GENE: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS… WILL NEW DEVELOPMENTS MAKE THE DIFFERENCE IN NEW MEXICO’S BATTLE AGAINST TOXIC P-FAS CHEMICALS?

KENNEY: We really can’t wait.

We need to get PFAS out of our groundwater, out of our drinking water, and treat it in a way that actually contains it.

> GENE: PLUS, SERVING UP THE TRUTH ABOUT THANKSGIVING MYTHS, DURING THIS MONTH OF HONORING NATIVE AMERICAN HERITAGE.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I’M YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

ALSO IN STORE THIS WEEK, SHARING OUR THANKS FOR ONE OF ALBUQUERQUE’S GREATEST TREASURES...

THE BOSQUE.

AND, WE MEET THE MAN BEHIND THE MUSIC OF THE HIT SHOW RESERVATION DOGS.

UP FIRST, NOVEMBER IS A MONTH DEDICATED TO RECOGNIZING THE CONTRIBUTIONS OF NATIVE AMERICANS.

LAST YEAR, PEOPLE WHO IDENTIFIED AS AMERICAN INDIAN OR ALASKA NATIVE ALONE, AND IN COMBINATION WITH ANOTHER RACE, REACHED MORE THAN NINE MILLION, ACCORDING TO THE U-S CENSUS.

A STEP IN ACKNOWLEDGING NATIVE PEOPLE WAS RECENTLY TAKEN BY THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, WHICH ISSUED THE FIRST-EVER PRESIDENTIAL PROCLAMATION OF INDIGENOUS PEOPLES DAY.

YET, NATIVE COMMUNITIES ARE OFTEN OVERLOOKED.

STEREOTYPES, MYTHS AND MISUNDERSTANDING OF TRIBES ARE STILL VERY MUCH PART OF PUBLIC PERCEPTION.

THIS WEEK, CORRESPONDENT ANTONIA GONZALES TALKS WITH SOME MEMBERS OF THE NATIVE COMMUNITY ABOUT HOW WE CAN ALL CELEBRATE NATIVE PEOPLE WITHOUT PROMOTING STEREOTYPES OR APPROPRIATING THEIR CULTURE.

ANTONIA: Josh and Dorie, thank you for joining us on New Mexico in Focus.

JOSH: Thank you for having us.

DORIE: Thank you.

Thank you for having me here also and Josh.

ANTONIA: The fall, especially between Halloween and Thanksgiving, it's a time that the public gives attention to Native Americans, Tribal communities across the country.

But, it also often raises myths and stereotypes.

Josh, what are some of those that you most commonly hear?

JOSH: Well, I think that there's a number of common misconceptions, myths, stereotypes that go along with Native peoples and they do rear their heads around this time.

One of them, in particular, is that all natives or all tribes are casino rich.

And, we know that that's not in fact the case.

There's other myths that lead to people believing all Natives get free education, free college education.

And that's not true, either.

And then, also, that every Native American gets a government check.

And, there are a number of falsehoods that go along with that as well.

So, you know, this time of year, when there's a lot more awareness with Native customs and battling that, it's a priority that we are out telling the truth.

And especially this month, when we share the real story of Thanksgiving, so that way we don't become caricatures in a history plan or a history lesson.

ANTONIA: And when people, when you go and you talk to people or educate or doing your advocacy or your work with your organization, Josh, how do you talk about Thanksgiving?

JOSH: I think we talk about it very honestly and I think that's been the disservice of the American education system, was that it was an attempt to sugarcoat or gloss over what actually happened, as far as factually happened with the Wampanoag tribe and you know the story behind it and the facts behind it definitely tell a very different, a time, but also a very different history.

And it was probably a little bit more graphic than people would have liked to believe, but it wasn't a very positive experience for Tribal members at that time.

And so going into our presentations, we just want to be really honest about what we know now and start to dispel some of those myths that were taught to school students very early on and open people's eyes.

So, that way, they know that there is a greater story that has way more details.

ANTONIA: And another version that is also factually accurate, that has largely been untold, and Dorie with your organization you do a lot of outreach, service missions, and there are still a lot of stereotypes when it comes to Native people, especially when it comes to helping people with food and water.

What are some of the misconceptions that you hear from the public?

DORIE: Yeah, just like what Josh said, that, you know, misconception, like there's always doll out and free for the Natives, but actually no.

And also, like, Native people are always drinking.

It's not true either, because not all of them drink, like, they're not so concerned about their children.

But no, they're very family-oriented, very family-oriented.

And, I just love our Native people here, our Navajo community and I am so glad that, you know, they have accepted me as part of their family, also, with my 15 years of living and working on the Navajo reservation, it feels like home.

ANTONIA: So, Josh you partner with the Dorie's organization.

They're one of many partners across the country that you work with.

So, talk a little bit about why that's important to work with other organizations like Dorie's, to reach out and help Tribal communities.

JOSH: That goes along with helping to dispell myths and I think that's a key, key for our organization is that we're very community centric and so we do our own, you know, asset based mapping exercise and partner with the community, partner with organization’s like Dorie’s.

So, that way we're providing the types of goods and services needed for that community.

We don't approach it as a cookie cutter style, where we think it's a one size fits all solution.

We know that different communities have different needs and we want to meet those communities where they're at, rather than us coming in and trying to dictate what's going to be a solution.

