>>> WITH MORE THAN 60 YEARS OF DOING THIS, CALVIN TRILLIN HAS A NEW BOOK OUT.

IT'S A COLLECTION OF THE BEST PIECES FROM HIS CAREER.

HE JOINS WALTER ISAACSON TO SHARE SOME OF HIS FAVORITE ANECDOTES.

>> THANK YOU.

CALVIN TRILLIN, WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

>> THANK YOU.

NICE TO BE HERE.

>> CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR NEW BOOK.

IT HAS THAT ROLLICKING HUMOROUS FEEL THAT YOU HAVE HAD THROUGHOUT YOUR CAREER.

THERE'S A SERIOUS STRAND TO IT.

YOU TALK ABOUT STARTING OFF AS A REPORTER IN THE SOUTH DURING THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT IN 1961.

YOU SAY, IF THAT HADN'T HAVE HAPPENED, YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE STAYED A REPORTER.

EXPLAIN WHY THAT WAS SO IMPORTANT TO YOUR CAREER.

>> PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU ARE JUST STARTING OUT, IT'S HELP IF IF YOU GET KNOWLEDGE ON ONE SUBJECT.

IN THIS CASE, IT HAPPENED TO BE AN IMPORTANT SUBJECT, THE DESEGREGATION STRUGGLE IN THE SOUTH.

THE CONFIDENCE YOU GET FROM KNOWING THAT WHAT'S ON THE PAGE IS SOMETHING THAT NOT EVERYBODY KNEW AND THAT YOU KNOW A LITTLE MORE ABOUT IT BY JUST WRITING ABOUT IT CONSTANTLY.

IN THE SOUTH, I WAS IN ATLANTA.

OCCASIONALLY, I WROTE ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE, ABOUT A FOOTBALL COACH OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

USUALLY, I WROTE ABOUT RACE.

I THINK THAT'S VALUABLE FOR A YOUNG REPORTER.

>> DESPITE THE FACT YOU STARTED BY COVERING THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, YOU SAID YOU NEVER BECAME THAT INTERESTED IN POLITICS.

YOU WANTED TO COVER AMERICA WITHOUT BEING ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHEN TRIED TO COVER CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS.

EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT YOU DID THROUGHOUT YOUR CAREER TO KEEP YOUR FINGERS ON THE PULSE OF FUN ST STORIES IN AMERICA.

>> FOR 15 YEARS I DID A PIECE FOR "THE NEW YORKER" EVERY THREE WEEKS.

IT'S ODD, BECAUSE MAGAZINE REPORTERS WOULD SAY, HOW DO YOU KEEP UP THE PACE?

NEWSPAPER REPORTERS WOULD SAY, WHAT ELSE DO YOU DO?

DIDN'T SEEM LIKE A FULL-TIME JOB TO THEM.

I THOUGHT THAT -- I REMEMBER MY SISTER WHEN WE WERE KIDS, I WAS VERY INTERESTED IN BASEBALL.

SHE SAID, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU CARE ABOUT BASEBALL.

THEY ARE ALL THE SAME EXCEPT FOR THE SCORE.

I GOT TO THINKING A LITTLE BIT THAT WAS TRUE OF POLITICS.

PARTICULARLY AS WE ARE SEEING N NOW.

80% OR 90% OF THE COVERAGE IS WHO IS GOING TO WIN.

SOMETHING WE ALL WILL KNOW THE NIGHT AFTER THE ELECTION.

IF ALL THE REPORTERS DEFECTED TO VENEZUELA, WE WOULD STILL KNOW IT THE NIGHT AFTER THE ELECTION.

IT SEEMED TO ME LESS INTERESTING THAN STORIES ABOUT REGULAR PEOPLE, ORDINARY PEOPLE, IF MY COLLEAGUES WILL FORGIVE ME, REGULAR PEOPLE RATHER THAN THEM.

>> ONE WAISTS SOF THE WAYS YOU IT WAS THROUGH FOOD.

YOU LOVED GREAT LOCAL RESTAURANTS.

A WEEK AGO I WENT DOWN HERE TO NEW ORLEANS.

I THOUGHT OF YOU.

