MUSIC REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM THE HEALY FOUNDATION, TAOS, NM.

>>LORENE: HELLO, I AM LORENE MILLS AND WELCOME TO REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

OUR GUEST TODAY IS BUFFY SAINTE-MARIE, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>BUFFY: MY PLEASURE.

>>LORENE: WELL YOU ARE AN ICON ON SO MANY LEVELS, NOT ONLY IN MUSIC, BUT IN POLITICAL ACTIVISM, YOU INFLUENCE, YOU WORKED THE MINDS OF OUR CHILDREN WHEN YOU WERE ON SESAME STREET ALL THOSE YEARS.

AND NOW YOU ARE BACK IN NEW MEXICO, WELCOME BACK.

>>BUFFY: THANK YOU, IT'S SUCH A PLEASURE.

I ALWAYS LOOK FORWARD TO COMING TO NEW MEXICO, IF I COULD HAVE A SECOND HOME, I THINK IT WOULD BE HERE.

>>LORENE: WELL, WE WOULD LOVE TO HAVE YOU.

>>BUFFY: THANK YOU.

>>LORENE: I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MUCH WE WOULD LOVE TO HAVE YOU HERE.

YOU HAVE RECENTLY, AFTER A 13-YEAR HIATUS, PUT OUT A NEW CD CALLED, RUNNING FOR THE DRUM .

IT'S A CD ABOUT YOUR LIFE AND INTERVIEWS ABOUT ALL THE FAMOUS PEOPLE WHO HAVE COVERED YOUR SONGS.

WHEN I LOOK AT THE ARC, THE TRAJECTORY OF YOUR CAREER, YOU INCLUDE SO MANY FORMS OF MUSIC AND ACTIVISM AND TALENT, RAW TALENT AND SOMEHOW YOU MANAGED TO DISTILL IT ALL AND PUT IT ON THIS CD.

>>BUFFY: THANKS.

>>LORENE: IT OPENS WITH THIS ROUSING "NO NO KESHAGESH."

>>BUFFY: "NO NO KESHAGESH."

>>LORENE: IT IS A PASSIONATE SONG BUT VERY, VERY POLITICALLY ACTIVE.

>>BUFFY: DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS?

>>LORENE: IT MEANS NO, NO GREEDY GUTS.

BUT TELL US WHO IS THIS GREEDY GUTS?

>>BUFFY: KESHAGESH LITERALLY MEANS GREEDY GUTS, BUT IT WAS THE NAME WE HAD FOR A LITTLE PUPPY, THIS IS DURING THE 60S ON A PIAPOT RESERVATION IN SASKATCHEWAN AND WE USED TO CALL HIM KESHAGESH BECAUSE HE WOULD EAT ALL HIS OWN AND THEN HE WOULD WANT EVERYBODY ELSE'S, SO, I WOULD SAY YOU KNOW THE TYPE.

>>LORENE: YES, I DO.

>>BUFFY: SO "NO NO KESHAGESH," THE SONG, IT'S A REAL ROCKER, WE CALL IT POWWOW ROCK.

>>LORENE: POWWOW ROCK, IS THAT A GENRE?

>>BUFFY: WELL I STARTED DOING THAT ABOUT 1975, WITH "STARWALKER," THE FIRST TIME I RECORDED "STARWALKER."

IT IS A COMBINATION OF CREE-STYLE SINGING, BUT BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, A POP ROCK CONTEXT, SO THAT PEOPLE CAN ENJOY THE TWO OF THEM, IT'S A COMBINATION.

THE SONG "NO NO KESHAGESH" IS ABOUT ENVIRONMENTAL GREED.

"NO NO KESHAGESH" YOU CAN'T DO THAT NO MORE.

>>LORENE: NO, RIGHT.

YOU HAVE BEEN AN ACTIVIST FOR YEARS AND IN CASE PEOPLE, YOUNG PEOPLE, MIGHT NOT HAVE KNOWN WHAT YOU'VE BEEN DOING FOR 40 OR 50 YEARS.

I JUST WANT TO TELL THEM THAT YOU ARE THE FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN WOMAN, THE FIRST CANADIAN, TO GET AN ACADEMY AWARD, WHICH YOU GOT FOR... >>BUFFY: "UP WHERE WE BELONG" FROM AN OFFICER AND A GENTLEMAN.

>>LORENE: YES.

>>BUFFY: THANK GOODNESS FOR JOE COCKER AND JENNIFER WARREN.

>>LORENE: THEY DID A BEAUTIFUL JOB, YOU ALSO, IT'S A BEAUTIFUL IN THE 60S YOU DID A LOT OF WORK, YOU STARTED OUT SINGING IN COFFEE HOUSES AND YOU BROUGHT AN AWARENESS OF NATIVE AMERICAN RIGHTS AND THE BEGINNING OF THE NATIVE AMERICAN MOVEMENT, YOU WERE LIKE THE AMBASSADOR.

