From WXXI news.

This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made last Friday in Minneapolis, where a coffee shop closed for the day, urging its customers to think about the ways that Ice agents were treating people on American streets.

And the owners of that coffee shop urged other businesses to follow.

One week later, a national business strike is taking shape in cities across the country.

Loose coalitions are organizing business closures and school walkouts.

As Business Insider notes in a post promoting a national shutdown, actor Hannah Einbinder wrote that without our withholding, our labor and capital is our most effective leverage.

National general strike.

Spread the word.

An actor, Pedro Pascal, shared a graphic of Alex Preti and René Good.

The two Minnesotans shot and killed by federal agents.

And it says pretty good reason for a national strike posted in support of the larger strike on the 30th and the Rochester Finger Lakes region.

The list of businesses either closing or at least making some changes to its typical business on Friday has grown to dozens now.

And this hour you're going to hear from some of them explaining what they hope to accomplish tomorrow.

And my first guest this hour is Bob Hartman, co-owner of UBT Bar in Rochester.

Bob, welcome to the program.

Thanks for making time for having me.

So you are closed tomorrow.

Is that right?

We are.

Yeah.

We made the decision earlier this week.

It's been kind of a long feeling week for myself as a couple of days ago or that when.

But, we made the decision to close in solidarity with the, the protests that you were referencing.

So this hour, we're going to talk to people like Bob.

And I want to state right at the jump here.

We in the last 24 hours have been in touch with a long list of businesses.

Some were very eager to talk publicly about this.

Some had planned to talk to us this hour and have told us that they have since, you know, reconsidered.

Just not closing, but talking publicly because some have been literally gotten threats.

Some have felt very uneasy with the response of some of the clientele, some clientele who support Ice and don't want to see closures.

So I know it can be sensitive.

I also know margins are really thin and a lot of small businesses feel like I don't know if I can close for a day.

I don't know if we can scale back.

I don't know if what we can do.

Bob, take me through that decision making process and what it's like for you as a small business.

Yeah, there's a lot to it.

I'm glad that you started with that because, you know, we're already getting a bit of blowback ourselves.

But, you know, we'll we'll start with the beginning when we heard, the call and I believe it was, you know, really spearheaded by a Somali student association and Ethiopian student association, the Black Student Association at the University of Minnesota, really calling for this nationwide strike.

We were hesitant at first because, you know, we were we were asking like, well, is is it going to do anything or other people going to join us if we close?

Is this, you know, what's the impact going to be?

But ultimately, for us, and like you said, those margins have them stand for us.

You know, we're a small business.

Most small businesses are not, you know, thriving right now in this economy.

And with everything going on.

We, you know, we had to ask ourselves, can we do it financially?

And then we had to ask ourselves, should we do it?

And for us, you know, we have three core values at all for their impact inclusion and mutual appreciation for everyone's values and everyone's value.

And it just came down to respecting those values.

And we we decided that we had to we had to do it to do the right thing.

And, you know, this this frozen solid or frozen two kept playing in my head about, you know, just making the next bus, the next right choice, making the next right decision.

And for us, that was that was the close.

We're going to pay our employees.

We're going to you know, still, you know, try to to make right by them too.

But you know it's going to be tough.

It's going to be hard for us this month, especially on Friday and dry January for a nonalcoholic bar.

But but that was the right decision for us.

Tell me a little bit about if you can if you were I mean, I don't want to put you in a hard spot, but tell me if you could, about a little bit of the blowback.

You know, it hasn't been as extreme for us yet as it has for some of the others that we've seen publicly already.

But, you know, we've we've received a couple of messages, just you know, so angry messages, you know, some some stuff saying that, you know, I won't repeat exactly what we said because I don't think it's appropriate for the air, but you know, that, that they're not in support of what we're doing, and that's fine.

You know, there's no there's no there's no point in doing this.

If there's no risk, then there's no point in doing this.

If there's no, you know, if it's going to be easy.

And so that's fine.

What, what concerns me more is I've seen some of the other businesses, and I don't want to state exactly what's been happening.

That ought to give people ideas.

But, you know, taking actions that would seriously hurt the business, potentially.

And, and again, that's, that's part of the game that we're playing.

I mean, I don't want to call it a game, but that's part of the risk.

That's part of what we're up against because, you know, this is a peaceful protest.

And so my I guess my reaction to all of that is if we're going to engage in peaceful protest where we're not harming you, unless you really wanted the nonalcoholic drink that day, then then why are you so angry at us?

Because we're doing this peacefully.

We're doing this respectfully.

We're we're exercising our rights.

We're trying to improve the country the way that we see it.

We're not being violent.

So how would you rather us do this next time if this is going to upset you so much?

Did you think about Bob as a small business owner?

Did you think about not doing it just because?

I think the dynamic that you're describing is the political tribalism of the moment that I don't think is particularly healthy, you know, for for people to feel like, well, this restaurant is my politics and or this bar is my politics, this bar is it.

I mean, I'm sure throughout history there are examples of this.

I'm sure it's not new to 2026, but it feels extreme and any time that you make a public statement, it probably only encourages more that.