YOU USED THE RESTAURANTS AS A WAY OF UNDERSTANDING COLORFUL PEOPLE.

TELL ME ABOUT THIS ONE.

>> IT WAS SAID THAT -- THE LEGEND IN NEW ORLEANS WAS THAT THE ORIGINAL WAS AL CAPONE'S CHEF.

THAT REALLY WASN'T TRUE.

THEY DID COME FROM ONE OF THOSE SUBURBS AROUND CHICAGO WHERE FUNERALS ARE ATTENDED BY FBI PEOPLE IN CARS WITH CAMERAS.

AL CAPONE -- HE WASN'T AL CAPONE'S CHEF.

WHEN SOMEBODY DID A REVIEW OF THE RESTAURANT, THEY SAID, I DON'T CARE WHAT THEY SAY, BECAUSE I CAN'T READ.

THAT WAS A GREAT PROTECTION FOR A RESTAURANT PROPRIETOR.

THEY STUCK TO WHAT THEY WERE DOING.

I WAS FOND OF IT.

>> I WILL MENTION THAT I WAS A REPORTER WHO A STORY WHEN THEY SAID, DON'T WORRY, I DON'T READ.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

I HAD FORGOTTEN THAT.

IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE STORY, OF COURSE.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.

WE CUT YOU OUT FOR SPACE.

>> YEAH, SPACE REASON.

>> A COUPLE WORDS TOO LONG.

>> YOU CALL YOUR BOOK "THE LEDE."

YOU SPELL IT THE WAY WE WOULD SPELL IT IN THE NEWSPAPER.

I WANT TO READ YOU WHAT I THINK MAY BE YOUR FAVORITE.

YOU PUT IT IN THE BOOK.

IT'S FROM A LOUISIANA NEWSPAPER.

I WILL READ IT.

MAYBE YOU CAN PARSE IT FOR ME.

A VETERINARIAN PRESCRIBED ANTIBIOTICS MONDAY TO A CAMEL THAT LIVES BEHIND A PARISH TRUCK STOP AFTER A FLORIDA WOMAN TOLD LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS SHE BIT THE 600 POUND ANIMAL'S GENITALIA AFTER IT SAT ON HER WHEN SHE AND HER HUSBAND ENTERED ITS ENCLOENCLOUS ENCLOSURE TO RETRIEVE THEIR DEAF DOG.

>> I LOVE THAT PARAGRAPH.

ONE OF THE THINGS I'M PARTICULAR LY ENTRANCED WITH IS THAT IT'S ONE SENTENCE.

HE MANAGES TO GET THAT STORY -- WHEN MY FRIEND JAMES SEND IT TO ME, AT FIRST I COULDN'T READ IT WITHOUT BREAKING OUT LAUGHING.

I'M FINALLY ABLE TO DO THAT.

THE DEAF DOG IS WHAT GOT ME AT THE END.

IT SEEMS TO COME OUT OF LEFT FIELD SOMEWHERE.

I THOUGHT THAT WAS A GREAT LEDE.

YOU DIDN'T EVEN HAVE TO READ THE STORY.

YOU COULD -- I IMAGINE D THE FLORIDA WOMAN AND HER HUSBAND, THE FLORIDA MAN, AND SAYING, HERE, FIDO.

BUT THE DOG IS DEAF.

CAN'T HEAR.

ALSO THE FACT THAT NOBODY TALKS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO THE WOMAN BEING SAT ON BY A 600 POUND CAMEL.

I THOUGHT IT WAS -- I GUESS IT REMAINS MY FAVORITE LEDE ANYBODY EVER WROTE.

>> SOME OF THE GREAT PIECES IN THIS BOOK ARE PROFILES OF COLORFUL, LEGENDARY JOURNALISTS.

LET ME THROW A COUPLE OUT.

WHAT ABOUT RUSSELL BAKER?

>> RUSSELL BAKER IS A HERO OF MINE.

THE INTERESTING THING IS THAT HE WROTE BOTH SERIOUS COLUMNS AND HUMOROUS COLUMNS.

HE DIDN'T HAVE TO LABEL THEM.

IT SORT OF BECAME OBVIOUS AS YOU WENT.