We want to work with those communities, to make sure we're finding long-term, sustainable solutions, but also that meeting the short-term need for the communities.

And, you know, organizations like ours, we are community-driven.

We're native driven and bringing in the community resources makes those impacts long-lasting.

And so, we're able to have a greater impact providing exactly what the community needs rather than, you know doing, a dump and drop and run of things that they may not have any use for.

So, it's being more strategic, it’s being more intentional, but that community aspect is very common in native communities and native populations.

So it is about taking care of each other.

It's about taking care of our elders.

It's about taking care of our youth and that continual cycle of education.

And so, if we can lend the resources to help dispel some of those myths and start to break some of those cycles of trauma, then that's what we want to do.

ANTONIA: And, a lot of your advocacy and work, both of you, has to go along with people not knowing the history of Indian people here in the United States, Native Americans, Alaska Native people across the country and how its treaty and trust responsibilities and how their governments work, about their histories, languages and cultures.

And so, there is a lot of education that goes into providing services and helping dispel miss and helping, you know, talk about why these stereotypes even exist in the first place, Josh… JOSH: Absolutely and I see a lot of our work is education.

It's constantly educating and re-educating people, because being such a small minority of the population and you know the world evolves really fast.

And so, the story and the true story of Native peoples gets lost.

I mean, people are, you know, because in some ways it's not glorified, in a sense, to make it a really a hot topic, but when people really sit down and start to drill down and dig a little deeper, they're blown away at how rich the history of Native people are.

How you're correct the treaty and trust obligations extend, you know, requirement and they do put the government on the hook.

And so, it's their burden that they've created by not setting Native people up for success, you know.

And so, as we move forward, we want to create an environment of health, wealth and prosperity.

And so, talking about these ideologies, even with estate planners or estate attorneys, you know, they are absolutely blown away about this whole treaty and trust responsibility, you know.

Basic things that are, we grow up with, as Native peoples.

Knowing, with regards to Federal Indian Law, that the dominant society has no conception of, you know, is that Native people can't, you know, freely sell their land.

They don't freely own their land, you know, small nuggets like that, that come to head and in dominant society they think, “Well, why doesn't, why don't Native people just sell their land?” And they can't, you know.

There I,s there's specific guidelines, rules and regulations that they can't and so each one of those are deeply rooted in, you know, cornerstones of federal Indian law.

And so, when we go through those exercises, it's constantly re-educating people and it's great to see different movements throughout the United States.

For example, the land acknowledgments are really popular right now and it's great to see more communities, universities, events acknowledging those types of issues or being able to do land acknowledgements.

But, what's the next step, you know?

It doesn't stop there with a land acknowledgement and it's looking at how do we mobilize and use that more effectively and not just, as you know, a precursor, but let's make it meaningful and so that way it is an impact on, with Native communities where they are and that way people learn the history.

But, those efforts of it may be renaming a movement to rename a river or rename a park or rename a place, but that just is a gentle reminder, you know, that as Native peoples we are still here and that it's other people, mainstream's obligation to be more Native aware.

ANTONIA: Thank you for that Josh and Also, Josh, you're talking about the resiliency of Indigenous communities, you know, here in New Mexico, across the country.

And so, Dorie, how can the public appreciate Native culture and celebrate Native people, without, you know, doing it in a bad way?

Go ahead, Dorie.

DORIE: You know, treating them and respecting them as people.

Like, remove the stereotyping.

When we, when we approach our Native people here, we don't second-class citizens or something.

We treat them as precious people of value and we have just to respect them and recognize them.

Recognize their presence.

Recognize their language.

Respect their language, you know.

When I, while I was serving here, I have heard so many sad stories that students of the past, even in the boarding schools, they were made to eat soap when they speak of their Native language, which is very sad and that left a big scar on them.

Right now, you know, in the mission, we try to value their language.

We try to study even a little bit of their language.

I try to learn small, you know, a short conversational word and by that, they feel very important when they hear us speaking of their language, even short language.

Or, we sing their language.

They are so very proud.

They are so very happy that we value, we value them and they said, “Oh, you were, you were different from other missionaries who have gone earlier before.

You, they… you know they puddle us when our kids.

They puddle when they speak the Navajo language.

They let them eat soap when they speak their language.

Nut now, here, you are, you're speaking your language, even if it's broken.

You sing our language.

We can't even sing our language.” And that, that kind of lift their spirit up and, to me, that is very important, to treat them as precious people, created by God.

Also that we, you know… So, that's one way of celebrating the Native, the Native people this month of November, not just doing a day celebration but in our daily life, show to them that we care, because, you know, in our community outreach, we've always said that people don't care how much you know, unless they know how much you care, which is very important in connecting and celebrating, you know, the Native people around us.

ANTONIA: And Josh, what Dorie is talking about, a little bit, too, is that reconciliation and also acknowledging the past and dispelling myths and looking at stereotypes definitely goes along with that.

And, as people move into the season between you know the end of the year, there's a lot of charitable giving going on.

Both your organizations work year round, not just during the holidays on charitable giving.

Josh, how can people contribute help or, you know, even just learn about Tribal communities across the Country?

JOSH: Thank you for that question and I think that you're right and the reconciliation that's taken place right now, with the boarding school movement, has been huge.

