(upbeat music) - [Announcer] This is a production of PBS Charlotte.

- This week on "Unspun," What happens next as President Biden ends his campaign for reelection, and Donald Trump brings his campaign right here to Charlotte.

Can Kamala Harris recapture momentum for the Democrats?

And how does Harris versus Trump shape up right here in North Carolina?

I also have the top five major changes that will occur in the presidential campaign after a week of trouble and turmoil.

"Unspun" is next on PBS Charlotte.

(intense music) In today's America, welcome to the Spin Game.

Believe me, I know.

I'm Pat McCrory.

When I was governor and mayor, I played the spin game, I was played by the spin game, but aren't we all done being spun?

Let's take the spin out of the world we're in here on "Unspun."

Good evening, I'm Pat McCrory and welcome to "Unspun," a show that tells you what politicians are thinking but not saying.

Boy, what a difference a week makes.

There were exactly seven days between the assassination attempt on Donald Trump and Joe Biden's decision to quit his campaign for president.

Seven days that changed everything, right?

Well, maybe not.

Republicans wondered if Trump's near-death experience would change Trump himself into a kinder, gentler candidate.

Well, here's what we saw at Trump's rally in Charlotte this week.

- I was supposed to be nice.

(crowd laughing) They say something happened to me when I got shot.

I became nice.

(crowd laughing) And when you're dealing with these people, they're very dangerous people.

When you're dealing with them, you can't be too nice.

You really can't be.

So, if you don't mind, I'm not gonna be nice.

Is that okay?

(crowd cheering) They want me to be nice.

- And while Democrats hope to change the race for president by changing candidates, will voters really see a difference?

Here's Kamala Harris in Fayetteville.

- Do we want to live in a country of freedom?

- [Crowd] Yes!

- Compassion?

- [Crowd] Yes!

- And rule of law?

- [Crowd] Yes!

- Or a country of chaos?

- [Crowd] No!

- Fear?

- [Crowd] No!

- And hate?

- [Crowd] No!

- So how will all these campaign changes affect us right here in North Carolina?

Joining us now is Brad Crone.

He's a veteran democratic political strategist based in Raleigh with 35 years of experience managing campaigns all over the Southeast.

Brad's also the president of Campaign Connections, a North Carolina political consulting firm.

Brad, it's great to have you on here on "Unspun."

- Thank you for having me.

- So much has changed in the last two weeks politically.

What's the biggest change that's gonna impact North Carolina politics?

We've had the assassination attempt, we've had Biden resigning, and we've had Harris as the VP pick.

How does that impact the Democrats' chances in North Carolina?

- Pat, I've been to Ringling Brothers Circus, I have been to the state fair, I've been to a hog killing in Johnston County, and I have never seen anything like the politics we've witnessed over the last two weeks.

I mean, it's just been an absolute tornado of activity, and what it's done, I believe, Pat, is energized both bases deep, the Republican base with Trump's attempted assassination and Biden dropping out.

For the Democrats, the one thing to really note is that the Democrats went from a death march with Biden on the ticket and saying that he was going to continue to be on the ticket to his withdrawal and the withdrawal stimulating energy, excitement, and enthusiasm.

An example, $251 million in 48 hours for Kamala Harris to raise absolutely unprecedented numbers.

1.1 million donors, many of them, over 60% of 'em, are new donors for the Democrats.

So the base for the Democrats really energized.

- So behind the scene real quick, behind the scenes during the last two months, especially after the debate, behind the scenes were the Democrats hoping for a change without saying it because they needed to be respectful to the president?.

Were they hoping for a change?

- Clearly, Pat.

Listen, and you really saw the concern at the top of the ticket with Josh Stein's campaign, with Rachel Hunt's campaign, and with Jeff Jackson's campaign, because the fact when Emerson College released their poll last week and it had Trump up nine points, there was pure panic breaking out behind the scenes with the Democrats because they knew for certain that if Trump wins the state by five points or six points, the governor's mansion's in jeopardy, Mark Robinson would win, Hal Weatherman would win the lieutenant governorship, and more than likely Dan Bishop would win the attorney general's position, so the Democrats were clearly supportive of Biden dropping out.

Now they had to be delicate, they had to be gentile, but there was a big gasp of relief when Biden announced on Sunday that he was getting out.

