[piano intro] - Hello, I'm Nido Qubein, welcome to Side by Side.

My guest today is a North Carolina native, a proud NC State graduate.

He has shared with us how 20% of all jobs in our state come directly and indirectly from the tech industry.

And for every tech job created another two jobs will spring up.

That is only going to grow in time.

Our guest can tell us how that will happen and why it affects our lives on a daily basis.

Today we'll meet Brooks Raiford, the President and CEO of North Carolina Tech, NC Tech.

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75 years later, we employ more Americans than any other furniture brand but none of that would've been possible without you.

Ashley, this is home - [Narrator 3] For 60 years, the Budd Group has been a company of excellence, providing facility services to customers, opportunities for employees and support to our communities.

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Thanks to our teammates.

We're Coca-Cola Consolidating, your local bottler.

[lighthearted music] - Brooks Raiford, welcome to Side by Side.

You are the President and CEO of NC Tech.

- Yes, sir.

- What is that?

- Well, our formal name is, North Carolina Technology Association, which sort of says it all, but we are the state's advocacy organization and convener, I guess you would say, of the tech sector.

I like to use sector versus industry because we started off 30 years ago really representing the tech industry, but everyone uses tech now.

You're either tech or you're tech enabled.

And so our membership is open.

We have institutions like yours, companies, tech companies, retail, you name it, that are part of our mix because everybody depends on technology to do what they do.

- And you have roughly 700 members- - [Mr.Brooks] We do.

- You're located in Cary, North Carolina, your offices?

- Our office is in Raleigh, I live in Cary, the Triangle is our home base, but we're statewide and reach.

Our members are all over the state - And these companies are members of NC Tech because?

- It depends on the company.

Some of our company members are large brand name companies you would know, don't really need us for branding purposes.

However, they do value the advocacy work that we do.

We don't lobby much at the federal level.

Sometimes we sign on to letters endorsing immigration reform or other things that are important to the tech sector in particular.

But most of our focus is at the state level.

Tax issues, regulation, procurement of IT.

The state spends about a billion and a half or 2 billion a year overall including staff on IT.

It's a pretty big part of the budget and so our members are very engaged with that.

- And North Carolina has been a remarkably attractive place- - [Mr.Brooks] Yes.

- For tech companies.

Maybe 20, 30 years ago, we had very little in that industry and all of a sudden they're everywhere And certainly in the Triangle there is a concentration of these companies.

Tell me what attracts 'em to North Carolina besides the mountains and the beaches.

Certainly workforce, certainly our... Perhaps corporate tax system and other factors.

But in your mind, why do they choose to come here?

When I think of tech, I think Austin, Texas, I think Northern California, et cetera.

But it's amazing what's coming on in North Carolina.

- It really is.

I think it's a real mix of things.

A good stew has many ingredients and North Carolina is a good stew.

We do have the beaches in the coast, we have a good climate, we are well situated geographically on the East coast, smack in the middle, really easy access- - Which makes a difference because it's accessible.

- [Mr.Brooks] Yes, absolutely.

- Et cetera.

- It is.

Cost of living even though prices go up.

Housing of course, is expensive these days, but relatively speaking, our cost of living is very appealing.

And we have a very strong higher education, not just system, but network.

There's the independent colleges, such as High Point, there are the public universities, there's the great community college system and taken together, they are a tremendous resource for employers.

- Almost 100 plus.

- That's right, that's right.

And so what we hear from employers is, particularly the Triangle, you've got three research one level universities very close together that generate a lot of talent.

North Carolina is also fortunate in another geographic way.

We don't have just one big metro, some states sort of have a main center.

We have a number of metros and sort of second tier metros across our state.

- As in Charlotte- - Correct.

- Wilmington.

- Sure.

- Raleigh area, Greensboro-High Point.

That's what you mean by metro.

- Exactly, yes.

In fact, some of the metropolitan areas, the federal government defines a metro and interestingly, the Triad actually is two different metros.

