HAWAI'I HAS HIT A MAJOR MILESTONE IN THE FIGHT AGAINST COVID-19.

MORE THAN HALF OF THE STATE'S POPULATION IS FULLY VACCINATED AND AN EVEN HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF RESIDENTS HAVE GOTTEN AT LEAST ONE SHOT.

BUT WITH THE PACE OF VACCINATIONS SLOWING, CAN WE STILL REACH HERD IMMUNITY AND IF SO, WHEN?

WE'LL GET A PROGRESS REPORT, PLUS TALK ABOUT WHAT'S LEGAL, WHAT'S SAFE AND WHAT'S RIGHT WHEN IT COMES TO VACCINE REQUIREMENTS.

TONIGHT'S LIVE BROADCAST AND LIVESTREAM OF INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAI'I START NOW.

¶ ¶ >>Yunji: ALOHA AND WELCOME TO INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAI'I.

I'M YUNJI DE NIES.

AS OF TODAY HAWAI'I HAS ADMINISTERED NEARLY 1.6 MILLION COVID-19 VACCINE SHOTS.

THAT'S ABOUT 54% OF THE STATE POPULATION.

WHILE HAWAI'I HAS ONE OF THE HIGHEST VACCINATION RATES IN THE COUNTRY, DEMAND FOR SHOTS HAS BEEN DWINDLING AND THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH HAS BEEN ORDERING FEWER DOSES.

WILL VACCINE HESITANCY THREATEN OUR CHANCE AT HERD IMMUNITY?

AND WHAT ARE THE LEGAL RAMIFICATIONS FOR VACCINE MANDATES?

WE'LL ASK OUR PANEL TONIGHT.

WE LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR PARTICIPATION IN TONIGHT'S SHOW.

YOU CAN EMAIL, CALL OR TWEET YOUR QUESTIONS.

AND YOU'LL FIND A LIVE STREAM OF THIS PROGRAM AT PBSHAWAII.ORG AND THE PBS HAWAII FACEBOOK PAGE.

NOW, TO OUR GUESTS.

HILTON RAETHEL IS THE PRESIDENT AND CEO OF THE HEALTHCARE ASSOCIATION OF HAWAI'I.

THE NON-PROFIT REPRESENTS 170 HEALTHCARE ORGANIZATIONS, INCLUDING HOSPITALS, SKILLED NURSING AND ASSISTED LIVING FACILITIES AND HOSPICES.

LOLA HIROKO IRVIN IS THE ADMINISTRATOR OF CHRONIC DISEASE PREVENTION AND HEALTH PROMOTION AT THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH.

THE DIVISION WORKS TO PROMOTE WELLNESS THROUGH PREVENTION, DETECTION AND MANAGEMENT OF CHRONIC DISEASES.

JESSICA GASIOREK IS AN ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR IN THE COMMUNICOLOGY DEPARTMENT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF HAWAI'I AT MANOA.

HER RESEARCH LOOKS AT HOW PEOPLE PROCESS MESSAGES, ADJUST THEIR COMMUNICATION FOR DIFFERENT CONTEXTS AND HOW SOCIAL IDENTITY AFFECTS COMMUNICATION.

AND RON BROWN IS A PROFESSOR AT THE WILLIAM S. RICHARDSON SCHOOL OF LAW.

HIS TEACHING SPECIALTIES INCLUDE LABOR AND EMPLOYMENT LAW, EMPLOYMENT DISCRIMINATION, ARBITRATION AND U-S / CHINA LABOR AND EMPLOYMENT LAW.

BEFORE WE GET TO QUESTIONS, WE WANT TO LAY OUT SOME BENCHMARKS THAT THE GOVERNOR HAS IN HIS PLANS.

STARTING ON JUNE 15TH, INTER-ISLAND TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS WILL BE LIFTED AND PASSENGERS WHO HAVE BEEN VACCINATED IN HAWAI'I CAN BYPASS QUARANTINE WITHOUT A PRE-TRAVEL TEST.

AT THE 60-PERCENT VACCINATION RATE, PASSENGERS TRAVELING DOMESTICALLY CAN SKIP QUARANTINE WITH PROOF OF VACCINATION.

SOCIAL GATHERINGS CAN INCREASE TO 25 PEOPLE INDOORS, 75 OUTDOORS AND RESTAURANTS CAN OPERATE AT UP TO 75-PERCENT CAPACITY.

WHEN THE STATE REACHES A 70-PERCENT VACCINATION RATE ALL TRAVEL, SOCIAL GATHERING AND RESTAURANT RESTRICTIONS WILL BE LIFTED.

HILTON, HOW SOON DO YOU THINK WE COULD GET TO THE BENCHMARKS LAID OUT BY THE GOVERNOR?

60 AND 70%.

HOW REALISTIC WE'LL GET THERE ANY TIME SOON?

>> THESE ARE AGGRESSIVE BENCHMARKS.

WE HAVE AS OF TODAY ALMOST 1.6 MILLION DOSES ADMINISTERED.

TO GET TO 60%, WE NEED 1.7, 3 MILLION DOSES TO GET TO 70%, WE NEED TWO MILLION DOSES.

AS OF TODAY WE NEED 138,000, ALMOST 240,000 TO GET TO THE 60% LEVEL.

