- Hi, I'm Mickey.

- And I'm Ryan.

- [Both] And this is "Hiseerie".

(tense music) - [Narrator] All throughout history, different cultures have believed in the paranormal divine gods, spirits, alien, shaman, witchcraft, and divination, just to name a few.

Supernatural occurrences are reported all around the world and have become ingrained into pop culture.

Since the beginning of humanity, people have been questioning the bigger picture of existence.

What is really out there?

Where do we go when we die?

Are there aliens, ghosts, Bigfoot?

- Tonight we're out in the great outdoors to read some campfire stories.

- Woo.

I'm loving it.

I love the outdoors.

- We have collected urban legends, cryptids, and just weird stories from around the Midwest and we're gonna tell each other about them around the fire.

- Who will spook who?

- You'll spook me.

- Challenge accepted.

- Some of the ones that I researched, I genuinely, like reading them to you will scare me.

Like I'm already scared.

(both laughing) So scared.

I don't do the woods.

I don't do the woods during the day.

I definitely don't do the woods at night.

Like this is crazy.

- I'm in my happy spot.

I'm ready to go sleep.

Primitive camping.

- I'm leaving you here.

I'm leaving you here.

- And I'd be fine.

Just come get me in the morning.

- All right, so the first story I'm going to share tonight is the story of the wendigo.

(man laughing) (tense music) - Yay.

- Ooh.

That is a good one.

You're gonna start out with that, all right?

- This is gonna take me the longest to read, which is why I'm doing this one first.

- Okay.

- Because this one's kind of, I went a little too much.

I went a little too much in depth.

- Too deep.

All right.

- I went too deep.

I went too deep.

Also, the later it gets, the more this will scare me.

- Oh, also, yeah, that's a good point.

- I'm already... This is one of the two that I'm genuinely scared of.

Like, I genuine do not wanna talk about it, but we know.

- Which is great because you aren't even supposed to say the name.

- Well, I have that in here.

I actually wrote about that in here.

We'll talk about it.

It's really exciting.

- I won't rush.

I am sorry.

I won't.

- No, it's crazy because... So, fun fact, when me and Ryan first started talking about this show, we were talking about a certain cryptid that is lured by its name.

And I'm not gonna say... But I talked about them for like months with Ryan, months, not knowing that.

No one told me that key piece of information.

And then one day we were on the Bigfoot hunt, I think, and someone in the group was like, "Oh, you know, when you say that they come at you."

- It detracts them.

Yes.

I just thought it was common knowledge.

- Months.

- I'm sorry.

I really thought it was just- - Months in my life, no one said anything.

Okay, so wendigo.

The wendigo is an infamous cryptid that has become misconstrued by western media and lost the power of the true folklore behind it.

And now we're gonna talk about it because this is why I wanted to do it first.

(laughs) So, obviously we'll get more into depth in it.

But essentially the wendigo, like when you think of the wendigo, what do you think of like visually?

- It's so hard to think of it because it sounds like it shape shifts at least to some point.

- Okay.

- So, I guess I don't really know.

I have no idea what I'd be looking for.

- Really?

Well, wendigo in most Western media is seen with antlers.

Like, you'll always see the- - I've heard of that.

- The deer head with antlers.

- Yep.

- That is not... I don't know where that came from, it's not real.

- I didn't think so.

- But the shape shifting is not completely accurate, but I feel like- - Which is another thing.

- It would make more sense if it did.

All right so, I do need to put a disclaimer on here, I am not a member of Algonquin nation.

However, I did grow up hearing about wendigo, but I heard it specifically from the like Ojibwe perspective.

I never heard like other versions of it, and I didn't know about Western perception of it until supernatural.

So, there is some debate about the use of the name wendigo.

I'm gonna switch between wendigo and windigo, just so everyone knows.

There's also some debate in the use of any name.

And in many cultures, they believe that using the name will call the entity and invite the energy in.

Personally, I'm a believer in this and there are some names that I go out of my way to avoid, like the one we were talking about earlier, which I- - Are you gonna say it at all?

- I don't want to.

- Okay.

- Well, okay, I will.

