AMNA NAWAZ: It's been quite a week.

President Biden delivered an ultimatum to our# longtime ally Israel.

And, here at.. of American adults told us they are prepared# to accept violence in our political system.

To discuss all that and more, we# turn now to the analysis of Brooks## and Capehart.

That's New York# Times columnist David Brooks,## and Jonathan Capehart, associate# editor for The Washington Post.

Great to see you both, as always.

I want to pick up where Geoff's interview# with Senator Coons there left off.

Jonathan, you just heard the senator saying that# he is open to conditioning aid to Israel in --## under those conditions as he laid them out.

This# is a close adviser of President Biden saying this,## joining the ranks of some other lawmakers who# have been saying this for a while, we should say.

But after the killing of those seven aid workers,## does this feel like a tipping point# when it comes to President Biden's## relationship with leaders in Israel?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Yes, I think it is.

We have seen this coming.

How many weeks have# we sat here on a Friday night talking about how,## while the relationship between# the two nations is firm and solid,## the relationship between the two leaders of# those nations, there's daylight coming in there?

And the president and the administration would# say, don't do this, Prime Minister Netanyahu,## and Prime Minister Netanyahu# would basically say, hold my beer.

But the killing of those seven aid# workers from World Central Kitchen,## founded by chef Jose Andres, who is someone# that the president knows -- when the president## went to Ukraine, he went to a World# Central Kitchen meal station during## that trip, owner of restaurants where the# president goes to have dinner sometimes.

AMNA NAWAZ: He's a known# quantity to the president.

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Right, right, right.

So this# is s.. struck him, I think, personally in ways# that other mistakes maybe have not.

But there needed to be a turning point.# There needed to have something happen to## get the president and the administration to be# a little more -- a lot more forceful and to get## the attention of the prime minister, which I think# the president got after that phone call yesterday.

AMNA NAWAZ: David, how do you look# at this?

Do you see this as a tipping## point in the same way?

And do you see U.S.# lawmakers actually moving to condition aid?

DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I don't really think# it's a tipping point.

I think that,## as Chris Coons said, it's been a gradual thing.

I have been talking to experts on this who served# in Republican administrations and .. administrations.

And there's a rough consensus,# which is that Israel has to finish the job on## Hamas.

It would be an absolute disaster for the# region, for U.S. interests if Hamas was somehow## to emerge as an intact political and military# force.

It would destabilize the region forever.

And so that has to happen.

At the same time,# there seems to be a consensus that Israel has## to do a vastly better job at protecting the aid# convoys, at letting the aid in, and particularly,## as Coons said, and if they're going to take --# invade Rafah, which they sort of have to do, they## have to get the million people out of there, and# they have to provide free passage to the north.

And we have to do everything we can to pressure# Israel, and I think some sort of conditions on## aid are -- if Israel's not going to provide the# million to leave and into safe zones in the north,## then we should do what we can to pressure them# to do that, because it would be against Israel's## self-interest to do that, and it would# certainly be against America's interest.

I was cheered by the readout on the# Biden-Netanyahu call.

I had feared## that Netanyahu would want to run for# reelection as running against the U.S.,## say, I'm the guy who can protect you from# the pressure from those craven Americans.

But he did not in the call, apparently.

He# accepted the conditions that President Biden## laid before him.

He's already# complied with a few of them,## and he's promised to apply for more.# And so this pressure may be working,## which Biden wants, to pressure Netanyahu without# cutting them off or putting on conditions.

AMNA NAWAZ: David, there's the issue of# protecting the aid workers, as you mentioned.

But does this also call into question just## how discerning Israel has been in# carrying out its strikes so far?

DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I think there are# two things to be said, contradictory.

The first is, this is a war unlike any other.# Sometimes, people compare this to our -- the## U.S.-Iraqi assault on Mosul and other cities.# But I have never heard of another war where the## enemy is in 500 miles of tunnels underground# and the enemy's chief strategy is to generate## as many civilian deaths as they can to get# world pressure to force Israel to desist.

So this is just a much harder deal.

Having# said that, I have been covering the Middle## East for a little while, and one# has certainly discerned a growing## callousness toward Palestinian# lives in the Israeli population.

I'm not sure how split Netanyahu is from a lot of# the people within Israel itself.

They're -- they## think, why should we risk Israeli soldiers for# -- to protect people who want to kill us?

But it## has to be explained to them that this is in your# own self-interest.

It's just -- a humanitarian## disaster, aside from being a moral atrocity, is in# Israel's self-interest to present -- to protect.

So I think there's both just the horrific# conditions that Israel is fighting under,## but also overaggressive, as we heard# from the expert early in the program,## and a growing callousness# toward Palestinian suffering.

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Yes, and I think the growing# callousness, I think, is what's really sort of## bothering me and why I think that the World# Central Kitchen deaths is a turning point.

