♪ Welcome to This Week In South Carolina.

I'm Gavin Jackson.

This week we continue our look at election 2026 and also discuss the latest moves out of Washington.

With the end of the federal government shutdown.

And to do that, I'm joined by Meg Kinnard, A.P.

national politics reporter and South Carolina Public Radio's Maayan Schechter.

Welcome to you both.

Good to see you guys.

Maayan Schechter> Be here.

Gavin Jackson> The shutdowns over, Meg.

It's been a long 43 days.

Let's start at the federal level and work our way down to the state level here and talk about this.

Tell me what broke this dam for Democrats and Republicans in Congress to get the federal government reopened?

Really, what it came down to was eight members of the Senate who traditionally have voted with Democrats, seven of whom are Democrats and one Independent.

Really coming up with this agreement to go and vote with Republicans to pass this measure, to bring everything coming forward in that chamber.

And there's been a lot of blowback, basically, from a lot of Democrats who are unhappy with this.

But from the eight members who were kind of part of this, this nucleus that was able to get the deal moving forward, they were saying, you know, it's time for this to be over, we're hearing from our constituents, listing off all the benefits that Americans haven't been able to get during the shutdown.

And it really, like, you know, when you look at all of this and put it in context, it really has kind of shown, at least for a lot of folks looking at this and analyzing it from the outside, Democrats really didn't end up getting a whole lot more than what they said that they had initially been offered in the very, very beginning.

What they got was an agreement to, yes, fund the government temporarily, kind of kicking the can down the road a little bit and also have a conversation about the health care subsidies that were kind of really to begin with, the whole debate that Democrats were upset over.

So it was these eight members who agreed to vote with Republicans on the contingency that they would have this further conversation about the health care subsidies that began the whole thing, but also it's kind of given us a peek into the latest iteration of the Democratic family feud, kind of in terms of where the disagreements still are, even though the shutdown is ending and in general, people are happy about that.

Gavin Jackson> Yeah.

I was gonna say, you know, air traffic controllers, all that congestion, they're still rippling through.

We're seeing those flight delays, those cancellations.

I mean, it's been affecting everyone.

SNAP benefits for 560,000 South Carolinians were disrupted.

It's been a lot over the past 43 days.

And then the federal employees here and across the country are now getting their back pay getting restarted here.

But when it comes down to it, I mean, we're talking about the Democrats, you know, essentially caving to the demands here to get things going again.

Do we really think that there's going to be some viability to these discussions about the future of health care?

I mean, it seems like it was just okay, we'll see what happens in January when this the stopgap funding expires again.

And we're back to the drawing board again.

I mean, do we really think something's going to happen here with health care?

Meg Kinnard> I mean, that's very much what we're hearing from a lot of Democrats in the House and beyond saying, well, they've said that they'll reopen the conversation about this, but how do we know that we as Democrats are really going to be able to advance these issues in a way that we wanted to, to begin with, and that would help our constituents and Americans writ large.

And so it's still theoretical at this point.

It's unknown how, you know, that conversation will go when it is reopened.

And certainly there are plenty of people who are looking forward to that debate, which, as you note, is going to be dragging into 2026, which will be an election year when all of these members of the House are going to be on ballots.

And many of the senators.

And so I think that we can continue to see, even though the shutdown has ended, a lot of the conversation about the issues that began it and dragged on through it are probably going to be taking us into the midterm elections.

Gavin Jackson> My own senator, Lindsey Graham, was in town this week, including here in Columbia, and he's up with what sounds like a forthcoming debate about health care, like we're talking about, possibly in December, January 2026.

It sounds like we're talking about a pretty heavy lift here.

So I'm wondering, like, what did he have to say in the matter?

And, like, how realistic is this actually going to be, like we're talking about here, right.

Well, first, I think the big thing is that he opposes the extension of those Obamacare subsidies, which obviously a lot of Democrats were calling for and still want.

But he talked about wanting, a broad health care debate, something where a program is more sustainable, affordable, better outcomes, perhaps putting more money back to the actual Americans.

And he also argued that Obamacare did not lower premiums.

But, you know, again, to Meg's point, we're heading into an election year.

