>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made at a middle school on Long Island with a 14-year-old named Chris.

Chris told the Associated Press in September of 2024 that he didn't read much, even in his English classes at school.

He said he didn't feel it was necessary.

According to Chris, his teachers gave him detailed chapter summaries of the novels they were discussing, and the teachers also played audio of the books.

Chris told the Associated Press, quote, when you're given a summary of the book telling you what you're about to read in baby form, it kind of just ruins the whole story for you.

Like, what's the point of actually reading?

End quote.

Ouch.

Research shows Chris's experience is not unique.

As the AP reports, it's less common for students across the country to read full novels now than it was in years past.

Instead, teachers are focusing on selected sections of those books.

They point to perceived shorter attention spans and a pressure to get ready for standardized tests, among other reasons.

And formally, in 2022, the National Council of Teachers of English said, quote, the time has come to Decenter book reading and essay writing as the pinnacles of English language arts education.

End quote.

Meanwhile, when it comes to reading for pleasure, one can argue the picture is even bleaker.

According to a study from the University of Florida and University College London, Daily Reading for pleasure among kids is down 40% in just the last 20 years.

It maps out to a sustained decline of about 3% every year.

Experts point to an increase in screen time, overscheduled lives, poor literacy, education.

Those are some of the reasons.

Now, why does all of this matter?

Well, for one, students reading skills have reached new lows.

The New York Times reports that last year's National Assessment of Educational Progress shows the percentage of eighth graders who have below basic reading skills is the lowest it has been in 30 years.

For fourth graders, scores are the worst they've been in 20 years.

How can we help kids improve their skills?

And yeah, find a new love of reading.

Can books even compete anymore?

Our guest this hour will help us explore those questions as we preview an upcoming book festival.

Yes, there are still book festivals.

Yes, there are still bookstores.

And yes, that still matters.

And I really believe that Pamela Bailie believes that's true.

The co-owner of Hipocampo Children's Books am I right?

Pamela?

>> Absolutely.

>> Yes.

Absolutely.

Right there.

nice to have you, by the way.

Thank you for being here.

>> Thanks for having me.

>> Sarah Bonczyk is the co-owner of Lift Bridge Book Shop.

Welcome.

>> Thank you so much for having me.

>> Where's the lift bridge, by the way?

>> We are in Brockport.

>> It's often mentioned on the list, and it's nice to see a lift bridge in our studio.

Thanks for coming in here.

>> Thanks for having us.

Despite our non-working lift bridge, we're still here.

>> Kathleen Blasi is with us.

The author of a number of books is with us in studio here.

Welcome back to the program.

Thanks for being here.

>> Thank you.

Evan, it's nice to be here.

>> And Julie Berry is on the line with us.

The New York New York Times best selling author and the owner of Author's Note, which is where Julie, tell people where you are.

>> We are on Main Street in downtown Medina, New York.

>> And how's Author's Note doing these days?

>> We are having a blast.

It's a really thriving.

>> Well, I'm glad to hear that because, you know, I don't want to be Pollyanna.

I don't want to be like, you know, the guy who's like, well, society's collapsing because kids aren't reading.

But I sort of feel that way.

I have to admit, I feel like I really feel concerned when you see, if you were to look at what teenagers were reading for school and then for pleasure in 1975, 50 years ago, it is such a longer list on both the school side, but in the pleasure side, kids were reading six books a year for pleasure 50 years ago, and now there's plenty of kids who tell us they haven't read a book in the last year.

So let's start with this question.

should I be concerned?

Pamela, are you concerned?

And where do we go with this?

>> All right.

Well thank you.

That's a big question.

but I think I, I would say that I have two feelings about it.

So one is.

Yeah, absolutely.

It is a concern that a lot of kids are not reading.

and especially, I would say like the middle grade and high schoolers are the ones who are kind of dropping off with reading.

but I know part of it is that I do own a bookstore.

I'm there a lot.

So I see a lot of kids come through, and I think that there is a responsibility as well on publishers, on authors, on parents, on family to create and provide books that kids are really going to want to read as well.

And what I'm finding is that our that at our store, we do a, we have a lot of books that are multicultural books, books that are very diverse.

And when a kid comes in and says, like, I don't like to read, I don't really want to read anything, but I can show them a book that reflects something about their own lives.

I will get a turnaround immediately.

And I think this is something that we all need to think about as as we move forward.

Like addressing the fact that kids don't want to read because we're going to keep fighting against phones, iPads, you know, video games, all of that.

But I think when you provide a book to a kid of something that they're interested in, that will just grab them and they move forward with it, I'm too I'm not being pollyannaish.

And it does I even see it with myself.

Like, sometimes I'll be on my phone and I read all the time, and then I'll have to remind myself, put your phone down and read your book that I have to read for work.

But again, I really think that there is that sense of like, let's provide kids with books that reflect their lives to some degree.

open doors and get them excited about things that they don't know anything about.

But I think a kid who sees their face on a cover of a book is going to be more apt to pick it up and want to read it.

>> Well, I want to say that WXXI is a proud media sponsor of the event.

That's not why we're having this conversation, but I'm frankly glad we are.

The Rochester is happening on this Saturday, 10 to 4 at Monroe Community College.

The website is RCSD Fest RCC fest.com.