AND ANOTHER 400,000 DOSES ADMINISTERED TO GET TO THE 70%.

YOU MENTIONED THAT THE DEMAND HAS DROPPED OFF FAIRLY DRAMATICALLY THE LAST TWO, 3 WEEKS.

WE DO NOT KNOW YET.

TOO EARLY TO SEE HOW MUCH THE -- HOW MUCH OF AN IMPACT THESE INCENTIVES WILL HAVE.

WE ARE HOPING THEY WILL HAVE AN IMPACT.

AT THE CURRENT RATE, IN TERMS OF WHAT WE HAVE BEING DOING OVER THE LAST WEEK, IT WOULD TAKE ANOTHER FOUR WEEKS TO GET TO THE 60% LEVEL IF WE MAINTAIN THE LAST WEEK'S VACCINATION RATE.

AGAIN AT LAST WEEK'S VACCINATION RATE, IT WOULD TAKE US 12 WEEKS TO GET TO THE 70% VACCINATION LEVEL.

IT IS DOABLE, BUT AGAIN, IT IS A VERY AGGRESSIVE TARGET BECAUSE IT DOES REQUIRE, BECAUSE THERE'S 255,000 CHILDREN BETWEEN 0 AND 11 YEARS OLD IN THE STATE OF HAWAI'I THAT ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR THE VACCINE NOW.

WE NEED OVER 80% OF THE POPULATION 12 AND OLDER TO BE FULLY VACCINATED IN ORDER TO HIT THESE THRESHOLDS.

THAT IS AN AGGRESSIVE TARGET.

>>Yunji: DO YOU THINK IT'S UNREALISTIC?

>> IT'S POSSIBLE.

THE QUESTION IS, WHEN WILL WE GET THERE?

HAWAI'I HAS BEEN INCREDIBLY WELL AS A STATE.

GOING BACK TO MARCH 7 LAST YEAR, WHICH IS WHEN STATISTICS STARTED BEING COLLECTED THROUGH THE NATION AND THROUGH THE END OF LAST WEEK, HAWAI'I HAS THE LOWEST INFECTION RATE IN THE NATION AND LOWEST DEATH RATE IN THE NATION FOR THE ENTIRE MEASUREMENT PERIOD.

THAT'S SOMETHING WE SHOULD BE INCREDIBLY PROUD OF.

WE'RE JUST OVER 500 DEATHS.

IF WE HAD THE DEATH RATE OF THE HIGHEST DEATHS IN THE NATION, WE WOULD HAVE OVER 3500 DEATHS IN THE STATE OF HAWAI'I.

THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE DEATH RATE WE HAVE, WHILE TRAGIC, AND DEATH RATE WE WOULD HAVE IF WE HAD THE HIGHEST RATE IN THE NATION.

WE'VE DONE INCREDIBLY WELL.

WHEN I WAS WALKING IN DOWNTOWN HONOLULU TODAY AND MAINLY LOCALS, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT WAIKIKI OR ALA MOANA, BUT DOWNTOWN HONOLULU, THERE WERE MORE PEOPLE WEARING MASKS THAN NOT WEARING MASKS STILL IN THE STATE OF HAWAI'I EVEN THOUGH THAT'S NO LONGER A MANDATE.

AGAIN, OUR STATE HAS DONE INCREDIBLY WELL.

IT IS POSSIBLE THAT IT IS ALSO CHANGING BECAUSE TO GET TO OVER 80% OF THOSE 12 AND OLDER VACCINATED, WHEN YOU KNOW THERE'S A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE THAT EITHER CAN'T GET THE VACCINE OR RELIGIOUS OR MEDICAL REASONS OR WON'T GET IT AND OTHERS DON'T WANT TO GET IT.

IT'S A POSSIBLE TARGET, BUT IT'S ALSO A VERY AGGRESSIVE TARGET.

>>Yunji: I WONDER FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH'S STANDPOINT, WHO'S NOT GETTING THE VACCINE?

WHERE WE'RE SEEING THE POCKET OF VACCINE HESITANCY?

>> I'M GOING TO START WITH WHAT CAN WE DO?

AND SO WE'RE DOING COMMUNITY OUTREACH AND PUBLIC EDUCATION.

IN TERMS OF WHERE THEY'RE NOT GETTING IT, IT'S A MATTER OF ACCESS.

AND ACCESS TAKE MANY FORMS.

MAYBE ACCESS TO CORRECT INFORMATION.

ACCESS TO MAYBE AN ISSUE OF TRANSPORTATION, GEOGRAPHY, WORK.

DOES THE WORKPLACE ALLOW THEM TO TAKE TIME OFF HOURLY?

DO THEY HAVE CHILDCARE?

WE'RE LEARNING WORKING WITH COMMUNITY PARTNERS AND WITH THE HEALTHCARE ASSOCIATION IN TERMS OF JUST WORKING TOGETHER TO FIND OUT WHAT THOSE ISSUES ARE OF ACCESS SO THAT WE CAN BE THERE, WHICH MEANS THINGS LIKE THIS WEEKEND, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF BEING AT WET 'N' WILD, BEING AT FAITH COMMUNITIES AND CHURCHES.

HAVING POP-UPS.

YOU SAW SOME VACCINATIONS HAPPENING AT SHOPPING MALLS.