We haven't exactly seen Congress have the ability, perhaps, to do a kind of full sail, debate on a really big policy.

And we just watched, we just watched a government shutdown for 43 days.

So, you know, hate to say never say never, but I think that there are, a lot of complications that maybe spell out what the future could look like on a debate like that.

Gavin Jackson> What I'm wondering, too, and this will come with time, but, like, you know, when people start seeing these premium increases, which they already are, and when you start seeing these subsidies going away permanently or however they're going to be, I mean, that's going to that's affecting Americans.

I mean, that's Democrats, Republicans, independents like, people rely on these things.

And when they start seeing this health insurance skyrocketing, and we have people who now go into the E. R., emergency rooms again as their primary care providers, we're back to pre Obamacare essentially and we have this problem again.

So it's gonna be interesting to see once that really starts influencing the debate I would think.

Maayan Schechter> Right.

I think it's going to take constituents in these respective districts of senators or House members to actually speak up and say that this is deeply impacting them.

And it can't just be Democrats.

It has to be Republicans, too.

We're going to have to see perhaps more town halls where this issue comes up, but it's obviously going to take that ground level sort of grassroots voice, I think, to maybe sway at least that conversation at all.

Meg Kinnard> And there's already a, excuse me, there's already a conversation happening among people who are spending forward to the midterms and saying, even if Democrats at this point don't get exactly what they're arguing, what they want legislatively speaking, it's going to be a really good campaign issue for them going into the midterms, going into those town halls and being able to say to the voters that they're asking to send them back to Washington.

We've been arguing for this the whole time.

One of the, my Republican counterparts, what have they been doing?

And so even if it doesn't come out in the wash this time, there's an argument that it's going to be good for Democrats in the elections.

Gavin Jackson> A long 2026.

But Meg, when we're talking about the House reopening now, they're back at work after 43 days, haven't been there since September.

We saw an explosion of emails from the late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein come out from the House Oversight Committee on Wednesday.

Congresswoman Nancy Mace is one of several Republicans pushing for a vote to release all those files, despite pushback from the White House.

A tricky spot for her to be in since she is a gubernatorial candidate.

So what's the move here?

What's the latest with those, those emails coming out?

And how do you think this will affect maybe the race in South Carolina?

Meg Kinnard> There's been so much conversation about the emails.

I feel like every, every political person that we've been in front of for months, one party or the other is talking about, released the emails.

What are the emails?

We got more emails coming from this committee or that committee.

But at stake right now is this discharge petition in the House, which if there are 218 members signed on to it, then that will advance it.

And the petition is saying to release everything, DOJ, FBI, what do you have on this entire investigation?

Release everything.

And there are several Republicans who have signed on to this discharge petition, Nancy Mace being one of them.

And we had reporting yesterday with the A.P.

on how there have been some attempts at conversation between Nancy Mace and the White House, as well as some of these other members, including Colorado Representative Lauren Boebert, who we understand has met with officials at the white House to discuss her support of this discharge petition.

And so the theory is, the move is to try to get some of these Republicans who have said that they support this petition to take their names off, and so then, therefore, it would not be able to advance through the House into the Senate and beyond.

But the overall conversation about a lot of this is the theory of why wouldn't the White House want any of this released?

What is the point?

Why would the White House be going to these Republicans who have voiced their support and ask them to remove?

What do they have to hide?

Why wouldn't they want this full transparency?

And so, at stake here in the gubernatorial race in South Carolina, because it does always come back to politics, you have Nancy Mace, who is this candidate who clearly has been in the race for quite some time now and has often talked about sexual assault and her own experience as a sexual assault survivor, now being supportive of releasing information in this sexual assault case.

And so from a political perspective, for her, that does remain very on brand with a lot of what she has been sharing of her personal story into her campaign, but also in the Republican primary debate, when they're trying to all get support from the White House as they move forward through the primary into the general election.

It's an interesting nexus when you look at all of those pieces together, and we'll see how the petition does, whether it moves through the House and into the Senate and beyond there, and what happens with the rest of the files and the emails.

But it certainly does make it interesting to watch here in South Carolina.

Gavin Jackson> Yeah, we are back full force here, coming back to D.C.

and everything.

