>>> KQED THANKS OUR MEMBERS AND COMMUNITY PARTNERS FOR THEIR SUPPORT.

>>> TO BERNARD OSHER FOUNDATION, IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE FOR BAY AREA RESIDENTS THROUGH THE SUPPORT OF HIGHER EDUCATIO AND THE ARTS.

>>> TONIGHT, ON "KQED NEWSROOM," THIS EMPHASIS GO BAY AREA WITH PEOPLE AND BUSINESSES AIMING ANSWERS OF BETTER OPPORTUNITIES ELSEWHERE.

WE LOOK AT CHANGES IN THE BAY AREA'S DEMOGRAPHICS AND WORKFORCE.

>>> PLUS, WE LOOK AT LATE NBA LEGEND BILL RUSSELL'S LEGACY, ON AND OFF THE COURT IN THIS WEEK'S SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL.

COMING TO YOU FROM KQED HEADQUARTERS IN SAN FRANCISCO, THIS FRIDAY, AUGUST 5th, 2022.

HELLO, WELCOME TO "KQED NEWSROOM."

I'M IN FOR PRIYA DAVID CLEMENS, ANNA CLEMENTS.

TONIGHT, WE LOOK AT WHY PEOPLE IN CALIFORNIA LEAVE OR COME TO IT.

WE WILL START WITH A CASE STUDY.

LAST WEEK, THE MEAT PACKING GIANT, SMITHFIELD FOODS, ANNOUNCING, IT WILL CLOSE A FACTOR IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA.

THE REASON THEY GAVE, THE HIGH COST OF DOING BUSINESS HERE IN THE GOLDEN STATE CLOSE TO 2000 EMPLOYEES WILL LOSE THEIR JOBS IN FEBRUARY OF NEXT YEAR.

ALTHOUGH SOME COULD RELOCATE TO OTHER SMITHVILLE FACILITIES OUTSIDE OF CALIFORNIA ARE JOINING ME NOW, THE ECONOMIC CORRESPONDENT FOR "NEW YORK TIMES," REPORTING ON SMITHFIELD FOODS, AND WHAT THE STORY SAID ABOUT CALIFORNIA'S ECONOMY.

CURTIS LEE JOINS ME BY SKYPE FROM LOS ANGELES.

>> THANKS SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME TOO GREAT TO HAVE YOU.

SO, CURTIS, SMITHFIELD FOODS, IT'S A MEAT-PACKING PLANT WITH A LOT OF HISTORY TO IT.

YOU WROTE IN YOUR STORY, IT WAS ONCE A SITE-SEEING DESTINATION.

SET THE SCENE HERE FOR US.

HOW CAN WE UNDERSTAND WHY IT'S A BIG DEAL IN ITS CLOSING?

>> ABSOLUTE.

SMITHFIELD FOODS HAS KIND OF BEEN AN INSTITUTION HERE IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA FOR SEVERAL DECADES, BUT MANY PEOPLE HERE, IN THE L.A. AREA, KNOW IT AS PART OF OUR JOB.

IT'S A PLANT THAT WAS STARTED AND OPENED IN 1930, A SHORT DRIVE FROM DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES, AND THIS PLANT HAS KIND OF DEFINITELY BEEN AN INSTITUTION HERE, IN L.A., PRODUCING THE FAMOUS DODGER DOG FOR SEVERAL YEARS, FOR MANY DECADES, I SHOULD SAY.

AND IT'S REALLY BEEN A BIG EMPLOYER HERE, IN THE L.A. AREA, FOR BLUE-COLLAR, INDUSTRIAL WORKERS.YOU KNOW, AND IT'S KIND OF THIS VESTIGE OF THE INDUSTRIAL AREA OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, IN TERMS OF REALLY MANUFACTURING JOBS, FOOD PRODUCTION, AND, YOU KNOW, CURRENTLY, IT EMPLOYS 1800 PEOPLE HERE IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, AND YEAH, IT'S JUST REALLY HAD A LONG HISTORY HERE, IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA.

>> SO, SMITHFIELD EXECUTIVES HAVE SAID, THEY'RE LEAVING BECAUSE OF THE HIGH COST OF DOING BUSINESS IN CALIFORNIA.

WHAT EXACTLY ARE THEY REFERRING TO?

>> YEAH, SO, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

SO, SMITHFIELD, LIKE I SAID, HAS BEEN HERE AT THE PLANT FOR SEVERAL YEARS.

THE PLANT HAS BEEN AN INSTITUTION IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA.

THEY'RE BASICALLY SAYING, THE RECENT RISE IN COSTS OF DOING BUSINESS IN CALIFORNIA, FORCING IT TO CLOSE THE PLANT AND MOVE OPERATIONS TO THE MIDWEST.

THEY TALK ABOUT TWO THINGS, SPECIFICALLY.

THEY TALK ABOUT THE COST OF UTILITIES IN OPERATING THE PLANT THERE, AND THEY ALSO TALK ABOUT A STATE LAW THAT WAS PASSED IN 2018.

PROPOSITION 12, WHICH, YOU KNOW, REQUIRES THAT THE SALE OF PORK IN THE STATE COMES FROM PIGS THAT ARE ABLE TO HAVE MORE ROOM IN THE PENS THAT THEY'RE HOUSED.