But, you know following or getting involved or engaged with a Native-led, Native serving non-profit is important.

Not just this time of the year but all throughout the year.

You know, we have a need for sustained donors, people that want to be involved and sometimes that may be by volunteer, but it's also financially, you know, being able to financially support a non-profit that specifically addressed food and education.

I think those are both critically important, you know.

I think we have some resources on our website that if a reader or listener wants to download the real history of the first Thanksgiving and then share that, you know, with friends and family and really, you know, have an honest discussion about those things and allow yourself to be transported back in that time, you know, and to feel the things that Native people had felt and what they have gone through to build that resiliency of where we are today.

I mean, obviously we would discourage anyone from donning any sort of Native Costumes or Native Regalia, inappropriately, you know, to celebrate Native Heritage.

But, instead, really get involved in your community or where you're at.

ANTONIA: Well thank you both, Josh and Dorie, for joining us today on New Mexico PBS.

JOSH: Thank you Antonia.

DORIE: Thank you Antonia GENE: NEW MEXICO HEALTH OFFICIALS JUST GOT SOME HELP IN THEIR FIGHT AGAINST TOXIC PFAS CHEMICALS.

TH ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY, OR EPA, RECENTLY GRANTED GOVERNOR MICLLE LUJAN GRISHAM’S REQUEST LISTING FOR TYPES OF PFAS SUBSTANCES ARE HAZARDOUS WASTE, UNDER A FEDERAL POLLUTION LAW.

ENVIRONMENT CORRESPODENT LAURA PASKUS CAUGHT UP WITH SECRETARY JAMES KENNEY OF THE STATE’S ENVIRONMENT DEPARTMENT, TO FIND OUT WHY THAT ONE SIMPLE CHANGE COULD ALTER THE DYNAMIC WITH THE U.S. MILITARY, WHICH USED THESE CHEMICALS IN FIREFIGHTING FOAMS AND CONTAMINATED GROUNDWATER NEAR CANNON AND HOLLOMAN AIR FORCE BASES.

LAURA: Secretary Kenney, welcome back to New Mexico in Focus.

KENNEY: Thank you for having me.

LAURA: So, we're once again talking about PFAS contamination from military bases here in New Mexico.

Just to remind viewers once again what are PFAS, and, you know, kind of, what are the problems?

Why are we concerned about them?

KENNEY: Yeah.

So, PFAS are a chemical that are, that are typically used in firefighting foams, but they can be used in other household products.

Things like stain, fabric protection.

Think of your Goretex clothing and things like that.

Anything that's water repellent may have PFAS as the active ingredient that made it water repellent.

But, in New Mexico, the biggest problem that we have here is with the, with the fire-fighting foams at, typically, our military bases.

But, the concerns about PFAS are growing, growing every day, as the science continues to evolve.

It's clear that the health studies show that PFAS can cause things like high cholesterol.

They can cause things like, certain types of cancers, certain types of diabetes and things like that.

There's about 9,000 chemicals here.

So, it's kind of hard to say which one causes what, but generally speaking they cause those kinds of health ailments, chronic and acute health problems.

So, the federal government, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, the agency that's kind of in charge of setting drinking water and sort of regulatory frameworks for states and Tribes, they have not set an actual limit for PFAS exposure in drinking water.

They have set a health advisory.

LAURA: How does that lack of a federal regulation make things hard for states like New Mexico?

KENNEY: Well, it's a great question.

And, it makes it hard, because you don't know what a safe level is and whether you're drinking water from a municipal water system, where most many New Mexicans get their water from, or whether you're drinking it from a private well, you can test for PFAS, you'll get a result and hopefully it's non-detect… zero… but if there is a detection of PFAS, then the next question is, what's safe?

And a lack of a federal standard for many years now has hampered states and Tribes from determining how to work with communities, to not only protect them, but enforce against those standards being exceeded.

Fortunately, now, there's some commitment to developing that, that drinking water standard.

Under the current administration and from the U.S. EPA.

So, hopefully we'll see that soon.

LAURA: So, here at New Mexico PBS, we focused a lot on groundwater contamination from Cannon Air Force Base and Holloman Air Force Base and earlier this year the governor petitioned the EPA to list four of these thousands of types of PFAS as hazardous waste, under a federal cleanup law.

Can you talk a little bit about that issue and how that affects, or might affect New Mexico?

KENNEY: Yeah, absolutely.

So, I'm gonna try to avoid using the legal terminology and just speak more in plain English, but the state of New Mexico, just maybe a little bit of a backstory here, the state of New Mexico asked the Department of Defense to clean up PFAS at Cannon Air Force Base, under the hazardous waste rules of the state, which are the same as the Feds.

The Department of Defense said no, we're not going to do that.

And then sued the state of New Mexico to prevent us from doing that.

That started in 2019.

We feel as though the EPA now agrees with us, that those chemicals, once they're in the groundwater, are a waste and they're hazardous.

They're a hazardous waste, but we needed to petition the EPA to say, do you agree with the state of New Mexico and effectively that's what we did.

And, clearly, the EPA concurred, by saying that we're going to partially grant the governor's petition.

And, by partially granting that they just said, we're going to do it for these chemicals, these four chemicals, as opposed to the 8964 other ones.

So, that was a big win for the state, that the federal government, EPA agrees with the state of New Mexico.

