always been favored over renting when# it comes to housing.

For generations,## the prevailing wisdom has been# that renting is wasting money.

But what about now, with a tough# real estate market characterized## by elevated listing prices and interest rates?

David Leonhardt has long covered this issue for# The New York Times on the economy called "Ours Was the Shining# Future: The Story of the American Dream."

David Leonhardt, thanks so much for being with us.

DAVID LEONHARDT, Author,# "Ours for a 30-year fixed somewhere between 6.5 and 7# percent, and a median U.S. home price of $420,000,## what is a prospective homebuyer to do?

Is# renting these days actually a better option?

DAVID LEONHARDT: For most people, it is a# better option.

That is if you don't already## own.

I'm not saying that most people should# sell their h you probably have a pretty good mortgage rate.

But for people who don't yet own a home and of renting have not looked this good in a long# time.

And I think -- I understand why people## have so long been down on renting.

There's# even been some shame associated with renting.

And I think it's important to say,# look, for most people right now,## who are trying to figure out whether to buy or# rent, renting is the smarter You will save money.

And there's a reason# there's so much of a sense that Americans## should never rent, which is, we have this# huge industry, the real estate industry,## that makes a lot more money from# selling homes than renting them.

And it helps to get out this# message that people should buy,## rather than rent, when, in# fact, many people should rent.

GEOFF BENNETT: On the other hand, David,# rents or sky-high the national median for a one-bedroom apartment## was roughly $1,500 a month.

In New# York Cit So isn't that throwing away money,## in the sense that you're not building# equity DAVID LEONHARDT: It's important to remember all# the ways that you also throw money away There is a very large fee, often in# the tens of thousands of dollars,## that goes to a real estate agent.

That's# throwing the money away.

You're paying the## bank huge amounts of interest, and the mortgage# interest deduction reduces that inte but it doesn't eliminate it.

That's throwing# away money.

It's giving it to a bank.

You have to do repairs when you own a home, often# repairs that don't really add ho use.

Like, if your roof is leaky and you# have to fix it, you have no choice but to do## that.

That's not a renovated kitchen.

It's just# throwing money away to keep you where you are.

And then, finally, there's the opportunity cost.## If you didn't buy a home, if yo you could have invested it in the stock# market.

You could have investe ways.

And so it's true that renting involves# throwing money away, b GEOFF BENNETT: Well, why are home prices so high# right now?

Because it strikes me that, with high## interest rates, that would or should suggest that# demand would be lower and that sellers would then## have to cut the price of the home in order# to drive up demand.

But that's not happening.

DAVID LEONHARDT: No, it's not.

An housing market is a bizarre market in which# psychology plays a really big role.

And what a lot of people do is, they say, I'm# not willing to accept less than a certain## price for their home.

Maybe they think about# the price they bought it for and they add on## the cost of all the repairs and renovations# they have done, or maybe it's a round nu But we have all done this ourselves,## or we have known family members# I'm just not willing to accept less than $350,000 And so what they do when they don't find# the demand for housing that they want,## when they don't get the offers that they# want, they pull their house off the market## and they think, I will put it back on# later.

And so housing ends up having## this really artificial quality in which# prices don't fall to meet reduced demand.

And that's where we are right now.

So,# if you're a would-be homebuyer right now,## you kind of have the worst of all# worlds.

Interest rates have gone way up,## but prices haven't fallen.

And so you# really have to pay a huge amount of## money to buy a home.

And that's exactly# why, for most people, again, not forever,## but in the short or medium term, renting makes a# lot of sense for a lot of people in the Northeast,## on the West Coast, in major markets like# Atlanta and Dallas and places like that.

GEOFF BENNETT: The worst of all worlds# is a really good way to describe it,## especially for would-be# first-time millennial homebuyers Looking at the 2023 census data, it shows# that 20 percent of men between the ages of## 25 and 34 live with their parents, and that's# a number that has ticked up since the 1980s.

What are some of the cultural costs# of this country's housing crisis?

DAVID LEONHARDT: So, it is -- it does make it## difficult for people to get# launched int I actually think multigenerational households# mu ch of human history and in many other places,# multigeneration households let younger people## take care of older people.

They allow# families to spend more time together.

But, obviously, if younger people want# to leave their house and they can't,## that's a problem because you want people# to do what they want to do.

And so what## we have seen is that we have a large amount# of generational inequality in our country.

I understand that older people# may have their own frustrations,## but older people have really had a lot of# benefits of th buy into the housing market when it was cheaper.# If they're in their 60s or 70s, they got to buy## into the stock market when it was much cheaper# than it's been over the last several decades.

And it's really been much harder for younger# people to get themselves established.

And high## home prices are another example of generational# inequality.

High home prices benefit older people,## at the expense of younger people, and so they# serve to aggravate generational inequality.

GEOFF BENNETT: David Leonhardt,## alwa DAVID LEONHARDT: Thanks for having me.