IT IS ALSO A MATTER OF UNDERSTANDING WHY PEOPLE HAVEN'T BEEN VACCINATED, AND A LOT OF IT HAS TO DO WITH ACCESS.

SOMETIMES IN TERMS OF INFORMATION, SOME PEOPLE THOUGHT IF THEY DIDN'T HAVE INSURANCE, THEY COULDN'T HAVE VACCINATIONS.

AND LANGUAGE.

JESSICA PROBABLY HAS A LOT OF THAT INFORMATION FROM THE COMMUNITY.

AND WE ARE ALSO WORKING WITH COMMUNITY PARTNERS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THOSE NEEDS ARE.

>>Yunji: JESSICA -- >> CAN I ASK A QUICK QUESTION?

DO YOU HAVE ACCESS TO PRISON?

>> WE DO.

WE HAVE TRAINED THE PUBLIC SAFETY IN TERMS OF TESTING AND HELP THEM WITH THE VACCINATION.

>>Yunji: JESSICA, I DO WANT TO GET TO YOU.

YOUR TEAM HAS BEEN STUDYING THE ISSUE OF VACCINE HESITANCY.

WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED?

>> WE'VE BEEN LOOKING AT PULSE STATE DATA.

THIS IS DATA THAT'S COLLECTED BY THE U.S. CENSUS BUREAU.

THEY HAVE BEEN DOING BIWEEKLY.

SURVEY.

IF THEY HAVE BEEN VACCINATED.

IF NOT, IF THEY'LL LIKELY GET IT.

IF IT'S YES, THEY WILL, AND THE REASONS WHY THEY ARE HESITANT.

THAT'S GIVEN US A REASON WHY PEOPLE ARE HESITANT.

AND THAT CAN BE A STARTING POINT OF MESSAGING AND REASONING AROUND THAT.

WHAT WE'RE SEEING BASICALLY, THERE IS A -- AS LOLA MENTIONED, A SUBSET OF PEOPLE WANT TO GET THE VACCINE.

EVEN KNOWING THEY DON'T HAVE IT.

THAT'S LIKELY ACCESS ISSUES.

SURVEY DOES A BREAKDOWN OF ACCESS.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOMEBODY WHO SAYS THEY WANT TO DO THIS BUT HAVEN'T, YOU REALLY HAVE TO BE LOOKING FOR ACCESS.

THAT'S AN IMPORTANT ISSUE.

>>Yunji: ASIDE FROM ACCESS, WHAT ARE SOME OTHER REASONS PEOPLE HAVE PLAYED OUT FOR NOT WANTING TO DO THIS?

>> FOR FOLKS WHO DON'T SAY I WANT TO DO THIS BUT ARE EXPRESSING HESITANCY, THERE'S TWO CATEGORIES.

BASED ON THE MOST RECENT DATA WHICH GOES TO MAY 24, THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF A LAG IN TERMS OF RECORDING.

SAFETY CONTINUES TO BE A MAJOR CONSIDERATION FOR PEOPLE.

FOLKS WHO SAY, I'M PROBABLY GET IT, BUT I'M NOT SURE.

CONCERNS ABOUT SAFETY IS THEIR NUMBER ONE REASON FOR NOT DOING IT.

WHEN YOU START TO MOVE TO PEOPLE WHO EXPRESS STRONGER HESITANCY.

THEY SAY, I PROBABLY WON'T GET VACCINATED.

THOSE FOLKS START TO BELIEVE THEY DON'T NEED THE VACCINE.

IT'S NOT JUST A QUESTION OF I'M GOING TO WAIT AND SEE IF IT'S SAFE, BUT RATHER THAN I DON'T THINK THIS IS SOMETHING I NEED.

PEOPLE ARE SAYING THEY DON'T THINK THEY'RE A MEMBER OF A HIGH RISK GROUP.

THIS GROUP TENDS TO SKEW YOUNGER.

AND PEOPLE IN THAT GROUP SAY THEY DON'T THINK COVID IS NOT A SERIOUS ILLNESS.

ON THE VERY END OF THE MOST EXTREME PART OF THE HESITANCY SCALE, FOLKS ARE SAYING THEY'RE DEFINITELY NOT GOING TO GET VACCINATED.

WITHIN THOSE REASONS TEND TO BE THINGS LIKE THEY DON'T TRUST VACCINES.

THEY DON'T TRUST THE GOVERNMENT IN ADDITION TO THINKING THEY NEED IT.

>> GIVEN ALL OF THOSE GROUPS, WILL THERE BE ENOUGH PEOPLE THAT YOU CAN CAPTURE AND CONVINCE TO GET US TO THE THRESHOLDS THAT THE GOVERNOR HAS LAID OUT?

>> IN TERMS OF WHAT HILTON HAD SAID, WE ARE SEEING A REALLY RAPID UPTAKE WITH THE 12 TO 17 YEAR OLDS.

THAT'S LOOKED REALLY GOOD.

IN FACT, THE 12 TO 17-YEAR-OLDS MAY CATCH UP TO YOUNGER ADULTS.

YOUNGER ADULTS TEND TO BE WEIGHING.

ECONOMICS DRIVE THEIR DECISION.

IN TERMS OF WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW WITH THE BUSINESS SECTOR AND HEALTHCARE SECTOR, LOOKING AT THE CHALLENGE WITH ALL THE EXTERNAL MOTIVATORS, THAT MAY HELP THE YOUNGER AGE GROUP.