And here's the back end of it.

If the Democrats can remain competitive in the state where the race is a point, point-and-a-half, as you know from 2016, Trump won the state by 3.25% and Cooper won by 10,000 votes.

So the Democrats really do think that if you keep it super close, then they've got a shot at being competitive in the top three Council of States.

If Biden had not dropped out, probably the only Democrat remaining was going to be Elaine Marshall on the Council of State, so, clearly big, big relief for the Democrats.

- So another big thing going on is Governor Cooper is being considered as a VP candidate.

Behind the scenes, do you think it's a real option versus Shapiro and the Arizona senator and the Wisconsin governor and others?

Is this a real thing that could happen right here in North Carolina?

- No, I think that he's on the short list.

I would say he's probably on the top four with Shapiro, the governor from the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, Mark Kelly from Arizona, Roy Cooper, and possibly J.

B. Pritzker.

Also, I hear that the Secretary of Transportation, Pete Buttigieg, is on the list as well.

The FBI is doing background checks on the governor at this point in time.

He is being vetted.

The interesting thing, the backside of that story, Pat, is that Roy and Kamala have been very good friends since they served together as attorney generals.

So they have a relationship.

It is both political and personal.

She knows him.

And Roy comes out of central casting for the Democrats from the standpoint that he comes from Eastern North Carolina.

He's risk-averse.

He is this former Sunday school teacher, Morehead scholar.

He clicks all the boxes for the Democrats and he's-- - He's very careful and strategic in what he says.

I think it's a great strength of his.

- Totally.

- So one of the things that I assume Harris is gonna be considering in this pick with Arizona, with Michigan, with Wisconsin, with Pennsylvania, is whoever they pick, can they at least carry their own state unlike Al Gore could do in Tennessee?

Can Roy Cooper carry North Carolina or do you really think it'll make much of a difference?

- Well, that's gonna be the big question mark.

The interesting thing for the Democrats is that Roy's never lost an election in the state of North Carolina.

- [Pat] Believe me, I know that.

(laughs) - From his days entering the State House in the early 1980s, the state Senate runs, his attorney general runs, his gubernatorial campaigns, he has never lost an election in the state of North Carolina.

And can he get Democrats energized?

The interesting dynamic that I see about Roy Cooper is that he doesn't have the Jim Hunt political network that the Hunt machine had in the seventies and again in the nineties.

But what Roy does have in the state is a donor network that is able to generate a whole bunch of campaign cash, and the presidential campaign may be interested in that.

I don't know if you can believe in North Carolina though.

- Let me interrupt you real quick.

The difference to a Jim Hunt in comparison is Jim Hunt running statewide could win an election.

People vote differently.

The swing voter votes differently on a federal election, as I've learned, than they do a state election.

So could the same thing apply to Roy Cooper where statewide he gets a lot of support until he moves to the federal level?

- Yeah, and Jim Hunt saw that in 1984 with the Jesse Helms race.

You saw that in your primary race.

Clearly, the question's going to be, will Kamala be able to excite those independent, unaffiliated voters in the wraparound counties, in the suburban counties, in towns like Monroe and Thomasville, Burlington, Clayton, in Fuquay-Varina and Jacksonville.

That's going to be the real big question mark.

And will she be able to defend her record on inflation and immigration?

Does Roy add to that equation?

That's going to be a real big component to that.

- In the remaining minute or so, the governor's race.

Stein obviously had to be concerned.

Robinson was not at the rally in Charlotte this past week.

What do you see there?

Is it Robinson didn't want to be attached to Trump, or Trump doesn't want to be attached to Stein, 'cause you know the history of politics.

Sometimes Cooper didn't even want to be attached to Obama during certain times.

I didn't want to be attached to Bush in '08.

It's a unique dynamic, isn't it?

- It truly is a unique dynamic.

It's intriguing to me with Robinson being such an endorser and supporter of Trump that he would not make the visit.

I would assume that he had some type of scheduling conflict.

That race, Pat, is going to be super close.

It will be just as close as the race that you faced in 2016.

It may be even closer than that.

I think it will be very, very narrow and could go either way at this point in time.