Did you think you know, maybe it's not worth it?

Absolutely.

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say it's not worth it.

I was sad that it has to be a political statement.

I don't think I ever envisioned my business being a political business or taking a political stand, but I do see my business being a business where we can take a stand for what we believe is right and what we believe is correct for humanity.

And so.

So yes, I understand I'm not naive.

I understand this is going to be perceived as a political issue, and maybe it is a political issue, but I believe what's the point in owning a business?

What's the point in it?

Having a mission driven business that has values like ours, if we can't stand up for what we believe is right, ultimately.

Before I let you go here, because we're going to welcome a lot of your colleagues who are making the same decision this hour.

Ultimately, what do you hope comes out of this?

What do you think this can accomplish?

I don't know.

I don't know what it can accomplish.

And that's that was our biggest hang up on.

Deciding whether or not we should close or not is what do we want to accomplish?

I mean, obviously we want to accomplish is an end to the atrocities that are happening across this country, and serious, significant change in that regard.

But even if that doesn't happen right now, because of this particular moment, I want my kids to be able to grow up and look at us as people who did everything they could to fight for what was right.

I want to know and go to sleep at night, knowing that we did everything that we believe is the right thing to do when we're faced with things that we believe is just not proper, just not correct, just not right.

And so ultimately, that's I want to I'm doing this for us.

I'm doing this for for my kids.

I'm doing this for our community.

My man, you quoted frozen two.

You must have young kids.

I do, I do.

And and, you know, like that's what.

That's what makes this thing up at night is, you know, you read about all these events of history and you wonder not about what the bad quote unquote, bad people did.

But what about the good people that did nothing?

And I just don't want my kids to grow up and ask me one day, well, why didn't you do more?

I grew up thinking my dad was the one.

My dad kept telling me, Bob, do what's right and let the consequences follow.

And exactly.

And I always told people, that's my dad who said that?

My dad, my dad finally broke to me one day.

He said, actually, that's Cicero, but, you know, you know, but the root of it goes back centuries.

It's not easy to follow.

And, I want to thank you for taking the time to at least come on and explain to the community why you're doing what you're doing.

Bob, thank you very much.

You know, thank you for having me, that I appreciate it.

Bob Hartman is the co-owner of Old Bar.

And old Bar is closed tomorrow.

They are part of what is shaping up to be a nationwide business strike.

In solidarity of the protests against Ice and another business doing, I think, exactly the same as Happy Earth Tea in Rochester.

And I want to welcome Niraj Lama, who is the owner operator of Happy Earth Tea.

And just a quick note, Happy Earth is a busy underwriter, has nothing to do with why they're on the program today, but there you go, Niraj.

Welcome.

Thanks for making time.

Thank you very much, Alvin, for having me.

Tell me about your decision and what you're doing tomorrow.

Yeah.

Seven.

Yeah.

Just just a moment ago, you used the word tribalism, and I just wanted to tell you the story about about myself.

And I think, and not to not sort of, make it sound, too bombastic, but it's an improbable story of me who grew up in this nondescript town in, the foothills of the Himalayas and, and meeting this woman who was born in Buffalo, grew up in the West Coast.

And, we meet again nearly 25 years ago.

And then, I think at this point, around 16 years, now, we moved to the states, United States and, came right to Rochester and started happiest.

And, since day one, we have received so much, so much love and support from this community.

But this is the story of, of of immigration.

You know, that's how I feel, is that as of right now, right now, I think about America being a place of, of, of immigrants and of course, a lot of lot of illegal immigration happening, which needs to be stopped.

But at the same time, the level of, of, of fear and intolerance that has, that has, that you, you would never witness right now in public discourse is very disconcerting.

Personally, as well.

So, this is why we decided to, to, to join in the, the protest, the motto in solidarity with those calling for justice and accountability and competition across the country.

Well, so, Neeraj, you know, I think the people who.

Maybe disagree with you on the politics or at least the optics of the moment, they might say to you and I'm sure you've probably heard this, that, hey, you know, you did it the quote unquote right way.

And that's all we want people to do.

So why are you, you know, stepping in in a situation where the work of ice is supposed to be about people doing it, quote unquote, the wrong way?

What do you think, Neeraj?

Well, I think what I think is that there needs to be a humane way of, of, of doing this, the work of, the the way, the way the, the enforcement, is being carried out is, is terrorizing everybody, you know, and I think it is meant to be that way.

That doesn't, doesn't need to be that, so many, so many boots and guns on the streets.

You know, it's not how a civilized country would, would, would be, behaving, you know, terrorizing its own citizens.

I mean, I think earlier in the program, you were you were discussing that about the policing of of ice.

So, yes.

Yes.

I came through.

I came through the to, through, legally through to deal with due process and all that stuff.

And I think there must be due process for those, for, for others to, in case of, in case, where there is, there's justification for it.

But but, but this is this, this is terrorizing everybody, right.

Well, I understand that.

Yeah, I understand that feeling that that people feel fear.

And, you know, you have said, I think you told our colleagues at 13 lamb that you grew up looking at America as a beacon of democracy and of tolerance.

Has that is that changed for you?

Yes.