THEY ALSO WANT TO GATHER.

WHAT ARE THEY MISSING OUT ON?

THEY'RE MOTIVATED BY ECONOMICALLY WE'RE HAVING A HARD TIME, AND SO IT WOULD BE THE EXTERNAL INCENTIVES, I THINK, MAY HELP THEM.

I THINK THE PRIVATE SECTOR IS DOING A FANTASTIC JOB ADDRESSING THOSE ISSUES THAT THE YOUNGER ADULTS ARE SAYING ARE IMPORTANT TO THEM.

>> THERE'S ONE OTHER FACTOR THAT IS IMPACTING SOME INDIVIDUALS, AND THAT'S THE FACT THAT THE VACCINES THAT ARE AVAILABLE, EMERGENCY USE AUTHORIZATION BY THE FDA.

SOME INDIVIDUALS SAY WE'RE GOING TO WAIT UNTIL THERE'S TOTAL -- THAT WILL BE A MOTIVATING FACTOR.

THE QUESTION IS, CAN WE GET TO THOSE TARGETS?

WE'LL GET TO 60% WITHIN RELATIVELY SOON.

70% TARGET IS GOING TO BE MORE OF A CHALLENGE, AND IT MAY REQUIRE ADDITIONAL INCENTIVES OR MOTIVATING FACTORS SUCH AS THE FULL AUTHORIZATION OR SCHOOLS, FOR EXAMPLE, REQUIRING VACCINATIONS OR OTHER EMPLOYER GROUPS REQUIRING VACCINATION.

I WOULD ABSOLUTELY ECHO WHAT LOLA SAID ABOUT YOUNG PEOPLE.

12 TO 17-YEAR-OLD AGE GROUP, AND ESPECIALLY THE YOUNGER AGES, 12 OF 15 HAD ACCESS TO THE VACCINE FOR A RELATIVELY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.

THERE'S 40% IN THAT AGE GROUP THAT RECEIVED ONE OR MORE DOSES.

THAT'S ENCOURAGING.

MOBILE VANS AT HAWAI'I PACIFIC HEALTH, QUEENS.

WE APPRECIATE THE COLLABORATION WITH DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH.

THAT IS REALLY HELPING.

WHAT JESSICA WAS TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF PROVIDING ACCESS, WE ARE FINDING THAT WE HAVE TO -- AND A LOT OF THE EARLY DOCTORS MADE THE DECISION TO HAVE DRIVEN TO THE HOSPITALS TO THE NEIGHBOR ISLAND AND DRIVEN TO THE BLAISDELL.

WE'VE GOT TO TAKE THE VACCINE TO THEM.

IT'S A CONVENIENCE FACTOR.

A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE BUSY.

THEY'VE GOT ALL SORTS OF THINGS GOING ON.

WE HAVE TO TAKE THE VACCINE TO THEM, AND IT IS HAVING AN IMPACT.

>>Yunji: RON, LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT HILTON REFERENCED.

THIS IDEA OF POSSIBLY HAVING MORE MANDATES.

NOT JUST INCENTIVES.

WHERE DO WE SEE THAT GOING LEGALLY?

THE UNIVERSITY OF HAWAI'I HAS SAID THAT ANYBODY ON CAMPUS IS GOING TO HAVE TO DO THAT ONCE THE FDA GIVES FULL AUTHORIZATION.

DO YOU SEE OTHER EMPLOYERS ADOPTING THAT, AND CAN THEY DO THAT?

>> I'VE SEEN IN THE NEWSPAPER LOCAL BUSINESSES MANDATED IT.

A MANDATED VACCINE IS PERFECTLY LEGAL.

IT'S BEEN OKAY BY THE STATE AND COURT FOR 120 YEARS, AND SCHOOL KIDS HAVE VACCINES.

YOU CAN'T GO TO SCHOOL UNLESS YOU HAVE A VACCINE.

IT'S FOR THE GREATER GOOD.

THAT TRUMPS THE INDIVIDUAL RIGHT TO BE FREE FROM THE VACCINATION.

SO AS HILTON MENTIONED, THERE ARE A COUPLE LEGAL LIMITS TO THAT CONSTITUTIONAL CASE THAT COMES GENERALLY FROM STATUTE AND CIVIL RIGHTS LAW OF 64.

RELIGION AND DISABILITY CAN'T PROVIDE A BASIS FOR NOT GETTING THE VACCINATION.

AS YOU GET INTO THE EVOLUTION OF THAT LAW, EOC, AS HAS BEEN MENTIONED, SAYS THERE'S NO REASON WHY YOU CAN'T BAN IT.

IF YOU HAVE A DISABILITY OR MEDICAL CONDITION OR RELIGIOUS CONVICTION, OBLIGATION OF EMPLOYER IS REASONABLY ACCOMMODATE.

IF THE EMPLOYER CANNOT WITHOUT UNDUE HARDSHIP, THE EMPLOYER WINS SO REASONABLE ACCOMMODATION WOULD BE REMOTE WORK, ET CETERA.

AS LONG AS THEY'RE NOT COERCING.

THERE'S NO FEDERAL MANDATE.