I think that it's intriguing in the sense that Robinson's making his case largely about the economy, and Stein and the Democrats want to make it a campaign about social issues, in particular, women's reproductive rights.

So it will be interesting to watch as we move forward.

The real dynamic will be what the unaffiliated voters do in the I-85 corridor from Charlotte to Raleigh.

- Brad, you gave us a real good insight, and I really appreciate you being on the show, and we're gonna follow up to see if some of your predictions and analysis came true.

- Look forward to it.

- It's time now for PBS Charlotte's Jeff Sonier to take "Unspun" on the street to hear what you're thinking about what's next in the race for president.

- Yeah, we're here in Charlotte at Donald Trump's first campaign event since Joe Biden dropped outta the campaign.

And, not surprisingly, well, Trump's not the only one here at the Coliseum who's talking about it.

- As you know, three days ago we officially defeated the worst president in the history of our country, (crowd cheering) crooked Joe Biden.

- Did you expect that it would be Trump versus Harris instead of Trump versus Biden?

- Absolutely not.

But we kind of saw the writing on the wall.

We know that the man is not well mentally and that is their only go-to right now.

- I think it'll make Donald Trump stronger, and I think that he'll gain more supporters from the chaos in the Democratic.

- It was interesting to watch the machine of the Democratic Party choose their candidate the way they did.

It'll be interesting and I think this year is just a special political science story for generations to come.

(intense music) - Together we will win North Carolina in an epic landslide.

We're way ahead in the polls.

(crowd cheering) - Well, I think it'll be a fairly tight election.

I don't know if it'll be a landslide.

It would have to take a lot of people to change over to Trump, which probably won't happen.

- Do you think Mr. Trump will run a different campaign now that he's running against a different opponent?

- Oh, yeah.

I think he has to change it up a bit, right?

He'll have to change the optics, so, yeah, he will change the optics.

How he'll change 'em I do not know.

- Well, I believe you cannot take a bullet for democracy and not have your intensity and fierceness of the message change, right?

- Yeah.

We're also seeing tighter security here at the Coliseum compared to earlier Trump rallies here in the Charlotte area.

Of course, this particular event, only the second Trump rally since the attempt on his life up in Pennsylvania.

Pat?

- Thanks, Jeff.

So what do you think about the changes in the presidential race?

Email us your thoughts to unspun@wtvi.org.

(intense upbeat music) Okay, tonight on our top-five countdown, we've got the five major changes in the presidential campaign after the Trump assassination attempt and the Biden decision to quit.

So what are the five things that I predict are gonna happen in the next several weeks after these two major events?

Well, number five.

Trump will suddenly be the old guy.

You know, during the past several months, the Republicans have been going after Biden and going, "You're too old, you're too old."

Now all of a sudden the Democrats are re-pivoting and going to the Republicans, "You're the old guy now."

It's an amazing change in dynamics.

Number four.

Retail politics will be limited due to security.

Well, the Secret Service hearings were a disaster, and now the Secret Service head just resigned.

So what's gonna happen?

Well, I'll tell you what I think is gonna happen.

First of all, there's gonna be very few, if any, outdoor events and there'll be fewer events.

And for those events, they'll be inside like right here in Charlotte.

Number three.

VP choices could help or hurt both parties.

History tells us that VPs really don't have an impact on campaigns.

However, think about Sarah Palin and the decisions and the things she said about, "I can see Russia."

Little comments for a VP candidate that hurt a campaign can impact a very close campaign.

Win or lose, a VP can have more of a negative impact than a positive impact on a campaign.

Number two.

Both candidates will ignore the deficit.

The deficit is the number one political issue that politicians don't want to talk about.

It's in the millions and trillions of dollars, and yet there's no easy answer.

All the easy answers are not politically viable.

You'll lose the campaign if you give them the real answers.

They're not gonna talk about the deficit.

And number one.

This is the one that really disturbs me and should disturb everyone.

Dark money super pacs will control the messaging, and, by the way, media stocks will soar because there'll be so much dark money in this campaign, there'll be commercial after commercial after commercial on network TV, on the Internet, you name it.

They'll have so much money to spend, but it's gonna be run by dark money organizations that the actual campaigns by law cannot control.

(intense upbeat music) PBS Charlotte's Jeff Sonier joins me now for "Unspun, One-on-One."