>>BUFFY: WHAT I WAS REALLY TRYING TO DO AS AN ENTERTAINER, I SAW AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPOTLIGHT LOCAL ISSUES IN INDIAN COUNTRY.

SO IT IS FUNNY THAT I BECOME AN ACTIVIST BECAUSE I THINK PROBABLY WHAT THAT BRINGS TO MIND IS PEOPLE YELLING AND THROWING THEIR FISTS AND HOLDING SIGNS AND I WAS NEVER PART OF THAT.

BUT AS A WRITER AND A SINGER AND A PERSON WHO SPOKE OUT, THAT WAS THE KIND OF ACTIVISM THAT I DID, IT WAS MUCH MORE IN THE ARTS.

>>LORENE: AND PEOPLE HAVE ASKED YOU BECAUSE YOU WERE A COLLEGE KID, WERE YOU NERVOUS, I'VE READ THAT YOU HAD SAID, NO, BECAUSE THE SONG IS MY MEDICINE, THE SONG IS MY GIFT TO THESE PEOPLE.

THE PEOPLE DESERVED TO HEAR THE SONG, I AM JUST A CHANNEL.

IS THAT HOW YOU FELT?

>>BUFFY: WELL, KIND OF, ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, I ALWAYS TELL PEOPLE WHO HAVE TO MAKE A SPEECH OR BE ON STAGE OR SOMETHING, DON'T THINK ABOUT YOURSELF.

IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU, IT IS ABOUT THE MESSAGE.

SO I THOUGHT PEOPLE WOULD ENJOY THE SONGS, ESPECIALLY MY LOVE SONGS, ROCK AND ROLL SONGS, COUNTRY SONGS.

BUT WHEN IT CAME TO SONGS ABOUT ANY KIND OF SOCIAL AWARENESS, WAR, NATIVE ISSUES, YOU KNOW, TREATING EACH OTHER RIGHT, BULLYING, WOMEN'S ISSUES, WHAT I WAS OFFERING PEOPLE WAS INFORMATION THAT THEY COULDN'T GET AT THE TIME.

YOU KNOW, I HAVE A SONG CALLED "JEREMIAH" BUT IT HAS A LINE IN IT THAT SAYS "SOME WILL TELL YOU WHAT YOU REALLY WANT ON THE MENU, DON'T BELIEVE THEM, DON'T BELIEVE THEM.

COOK IT UP YOURSELF AND THEN PREPARE TO SERVE THEM, BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW."

SO I LEARNED VERY EARLY IN LIFE THAT SOMETIMES PEOPLE WILL OFFEND YOU, MISTREAT YOU OR SOMETHING, THEY JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

SO WHEN IT CAME TO "UNIVERSAL SOLDIER," FOR INSTANCE, I THINK SOME PEOPLE HAD NEVER REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR WAR, YOU KNOW.

IN MY OPINION, WAR IS ABOUT MONEY LAUNDERING 101, THAT IS JUST MY OPINION.

WHEN IT CAME TO NATIVE ISSUES, I REALLY THOUGHT THAT AUDIENCES OF NON-INDIAN PEOPLE, IF THEY ONLY KNEW THEY WOULD HELP.

AND IN THE BEGINNING OF MY CAREER THEY CERTAINLY DID, I MEAN ONCE I STARTED HAVING TROUBLE PEOPLE DID NOT GET TO HEAR THAT MESSAGE ANYMORE, BECAUSE IT WAS ALL PUT OUT OF BUSINESS BY POLITICAL ADMINISTRATIONS.

BUT I THINK THAT IT WAS CERTAINLY WORTH MY WHILE BECAUSE LOOKING BACK ON THE WORK THAT I HAVE DONE OVER THE YEARS JUST THROUGH SONGS, OH MAN, A LOT OF PEOPLE TELL ME THAT IT MADE A DIFFERENCE.

SO I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD EVER GIVE UP ON THE IDEA THAT, YOU KNOW, ONE PERSON CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE IN THE POSITION OF BEING IN THE ARTS WHERE YOU CAN INFLUENCE SO MANY PEOPLE WHO REALLY WANT TO HEAR WHAT'S ACTUALLY IS GOING ON INSTEAD OF JUST THIS LITTLE NARROW PARTY LINE THAT SOMEBODY IS SELLING BECAUSE LIFE ITSELF IS JUST 360 DEGREES, LOTS MORE THAN JUST WHAT IS BEING SOLD ON TV THAT DAY.

>>LORENE: LET'S GO BACK TO THE "UNIVERSAL SOLDIER" BECAUSE IT STILL IS UNIVERSAL.

THE WAR, THIS WAS A PROTEST SONG, WAS USED AS A PROTEST SONG AGAINST THE VIETNAM WAR.

