I think that it really you know this issue this whole narrative that was wasniewski the senator of former assemblyman Wisniewski sort of is now kind of disputing The Narrative of payback I mean there was still a lot of evidence that that was a motivation.

It really I think the the thing I've taken away from it is that you know payback and retaliation was part of the fabric of the Christian Administration I think the real Capital the real crime here was you just don't bring in ordinary people into the process into the payback scheme and that's really what uh how this happened but I still to this day it just can't believe to me it was like one of those cheap Harlequin or cheap Dime Store novels that you read on the beach and as a kid.

Pulp Fiction's a word I'm thinking look you thank you.

>> what's your answer to the question did Christy know.

>> I think that that's a legitimate analysis you hear that I mean it would be hard to believe that he he didn't know given uh the tight Reign and the top down style of that that uh that operation and I think also there was a lot of evidence that came out during the investigations that showed that he was aware that this was a problem in late December of 2013 before he came out public and in that famous press conference he showed and said that this is the first I had the first I learned of it was when I read an email that famous email in Bourbon record.

>> Matt you were at politicker NJ at the time uh do you remember when you thought to yourself wow this story might have legs.

>> Yeah particularly when uh the the whole nation descended on Trenton and uh it became a national story but you know just one thing that kind of I was thinking about this this morning I don't want this to get lost in all this you know I covered the the events I covered the trial you know the the idea from the assemblyman that former assemblyman that you know something else nefarious was going on I mean I was at the trial when they did their best to to try Chris Christie even though he wasn't on the trial.

Yes it is true we do know now that uh in less two at least two of Christie's very close confidants just perjured themselves on the stand Christy did know about this uh before he he says that you know when he said publicly when he officially found out but this whole idea now that I even see the the admitted Mastermind trolling the Governor from time to time on Twitter I mean if he had something to say if he had something done to Christy uh of substance it would have come enough then um during the trial when Paul Fishman gave him a pretty good deal and just really quick and because Charlie touched on this you know the Supreme Court did not say that this wasn't a very egregious act the Supreme Court was ruling on something else about the the the legitimacy of a federal crime if any one of these three people were tried on the state level for official misconduct if probably I'm not a lawyer but would have been a slam dunk case so that's some some revisionist history there.

>> Speaking of Chris Christie um you are in Trenton today but generally uh lately you've been on the road with Chris Christie as the author of what makes Chris Christie run a weekly or twice a week newsletter uh tell me about that and how do you fill that what do you fill that with.

>> Twice a week it's uh it's ambitious but it's keeping me on my toes and it's good to be back in New Hampshire again after eight years to see what folks are talking about it's it's been interesting to see the governor back on the trail how his message has been different this time around uh versus eight years ago with the the very noticeable of him very you know Christy you know uh going after Trump in a very Chris Christie way that's something that didn't happen eight years ago uh you know but it's been a little refreshing his it's right now still a very long shot campaign um and I think that that can be said for just about anybody in the uh GOP Primary who is not named Donald Trump according to the polls but he thinks that he has a path uh it's all hinges once again on New Hampshire and you know thank God it's still uh a warm up there it's not the winter yet so you know we're going to enjoy it it's uh we're we're gonna be on the road.

>> Any signs that he's getting gaining any traction in New Hampshire.

>> Yeah it's very interesting because in State polling which is the only thing that matters right now not National polling uh he is gaining traction whether that sticks or not I don't know uh what do we know from polling after all these years of just it being incorrect from the get-go um so in polling yes in what I'm seeing on the ground and the level of folks that come to his town hall it's nothing to write home about at at the moment.

I've also been and I'll explore this a little bit more in the newsletter uh it's a little curious some of the folks that are showing up at the town halls I mean these are you know Democratic Christy curious potential voters if they're unaffiliated they can vote in a primary but they're not going to sway an election so it's it will be interesting to see how this goes over time uh you know the types of folks that show up I mean Democrats showing up to his town hall because they want to see him is not going to do anything for Chris Christie but he is going up in the State polling which says which is a positive indicator for his campaign >> Christy curious all right we welcome Jesse Gomez of chalk beat Newark making her Roundtable debut hola Jesse uh tell folks about it tell folks about uh chalk beat and what you do there.

>> Chalk beat uh we cover Newark Public Schools on a daily basis um we very much are at board meetings we talk to community members um so our organization is very much grassroot and so we really embed ourselves in Newark and we try to find the issues and inequities in schools and what's affecting students the most and this year Newark Public Schools just started a school earlier this month and there's lots of reports so far.

>> Well it's great to have you with us uh that's a great beat by so across the state we've been hearing uh debates about parental notification and curriculum and all kind of stuff like that in a very abstract way but in your beat the largest school system in the state you don't hear much debate about that right what are some of the big concerns there.