And we're going to talk a little bit later about all the activities and food trucks.

And I mean, there's so much going on and we'll discuss that this hour here.

But I know they would love to see you at the Children and Teens Book Festival on Saturday, Sarah Bonczyk.

are you as concerned as I am about some of these numbers?

>> It's real.

Your facts are real, right?

So all of these things that we're talking about and we're fighting, they are here, they're advancing technology.

So they're tools.

I think there's a great opportunity, though, to help books and these tools find their place.

And it takes a lot of work.

It takes a lot of work from parents and all the things.

Yes, you've mentioned and everyone that's spending time with children, but it's very possible.

And the book festival is the perfect opportunity, right?

We talk about what we're used to with immediate gratification, with technology.

This festival is immediate gratification.

You have all the authors there, you have illustrators.

You're making the Connections right in front of you in real time.

You can get that book signed.

So the opportunities to continue to foster the interest and the engagement and the representation in books they exist, but, you know, it takes a little work, right?

You got to show up, you got to come to the festival, you got to go to the bookstore.

but if you do those things, they will happen.

They will blossom.

So it just, you know, it takes that little extra work.

But the festival is such a great place to do that because you're going to get that instant gratification, you're going to get representation, you're going to get an opportunity to see and meet and speak with people that, you know, children and parents alike, you know, wouldn't necessarily.

So there's opportunity there.

And each bookstore is representative of their community, right.

So we all have different communities, and we have to also work with that and supporting your community and literature.

They all kind of go hand in hand.

So meeting children and parents where they are and how we can do that is also on us.

And I know that's something that bookstore owners are striving for.

>> But there's plenty of communities that don't have their bookstores that they had generations ago.

Yeah.

You know, and and I'm, I'm not trying to be the guy who's like, well, the the automobile is coming, but the horse and buggy is where it's at.

And why would we ever want I get that technology changes societies, and there's a lot of hand-wringing, and some people get very upset.

I feel like this is a place where it's going to make our lives worse.

If we raise kids and they are not reading and they're not good readers and they're not capable of reading, or they're not desiring to read on their own, I think their lives will be worse.

I think our society will be worse.

>> I think you're absolutely right.

I mean, we can spend time talking about, you know, scientific data and what happens for every human when they're looking at a book, a paper book.

Right.

Let's be clear, not a not a digital book, which again, these things are tools.

They have their place.

But yes, reading is essential.

And, you know, it's more than just the writing part and the analyzing.

It's just creating that space in someone's mind to expand their horizons, to learn things, to imagine things and to grow their own perspective.

You're not going to get elsewhere, really.

And yeah, it's pivotal.

It's important.

and I think there's enough people out there still fighting for it.

We're not going to go down easily or, you know, without kicking or screaming.

And that's a good thing.

because we can see it firsthand in our children.

The reactions we get with, you know, screen time and their behavior and how things change.

So we're seeing it.

But yeah, it's hard.

It's a hard balance with the way things are in the world, for sure.

>> Let me ask Kathleen and Julie about this.

Kathleen after the Bell to Bell book ban took effect late summer into the fall as a lot of states are now doing that, kids can't have their cell phones in schools.

We talked in September to a teenager who described the difference, and she said that people are talking to each other more at lunch.

It's true, she said.

She's reading a little more, but she said she still misses TikTok.

And I asked her, you know, do you read for pleasure?

And she said, no, I'm on TikTok about six hours a day.

And she said, I honestly, even when I'm assigned a book for school, if I read for 5 or 10 minutes, I feel like I'm missing something in social and I just can't focus anymore.

And to me, that was an alarm bell.

That's a crisis.

If kids are feeling that way.

You're an author, you know.

Where do you see?

What do you see as the state of of the literature, landscape?

And what do you do?

You have concerns about the future?

>> I absolutely do.

I had the pleasure of my my children being kind of old right now, 33 and 31, and I didn't have to compete with the things parents today have to compete with.

I had a bookshelf of books, and they would just go over there, and one of them was more interested in throwing the books, but eventually she would sit down and read them.

yeah, it's very concerning to me.

And sometimes I feel the same way.

Am I just being overly sentimental about the way it used to be?

but I do believe, Evan, that there are things that we can still do.

It just takes more effort.

And you touched.

You both touched on it.

Pamela and Sarah.

It's almost like you have to be more.

You have a curated effort to bring books to your kids and connecting with them not only in its content, you know, for the high interest, but also I write for young readers.

Julie can speak to this more so for the older readers, but my as a writer, I'm always looking for connection because I want that child to read that picture book again, or have it read to them.

And there is something so valuable and beautiful about the physical connection of reading.

And if we do that with our young, our young ones, I'm hopeful that it will carry through.

I. I don't have the answers on how to to to fight this.

It does break my heart, but I think banning the phones in school is just sort of about time.

I mean, I can't imagine being a teacher and competing with that.

And you're trying to impart knowledge and inspiration.

And how do you do that?

And, and these, these children and adults too, that, that tug of war in your brain with looking at your phone, a fear of missing something, it just it is it is truly frightening.

I don't think that we're exaggerating on this.

>> Yeah.

I mean, even I admit, I even think about it with my almost four month old who last night we were reading Frog and Toad, which, I gotta admit, read a story from Frog and Toad and said to his mom, I don't think I want to read that one again.