IT'S LEFT TO THE STATES ARE ALLOWED TO LOOK OUT FOR THE PUBLIC WELFARE.

SOME OF THE STATES HAVE BEEN -- A FEW OF THE STATES HAVE BEEN BANNING MANDATORY VACCINATION FOR EMPLOYERS AND EMPLOYEES.

I THINK IT'S LIKELY UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

ONE THING FOR THE STATE TO LOOK FOR THE COMMON GOOD.

ANOTHER THING TO TEND TO UNDERMINE IT.

SO ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS I DIDN'T HEAR JESSICA, IT'S MY RIGHT.

I DON'T HAVE TO GET A VACCINE IF I DON'T WANT TO.

WITHOUT MY CONSENT.

BUT THEY DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO A JOB.

THEY CAN EITHER GET A VACCINATION OR MORE JOB.

THE REASON THAT A MANDATORY VACCINE MIGHT BE A GOOD THING IN SOME CASES FOR SOME EMPLOYEES, HOSPITALS, NURSING HOMES, PRISONS, PLACES LIKE THAT, THERE WAS AN ARTICLE IN THE LOCAL HAWAI'I NEWSPAPER A COUPLE DAYS AGO.

LET ME QUOTE IT.

SAID 38 INFECTIONS WERE LINKED TO AN OAHU FAST FOOD RESTAURANT.

11 UNVACCINATED EMPLOYEES LEADING TO 27 HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS.

FOUR WORKED AT THREE OTHER FAST FOOD RESTAURANTS.

SEVEN MORE CASES WERE CONFIRMED.

THAT'S THE THING YOU TRIED TO AVOID.

IF YOU CAN CUT IT OFF BY MANDATING VACCINES AT THE EMPLOYMENT LEVEL, WHY NOT?

FOR THE COMMON GOOD.

>>Yunji: HILTON, WHAT ARE YOU SEEING?

ARE THERE HOSPITALS AND HEALTHCARE ASSOCIATIONS THAT ARE STARTING TO ADOPT ANY MANDATORY VACCINES FOR EMPLOYEES?

>> THIS IS AN ISSUE WE HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING FOR A NUMBER OF MONTHS.

IN HAWAI'I THE ASSOCIATION HAS NOT TAKEN A POSITION.

WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF SURVEYING ALL OUR HOSPITALS TO GET A SENSE OF WHERE THEY'RE AT.

WE'RE VERY FORTUNATE THAT WE HAVE VERY GOOD VACCINATION RATES AT STAFF AT HOSPITALS AND HIGHER AT NURSING HOMES.

WE HAVE WELL OVER 80% OF THE STAFF IN OUR NURSING HOMES VACCINATED.

AND OVER 90% OF THE RESIDENTS.

WE'RE DOING VERY WELL COMPARED TO NATIONAL AVERAGES AND BENCHMARKS.

IN REGARD TO THE MANDATE, ONE OF THE CHALLENGES THAT OUR MEMBERS ARE FACING IS THAT, AND I AGREE WITH WHAT RON SAID IN TERMS OF WHAT THE LAW SAYS IN REGARD TO FLU VACCINES, SMALLPOX, TETANUS, THINGS LIKE THAT.

VACCINES THAT CAN BE APPROVED.

IN THE U.S. HISTORY, THERE'S ONE OTHER VACCINE APART FROM COVID, EMERGENCY USE AUTHORIZATION AND THAT IS FOR EBOLA.

EBOLA IS NOT WIDESPREAD AND DID NOT BECOME A PANDEMIC.

EMPLOYER GROUPS WERE NOT MANDATING THE EBOLA VACCINE.

VACCINES THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED, ONLY OTHER ONE AND NOW WE HAVE PFIZER, MODERNA AND JOHNSON & JOHNSON.

THAT HAS NEVER BEEN TESTED IN A COURT AS TO WHETHER A MANDATE CAN BE THIS PLACE FOR A VACCINE AUTHORIZED UNDER EMERGENCY USE AUTHORIZATION.

THE PUBLIC GOOD, ESPECIALLY IN HOSPITALS, NURSING HOMES, PRISONS AND POTENTIALLY RESTAURANTS AND HOTELS WHERE YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF INTERACTION BETWEEN STAFF AND PUBLIC.

SO WE AS AN ASSOCIATION ARE VERY SUPPORTIVE OF VACCINES.

WE HAVE BEEN WORKING ACROSS THE STATE FOR MONTHS IN CLOSE COLLABORATION WITH DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND MANY OTHER ORGANIZATIONS TO VACCINATE AS MANY PEOPLE IN HAWAI'I AS POSSIBLE.

MANY OF OUR HOSPITALS IN THE STATE ALREADY HAVE VACCINE MANDATES FOR THINGS LIKE FLU VACCINES.

AND YOU HAVE TO BE TESTED FOR TUBERCULOSIS.

THAT HAS BEEN LITIGATED, AS RON MENTIONED.

I BELIEVE THAT ONCE THERE IS FULL AUTHORIZATION FOR THESE VACCINES, WHICH WE EXPECT THIS FALL, MANY ORGANIZATIONS, HEALTHCARE AND OTHER, WILL GO AHEAD WITH MANDATES.

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THEY CAN RENNED ABOUT.

