>> Not long ago, Caitlyn Jenner publicly denounced President Trump in the pages of The Washington Post, defying expectations one more time.

Caitlyn Jenner, this week on "Firing Line."

>> "Firing Line with Margaret Hoover" is made possible by... Corporate funding is provided by... >> 2015 was the year of Caitlyn Jenner.

After her stunning public transition, receiving the ESPY's Arthur Ashe Courage Award and becoming Glamour's Woman of the Year, Jenner's decision to reveal her authentic self was well-received, even by those who had idolized Bruce for decades.

In the three years since introducing herself as Caitlyn, ever the Olympian, she clears every hurdle of her renewed celebrity with ferocious determination and indomitable spirit.

In becoming her authentic self, she's also found her passion -- advocating for the rights of protections of trans people.

But her controversial revelation that she is a Republican, which many in the LGBTQ community find irreconcilable with her desire to be one of their champions, has challenged her standing.

Still, it is undeniable that coming out as a Republican has put her in the invaluable position to speak up for trans rights to those who need to hear it most -- conservatives.

I have seen this firsthand through my work with Ms. Jenner and the American Unity Fund, a conservative LGBTQ-advocacy organization of which I am the president.

Caitlyn Jenner... >> Yay!

>> ...welcome to "Firing Line."

>> Margaret is the best.

>> [ Laughs ] You're very nice.

>> We met two, two and a half years ago, something like that.

>> I reached out to you because when you came out not just as a trans woman but as a Republican... >> [ Inhales sharply ] You don't do that.

>> ...I, in my work in the LGBT-advocacy organization, recognized immediately that you were suddenly the most famous Republican in the world... >> [ Laughs ] >> ...but that also you might have a unique value proposition when it came to our advocacy issues.

But before we get to that, the first thing I want to ask you about is, since 2015 and your amazingly public transition -- the most high-profile transition of any trans person in history.

>> Right.

>> So, I think what people would like to know to begin with is, now that you've been Caitlyn for three years, are you happy?

>> [ Laughing ] Oh, my God.

There's nothing better in life -- to wake up in the morning and just be yourself all day.

I don't have any more secrets.

I don't have to carry two suitcases -- one for Bruce, one for Caitlyn.

I don't have to sneak around.

I don't have to lie to anybody.

I just wake up in the morning and be myself all day.

And it makes life so simple, but when I came out, I had never met another trans person.

And, boy, did I have a lot to learn.

I had a lot to learn about the community, about the issues because, honestly, I really didn't know anything, and, sure, I made some mistakes, especially at the beginning, when I thought, "You know, my heart's in the right place."

I got nothing but love in my heart, and all I want to do is make it better for the next generation.

>> Well, I want to talk about that because when you transitioned, the people who knew you most and best were people who knew you as Bruce.

>> Right.

>> And the generation that is most familiar with LGBTQ issues are Millennials and the Z generation, the people that are some of your youngest children's age.

>> Right.

>> They are, I think, predisposed to be favorable to this transition, but the majority of Americans who knew you previously and didn't know you from a reality TV show knew you from your iconic win in Montreal in 1976.

>> It was a good day.

>> They knew you from the front of the Wheaties box, for example.

>> It was a good day.

If you go back and look at the times -- 1976, it was our country's bicentennial year.

It was the highest-rated Olympic Games of all time, barring none.

I happened to come through with the performance that I was hoping for, broke the world record that day.

I am still very proud of those days.

>> There's something you've written about, and I've never asked you about this, is that the next day, in the privacy of your own room in the Olympic Village, you stood in front of the mirror with your gold medal around your neck and thought what to yourself?

>> "What did I just do?"

>> Did you feel like you were living a lie?

>> Oh, I've always felt like I was living a lie.

I thought to myself, "What the hell did you just do?

Did you take this character and build this character up so big that you're stuck with him for the rest of your life?"

Because that really didn't represent me or who I am.

And I thought, "What am I gonna do?

And now this character is so big, I'm stuck with Bruce."

And it was really scary and quite upsetting, and I thought about it a lot that day and then started building a career in television and the entertainment industry and buried myself into work and then started raising children.

>> So, fast-forward...

Right before your book came out, you had said to me -- you maybe said this to other people -- that you looked back on all of your experiences that led you to the point where you were able to transition.

It was not an easy... >> Yeah, what I have learned over the last three years is that everybody's journey is different in this community.

And for so many years -- I thought, in the '80s, I was gonna transition.

I thought, "I'm gonna do this before I'm 40 because I don't want to be an old chick, you know?

And I got to do this now."

And got to 40 -- After being on hormones for four and a half years, isolating myself from the world for six years, basically living in a house all by myself, I got to 39, and I couldn't do it.

I just couldn't go any further.