Sadly, yes.

Yes it is.

It's it's it is a deep disappointment.

And unfortunately, this is something that's happening across the world, sadly, it's it's it's, it is something that that, that's hard to do.

Hard to understand.

Yeah.

There is no currently there is no beacon of, of hope as a nation.

But I think as people, we still see individuals.

And that that gives me hope.

Stop, stop, stop.

What keeps that?

What keeps me going, you know, keeps, I have two biracial children, you know, and, for their future, for for the future of of, of of so many of us who are products of, of cultures that have been interwoven in inextricably.

But yet there is this there is this movement from the government to to undo something that cannot be undone.

Before I let you go, Neeraj, just briefly here for the small businesses that are struggling with this decision because they feel like the margins are so tight.

You know, I'm reading emails already from people are going, you know, we didn't feel like we could afford to do it or this is a hard decision and people don't want to feel like they're not in solidarity if they're open tomorrow.

I can understand that too.

What would you want your customers to understand about how hard this decision is for small businesses?

Yes, I think I think it's hard.

Either way, right.

Whether you stay open or whether you stay closed, it seems you are.

You're damned if you do, damned if we don't.

And and, and and that, that that should end up being the point of this.

The point of this is to is to is to discuss our values, you know, is to put that in the fourth front, to make to, to to make each other kind and tolerant.

If you do not agree with, with, with, with what we have done to, you know, like, have respect for it.

And as much as I respect others who may have a different view of that, but we can be civil about it, we don't have to construe each other as enemies immediately, you know, so this, this sort of, knee jerk, the, outrage that happens is, is very disappointing.

I respect any business, who's, who's who's just there, whether they're close or not.

Close.

This is a hard thing to do.

And so, I, we already have, have quite an outpouring of support from our customers, for, for the decision, we have taken and I, I think, I think, I hope, I hope and I, I'm sure will be the same for other other businesses, who have chosen to stay open, please.

Because they are they are, they are they are doing right by, by their decision.

And I think we should respect that.

Neeraj Lam is the owner and operator of Happy Earth Tea and they will be closed tomorrow.

Neeraj, thank you for sharing the story.

And for joining us.

And, and we look forward to talk to you on a separate day about, you know, maybe some happier topics.

Thanks for your time, Carson.

Thank you very much.

I will have a good one.

Neeraj Lama and happier with T again, part of this this list, this growing list, dozens now of businesses, mostly small businesses in our region that are closing in solidarity tomorrow with what is looking like a national kind of a business strike.

And the strike is designed to raise awareness and community in solidarity as a protest against Ice.

So we're talking to those who have made this decision, and it hasn't been an easy one for a lot of folks about what to do.

And our next guest is Rob Knight, who is the owner of Grass Fed, which is a vegan butcher and deli in Rochester.

And we've talked to Rob about that business in the past for a little while.

Rob, welcome back to the program.

Thanks for being with us.

Thank you.

Thanks for having me.

So you're closed tomorrow?

Yes, yes.

When we closed, tomorrow to kind of stand with the other businesses, that are kind of doing this and protesting for what's kind of going on.

So.

Okay, so give me a sense for your decision on this and, and what that was like and the kind of conversation that says, you know, what can we accomplish with this?

What are we going to do if we if we make this decision?

What does that mean?

What was that conversation like?

Yeah.

So, I first saw, Lori from Ugly Duck, post about it.

And I was talking to my, my wife, and I was like, you know, it kind of feels like that would be a, like, an important thing that we could do.

That, kind of helps show that, you know, where we stand, which I don't think our customers really are confused about where we stand.

Okay.

You know, I think it's, I think it's, always a good thing to put out there.

I went to my, employees, and I asked them what they thought, you know, if they wanted to be open, we could be open.

If they wanted to close, we could close.

And overwhelmingly, they support the decision to close.

So we made that decision.

What do you hope comes out of it?

Realistically?

Well, I mean, realistically, like, I think more things like this, right?

Where people are, are talking about what's going on.

What the reasoning is behind the decision to, to close, you know, like I heard earlier, you know, it's not like this is, you know, it's not like Friday is not a day that we, you know, don't make money.

You know, it's it's, it's normally a pretty busy day for us.

It will it will be difficult to kind of lose that, that income.

But, again, I feel like it's important to kind of, put out there that, you know, what's going on, is not it doesn't feel right.

And does it feel like the kind of country that, you know, we want to see?

So, Rob, you know, you mentioned your your clientele you thought was pretty clear on where you were.

I don't know, maybe there are some vegan butchers who are very pro what they're seeing with ice.

Maybe somewhere.

But sure.

But you know, with some of our guests, we've been talking about this idea that even businesses feel political.

And maybe, I don't know, maybe you think it should.

Maybe you think everything.

Everybody should be talking about this today.

How do you, as a business owner, navigate the idea that you know you're going to serve whoever comes in your door, for the most part, and you're going to serve the public and some people are going to disagree with you.

Do you want people talking politics or do you think, look, the more we get politics out of our business, the better.

You know, I think there there are some there.

I think there are issues out there that are beyond like what politics are.

Right.