BASICALY, IT'S VERY MUCH AN ANIMAL RIGHTS ISSUE, AND THEY'RE SAYING, YOU KNOW, THAT THESE TWO ISSUES, BASICALLY, HAVE JUST MADE IT TOO DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO REMAIN IN CALIFORNIA AND TO DO BUSINESS IN THE STATE.

>> THERE'S A QUESTION YOU POSED THAT AT THE HEART OF THIS STORY.

IS IT THE FAULT OF CALIFORNIA?

HAVE WE CREATED CIRCUMSTANCES IN THE STATE THAT MAKE IT HARDER FOR CERTAIN BUSINESSES TO SURVIVE?

>> WELL, THE QUESTION OF DOING BUSINESS IN CALIFORNIA HAS BEEN, YOU KNOW, A NARRATIVE THAT THROUGH THE GRAINED WITH TRACTION OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS.

THINK BACK TO LAST YEAR, TESLA RELOCATING HEADQUARTERS FROM THE BAY AREA TO TEXAS, ELON MUSK , SQUEEZING, TOO MUCH RADIATION IN THE STATE, AND IT'S HARD TO SCALE IN THE BAY AREA.

THIS HAS DEFINITELY BECOME A POLITICAL TALKING POINT.

AT TIMES, ALSO, LAST YEAR, THE HOOVER INSTITUTION AT STANFORD UNIVERSITY, A CONSERVATIVE THINK TANK RELEASED A REPORT THAT BASICALLY SAID, A LOT OF HEADQUARTERS ARE RELOCATING FROM CALIFORNIA, AND THE FIRST HALF OF 2021, ABOUT 30 OUT OF 70 HAD RELOCATED, THE NUMBER WAS THEN 60 PLUS HEADQUARTERS.

IT'S CERTAINLY A TALKING POINT OF SORTS, A POLITICAL TALKING POINT.

IN MY REPORTING, TALKING TO CALIFORNIA OFFICIALS, AND I TALK TO PEOPLE IN GOVERNOR NEWSOM EYE OFFICE, THEY BASICALLY SAY, NO, THIS NARRATIVE IS NOT BACKED UP BY FACTS.

RIGHT?

CALIFORNIA IS A STATE THAT HAD GROWING GDP.

THAT HAS OUTPACED THE NATIONAL GDP IN RECENT YEARS.

ALSO, IT'S STILL, BY FAR, THE DATA TECH HUB OF THE COUNTRY IN THE WORLD IN MANY RESPECTS, AND THE FACTS JUST DO NOT MATCH THE REALITY.

>> IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THIS IS PART OF A DIFFERENT KIND OF A TREND, OF MANUFACTURING WITH UNION JOBS GIVING WAY TO HIGH- TECH JOBS?

>> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION, BECAUSE A LOT OF THESE MANUFACTURING JOBS HAVE BEEN DECLINING ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

RIGHT?

HERE, IN CALIFORNIA, YOU HAVE SEEN THE DECLINE OF THE MANUFACTURING JOB, YOU KNOW, SINCE 1990, WHEN THE STATE LOST 1/3 OF THE MANUFACTURING JOBS.

THAT HAS OUTPACED THE NATIONAL AVERAGE OF 20 A%, IN TERMS OF THE LOSS OF MANUFACTURING JOBS ARE DUE NO, THESE ARE DEFINITELY COLORED JOBS.

THERE IS THE QUESTION THAT'S RAISED, ARE THERE OPPORTUNITIES FOR THESE BLUE-COLLAR JOBS IN COMPARED TO THE TECH JOBS, THE MUCH MORE HIGHLY-SKILLED -- I GUESS -- JOBS THAT ARE OUT THERE, IN THE BAY AREA, HERE, IN LOS ANGELES.

IT'S CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, A QUESTION BEING RAISED.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, THERE'S DEFINITELY DIVISIONS ON THE ISSUE.

>> YOU'VE TALKED TO MANY WORKERS AT THIS PLANT.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE WORKERS TELLING YOU?

>> THE WORKERS ARE DEEPLY CONCERNED ABOUT LOSING THEIR JOBS NEXT YEAR, IN THE EARLY 2023.

AT THE FORMER JOB PLANT, THERE ARE 1800 WORKERS THERE.

MOST OF THE WORKERS ARE LATINO.

MOST ARE OVER THE AGE OF 50, YOU KNOW, AND THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAD, YOU KNOW, REALLY INVESTED THEIR LIVES INTO THIS PLANT.

PEOPLE HAVE WORKED HERE FOR SEVERAL DECADES WHO HAVE, YOU KNOW, WERE ON THE FRONT LINES DURING THE PANDEMIC, WHO DIDN'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO WORK FROM HOME, WHO WERE GOING IN, EVERY DAY, IN 2020, AND HAVING TO YOU KNOW, WORK THROUGHOUT THE PANDEMIC, WHO GOT SICK, WHO ALSO BROUGHT THE VIRUS HOME AND GOT THEIR LOVED ONES SICK.