LAURA: So, what does that mean for, for like the Environment Department moving forward?

What can you do, that maybe you couldn't do before?

KENNEY: Well, I think what we could do before, we did.

And, we said, when an entity like the U.S. government, or a private company spills or discards PFAS on the ground, you can't do that.

That's illegal.

That's dumping of hazardous waste, pure and simple.

The authority that we, that has been concurred by EPA just further bolsters that we were right and the Department of Defense is, I think, who really needs to understand that.

The rest of the Biden administration is now agreeing with the state of New Mexico and they're the ones that are out of line with their interpretation of these hazardous waste laws.

So, I think they the Department of Defense need to come in line with the rest of the federal government, the state of New Mexico and actually play ball here.

I mean, this is where they do business.

This is the communities they work with and in these are the people they employ.

And this is where their service men and women are.

To say that they don't have to take responsibility for the waste that they got into our groundwater is absolutely ridiculous.

No other entity in the state of New Mexico has that ability to do that and neither do they.

LAURA: Right.

So, PFAS is not, unfortunately, you know… it's not just a New Mexico problem.

Other states have these, these contamination issues as well.

The EPA’s partial granting of this petition will have national implications, do you think?

KENNEY: Absolutely, and since the petition was granted, we're being contacted by, you know, everything from, everyone from law firms to NGOs to talk about the national significance of the governor's petition and EPA granting that.

And, in fact, whether you're in Tucson, Arizona, who is struggling with their own PFAS issues in their drinking water, or you're in Michigan, with similar issues, the governor's petition kind of reset the landscape around the way New Mexico's position, or put New Mexico's position out there and gave other states that tool to say, “Hey, when you spill PFAS and disregard it and don't clean it up, that's actually a violation of state and federal law.” So, again, we open the door for other states to follow in our lead.

Laura: The state released some study results recently, testing 55 wells in Curry and Roosevelt Counties, for 28 of these different compounds and I'd like to talk about the study a little bit, because the results show that the levels in these wells are below this EPA health advisory we talked about.

But, I know that scientists recommend that you have no exposure to PFAS over the course of your lifetime.

There's no safe level.

So, can we talk a little bit about what you found, which seems like good news, but also, you know, what are people being exposed to?

KENNEY: It's a good question and it is a little confusing, but that 70 health advisory level that EPA published, that's something we go by, but it's not the only thing we go by.

And what we do in our department, when we look at any PFAS test result, especially for drinking water is, we look at what all states have promulgated as their drinking water standards.

So, there's some pretty aggressive standards out there in states who have taken a leadership role, to make sure that their drinking water is safe, by promulgating low, low standards.

So, whenever we get a test result back, we first look at that 70 and then we say, “Well, how does it compare to other states?

Vermont, Michigan… the list goes on and on and what I can say about those 55… I think it's 55 test results that we received, not only are they below the EPA threshold, but they're below other state drinking water thresholds.

It doesn't mean that the water is completely free of PFAS and just saying that it is below those other state standards as well, that are science-based, drinking water standards, to protect public health.

LAURA: So, this study, you know, the Air Force notified the state of the contamination in 2018, but it doesn't seem like we have a good sense yet still of where the plume is and how it's moving.

To my knowledge, the Air Force has not done those studies, have not delineated the plume.

Do these survey results help the state understand where the plume is and how it's moving?

KENNEY: Yeah, so we're not just relying on people's wells to under, you know, to figure out where the plume is and how and how quickly it's moving and where it's moving.

We're also doing our own remedial investigation, but the results you're speaking of, that are in drinking water wells, those do help us understand how quickly the plume is moving as well.

So, there's a lot of that integration of the scientific information we get, from looking at the source area and then going out and looking at people's drinking water wells.

And the drinking water area.

The drinking water provider in Clovis, EPCOR is also monitoring their wells for PFAS, so we feel we have a good safety net and we want to make sure that that plume is remediated before it hits any of those other wells.

LAURA: So, we've been talking about Holloman and well, we've mentioned Holloman.

I've been talking about Cannon Air Force base.

The Pentagon released a report more than a year ago saying that there was the potential for PFAS contamination at Fort Wingate, the Army National Guard Armories in Rio Rancho and Roswell, the Army Aviation Support Facility in Santa Fe and White Sands Missile Range.

Has the state heard anything about these studies?

Have you received these studies?

Do you know if these studies have even been initiated?

KENNEY: Yeah, so what you're getting a slice, or a view of, with respect to the conversation we're having is some of the real targeted and most important PFAS work we're doing in the state, with respect to those bases.

But, as you point out, it's not the only PFAS work we're doing.

And in those particular instances, those particular sites that you just mentioned, we are working with different agencies, if you will, different organizations to make sure that if there is PFAS at those locations that we're aware of it.

We're regulating it.

I can give you an example.

As a result of what happened at Cannon and then thinking about the Rio Rancho site that you mentioned, we're looking at all our groundwater discharge permits to make sure that, if one of those facilities, like Cannon or the Rio Rancho site, if they need a PFAS limit or they need to do PFAS monitoring before they discharge, are associated with their discharge.

That they are doing that.

So, we, I think we have about 25 permits out of 700 now, discharge permits, in the state of New Mexico that have PFAS monitoring requirements.