The Triangle is two different metros.

I think they put Raleigh and Carrie together and Durham and Chapel Hill together.

But when you combine the Triad or you combine the Triangle top of the charts in many of the rankings that you see nationally.

- So one of your challenges has to be, concern about workforce, right?

Your members are concerned about workforce.

- Yes.

- A, attracting workforce.

B, make sure they're qualified and trained and educated.

And C, certainly retention of that workforce.

What is it that NC Tech does in that regard at helping your members, attract them, retain them, train them?

- Well, often we are not the provider of a direct service, but we're a convener of those who do.

So among the things that we offer directly would be some research.

For example, we put out a monthly IT job trends report that summarizes the previous month's job openings, what types of jobs they were, what skills were most in demand, what certifications were most in demand, which of the metros are up or down in hiring, what are the top hiring companies of tech talent.

Interestingly, lately, in the past couple of years during Covid and since, six to eight of the top 10 hirers of tech talent in our state are not tech companies.

It could be a bank.

- [Nido] Sure.

- An insurance firm, you name it.

So we do offer some data and some research that gives hires some sense of what the marketplace for talent is.

We also work very closely with the community college system, with both private and public universities that have computer science programs and cybersecurity programs and other kinds of programs to draw the attention of high schoolers and earlier to consider that field.

We work very closely on two legislative achievements, I think over the past couple of years that will be important.

One is to ensure that there is a qualified computer science teacher in every public, middle and high school in North Carolina.

- [Nido] Really?

- And we've accelerated the state- - And that idea there is what?

Create awareness and- - Yes, give every student a chance to have a course or have exposure to that sector.

- This is in public schools?

- Public.

The other recent development, the governor just signed a bill recently which would require at least one computer science course over the course of your high school career for graduation.

This goes into effect with the fall 2024 ninth grade incoming class.

They will be the first to have that requirement.

- I know some schools, for example, have no access to real technology.

I know Jim Melvin at the Bryan Foundation called me one day and wanted to take a school in the city of High Point, [indistinct] Avenue Elementary School didn't have iPads.

And he suggested we raise the money and get 'em iPads.

Eventually we got a federal grant that did that.

What is your take on that K-12 in terms of preparation for future technology positions or just awareness about it?

I mean, we all know, of course, that all these kids now know how to use an iPad or iPhone or I shouldn't say all, but most and social media is everywhere and we are the most connected society we've ever been and yet we are the most alienated in many ways.

So what do you believe are the challenge in our education system that's helping or hurting in terms of preparing that workforce in the future?

- Well, I touched on earlier, North Carolina has a lot of metros in it, but North Carolina is also still a very rural state.

There are a lot of areas that don't have the level of connectivity that those of us who live in- - Especially the western side or the Eastern side of the state.

- So that's a huge effort right now.

There's a lot of federal funds available at the moment, which North Carolina is a recipient of, to build out more connectivity, more access, and also keep the price affordable for families where price is a challenge.

I'll tell you an interesting anecdote that shows the distinction between a wealthier county and a poorer county in terms of making what you're describing available to students.

When Covid hit and everyone had to go home, everyone had to go to school remotely and so forth, there were a lot of students who didn't have devices, didn't have internet at home.

In Wake County they used school buses, which weren't being used as mobile hotspots to go into poor communities and park to make wifi available to families that just couldn't afford it and didn't have it.

And it's when something like Covid happens, you immediately recognize where the divide is.

That there are families that just don't have the resources- - So how are we gonna fix that?

- The challenge is that wealthier counties can do that.

In Wake County, of course, they're providing, they call it one-to-one, one device per student.

Is just part of the budget.

But there are places- - Device meaning iPad?

- iPad, laptop, Chromebook, something like that.

But there are certainly areas in the state that can't afford that and it is very unfortunate because then they do have to depend on either, private foundations, as you referenced with Jim Melvin or philanthropy.

And that's not fair to the students to depend on that random - Well, then you have to keep doing it.