Okay guys.

- This will happen once.

- I'm actually scared.

- Once.

- This is the one time that you'll see this on camera.

(Mickey crying) I don't wanna say it.

Like we're in the middle of the woods is the thing.

- We're like at the start of a woods, we aren't in the middle of the woods.

- Close enough.

Okay.

So, the word... God, I'm so scared.

I'm so sorry.

Okay, skinwalkers.

We don't say that word, and you'll never hear me say it again.

However, after the following conversation on the etymology of the name, which I don't know if I'm pronouncing right, which is really ironic.

I hope it will make sense as to why I'm saying it so openly in this episode.

So, the cryptid originates from the Algonquin tribes.

Algonquin is a linguistic group that refers to many different cultures and nations.

Some of these nations that we'll talk about are the Cree, the Ojibwe, and the Innu.

These nations inhabited the Northeastern seaboard and continental interior of the Northern Americas.

So, like Great Lakes basically.

- Okay.

- Right into us.

And then we're the very edge of that especially up north.

The idea of wendigo in Minnesota are more northern.

- Okay.

But it is still in Minnesota?

- Yeah.

- Okay.

- Well, there's... Yeah, we'll get into it.

It's not like one entity, it's a lot of them.

Which is a little concerning.

- I wanna hear more.

- Yeah.

So, there are some differences from culture to culture when like talking about it, but most of them remain in the same like vein of creature.

So, the first thing is the name wendigo.

Wendigo is the western name for it.

The tribes all have different alterations of it.

And so the first version of the name in Western Media was in 1714.

That's how old the story is.

- Oh.

- Like Europeans knew about it in 1714, and it was long before then that it really became a thing.

- Okay.

- And so that was labeled as whitego that combined the Cree name Wihtikow with the Ojibwe name wiindigoo so they kind of just put it together.

- Yep.

- According to modern reconstruction of Proto-Algonquian, the term most likely is derived from wintekowa, which has the potential translation to owl.

In certain Algonquin tribes like the Ojibwe it is believed that owls are a bad omen and can warn death.

Which would make sense- - I did know that.

- that the translation, yes.

So, I was also told as a kid that the real name for windigo isn't taught to most as it would only bring the negative entity.

So, despite the name still being a taboo, I'm willing to say it for the sake of sharing the lower colonization of the cryptid.

But it is like worse noting that people when they're kids and they're told about it, it is like you were told that that isn't the proper name for it, but it's like kind of a nickname so that you're not calling the entity to.

- Right, you're not.

Yeah.

- Which is why I'm more okay with saying it.

I still think it's a little risky.

Still think it's risky.

- You're right on the edge.

Yeah.

- Yeah.

- Sure.

- But I'm gonna say it like 18 million times, so- - That's on you, not me.

(both laughing) - You're right.

So, the wendigo is known to be a malevolent, cannibalistic, and supernatural bean.

They're human-like with ashen skin, singly thin, and have the heart of ice.

So, very... You don't wanna say that.

- Nothing sounds too positive yet.

- So, in certain cultures they're described as being giants and they can grow up to 15 feet tall.

- Again, not sounding great.

(both laughing) - And my favorite version of that, because some people believe that when you become wendigo, you just kind of like become that big.

Like you kind of expand yourself.

My favorite version of it is some cultures believe that it's the hunger that you're feeling so like, you know, you go eat a person gonna, they're gonna grow by that person's size so they'll never feel full.

So, they grow with their appetite, you know?

Does that make sense?

- Yeah, yeah.

- And I think that's so much cooler.

- It's cooler but also yet terrifying.

- Oh yeah, so much worse.

Because then like if you see a 15 foot one, you know, how many people that would take?

- Oh, yeah.

I mean, no, I don't, but I can imagine- (both laughing) - I haven't ate anyone yet, but- - I haven't crossed that line yet but- - Next season on "Hiseerie" guys.

(laughs) - Patreon, watch out.

- Oh my God.

(both laughing) Could you imagine?

We're like, " All right, Patreon raffle, who wants to get you in?"

- I'd be like pulling out those gummy eyeballs or something just like the cheap Halloween candy.