The thing that's -- the thing that# bugs me is, for years, I have known,## we all know Israel -- Israel Defense# Forces are among the most sophisticated## armed forces in the world.

And yet,# time and time again since October 7,## we have seen these very sophisticated armed# forces make mistake after mistake after mistake.

And I know mistakes happen in war.

But how# does a mistake like the one that happened## to World Central Kitchen happen when World Central# Kitchen was working in coordination with the army,## letting them know where they were at# all times?

How do you explain that?

And so that's why I think that -- you# add that to the president's relationship,## that phone call with the prime minister# yesterday, and the changes that have been## made, the changes have to keep going,# because, if he does indeed, Netanyahu,## go into Rafah without a plan for what to do# with the million people there, not only will## he lose world opinion.

I think he will lose# the president and lose the United States.

AMNA NAWAZ: Well, if I may bring this# back home now, because, of course,## this is resonating in the same way# as it is with both of you with the## American public -- and we know a lot# of people are very closely watching## how President Biden handles this moment,# especially in some key battleground states.

All of this unfolding at a time# that, at this moment in time,## polls show a very tight race between# President Biden and former President## Trump.

Our latest "PBS NewsHour"/NPR/Marist# poll indicates a 50-to-48 slight lead## President Biden has over former President# Trump.

That is within the margin of error.

But there are a couple of quick takeaways# I want to get both of your takes on,## if you don't mind.

In one question,# we asked Americans if they felt that## Americans have to resort to violence to# get the country back on track.

A majority,## 79 percent, disagreed or strongly# disagreed, but 12 percent of Democrats,## 28 percent of Republicans and 18 percent of# independents agreed violence might be necessary.

Couple that with another question we# asked about whether they wanted to see## a president or a leader who's willing to# break the rules to set things straight,## and some 41 percent of Americans agreed with# that.

That includes 56 percent of Republicans,## 28 percent of Democrats, and# 37 percent of independents.

Jonathan, what kind of picture# does that paint for you?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: So, the violence question,# well, it should be zero percent who say that## violence is necessary.

But that didn't# concern me as much as the break the rules,## someone who is willing to break the# rules to get the country back on track.

That's all -- that's the Trump election# -- that's the Trump campaign right there,## just wants to break the rules to get# the country back on track.

I broke## the rules coming to the studio today.# People break rules all the time.

I... AMNA NAWAZ: I was going to ask, which rules?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: I went over the speed limit.

AMNA NAWAZ: OK. All right.

(LAUGHTER) JONATHAN CAPEHART: I.. JONATHAN CAPEHART: And so I th.. they're not thinking ransack the Capitol.

They're# thinking what they might view as little things.

But when you're talking about Donald Trump,# breaking the rules is breaking law and order,## breaking social -- breaking norms, and# breaking democracy.

And so that's why,## when you have 56 percent saying that# they agree or strongly agree that... AMNA NAWAZ: That's 56 percent# of Republicans, we should say.

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Of Republicans, right... JONATHAN CAPEHART: ... but still a big# number of just.. JONATHAN CAPEHART: ... that's really concerning,# because that inures to the benefit of Trump.

AMNA NAWAZ: David, how do you see it?

DAVID BROOKS: I just want to say I followed# the speed limit on my way here today.

DAVID BROOKS: I had the exact same reaction## as Jonathan.

I'm not a big fan of# that would you resort to viol.. because I don't know what that means.

I don't# know what violence means in that context.

And so people -- when people answer that# question, that they're really saying,## how upset are you about the way things are# going?

But the breaking the rules thing,## that is, to me, also much more upsetting, because# that really is the seedbed of authoritarianism.

And it's mostly on the right.

Trump is scaring# a lot of people that we have to break the rules,## but it's a little on the left.

You hear# people say we need to bust up the system,## we need to tear down the system.

And that way lies authoritarianism.# And you can see it in the Philippines,## you can see it in Hungary, you can see# it in Poland.

Whenever you have a rise## of authoritarianism, it's because people# think that breaking the rules is somehow## OK to make the streets safe.

It's# sort of like the Dirty Harry defense.

And, to me, it's just -- that's the# most worrying part of our survey.

AMNA NAWAZ: Jonathan, I hate to ask you# this in the last 30 seconds or so we have,## but what about the impact of the third-party# No Labels effort ending their attempt to## try to field a presidential ticket?# How does that change the landscape?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: I don't# think it changes the landscape.

But good for No Labels for seeing -- reading the# writing on the wall and paying.. people who they were going to, asking them to be# on the ticket, and those people doing their own## due diligence and going back to No Labels and# saying, no, thank you, but then going public## and saying, I did my due diligence, I'm not doing# this, and I don't think No Labels should either.

Good for them.

AMNA NAWAZ: Jonathan Capehar.. JONATHAN CAPEHART: Thanks, Amna.