I did not love the message of this one.

I mean, but, you know, my son's almost four months, and I'm like, explaining to him, like, I don't think I love this message, but.

And he was like, fine.

he actually didn't say anything.

That would have been a miracle.

But but even I worry, as I, we read with him that do I have a screen on?

Is he distracted by a screen?

Does he see a phone out?

Does he?

Is there a television on somewhere?

Because the screen does pop and even babies see it.

And reading is a habit and it has to be cultivated early.

I mean, your work starting with early, early attention spans.

I mean.

that's such a good point.

Competition.

>> The role modeling is huge.

to say, you know, put your phone down, don't have it at dinner, and then you have yours right there.

Just the role modeling is important.

Pick up a book, pick up a physical book, put your phone aside.

have have alerts that are specific to the level of importance, things like that.

So I think we need to, you know, we can all walk the walk a little bit more to.

>> I don't know about Frog and Toad, by the way.

It's just I mean.

>> I didn't write.

>> That one.

>> Let me bring in Julie Berry.

Julie, how do you feel about the state of of children's literature and and where it's going?

>> Well, I am sort of both alarmist and Pollyanna ish, and I've been thinking about, you know, your question is.

Well, put, the way I see it, and I do come at it both from the standpoint of being.

an author of picture books, middle grade novels and teen novels, as well as being a bookstore owner.

Here's what I think is really going on.

Publishers need to make money.

They need to publish new books, new books coming out in hardcover is where, you know, booksellers make their money, where librarians buy books, hardcover books are how authors can make a living writing and publishing books.

And especially when we look at middle grade, as Sarah said, it's middle grade and and teen.

That's where the problem enters in.

And that's often coinciding with when kids have a little bit more media autonomy.

But because people are not buying new titles by new authors, they are buying little House on the Prairie and they're buying the things that they loved when they were young, like Anne of Green Gables, which I admit are, you know, precious titles which I adore.

But because people are buying old nostalgic titles, a couple of things are happening.

First of all, publishers are buying less.

They're buying fewer manuscripts from authors like me.

So the market is shrinking for people who want to make a living creating stories.

Because publishers are buying less, because stores are buying less of them, because people are buying less of them.

If you look at the middle grade New York Times bestseller list for the last, let's say, six months on average, I would say those titles are approximately 15 to 20 years old, and that includes much older titles.

A couple recent ones, like Wimpy Kid and whatnot.

So what's going on is teachers are teaching books in school for the entire duration of their 40 year career that were old when they were in school, and people, they have a lesson plan and they use it year after year.

Parents and grandparents who buy books for children by their childhood favorites and even like Frog and Toad.

Right.

And it's understandable because we have all this nostalgia surrounding our childhood memories around our favorite books.

But what's happening is that children not only don't see themselves culturally or ethnically represented, but they don't even see their generation showing up on the page.

And so it's really a bad spiral.

I think we have to stop saying, oh, no, kids are not reading.

They're looking at their phones and say, oh, no, parents and grandparents need to buy new books for their kids and then sit down and read the first chapter together.

And I feel very optimistic that that will change things.

And in concert with, you know, the phone ban in schools, I think that's important as well.

But it's parents who, by middle grade and teen fiction, it's not kids for the most part, buying it with their own money.

Some teens have some spending money.

It's parents and grandparents who buy books.

And so my plea to the industry and to people who care about literacy and the future of an industry that keeps putting new books into the world is buy a new title in hardcover if at all possible, or buy a recent paperback and show it to a kid and read at least a chapter with them.

I find that kids are still absolutely hooked by stories.

It's really the adult behavior that we have to look at.

And and I think we need to stop throwing our hands in the air and feeling that kids affinity for technology is just the inevitable death knell of their interest in books.

It's just not the case.

But we need to put more effort in to creating a culture that understands that if we don't buy new books, we won't have books.

And if we don't have books, we won't have readers.

And if we don't have readers, we won't have democracy.

And I do think the stakes are that high.

But I also think there's plenty we can do about it.

And my my hope is that we can kind of create a grassroots awareness campaign just as bookstores invented, shop local, and now all stores and towns really embrace this.

And many people have a powerful sense that shopping local is a good thing, that they ought to do.

I think if we could create a sense that people should buy new books that will make a meaningful difference.

>> Well, Julie, related to your point that kids love stories, let me read this comment from a listener because over time, the evolution of of the printing press has taken us from, you know, in its early days, it's like, oh no, we're going to democratize books.

And not just the elite are going to be able to read.

And should we stop the public from the masses from getting their hands on books?

And everybody wants books and people want to read to learn.

People want to read, to be entertained.

Now, as a listener points out, it becomes this transition that early in your life, books are exciting and then it becomes a chore or a can.

And that's dangerous.

Here's Evie says, all little kids love stories.

They all love being read to.

What happens between that and the high schooler who now sees reading as a punishment.

Julie.

What?

What happens to transition a a toddler who loves being read to to a high schooler who thinks if they have to read it to punishment?

>> I think it comes back to we are afraid to present children with books that reflect the world today.

And I don't understand that fear, but we are much more prone to showing them books that feel like fossils to them, things that are so removed from their present life that it's like history, homework and and so if we can keep books fresh and new and funny and speaking their language, I think that's going to go a long way.