I TALKED TO ONE MAN, MARIO MELENDEZ, TELLING ME, HE HAD GOTTEN SICK AT THE BURNING PLANT THERE, AND HE BROUGHT THE VIRUS HOME TO HIS BROTHER AND HIS MOTHER, WHO PASSED AWAY FROM COVID-19, AND HE WAS DEVASTATED AFTER WORKING AT THE PLANT FOR MORE THAN A DECADE.

HE HAS PUT A LOT ON THE LINE FOR THE FARMER JOHN SMITHFIELD PLANT THERE, IN VERNON.

I SHOULD NOTE, THIS PLANT HAS ALSO, YOU KNOW, SPACED A LOT OF FINES FROM CALIFORNIA REALTORS DURING THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC FOR BASICALLY NOT PROVIDING A SAFE SPACE FOR PEOPLE TO WORK, OR FOR PEOPLE TO SPACE OUT AND SOCIAL DISTANCE, AND TO REALLY BE ABLE TO WORK DURING THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC.

YOU KNOW, THEY FACED A LOT OF FINES.

>> CURTIS, YOU PLAN TO KEEP FOLLOWING THE STORY.

RIGHT?

WHAT WILL YOU BE KEEPING AN EYE ON, AS THE SITUATION UNFOLDS?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I WILL BE COVERING THIS IN THE MONTHS AHEAD, LEADING UP TO THIS CLOSURE IN EARLY 2023.

I WANT TO HEAR MORE FROM THE WORKERS.

WHAT ARE SOME OPPORTUNITIES THAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT AFTER THIS PLANT CLOSES?

WHAT EXACTLY THE CITY AND THE COUNTY, THE STATE, LOOKING TO DO TO HELP THESE WORKERS THE UFC W, WHICH REPRESENTS THE PLANT, BASICALLY SAYING, THEY'RE TRYING TO FIND NEW JOBS FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO USE THEIR JOBS, AND ALSO TRY TO FIND A BUYER FOR THE PLANT THERE IN VERNON, SOMEONE THAT CAN POSSIBLY BE A NEW COMPANY THAT COMES IN.

SO, THERE'S A LOT OF MOVING PARTS TO THIS RIGHT NOW, AND WE WILL BE WATCHING THAT.

>> GREAT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US, COURTEOUSLY, "NEW YORK TIMES," ECONOMIC CORRESPONDENT.

>> THANKS SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> WE HAVE JUST TALKED ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A COMPANY SAYS, IT'S TOO HARD TO DO BUSINESS IN CALIFORNIA.

NOW, LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS TO INDIVIDUALS, FAMILIES SAYING, IT'S TOO HARD TO LIVE IN CALIFORNIA.

>> DO YOU THINK YOU ARE HERE TO STAY?

HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT LEAVING?

>> DEFINITELY THOUGHT ABOUT LEAVING.

I WOULD LIKE MORE SPACE, AND FOR THE AMOUNT OF MONEY FOR THE SPACE YOU BUY HERE, IT'S -- I DON'T REALLY SEE ANY TYPE OF NEAR FUTURE WHERE I CAN AFFORD WITH YOU IN A PLACE WITH A YARD OR MORE THAN TWO BEDROOMS.

>> WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THE COST OF HOUSING IN THE BAY AREA?

>> IT'S CRAZY.

IT'S REALLY CRAZY.

I DON'T SEE HOW PEOPLE CAN MANAGE TO LIVE HERE.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE A ROOMMATE TO LIVE HERE, IN SAN FRANCISCO.

IT'S UNBELIEVABLE, REALLY UNBELIEVABLE.

>> BUT IT'S A COMPLEX SITUATION.

THERE ARE PLENTY OF PEOPLE COMING TO THE BAY AREA.

ONE STUDY FOUND THAT MORE THAN HALF OF STARTUPS IN THE UNICORN CATEGORY, VALUED AT OVER $1 BILLION, FOUNDED BY IMMIGRANTS.

JOINING ME NOW TO DISCUSS WHO'S COMING, WHO'S GOING, AND WHY, KQED'S BAY AREA POLITICAL EDITOR, JEREMY OWENS, AND CEILINGED DIRECTOR OF EQUITABLE ECONOMY, AND DEALING STAFF.

SO, BURNING QUESTION.

ARE PEOPLE LEAVING THE BAY AREA?

>> YEAH.

THEY'RE ESPECIALLY LIVING IN SAN FRANCISCO.

I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THIS LONG-TERM, FROM THE END OF THE GREAT RECESSION, BACK IN 2008- 2009, THE CHANGE IN THIS BOOM, THE MOBILE BOOM VS.

THE PC BOOM IN THE LATE '90s, SAN FRANCISCO WAS THE CAPITAL OF THAT.

SILICON VALLEY KIND OF SWALLOWED THE REST OF THE BAY AREA IN A WAY IT DID NOT IN THE LATE '90s.

THERE WERE A FEW HIGH-PROFILE PEOPLE WHO LIVED THERE.

IN THIS BOOM, ONLY PEOPLE CAME AND LIVED IN SAN FRANCISCO TO WORK IN BIG COMPANIES.

THOSE SELF-MADE COMPANIES GOT SAN FRANCISCO UP AND ALL THIS.