Like, I think that, you know, as a vegan, right?

We have compassion for, you for, for all living creatures.

Right.

That is, that is like an important thing for, for for myself.

I think for the people on my staff and, and also just being respectful towards, everyone.

Right.

That, that walks in the door.

Like, you may not agree with me politically, but that doesn't mean we can't be, like, respectful to each other.

And have like a dialog.

And I think sometimes there's a lot of, jumping into not having conversations, right?

Like, yes and not and not not to say that like, you know, I don't think that the you, it's sometimes there, there are things that people do or, like things that are going on right now that like, I don't think there is a discussion to be had.

I think if you look at it, what's going on?

Like, I, I think you can systematically say that morally this is not right, like, what's happening.

So, I think I'm kind of going on a little rant here.

I'm sorry, I can get a little off topic, but, no, I don't think so.

We're kind of answering the question.

I don't think so.

No, I hear you not only kind of bring in this ethic of being willing to have hard conversations, but also saying that for some things for you, it goes it goes beyond what you think politics should be, that there should be some commonly held ideals about who we are as a people.

And you've seen certain lines crossed in recent weeks.

I mean, is that a fair way to describe it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

And I mean, like, you know, we're in the in the past, we've had people stopped coming in because I put a sign in the window supporting trans kids.

You know, and it seems like to me like, I'm like.

But that's a human being, right?

We should care about all human beings.

And, like, if you are so upset by the fact I have a sign that says, make room for trans kids to grow, that you cannot stomach eating carrots.

And I mean, I there's nothing that I'm going to be able to say to, to change your mind to that.

And like, you have to kind of just be like, well, I'm okay that you're not coming in.

Well, Rob, before I let you go, I'm going to read an email from a listener named Michael.

And Michael's sentiment, I think is is reflected in some, maybe even of your customers who think, look, we like you.

We don't want you to be hurt.

We'd rather, you know, for people who oppose with ISIS doing, they'd rather you know, I take the brunt of any sort of consequence.

They don't want to see small businesses hurt.

So Michael says, I don't understand what these closings hope to accomplish, it seems, and it will only hurt the businesses and not, I said, the government.

How would it change anything?

What would you say to that?

Rob?

I would say that it you know, this is again like an opportunity to kind of draw attention to something, right?

You pointing out that there's things going on in the country that are already right, that are not, just and that's, you know, while we might lose money for not being open for one day, it that is like that is such a small cost, you know, to pay in order to like to have people take a minute to actually be like, wait, why are they closing?

What's going on?

Like, you know, if if you've been living under a rock somewhere like this might be the thing that you're like, oh, I didn't know that was, you know, happening.

I don't own a TV or listen to WXXI or, you know, go outside, I don't know.

So I think it's I think it's important to kind of have this as a thing that we can point to.

I think it is clear that it's not an easy call for a lot of small business owners, especially.

And I want to be I want to share my gratitude for those who are willing to come out and talk about their decision.

And Rob Knight is one of them.

He's the owner of Grass Fed, a vegan butcher in Rochester and a deli.

Rob closed tomorrow.

Thanks for taking the time for us and let's talk again on a different day.

Sir.

Sounds good.

Thank you.

Rob night.

Let me go ahead and just read a couple bits of feedback here.

And then what we'll do is we'll we'll take a short break.

We've got more business owners lined up and listeners do you want to share your thoughts?

You can keep doing that.

Here's a different point of view.

Chris writes to say hi connections.

I'm a small business owner.

I do understand the general power of a strike, as in the bus boycotts and our early equal rights struggles.

But every boycott enclosure is not supportive of better governance.

When we close so many of the places where meeting and conversation and thought are shared well, are the efforts backfiring?

He says.

When small businesses do well, good governance is more likely.

Boycotting Amazon or other corporate giants seems like a more useful strategy.

Keep the meeting places open.

Go there by the coffee, by the beer.

Share your thoughts.

The strategy of any boycotting must be the pinch, the people and the government.

One hopes to move in change.

I say stay open and gather citizens for planning and programing for the governing that we need.

That is from Chris and I'll just let that stand.

I certainly understand, Chris is feeling there too.

I want to say to Chris and really, everybody listening today, we've heard from a long list of businesses and some didn't feel comfortable coming on because of the threats they've gotten over closing tomorrow as part of this national business strike that's happening, for many places tomorrow.

Some just didn't have time.

Here's blue seas from from Rocco, Rochester Contemporary Art center, he says.

We are closing on January 30th as part of this shutdown, in solidarity with the families of those murdered by Ice and with immigrant communities in Minneapolis across the US.

And here in Rochester, so many of us have been watching in horror from Minnesota to Park Avenue in Rochester, as masked agents are terrorizing communities of color, racially profiling people and snatching up everyone from day laborers to children now even murdering protesters and lying about it to the American public.

And all for what?

To use the pretext of immigration enforcement to further divide and distract us from the real issues and facing working class Americans and families.

In the face of this, I've heard some leaders express, I just don't know what to do, and I can certainly relate.