Just like spinning, Meg Kinnard> All the things all at once.

Gavin Jackson> It went from being very quiet to like just a tornado right now.

Meg, sticking with you, talking about, how you were live anchoring the A.P.

coverage for major, races in early November for Election Day.

It was an off year obviously, but there were some big races.

The New York mayor's race, the New Jersey governor's race and the Virginia governor's race.

The Virginia governor's race, all three were major sweeps for Democrats.

And after digesting all that data a week on out now, what are the big takeaways here?

What are Democrats looking at?

I know we were just talking about all this back and forth, and we're caving for the shutdown, kind of like taking some of the wind out of their sails that they just got from those election returns.

Meg Kinnard> Well, there's been some conversation about that of like, hey, we just had these big wins in these elections and now we can't seem to agree about how the shutdown stuff should go.

Like, what does that look like for us as a party?

But certainly coming out of the early November off year elections, there was a lot of positivity among Democrats and saying, okay, well, this is how we did in the first major round of elections since Donald Trump's return to the White House.

This is going to bode potentially very well for us going into the midterms, where we all know traditionally it isn't a good showing for the party that holds the presidency at that time.

But given the shutdown politics, given how there is a lot of runway between now and those midterms, yes, these are good for Democrats.

Yes, they can fundraise off of these wins.

Also prop 50 out in California.

That was another win for Democrats backed by Governor Gavin Newsom.

The redistricting effort there to add seats to the Democratic delegation in that state.

So all of those things come together.

But certainly when real time issues come up, when the shutdown comes up, when there are will be other things where Democrats might disagree over the next year, plus, you know, about a year, really, until we get to the general election, then, you know, they can still look back at these wins, but they will have to take stock of what's right in front of them, too.

Gavin Jackson> Yeah, that unity is really kind of needed, especially going into the midterms.

But Meg, can we talk about 2028 really quick?

Meg Kinnard> I mean, I always talk about 2028.

Gavin Jackson> 2026 is fine by 2028, Obviously, let's just jump ahead to the next big one.

We have seen a stream of big name Democrats, national Democrats coming through South Carolina this past year, governors, Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey, what's going to come to the state this earlier this week, but of course, the votes in the Senate took him away.

So we all know what's going on here.

Everyone's talking, Meg Kinnard> They just like South Carolina.

Gavin Jackson> But this is all obviously a ramp up to 2028, where South Carolina is an early voting state in the presidential primary, Democrats and Republicans, but specifically for the Democrats, what's the latest on the Democratic National Committee's moves to solidify that early voting calendar for 2028?

So recently, the rules and Bylaws Committee of the DNC, which is that body that helps set the calendar and deals with how voting is going to happen for primary elections.

They recently set a deadline of January 16th for the states that want to compete in that early window, where South Carolina's primary happens, the window before Super Tuesday.

States that want to participate in that have until mid-January to apply, and then thereafter will be a usually pretty lengthy process to wade through those applications and figure out exactly what the order of states is going to be.

South Carolina, which obviously went first last time for Democrats, has made it clear that they intend to argue to keep that seat.

But there are plenty of other states that are going to be doing the same.

And new DNC chairman Ken Martin, this will be his first round of primary elections and caucuses since becoming chair, has said that he is very willing to perhaps completely scramble that process, just like they did in 2024 when it was Joe Biden who said, okay, I would like South Carolina to go first, and we all kind of know what happened from there.

So we're in this application process.

States are going to be making their arguments.

The one thing that we do know is that states in the early window will come from all quadrants of the United States.

So they'll be north and south, west and east, all represented in that window.

There has also been an argument that, like South Carolina is among those states should be heavily African-American populated states, with Democrats saying this is a reliable spot for us in terms of voters.

We need to make sure that we keep that in mind.

And that is something that we've continued to hear with some consistency, so I think that will bear out, whether exactly that South Carolina or maybe one of our neighbors like North Carolina or Georgia, those are both states that often come up in that conversation.

So it is always a long process to actually get that calendar set.

We all remember it from last time how even though we knew South Carolina had been early, we didn't know if we'd be first or not.

So it'll be quite a while until we hear.

But at least in January those applications will be formalized and then they can really debate.