The students keep coming to school, technology becomes obsolete.

You have to get something new.

It can't be a onetime event, it has to be a really a strategic plan with the future view.

What is the biggest challenge among your members today?

Is it workforce?

- It is but you teased the conversation something about the secret sauce that North Carolina has with respect to that.

I like to refer to it as sort of a triple play that we have.

We do have great institutions that are turning out students who have skills and can be hired- - [Nido] Are we doing enough for that?

- Never enough.

- When you look at for example, in the Piedmont, North Carolina with these mega sites.

When you have Toyota Battery and supersonic and on and on it goes.

There's great demand for qualified workforce.

Sometimes it occurs to me that, we work hard at bringing these companies here, are we working as equally hard to have workforce preparedness in the sectors that we're talking about?

In other words, not just to come show up to work, but to be qualified to do those specific things.

- Well, that ties into what I was saying, I believe.

So again, we have great institutions turning out talented and high skilled students.

We have an amazing existing workforce that can be upskilled.

This is where a lot of the outside institutions, community colleges do a great job with this.

- How do you upskill?

- Well, there's training, certifications and so forth.

In other words, a person who might not have a four year degree or maybe they have that but don't have an advanced degree, they can do all sorts of trainings and certificates and so forth that can advance their career and continually educate themselves and gain more skills- - And become more attractive for- - Become more attractive and get the promotions and so forth.

We also have a great inflow of talent.

North Carolina- - [Nido] It attracts people, North Carolina.

- I hear from people every day who live in other parts of the country who get introduced to me or find me somehow and will ask about the Triangle, the Triad, Charlotte typically is where they're asking about and they wanna move here, they wanna move their families here, they know they can get a job, but they want to live in this environment.

So you take those three, the students that we're producing, the existing workforce that we can upskill and train further, and the immigration of talent we're pretty well positioned compared to a lot of places.

- That creates other challenges though.

Does it not, like housing, affordability of housing.

I think about Charlotte Mecklenburg area where there are individual like [indistinct] and others were involved in evolving opportunities for affordable housing.

We're in a fantastic situation, North Carolina.

We are a desirable state to move to for many, many reasons as you've cited And yet we've got some challenges to take care of all that as our population grows and as these sectors become even more, more flourishing.

Let's talk about the schools again.

You had mentioned community colleges, very important part of North Carolina workforce preparedness.

Are we doing enough in that area?

I mean, when you sit down with North Carolina Tech and your association with you members, do you hear him saying, "Wow, we're doing exactly what we need to do," or, "Goodness gracious, if we had a choice, we'd like to do A, B, and C that would really take us places."

- Well, I think that those who work with the community colleges or who benefit from their graduates, since you mentioned them, are very pleased with the quality they're getting, they would always love to have more.

But I also think that it's important that we make sure that any institution, whether it's a community college, a public university, or a private one, has the latest technology themselves to make sure that they're educating and training students with what they're going to need and to be able to know how to do and how to work with when they go into the workforce.

That's been a perennial challenge with the community college system in the past and I think there's a lot of effort being made to ensure that they are really at the top of their game and what they have available to work with students on during their education process so that they really can walk right into a really lucrative career.

- Because technology is changing by the minute.

- [Mr.Brooks] It does.

- It's amazing.

If you look back 20 years, I'm not sure any of us expected for us to be where we are today.

I think about AI, artificial intelligence, I think about robotics, I think about all this technological advancement that demands and commands a more prepared workforce and a continually more preparation in a continual effort to get people up to speed with what's going on.

How many people in North Carolina, in your estimate, are employed in tech companies and how many people in your estimate you estimate would work in a technology related position in North Carolina?

- That is a very good question and I often spend my time explaining the distinction between the two.

So thank you for that.

The tech sector, the tech industry would be, let's say for example, IBM has a large site in the Triangle.

They employ thousands of people there.

Not all of them are technology workers but they're all considered employed by the tech sector.

- [Nido] I see, I see.