And the work we're doing, with, particularly, the Rio Rancho site is kind of influencing that outcome.

So we know there's PFAS.

We're working to make sure that it's monitored.

We're working to make sure that those other sites are brought into the fold as well.

So there's litigation, there's disagreement… LAURA: What is the, what is your sense of transparency from DOD?

What is communication like?

How do New Mexicans, how can we be reassured that important conversations are occurring?

KENNEY: Yeah, that's a great question.

So, we publish… let me just always give you this information, that we publish all the data on our website.

So, as soon as we collect a sample and we have that information, we put it right on our website.

So, we try to make it as transparent as possible.

And our different programs, our drinking water bureau, our hazardous waste bureau, we work with communities to help them.

Understand the results, because it can get complicated.

So, we're working with individual communities.

But, all that information is on our website.

The conversations that we're having with federal agencies like the department of energy, we had a great conversation with them about the mixed waste landfill at Sandia, saying that PFAS has become a concern.

Since the time that that landfill was put in place and we want you to start monitoring for PFAS.

And they're doing it.

They're doing it right now and those results will go up on our website.

I think it's the Department of Defense that is lacking, not only transparency with New Mexicans, but lacking communication with the environment department.

I, as well as members of my staff, jump on their Zoom calls to give community updates of what they're doing on base, which is not what they're doing off base, because what's happening off base is nothing.

That's everything that the environment department is doing and that New Mexico taxpayers are paying for.

So, you can rest assured that our department is trying to put as much information out about PFAS as possible and we're having the important conversations with federal agencies like DOE, who's very responsive on this topic.

And DOD, who is using the court system to not have the conversation.

LAURA: It seems so interesting to me, because from administration to administration, environmental policy often changes.

We see that with the direction that lots of different federal agencies have taken, including the EPA.

And yet, on the PFAS issue, in particular, the DOD seems to remain the same, regardless of administration.

I'm curious, is that normal?

Do you do you see hope for DOD coming around to this issue of PFAS contamination and remediation in New Mexico?

KENNEY: I'm hopeful every day.

And we're sending a letter to the Department of Defense this week, saying that, in light of EPA's clarification and an agreement with the state of New Mexico, that we would like you to do what we asked and continuing to litigate against the state of New Mexico is unconscionable, actually, at this point.

But, I'm hopeful and optimistic that we'll see real leadership at the Department of Defense that will say, we do business in New Mexico.

We are, have, we are part of the community and we want to do the right thing.

It's, I… it's never too late to do the right thing and that's what we hope the DOD will realize and give us a call.

LAURA: I just wanted to circle back to the EPA.

We mentioned the health advisory versus the drinking water standard.

EPA has said it's moving forward with its PFAS action plan.

Do you have any sense of when EPA will potentially announce a drinking water standard, or how long it could take for one to be in place?

KENNEY: So, under their recent announcement, which is now the PFAS road map… just to that… I think they're distinguishing the road map from the action plan, because there's more movement now in the, in their PFAS actions, but I don't have any great sense on when they're going to set a drinking water standard, but I'm optimistic that it'll be under two years.

I think the urgency by which, not only New Mexicans, but anyone from this country is dealing with PFAS, demands that it should be as soon as possible, because we really can't wait.

We need to get PFAS out of our groundwater, out of our drinking water, and treat it in a way that actually contains it and doesn't just shift it to another, you know, to the air, to the land, anywhere else.

So, I'm hoping it's sub-two years, but I'm really hoping it's sooner than that even.

LAURA: Well, Secretary Kenney, thank you so much.

KENNEY: Thank you for having me.

Really appreciate it.

GENE: RESERVATION DOGS IS ONE OF THE STANDOUT SHOWS OF 2021, BOTH ON AIR AND ONLINE.

THE SHOW GIVES A UNIQUE AND COMEDIC GLIMPSE INSIDE THE LIFE OF A GROUP OF NATIVE AMERICAN TEENAGERS.

ALTHOUGH IT IS SET IN A FICTIONAL TOWN IN OKLAHOMA, THE SHOW IS BEING CELEBRATED FOR IT’S ABILITY TO WALK A FINE LINE BETWEEN BEING TRUE TO THE EXPERIENCE OF NATIVE AMERICANS WHILE ALSO APPEALING TO NON-NATIVE AUDIENCES.

PART OF THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE TERRIFIC MUSIC USED IN THE SHOW WHICH HELPS TO SET THE SCENE WITHOUT RELYING ON CLICHES AND STEREOTYPES.

CORRESPONDENT LAURA PASKUS RECENTLY CAUGHT UP WITH THE COMPOSER FOR RESERVOIR DOGS, MATO WAYAHI TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT HIS CREATIVE PROCESS.

LAURA: Thank you so much for joining me today.

I'm so excited to have you on New Mexico in Focus.

MATO: Yeah, thank you for having me.

I'm excited to be here.

LAURA: So, you were the score composer for Reservation Dogs, a wildly successful show that just wrapped up its first season.

Can you explain to us, what does a score composer do and, specifically, what were you setting out to do with this particular show?

MATO: So, the score composer basically creates all of the original music for the series.

So, when you watch the show, there's a lot of songs that are, that we license.

So, it'll be like a ?

????

song or the Stooges, or what have you.