And about five months later, I met Kris when I decided, "I got to get back into life."

I was honest with her, you know, and I'm sure I downplayed it at the time.

And we hit it off, and for the next 23 years, we raised kids, but little Caitlyn was always still there.

When I finally got to the point in life where all my children were raised, I -- you know, Bruce had done just about everything.

There wasn't much left for him to do.

I had struggled with this my entire life and had my conversations with my children -- I'm a person of faith -- had my conversations with my pastor.

I thought, "Okay, number one, you can't do it unless you know it's the right thing to do for you, to live your life authentically."

You just don't even think about it unless you know that that is the right decision.

But in doing that, "Maybe this is the reason God put me on this Earth," I felt, that for me -- to see if I can make a difference in the world, to see if I can bring this issue of probably one of the most discriminated parts of our society and the most marginalized part of our society, which is the trans community -- and I can give you every statistic about murder rates, about suicide rates, and it's just horrible.

How can I bring that into the spotlight to try to make a difference?

>> Now that you're your fully authentic self... >> Here I am, yeah.

>> ...you're also your full authentic political self.

And, I mean, as we mentioned in the beginning, one of the most interesting moments for many people when you came out as trans was that you also announced that you're a Republican.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> Did you plan to do that?

>> No, I was actually asked the question, and, boy, I found out that it was much easier to come out as trans than it was to come out as being a Republican.

>> Were you always a Republican?

>> Yeah, I've always been on the Republican side.

>> Why?

>> Why?

My dad fought in World War II.

He landed on Omaha Beach.

I love the military.

I love a strong military.

I like less government instead of more government.

And I like a freer market, less regulations.

I look at is as the American people built this country -- the government didn't build this country.

But on social issues, I've always been very progressive.

>> You're pro-choice?

>> Oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Pro-choice.

>> Pro-LGBT freedom?

>> I really didn't understand LGBT issues until after I transitioned, and so, yeah, I had a lot to learn there.

>> So you say that it was -- >> But I am for marriage equality.

I'm for LGBT rights.

I'm for trans rights.

I'm for everything, baby.

>> As you know, "Firing Line" was on the air for 33 years, and it was hosted by William F. Buckley, who had a very prominent conservative who came out and then came on "Firing Line" to talk about being gay and being conservative, and I'd like to get your reaction to what he says on "Firing Line."

>> Okay.

>> Does that feel familiar to you?

>> Yes, it feels very familiar.

Yeah, things really haven't changed.

>> Is this the kind of backlash you got from the community for not being a liberal or a Democrat, presuming that, because you are transgender, there's no way you could be a Republican?

>> Yes, exactly the same thing.

And people think because you transition or you go through this that, all of a sudden, you're a different person.

I am, in so many ways, just living my life comfortably, but, in so many ways, I'm still the same person.

And it's the same with political views.

I'm still the same, but today I just try to see if I can use that, if I can use my being on the inside to try to make a difference with the Republican Party.

They need the most help.

I get it.

The Democrats do a better job when it comes to social issues, but the best thing that the Republican Party could do is to stay economically conservative, to be conservative over here, but they have to be more progressive when it comes to social issues.

>> I want to ask you, was it easier to be a Republican when you were a white man than as a trans woman?

>> Yes.

[ Laughs ] Much easier.

Yeah.

Yeah, nobody really questioned that, and then you move over, become a trans woman, but your political views -- that's one thing about transition, okay, that people don't understand and even I didn't understand when I first got it.

People think that, "Oh, my God, you transitioned.

Now all your views are gonna change, and you're gonna enjoy different things," and this and that.

My views haven't changed.

I just have learned a lot, you know?

>> And that's one of the criticisms of you, is that the LGBTQ community, of which you've become an advocate -- and I hear you talking about the economic struggles that trans women have, the safety struggles that especially trans women of color have, but the criticism of you is that you have all the privilege of a white, wealthy male and haven't had to endure the struggles or the challenges that trans women and trans people, especially on the economic side, have every day in terms of trying to afford hormones and get housing and keep their employment.

>> And I totally agree with them, okay?

I agree.

Okay, my transition is diff-- I have worked hard my entire life.

Now, did I have male privilege, "white male privilege" to do that?

Absolutely.

I did, okay?

I admit that, okay?

And that's one thing that a lot of people, I notice, have a hard time trying to grasp.

"Why would you leave all that strong, powerful, white male privilege, okay, and come over here to what society thinks is a weak female?

Why would you give all that up to come over here?"

And my only answer is, "That wasn't me over here.

That's me over here, okay?

That's where I come from."

But it's also given me a platform, so I like to take those types of things and use my position to my advantage to help the community.