WHAT WE'RE SEEING NOW IS IT GOT TOO OVERHEATED IN THE 2010s TOO MANY PEOPLE MOVED TO SAN FRANCISCO WITH TOO MANY PEOPLE PUTTING IN WITH SEATTLE NOW PUSHING OFF, AND PEOPLE ARE LEAVING CALIFORNIA, AND ESPECIALLY THE YOUNG PEOPLE THE LAST DECADE.

>> ONE OF THE REASONS THEY ARE GETTING FOR THE BAY AREA EXODUS?

>> WE JUST HEARD, EVEN IF YOU HAVE THE MONEY, IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO BE MONEY TO SALARIES, IN TECH, TO PROVIDE THAT.

YOU STILL GET SOMETHING THAT'S VERY, VERY SMALL.

I WILL GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT, JEREMY.

IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT SAN FRANCISCO.

WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF THE SAME TRENDS ALL OVER THE BAY AREA, INCLUDING THE SOUTH BAY, WHERE THERE WERE HUGE POPULATIONS OF PEOPLE WHO WORK IN TECH, MAKING THE MONEY THAT SHOULD BE ABLE TO AFFORD THEM A HOUSE WHERE YOU COULD SAY, RAISE A FAMILY, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE COMING TO THE DECISION, ESPECIALLY DURING THE PANDEMIC, IT'S NOT WORTH IT, ESPECIALLY IF OUR COMPANY WILL ALLOW US TO EITHER WORK REMOTELY FROM A PLACE YOU CAN SKI ON YOUR COFFEE BREAK, YOU KNOW, OR WORK AT ONE OF THE MANY OFFICES FOR SOME OF THESE LARGEST COMPANIES AROUND THE WORLD.

IF YOU CAN LIVE IN A PLACE WHERE YOU CAN HAVE A BIGGER PLACE, WHY WOULDN'T YOU DO IT?

>> YEAH, IT GETS HOT EVERY GENERATION FOR PEOPLE WHO COME OUT HERE.

IT WAS THE SAME IN THE END 90s AND 2000s.

20 OR 30 SOMETHINGS CAME OUT HERE, MADE GOOD MONEY, AND DID A LOOK TO BUY A HOUSE WHERE THEY WANT TO BUY A HOUSE.

NOT TO SEE THE MARKET INCREASE, I DON'T HAVE THAT KIND OF MONEY.

I'M ABOUT HERE IN 2000 AND I WOULD SAY, MAYBE 1/3 TO 1/4 OF THE FIRST FRIENDS I MADE IN THE DECADE OF MY 20s, STILL HERE.

RIGHT?

SOME OF US ARE FORTUNATE TO FIND A HOUSE AND OF YOUR, ANSON WAS MOVE AWAY.

THAT IS THE CYCLE THAT THE BAY AREA GOES THROUGH EVERY DECADE OR SO.

THIS TIME, IT SEEMS, PEOPLE ARE LEAVING EARLY.

>> RIGHT.

>> THEY'RE NOT WAITING UNTIL THE 30s OR 40s TO GET OUT, BECAUSE THEY SEE, POSSIBLY, THE PANDEMIC HAS GIVEN THEM THE KNOWLEDGE THAT THEY CAN'T GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

SO, THEY WORK THESE COMPANIES.

>> MOVING IN, OR MOVING OUT?

>> NOT JUST ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO CAN AFFORD TO BUY A HOUSE YOU, OR PEOPLE WHO DECIDE TO LEAVE HER THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO STAY, WHO ARE FORCED TO MOVE WITHIN THE REGION.

SO, THERE'S A LOT OF DISCUSSION, A LOT OF ANXIETY ABOUT THESE 50,000 -- WE THINK LARGELY TECH WORKERS, LOST OVER THE FIRST YEAR OF THE PANDEMIC.

I THINK THE ANXIETY IS, IN SOME WAYS, MISPLACED, BECAUSE THERE ARE MORE THAN 2 MILLION OTHER WORKERS STILL HERE, WHO ARE ALSO FACING HOUSING PRESSURES, LONG COMMUTE TIMES, AND ARE BEING FORCED TO RELOCATE WITHIN THE AREA, BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE A CHOICE TO MOVE TO BOSTON OR SEATTLE.

THEY DON'T HAVE THE RESOURCES OR CAREER OPTIONS TO BE UP TO PICK UP AND MOVE OUT OF THE REGION.

WE ALSO NEED TO KEEP IN FOCUS WHO HIS LEFT EAR, WHO HAS BEEN HERE, AND IS ALSO BEING DISPLACED AND MOVED AROUND BY SOME OF THE PRESSURES WE ARE SEEING.

>> SO, WHERE ARE THEY GOING?

SOME OF THE PEOPLE NOT EARNING HIGH-TECH INCOMES, OR MAYBE EARNING A MINIMUM WAGE?

WHERE DO THEY GO?

>> WHAT WE'VE SEEN, WITHIN SAN FRANCISCO, WE'VE SEEN, ACTUALLY, TREMENDOUS GROWTH IN THE WHITE, HIGH-INCOME WHITE PUBLISHING, OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS, AND A HANDFUL OF NEIGHBORHOODS, MOSTLY THE EASTERN PART OF THE CITY FROM SOUTH BEACH DOWN, ESPECIALLY INTENSELY IN BAY VIEW AND HUNTERS POINT.