And so, obviously I have nothing to do with that, but I have all the other music that you hear, that's original, or that you don't recognize, or that sounds new, is, yeah, that's me.

So, it's kind of, you know, it creates the ambiance for some scenes, whether it be a scary scene or a funny scene.

That's, kind of, what I'm doing, is creating the sounds around that.

And so, and I think a lot of, with the intention of it, Sterling and I, the show runner, we had a lot of conversations before things actually geared up.

And, it was what about my music, personally my music, what can I bring to the table and how does it resonate with a lot of the thematic qualities of Reservation Dogs.

And, fortunately, I mean, there were a lot of similarities and there was a lot of alignments with what I'm trying to do with my own music and what the show has done and accomplished.

And so, it was a really good partnership and a good collaboration.

And so that was kind of the intention with it too, it was kind of to subvert what people expect of Native and Indigenous representation.

And so, as a Native artist, that's something that I really strive towards as well, is to kind of subvert that and to kind of create new meaning in our own definitions of it.

So, I think the show has done such a great job of doing that as well.

So, yeah, that was kind of the intention with the music.

LAURA: That's awesome.

So, I love the show so much and my favorite episode is episode five, the story of Dear Lady and kind of Officer Biggs origin story.

And that Red Bone song “Come and Get Your Love” is such a huge part of, like, the whole episode.

And I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about what you did within that show and how the music really defined the whole story of that particular episode?

MATO: Yeah, that was a, yeah that was a fun episode to do.

There's… I was tasked with a couple different assignments for that one.

There was kind of the one, you know, there was the low, kind of, brooding score of when Dear Lady is around.

And so, that was really fun to do, because that's something, I mean, that's like very classical composition.

For a lot of, you know, western film is that type of droning stuff.

And so, that was fun to dip my toes into.

And yeah, it was a good time.

And then, also, but on the flip side, there was really funny moments with the, you know, yeah, with Officer Biggs and Cheese and they're going through the car and you hear that really just 80s like synthetic Miami Vice-type of vibe.

And so, that was me too.

And that was really fun to do as well, because it was the juxtaposition between the two.

And, I think, that's the most fun part about working on the show.

One of them is that the variation in musicality is really, it's fun.

It's always a challenge for me.

It's always nice to try different stuff.

But, yeah, that was, those are I think some of the two prominent score pieces that I did for that.

LAURA: Yeah, it was like the Dear Lady and then the tribal cop chase, which is, yeah.

I listen to that sometimes, just when I need like a little pick-me-up.

Yeah, it's super fun.

Really just an extraordinary episode.

One of the other things that makes Reservation Dogs so unique is, at the same time that you're, you’re honoring and raising Indigenous culture, it also has such a wide appeal to so many audiences.

We were talking here the other day about the episode with the owl and how the owl is kind of blanked out.

I was wondering how do you go about balancing that same fine line with the music and the score?

MATO: In terms of kind of creating, like a lane, for some traditional aspects, is that what you're wondering?

<I think so> That was the conversation that Sterling and I had and you know we, I think the tropes of Hollywood, involving Native and Indigenous people are so ubiquitous, in a lot of different ways.

And so, our whole task was to make sure that we didn't fall victim to any of those.

And so, with that, I mean, there were a couple different elements of incorporating that, but, you know, there was no, we had a rule… like no native flute, until we used a Native flute, but it was fought more for the irony than it was for the actual sentiment.

But, there was a moment in the last episode the season finale of, so there's a tornado and there's this like break dance beat that I made and so I remember we were in a sound spot meeting which is basically deciding what music is going to be in the episode and what I need to make and so Sterling, I said, he said, Mato, you should make, like, make a dance beat or something.

I was like, okay, and then he's, like, also I'm going to send you a Muskogee-Cree, like, war cry.

Like a war chant and so I said, okay.

So, if you listen to the song and the score is available on all the streaming platforms, you'll hear during one of the breaks in the song, there's like this war cry and then I edit it to where it's on rhythm and it goes to the song.

So, there's little things like that as well that you're kind of like sampling the culture and re-implementing it and re-emphasizing and that's very hip-hop in the essence of, you know, rap music and production.

And so, and the show is very hip-hop in a lot of ways and so it was nice to implement that as well as, yeah, incorporating some traditional aspects.

LAURA: So, this show features all kinds of great music, including like ?

?

?, Blackbird, the Hallucination, just so much great music through every episode and also your own music.

Can you talk a little bit about your own work and your creative process?

MATO: Yeah, so I started making music when I was 15, 16 years old.

I'm just 24, like couple, as in, in the last couple days, I turned 24.

And so, yeah… so I've been doing it for quite a while and I don't know, I think i just, I had no intention of doing scoring or anything.

I just, I had always produced my own music and my music is very, you know, it's very hip-hop, very poppy, a little bit of jazz and stuff and so I'd always made my own music and with no intention.

And then, I think, yeah, with scoring, it kind of answered a lot of questions for me as to why I might have done that, because I was working kind of in the dark.

I didn't know why I was making all my own music and producing it and now with scoring it's a very hands-on job and so it feels like I'm ready for it and I'm grateful that I just kept going with it, but yeah, I mean, I do, I sing, I rap, I… Yeah, make the beats and everything like that.

So, it's… I take a lot of pride and it's so fun to me.