>>BUFFY: RIGHT, BUT DO YOU REMEMBER IN THOSE TIMES WHEN YOUNG PEOPLE WOULDN'T KNOW.

DO YOU REMEMBER FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS THEY WERE TELLING US, THERE IS NO WAR IN VIETNAM, YOU HIPPIES ARE CRAZY.

>>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.

>>BUFFY: BUT I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO, I WAS GOING FROM MEXICO TO TORONTO AND SPENT THE NIGHT IN SAN FRANCISCO AIRPORT.

IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT HERE CAME THESE GUYS IN UNIFORMS AND THEY WERE WHEELING THEIR BUDDIES ON GURNEYS AND WHEELCHAIRS, AND THEY TALKED TO ME AND THEY TOLD ME, OH YEAH, THERE'S A WAR.

AND I JUST GOT TO THINKING WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR WARS, IS IT THESE POOR GUYS WHO PROBABLY ENLISTED, YOU KNOW PATRIOTISM OR TRADITION OR DO SOMETHING FOR THEIR COUNTRY OR SEE THE WORLD OR SOMETHING AND I CONCLUDED THAT YEAH, THEY DO HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY.

I THEN GOT TO THINKING ABOUT CAREER MILITARY OFFICERS WHO SPEND THEIR ADULT LIVES GOING TO COLLEGES OF WAR AND LEARNING HOW TO MAKE WAR BETTER.

AND LOOKING BACK ON IT TODAY, AS PROUD AS I AM OF MY GENERATION FOR HAVING STOPPED, HAVING PLAYED A PART IN STOPPING THAT WAR, WE STILL ALL THESE YEARS LATER, WE HAVE FIVE COLLEGES OF WAR AND NO COLLEGE OF PEACE, NO COLLEGE OF ALTERNATIVE CONFLICT RESOLUTION.

WE HAVE ANNAPOLIS, WEST POINT, THE AIR FORCE ACADEMY, THE ROYAL MILITARY ACADEMY AND THE ARMY COLLEGE OF WAR.

THEY ARE BIG HEAVILY FUNDED IMPORTANT, LOTS OF CLOUT, SERIOUS COLLEGES WHERE YOU CAN LEARN HOW TO MAKE WAR.

BUT WE DON'T HAVE ONE COLLEGE OF THAT KIND OF SERIOUS DEPTH OF FUNDING DEDICATED TO ALTERNATIVE CONFLICT RESOLUTION.

>>LORENE: AND WE ONLY HAVE ONE VOICE IN THE CONGRESS, DENNIS KUCINICH, REQUESTING YEAR AFTER YEAR, WE SHOULD HAVE A DEPARTMENT OF PEACE.

>>BUFFY: YES, YES.

SO THERE IS STILL A LOT OF WORK TO BE DONE IN THE WORLD, IT HASN'T ALL BEEN DONE AND YET THEY DO LIKE TO SAY THAT WE SHOULDN'T GET INTO SOME SILLY CARICATURE WHERE WE BLAME THE GOVERNMENT.

THAT'S JUST USELESS, IT ACCOMPLISHES NOTHING.

THE GOVERNMENTS, THE LYNDON JOHNSON ADMINISTRATION, IT WAS A HANDFUL OF GUYS.

THE RICHARD NIXON ADMINISTRATION, IT WAS A HANDFUL OF GUYS.

THAT'S ALL THERE IS, JUST A FEW GUYS RUNNING EVERYTHING.

AND WHEN YOU REALIZE THAT, NOBODY TELLS YOU THAT, BUT WHEN YOU REALIZE THAT IT'S A STEP FORWARD.

>>LORENE: CAN YOU JUST TELL US THAT LAST STANZA, THAT LAST REFRAIN.

>>BUFFY: OH LET'S SEE, "HE'S THE UNIVERSAL SOLDIER >>LORENE: NOW HERE WE HAVE THREE OR FOUR WARS GOING ON.

>>BUFFY: YES.

>>LORENE: WHERE IS THE FULCRUM, WHO IS GOING TO MAKE THE DECISIONS?

>>BUFFY: FOLLOW THE MONEY.

>>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.

>>BUFFY: THERE IS A LOT OF MONEY IN WAR.

PEOPLE WILL SAY, NOBODY WANTS WAR, A LOT OF PEOPLE WANT WAR.

THAT'S WHERE THE MONEY IS, THAT'S THE WAY YOU GET BOYS OUT OF TOWN, YOU LOOK AT THE DOMESTIC ECONOMY AND YOU KNOW, WHERE ARE OUR SPORTS PROGRAMS, OUR ARTS PROGRAMS, EDUCATION PROGRAMS, WHERE ARE OUR HEALTH PROGRAMS, YOU KNOW, IT IS ALL GOING TO THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX THAT EISENHOWER SPOKE ABOUT.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE CAN DO, WE SHOULDN'T BE AFRAID OF IT, BUT WE DO NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, WE DO NEED TO THINK ABOUT IT.