WE HAVE SEEN A LARGE GROWTH IN THOSE POPULATIONS THROUGHOUT ALL OF OAKLAND, AND IN SOME PARTS OF THE SOUTH BAY THEN, THE INVERSE, WE HAVE SEEN THESE CORE CDs LOSING SIGNIFICANT PORTIONS, PARTICULARLY IF THEY'RE A BLACK PUBLISHING.

YOU SEE BLACK PUBLISHING GROWTH IN THE OUTER SUBURBS, THE FAR PARTS OF THE REGION.

WE KNOW THAT 1 IN 10 BLACK WORKERS IN THE REGION HAVE A COMMUTE OVER 90 MINUTES EACH WAY.

THAT'S THREE HOURS OF UNPAID TIME A DAY JUST TO GET TO WORK, BECAUSE THE JOBS ARE STILL LOCATED IN THE CITIES, BUT HOUSING IS UNAFFORDABLE, AND RESOURCES ARE CONCENTRATED THERE.

THE ONLY PLACES THAT FOLKS CAN AFFORD TO LIVE EVEN GIVE IT A TRY, YOU KNOW, OUR IN THESE FURTHER-FLUNG AREAS, WITH LESS STRUCTURE, LESS RESOURCES AVAILABLE TO SUPPORT THEM.

>> & LIKE SACRAMENTO HAS BECOME VERY POPULAR, WHICH IS CRAZY THERE.

STOCKTON AND TRACY, FURTHER OUT ON 580, EVEN MORE POPULAR.

THAT IS VERY WHITE.

IF YOU HAVE DRIVEN UP 580, WITH COMMUTE TIMES, YOU KNOW HOW LONG YOU CAN SIT THERE.

TRAVELING MULTIPLE PATHS, ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE HAVE TROUBLES WITH THAT, TRY TO FIND AN AFFORDABLE PLACE TO LIVE.

>> "SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE," THEY ANALYZED TECH DATA AND FOUND, IN GENERAL, PEOPLE LAVING SAN FRANCISCO TEND TO BE WEALTHIER.

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT LONG COMMUTE TIMES, LOSS OF ACCESS TO GOOD TRANSIT, THAT ALSO TAKES A TOLL ON THE ECONOMY.

DOESN'T IT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

SO, I UNDERSTAND THE CONCERN THAT FOLKS HAVE IF WE'RE LOSING TECH JOBS AND TECH WORKERS.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR THE ECONOMY?

BUT THERE ARE PLACES WE CAN LOOK WITH AN EVEN BIGGER IMPACT.

SO, WE ANALYZE THE ECONOMIC COSTS OF RACIAL INEQUITIES IN WAGES AND IN EMPLOYMENT.

THAT COST THE BAY AREA, NINE- COUNTY BAY AREA, 50% OF OUR GDP IF WE COULD CLOSE THOSE GAPS.

WE SEE TREMENDOUS SEGREGATION HAPPENING.

WE KNOW THAT SEGREGATION IS AT LEAST AS BAD, IF NOT WORSE THAN IT WAS A DECADE AGO, A GENERATION AGO.

WE KNOW THAT, IN CHICAGO, FOR EXAMPLE, SEGREGATION ALONE COST THE ECONOMY ABOUT $5 BILLION A YEAR.

FINALLY, WE HAVE ANALYZED THE ECONOMIC IMPACTS OF UNAFFORDABLE RENTS AND FOUND THAT IF NO ONE IN THE BAY AREA WERE PAYING UNAFFORDABLE RENTS, THAT WOULD GIVE CONSUMERS ABOUT $6 BILLION MORE IN PURCHASING POWER EACH YEAR.

SO, THERE ARE A LOT OF WAYS OUR ECONOMY IS BEING IMPACTED BY THIS THAT IS NOT JUST YOUNG WORKERS TAKING THEIR WEALTH AND MOVING TO ANOTHER TECH HUB.

>> WHAT MAKES THE BAY AREA A GOOD PLACE TO LIVE, A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE FEEL COMFORTABLE AND ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT LEAVING THEIR HOMES IN WHATEVER CONDITION THEY MIGHT BE?

RESTAURANTS HAVE TROUBLE HIRING PEOPLE.

SCHOOLTEACHERS, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN'T STICK AROUND AFTER SCHOOL TO COACH THE SOCCER LEAGUE.

THERE ARE SO MANY WAYS IN WHICH OUR NEIGHBORHOODS HAVE BECOME SPLIT, A TALE OF TWO CITIES, TWO TOWNS, TWO VILLAGES, AND IT'S NOT PLEASANT FOR ANYONE.

>> YET, IT LOOKS LIKE SILICON VALLEY IS IN NO DANGER OF LOSING THE PRIME POSITION AS A TECH HUB.IT'S NOT ABOUT TO GET THAT SPOT GIVEN UP TO CITIES LIKE AUSTIN OR SEATTLE, DESPITE THAT THERE ARE SOME PRETTY HIGH- PROFILE COUNTRIES ON HEADLINES.

ONE?

>> I WILL TELL YOU, BECAUSE A LOT OF THEM STILL HAVE MONEY COMING HERE.

BAY AREA STILL LEADS IN THE AMOUNT OF CAPITAL RAISED.