That's the only way it's going on.

- So, wendigo is the manifestation of gluttony and greed.

It's associated with winter cold, famine, and starvation, given the, you never can be full.

And, okay, this is my favorite little fun fact about the wendigo and its appearance is that it is so like hungry that it chews off its own lips.

So, like one of the key markers of like, "Okay, it's not just a zombie it's a wendigo."

Is because it's lips have been eaten off.

- That is terrifying.

I have never heard that.

And that, yeah.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- Makes sense though.

- I mean, if you got that much of a hunger.

- Yeah.

- Sure.

Absolutely, it makes sense.

- One of the last warm parts of you, you gotta eat it off.

- Ah.

- Awesome, right?

Okay.

- But wait, there's more.

- Oh, there is?

(both laughing) - I know.

- We're- - You haven't turned the page yet, so... (both laughing) - Okay, so a key factor about them is they smell terrible.

Foul, foul scent.

- Okay.

- Like rotten.

Well, I mean, it smells like rotten meat, decompose- - That I have heard of.

- Just decomposing human flesh while also carrying animal carcasses.

I like to imagine it smells the same as what Luke Skywalker smelled when he got into that creature thing.

- Do you know what I'm talking about?

- That's the perfect picture.

Yes.

- Okay, yeah.

- That's what I imagined the coast like.

(both laughing) So, they're almost entirely human in origin, which is also like one of the really traumatizing parts of it.

They're one of the few... I think they might be the only cryptid that I can think of anyway, that if they were human, like you could be one.

- Right.

- If you go down the wrong path- - You can become one.

- You will become one of them.

- Yes.

Yeah.

- You'll become your worst nightmare.

Awesome.

Awesome to know that.

(laughs) - I'm glad you're loving it because I'm not so sure anymore.

(both laughing) - Choked on my hair.

Okay.

- Oh, these lips are delicious.

- Oh my God.

That's such like a good... I just love when you can look at these like cryptids or folklores and you can just see like when someone was thinking about it and they just picked the smallest detail to capitalize on, that is so ingenious 'cause it is such a haunting image.

- It really is.

- It's a clunky thought.

And it'll stick with you.

Like if you were a kid and you get told that, yeah, someone's gonna offer you an extra piece of pizza and you're gonna be like, "No, I'm not greedy."

Like you're gonna protect yourself.

- I gotta start.

(both laughing) I gotta slow down.

- We're saying the name left and right, you're greedy, we're... - We're done.

- We're done.

- What the heck was that?

- I thought that was you.

- Uh-uh - Ryan, don't do this to me.

- I swear to God that was not me.

- Ryan.

Ryan.

- That was behind me.

- Ryan, I'm gonna call 911.

- Don't call 911, just hop in the truck.

- I'm so scared.

- Like you heard that though?

- They're scoffers.

- Okay.

- They're scoffers.

- Don't start looking in that direction.

- I'm not, I'm just scared.

I'm just scared.

I'm just scared.

Okay, I'm gonna continue giving my story.

In most traditions, the transition from man to wendigo is caused by possession or acts of cannibalism induced by starvation.

'Cause that used to be a really big problem.

So, the process starts with like the person just starts to become more self-serving and greedy like in everyday life.

So, less charitable, but then it like slowly becomes more of the greed for meat and then raw meat and then flesh.

- Interesting.

- And then human.

- That's quite the progression.

- Yeah.

It's interesting to think about like, it starts in a very realistic place that a lot of people find themselves and then it gets to like, "Oh, I am eating a person."

- How does it get to that point?

I have so many questions and I don't know if I want them answered.

- It's not too gory.

I left a lot of the details out that they kept.

Another interesting part is, so in psychiatry, there is a culture bound syndrome called the wendigo psychosis.

Like it's an actual documented disorder.

And so the symptoms include a craving for human flesh and depending on the tribe, destruction of the environment and aggressive greed.

I think that that is a cool tie in too it's just that there is still the part of like, the greed is about nature.

If you go and burn down a forest, you might be becoming a wendigo.

- What happens to the people who accidentally set fire to a forest?