And of course, it also means that people at home need to do more reading to kids.

And, you know, look, it's a tough economy.

Parents are stressed out working multiple jobs to make ends meet.

So all these things do come into play.

But I really believe firmly that it's new books, new authors, new voices for new humans, that that's going to be what keeps reading relevant, keeps it contemporary, keeps it feeling like, yeah, this is this is about my life, not about the life of people who had, you know, covered wagons.

>> Pamela Bailie, co-owner of hippocampal book in Rochester, was making, I think, a similar point earlier but extending on what Julie is saying, that does require parents and grandparents to do a little work to get a little more current, doesn't it?

>> Yeah.

I think parents and grandparents and also every other like I think what Julie said was just absolutely spot on.

It it every other adult that's in children's lives, you know there's a book that somebody was trying to get for their ten, 11-year-old that the main character had a pager.

This was a kid who had a pager, and this was a book that was written in, like the 1980s, 1990s.

And so we were going through it and we were like, wait, this doesn't even reflect this child's, you know, this child's experience at all.

Like some kids today don't even know what a pager is.

So I think that that what Julie said is absolutely spot on.

And I think it and I really like what she said too, because it's not just about reflecting a child's experiences, but it's also reflecting the generation that children live in.

And when I think about books that kids get drawn to, it's often books that reflect our generation, books that reflect circumstances that they're going through, whether it might be like anxiety or questioning what's going on in the world, books about kids that are all taking control over things.

yeah.

So I, I totally agree.

And in the same time, I have to give a slight shameless plug, but my partner, Henry Padron just wrote a book called dose two, which is a book about a little girl named Clarita who lives in.

She's Puerto Rican and and Nuyorican.

So she's, she's from New York City.

And her experience, the book is written in two languages.

It's written in English and Spanish.

And a book like that has really gained a lot of traction over the last month, month and a half since it's come out, because it is reflecting the experiences of many people, not just people who are Spanish and English speakers, but people who experience to to ways of being in their lives.

So it might be two languages, it might be the way they are at home is the way different when they're at school.

And so when we bring that book out for kids, they are just absolutely love it.

The illustrations are great.

They are done by a U of R graduate student as well.

But the the big connector there though is connecting language and culture to the children.

And I think it's very important and to see like a kid come to the bookstore and say, I want to get that dose two book, they're thrilled and excited.

So I'm not as pessimistic as, as you were talking about.

I see a lot of enjoyment, but I think it really is bringing the stories to the kids.

>> Sarah Bonczyk making sure books don't become a penalty or a chore for kids.

How do we do that?

>> So I can speak from experience.

We have four sons.

They range from age 10 to 22, so I've watched the oldest, you know, go through school, high school, college, and all of our children range in interest in preference for reading, for pleasure.

one thing I can say is, is you have to meet kids where their interests are.

and they have to have access to books.

Right.

So in schools, especially our public schools, we are leaving our children, you know, 6 to 7 hours a day with these teachers who are amazing people.

This is no discredit to our teachers, but the resources they have to work with and the options and the access and the, you know, the budget for books, we don't see that, really.

And that's a challenge because this is where our children spend a large part of their day.

And this is where I've watched my older two slowly, you know, fall off that reading for pleasure scale because it became a chore and it was challenging.

Or if reading is a challenge for a child, what that experience is like to have to go to school every day and struggle.

So it's very multifaceted.

But trying to bring all that into context, because we have children and we're going through it I really think the representation is super important.

Yes, it is very important to have more options, especially in our schools that are more current books and reading that is more current because it's going to be more engaging.

But, you know, for most part, at least in our high schools, with our second oldest, there weren't many books in paper, you know, touching that they were reading.

It was digital.

So these experiences are changing their fundamentals and what they're getting.

So it puts a lot more pressure on parents to to work harder to keep them interested in the books.

The choices are there.

The representation are there.

It's access to.

Right.

So whether you're talking about a community that doesn't have a bookstore, there is there's bookstore deserts and people that can't just go and get books or they're in school settings where it's just not accessible I think is a huge point to think about.

But we spend a lot of time reading and we're we're reading.

My husband and I are reading picture books.

We're reading middle grade fiction.

Young adult, I love your new book, Julie.

It's phenomenal.

so.

thank you.

Yeah, absolutely.

So but this is what we do for a living, and it's hyper focus for us.

So it's hard for people.

It's very multifaceted.

We can sit here and talk about a lot of different things, but I think it's really important to to just kind of touch on that fact that with children and what they're experiencing.

But there's there's so many good schools.

I just delivered books the other day.

They're bringing in authors.

They're making those Connections.

So I'm going to come back to the book festival.

Being this amazing opportunity to give a child an experience that they they will remember to give the experience of putting those things face to face, hand to hand.

And that goes a long way.

>> I'm going to talk about the festival in our second half hour here in a lot more depth.

Here.

Evie does, I will say, Kathleen, follow up to say the the email or followed up to say a little pushback says classics are still relevant and necessary in many ways.

Schools still reading for kids.

So how it's presented not just as homework or not just as the penalty or you know, what you have to do.

But are you inspiring kids to read?

Do you trust schools to inspire kids to want to read?

>> Evan.

>> I want to.