LOOKING AT THE COMPUTER THAT LEFT, ORACLE, HPE, STILL WITH MASSIVE COMPUTER.

THE ORACLE BUILDING ON THE PENINSULA IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE.

MAYBE PEOPLE DON'T KNOW YET, STILL TRYING TO FIND OUT ABOUT THAT, BUT THE FACT IS THAT IS AN OLDER COMPANY THAT IS GROWING.

THE SMALL COMPANY IS GROWING ARE STILL HERE.

THE COMPANIES THAT GREW IN THE PAST 10 OR 15 YEARS ARE STILL HERE.

FACEBOOK AND APPLE AND GOOGLE HAVE THE GIANT PALACES IN THE SOUTH BAY, WHERE THEY'REGOING TO HAVE EMPLOYEES STOCKED FULL OF THEM.

TECH JOB GROWTH IS STILL HAPPENING.

RIGHT?

ESPECIALLY TECH WORKERS WITH SOFTWARE DEVELOPERS, THEY'RE NOT IN DANGER.

EVEN IF THEY DO GET LAID OFF, PEOPLE WILL BE DESPERATE FOR THAT WORK.WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE JANITORS, THE SHUTTLE DRIVERS, THE LOWER-INCOME PEOPLE WHO ARE PART OF THAT ECOSYSTEM.

A LOT OF THESE GIANTS IN THE SILICON VALLEY, THE CAMPUSES HAVE CONTINUED TO PAY THEM DURING THIS PANDEMIC, EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVEN'T HAD EMPLOYEES THERE.

WHEN THEY LOOK AT CUTS NOW, AS THE ECONOMY SAUERS, WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO LOOK?

THEY'RE NOT LOOKING AT SOFTWARE BUILDERS.

THEY'RE NOT LOOKING AT HIGH- INCOME EARNERS.

THEY'RE LOOKING AT THEIR LOW- INCOME EARNING, YOU KNOW, WHAT THEY CONSIDER REPLACEABLE.

MOST OF THEM ARE ON CONTRACT.

THEY ARE NOT ACTUAL EMPLOYEES.

>> THEY'RE NOT EVEN WORKING FOR THE COMPANY.

>> RIGHT.

>> THEY'RE LOOKING FOR SUBCONTRACTORS.

I THINK THERE'S ALSO ANOTHER THING WE SOMETIMES LOSE SIGHT OF, WHICH IS THAT THERE'S NOT JUST ONE TECH MOVE HAPPENING IN THE BAY AREA, THERE ARE TWO.

THERE'S REGULAR TECH, IF YOU WILL, AND THEN THERE'S HEALTH TECH, BIOTECH, ALL KINDS OF COMPANIES.

YOU SEE THEM, PRIMARILY, ON THE NORTH END OF THE PENINSULA.

REALLY, AS YOU ARE SAYING, MANY OF THESE COMPANIES ARE SO BIG NOW THAT THEY HAVE MULTIPLE OFFICES, EVEN WITHIN THE BAY AREA.

WE SEE LOTS OF DC MONEY COMING TO THE BAY AREA.

TEXAS, BC MONEY?

I DON'T THINK I CAN SQUEEZE MY FINGERS TOGETHER ENOUGH TO SHOW YOU HOW SMALL THAT KIND OF MONEY IS.

SO YEAH, IF TEXAS IS TAKING SOME OF THE GROWTH, I SAID, GOD BLESS.

GOOD LUCK.

YOU KNOW?

BUT WE'RE IN NO DANGER OF LOSING OUR PRIVACY HERE, IN THE BAY AREA, AS THE HEART OF SILICON VALLEY.

PEOPLE COME, PEOPLE GO.

PEOPLE COME TO REPLACE THEM.

ONE OF THE THINGS YOU HAVE BEEN TRACKING WITH POLICY LINK IS THE RACIAL AND ETHNIC MAKEUP OF THE BAY AREA.

WE HAVE SOME GRAPHICS HERE THAT ARE BASED ON SOME OF THE DATA THAT THE ORGANIZATION HAS PUT TOGETHER.

IF YOU WOULD MIND BREAKING IT DOWN FOR US A LITTLE BIT.

>> FOR SURE.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE LOOK AT THROUGH THE BAY AREA EQUITY IS THE RACIAL COMPOSITION OF THE REGION.

WE SEE THAT, IN 2000, THE BAY AREA WAS ALREADY ABOUT 50% PEOPLE OF COLOR, WHICH IS WELL AHEAD OF NATIONAL TRENDS.

THE U.S. IS PROJECTED TO BECOME A MAJORITY PEOPLE OF COLOR NATION IN ABOUT 2044.

YOU CAN SEE WE ARE WELL AHEAD OF THAT.

HALF OF THE POPULATION IN 2000 WAS WHITE.

ABOUT 1/5 WAS ASIAN OR PACIFIC ISLANDER.

ANOTHER 1/5 WAS LATINX.

THEN 7%, BLACK RESIDENTS, 4%, MIXED ANOTHER.

WE HAVE SEEN A LOT OF GROWTH IN THE LAST CATEGORY.

IT'S A MUCH YOUNGER RACIAL ETHNIC GROUP THAN THE OTHERS.