ONE OF THE BEST STEPS I THINK ARE COLLEGES OF PEACE.

BUT PEACE IS ALMOST A FLIMSY WORD, I LIKE ALTERNATIVE CONFLICT RESOLUTION BETTER BECAUSE IT IS SUCH A HUMAN THING, CONFLICT IS SUCH A HUMAN THING AND THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF REASONS FOR IT.

YOU SEE IT IN THE FAMILY, YOU SEE IT IN THE SCHOOLYARD, YOU SEE BULLYING IN THE CORPORATIONS, BULLYING IN THE HOSPITAL AND IN THE SCHOOL.

AND IF WE COME TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE HUMAN RACE NEEDS TO GROW OUT OF, IT IS NOT LIKE WE ARE DEVILS AND BAD GUYS AND GOVERNMENT, IT IS HANDFULS OF THE PEOPLE WHO MANIPULATE US BECAUSE IT IS SO PROFITABLE AND IF WE DON'T THINK ABOUT IT AND CREATE POSITIVE ALTERNATIVES, IT'S GOING TO STAY THE WAY IT IS.

>>LORENE: WELL, YOUR EARLY DEGREE WAS IN ORIENTAL PHILOSOPHY.

>>BUFFY: YOU ARE SO SMART.

>>LORENE: AND SO THIS IS A NATURAL EXTENSION OF A MUCH MORE BUDDHIST WAY OF LOOKING AT THE WORLD.

TO CALL FOR THE INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY, YOU KNOW, IT IS UP TO US AND UNIVERSAL SOLDIER AND THEN ONE OF YOUR WONDERFUL SONGS YOU HAVE ON YOUR NEW CD RUNNING FOR THE DRUM, YOU DO "LITTLE WHEEL SPIN AND SPIN."

SO TELL OUR AUDIENCE WHAT THAT MESSAGE IS THAT IS AS APPROPRIATE NOW AS IT WAS BACK ON THE EARLY ALBUM IT WAS ON.

>>BUFFY: "LITTLE WHEEL SPIN AND SPIN," IT HAS SOMETHING IN COMMON WITH "UNIVERSAL SOLDIER" IN THAT IT IS ABOUT INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE WORLD THAT WE LIVE IN.

MERRY CHRISTMAS, JINGLE BELLS, CHRIST IS BORN AND THE DEVIL'S IN HELL, HEARTS THEY SHRINK, POCKETS SWELL, EVERYBODY KNOW AND NOBODY TELL."

IT SAYS, "OH, THE SINS OF CAESAR'S MEN, CRY THE PIOUS CITIZENS WHO PETTY THIEVE THE FIVE AND TENS AND THE BIG WHEELS TURN AROUND AND AROUND."

THE INDIVIDUAL LEVEL OF WHAT WE DO EVERY DAY, IF WE PETTY THIEVE THE 5 AND 10, THAT'S CONTRIBUTING TO JUST THE WHOLE BIGGER CONCEPT THAT IT IS OKAY TO EXPLOIT OTHERS AND IT IS REALLY NOT, IT IS REALLY NOT.

IT SAYS, "BLAME THE ANGELS, BLAME THE FATES, BLAME THE JEWS OR YOUR SISTER KATE.

TEACH YOUR CHILDREN HOW TO HATE AND THE BIG WHEEL SPINS AROUND AND AROUND."

SO SOME SONGS I GUESS ARE WORTH REPEATING.

>>LORENE: YES.

>>BUFFY: I THINK THAT THE ARTS CAN DO SOMETHING GENTLY EVEN IF THE MESSAGE IS EDGY.

I MEAN LIFE IS EDGY AND LIFE IS SWEET.

AND A SONG LIKE "LITTLE WHEELS SPIN AND SPIN" IS EDGY.

IT WAS EDGY THEN AND IS STILL EDGY NOW, IT MAKES PEOPLE UNCOMFORTABLE TO THINK THAT WE HAVE SOME KIND OF RESPONSIBILITY IN CREATING OUR WORLD.

BUT IT SHOULDN'T MAKE US FEEL GUILTY, IT SHOULD MAKE US FEEL INSPIRED.

>>LORENE: AND EMPOWERED.

>>BUFFY: EMPOWERED, EXACTLY, YES, YES.

>>LORENE: YOU HAD TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THE MORE EMPOWERING SONGS, BUT ALSO YOU DO SOME OF THE BEST LOVE SONGS THAT HAVE EVER BEEN WRITTEN AND YOU MUST BE ONE OF THE MOST COVERED MUSICIANS BECAUSE YOUR SONGS HAVE BEEN COVERED OR PERFORMED BY JANIS JOPLIN, CHER, BARBRA STREISAND, ELVIS PRESLEY.