I, I understand, respect the time constraints and the testing and all of that that plays into sort of dictating what teachers do in schools.

I am admittedly a little bit removed from this, but I can speak to it's clearly an issue.

So from my perspective, what what could I do if I'm not?

You know, if I don't have school aged children now?

But I see them all the time.

I visit schools, I do writing workshops with third graders and I want to say that bringing them to the library and to independent bookstores especially is huge, because people like Pamela and Sarah and John and they you walk in and they can help you find the book.

So I can't I will say, I can't fix what's going on in schools, but what else could we could we do?

The Rochester Children's Book Festival?

I know we're going to touch on that a little bit later, but those close Connections with the creators of these books is hugely important.

I remember I didn't have an author visit my school ever when I was a kid.

I would have loved that.

I didn't experience it until my older daughter, Patricia Polacco, came to her school and I was I was gobsmacked and I thought, wow, that's so powerful.

This is just a real person.

So bringing the creators to the kids or the kids to the creators, I think is big.

Going into the bookstores and curating those reading lists and not judging them by what maybe you as a parent would want them to read, but just get them reading.

So I again, I'm sorry, I can't really speak to the school situation.

I'm not really.

>> No, I think it's fair.

But I'll tell you what though, I remember so little of my time at Dover Elementary School, and I remember when the author of Nora and Mrs.

Mind Your Own Business came and I was like, whoa, yeah.

The actual author of the book here is like, here.

And you can, like, talk to her.

It was a big deal.

I thought it was an amazing thing.

>> It is a.

>> Big deal.

And it's one of the Mrs.

Thompson librarian at Dover Elementary.

Shout out to Mrs.

Thompson.

Thank you for always bringing authors in.

And I want to echo Kathleen's point, it changed the way I thought of books.

I thought there were these inaccessible.

And I'm like, whoa.

And it lit me up.

And I still remember.

I remember very little.

And I remember what that library looked like.

And I remember probably what I was wearing that day.

It's it's wild what kids will remember when you make it more accessible, when you make it more real.

we are way late for a break.

And what we're going to do on the other side is this we have a lot of emails.

People are very fired up about this, which is good if means probably you need to get out to hippocampal or lift bridge or pick up Julie or Kathleen's work and share it and maybe talk to kids about reading and in ways that isn't like, did you do your homework?

But like, hey, I want to read that too.

You know, like, let's do that because we're talking about the decline in the number of books that kids, teenagers, young children are reading, but also some of the antidotes for that.

And on Saturday, from 10 to 4, Monroe Community College, it's the Rochester Children and Teens Book Festival.

WXXI is a proud media sponsor of that event.

You can see more at RCB Ebsco.com.

On the other side of this break, I want to ask one other question of this panel.

I want to know what they think about this idea that more schools are deciding.

We can't really expect students to read the full book.

We'll do like a chapter or we'll do sections of books or a bridge parts.

Maybe I'm old school too much.

I heard that and I was like, whoa, I don't love that.

but then we're going to get into the festival.

What's coming up here?

And we're getting a lot of email to share.

So let's take that break.

We'll come right back on Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson Friday on the next Connections, we have a former Biden White House official joining us.

The former director of the Biden administration's Office of Environmental Justice.

That department is essentially eliminated in the Trump administration.

They don't really view environmental justice as a thing, but we're going to talk to the former Biden White House official who is in Rochester, to talk about how she sees environmental justice now and in the future.

>> Should ancient vehicles be sold, donated, recycled?

>> Would you like to buy my minivan?

>> I would not like to buy your minivan.

>> And what happens to all the metal and hazardous fluids?

Our reporter parts with the family Vanny, who's 20 years old, with 183,000 miles and.

>> All in one.

>> It has wasps.

The fate of Vanny on the next.

All Things Considered.

From NPR news.

>> This afternoon at four.

>> This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Let me start the second fr with Lisa.

Well, it's 138.

It's late.

Lisa in Rochester on the phone.

Hey, Lisa, go ahead.

>> Hi.

I just wanted to speak to what the the one of your speakers had just said about reaching kids where they are because it's embarrassing to say this.

Now, at my advanced age.

But when I started reading all we had in the house was a set of encyclopedias.

And the last Mohicans.

I was reading my mother's romance novels to start reading, but that's what got me reading.

And now, you know, I don't even turn on the TV.

I read all the time.

I'm an attorney, but I wouldn't have started reading if there hadn't been something that got me going.

And so, yeah, we should, you know, humble ourselves, and, you know, reach kids where they are.

>> Thank you for that, Lisa.

and again, take some, some work to do it.

But I mean, the message this hour from Pamela Bailie at Hipocampo is it is worth it.

>> Yeah, absolutely.

I love Lisa's I love what Lisa just said.

That is just perfect and I do I actually do find that also at the bookstore where we'll have, like, young people come in and, and that's what they want is a romance novel.

Like it's just that's the only thing that they're going to read.

So I just love what she said.

And I think that it is absolutely true.

We just have to meet the kids where they are and make sure that they can see themselves, you know, reflected in those books.

I think it's really important.

>> Jim writes in to say, why read a 700 page book when you can get 750 word summaries in seconds?

Okay, that's the A.I.

question, or that's the students are just going to do the summaries thing, and Sarah's hand went right up on that one.