IT'S GOING REALLY QUICKLY.

>> FAST FORWARD 20 YEARS.

HOW HAS IT CHANGED?

>> THEN, THE MOST RECENT DATA WE HAVE AVAILABLE, 2019, WE SEE THE WHITE POPULATION IS JUST ABOUT 39% NOW.

THAT'S NOT BECAUSE THE AREA IS DECLINING OVERALL.

WE HAVE SEEN THE POPULATION WITH SIGNIFICANT GROWTH OVER THE TIME PERIOD.

THE RAPID DIVERSIFICATION, THOUGH.THE OAKLAND, SAM CISCO AND SAN JOSE AREAS ARE SOME OF THE MOST DIVERSE IN THE COUNTRY WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE INDEX WE NOW HAVE.

JUST UNDER 40% OF THE PUBLISHING IS WHITE.

WE HAVE SEEN SIGNIFICANT GROWTH AMONG ASIAN AND PACIFIC ISLANDERS AROUND.

MORE THAN 1/4 OF THE PUBLISHER.

ANOTHER 1/4 IS LATINO.

WE HAVE SEEN SOME DECLINE IN THE BLACK POPULATION.

MORE SO, WE HAVE SEEN MOVEMENT, IN TERMS OF WHERE BLACK COMMUNITIES LIVE IN THE BAY AREA.

A LOT OF THEM COME OUT OF THE CORE CITIES FROM SAN JOSE, OAKLAND, OUTER REGIONS OF THE AREA.

>> IS THIS DIVERSITY REFLECTED IN THE TECH SECTOR?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

IN THE SOUTH BAY, IF YOU THINK OF IT IN TERMS OF THE U.S. CENSUS DISTRICT, I WOULD SAY, THE POPULATION IS HALF ASIAN, AND PRIMARILY, SOUTH ASIAN, AND ALSO RECENT CHINESE IMMIGRANTS.

SO, THERE IS A LOT OF DIVERSITY IN SOME RESPECTS, BUT OBVIOUSLY, WE STILL FAIL TO SEE, AMONG THE WORKFORCES, ESPECIALLY IN THE RAREFIED SOFTWARE ENGINEERING PART OF TECH.

>> AND OF MANAGEMENT.

>> AND MANAGEMENT, YEAH.

>> AND FOR THOSE WHO DO PROVIDE INFORMATION, JOURNALISTS HAVE TRIED FOR YEARS TO GET ACTUAL RACIAL AND GENDER MAKEUPS OF THE WORKFORCES IN THESE COMPANIES.

SOME DO PROVIDE, SOME DON'T.

RIGHT?

WHAT WE DO SEE FROM THOSE WHO DID DO IS MANAGEMENT IS VERY WHITE AND VERY MALE.

THERE ARE A LOT OF ASIANS.

YES.

THE GENDER MAKEUP IS SHOCKING, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF WOMEN IN MANAGEMENT.

TO BE SURE, THIS IS NOT JUST A SILICON VALLEY PROBLEM.

I BELIEVE THAT'S THE FORTUNE 407, LESS THAN 5% OF THE CEOs ON THE LIST ARE WOMEN'S AT THIS POINT.RIGHT?

SO, THAT'S AN ISSUE WITHIN THERE.

BUT DEFINITELY LATINOS.

DEFINITELY BLACKS ARE NOT BEING SEEN BY THE NUMBERS THAT WE SEE THEM IN THE BAY AREA AND THOSE TECH COMPANIES.

>> RIGHT.

IT WOULD BE GREAT TO HAVE BETTER INFORMATION FROM INDIVIDUAL COMPANIES, BUT WE CAN ALSO LOOK AT THIS FROM AN INDUSTRY AND OCCUPATION LINES.

WE JUST SAW THAT 27% OF THE POPULACE IN THE REGION IS ASIAN OR PACIFIC ISLANDER, BUT 52% OF FOLKS WITH COMPUTER AND OTHER OCCUPATIONS, AMONG THE QUARTER, 1/4 OF LATINOS IN THE BAY AREA, MAKING UP 5% OF THE OCCUPATIONS.

BLACK WORKERS, 2%.

THERE IS DEEP, DEEP OCCUPATIONAL SEGREGATION THAT GOES HAND-IN-HAND WITH RESIDENTIAL SEGREGATION WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, AND ARE MUTUALLY REINFORCING MECHANISMS.

>> SO, TALK TO SOMEONE WHO RECENTLY LEFT THE BAY AREA.

NOW, SHE LIVES IN CHICAGO.

THE DIVERSITY OF THE BAY AREA IS PART OF WHAT ATTRACTED HER TO LIVING HERE.

SHE'S SAD TO GO.

LET'S TAKE A QUICK LISTEN TO WHAT SHE HAD TO SAY.

>> WELL, I THINK THE PANDEMIC KIND OF AGGRAVATED SOME OF OUR CONCERNS ABOUT THE BAY AREA.

FIRST OF ALL, WE WERE KIND OF UNSURE ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO AFFORD A HOME.

SO, THAT WAS DEFINITELY A CONCERN THAT WE HAD.