>> What I've observed with you is, in some ways, I think that you're a bit of a secret weapon for the trans community with Republicans, because the kind of person that you've been speaking to, elected officials in Washington, many of whom are men and many of whom are older and didn't know any other trans person in their life, but they knew Bruce Jenner -- or at least they believed they knew Bruce Jenner because everybody knew Bruce Jenner.

And now they've seen your very public transition.

You give them a touchstone for this thing called transgender people.

What are you doing in Washington D.C.?

And who are you talking to, and what are you trying to achieve?

>> Okay, most of the things that I do, okay, are very quiet.

>> Why are they quiet?

>> Because I want to keep in open communication with the people that I'm talking to.

If I go in there and then I'm out promoting everything that I'm doing in Washington, D.C., I don't think they're gonna talk to me next time.

I'd rather keep it quiet.

>> Are you talking to elected Republicans?

>> I have sat down with -- I think it was like 15 evangelical Christian conservative Republican senators and congressman -- as we would call them in the LGBTQ community, "the enemy" -- and sat down for three hours over dinner, talked about faith, talked about all the things that I've gone through, talked with them about all the issues.

And because of that, I made a lot of alliances with a lot of people.

Now, I'm not gonna say who it is, because I have open conversations with them that really have worked out very well.

And, in fact, I remember one of the senators goes, "You know, when I was young and I was growing up and I saw what you did, I grew my hair out and wore kind of that Bruce Jenner haircut."

[ Chuckles ] And I thought -- You know, it's just funny things like that happen, but because of that, I've opened up dialogue.

>> So can I just ask you what kind of questions does a Republican senator or a Republican member of Congress ask you in private?

>> I don't think they just understand the issues.

They see the trans community, I think, as a very marginalized community, and it isn't.

They don't see there's the other side of the trans community.

I've met trans women or trans men who have built tremendous companies once they transitioned.

You know, once they get all that behind them, then they can kind of move on in life.

They don't see how the trans community is also a very vibrant part of our society -- vibrant part of the military.

I think of Trump and some of the things that he's done over the last year, which has been horrible, but he doesn't realize that he is the largest employer of trans people in the world.

>> Because he's the... >> He's the commander in chief of the military, and we literally have thousands and thousands of people in the military who are trans, and he's also -- with the federal government, there are thousands of people in the federal government that are trans.

>> I want to get back to Donald Trump, but let me ask you first, as an emissary to Republicans on trans issues, is there a policy objective that you're trying to achieve?

>> Yes.

This is what I want to do -- we need hard legislation on the books for equality in this country.

Recently, in Utah, we just had probably -- a state, by the way, it's a Republican legislature and a Republican governor -- put one of the best, most pro-LGBT legislation through.

>> And this is the fully comprehensive non-discrimination bill that was passed in Utah that was actually trans-inclusive and protections for transgender people.

>> It was a big success for us.

Also New Hampshire -- exactly the same thing.

>> And that was a Republican legislature and a Republican governor that added trans protections into their legislation.

>> Yes!

And we need to do more of that.

>> So, in the States, since 2015, there have been more than 300 laws that have been presented to legislatures that are anti-LGBT laws, but more than 111 anti-trans laws that have been considered at the state level.

And I know you've been active in some states, trying to connect and communicate with Republican legislators to defeat some of those bills.

>> Yes.

I've been very active in that and working with the American Unity Fund to find out exactly where these things are going on.

I've called governors.

I've tweeted about things.

I've gone places.

In North Carolina, which was the most ridiculous thing -- >> And North Carolina, for our audience who doesn't know, passed a bill, HB2, which prevented trans people from being able to use the bathroom of their identity that they identify as every day, forcing them to use the bathroom -- >> That says what's on their birth certificate, which is ridiculous.

>> Why is that so ridiculous?

How do you explain that to people?

When you go talk to Republican legislators, how do you explain that to them?

>> I say, "Lookit, first of all, there are trans people in your community.

We need to protect them as much as we do anybody else."

[ Sighs ] You look at these young trans people, especially trans girls and stuff like that, who are 12, 13 years old, and we're gonna tell them that they have to use the men's room?

Okay?

It's just not gonna work.

Or a trans guy -- the exact same thing.

Not causing any problems.

Trans people do not cause problems in bathrooms.

This is mostly about the teachers or the parents that don't know anything about this issue.

The kids are fine.

They could care less.

Trans people are not going in and causing any problems.

>> You have mentioned Donald Trump twice so far, and you had felt that, of the Republican candidates who were running for president, that there was a chance that he might not be the worst on LGBT issues.

>> I did at first, yes.

There was a girl, Jenna Talackova, at the Miss Universe pageant, which he owned.

Jenna was a trans girl.

She was in the Miss Canada pageant.

He totally supported her.

>> He allowed her to compete as a woman, and there was some question about this at the time.

>> Absolutely.

Very good for our community.