As a contemporary art center, we have a long history of supporting and exhibiting artists who address important, timely issues through their artwork, and we will absolutely continue to do that by participating in the shutdown alongside many of our neighbors, peers, and organizations like the Walker Art center, one of this country's leading contemporary art museums.

We are doing something beyond our programs to amplify and join the voices of resistance in this shutdown, largely led by small businesses.

While large corporations continue to stay open, support and enable this administration.

Is this the perfect action or statement?

No.

Nonetheless, we chose to do something and we encourage even more of our peer arts and culture organizations to also do what they can.

Imperfect as it may be.

So we are taking this moment to pause our public operations in order to acknowledge the terrifying situation we are in, support the larger community and share inspiration by looking to artists who have long been on the forefront of the struggle for justice, human rights and democracy.

That's Blue Seats with Rothko.

Sending in that statement.

After this only break of the hour, we're going to talk to some other local small business owners about the decisions they are making on tomorrow, for tomorrow, which is really taking shape as a national business strike day.

For those who are standing in solidarity against what they're seeing with Ice, we'll come right back.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Friday on the next connections.

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This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson and my next guest is Molly Hartley, owner of Scratch Bake Shop.

Molly, welcome.

Thanks for being with us.

Thanks for having me.

Evan.

How are you?

Very good.

So tell me about the plan for tomorrow for you.

So we will be closed, along with, many others in the Rochester area.

And I'm happy that we will be being closed.

I do plan on giving my employees a pay day off, and unfortunately, we had some custom order scheduled, but I'm just going to go in myself, just to meet those people who are going to be picking up those custom orders.

But we won't be open, and I will just be disabling my, website.

So we're not going to be collecting, like, any sales at all.

Okay.

Why did you decide that this was the right move for you?

I mean, honestly, I just I have always kind of followed, like my moral compass and my heart in matters like this.

Scratch has, you know, we've always been very open about how we feel politically, you know, from, like, ten years ago or nine years ago, I got a time hop on my Instagram about the women's rights movement that was going on, that we were a part of.

And then the Daniel Prude, blacks like Black Lives Matter protests.

We've always been really open about, all this stuff and supporting it.

So I just feel like it's definitely the right thing to do.

Some of your colleagues in small business ownership have told us, both privately and on the air today, that they've gotten some blowback from customers who don't like their political position.

Are you concerned at all about that?

No, not at all.

I knew we were going to get we always, you know, no matter how what you say, you're right.

Like in a public setting, you're going to get some negative feedback.

We've lost a couple hundred followers on Instagram already.

I really don't care about that.

I'm a couple hundred.

Yeah, we lost a couple hundred followers on our Instagram.

But you know what?

It's not my goal to, like, have followers on Instagram.

It's my goal to do the right thing in life.

And I didn't start a business to make money and to please everyone.

I started a business, to do something that I love that makes me happy to make other people happy.

And it just so happens we have a pretty, you know, we have a lot of followers on social media.

So if I can use my platform, and my voice for matters like this, that's, I think what makes me feel proud and successful as a business owner.

Molly, before I let you go here, the I would say that the common dissent we're hearing is either that what you're doing actually isn't going to hurt ice, or it's not going to hurt the government.

It's going to hurt you and your your fans don't want you to hurt yourself.

But also, as I mentioned, Chris, the small business owner, wrote in and said, hey, let's let's put the pressure on the Amazons.

Let's put the pressure on the big guys.

Let's keep the the coffee shops and the bakeries and the small places open to meet and talk and have discourse not closed for the day.

So what do you make of those arguments?

So we've already gotten like hundreds of comments and messages from people saying like, you know, I didn't I have never been into your shop, but I'm going to come in now and I'll see you on Saturday and Saturday.

We're celebrating our 11th anniversary.

And we've got a lot of people say they're going to come in, because we're posting this.

So I think, I think you'll get the right people to support you if you're vocal about the right things.

And I think this is a moment in history where we can't be quiet.

And no judgment to the businesses that can't close out of, like, you know, financial strain.

Most of those places I've seen are still posting that they're going to be donating, proceeds to immigrant, you know, organizations.

So I think just being vocal is what needs to happen right now.

Molly, thanks for making time for us.

We appreciate it.

Yeah.

Thank you so much, Devon.

Have a great day.

Molly Hartley is the owner of Scratch Bake Shop.

Here's an email from Mary Howell in Mary Helen Penn Yan who says, Evan, not many of us, small businesses, not many of us have small businesses.

We can effectively closed tomorrow to make a statement, but we all have discretionary spending.

For those opposed to the recent Ice activities in Minneapolis and elsewhere, we can choose to spend no money tomorrow anywhere, either locally or online.

Those supporting Ice activities can choose to spend their discretionary money generously.

It isn't as obvious or as challenging, but collectively it will definitely make a noticeable difference.

That's Mary Helen Mary, how is right?

If you're a small business owner, you may not have a storefront.

You may not have a brick and mortar.

You may not have a place that could close on Friday to even be sort of part of the list.

That seems to be growing of businesses that are joining this part of the national strike tomorrow.

So, Mary Howell, thank you for that.

My next guest is Kat Eddy.

Katarina Eddy is the owner of Kat Boucher.