>> I think you know it's important to note that the perception of public schools really differs uh depending on where you live and also your viewpoints so like I said earlier uh this school year art is already underway uh more than 38 000 public school students made their way back to class um there's a lot of smiles folks were excited but there's also a lot of issues that the school district and more notably superintendent Roger Leone has to tackle specifically you know improving schools we have schools that you know are more than 90 years old and a lot of them don't have ACS a lot their conditions are are not up to date so you know there's a lot to be dealt with on that front and also there's a lot to be dealt with when it comes to refining reading skills and literacy skills in Spring 2022 we saw a dramatic drop in math and the state math and reading scores and so this year there's a big focus on tutoring there's a big focus on getting kids you know back up to speed and helping them post pandemic because as we do know the pandemic did destroy student learning and it caused a number of issues from social problems and mental health issues and we'll get into those a little later but again there's a lot that Newark Public Schools has to tackle this year.

>> All right Charlie you had a piece this week on the Department of Justice report on conditions at the veteran homes uh in Paramus and Menlo Park you asked if we had hearings on bridge gate uh why not do the same with veterans homes.

>> I think it was I mean Bridgegate at the end of the day uh nobody died there was one case where in Fort Lee where that may have been tied to the Lane closings it was never confirmed but we do know up to almost 200 people died in those two homes or all three homes but the two homes most of them occurred in Menlo Park Paramus and nobody died in Bridgegate a lot of Sturm and Drang a lot of drama and understandably so with subpoena power here we have crickets we have a lot of people you know sending out press releases showing you know the the their hearts are bleeding for the veterans but really taking no action not doing much of anything promising more legislation legislation which by the way the doj kind of politely dismissed this cosmetic in the past and what we have is essentially A system that sort of reverted to form the problems that emerged in the first waves of covid persist and it that alone should really be that alone should be the the impetus for hearings but all we got is a lot of people just ducking under rocks.

>> Matt uh do you think this is an issue that's going to come down hard on Democrats who've had a terrible summer.

>> No uh because for for not to dismiss the merits of uh an investigation into this it's that you know Phil Murphy's not going to be on the ticket when uh the entire legislature is in in November but at the end of the day if this is something that is investigated with subpoena power one can imagine that it would only make the person at the top potentially not look good and again even though he's not on the ticket he's a member of the democratic party he's the head of the democratic party of the state and for reasons you know beyond this I think Democrats in the legislature are nervous going into this next election and is it cynical to you know to put politics before something that literally was a matter of life and death and and maybe it's something that that the state as a whole can learn from in the future maybe probably yes but I don't see it happening at all.

>> Time for our only in Jersey moments headlines and notes that are quintessentially Jersey uh Charlie you got one for us.

>> I thought there was a a really interesting report by the center of American women in politics at a Rutgers University it found that white males represent 27 percent of the New Jersey population but dominate by more than 50 percent all the elected office positions in New Jersey from legislature on down to the local level and what's real I find that real interesting this it sort of signals that this isn't some sort of generational thing that's we're starting to see that fading away of white male dominance what it identifies is that on the pipeline at the bottom end of the of the political food chain white men still dominate so that when they ascend they will still dominate so it just I think it was a real excellent only it's only a New Jersey snapshot because it comes out of Rutgers but I feel it's probably uh transcends New Jersey and it's uh pretty much elsewhere in National politics.

>> Matt you got a quick one for us running out of time here.

>> Yeah hat tip to Terence McDonald for pointing this one out to me but uh the brother of the Patterson city councilman uh had 2020 election fraud charges against him just by the Attorney General's office just dropped out of nowhere and And the reporter at the Bergen Record was able to discern this because they ran into this man while he was facing unrelated charges in court and that's when he told the reporter that these charges these previous charges on Election fraud were dropped and um you know I don't know where else you could find that.

>> Jersey uh Patterson uh mine comes from Newark where NJ Advanced media announced this week that it will no longer publish a Saturday edition of The Star Ledger the 190 year old newspapers owners say nobody's buying Ink based newspapers anymore and it costs too much to put one out and distributing distribute it they say the changes will not result in any layoffs but you're just gonna have to fight find some other place to clip your Saturday coupons and that's Roundtable for this week Jesse Matt Charlie good to see you all uh you can follow the show on X or Twitter at Roundtable NJ and get more exclusive content including full episodes and more when you scan the QR code on your screen.

I'm David Cruz from all the crew here at Gateway Center in downtown Newark thanks for watching we'll see you next week.

>> major funding for reporters Roundtable with David Cruz is provided by RWJ Barnabas Health let's be healthy together.

promotional support provided by New Jersey business magazine the magazine of the New Jersey business and industry Association reporting to executive and legislative leaders in all 21 counties of the Garden State since 1954 and by politico's New Jersey Playbook a topical newsletter on Garden State politics online at politico.com.

♪