YOUR SONG, "UNTIL IT'S TIME FOR YOU TO GO," WASN'T THAT ELVIS AND PRISCILLA'S OWN PERSONAL LOVE SONG?

>>BUFFY: AT ONE TIME, YEAH.

>>LORENE: ISN'T THAT SWEET.

NEIL DIAMOND, TRACY CHAPMAN, THE BOSTON POPS HAVE EVEN DONE YOUR WORK.

BOBBY DARREN, IT IS HUGE.

>>BUFFY: I GOT LUCKY ON THAT ONE.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>BUFFY: A LOT OF PEOPLE RECORDED IT.

>>LORENE: YES AND ALSO THE MOST EXTRAORDINARY PEOPLE HAVE DONE "UP WHERE WE BELONG."

AGAIN, HUGE, THE ENTIRE COSMOS OF THE RANGE OF MUSICIANS BUT THEN YOU'VE COVERED SOME OTHER PEOPLE'S TOO.

THE TIMBRE IN YOUR VOICE AND THE WAY YOU SING IS SO EMOTIONAL.

>>BUFFY: THANK YOU.

>>LORENE: WE'LL BE ADDING SOMETHING SO THAT PEOPLE CAN HEAR YOU SING BUT IT IS A COMPLETELY UNIQUE VOICE AND HOW MUCH OF THAT IS EMOTIONAL AND HOW MUCH OF THAT IS PHYSIOLOGICAL?

>>BUFFY: I THINK A LOT OF IT IS EMOTIONAL.

I CAN SING LIKE SOMEBODY ELSE IF I TRY, I MEAN IF I TRY TO IMPERSONATE PEOPLE.

I CAN DO THAT BUT WHY, WHY DO YOU WANT TO BE SOMEBODY ELSE?

YOU ARE THE ONLY YOU THAT WILL EVER BE IN THIS WHOLE WIDE WORLD, SO I FIGURED THAT OUT A LONG TIME AGO.

I CERTAINLY DIDN'T WANT TO BE A COPY OF SOME OTHER SINGER BECAUSE THEY WOULD ALWAYS DO IT BETTER.

SO SINCE I WAS WRITING MY OWN SONGS AND COULDN'T GET ANYBODY ELSE TO SING THEM IN THE BEGINNING AND BECAUSE MY SONGS WERE ABOUT EVERYTHING, I THINK THAT AN ARTIST IS LIKE A CAMERA, YOU KNOW, I TAKE PICTURES OF EVERYTHING AND IN DIFFERENT MOODS AND SOME IDEAS SEEM TO FIT INTO COUNTRY SONGS.

SOME FEEL MORE LIKE LOVE SONGS OR YOU KNOW IF I HAVE SOMETHING TO YELL ABOUT IT WILL COME UP DIFFERENTLY.

I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT ON THE RIGHT TRAIL, I THINK A LOT OF IT IS EMOTIONAL AND MY FAVORITE SINGER WHEN I WAS FIRST COMING UP WAS EDITH PIAF, A FRENCH SINGER, WHO WAS TOTALLY EMOTIONAL SINGER AND WASN'T EVEN THINKING ABOUT WHAT SHE SOUNDED LIKE.

>>LORENE: YES.

>>BUFFY: THAT GAVE ME GREAT COURAGE BECAUSE I NEVER EXPECTED TO BE A SINGER.

I KNEW I WAS A SONG WRITER, I WAS JUST TRYING TO GET THE SONGS TO THE PEOPLE.

I WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO KNEW THEM, SO, WHAT YOU GOT WAS WHAT YOU GOT.

YOU KNOW I WAS NEVER ONE OF THOSE, OH, YOU HAVE TO HAVE HOT TEA AND LEMON OR SOME FOLK SINGER IN SOME FOLK FESTIVAL OR SOMEBODY IN THE NEXT DRESSING ROOM WARMING UP BUT IF YOU'VE EVER BEEN TO A POWWOW PEOPLE SIT AROUND THE DRUM, THEY WILL SING FOR EIGHT HOURS STRAIGHT, YOU KNOW, CHANTING, RIGHT AND SO I THINK BECAUSE I ONLY HAD THE SONG ITSELF, AND THE EMOTION OF THE SONG WAS SO IMPORTANT I THOUGHT, SO IMPORTANT, I WASN'T FOCUSING ON MUSICAL THINGS.

AND IT TOOK ME A WHILE OF LISTENING BACK TO MY RECORDS TO KIND OF PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT AUDIENCES EXPECTED BECAUSE WHEN YOU SING POWWOW OR WHEN YOU SING THE MUSIC OF INDIA YOU'RE USING QUARTER TONES AND MOST AMERICAN AUDIENCES THEY DON'T GET THAT, THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS CHANTING THEY DON'T GET THAT, FLAMENCO SINGERS DO.