AND THEN, I THINK THERE WAS ALSO SOME HESITANCY ABOUT THE GROWING HOMELESSNESS CRISIS, AS WELL AS FEELINGS OF BEING UNSAFE OUT IN PUBLIC.

>> SO, LEO WORKS AT A CREATIVE SKILLED INDUSTRY, BUT SHE'S NOT A TECH.

SHE WORKED FOR SAN FRANCISCO RADIO STATION, NOW PRODUCES PODCASTS IN CHICAGO.

IS SHE AN EXAMPLE OF THE DILEMMA THAT'S FACING MANY MIDDLE-CLASS BAY AREA PEOPLE, FAMILIES HERE, THAT SHE FEELS PUSHED OUT?

>> WELL, YOU GET THE CHOICE BETWEEN LEADING OR TAKING OVER A HOME THAT A LOWER INCOME PERSON PROBABLY NEEDS, AND FORCING THEM OUT.

IT'S A HORRIBLE DECISION TO MAKE, HONESTLY.

IT IS THE GOVERNMENT OF THE BAY AREA FORCING US TO MAKE THAT DECISION, BECAUSE THEY HAD NOT BUILT ENOUGH HOUSING.

THEY FIGHT TO NOT BUILD HOUSING, EITHER AFFORDABLE OR JUST REGULAR HOUSING.

AND SO, THERE'S NOT ENOUGH FOR THESE PEOPLE WHO COME OUT HERE.

THEY DISPLACE LOWER-INCOME PEOPLE, AND IT'S A HORRIBLE DECISION TO MAKE BECAUSE, IF YOU TAKE -- PAY MORE FOR A HOUSE THAN IT'S WORTH AND DISPLACE SOMEBODY WHO IS PROBABLY FROM DIFFERENT GENERATIONS, THAT'S A STEP BACK.

>> THAT INSIGHT SEEMS CRITICAL.

RIGHT NOW, THE MUNICIPALITIES THROUGHOUT THE REGION ARE WORKING ON HOUSING ELEMENTS, DECIDING WHERE TO BUILD HOUSING, AND WHAT LEVELS OF AFFORDABILITY.

IT COULD NOT BE A MORE DIRE SITUATION.

WE HAVE LOOKED AT THE MEDIAN COST -- JUST RENTING, NOT EVEN PURCHASING A HOME -- IN ALL SENSES TRACKS IN THE BAY AREA, AND FOUND NOT A SINGLE ONE WHERE THE MEDIAN RENT IS AFFORDABLE TO A BLACK MEETING SOLD OR INCOME OWNERS.

NOT ONE AFFORDABLE TO LATINO INCOME HOUSES.

NOT EVEN TO WHITE MEDIAN INCOME OWNERS WITH $118,000 A YEAR.

>> WILL HAVE TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT MORE SOON.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, RACHEL MEYERS AND JEREMY OWENS OF MARKETWATCH, AND ADVOCATES FOR THE POLICY LINK.

>> SUNDAY NIGHT, THE BAY AREA AND THE BASKETBALL WORLD LOST AN ICON.

>>> THIS WEEK, SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL CELEBRATES BILL RUSSELL.

RAISED IN OAKLAND AND AN ALUMNI OF THE UNIVERSITY OF SAN FRANCISCO, HE WAS WIDELY REGARDED AS THE GREATEST CHAMPION THE SPORT HAS EVER SEEN.

BILL RUSSELL'S BASKETBALL ACCOMPANIMENTS ARE UNMATCHED.

BACK-TO-BACK NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP WITH USF IN 1955 AND '66.

AN OLYMPIC GOLD MEDAL THE SAME SUMMER, AS CAPTAIN OF THE U.S. MEN'S BASKETBALL TEAM.

11 NBA CHAMPIONSHIPS, 13 SEASONS WITH THE BOSTON CELTICS.

FIVE NBA MOST-VALUABLE PLAYER AWARDS.

THE FIRST BLACK COACH IN MAJOR AMERICAN SPORTS HISTORY.

THE LIST GOES ON.

YET, RUSSELL'S LEGACY OFF THE COURT IS WHERE HE REALLY LEFT A MARK.

HE WAS ACTIVE IN THE BLACK POWER AND CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENTS WHEN EVERTS WAS MURDERED IN 1963, RUSSELL TRAVELED TO MISSISSIPPI TO HELP CONTINUE THE CIVIL RIGHTS WORK.

MONTHS LATER, HE JOINED DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING IN THE MARCH ON WASHINGTON.

IN 1967, HE WAS ONE OF A DOZEN PROMINENT AFRICAN AMERICANS WHO WENT TO CLEVELAND TO STAND BY MOHAMMED ALI'S SIDE, AS HE REFUSED THE VIETNAM WAR DRAFT.

RUSSELL'S LIFETIME OF WORK WAS RECOGNIZED BY PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA WITH A MEDAL OF FREEDOM IN 2011.

YOU WILL REMEMBER BILL RUSSELL FOR HIS INFECTIOUS LAUGH AND WINNING SPIRIT.

THAT'S THE END OF OUR SHOW FOR TONIGHT.

YOU CAN FIND "KQED NEWSROOM" ONLINE OR EMAIL US AT KQED.ORG.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

WE WILL SEE YOU NEXT FRIDAY NIGHT.

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.