Like, it's, yeah, it's like the best time and so with the with the scoring and specifically with Reservation Dogs, you know, they're… I'm asked to do a lot, but in the best way, you know.

It's like sometimes I'll need to sing.

Sometimes I'll need to rap.

Sometimes I'll need to make a scary, yeah, like sci-fi song or composition and stuff.

And so, I feel equipped just from what I've done previously.

And yeah, so that's kind of like what I've been doing recently, is just, yeah, making my own music and then also scoring and stuff.

LAURA: On your website, you write about building a world where Native American and Indigenous artists can fearlessly express themselves.

How close do you think we are to that world?

Are we there right now or is it coming?

MATO: That's a great question.

I think it's a, it's kind of an everlasting journey for a lot of Native and Indigenous kids to, you know, decolonize their expectations of themselves and their definitions of our communities and of art and expression and fearlessness and all these different components to what it is to, for you to kind of find yourself.

And so, I think I've just noticed in my, in my work with Indigenous youth and, you know, throughout my lifetime, in my recent past couple years, is, I just noticed that a lot of great space to kind of heal from these different historical traumas and generational traumas is just expression and creative freedom and creative license.

And so, I think it's, that's an ongoing thing and I, you know, I don't expect to see any, like, I don't know, I guess, like, qual… you know, quantifiable change in my lifetime or anything.

But yeah, if I can inspire some kids to just think that they can do it too and think, why am I, why am I not doing this, you know?

And so, because, you know, I wish I had that growing up, but i didn't have someone who does what I do.

So, I want to be that for the next generation.

And so, that's kind of the sentiment behind that and I think we are getting there.

I think we're nearing towards it.

I think a lot of it comes with these different aspects of representation and also just agency and things, so it's very exciting to see, you know.

And it's funny, people call it like the Renaissance, but I think we've known how powerful our art is for thousands of years, you know?

And so, it's nice to see other people see it and also relate to it as well, because, yeah, yeah, yeah… LAURA: Oh sorry.

I'm curious how you think audiences can help build that?

Would like, what do we need to be doing?

MATO: That's a great question.

I guess you know with a lot of the representation and the art comes this aspect of you know humanizing our experience, because I think that's one of the most debilitating qualities that colonization has had and all these different things is like, it's taking away the human aspects of who we are.

And you see that a lot, you know, with mascots still and the whole Halloween costumes and that viral video of that woman doing that chant and that dance and things.

It's like, it's very, these very dehumanizing elements.

So, I think understanding our human experience and honoring it and having relatability, because what we go through, what a lot of Native and Indigenous populations go through it, you know, it's somewhat similar to what a lot of different marginalized communities go through.

It's just, you know, it looks different and it's concentrated differently but it is the same.

It's still those same human components.

And so, yeah, I think just being empathetic and understanding that there's no monolithic idea of what a Native person is or what an Indigenous person is.

And yeah things like that, you know.

LAURA: And so what are you working on right now, or what's next for you?

MATO: Those NDAs.

I can't, I can't right now.

I'm just, I'm just hanging out right now, working on some new music.

A couple different projects, a couple different TV projects and whatnot.

It was nice, I spent the whole, you know, first half of the year working a couple different jobs and so it was kind of high stress and somehow I'm kind of debriefing and decompressing.

And I got to join the writers room for season two which was really fun and it's fun to see what everybody's up to and the ideas that they're having.

So, that's been great and then just visiting family, stuff like that.

Kind of taking it easy, but, yeah, always, kind of, my mind doesn't never stop working on music.

So, I'm always thinking about it, always writing stuff and I think also I want to keep sharpening my tools for next season, to make sure, because you know, the show is going to be bigger and better, as they always are.

And so, I want to be bigger and better with my own music to, you know, compliment it and so yeah it's been fun, though.

It's been, it's been a good life.

It's so good.

LAURA: Well, I can't wait for season two.

I love this show so much and really the music is such a big part of what makes each episode so interesting and unique and just really great.

So, Happy Birthday.

It was really great to talk with you and thanks for joining me on New Mexico in Focus.

MATO: Yeah, thanks Laura.

I appreciate it.

GENE: FINALLY THIS WEEK, AS WE QUICKLY APPROACH THE LAST MONTH OF ANOTHER CHALLENGING YEAR, WE WANT TO TAKE A MOMENT TO GIVE THANKS FOR ONE OF ALBUQUERQUES GREATEST TREASURES.

AND THIS IS A PERFECT TIME OF YEAR TO CELEBRATE ALL THAT MAKES THE BOSQUE SO SPECIAL, FROM THE SANDHILL CRANES AND MIGRATORY BIRDS, TO PORCUPINES, BEAVERS AND MUCH MORE.

HERE NOW... OUR LAND CORRESPONDENT LAURA PASKUS’S HOLIDAY CARD TO THIS ENVIRONMENTAL GEM.

>> Laura: IN THE BOSQUE ALONG THE RIO GRANDE, THROUGHOUT THE SPRING AND THE SUMMER, WE SEEK OUT THE COTTONWOODS FOR SHADE, RELY ON THE RIVER FOR SUSTENANCE TO WATER OUR HEELS OR TO COOL OUR BODIES FROM THE NOONDAY SUN.

IN THE AUTUMN, WE CELEBRATE THE BRILLIANCE OF THE COTTONWOODS WHEN THEIR CANOPIES FIRE THE RIVERBANKS WITH YELLOW.