And Kat spent a little while.

Welcome back.

How are you?

I'm great.

Thank you.

How are you doing?

Great.

And I do appreciate you making time.

Tell us.

Remind people what Kat Boucher is and tell us about your decision for Friday.

Yeah.

So, we are a nonalcoholic kombucha brewery.

We've been around, since 2017, and we're located in the Rochester Public Market.

And.

Yeah, it's just we definitely it was, you know, it was a hard but easy decision to make.

It's an easy decision to make with my heart.

It's a hard decision to make with my head to clothes tomorrow.

But, But we are we have to stand in solidarity.

Like, this is very important right now that we come together and make a strong statement.

And again, I've been asking, I think everybody who's on this program today, just for your thought on what you hope can get accomplished, because I do think that in general, from the emails I'm reading, there is a lot of solidarity and support and appreciation, but also some confusion.

So what do you hope does get accomplished here?

I think I can really understand that, and I also maybe share that a little bit with with people.

But at the same time, it wasn't me and it wasn't the other business owners that designed this strike.

I think the importance of the solidarity in, in the like, the messaging and the reason for the strike and that we are going to join in, we don't have to sit here and say, oh, I could do it better this way or that way.

I think it's just one of those things where, we're in a crisis and someone is taking action and, you know, we have to jump jump on with that.

Can it be done differently next time?

Sure.

But, you know, to to your, the person who emailed, to their point, you know, no one's supposed to be buying anything.

So even though it's, hurting the little guys to be close.

Yeah, we'd love for, like, target and and Amazon and and Walmart to, like, lead the way and be closed.

Wegmans for you know.

But they're not going to do that.

But we also don't have to patronize them either.

Well, let me read a little bit of feedback here as well.

Kat, I'm curious to get your thoughts on this.

Matt writes to say, even on Reddit I've seen people shaming businesses who are not closing.

And and I want to read an email from Dan Lill, who's director emeritus of our Community Bikes.

He says our Community Bikes has not yet decided to close or stay open on Friday.

I am pushing for the former, but I'm receiving pushback from others.

My position is based on the fact that we serve many of those who might be endangered in today's atmosphere, and that we at our community bikes are about more than just the bikes we are community bikes.

But Dan's point is they're having this discussion and, you know, they're a really important service every day for people.

And it's not easy just to say we're going to close.

And so to match point for for you know, he's reading these Reddit threads and people are going, well who's staying open?

Let's shame them.

I don't know that that helps either.

What do you what do you think?

There's not going to be like one answer that fits every business, you know?

And, that's such a that's such an important point for our community bikes, that they serve a community.

So for them to be closed, to make a statement, maybe it's not the right model for them.

For us, we're a luxury item.

You know, you can come today.

We're open right now until three.

And you can come back on Saturday.

But, we are going to join in that statement of, yeah, we're not participating in capitalism tomorrow.

Not everyone has that luxury.

And, that's totally understandable.

And that's kind of like, that's kind of a chokehold that, you know, is that Americans are in right now, is that they can't actually express themselves because they're in this chokehold of, like, capitalism and, and living paycheck to paycheck.

That is actually the point.

Well, here's K, who says even these comments, questioning or not supporting the closings are a bit shortsighted.

I think it's actually a great move.

And as a side effect, we should amplify its positivity by learning what establishments participated and choose to give more or first time business on another day, not Friday when they're closed.

That's from K. What do you think, Kat?

Sure.

I you know, we definitely have gotten a lot of messages of support and just like other people, we've gotten some, some flak as well.

I would love for people to, you know, have this be a way that they have found us.

We are a welcoming space.

You know, I'm a woman owned business.

We've had a lot of queer people work and, and, you know, women, men, queer people.

So we, you know, we really do try and welcome everybody.

And, Boucher kind of fits a nice mix match for everybody.

So, yeah, we do really hope that people, it's not necessarily like a situation where you're just getting out of buying something for a day.

It's more like, okay, I'm going to stand in solidarity and hold my dollars back on Friday and then spend them consciously, either prior or afterwards.

Kat is the owner of Kat Butcher, located where Kat we're, 106 Railroad Street by the Rochester Public Market.

Thanks for making time.

Nice to talk to you.

It's been a little while, I know.

Good to talk to you, too.

Thank you.

Katerina.

Edie, the owner of Kat Butcher.

Again, listeners are sending us different lists, and I can't confirm on the fly here and there.

You know, people are saying, well, this one's going to close.

I'm sure the list is growing by the hour.

It's happening in other cities, and it's happening across the Rochester Finger Lakes region.

I know in Geneva there's talk of businesses closing for the day tomorrow as part of this national strike of solidarity.

But I can't keep running list until we confirm.

It's just there's a lot going on here.

I can confirm that Jenna Kershner is with us.

The owner of the unreliable narrator and unreliable narrator.

Is is going to be taking some action tomorrow, and Jenna is with us.

Hi, Jenna.

Thanks for being with us.

Hello.

Hi.

So tell us what.

First of all, for we.

I've been to unreliable narrator.

Tell us what you do.

Yeah.

So I am a bookstore.