So go ahead.

Sarah Bonczyk, owner of Lift Bridge Book Shop.. >> Going back to that prior comment, there should also be no shame in what you're reading.

So maybe that 700 page book is not for you.

And that's okay.

Like please know that, right?

Reading is reading.

So you have to find something.

You know, in general for reading for pleasure.

And maybe it isn't that, but there is a definite bridge that can be found in between children.

And that whole concept of this is not enjoyable.

and it feels like torture, right?

And especially for a struggling reader, which I've watched my own children go through that.

And it's heartbreaking because they want to be there at the table with their peers.

But, you know, does any child going through the pressure and the shame of not being able to keep up or not understanding or just whatever it is, we got to remember they're little humans.

They've got other things in their brain.

So this isn't necessarily a black and white challenge here.

This very multifaceted, but there is the time and the space for reading.

And it needs to be fostered.

So technology has a purpose and it's going to be utilized.

Absolutely.

But to continue to be able to read and process what you're reading at your speed is going to be pivotal for any child, young adult and adult to continue to be an independent thinker.

>> What about the idea that some classrooms, even in high schools, they're telling they're telling students, all right, we're not going to do the full book.

We're going to do an abridgment.

We're going to do a section.

In 2022, the National Council of Teachers of English said, quote, the time has come to Decenter book reading and essay writing as the pinnacles of English language arts education.

And the AP reported about this trend towards teachers focusing on just sections of books and saying, we're just going to read a section we're not going to do.

We're not going to do The Scarlet Letter in full.

We'll do a section, we'll talk about a theme, or maybe we'll do a summary.

You good with that?

>> Not at all.

>> Okay.

Right.

>> Me either.

>> So I was just interviewed by a young man from Suny Brockport, right in a college town.

And the communication we receive reaching out from these young adults and communicating to requests just to interview us or speak with us is sometimes really sad.

Right.

And but it's it's in context.

This is what they've been taught or told that this is acceptable.

And not to say that we can't be flexible and figure out the balance, but, you know, to get a message from a young adult who is in a journalism class to write you in the context of a text message concerns me.

So I highly disagree.

There really is a need for this.

We need to continue it.

Maybe it needs to be adjusted.

Absolutely.

There's always room to adjust, but to take that off the table is such a such a mistake to to see our young adults not being able to communicate, you know, and it's a it's more than just analyzing the book.

Right.

It's it's learning how to process, how to think, how to expand your horizon and, and also how to communicate with people.

>> Kathleen, are you good with just teaching sections of books now for kids?

Not the whole book.

>> No, not at all.

I have to do it.

So they do too.

>> Just kidding.

>> I am not,.

No.

the life lesson there is a little scary.

Let's take a shortcut.

Right?

That's not as going forward.

We don't want the lessons to be take a shortcut.

I think by reading an entire text and having to analyze it.

again, you're, you're you're building lots of great skills there.

Communications analysis.

it does beg the question, though, that if you want to read something that's shortened, why?

Why maybe you don't like what you're reading.

So let's make some different choices.

And does it have to be the Scarlet Letter?

I mean, I hate to say no, but I'm just saying instead of changing the process and the way that and the skills that can be garnered from reading a full text, how about we change the text?

>> Yeah, I mean, Julie Berry to me, again, this is me being maybe a little old school, but it feels like something is broken in the process if we're just giving up and saying, all right, let's just do a section of the book, or we'll just do the main themes.

We won't read the whole book, you know, it's like the parent is like my child did not want to eat their vegetables.

And I was like, all right, it's going to be ice cream every night for dinner now.

But we'll do like a bite of of the vegetable, like we'll do a bite like, I mean, like, I don't think that would be acceptable.

And I don't like even comparing this to the broccoli, because books are not broccoli.

Books are the dessert.

Books are the steak.

But it feels like teachers are treating it that way when they give up.

That's that's easy for me to say, Julie, I'm not in the classroom teaching, but I don't love this trend.

What do you think?

>> Well, I agree, but I would say that if you took that high school class that can't digest The Scarlet Letter and you instead assign them a contemporary graphic novel, I guarantee we would not have a problem with the kids finishing the book, and I think we need to remember that those of us who are like literature fatty, right?

Like we've devoted our lives to stories.

We've majored in English or related fields.

Right?

We love literature.

We love historical classics.

We love them with all our hearts.

And that's great.

But we shouldn't.

We shouldn't treat the world of potential readers like they all should end up as English majors like us.

And so I feel that we are so stuck in our ways of teaching these arcane titles, which are again, magnificent.

Touchstone, historical gems.

But I think that we should look anytime we have a chance to put a book in a kid's hands and ask or require them to read it, I think we should ask ourselves, what if this was the only book they ever read?

And this is my one chance to hook them on a love of reading.

What would I give them?

Would it be The Scarlet Letter?

I doubt it, and the reason I say why we should think of it as the only book.

I am from Medina, New York.

I grew up there.

I lived away from Medina for 30 years.

Five years ago I came back and bought the bookstore.

But all through those years, when I was launching my author career, I would always come back to Medina and do a school visit any time I had a new book coming.

out.

And so Medina was used to Julie Berry showing up every now and then.

When I opened the bookstore.