I THINK I MENTIONED WHEN RUSSELL WAS LIVING UPTOWN, HE WAS WALKING DOWN THE STREET, SIDEWALK, AND A POTATO FELL FROM A HIGH WINDOW IN ONE OF THE BIG BUILDINGS AND JUST MISSED HIM.

HE WROTE A COLUMN ABOUT HOW IT WOULD FEEL TO BE KILLED BY A POTATO FALLING FROM A RESIDENTIAL BUILDING.

IT WOULD BE TERRIBLE.

EVEN YOUR TRENDS WOULD GET A LITTLE SMILE OUT OF IT.

ONE TIME I WAS HAVING TROUBLE THINKING OF A COLUMN.

I SAID, I THINK I WILL TAKE A WALK.

MAYBE A POTATO WILL FALL NEAR ME.

MY WIFE SAID, RUSSELL HAS DONE THE POTATO COLUMN.

THAT'S IT.

>> THERE'S STICKY FINGER NOVASKI IN THE BOOK.

TELL ME ABOUT HIM AND HOW YOU GAVE HIM THAT NICKNAME.

>> WELL, WHEN HE ASKED ME TO WRITE A COLUMN FOR THE NATION, I SAID, HOW MUCH WERE YOU THINKING ABOUT PAYING FOR EACH COLUMN?

HE SAID, SOMETHING IN THE HIGH TWO FIGURES.

>> THIS IS VICTOR, THE EDITOR -- >> THE EDITOR OF "THE NATION."

HE SAID, WE HAVE BEEN PAYING 65.

I SAID, THAT SOUNDS LIKE THE MIDDLE TWO FIGURES TO ME.

HE HAD A MAGAZINE WHICH PAID EVEN LESS THAN "THE NATION."

I SENT HIM A PIECE AND THEY SAID THEY WERE PUBLISHING IT.

THEY SENT ME A BILL.

"THE NATION" WAS AN IMPROVEMENT.

WHEN I WROTE A POEM -- I WAS INSPIRED BY JOHN SUNUNU.

I LOVE THAT NAME SUNUNU.

I LOVE THE FACT HE THOUGHT HE WAS THE SMARTEST GUY IN THE ROOM.

I WROTE A POEM CALLED, IF YOU KNEW WHAT SUNUNU AND SENT IT TO VICTOR.

HE SAID, WOULD YOU LIKE TO DO ONE OF THESE EVERY ISSUE?

HE WAS WILLING TO PAY ME THE SAME AS THEY PAY ME FOR A COLUMN, EVEN THOUGH A POEM WAS SHORTER.

I SAID, IT'S $100 COMING IN, RAIN OR SHINE.

THEN, OF COURSE, I REALIZED THAT OTHER PERIODICALS PAID POEMS BY THE LINE, LIKE "THE NEW YORKER KYORKER YORKER."

I WAS GETTING $100.

IF I WROTE A FOUR-LINE POEM ABOUT LLOYD BEN SON, IT WAS THE MAN IS KNOWN FOR QUO PRO QUIDNESS.

IN TEXAS, THAT'S HOW PEOPLE DO BUSINESS.

IT'S MORE THAN "THE NEW YORKER."

>> HOW YOU HAVE SEEN THE PERCEPTION OF JOURNALISTS CHANGE?

>> I THINK JOURNALISTS ARE MORE RESPECTABLE NOW.

I THINK -- >> IS THAT A GOOD OR BAD THING?

>> PROBABLY BAD.

I THINK NOW IF SOME REASONABLY SUCCESSFUL BUSINESSMAN IS TOLD THAT HIS DAUGHTER IS ABOUT TO MARRY A REPORTER, I DON'T THINK HE TRIES TO INTERFERE AT THIS POINT.

I THINK ANY TIME YOU HAVE TOO MUCH TO PROTECT, IT SORT OF TAKES AWAY FROM HOW CANDID YOU ARE.

I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY NOT A GOOD THING.

I THINK ONE OF THE WAYS IT CHANGED IS JOURNALISTS HAVE CHANGED IS THAT THERE ARE FEWER, OR MORE IF YOU COUNT BLOGGERS AND PEOPLE IN THE BASEMENTS.