Kind of like bookstore slash gift shop, like half spokesman, half like a lot of little random, like, trinkets and, like, special interests.

Things that I have.

Okay.

And where are you located?

In the village gate in Rochester.

So what's your decision for Friday?

Yeah, I have decided to close my business.

Yeah.

I mean, I saw the call for it by, but, like, black student Union, the Somali student union at the Ethiopian Student Association from the University of Minnesota.

They put it out, and it was something that I was able to do, I'm able to do.

And so I yeah, I made that decision.

Okay.

So my support was there any, you know, sort of push pull in your mind about does this hurt the wrong people?

Is this going to be effective?

You know, how did you think about that.

Yeah.

I just I just want I just wanted to participate, to show my support and solidarity and then also just raise awareness of actions that people can take.

You know, I feel like it.

I would love to see, like, the big stores close, like Wegmans locally here.

That would be amazing.

But, you know, maybe we're not there yet, but seeing all these other small businesses close is amazing.

And, you know, maybe we all do this.

And then people look to Wegmans and say, hey, why aren't you guys doing this?

Yeah, it that's it's an interesting point that you're making because for, for for something like this to have effect, I assume what it, what it needs, what it requires is it's Friday afternoon and someone goes, well, you know, I'm going to go swing by.

I'm going to swing by.

Unreliable narrator I was going to go to, you know, scratch.

I was going to go to grass fed whatever.

And you try to go there and it's closed, and then the next place you go is closed, and then you say, like, what's going on here?

And then you find out, yeah, but it takes some critical mass of that to really break through.

Right.

Do you think that's happening?

Do you think the numbers are growing enough?

I don't know if it's enough yet.

I think it's growing in the right direction that a lot of people are like, we don't want ice in our communities.

What are we going to do about it?

So I think that I don't know if numbers are there.

Yeah.

Because I think in the larger sense, sort of like a general strike.

It's like I think I saw like 3.5% of the population is needed.

And that's like a totally different conversation.

Right.

But but yeah, I think that we're that a lot of people are standing up and saying, no, we don't want this.

What can we do?

Are you at all concerned about any negative feedback?

No, not like online, I guess.

Like there's always the worry that, like, real people could come into the store and, like, you know, just put my employees at danger or something.

Overall, no.

And we have, like, you know, we talk through safety plans and stuff.

I think it's like it's there, but it's not like where we're we're not like focusing on that.

But but we're also aware of it.

Yeah.

I we again, we have heard from some local small businesses who declined to come on connections today because they've already gotten threats.

And yeah, I understand that.

I mean I get it and that that can be really uncomfortable.

So, so before we let you go here, Jenna, for the people who are, you know, going to kind of bump into this or not engage with it right now, but are going to find out tomorrow that their favorite businesses closed.

Do you think that that can affect enough of their consciousness?

What do you what do you hope comes, you know, kind of goes through their mind tomorrow?

Yeah, I hope that I hope that, you know, people.

Yeah.

It just they start to question like, okay, why are businesses doing this?

And then they take it internally.

You know what?

Okay.

What can I do.

What what's my next step.

Can I participate in this story.

So you know, like maybe I'm not going to buy any of the big stores big or small.

So kind of just one person at a time, you know, making that decision.

Thanks for making time for us, Jenna.

I mean, I know everybody is busy.

And thank you for popping in.

As the owner of the unreliable narrator, I know you're going to be closed tomorrow.

Thanks for telling the story.

Yes.

Thank you.

Jenna Kershner, unreliable narrator.

Let me grab a quick phone call from Gloria in Canandaigua who's been waiting to jump in here.

Hello, Gloria.

Go ahead.

Hi.

I'm calling because I'm very grateful and grateful for what these small businesses are doing.

And I think it does matter.

And if it doesn't matter initially, it definitely will.

And I also wanted to if I could just tell about the talks that I heard, Heather Cox Richardson YouTube channel where she interviewed Jeff Clements, who talked very much, and it was wonderful about what we need to do as a nation.

And he talked about this one site called American Promise Dot net.

But he's, he's really incredible in how all of the things that I use is doing.

And people on that side of the scale, how they have been doing the these kinds of things for the last 50 years, we need to look at that very big, full picture and listen to what he says, because there's some very good things coming along with all the small businesses.

So that's all I needed to say.

Gloria, thank you for the phone call.

Gloria calling in, offering, appreciation and admiration for the decision that some small businesses are taking some businesses in general, taking tomorrow in what is shaping up as a national strike day for small businesses and businesses in general, closing in support of the Movement against Ice.

Michael Solis is our last guest of the hour.

He's the executive director of writers and Books in Rochester.

Michael, welcome back.

Thanks for being with us.

Thanks, Evan.

Happy to be here.

What's the decision for writers and books tomorrow?

The Writers and Books has decided to close tomorrow as well.

We feel that this is a really important act.

And primarily because we see that the enabling space for freedom of expression, speech, assembly, are not being respected and protected.

And this is everything that we do at Writers in Books is connecting readers and writers, promoting writers, promoting voices and expression.

And we're we're worried about the enabling environment, not being, not existing for, for that purpose.