BUT BY LATE OCTOBER, ESPECIALLY AS NIGHT STARTS FALLING EARLIER, IT'S EASY TO TAKE THE BOSQUE FOR GRANTED, OR TO STOP WALKING BENEATH ITS CANOPY ALL TOGETHER.

BUT I THINK IT'S THE BEST TIME OF YEAR TO BE HERE.

AS THE TREES DROP THEIR LEAVES, IT'S EASIER TO SPOT PORCUPINES NAPPING IN COTTONWOODS AND ELM TREES.

OR GNAWING ON BARK, OR FINDING THE SEEDS OF RUSSIAN OLIVES.

IN THE SANDS ALONG THE BANK, YOU CAN SEE WHERE BEAVERS HAVE LUGGED BRANCHES, DROPPED INTO THE CURRENT OF THE RIVER, OR EXCAVATED HOLES TO REACH THE TASTY ROOTS OF TAMARISK SEEDLINGS.

BEAVERS THEMSELVES ARE HARD TO SPOT, BUT THERE ARE SIGNS OF THEIR INDUSTRIOUSNESS EVERYWHERE.

COYOTES CALL OUT EARLIER IN THE EVENING, CELEBRATING THEIR HUNTS OR MAYBE JUST SINGING TO THE NIGHT.

MASSIVE MOBS OF CROWS THAT WINTER IN THE MIDDLE RIO GRANDE VALLEY, THEIR NUMBERS TOO BIG TO EVEN CALL MURDERS, ROOST AT NIGHT IN THE BOSQUE.

THEY SPEND THEIR DAYS SPREAD OUT ACROSS THE CITY FEEDING, AND THEN RETURN TO THE BOSQUE AT NIGHT, HUNDREDS OF THEM SETTLING INTO THE TREES.

WALK THROUGH THEIR RANKS AND THEY'LL YELL AT YOU.

DROP NUTS AND SMALL BRANCHES ON YOUR HEAD, TOO.

AND, OF COURSE, LATE FALL IS WHEN THE SANDHILL CRANES RETURN TO THE VALLEY FOR WINTER.

TODAY WE APPRECIATE THEIR PRIMORDIAL CALLS, AND THE CLUNKY GRACE OF THEIR LANDINGS IN THE RIVER WHERE THEY SHELTER FOR THE NIGHT AWAY FROM PREDATORS.

THEY'VE MIGRATED HERE FOR THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF GENERATIONS, THEIR HABITS AS CLEAR AS THE LAYERS OF LIMESTONE IN THE SANDIA MOUNTAINS, THEIR PATTERNS TIED INEXTRICABLY TO THE SWAY OF SEASONS.

TODAY WATCHING THE CRANES ALONG THE RIVER, IT'S SOMETHING TO IMAGINE THE BLESSING THEY MUST HAVE BEEN TO THE PEOPLE WHO LIVED ALONGSIDE THE RIO GRANDE FOR CENTURIES, TO THINK OF THEIR MASS ARRIVAL ALONG WITH SNOW GEESE PRECISELY AS THE WEATHER TURNS COLD AND HARVEST SEASON PASSED.

LIKE NEW MEXICANS, THE BOSQUE, THE RIO GRANDE, THEY ARE RESILIENT.

THIS RIVER HAS FLOWED FOR MILLENNIA.

THESE COTTONWOODS HAVE STOOD SINCE THE 1940S.

THE FOREST, THE WILDLIFE, HAVE ALL SURVIVED THE PRESS OF MORE AND MORE PEOPLE, MORE AND MORE DEMAND.

BUT AS THE REGION WARMS, AS THE REGION DRIES, AND EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING DEMANDS MORE WATER, WE ALSO NEED TO DEMAND MORE FOR THE RIVER, MORE FOR THE BOSQUE, AND REMEMBER THIS, TOO, IS OUR HOME.

FOR NEW MEXICO InFOCUS AND OUR LAND, I'M LAURA PASKUS.

Gene: WE SINCERELY HOPE THAT YOU’RE ENJOYING A TERRIFIC HOLIDAY WEEKEND AND AS ALWAYS WE THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED WITH US HERE ON THE SHOW.

AND, IF YOU DON’T ALREADY BE SURE TO FOLLOW AND LIKE US ON ALL OUR SOCIAL MEDIA CHANNELS.

THAT’S FACEBOOK, TWITTER, YOUTUBE AND INSTAGRAM.

WE’RE ALWAYS WORKING TO BRING YOU EXTRA CONTENT THERE, INCLUDING RECENT FACEBOOK LIVE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THE RETURN OF SPEED VANS HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE AND THE WORK SO FAR OF THE STATE’S FIRST EVER CITIZEN REDISTRICTING COMMITTEE.

AND THIS WEEK, WE ALSO HAD A TERRIFIC CONVERSATION ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF SHOPPING LOCAL THIS HOLIDAY SEASON.

WHILE YOU’RE THERE... LET US KNOW WHAT YOU’D LIKE US TO TACKLE IN AN UPCOMING EPISODE.

WE ALWAYS LOVE HEARING FROM YOU.

UNTIL NEXT TIME, THANKS FOR WATCHING.

WE’LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK… IN FOCUS.