This generation of, you know, young 20 somethings kept coming into the store and like getting a kind of misty eyed at me and saying, your book was my favorite book I read as a kid.

I thought, oh, isn't that sweet?

And and for a minute I thought maybe it was because I'm a good writer.

And then I realized, oh, my gosh, it's the only book they read.

It's the only novel they read all by themselves.

And it's because I came to town.

They saw me and somebody with a grant gave every kid a copy.

And for some reason, that author visit experience got them to read that book.

And so what that makes me think is if if these kids really are only going to have 1 or 2 bites at the apple, let's not give them flowers for Algernon.

Let's not give them these these dated things.

I know I'm banging that drum, but if we give them stories that are that are suited to their interests, we shouldn't.

If we're saying that the alternatives are the Scarlet Letter or video games, then we shouldn't have an objection to a graphic novel.

And and I kind of, when you ask, is the fault of schools?

Look, I don't ever want to blame schools.

Teachers have a hard job, but I do get a little thorny when I see the the thousands and millions that are spent on technology for schools or on the latest football equipment.

But the English class doesn't get a new set of 30 copies of something fresh and new.

I'm here to tell you, as a bookstore owner, if an English teacher comes to me and says, I really need 30 copies of this book and I don't have the funds, I'm going to work with you to get you those books.

I'm going to work with you to find the funds.

I'm going to discount those books because kids need new reads.

They need something that's fun for them.

Give them one book to hook them.

And if they love that graphic novel, then you can get them another one and then another one, and then maybe one.

That's a little more wordy.

And then someday they will be reading The Hobbit and Dune and whatever else you want them to read.

But if we if we really maybe only have a couple bites at that apple, does it have to be Mob *?

I don't think.

>> So.

>> yeah.

I don't know if Fountainhead is going to be the starter.

so yeah, yeah.

Go ahead.

>> Yeah.

I just have one one quick thing to say, which is that the, the way that the education system is today my kids just graduated out of it, so is this very test prep heavy?

So I actually can see why it.

Is that what you just said is happening?

The teachers only have so much time to teach, and they need to get that information lodged into the child's head so they can take the test and do well on the test to move forward.

So I actually can see that to some degree.

I don't like it, but I could see it.

But one thing that I think is really great, and I think this just happened in the RCSD this last week, was it or the week before?

Is that dear program, the drop everything and read?

I think the big thing is giving kids the time to read.

And you said in the beginning of an of of this that, you know, kids are they're overscheduled, they're doing all of these different things all day long.

By the end of the day, sometimes they're just so exhausted.

I'm not saying video games are the right way to deal with your exhaustion, but that is what happens.

But if schools could give kids a chance to drop everything and read 15 20 minutes a day, or even every other day, whatever it is, choose their own book.

Choose something that's interesting to them.

That's not given by the school.

I really think that that could be a wonderful way to help.

mitigate some of these things that we're talking about.

>> Kate writes in to say, would you like to know who is creating, writing, purchasing and offering current and relevant books to children, black and Latino families?

Our children have been underrepresented or underrepresented in literature.

Historically, we have had to bridge that gap for ourselves.

We write, publish, and purchase for us.

>> Absolutely.

>> That's from Kate.

Thank you, Kate, and let me squeeze in a few phone calls before we talk about this festival and get you all set for the weekend.

Michael in Fairport.

Hey, Michael.

Go ahead.

You got to keep it tight.

>> Okay?

Hello, Evan.

I wanted to let people know about the two.

Dolly Parton imagination libraries that exist here in Monroe County.

One one covers all the kids that live in the city of Rochester.

run by Dr.

Matt.

Present, who, you know, and, I started one almost two years ago for the children that live in the East Rochester School District, and we mailed free books to kids every month.

from the time they're born until they turn five.

And all the parents have to do is go online and register.

Register their kids so they get the books, they come in the mail every month, and the advantage is that it gets kids used to used to reading to like books.

Helps them with their vocabulary, imagination.

So it's a really good program.

And these these exist all over the country.

Matter of fact, there are actually five different countries.

>> Yeah, absolutely.

Michael, we've talked about Dolly Parton, Imagination Library here.

Thank you for the phone call.

we love the service.

we love Dolly Parton.

You know, a lot of love for Dolly on this.

And that's.

No, it's it's really one of the good ones.

so if you're not hooked up with some kind of a program for your kids to start reading, there's something out there.

It might be Dolly Parton, Imagination Library.

It might be just working with your local bookstore.

It might be getting to know your local librarian and finding out what's out there.

But that's really good stuff there.

Sheila writes in to say says, I agree with Evie as a teacher, classics are important.

It allows students to access generations worth of common knowledge and understanding of issues.

For example, the recent Great Gatsby party held in Washington.

If a student had not read Gatsby, they would not understand any of the subtext or patterns that literature allows.

The biggest answer to the question why do kids stop reading?

Is simply this students are tired of being tested on their reading skills all the time.

Ask an elementary child.

They will tell you so that's tough because I get it.

Sheila.

Like, I mean, as a teacher, the system is asking you to assess, assess, assess, put a grade on it, put a grade on it.

But Sheila is saying the more you do that, the more kids view this as the chore, not the joy.

And that's tough.

Thank you for that.

let's get drew in.

Rush next.

Hey, drew.

Got to keep it tight.

Go ahead.