- I think they would still be considered.

- You weren't careful enough?

You asked for it.

- You didn't care enough.

- I'm gonna watch this fire like a hawk.

(both laughing) - Good idea.

And so during the early stages of colonization, wendigo psychosis was actually reported among French missionaries in 1661.

That is how early it got to France, 1660.

- That's how early the psychosis was?

- Yeah.

- So, the Jesuit Relations, pardon, if that's wrong.

(laughs) - We tried.

(both laughing) - This is a direct quote.

"What caused us greater concern was the news that met us upon entering the lake, namely the men deputied by our conductor for the purpose of summoning the nations to the North Sea and assigned them a rendezvous where they will await our coming had met their death the previous winter in a very strange manner.

Those poor men were seized with an ailment unknown to us, but not very unusual among the people we were seeking.

They're afflicted with neither lunacy, hypochondria, nor frenzy, but have a combination of all of these species of disease which affects their imagination and causes them more than canine hunger.

This makes them so ravenous for human flesh that they pounce upon women, children, and even upon men like vertible werewolves and devour them viciously without being able to appease or glut their appetite.

ever seeking fresh prey.

And the more greedily, the more they eat, this ailment attacked our deputies and as death is the sole remedy among victims for checking such acts of murder, they were slayed in order to stay the course of their madness.

- Wow.

(laughs) - Yeah.

- Imagine- - I think the part that got to me was like, wasn't lunacy, like they aren't hypochondriac, they're not making this stuff up, like it's physically affecting their... Yeah.

Wow.

- I mean, just imagine you're in France, right?

And it's 1661, and some guy's talking about the new world and they're like, "You wanna read this pamphlet?"

And you open it and then that's the first thing you read.

- The old world sounds pretty good at that point.

(both laughing) - You're like, "All right, going back to my village.

Cool."

So, in this case, the course of treatment was death, which in many traditions is the only option seen.

The Cree, however, have a hearing process of eating fatty animal meats and drinking animal grease.

And it said sometimes that it'll cause vomiting of ice.

So, if you are like suffering from wendigo psychosis, that is... I mean, you can still get treatment for it, and that is what the treatment is.

It said that you will vomit ice and then that's how they know that you're being cured.

- I don't even know what to say to that.

That's... - It's amazing like- - It's amazing and terrifying all at the same time.

- And so this is like my favorite part is, a lot of cryptids there's stories of it, you know, there's like firsthand reports and like actual documented cases of it.

So, we're gonna get into one of those.

- Yes.

- So, the most famous case that I personally could find from the last 150 years, which is way too recent, way too recent for me.

(laughs) - As long as it wasn't here, I think I'm still willing to hear it.

- No, it's a case from Alberta, which involves a man named Swift Runner.

So, it was the winter of 1878 and there just wasn't enough food for him and his family.

So, it was him, his wife, and then they had six children, okay?

- A lot of mouths to feed.

- Yeah.

- The eldest son ended up passing away from starvation, and after that something just snapped, I would say, and the hunger got to them, and so Swift Runner then killed and ate all five of the remaining family members, or all six of the... 'cause he also killed his wife and ate them, which is terrible, obviously.

- Yeah.

- But if you're starving, questionable things happen.

And that's where we get to the next point of why this is not just a case of that.

So, there was actually an emergency food supply like place set up by French and the native tribe less than 25 miles from their homestead.

- So, still ways but- - Still ways.

- Able to travel, - But travel the 25 miles, kill and eat your family.

- I mean, I'd rather try and go 25 miles but- - I thought you'd say, I rather eat my family, - That's just me.

I was like, "Okay."

- I'll stay hungry for a little while longer.

- But yeah, so he- - Okay, did you hear that?

- No, that's how I did it.

- Nevermind.

- Ryan.

- No.

Don't- - Sound like a dog barking over there.

I knew you wouldn't wanna hear it.

(laughs) I would not (beep) with you right now.

(laughs) That's how serious I am.

I was willing to swear on camera.

(laughs) - Im so scared .

I'm so scared.

- I literally heard a dog bark over there.

- Oh.

That's a leaf.

That's a leaf.