Gavin Jackson> Have you heard of any concern from Democrats in South Carolina about, I mean, obviously we probably won't be first again, but at least hopefully be first in the South.

And have you heard any concerns about them making sure that we're at least still first in the South?

I'm just wondering, because when you look at Georgia, North Carolina, purple states, some swing states, they're playing a large role in the general election, where South Carolina is always solidly Republican, just based on how we have the votes.

I mean, it's not changing anytime soon.

So that really does give us the advantage when it comes to the primary as well as our track record here in terms of picking nominees.

So have you heard any concerns about us possibly just losing out in the early voting period?

Meg Kinnard> South Carolinians like Democrats within our state seem to be fairly positive to me in terms of being able to keep that.

We know how to do this.

It's a very affordable state to campaign.

Those other two states you mentioned much bigger media markets.

It's harder to get around.

It's harder to get in front of voters both on TV or, you know, digitally kind of not as much of a difference, but in person or on TV.

So South Carolina Democrats seem pretty confident that they'll be able to maintain that spot.

But the argument from outside the state, from a lot of other places, not just North Carolina and Georgia, but places saying South Carolina, yeah, you aren't a purple state.

You don't send statewide Democrats or side with Democratic presidential candidates in a general election.

Why would we continue to come to you for this primary process?

That's certainly going to be part of the argument that we hear from the other states, for sure.

Gavin Jackson> Us and Iowa and New Hampshire, everyone has to bound together here.

But Maayan, we'll get to some local elections.

I mean, again, it was an off year, not too many, but there were some, special State House elections.

But I want to keep it this federal look and look at, the U.S.

Supreme Court, which has heard arguments against the Trump tariffs, involving President Trump using the International Emergency Economic Powers Act to levy these tariffs on our adversaries and our allies alike, whether it's for fentanyl or other issues with the trade deficits, etc.. But we know that there's been a lot of impacts from those tariffs, including, you know, how it affects everyone's spending power, etc., but there's also been some ramifications in terms of trade agreements and who's buying what, especially when it comes to soybeans for farmers in South Carolina and across America, it's really redefined who's the market, essentially because China said, no, we're not buying soybeans anymore.

There's been a deal that's been reached between us and China recently, to change that.

But you've done some reporting on that with farmers in South Carolina.

What did you find?

And and how is that progressing right now?

Soybeans are an incredibly important crop here in the state.

Top commodity, top export.

Most farmers grow soybeans.

They harvest soybeans, along with other crops like cotton, corn, wheat, etc.

it's been a really, really tough couple of years for farmers in the state, not just soybean farmers, but farmers.

Overall, they've experienced some pretty terrible drought.

And when we focus on soybean farmers, the only, soybean processing crush plant closed in South Carolina It was the only one in the town of Kershaw, a very, very small town in Lancaster County.

But you had folks that would come not just from all over the state, but North Carolina and Georgia, that caused a huge economic gut punch for a lot of soybean farmers.

And then, of course, when China altogether stopped buying soybeans as a result of the trade war.

And as you mentioned, China has restarted.

Reporting has suggested that it's not quite the same volume that they were buying it before.

So it's been a real economic gut punch, for farmers in South Carolina, especially the ones who I've talked to who are looking at cutting back.

There have been farmers who have sold their land, whether to business or housing developments that we've seen popping up across the state.

Mental health is a serious issue amongst the farming community, and so we have seen that play out a little bit on this last couple of years.

But it's been really tough.

I spoke with Hugh Weathers, the commissioner of the Department of Agriculture, who talked about ways that they are trying to help farmers, you know, especially with soybeans that's expanding pork business.

Soybean storage, which is a huge issue in the state, did not realize also, tapping into their agribusiness fund, they're also potentially looking at really asking the legislature to step in; something like, kind of a tax credit sort of safety net, piece of legislation.

I think it's still being worked out.

Those conversations are still ongoing, but we've seen how farm aid bills have played out in the legislature before.

So, this will be a kind of an interesting conversation or debate if it does happen this year.

But I think there is a lot of pressure right now.

The farming industry is obviously very important, very, very vital to the state and farmers are being very, very vocal right now about the issues that they're going through.