I KNOW I'M THOUGHT OF AMERICAN OR NATIVE AMERICAN SINGER BUT MY INFLUENCES FROM THE VERY BEGINNING I DIDN'T THINK ABOUT IT BUT I JUST WAS VERY HEAVILY BROADENED AND EXTENDED NEVER EXPERIENCING THE DO-RA-ME-FA-SO, I NEVER LIVED IN THAT WORLD.

I LIVED IN THE WORLD AND YET SOME OF MY SONGS SINCE I WANTED TO GIVE THE SONG TO THE PEOPLE, I LEARNED HOW TO CALM MYSELF DOWN A LITTLE BIT AND A LOT OF MY SONGS ARE VERY STRAIGHTFORWARD.

SOME OF THEM WILL USE, CHET ATKINS BROUGHT ME TO NASHVILLE, CHET ATKINS BROUGHT EVERYBODY TO NASHVILLE, HE JUST LOVED SONGWRITERS AND MUSICIANS.

>>LORENE: WHAT WAS YOUR SONG THAT HE DID, THE BEST INSTRUMENTALIST.

>>BUFFY: OH HE DID A BUNCH OF THEM.

"TAKE MY HAND FOR A WHILE," THAT WAS BEAUTIFUL.

"COUNTRY GIRL AGAIN," "UNTIL IT'S TIME FOR YOU TO GO," HE DID A BUNCH OF THEM.

YEAH, HE JUST LOVED SONGWRITERS AND HE BROUGHT ME TO NASHVILLE AND PUT ME TOGETHER WITH FLOYD CRAMER AND SOME OF THESE OTHER INCREDIBLE SIDE MUSICIANS WHO WERE HIS FRIENDS.

AND I MADE A COUNTRY ALBUM AND I SANG IT PRETTY STRAIGHT, IT IS STILL EMOTIONAL BUT IT IS NOT ALL OVER THE PLANET BECAUSE NASHVILLE AND A COUNTRY ALBUM WERE NOT AT THE TIME SUPPOSED TO BE ALL OVER THE PLANET.

WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS I'VE ALWAYS HAD KIND OF A WORLD APPROACH, BECAUSE I WAS FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO BE AROUND LOTS OF DIFFERENT KINDS OF MUSIC.

>>LORENE: WELL ECLECTIC, WE'LL SAY, YOU HAVE AN ECLECTIC REPERTOIRE.

BUT IT IS INTERESTING THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO SAY THAT THIS GENERATION NOW IS THE FIRST GENERATION THAT DOESN'T HAVE THEIR OWN MUSIC.

IF YOU LOOK IN THEIR IPODS, THEY'VE GOT FRANK SINATRA, KURT COBAIN, THE BEATLES THEY HAVE ALL THESE SINGERS AND MUSIC FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD AND YOU CAME IN ON THAT WORLD MUSIC OF THE 60S, FOLK MUSIC, INDIAN MUSIC, EVERYTHING.

AND NOW THROUGH THE INTERNET IT IS REALLY THE TIME OF WORLD MUSIC.

>>BUFFY: YES.

>>LORENE: AND I HAVE TO TELL YOU YOUR DVD IS CALLED A MULTIMEDIA LIFE , SO YOU'VE GONE FROM IT'S MY WAY TO A MULTIMEDIA LIFE .

TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT THIS, YOU WERE DOING ELECTRONIC MUSIC WAY BEFORE IT WAS COOL.

YOU WERE ONE OF THE FIRST DIGITAL ARTISTS, YOU HAD NINE-FOOT-HIGH DIGITAL PAINTINGS IN MUSEUMS AND YOU WERE ABLE, I THINK THE DUET WITH TAJ MAHAL THAT YOU DO ON HERE, YOU WERE ABLE TO RECORD IT, YOU WEREN'T IN THE SAME CONTINENT.

>>BUFFY: HE WAS IN NEW ZEALAND AND I WAS IN HAWAII AND HIS SON WAS ONE OF THE ENGINEERS AND A GUY FROM FRANCE WAS MY ENGINEER.

>>LORENE: AND YET IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE JUST LOOKING AT EACH OTHER AND SINGING.

>>BUFFY: OH WE ARE GOOD FRIENDS, WE KNOW EACH OTHER REAL GOOD.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, TAJ MAHAL AND I WERE CLASSMATES AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS.

>>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.

>>BUFFY: AND OUR SONS WERE ROOMMATES AT BERKELEY COLLEGE OF MUSIC.

I KNOW, SO OUR FAMILIES HAVE BEEN CLOSE FOR A LONG TIME, SO THAT WAS PRETTY EASY.

BUT WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT BEING EARLY WITH ELECTRONIC MUSIC, I MADE THE FIRST ELECTRONIC, TOTALLY ELECTRONIC QUADROPHONIC VOCAL ALBUM IN THE 60S.

IT CAME OUT I THINK WHAT, 1966 OR SOMETHING, IT WAS CALLED ILLUMINATIONS .