EMERGENCY USE AUTHORIZATION AND THE FACT THAT IT'S NOT BEEN LITIGATED IN U.S. COURTS.

>>Yunji: JESSICA, YOUR THOUGHTS ON HOW THIS WOULD GET ROLLED OUT.

CONCERN IS?

YOU MANDATE THIS, THERE COULD BE PEOPLE THAT DIG IN THEIR HEELS MORE.

AND WE HEARD POLITICIANS, LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR AND GOVERNOR SAY, WE'RE NOT FORCING ANYONE TO DO THIS.

THEY'VE BEEN CAREFUL IN SAYING THIS IS A VOLUNTARY DECISION.

IF THAT STARTS TO CHANGE AND IT BECOME MANDATORY, HOW DO YOU THINK THAT WOULD BE RECEIVED?

PARTICULARLY IN THE POPULATIONS YOU'VE BEEN INTERVIEWING?

>> I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A MIXED RESPONSE.

ALREADY YOU CAN SEE THE DISCUSSIONS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE UP IN ARMS ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF THEIR BEING MANDATES BEFORE THEY ROLL OUT AT THAT.

WE DID A REPORT IN MARCH AND MENTIONED THE POSSIBILITY OF MANDATES THAT COULD BE TAKEN HYPOTHETICALLY AT THAT POINT.

AND THAT WAS A POINT THAT WE GOT A STRONG RESPONSE BACK FROM INDIVIDUALS CONTACTING US WHO WERE NOT HAPPY WITH THAT IDEA.

I THINK YOU ARE GOING TO GET PUSH BACK, AT THE SAME TIME I DO THINK THE FRAMING OF IT MATTERS, AND I THINK THE COMMUNICATING ABOUT IT MATTERS.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO ROLL OUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT, IT HAS TO BE COMMUNICATED WELL AHEAD OF TIME SO PEOPLE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE PLANS, TO TAKE STEPS TO GET THE VACCINE DESPITE WHAT CHALLENGES THEY MAY HAVE LIKE ARRANGING CHILDCARE AND GETTING TO THE SITE AND HAVING THE OPPORTUNITY FOR SOMEONE TO COME TO THEM.

SO I THINK IF YOU GET TO THE POINT OF THAT ROLLOUT COMMUNICATION, TIME LINE IS GOING TO BE CRITICAL.

GIVING PEOPLE ENOUGH TIME IS GOING TO BE REALLY IMPORTANT.

AND MAKING CLEAR WHO WOULD APPLY TO, WHO IT DOESN'T.

IS THERE A PROCESS FOR EXEMPTION?

THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.

I DO THINK YOUR POINT THAT YOU RAISED IS IMPORTANT.

THAT WE HAVE HAD A NARRATIVE SO FAR OVERALL THAT IS POSITIONED AS A PERSONAL CHOICE.

SO IF WE SHIFT TOWARDS THERE BEING MORE WIDESPREAD MANDATE, THAT NARRATIVE IS GOING TO HAVE TO CHANGE.

I THINK SOME OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE DISCUSSED ABOUT FRAMING IT AS THIS IS FOR THE PUBLIC GOOD.

IN THE END, IT'S NOT AN INDIVIDUAL THING BECAUSE WE'RE ALL LIVING TOGETHER.

WE'RE INTERACTING WITH EACH OTHER.

THIS CAN'T BE YOU, AS AN INDIVIDUAL, GET TO DO WHATEVER YOU WANT.

WE HAVE LOTS OF THINGS IN SOCIETY.

IN ADDITION TO VACCINES, WE MADE SOCIAL AGREEMENTS.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO DRIVE A CAR, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A DRIVER'S LICENSE.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE INSURANCE.

YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW THE RULES OF THE ROAD, AND THAT'S DONE FOR THE COLLECTIVE GOOD.

YOU THINK THERE ARE WAYS TO FRAME IT THAT COULD ALLAY SOME CONCERNS, BUT IT WILL REQUIRE A SHIFT IN GEAR BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN AN INDIVIDUAL FOCUS APPROACH SO FAR.

>> JESSICA, LET ME ASK YOU A QUICK QUESTION.

ASSUMING THE VACCINE LOSE THEIR EMERGENCY STATUS AND THEY BECOME PERMANENT, HOW WOULD YOU DISTINGUISH BETWEEN A COVID SHOT AND T.B.?

I REMEMBER I COULDN'T WORK AT U.H.

UNLESS I HAVE A T.B.

SHOT.

WHY NOT A COVID SHOT?

WHY NOT A SMALLPOX SHOT?

DOES THAT TAKE AWAY THE ARRANGEMENT?

IT DOESN'T TAKE AWAY -- >> I THINK THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO WOULD -- OTHER THINGS.

THERE ARE SUBSETS OF THE POPULATION THAT ARE GOING TO PUSH BACK EVEN IF IT'S SIMILAR TO OTHER THINGS.

I WOULD AGREE.

ONCE WE'RE IN THAT FULL AUTHORIZATION PHASE, YOU CAN POINT TO ANALOGS THAT ARE READILY AVAILABLE AND THOSE COMPARISONS DO BECOME AVAILABLE.

I WOULD HOPE IT WOULD BE COMPELLING.

I THINK THE MAJOR DIFFERENCE OF PEOPLE CONCERNED ABOUT SAFETY IS A LOT OF THESE OTHER THINGS HAVE HAD DECADES OF TRACK RECORD.