Well, Jeff, not much going on.

(laughs) - Yeah, just a quiet week for us.

(laughs) These questions come from the week's headlines and also from our topic this week as well.

I ask 'em and you answer 'em, and that's why we call it one-on-one.

I wanna follow up on something you spoke with Brad Crone about just a few moments ago in your interview with him.

But first, let's take a look at an interview I did at the Trump rally this week with the chairman of the National Republican Committee.

Let's take a look.

How important is that photo op with the president and the candidate for governor side-by-side on stage?

- Well, I think it's important for any candidate really that wants to succeed in North Carolina to let the voters know that they support President Trump, that they stand with President Trump.

And so, you know, President Trump really is gonna drive the ticket here and he's gonna drive turnout here, so I think it's an important shot for him.

- So you've got the national chairman saying that Robinson's gonna be there on stage with the president and that's so important for his campaign, and then he doesn't show up.

How do you explain that?

- I can't.

It's a shocker.

And what's also interesting, here you have the governor of the ninth largest state, or the lieutenant governor running, and, if anything, he maybe should have introduced Donald Trump instead of Richard Childress.

He was nowhere to be seen, not even in the pre-speeches that occur 30 or 40 minutes way before the president arrives.

- All the other Republican candidates had their moment to speak and had their introduction from the president.

So, I don't know.

It could be one of two factors.

One is Trump doesn't wanna be associated with Robinson or Robinson doesn't wanna be associated with Trump.

I doubt the latter.

So, this happens in politics too.

When I was running in '08 against Beverly Perdue, right after I won the primary, President Bush calls me up in my car and he goes, "I want to come down and do a fundraiser "for you in Raleigh."

Well, President Bush at the time was at 35% approval rating.

We didn't want him.

I love the guy but it would hurt us.

And, of course, I said, "Absolutely, Mr.

President."

You know, these are the dynamics.

It can work for or against either the federal candidate or the state candidate.

Roy Cooper in the past always avoided the presidential ticket, even President Obama, because he was going after the swing voter, and in an election like mine, 10,000 votes is the victory over 4.6 million, it can make a difference.

So what you don't hear from the candidates is the maneuvering of who should I attach to and who shouldn't I attach to on both sides of the aisle.

It's really an incredible dynamic, and I don't know if that's what occurred here in Charlotte or not.

- Yeah.

There's something going on behind the scenes.

We just don't know what it is right now.

Hey, you mentioned Beverly Perdue.

When you ran for governor against her the second time, she dropped out of the race-- - That was the first time.

- Oh, that's right.

The first time.

When you ran against Perdue the first time, the second time around she was the sitting governor that was supposed to be running for reelection.

She pulled her name off the ballot, said she didn't wanna run primarily because of low polls, and you wound up running against Walter Dalton and winning.

Does that compare to what's going on now in the Trump versus Harris race, the candidate you think you're gonna run against versus the candidate that you wind up running against?

How did it change your race?

- It didn't change my race at all.

In fact, it made it easier.

- [Jeff] Hmm.

- It made my race easier 'cause the power of the governorship did not have an impact, and Dalton didn't have that big swing when the power was transferred between Perdue and Dalton, and, frankly, Beverly Perdue was a tough opponent for me.

She was a dadgum good-- She was the best debater I had to deal with in all my elections.

So I was relieved that she was out of the race, but she could read the polls too, and it really had nothing to do with her, it had to do with the economy at the time.

And we were in a tough recession, and whoever was in office at the time was blamed for that recession.

So it was an interesting dynamic.

This time I see Harris having the whole machinery behind 'em but it's for different reasons.

It's because of Biden's health and his energy, and she's bringing obviously new energy and money.

- And new money too, obviously, yeah.

What about new issues?

Because you've got a woman at the top of the ticket, does that mean abortion becomes more important because you've got a African American at the top of the ticket?

Does that mean other issues?

Does that energize your base?

- Yes, yes, yes.

Having a woman on the ticket makes it more difficult for the male.

I had that same issue with Beverly Perdue.

It's tougher to attack.

You have to be able attack in a different way, and it's just the way it is.

You have to be very sensitive.

But the fact of the matter is, social issues, she'll be able to talk more about social issues like abortion as a woman easier than a man can.