- Conversely, Belk's department store chain has its headquarters in Charlotte.

They've got hundreds of tech workers who work there, none of whom work for the tech sector but they are, all of those are tech workers.

And we track both of those.

We do an annual report that tracks that.

One thing you might find interesting is that the tech sector employs 6% of North Carolinians.

- [Nido] 6%.

- Six, but directly.

But 12% of all wages paid in North Carolina go to the tech employees.

- So they're higher paid.

- So it's very much a higher paying role- - Than [indistinct] more manufacturing position factory of say furniture or something like that.

- And as you noted earlier, higher paying jobs, no matter the sector have a spinoff of other jobs.

- Yes, of course.

- These are consumers, spending their money.

- You create economic impact.

- Correct.

- Creates jobs and- - Absolutely.

- Whether it's restaurants or card dealers or whatever it might be.

How does these numbers compare with another state that you consider to be tech savvy, tech attractive, tech growing?

Like, would that be Texas, California?

Perhaps Massachusetts.

Am I on the right track?

- You are.

There are certainly hotspots around Northern Virginia is a big one, of course, because of its approximate relation to DC.

One thing that our... We do an annual report that we commission and one thing that comes out of that is, North Carolina actually has a pretty diverse economic array of contributors.

We're an AG state, we're a tech state, we have a lot of industries, manufacturing, of course, is a big one.

And so while 6% is not a very large percentage of the workforce, in a way, it's a good thing that we have a variety of sectors.

- [Nido] Absolutely.

- That together- - Diversification.

- Absolutely.

And that puts us in a stronger economic position as a state than a lot of other states that are more dependent on one sector or another.

- I see, yes, yes.

But generally, when I look at the Boston area, for example, I'm always a bit dumbfounded how many tech companies are moving to the Boston area.

Why would that be?

Is it the universities?

Is it...

I mean, it can be the weather, let's agree on that.

- It's not the weather or the cost of living.

- [Nido] Yes.

- Well, I think it's all about gravity.

If you're a center of gravity, it tends to attract others as well.

There are some of course outstanding institutions there.

- [Nido] Others as in suppliers, subcontractors, outsourced- - And workforce.

A lot of talent there.

But what's interesting is, I won't name names, but we have companies in North Carolina that are either headquartered in the Boston area to use your example or have major presence there, where they are actually moving gradually a lot of their employees here.

- Over here, yeah.

- It costs them less not just to...

They're not paying less but it costs them less to hire and employ people here who are happy here, bring their families here, they spend money here, they wanna live here, it's an attractive place to be.

They find it very easy to recruit here.

And so that's exciting.

I was talking to a large corporation, everybody would know the name of that's headquartered in California and they tell me that their main North Carolina location has a three to one response rate internally in the company when an opening shows up of people wanting to come to North Carolina.

So that says something.

- [Nido] It's a brand that's very well known.

- I think so.

- So what's next for you?

What is it about your job that you love doing?

And as you look at NC Tech and our state as a whole, what is it that you see in the next 5 years, 10 years in terms of opportunities, in terms of challenges?

- Well, our association is in its 30th year and we started off sort of being a more of an IT focused association bigger companies and so on.

Telecom was big 30 years ago as our predominant membership type I guess you would say.

And the evolution we've seen to today, as we've discussed, is every organization is either tech or tech enabled.

I'd expect that trend to continue.

Every student needs to have a degree, lowercase degree of aptitude in technology comfort with it, because it's applicable in any job that will continue.

I think the role of institutions- - It's applicable for life.

- [Mr.Brooks] For life.

- Forget the jobs, We can't live without it.

People are ordering groceries on a computer today.

- It's hard to know what opportunities will come.

Every time there's an evolution in technology, there's fear and excitement about what that might mean.

It's always the case, you touched on AI earlier, that's a huge one right now, who knows what will come of that, what jobs will be enhanced by it, which jobs might be threatened by it.

- [Nido] And disappear because of it.

- Absolutely.

Which is a challenge to your question, what do we do with those who might be directly impacted and how do we make sure they have opportunities either through embracing AI and helping them do their job better or retraining to something else.

- I'm involved in economic development in Carolina- - Just a little bit.

- And I'm bullish about the future of our state.

And there are lots of ways to demonstrate that and to demonstrate that we should be bullish about our future here.

Not just in growth of population, but in growth of the types of businesses that are moving here.

We all know that when a business moves here, they bring with them a lot of suppliers and so on who wanna live in that proximity.

In your association, when you see [indistinct] activity mergers and acquisitions or private equity groups that come in three, five years they sell the business and so on, does that affect your membership?

Do you have less members as a result of that?

How do you offset that?

- It's not a major factor for us numbers wise.

A bit of demographics.

Most of our members are actually small and medium sized companies.

- And how do you define small?

- For us, it's the - [Nido] 25 employees, 50?

- We say if a company has 50 or fewer employees, they fit that sort of small to mediums size for us.

But that's about three quarters of our members.

But that reflects the economy.

Most businesses are small.

- But that also reflects the human sense of innovation.

I mean- - It does.

I think what you're saying is, we have a great entrepreneurial spirit in the state and so when you have 25 people, I mean, somebody had an idea, took a risk, started business, worked hard, hired more people.

I see that as a very positive thing by the way that, that you see a professor at NC State or at Carolina or Duke, wherever, and they have an idea, and all of a sudden a company emerges from that.

- [Mr.Brooks] Absolutely.

- And it creates more jobs and improves the standard of living in North Carolina and so on.

But there is a lot of M&A activity going on in technology, isn't there?

- There is.

In fact, in our own association, even though a lot of our members are not just lower than 50 employees, they're really small number of employees.

So they get bought, they might go out of business, they might change into some other type of business, they may merge with others.

We do see a good bit of that at the smaller end.

But you hit on something very interesting.

Another part of this annual research that we do shows that, North Carolina fares very well among the states in net improvement in what they call in economic development, new establishments, meaning businesses.

We see more created than fail every year, so we were growing in some cases during the- - [indistinct] - During Covid, it was not the case for most states and we held our own.

- So when you look at the country as a whole, try to rank for me what you believe are the tech kingdoms in this nation.

We start with up in Northern California and we go where from there?

- Well, the typical answer to that of course, and it's accurate, would be the Bay Area in California.

Austin, Texas would be a big one.

New England or Boston would be another major one.

But what's interesting to note is if you look below the surface a bit, yes, those have large numbers of people in our annual state rankings the research shows that there are states like Idaho, Utah, and others that percentage wise are growing the fastest, they often rank first or second in the country.

They have a great quality of life there too.

Oftentimes it's the younger tech worker who's an outdoorsy type and wants space, they want affordability.

Boise and Salt Lake City and places like that often show up at the top of the list and people often are surprised by that.

But our competition as a state is not just border states, it's people can live anywhere now in the tech sector, typically and so they go where they wanna live - And that creates enormous mobility and with the mobility come all kinds of opportunities for that state but also some complexities and challenges and adaptations that the state had to do.

Well, what you do is fascinating.

You are an executive runs a significant association in North Carolina.

We thank you for your service and thank you for being with me on Side by Side.

- [Mr.Brooks] Thanks for having me.

- [Narrator 1] Funding for Side by Side with Nido Qubein is made possible by.

- [Narrator 2] We started small, just 30 people in a small town in Wisconsin.

75 years later, we employ more Americans than any other furniture brand but none of that would've been possible without you.

Ashley, this is home - [Narrator 3] For 60 years, the Budd Group has been a company of excellence, providing facility services to customers, opportunities for employees, and support to our communities.

The Budd Group, great people, smart service.

- Coca-Cola Consolidated is honored to make and serve 300 brands and flavors locally.

Thanks to our teammates.

We're Coca-Cola Consolidating, your local bottler.