SMALLPOX VACCINES, WE'VE HAD FOR A LONG TIME.

T.B.

FOR A LONG TIME.

MMR, ALL THOSE THINGS.

PEOPLE ARE STILL LOOKING AT COVID VACCINES AND THINKING LIKE THEY'RE NEW.

THEY WERE DEVELOPED QUICKLY.

WE DON'T HAVE THE SAME TRACK RECORD.

I CAN SEE THAT BEING A POTENTIAL POINT OF PUSHBACK, BUT I DO THINK THAT ANALOGY IS HELPFUL IF YOU HAVE FULL AUTHORIZATION.

>>Yunji: I WANT TO GET TO VIEWER QUESTIONS.

LOLA IN KAPOLEI, THIS QUESTION OF HERD IMMUNITY.

IS THERE REALLY HERD IMMUNITY?

SEEMS LIKE A CARROT THAT KEEPS CHANGING.

AND DAVE SAYS, IS HERD IMMUNITY REALISTICALLY ACHIEVABLE?

IS THIS IDEA OF HERD IMMUNITY, IS THIS A GOAL WE SHOULD STRIVE FOR?

SOME SAY U.S., AS A WHOLE, MAY NOT GET THERE.

AND THAT SHOULDN'T BE THE FOCUS.

>> I THINK HILTON TOUCHED ON THAT.

IT DEPENDS.

IN TERMS OF 70% GOAL, IT IS TOUGH TARGET, BUT IT IS ACHIEVABLE.

I THINK THE DEFINITION OF POPULATION FACED IMMUNITY HAS NOT BEEN DEFINED FOR COVID-19 AND VACCINES WE HAVE.

IT WOULD BE PREMATURE FOR US TO SAY YES, THERE IS A NUMBER.

THERE ARE VARIANTS.

WE ARE FINDING THE VACCINES THAT ARE AVAILABLE ARE VERY EFFECTIVE.

I THINK IT'S MORE A MATTER EVER WHAT WE DO NOW IN TERMS OF THE CAMPAIGN.

SO WE CAN STAMP AND STOP THE TRANSMISSION OF THE DISEASE.

HILTON MADE A GOOD POINT IN TERMS OF WALKING AROUND DOWNTOWN.

JESSICA TOO.

IN TERMS OF MESSAGE MATTERS AND WHAT WE'VE HISTORICALLY ACCOMPLISHED IN HAWAI'I.

WHEN WE THINK ABOUT SMOKE-FREE RESTAURANTS AND WHAT WE HAVE, HAWAI'I IS A LEADER IN THAT.

WE DIDN'T GO AROUND SAYING, WE'RE TAKING AWAY YOUR RIGHTS.

IT'S HOW WE FRAMED IT.

AS WE'RE PROTECTING THE HEALTH OF OUR EMPLOYEES.

I REMEMBER WHEN YOU COULD GO INTO THE ELEVATOR AND SOMEBODY WOULD BE SMOKING, AND NO ONE TALKED ABOUT MY RIGHTS, BREATHING CLEAN AIR.

WE STARTED TO TALK ABOUT RIGHTS OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO CHOICE.

THEY'RE GOING TO WORK IN THE FRONTLINE AND BE EXPOSED TO THE CIGARETTE SMOKE.

HAWAI'I HAS A CULTURE WHERE WHEN WE'VE TESTED MESSAGES, PEOPLE ARE SELF-SACRIFICING.

AND PEOPLE WILL DO SOMETHING FOR THE SAKE OF SOMEONE THEY LOVE AND CARE FOR.

IT'S A MATTER OF HOW WE MESSAGE THAT, AND HOW WE ARRIVE AT INCREASING THE VACCINATION RATES.

AGGRESSIVE VACCINATION CAMPAIGN IS WHAT WE'RE WORKING ON WITH COMMUNITY ORGANIZATIONS LIKE WE'RE OCEANIA, FILCOM.

IT TAKES ALL OF US FROM NONPROFIT TO BUSINESS SECTOR.

PUSHING AS HARD AS WE CAN.

>>Yunji: I'M SORRY, I WANT TO JUMP ON THAT, AND I THINK THIS WILL GIVE YOU ANY ENTRY.

MARCUS IN MAKIKI SAYS, IF WE DON'T REACH 70%, WILL WE EVER GO BACK TO NORMAL?

WHAT IF WE CAN'T GET THERE?

>> IN TERMS OF HERD IMMUNITY, WE ALREADY HAVE A LEVEL OF HERD IMMUNITY IN HAWAI'I AND ACROSS THE NATION.

NOTHING MAGICAL ABOUT 60%, 70%, 80%.

THEY'RE ESTIMATES AS TO WHAT, WHEN YOU BREAK THAT CHAIN OF TRANSMISSION.

WE HAVE WELL OVER 50% OF OUR POPULATION VACCINATED.

CLOSE TO 60% MEANS WE HAVE A REASONABLE LEVEL OF HERD IMMUNITY IN THE STATE.

GENERAL CONSENSUS WE NEED TO GET TO ABOUT 70% TO TRULY BREAK -- BE SAFER THAN WHAT WE ARE.

THAT'S A GOOD, ACCEPTABLE LEVEL OF HERD IMMUNITY.