That's a leaf.

(laughs) That's a leaf.

(laughs) - Okay, I heard that.

- Ryan, I'm freaked out.

- I'm gonna tend the fire.

- Okay, so while he's tending the fire, I'm just gonna say, I'll not be saying the name anymore because I'm genuinely terrified and I can't risk it.

- There is something making noises around us that is no exaggeration as much as I would love to say it's a joke.

None of the noises have been the same either.

- So, due to the choice of consuming his family, despite supplies being available, he was diagnosed with the wendigo psychosis.

So, he was executed, but they did contend that he was executed because it was the cure and not because he did an act of cannibalism.

So, he wasn't executed because of his crime, he was executed because there was no other way that they could still help him.

- That was the way they could save him.

- Yeah.

- Or help him.

- So, the last thing I wanna talk about is like the cryptid in more of a modern lens because it's been studied a lot especially since I'd say the '60s and '70s.

So, Jack Douglas Forbes, he's a well-known Native American scholar and political activist.

In 1978, he wrote a book titled "Columbus and Other Cannibals: The Wetiko Disease of Exploitation, Imperialism, and Terrorism."

- And terrorism?

- Mm-hmm.

- And I wanted to include a section of it because I think it shares more of the truth behind the folk tale of it.

I did have to change some words because it was written in '78.

So, this is paraphrased.

(laughs) Could not leave some of these in there.

- Fair enough.

- And honestly, I can't say the name again.

So, blank is a Cree term which refers to a cannibal or more specifically to an evil person or spirit who terrorizes other creatures by means of terrible evil acts including cannibalism.

I have come to the conclusion that imperialism and exploitation are forms of cannibalism and in fact are precisely those forms of cannibalism which are most diabolical or evil.

It should be understood that blank, do not, can't say it, do not eat other humans only in a symbolic sense, the deaths of tens of millions of Jewish people, Slavs, et cetera, at the hands of the Nazis, the deaths of tens of millions of black people in slavery days.

The deaths of up to 30 million or more Indians around the 1500s.

The terribly short lifespans of Mexican Indian farm workers in the US and of Native Americans generally today.

The high death rates in the early industrial centers among factory workers and so on all clearly attest to the fact that the wealthy and exploitativ literally consumed the lives of those they exploit.

That I would affirm is truly and literally cannibalism.

And it is cannibalism accompanied by no spiritually meaningful ceremony or ritual.

It's a perspective that I don't think we're like taught to look.

- Absolutely not.

No.

- Yeah.

And it's... I mean, when I first read that, I sat with it for like a week deciding if I was gonna put it in here or not.

But I think it's so... It's a really good of what the cryptid... I'm not gonna say the name again.

What the cryptid stands for, I can't say the name again.

- So, I do have one question.

- Yeah.

- If you become... - Yes.

(both laughing) - Do you stay in that form or like- - Yes.

- You do?

Okay.

I didn't know if it was like, obviously it sounds like an insatiable appetite, but I didn't know if it was like able to be controlled until it's like too much again and then you just like start growing and then... - I mean, I imagine it would change from culture to culture.

I feel like that's something that it would fluctuate, but I think overall there is that point of no return.

- Okay.

Which makes sense.

- Yeah.

- I like that we just silence.

Okay.

- Hey, I'm hearing too much stuff around here to mess with nature at this point.

- The Westernized version of the blank has become a popular trope in the horror genre.

So, like I remember so clearly watching "Supernatural" for the first time, and it's the second episode, which is in Minnesota, that's the creature they're hunting.

So, one of the damaging parts of it being such a trope in horror genres is that it's like almost entirely... it's almost always added to a narrative, not by native writers, first of all.

And it just like loses all the intention and depth of the folklore behind it.

So, there's a quote that I think sums that up from Francesca Emmy Johnson, and they say the use of the blank as an antagonist has become a common trope as it easily creates a villain for white protagonists to defeat repeatedly, yeah.

We hope you enjoyed this episode.

And if you wanna support us and our station, you can see more behind the scenes content and full length uncut sessions on our Patreon at patreon.com/hiseerie.

(tense music)