I want to read a couple of comments to you, Michael, that come from viewers who are on YouTube, two different viewpoints on this decision.

The first says, why self-inflicted pain?

This hurts the businesses and the folks who support these businesses.

Why make less money to support what you support?

No other way to make a statement without hurting yourself and others to that.

A viewer on YouTube responds, how does a hunger strike hurt anybody except who is hungry?

It's peaceful protest.

It's a way to bring pressure and it's supposed to support those who are striking and withholding their money.

So two different views.

Where do you come down?

Do you understand why some people say, look, keep writers and books open.

You're a community hub.

You're a place where people offer thinking and ideas and expression, and we need you open.

What would you say to that?

You know, I can understand the viewpoint.

But when I, when I look at the facts and what's happening on the ground, I mean, one of the people who was murdered for no good with a poet, she was of our community.

And this is obviously stirred a deep emotional reaction and reflection nationally.

And what we are worried about is the space for creativity, the space to create, to to share our belief, the space to speak out, is being compromised.

This is one day.

It is quite symbolic.

And we recognize that this is also a reinforcement of why our mission matters.

As writers and books, we are an organization that supports and builds community and this is one day where you can see.

What does it feel like to not have an organization like Writers in Books?

Where does it not feel like to have our independent bookstore?

What does it not feel like to have all of the businesses around?

And as we push for for that enabling space to exist, this is the primary goal.

We will be back in business this up the following day, but we still are worried and concerned.

About the fundamental fundamental respect for human rights, about the respect for our constitutional rights to be able to create this enabling environment.

We heard from one small business owner earlier this hour who told us she's already lost a couple hundred followers on Instagram alone for posting against Ice and another small couple other small business owners told us that they would like to come on the show today, but they didn't feel comfortable because they've gotten actual threats.

Michael, are you concerned at all about any blowback?

Yeah, I've seen some bots posting on our Facebook.

I'm not sure if they're bots or who they are.

And, you know, to be honest, I'm not so concerned with the negativity that will always exist.

My biggest concern is our day to day operations, the safety of our team, the safety of our customers, the safety of our community.

And I think by closing tomorrow, that is a small symbol of what we're hoping for is greater safety, and greater support to the community so we can do what we do every day.

I appreciate the point that Michael just made about.

But if people aren't identified by name and I know why some people can't on social media use their own name and face, but we're in an age where it feels like it's easy to assume that you're just arguing with bots now, which is generally why I don't do it.

I, I kind of appreciate the idea that I can assume if I can't see a face or a name, that I'm looking at a bot.

Michael, a couple other comments.

David in Vancouver says, I totally agree with going on a spending strike as well.

Doing otherwise direct rewards to those who don't take a moral stand on Friday.

And Rick says, Evan, I appreciate the efforts of the small businesses who are closing.

I think it is important to keep in mind that this is just one step among many that citizens can take to challenge the abuses of Ice and the administration.

What do you make of that?

Michael?

Yeah, I think this is the least we can do.

It's a recognition and a nod to what's happening.

The people in Minnesota are the ones who are actually physically showing up, in the freezing cold.

They're out there, fighting for their rights and pushing for our constitutional rights and for this space to exist.

And I think if we can do anything in our power as individuals, as businesses, as organizations to to give a nod to, to that incredible work that's happening, why not?

I think when you say it's the least we can do, I think that is a noble way of looking at it.

I also think it's important from all of the what I'm reading today, from small business owners in a lot of different sort of sectors, and then reading the comments from some just the general public.

If you don't own a small business or you don't run a small business, it's probably easy to assume that this is just an easy thing you can do.

So while I think Michael's point is a noble one, he said the least we can do in a hard time.

Michael, my last question for you is, you know, what would you want people to understand about assuming that this is just easy for any small business they see closing like it's nothing, just shut down for a day.

Of course it's challenging.

This means especially for businesses that depend on profit.

We are a nonprofit organization, right?

So, we're not in the business of generating huge amounts of revenue.

So this does have implications for people's business models for their ability to pay their employees.

So it is a huge risk, especially for small businesses that are struggling today.

It's not an easy world.

A lot of businesses in Rochester have closed since the new year.

So I think there are serious concerns.

Let's, you know, tomorrow's the day.

Let's see how it goes.

And if there's a future, strike again.

Maybe the businesses that did not closed this time around had time to consider and reconsider their choices for for the next time.

Michael Solis, executive director of writers and books there, among many who will be closed tomorrow as part of this solidarity strike.

Thank you for making time for us again, Michael, and I know we'll talk soon.

All right.

Thanks, Evan.

Take care.

A long list of local businesses joining us on connections this hour to talk about this decision.

Talked about how they made it, what they're hoping that you and the public experience with it and what you're thinking about tomorrow.

And if you have send an email, comment on YouTube, if you've called a lot of a lot of feedback here and it's not just one position, I mean, there are a lot of people with a lot of different viewpoints.

That's what it's all about.

That's why we're the public square.

So thank you to everybody who participated in the program today and from all of us at connections, wherever you are, whatever platform you're finding us on.

Thank you for being with us.

We're back with you tomorrow on member supported public media and.

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