Some of them do support the tariffs, but I don't think in speaking with them, they do not love the fact that, you know, perhaps we went so far, we cut off an entire country that was the largest importer of one crop.

And I mean, obviously that hurt nationwide.

But here in South Carolina it's especially been difficult.

Gavin Jackson> I was gonna say, this comes on the heels of last year with Hurricane Helene really disrupting a lot of growth, farming too.

And there was money in the budget, right, to help restore some of that?

I'm trying to remember.

Maayan Schechter> Yes.

You know, timber especially.

That's another piece.

That's another part of the industry that is also been really, really hurting.

So we have seen, you know, the state kind of help out.

But I think the drought especially was really, was really hurtful for farmers in the state.

Gavin Jackson> So let's pivot and get a little bit lower to when we come to these races in the State House.

And we saw a handful of special election races.

What's going on with those, who was up and what happened there?

There's still Republican super majorities in the House and doesn't change anything.

Maayan Schechter> No.

And these will not change at all.

The Republican super majorities in the House and the Senate are not going away.

I think the top headline is former Senator Lee Bright is returning to, <He's Back> he's back.

He's returning to the Senate next year.

Spartanburg Republican he replace.

He'll fill the unexpired term of Senator Roger Nutt, who of course announced his resignation after an Alzheimer's diagnosis.

But we do have a handful of new faces who will be coming into the house as well.

Most of them again, coming from, Republican leaning district.

So, R.J.

May, his term will be filled.

There's a December 23rd general election between a Republican Democrat.

It is a Republican leaning district.

So we'll see someone replace him.

Bobby Cox, who was going to run for Roger Nutt's seat now also has resigned from his House seat.

So he will have a replacement.

And then if you want to even consider a race to be competitive, the race to fill the unexpired term of former state Representative Chris Murphy, will be it and that takes place on January 6th.

There is a runoff between two Republicans, the Democrats, down in low country.

It's still a Republican leaning district, but it's closer than the others.

I think what's also important that you both know to keep in mind is, these are off year elections, very, very low turnout, and all these folks are going to have to run, except for Lee Bright.

All these folks are going to have to run again next year.

<Yeah> Right.

So we could have a brand new crop of faces even for those seats as well.

Gavin Jackson> Promise to learn their names.

I will.

[laughs] Meg Kinnard> We're all going to try.

Gavin Jackson> Meg, I know you're a national politics reporter who is based in South Carolina.

We appreciate that.

We love that you're outside of the bubble in D.C.

But you know the state and its politics very well.

You've covered it for years, decades, dare I say.

20 years at the A.P.

Congratulations.

But we have a governor's race now wide open.

Five Republicans and two Democrats.

We'll talk about the Democrats in a bit, but I want to ask you about what the Republican side is shaping up right now.

We talked about Congressman Mace and some of the ramifications of her actions.

With that vote in the discharge petition.

But, we're getting closer to June.

It's still less than seven months away.

It's still far.

The holidays are here.

No one's really paying attention.

But how do you see this race shaping up with these five Republicans right now?

Meg Kinnard> It has been kind of difficult for me.

When I talked to my editors and they asked me like, okay, so the South County governor's race, like, what's going on?

And I kind of like lay the land out for them a bit and they're like, okay, well, yeah, June is really far.

So I don't think that we have to like rush out reporting necessarily.

But when you take stock, I mean, a lot of these, the contenders right now are still introducing themselves.

They are trying to do the thing that you do in a primary, which is differentiate yourself among the competitors with whom you agree on a lot of bigger picture issues, but you have to make your argument to voters why you?

Why should you be picked?

And so it's a name ID game at this point.

We have seen some issues come to the fore.

Most of the candidates, if not all, have had a conversation in their own events about judicial reform and criminal justice, putting, you know, those are issues that we heard a lot during the presidential campaign from last year.

And so we're seeing those emerge as major places.

That's very significant, especially when you have the current attorney general is one of those candidates.

Allen Wilson, and he's arguing that he is the one who has the most experience in that lane, because that's something professionally, he's been doing for a long time.

But for the other contenders there, really, you know, just trying to introduce themselves but put themselves in a different context.

Clearly.

Lieutenant Governor Pam Evatt has been elected statewide.