During the convention, he was the first Republican ever to mention LGBTQ on the podium to, by far, what I thought was one of the most rousing applause by all the people there.

It was a huge applause.

I thought, "This is good.

Okay, this is good."

Honestly, I don't know what happened when he got in there.

Next thing you know, three months after he's in there, he did the Title IX thing.

>> For the sake of our audience, just in case they don't know what happened, there had been protections and guidelines issued by the Department of Education and the Department of Justice that had been put in place by the Obama administration.

>> Yes.

Which was a good thing.

>> In your view, it was a good thing because it gave guidance to teachers and school districts across the country about how to handle transgender students.

>> Right.

>> And one of the first things you noticed and one of the first things that happened definitively is that Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump... >> Had a meeting.

That's what I hear.

>> ...rolled back that guideline.

>> And I was furious.

And why would they do something like that I just could not figure out.

>> That was the first thing for you that made you recognize that the Trump administration might not be friendly to LGBT people.

>> And was very openly -- >> How did you hear about that meeting?

>> Well, because he tweeted about it the next day, and then I started calling people and found out what was going on.

>> Donald Trump did something else on social media.

He announced that he was going to kick out transgender military members.

>> I was furious.

I said, "How can you do this?"

>> What did you do?

Did you say that to him?

What'd you do about it?

>> Well, the first I did is I started doing social media about this.

This is absolutely wrong.

I'm a huge supporter of the military.

They volunteer to do this.

They volunteer to go out there and protect me.

In the trans community, we have a big problem with job discrimination, okay?

Happens all the time.

I look at when the federal government says trans people can't be in the military.

That works its way down, so it just makes the job-discrimination side of it -- not only just the housing and this and that, but the job discrimination really works its way down.

It makes it more and more difficult for trans people.

>> It seems to me Donald Trump cares so much about celebrity.

Do you think, because he cares about celebrity, that hearing somebody advocate on behalf of trans issues from Caitlyn Jenner maybe has more sway over him than somebody who's not as famous as you are?

>> I certainly would hope so, and I work on those things, okay?

>> Did you express your dissatisfaction with the trans military ban?

>> Oh, yes.

>> You talked to Donald Trump about the trans military ban?

>> I cannot say.

I will not say or decline, because I keep those conversations very private.

But either posting on social media -- because I went after him big time on social media.

He certainly knows how I feel.

>> Can you tell us whether he's responded personally to you?

>> No, I'm not gonna say, because I keep all my conversations very quiet because that's the way I work.

At a point -- See, this is what we need, and I can't say this -- I'll say this 10 times on your show, okay, is we need hard legislation on the books, not presidential mandates.

I want equality on the books.

If you're an American, an American citizen, everybody's equal.

>> Do you feel like, with some of the most religious conservatives that you've spoken with that are also in positions of elected authority, that even if you haven't changed their minds, you've opened their eyes?

>> In some cases, yes, in some cases, no.

Mike Pence, when he was in Indiana, had some of the most anti-LGBT legislation out there.

So I go up to Mike Pence, and I tell him my little story about how I was in town, and I talked to all of these "evangelical Christians," and I basically said, "I would love to have that conversation with you."

>> What did he say?

>> He says, "You know what?

I would love that."

I even turned to his wife, and I said, "I would love to have you part of that conversation."

And she said to me, "Aw, don't you worry.

I'll be there."

I said, "Okay, I'm in."

For almost two years, year and a half, we tried to have that meeting and never gotten it.

And it shows what we're up against, you know?

This is not gonna be an easy fight.

I feel like we're 30 years behind the LGB side of of the community.

They've lear-- And you know what?

You have to learn a lot from them.

They never stopped fighting.

Let's take marriage equality.

They never stopped fighting.

Every time they lost something, they went right back into court, and they just kept fighting, fighting, fighting, fighting, till, eventually, the public came around.

And as far as trans issues, I think that's the same thing.

I'm gonna keep fighting for our community, I'm gonna keep trying to help out the best I possibly can, and in doing that, eventually, the rest of the population will come around, especially as the next generation comes up.

>> Even Mike Pence?

>> No, but he'll be gone.

[ Chuckles ] We just have to outwait him.

Honestly, I would hope he would come around.

>> There's hope for everyone.

>> I would hope he would come around.

Honestly, I would like to spend more time with them.

I am not one who, somebody who doesn't like you or this and that -- "Oh, I'm gonna shy away from that."

No, I'm right there.

Yeah.

I'm right in their face -- kill 'em with kindness.

Mike Pence would love me.

>> Caitlyn Jenner, thank you for coming to "Firing Line" and sharing your activism and your views.

>> And you know what?

We'll work together and we'll make a difference.

>> "Firing Line with Margaret Hoover" is made possible by... Corporate funding is provided by... ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ >> You're watching PBS.