IN THEIR UNDERWEAR, BOXER SHORTS, DOING BLOGS AND THAT.

THERE ARE MORE JOURNALISTS THAN THERE EVER WERE IF THAT'S THE CUTOFF.

>> THE BOOKENDS THE WAY YOUR CAREER BEGAN, WITH THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT.

THERE'S A WONDERFUL PICTURE OF YOU IN 1961 WITH JOHN LEWIS IN THE BIRMINGHAM BUS STATION.

TELL ME, WHAT WAS IT LIKE BEING IN THE BIRMINGHAM BUS STATION AS A YOUNG REPORTER INTERVIEWING A JOHN LEWIS COVERING THE FREEDOM RIDES?

>> IT WAS EXCITING, OF COURSE.

AT LEAST ONCE OR TWICE SCARY.

I THINK I WAS TOO DUMB TO KNOW HOW SCARY IT WAS.

ONE OF THE THINGS ON THE FREEDOM RIDES IS CLAUDE SITTONS FROM "THE NEW YORK TIMES" WAS COVERING.

HE WAS IN THE SOUTH FOR QUITE A WHILE.

HE IS ANOTHER PERSON WHO I THOUGHT OF AS A MODEL REPORTER.

ONE OF THE DIFFICULTIES, WHICH HE SAW BY BEING JUST SCRUPULOUS ABOUT EVERYTHING, WAS THAT IT WAS HARD TO TREAT THE SIDES EQUALLY.

THERE'S NO REALLY MORAL EQUIVALENCE OF THE MAN WHO WANTS TO VOTE AND THE MAN WHO BURNS HIS HOUSE DOWN BECAUSE HE WANTS TO VOTE -- BURNS THE OTHER GUY'S HOUSE DOWN.

I SAY IN THE BOOK, IT'S NOT LIKE COVERING THE MICHIGAN/OHIO STATE GAME.

ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU REALLY CAN'T BE ON ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER IF YOU ARE A REPORTER.

>> YOU WRITE ABOUT COVERING DURING THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT RUBY BRIDGES.

A FEW BLOCKS FROM HERE IN NEW ORLEANS.

A 6-YEAR-OLD, I THINK SHE WAS IN THE EARLY '60s.

DESEGREGATING THE SCHOOL THERE.

I THINK YOU MET HER AGAIN 50 YEARS LATER.

WHAT WERE YOUR FEELINGS ON THAT, THE COVERAGE OF HER AT THE TIME AND THEN SEEING HER 50 YEARS LATER?

>> WELL, ONE OF THE OTHER ASPECTS OF COVERING THINGS IN THE SOUTH IS PEOPLE HAD TO MAKE REALLY SERIOUS DECISIONS ABOUT -- RUBY BRIDGES' PARENTS HAD TO DECIDE IT WAS OKAY TO SEND HER TO THIS SCHOOL EVEN THOUGH PEOPLE WERE GOING TO BE YELLING OBSCENITIES AT HER, AND SHE'S ONLY 6 YEARS OLD.

IT WAS NOT ONLY HER COURAGE BUT THE COURAGE OF HER PARENTS.

WHEN I MET HER 50 YEARS LATER, I SAID, IT'S REALLY NICE SEEING YOU ALL GROWN UP.

AS I WAS SAYING BEFORE, IT'S COVERING REGULAR, NORMAL PEOPLE WHEN THEY ARE IN IRREGULAR AND NOT NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES.

>> WOULD YOU SAY ABOUT THAT -- YOU SAY, I WATCH THESE ORDINARY PEOPLE HAVING TO MAKE MOMENTOUS MORAL DECISIONS.

>> YEAH.

THAT IS TRUE.

AN IMMIGRANT OWNER OF A DINER THAT WAS SUDDENLY FACED WITH A SIT-IN AND WHETHER HE WAS GOING TO SEAT THEM, WHICH HE WANTED TO DO BECAUSE HE SYMPATHIZED WITH THEM, BUT DOES THAT MEAN THE END OF HIS BUSINESS AND NOT HAVING THE SUPPORT THEY NEEDED?

THOSE ARE BIG DECISIONS MADE BY EVERYDAY PEOPLE.

>> CALVIN TRILLIN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU, WALTER.