So she does have that level of, I already represent all of South Carolina, but they haven't seen her as governor.

They've seen her as a very loyal supporter of Governor McMaster, while she has been in office alongside him and run with him in different campaigns, but necessarily seeing her as the chief executive of the state, that's something that she is really trying to make that argument.

And for Congressman Norman and for Congresswoman Mace, same thing.

They represent their own places, their portions, their districts of the state.

But really trying to say, but now I want to be known and lead all of South Carolina.

It's just a mind shift for a lot of primary voters.

And so those are ways that the candidates basically have to think about, you know, coming out for the first time and really introducing themselves to people on a different side of the state than the one that may know them a bit better in their district.

Gavin Jackson> Yeah, there's a lot of fireworks going on there, too.

We don't have enough time to get into all that.

Maayan, I wanna talk about the Democrats.

We just saw another Democrat jump in that race.

Tell us about that and how difficult it is for a Democrat to win statewide in South Carolina.

Maayan Schechter> Yeah.

That was State Representative Jermaine Johnson from Richland County, the second Democrat to jump in behind Mullins McLeod, the Charleston attorney.

How difficult?

Very difficult.

I this is a red state.

We all know that.

But this is also a massive election that is going to probably turn out more voters than, you know, were used to.

This is the first wide open governor's race that we would have had in over a decade.

You also have the other piece, which is Senator Lindsey Graham is up for reelection and if we've seen anything from his previous run, he can get more votes or more people turn out to vote in that election than they do in other statewide elections.

And so I think because of those two things combined, it is going to be a tougher year for Democrats.

Now.

I think what maybe Democrats will see as success is if they can narrow that margin that was created back when governor McMaster won in 2022 against Democrat Joe Cunningham.

<Blow out> Blow out, but it is tough.

What can Democrats do?

I mean it's obviously going to take not kind of getting into your silos, not being super narrow, talking to as many voters as possible, going into places, perhaps in the state that Democrats may not always be used to.

But again, you're competing with Republicans who are, one is going to get the Trump endorsement a lot more money.

So it's going to be, it's going to be tough for Democrats.

Gavin Jackson> Yeah.

Especially with Senator Graham who already has Trump's endorsement, too.

It's going to be interesting to see them all fighting for that too.

Maayan Schechter> Yeah.

And I think if Senator Lindsey Graham wins his primary, that kind of opens up, several months for Trump to come back for perhaps somebody else as well.

Gavin Jackson> Bring him up on stage.

Less than a minute left there, Meg.

I want to touch on redistricting.

That's been an issue on the campaign trail with Congressman Ralph Norman saying we should be redistricting, getting rid of the sixth Congressional District, where Democrat Jim Clyburn has held on to power there.

The only Democrat in the seven member congressional delegation for the House.

Is there any possibility that will happen?

We haven't seen any movement on this at the state level when it comes to redistricting.

The maps like we've seen in other states.

You talked about prop 15, California.

Meg Kinnard> I think we're a long way away from that actually happening here in South Carolina.

And for Representative Norman, he's in the governor's race.

And so that allows him to pick an issue that has had a lot of attention nationally to bring it home to South Carolina and maybe differentiate himself, like we were just talking about in that GOP primary.

But I think in terms of something like that actually moving through the legislature here, I think that would take a lot.

And I'm not sure what the appetite would be when they come back in January.

Maayan Schechter> Yeah, I mean, I have the same thing.

I think you, perhaps there is a map that's deep down in the vault right now.

But, that is a tough fight.

And you know, Congressman Clyburn is pretty well respected by even some Republicans, excuse me, some, yeah, some Republicans here in South Carolina.

So, you know, while him, while he is still in office, I think that's an even tougher look, as well.

Gavin Jackson> Yeah, it's helpful to have him here when there's a Democrat in the White House and vice versa.

Meg Kinnard> Members of Congress from both parties have told me that, about how that works.

Gavin Jackson> Great.

Well, that's A.P.

national politics, Meg Kinnard and South Carolina Public Radio's Maayan Schechter.

Thank you both.

<Thank you> <Thanks> And thank you for watching.

For South Carolina ETV I'm Gavin Jackson.

Be well, South Carolina.

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