IT WAS A BIG DEAL WITH ELECTRONIC MUSIC STUDENTS AND ART STUDENTS, BUT YOU KNOW THE FOLK MUSIC WORLD, THEY DIDN'T OWN IT.

>>LORENE: WELL LOOK WHAT THEY DID WHEN BOB DYLAN WENT ELECTRIC, YOU KNOW YEAH.

>>BUFFY: WELL I THINK EVERY KIND OF ART GOES THROUGH THAT KIND OF THING.

THERE IS PURE ART WHATEVER IT IS, WHETHER BOB DYLAN IS PLAYING ELECTRIC OR NOT.

AND THEN YOU HAVE THESE LITTLE CLIQUES THAT DEVELOP AROUND ARTISTS AND SONGS AND STYLES AND YOU KIND OF GET THE FOLK POLICE, YOU KNOW, TELLING YOU WHAT'S THIS AND WHAT'S THAT AND IT IS ONLY MUSIC, IT'S ONLY MUSIC, YOU CAN'T HURT IT.

YOU MENTION DIGITAL, I WAS LUCKY ENOUGH BECAUSE OF HAVING DONE THE ALBUM ILLUMINATIONS I GOT INTO THE WORLD OF ELECTRONIC MUSIC AND THEN COMPUTERS BECAUSE IF MUSIC, WHICH TO ME IS PLAYING, I HAVE NEVER HAD THAT SENSE OF PIE CHARTS AND DOING YOUR TAXES AND WAR ASSOCIATED WITH COMPUTERS, FOR ME IT WAS JUST ANOTHER TOOL WHETHER I WAS USING IT FOR MUSIC OR ART.

ALL IT IS DOING IS RECORDING WHAT I AM DOING AND ORGANIZING WHAT I AM DOING ACCORDING TO MY WISHES.

SO THE ARTIST IS STILL TOTALLY IN CHARGE AND YET IT WAS VERY, VERY, VERY CONTROVERSIAL.

"OH, DIGITAL ART WHAT IS THAT."

PEOPLE ARE ENVISIONING PIE CHARTS OR THEY CAME UP WITH COMPUTER GENERATED ART.

YEAH, YOU ONLY WISH, YEAH, IT WAS NOT, IT WAS NEVER THAT.

SO I WAS VERY LUCKY TO GET INTO DIGITAL ART IN THE 80S WITH MY MACINTOSH COMPUTER, SUDDENLY I COULD DO MY MUSIC, MY WRITING AND MY ART ALL IN THE SAME LITTLE THING.

I PUT A FLOPPY DISC IN MY PURSE, I FLY TO TORONTO, I CONTINUE MY WORK, I FLY TO PARIS, I BORROW A COMPUTER, I CONTINUE MY WORK.

SO, REALLY, REALLY TECHNOLOGY, IF YOU LOVE IT, NOT IF YOU'RE LIKE THIS ABOUT IT, BUT IF YOU LOVE IT AND IT IS ANOTHER TOY, BECAUSE TO ME IS IT, I PLAY MUSIC AND I PLAY ON IT, I JUST LOVE IT.

IT IS NEVER LIKE, "WHAT DO YOU DO ABOUT A MENTAL BLOCK," NO, GIVE ME A CANVAS.

>>LORENE: YOU SAY YOU FEEL LIKE YOU ARE STILL A KINDERGARTENER >>BUFFY: YES.

>>LORENE: AND YOU WANT TO PLAY.

>>BUFFY: I DO, YES, I AM VERY LUCKY LIKE THAT.

>>LORENE: SO THAT THE DUAL MEANING OF PLAYING MUSIC BUT ALSO PLAYING, LET'S DO THIS, LET'S DO THAT, WHAT DOES THAT SOUND LIKE?

>>BUFFY: SOMETIMES PEOPLE ASK ME, "WHY DO YOU TAKE SO MUCH TIME OFF BETWEEN ALBUMS?"

I DON'T EVER WANT TO BE A RECORD BUSINESS DRUDGE AND SHOW UP WITH AN ALBUM EVERY NINE MONTHS AND WHAT, I MEAN, WHO'S PLANTATION AM I WORKING FOR, YOU KNOW.

I JUST NEVER HAVE BEEN A PART OF THAT MORAL.

SO I THINK A LOT OF ARTISTS IN NEW MEXICO ARE PROBABLY VERY REAL, GENUINE, SELF-MOTIVATED, SEE A HUGE WORLD, ENJOY WHAT WE DO, YOU KNOW WHETHER WE'RE AT A PUEBLO AND WE ARE MAKING THINGS WITH CLAY OR WE ARE MAKING INCREDIBLE SCULPTURES OUT OF SOMETHING ELSE AND WHETHER IT IS MUSIC OR DANCE, ORIGINALITY RULES.