It'll be interesting how Trump deals with that dynamic.

And right now he's going after her like he did after Hillary.

And it'll be interesting if she can withstand those attacks.

And, by the way, she's going after Trump too.

It's gonna be a no-nice-person debate.

Notice I didn't say nice guy.

It's a nice-person debate.

- No more Mr. Nice Guy, no more Mr. Nice Person.

- Neither one of them.

And behind the the scenes, the other people behind the scenes, the 28 and 35-year-olds who are out in the ground.

They're gonna be doing everything they can to raise the negatives of the opponent.

- When the last debate happened, we all assumed that would be an issue all the way through to November.

Now it's not an issue anymore.

What about the next debate?

How important is that going to be, Trump versus Harris?

- It'll be huge.

And Trump wants more debates because I think they, after watching Harris in the presidential debates in the primary against Biden and other Democrats, she did not do well.

Although she had her pre-planned lines, remember?

"I'm that girl in that picture."

So, she was pre-planned but it kind of backfired.

But a lot of people say she is now better.

I think the big issue for both Trump and Harris will be when will they get off the teleprompter and do one-on-one interviews like this without their scripts, without their sound bites, and be able to talk in details about foreign policy, about the deficit, about crime, about immigration, beyond the sound bites that both are giving on their speeches right now.

Right now it's a sound bite campaign hoping to get their sound bite on nightly news.

- And I wanna follow up with what you said in your top five about retail politics and fewer events because of security after Pennsylvania.

How does that change an election when you don't have the one-on-one with the actual people, when it's all sound bites and online and that sort of thing?

- I think it hurts Trump more because Trump thrives with that in his base.

I mean, he's come to Charlotte many times during the past many years, and yet he drew an enormous crowd, as you saw.

- [Jeff] Yeah.

Huge.

- I mean, it was just a huge crowd and people wanting to get in.

Harris probably won't draw as big as crowds, but Obama did, by the way, so it'll be interesting if she starts drawing crowds the way Obama did or will they be more small hallways where they try to make it look like there's a big crowd versus really being a big crowd.

There's a lot of political dynamics and how you set up a room.

Believe me, I've done that too.

You want the cameras to make it look like there's a full room, and it's very well staged.

Do you think there's politics in staging?

- Not at all.

I've walked into some of those campaign events with a small crowd in a big room.

It's much better to have a big crowd in a small room.

- And the big thing is putting people behind you too, which is kind of a new trend now.

But you gotta be careful what those people are doing behind you.

(laughs) - Hey, we're outta time.

Thanks again.

That's this week's "One-on-One."

(pensive music) - This week on "Unfiltered."

Let's talk about how political hate speech turns into action.

Back in the old days of politics, I loved it when someone would approach me and ask, "Are you Pat McCrory?"

I'd say, "Sure, how are you?"

No hesitation at all.

But these days it's a lot harder to be friendly when that same question, "Are you Pat McCrory?"

could lead to verbal abuse or even a physical assault.

I've been outta public now for what, eight years?

and it still happens today.

Strangers getting in my face and cussing me out for some political disagreement from years ago, which brings us to the assassination attempt two weeks ago.

We still don't know why Donald Trump was the target.

We don't know why the shooter's phone also had info about the Democratic National Convention.

What we do know is that strangers and even friends can't seem to talk politics anymore without making it hateful and personal.

It happens at your school, at your job, even in your family relationships.

The media, educators, entertainers, and both political parties all have a hand in promoting this political hate speech.

And when a 20-year-old brings a gun to a political rally, we all have to wonder, when you say you hate the police or public officials, like a judge or a former governor or a presidential candidate, is hate speech partly to blame when a life is lost or when a shooter makes history for all the wrong reasons.

(upbeat music) And that's reality as I see it.

Thanks for joining us.

I hope you'll come back next week as we explore the politics of problem solving.

We'll ask Senator Thom Tillis why nobody in politics wants to make a deal anymore, and I'll count down the top five issues that both parties in Washington refuse to compromise on.

That's on our next "Unspun," where we'll tell you what politicians are thinking, but not saying.

Goodnight, folks.

(upbeat music) - [Announcer] A production of PBS Charlotte.

(upbeat music)