>> We'll do.

>> I just wanted to comment on the children's interest is often how they lead my dyslexic son needed to find the Harry Potter movies and then the books in order to be inspired to read the series.

My daughter began her reading adventure, believe it or not, on fanfiction, and it's important to think that we may not always be comfortable with all of the subject matter these children would like to read on their own, and we need to get okay with working through that subject matter with them.

If it indeed lets them read.

And that's all.

>> Drew.

Thank you.

Anyone want to jump in on that?

>> I would love to.

I sadly hear often when someone who's a little older, you know, and not to put that against anyone but someone brings in a young child and there's that generational gap and they pick up a graphic novel and I hear them say, that's not a book.

I brought you here to get a book.

And it breaks my heart.

So yes, again, no shame in what you know, you're looking for.

What what connects with you.

Because that is how you crush that.

And that's so sad to hear.

So yes, meeting the kids where they are, what their interests are.

However, that looks like it's okay.

It might be uncomfortable, but the world is changing.

So we have a lot of uncomfortable things.

So like let's let's be okay with this.

>> Drew.

Thank you.

Miles says they just brought back Reading Rainbow.

All right.

There you go.

and we cannot let this hour vanish without mentioning a little bit about I got this list of things that are happening on Saturday.

So at the Rochester Children, which is 10 to 4 on Saturday at Monroe Community College, there's activities for children and teens.

There's more than 50 authors and illustrators.

ASL interpreters will be there.

There will be signed books, food trucks and the teen scene is new this year.

They're welcoming tweens and teens to the festival with activities and special programing and authors that they will probably know.

So it's it's going to be packed with a lot of stuff going on here.

and I don't.

Kathleen, are you going to be there?

>> I will be there.

>> Yes.

All right, I will.

>> I love when authors are in like like I mentioned, I love when kids can meet the authors there.

>> It's truly an honor to be there.

I've been involved with the organization who runs a book festival for more than 20 years and started out as a volunteer.

I still volunteer, but not as big of a role as I used to, and I will be there with my book, Milo's Moonlight Mission, which was just rereleased in August.

And among, you know, more than 50 other authors and illustrators, and very excited that this year we have expanded our offerings to tweens and teens.

Officially, there's always been scattered books for everyone, but this time it is truly by design.

There's crafts, there's dedicated space for the tweens and teens, and the mission of the festival is, of course, to celebrate and promote literacy.

And it's the directors of the festival.

And the organizers are very proud of the fact that the authors and illustrators reflect our diverse community, and that is truly by design.

And it's quite a celebration.

And there is something for everyone.

Tots to teens.

>> We've got one of your books in my house.

>> lovely.

>> Absolutely.

But let me ask Julie Berry about the idea of tweens and teens and making sure there's space for everybody.

What do you think, Julie?

>> Oh, absolutely.

I'm so excited that the Rochester Festival is moving more decisively in that direction.

I've seen teen festivals just explode all over the country.

The idea that teens aren't interested in books is, is really erroneous.

In spite of all the the, you know, alarming news that we hear.

And I think Rochester has always been a leader in creating these experiences.

It's going to be a wonderful festival.

I'll be there.

Also.

I'm really looking forward.

>> To it.

>> Awesome.

Sarah Bonczyk.

What are you looking forward to?

>> It's an amazing day.

It is action packed, so I hope to see everybody there.

Right.

Ideally and just to say, yes, you can come and buy a book, right.

That's great.

That's, that's obviously a goal of ours.

But know that you can come and not spend a dime.

There are so many things this festival is free.

the events that are going on, you know, and engagements, those things, those things are free.

And it's still a great opportunity.

You know, hopefully people can buy books and get those personalized right and have that lasting impression and memory.

but if not, it's a great opportunity to meet the illustrators, to meet the authors, make that connection and utilize your library.

So this is a wonderful day, and we just really hope that people can make it.

>> RCB Fest.

Com Saturday 10 to 4 Monroe Community College.

If you go out to Brockport where that's where you will find Sarah Bonczyk and Lift Bridge Book Shop.

>> Absolutely.

45 Main Street right in downtown Brockport and been there 53 years.

Hopefully going to keep going.

>> Support local books.

If you head west of Rochester, you might eventually bump into Julie Berry and Author's Note in Medina.

And Julie, thank you for taking time to join the program today.

Great having you.

I know they'll see you at the festival on Saturday.

>> Wonderful.

Thanks so much.

>> Pam Pamela Bailie, co-owner of Hipocampo Children's Books.

Where are people going to find you?

>> We're over on South Avenue, 638 South Avenue and come visit.

>> Support your local books.

Thanks for being here.

Pamela and Kathleen Blasi, author of a number of children's books.

The next one is coming out when.

>> New one coming out September of 26, and it's called Two by Two, a World War II friendship story.

>> Well, thank you for being here.

>> We really.

>> Appreciate you.

Great conversation, listeners.

We did not even get to all your emails.

I know that this hour we got flooded.

People are really, really engaged with this.

So that means we will have to stay on top of this and sometime maybe over the winter break.

We'll talk to kids about this, bring back a panel of kids from all of us at Connections.

Thanks for watching on YouTube.

Hope you subscribe there.

Thanks for listening and we're back with you tomorrow on member Supported Public Media.

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