AND I THINK I JUST ENCOURAGE ALL ARTISTS EXPLORE YOUR ORIGINALITY AND IF YOU REALLY WANT TO MAKE WALLPAPER, GO MAKE WALLPAPER, BUT IF YOU DON'T YOUR OWN ORIGINALITY IS MORE PRECIOUS THAN ANYTHING.

>>LORENE: WELL, YOU HAVE BEEN RECOGNIZED BY YOU HAVE GOTTEN FIVE HONORARY DOCTORATES.

>>BUFFY: TEN HONORARY DOCTORATES.

>>LORENE: OH, TEN, I'M BEHIND.

>>BUFFY: I TELL YOU I AM LUCKY.

>>LORENE: YEAH, BUT WHAT WOULD YOU TELL A YOUNG PERSON.

YOU ARE SAYING TO FOLLOW YOUR OWN CREATIVE VISION AND TO PLAY WITH IT AND HAVE FUN.

>>BUFFY: YEAH.

>>LORENE: BUT WHEN THEY BUMP UP AGAINST THE REAL WORLD, THE BABY NEEDS A NEW PAIR OF SHOES AND YOU HAVE GOT TO PAY THE RENT, YOU WERE VERY LUCKY BECAUSE OF THE ROYALTIES FROM YOUR MUSIC.

>>BUFFY: BECAUSE OF "UNTIL IT'S TIME FOR YOU TO GO."

>>LORENE: YES, YES.

>>BUFFY: BECAUSE OF ALL THOSE SINGERS RECORDING MY SONGS.

>>LORENE: SO FOR A YOUNG ARTIST HOW WOULD YOU EVOKE A WAY OF BALANCE?

>>BUFFY: NO MATTER WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO MAKE A LIVING, NOT JUST AN ARTIST, ANYBODY, YOU HAVE TO LEAVE ROOM IN YOUR LIFE FOR LIFE TO HAPPEN.

>>LORENE: YES.

>>BUFFY: YOU CAN'T BE 24 HOURS WITH YOUR NOSE TO THE GRINDSTONE OR YOU WILL NEVER HAVE TIME TO FALL IN LOVE.

YOU WILL NEVER HAVE TIME TO ENJOY, YOU WILL NEVER HAVE TIME TO BE INSPIRED TO MAKE BEAUTIFUL ART IF THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT TO DO.

SO I DON'T KNOW.

WHAT I TELL PEOPLE IS IN THE FIRST PLACE, I DON'T LIVE FOR MONEY ANYWAY, I MEAN I GIVE A WHOLE LOT OF MONEY AWAY.

BUT AND I AM VERY FORTUNATE IN THAT A SONG HAS ALLOWED ME TO REMAIN AN ARTIST AND NOT HAVE TO GET ANOTHER JOB.

BUT I HAVE HAD OTHER JOBS, SO I WOULD THINK IF YOU REALLY ARE WITH YOUR ART, GET SOME LITTLE JOB THAT DOESN'T MEAN A WHOLE LOT TO YOU TO PAY THE RENT AND PUT YOUR ATTENTION INTO SAVING ENOUGH TIME IN EVERY HOUR OR EVERY DAY AND EVERY WEEK TO LET LIFE HAPPEN ON YOUR CANVAS OR IN YOUR MUSIC OR WHATEVER IT IS.

YOU KNOW I WOULD SAY THAT TO ANYBODY, YOU KNOW, BESIDES POCKETS, YOU HAVE A HEART.

BUT YOU HAVE TO BE SMART ENOUGH NOT TO BITE OFF MORE THAN YOU CAN CHEW, I MEAN REALLY IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE 12 KIDS YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE TIME TO DO ANYTHING BUT NOSE TO THE GRINDSTONE.

>>LORENE: BUT IF YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE 47 GOATS, HOW MANY GOATS DO YOU HAVE?

>>BUFFY: THE LAST TIME I LOOKED I HAD 27 BUT NOW, BUT NOW I HAVE LIKE 20 OR 21.

>>LORENE: WELL THANK YOU FOR COMING TO US IN BEAUTIFUL NEW MEXICO FROM HAWAII.

>>BUFFY: OH, MY GOSH, YES.

>>LORENE: FROM THE BEAUTIFUL RAINFOREST AND THE HAPPY FROLICKING GOATS.

>>BUFFY: OH I WISH I COULD BE HERE LONGER AND MORE OFTEN, I LOVE IT.

>>LORENE: WELL, I ALWAYS WANT YOU TO COME AND SPEAK TO THE NEW MEXICO PUBLIC TELEVISION AUDIENCE.

>>BUFFY: THANK YOU.

>>LORENE: I'M SORRY, WE'RE OUT OF TIME, OUR GUEST TODAY IS THE ICONIC, FABULOUS, BUFFY SAINTE-MARIE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>BUFFY: THANK YOU, TOO.

>>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM