Buddy Cannon
Episode 8 | 26m 29sVideo has Closed Captions
George Strait, Mel Tillis and Vern Gosdin have all recorded hit songs by Buddy Cannon.
George Strait, Mel Tillis and Vern Gosdin have all recorded hit songs by Buddy Cannon. But that's just the start. In addition to writing songs leading to his induction into the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame, Cannon was also a top music producer in Nashville working with the likes of Willie Nelson, Reba McEntire, and George Jones.
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The Songwriters is a local public television program presented by WNPT
Buddy Cannon
Episode 8 | 26m 29sVideo has Closed Captions
George Strait, Mel Tillis and Vern Gosdin have all recorded hit songs by Buddy Cannon. But that's just the start. In addition to writing songs leading to his induction into the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame, Cannon was also a top music producer in Nashville working with the likes of Willie Nelson, Reba McEntire, and George Jones.
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Learn Moreabout PBS online sponsorship[gentle guitar music] [gentle guitar music] - Welcome to "The Songwriters."
I'm Ken Paulson.
Today, we have this great opportunity to talk to one of the greatest producers of country music, ever.
And yet today, we're talking about, not his production, not his leadership in a studio, but his amazing skill as a songwriter.
I'm delighted to welcome, Buddy Cannon.
Good to see you.
- Thank you, Ken.
Good to be here.
- You had this amazingly rich career, and, and uh, I wouldn't say that songwriting is like an afterthought.
But you've done so much.
You could be member of about a half-dozen Halls of Fame.
[chuckle] And the majority of your time, I think, career-wise, I mean, you've been a bass player, an A&R man, a producer, a nurturer of young artists, and, oh yeah, that other thing, songwriting, for which you've been named to the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame.
What does songwriting, what does getting recognized for songwriting mean to you?
- Oh, man, that's the greatest honor that I could ever hope for.
I mean, I didn't- I was writing songs before any of this other stuff happened, you know.
I came to town as a bass player, and I got- my first day in town, I got a job with Bob Luman playing bass for his band.
[laughs] - Wow.
- And I had previously met Bob at a club I played in- in Chicago, and, ah, so, he kind of was familiar with me.
And, ah, through a weird set of circumstances, I got a job with him my first day here.
- Well that never happens.
- And, you know, I played with 'em about three and a half years, and that's when I started writing songs was on the bus, you know, driving through the middle of the night, and nothing to do, and just started tinkering around with writing songs, and- - Well, I have a hunch you're the most famous songwriter ever to come from Lexington, Tennessee.
- Well, there's a couple of other guys, man.
[laughs] - There's a kid right now named Jonathan Singleton, who is a, who's having hits left and right, and he's from Lexington, ah-.
there's a few.
- I spoke too soon.
Of course, it's Tennessee.
Every, every town has a famous songwriter.
- Yeah.
- So, you- you developed your chops playing in country bands in the Chicago area.
- Yeah, yeah.
My wife and I met in high- when I was a- a junior or senior in high school, and right after I graduated high school, she was a little younger than me, her family moved from Lexington up to Chicago.
Jobs were better, better paying, you know.
So, I- I went up, decided to ride up to see her.
I caught a train, rode to Chicago to see her, and I just never came back to Lexington, you know.
Stayed up there, got a gig- got a job in a Motorola TV factory first, and, uh- and eventually I- I got tired of not playing music, and I found some guys needing a bass player.
I never had played bass before, [laughs] - But I figured hey, four, one, two, three, four- top four strings of a guitar.
So, I just, ah, bought me a bass, and went and got the- got the job.
- The early 70s Is that- that period?
- That would've been, ah, no, it was at '66, '67.
- Oh, okay.
- Yeah.
- And it was all country, hardcore country?
- Oh, yeah.
- Yeah?
- I was just reminiscing that WJJD was the dominant country radio station, probably in the Midwest at that time.
- Yeah, we were- I, I had the, the first band I started with, they were a pretty good band, but there was another band in town that was- I mean, they were as good as anything coming out of Nashville, and I wanted to be in that band really bad.
And I got- I started going to hear 'em play, and got to know 'em.
And one, one day, their bass player quit and they called me, and, ah, I went to work for them, and I met a lot of my Nashville contacts at- at the club where we were playing.
We played there five nights a week, and they would book Nashville artists in on Saturday- Saturday night.
And that's where I met Bob Luman, and I- I don't know- they had everybody there.
Waylon was there back when he had the greasy hair and, ah- [laughs] - Him, and a drummer, and a bass player, you know.
- Bob Luman is a name that, ah, unfortunately, too few people know, but he, he was, ah- he had a good number of hits in the 50s and early 60s was- I mean, he stepped into an established successful band.
- Oh, man.
He was- Bob was the most fun to play with.
He was a rock and roller at heart, you know.
A rockabilly.
Ah, the people who came through his band, it's like a who's who of guitar players.
He had James Burton, ah, Roy Buchanan, ah, a guy named Steve Smith who has played- been playing with Larry Gatlin for years, and years.
Um, I don't know, there's just an unbelievable- Steve Wariner, you know.
- Wow.
Who are those guys of that era?
Another guy who's like, that is Ronnie Hawkins.
- Oh, yeah.
- You know, all these- I mean, the band came through Ronnie Hawkins, but they were rock and rollers, who toured a lot and they hired a lot of young- young guns.
- Yeah.
- And, ah, people got experience that would pay off later.
- Oh, yeah.
And Bob wanted everything- He wanted you to play loud and fast.
[laughs] - You know?
He was so much fun.
- That's always good advice.
- Oh, yeah.
[laughs] - Especially in- - Most everybody wants you to play quiet, you know.
- That's right.
You ended up moving to Mel Tillis's band, right?
- Yeah, you know, I played with Bob for about three, three and a half years, and then I kind of wanted to do something different.
I- so I left him, and I got a job playing in a club here in Nashville, and ah, ah, did that for a couple of years.
I did not like the job.
It was really- I was making really good money.
They were a Grand Ole Opry band.
The group called, The Four Guys, and, ah, they had a club, a supper club, and we played there five or six nights a week, and then they were big, big hits at the Grand Old Opry.
Every time the doors opened at the Grand Ole Opry we played, you know.
So we were running from club to Opry, to club to Opry on Sat- Friday and Saturday night, and doing a lot of shows.
And, ah, while I was there, I had made a little demo of some songs that a friend of mine- Gene Dunlap and I had written.
And a buddy that I had met in Chicago, weird circumstances, this- this friend of mine, he's named Jimmy Darrell, he was in a band in Chicago, and, um, ah, he had gotten a job, running Mel Tillis' publishing company.
And I had just- I don't know why, I just gave him a tape of those 4 or 5 songs I had demoed.
And one night I was playing that club gig, and the waitress came up to me and said, "Hey, there's somebody on the phone, wants to talk to you.
"He says he's Mel Tillis" [laughs] - Well, this was the day after Mel had won Entertainer of the Year at the CMA Awards.
And I, I thought somebody was pulling my leg, but I went to the phone, and it was stuttering Mel, you know.. [laughs] - And he said, "Hey, I just recorded one of your songs.
"Get your butt down here-" He didn't say butt- he said, "Get down here to my office and let's listen to this."
So I got in my car and drove down to his office, and it was about 10 or 11 o'clock at night, and we stayed stayed there 'till the sun came up.
And the next day he was recording again and he cut three more of the songs that was on that demo tape.
- Wow.
- And offered to sign me to a publishing deal.
I worked with him for 13 years.
- Did you also tour with him?
- I did for about a year and a half.
Yeah.
- I'm glad you mentioned Entertainer of the Year because he was as big as they could get.
I mean- - Oh, he was, yeah- He was white hot when I got involved with him.
- And what's remarkable is he's also a great writer.
- Oh, yeah, yeah- - "Ruby Don't Take Your Love to Town."
- I was a big fan of his songs, you know, so I couldn't believe that night that I was sitting in the- in his music room in his office listening to my songs with him singin' 'em, you know.
- Your big breakthrough was really, "I Believe in You."
Could I ask you to perform that?
Play a little of that?
- Oh, yeah, I'd love to.
This was my first, ah- Mel, he cut quite a few of my songs, but, ah, no singles.
And then, then he decided to cut this one, and it ended up being a number one record for him.
[gentle guitar music] ♪ I believe in you ♪ ♪ This is all I'll need to be ♪ ♪ Bound to use the same as free ♪ ♪ The key is understanding ♪ ♪ I believe in you ♪ ♪ You saw me and let me know ♪ ♪ To me, you reveal my soul ♪ ♪ I believe in you ♪ ♪ I gave up on everything ♪ ♪ I was taught was real ♪ ♪ Life was just the way to die ♪ ♪ Then you taught me to feel ♪ ♪ Now, I believe in me ♪ ♪ You gave me a reason to ♪ ♪ You took me in, and cared for me ♪ ♪ You believed in me ♪ ♪ And I believe in you.
♪♪ [gentle guitar music] - Beautiful.
- Oh, thank you.
- Did, ah, did you ever get the chance to co-write with Mel?
- We did one- ah, I think just one song, ah, he was, ah, recording an album with Nancy Sinatra, and, ah, he asked me and, um, a guy that was another writer there, Raleigh Squires, at the office, ah, if we wanted to try to come up with a song.
So there's a song called, "Texas Cowboy Night" which was, ah, the- the single off of that record.
- That's right.
Nancy did a Nashville record.
- Oh, yeah, yeah, that was it.
You know, I got to, ah- I never saw her again after that, ah, album that Mel was, ah- and she did, but, um, I was working with Willie Nelson on a record, ah, last year, and it was a Frank Sinatra tribute record, and we did a Zoom call for SiriusXM radio, and, uh, Nancy was on, uh, on the call with us, and I got to- to remind her about it, you know- [laughs] - and it was pretty cool.
- She quickly said, "That's my favorite cut on the album."
- Well, that's what she was thinking.
[laughter] - I ah- I know you spent- also spent some time earlier in your career as an A&R man.
- Yeah.
- So, for those who are not in the business, it's artists and repertoire, and you're- you're somebody who's matching up artist with songs.
- Yeah.
- Was that helpful to you as a- as a songwriter to go through that exercise for others?
- Um, I think it was helpful, and, ah, that- you know, sometimes you write a song, and- and you pitch it, and nobody likes it, and you don't know why, you know.
Ah, it's, ah, the- being in the A&R chair kind of, kinda- if you're a songwriter in an A&R chair, it gives you a different perspective on why something may not work, you know.
It kind of gives you a better understanding.
- I'm curious when you would put your, ah, hat on in the morning, if some of you had a hat in, like, 1980, or I have a better- actually, the more official way of gauging this.
In 1980, when you filled out your tax report and it said, "What's your occupation?"
What did you write there?
- Uh, I don't remember.
- Were you a songwriter, were you a producer yet?
Were you a musician?
- I wasn't a producer yet at the time so, I guess songwriter.
- Okay.
- It would have been it.
- I ask because your career morphs in a very interesting way, and it's, ah, it's almost- it's a very common model in the business, I think, that you start out as a bass player, musician, and you go, well I can write too, and then you write, and then you're around music enough, you go, well, I could produce.
When did that realization come to you, that you could make that transition?
- Um, you know, after I signed with Mel Tillis, Mel gave us free rein to- he didn't tell us what to write, what not to write.
He just wanted- wanted you to write the best thing you could do.
But he kind of let us be in charge of doing our own demos, producing our own demos, you know, and that's when I really got the bug to- to produce records, and, ah, um, I thought I was real good at it back then, but- [laughter] - But, looking back it- I was definitely a student at that time, you know.
- When you, ah- when you wrote for Mel, you got other cuts beyond Mel.
- Yeah.
- What were some of your early successes?
- Ah, well, one thing that was really exciting to me on the song, "I Believe In You" that I just did- We got a call at the office one day- this was maybe four, or five, six months after Mel's record was a hit.
We got a call saying that Engelbert Humperdinck had just recorded, "I Believe In You."
And, ah, the story that I heard was that, ah, his producer- they were working on an album in New York, Engelbert's producer, Joel Diamond, was in a taxi going from his hotel to the studio, and heard Mel's record on, ah- on the radio in the taxi.
And then, you know, when he got to the studio, he tracked down the song, and they ended up recording it.
It was- it was a lot different than Mel's but it was a- it was a hoot.
You know, I had some cuts with, ah- ah, Joe Stampley, um, Oak Ridge Boys.
Um, during that time is when I was a huge fan of a singer named Vern Gosdin.
And, um, during that time, I-I-I got to meet Vern.
He actually moved in to a little duplex about an eighth of a mile from my house out in Kingston Springs.
And I heard that he had moved in there, and I stopped one morning on my way into- into the office, and, ah, went up to the door and introduced him.
And, you know, we kind of hit it off.
I played him a song, ah-.
I asked him if I could play him a few songs- he was getting ready to record- .
That was the word on the street.
And, um, so he said,"Yeah, bring me something in, "I'll listen to it."
So I went into work, and made a cassette with about 10 songs on it, I think.
The last song was a song called, "Dream of Me" and, ah, Vern listened to all the other songs and he got to that one, and he played it again, and played it again, and he absolutely loved it.
And, ah, he ended up recording that one, and it was a- it was a big, big record for him, I think.
- Let me ask you to play that for us.
- Sure.The Oak Ridge Boys cut this too, and It's been cut a ton of times, Alison Krauss, Mel cut it.
[upbeat guitar music] ♪ My life on the road ♪ ♪ It's been hard on me and you.
♪ [upbeat guitar] ♪ And every time we say goodbye, ♪ ♪ It's harder to do.
♪ [upbeat guitar music] ♪ But when I'm far away somewhere alone ♪ ♪ And the missing you starts ♪ [upbeat guitar music] ♪ All I've gotta do is picture you, ♪ ♪ And I can feel you in my heart.
♪ ♪ Dream of me ♪ ♪ Every time you get to feeling blue.
♪ ♪ Dream of me ♪ ♪ And I'll be dreaming of you.
♪ ♪ Well, I've been a lot of places ♪ ♪ But there's just no place like home.
♪ [upbeat guitar music] ♪ And I'm on my way back to you.
♪ ♪ Every minute that I'm gone.
♪ [upbeat guitar music] ♪ So when you get to feeling lonely just remember ♪ ♪ We won't always be apart.
♪ [upbeat guitar music] ♪ Close your eyes and think of me, ♪ ♪ And you can feel me in your heart.
♪ ♪ And dream of me, ♪ ♪ Every time you get to feeling blue.
♪ ♪ Dream of me and I'll be dreaming of you.
♪♪ [upbeat guitar music] - "Dream of Me" a big hit for Vern Gosdin of course, I think your biggest hit with Vern Gosdin was "Set 'Em Up Joe."
- Yeah, that was a big one.
- And, ah, I think Hank Cochran was on that one.
- Hank, Dean Dylan, and Vern.
- That had to be fun.
- Oh, man, we went to- Vern was getting ready to make a record for CBS, and, ah, Hank had a cabin up in Gatlinburg that he- that was a writing retreat, you know.
And, ah, we, ah, decided to all, you know, go up there for a few days, and- and do some songwriting.
And, ah, we wrote that song, uh- Uh, Dean, Hank, and Vern wrote a song called, "Is It Raining at Your House Like It's Raining at Mine?"
There was about probably six or eight songs that were written in that three-day period that ended up being hits for Vern.
- And when you go back and look at the success of "Set 'Em Up Joe" is there any clue to you when you- when you're writing that this is going to work?
- No.
We were just having fun.
We were sitting around the kitchen table, Hank had a picnic table in the kitchen area, and we were all sitting around that picnic table and- [clears throat] i think we wrote it in, ah, maybe 45 minutes or so.
And, uh, you know, I didn't think much of the song when, ah, we wrote it, I thought it was kind of funny, you know, kind of cool, but I didn't, I didn't recognize it as being something- a classic, which it has turned out to be, you know.
But I was with Vern when he played it for the first time to his producer Bob Montgomery, and Bob literally came out of his chair, when he heard it.
[laughs] And, I thought, "Man, maybe- "maybe there's more to it than I thought" you know?
And it was- it's been a great, great cut.
- Even as you've, ah, been an extraordinary producer for some of the biggest names in- in country music: Kenny Chesney, John Michael Montgomery, Reba, you continue to write.
- Yeah, I don't write as much as I used to.
These days, ah, most of- most of the writing I do has been with Willie Nelson, you know.
- Yeah.
[chuckles] I was gonna ask you about that.
- I've been recording, producing records on Willie now, for about, ah, 12, 13 years- and we, ah, we've written a lot of songs that- we do it all over text messaging, you know.
We've never sat down with a guitar across from each other, and worked on a song.
- And that includes of course the immortal, "Roll Me Up and Smoke Me When I Die."
- Oh, yeah, yeah.
[laughs] - That was the first one we wrote actually.
- Ah- ah, yeah- If you're going to get a Willie Nelson cut, that's, that's magical, that song there is- - Oh, yeah, and Snoop Dogg's on it too.
[laughs] - You're never too- - And Kristofferson sang on it too.
- Wow, wow.
You know, we just have a couple minutes left.
I'm- I'm curious- and there's a whole other show on your production.
And are you in the production Hall of Fame yet?
- I didn't know there was one.
- Oh, apparently we'll have to start one.
- But as an outstanding songwriter, did that help you when you're helping to launch the career of a Shania Twain, a Billy Ray Cyrus?
because you're able to I'm sure intuitively know what songs work for what artists now.
- You know, I- I always consider myself to be a very average guy, and I figure that if some- if I like something, there's a good chance that everybody else who's average is going to like it.
[laughs] - You know, I mean that's not- I just- i just try to find songs that- that I like, that make me want to hear them again, you know.
And, uh, that- that's pretty much it.
And, ah, you know, I- if you look at the records I've produced over the years, you're not going to see my name on there as a songwriter very often.
I mean, I- in the years, I've been producing Kenny Chesney now for 25, 26 years.
There's two songs on all those records that my name is on, as a- as a- as a writer.
And, ah, back when I was plugging songs for Mel Tillis, I would have a great song, and I would take it to a producer, and they'd shoot it down.
And then when the record came out, there would be a song on there that had the either the producer's name on it, or the writer and the produce- or the singer and the producer.
And I said to myself that if I ever get a chance to produce records I am not going to be that guy, you know.
- Well, that's a great way to ensure that you're an outstanding producer, and remain a songwriter of integrity, which you certainly are.
Thank you, Buddy, so much for your time today.
Congratulations on being a member of this Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame.
- Well, thank you very much.
I'm thrilled as I can be about that.
- It's a rich- uh, a rich career and, and, ah, duly rewarded.
- Well, thank you.
It's been fun.
[gentle guitar music] - For more information about the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame, please visit: nashvillesongwriters foundation.com [gentle guitar music]
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