BECAUSE OF THE VARIANTS, HOWEVER, SOME PEOPLE ARE SUGGESTING WE SHOULD HAVE 80 TO 85% VACCINATION RATES.

THAT ADDS A LEVEL OF COMPLEXITY.

WE KNOW BASED ON NUMBER OF HOSPITALIZATIONS AND INFECTIONS, TODAY WE HAD 33 COVID PATIENTS IN HOSPITALS ACROSS THE STATE.

AT OUR PEAK WE HAD 300 IN AUGUST OF SEPTEMBER LAST YEAR.

WE HAVE DONE INCREDIBLY WELL IN TERMS OF BRINGING THAT DOWN.

WHEN WE LOOK AT THE IMPACT OF VACCINATIONS, NURSING HOMES, FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAVE OVER 80 OR 90% OF OUR RESIDENTS AND STAFF VACCINATED IN NURSING HOMES.

THAT GOT PASSED HERD IMMUNITY LEVEL.

WE'RE HAVE SMALL -- WE MIGHT HAVE A STAFF MEMBER UNVACCINATED.

GETS TESTED AND IT GOES OUT AND GOES IN QUARANTINE FOR A COUPLE WEEKS.

WE KNOW THAT THE HERD IMMUNITY CONCEPT WILL WORK.

WE ALREADY HAVE A LEVEL OF IT.

THE QUESTION IS HOW SAFE ARE WE?

GENERAL CONSENSUS, WE'RE NOT WHERE WE NEED TO BE.

IF WE CAN GET TO THAT 70% LEFT, THAT IS A THRESHOLD THAT IS WIDELY ACCEPTED, BREAKING THAT CHAIN OF TRANSMISSION AND PROTECTING OUR POPULATION.

>>Yunji: WHAT ABOUT PRIVATE BUSINESS WHO MIGHT REQUIRE VERIFICATION TO ENTER?

STARTING GAMES AT U.H.

EITHER DOING RAPID TESTING OR VACCINE VERIFICATION FOR THE FANS.

WHAT GROUNDS TO BUSINESSES AND PRIVATE ENTITIES HAVE TO MANDATE THINGS LIKE MASK WEARING.

A BUSINESS STILL WANTS YOU TO WEAR A MASK INDOORS.

>> CIVIL RIGHTS ACT OF 64, 75, THEY SAY THERE IS SOME DIFFICULT ABOUT THE MEDICAL HISTORY OF A PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL.

THEY SAY FOR COVID YOU MAY ASK THEM AND GET THE INFORMATION.

SO IF YOU GET THAT INFORMATION, YOU HAVE TO STORE IT SEPARATELY.

LAW SAYS YOU CAN ASK THAT QUESTION.

>>Yunji: AND YOU CAN DENY ENTRY?

SAY I HAVE A CONCERT HALL, ONLY PEOPLE WITH VACCINE CAN WATCH.

CAN YOU DO THAT?

>> I APPROACH IT FROM THE EMPLOYMENT RELATIONSHIP.

WHEN YOU GET INTO PUBLIC, IT'S A DIFFERENT QUESTION.

THE EXAMPLE OF RESTAURANT, A COUPLE PEOPLE HAVEN'T BEEN VACCINATED.

THAT SPEAKS VOLUMES TO ME.

I'M IN FAVOR OF THAT RESTRICTION.

I DON'T WANT TO SIT NEXT TO SOMEBODY THAT'S NOT VACCINATED.

ALTHOUGH I FEEL VACCINATED, WHAT IF I BRING MY CHILD OR GRANDMA OR YOU GET ANOTHER BIG SET OF INFECTIONS.

SO IT'S A LITTLE TRICKIER QUESTION WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TELLING THE PUBLIC YOU CAN TELL THEM WHAT TO DO IN HOSPITALS.

THOSE PEOPLE, IN MY MIND, ARE FAIRLY EASY.

WHEN YOU GET INTO PUBLIC VENUES AND RESTAURANTS MIGHT BE EASIER BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT EMPLOYEES.

MAYBE YOU CAN REQUIRE USHERS.

AND I DON'T KNOW ABOUT CUSTOMERS COMING IN.

THAT'S A LITTLE MORE IFFY.

SURE.

I'M SURE THE LAWYERS WILL LINE UP ON THAT TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE ARGUMENT IS.

>>Yunji: JESSICA, WHAT CAN MOVE THE NEEDLE?

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE GOVERNOR'S INCENTIVE PROGRAM?

ZIPPY'S FOR A YEAR.

DO THOSE THINGS MOTIVATE PEOPLE OR WOULD THINGS LIKE VACCINATION VERIFICATION, IS THAT A STRONGER INCENTIVE TO CONVINCE PEOPLE TO GET THE SHOT?

>> I THINK HONESTLY IF YOU WANT PEOPLE TO GET VACCINATED, THE MANDATES FROM EMPLOYERS ARE GOING TO BE MORE EFFECTIVE.

I HONESTLY HAVE SOME QUESTIONS OR NOT ENTIRELY SURE THAT THE INCENTIVE PROGRAM THAT'S BEEN PUT FORTH IS REALLY GOING TO BE THAT EFFECTIVE AT MOVING THE NEEDLE.

I WOULD LOVE TO BE WRONG ABOUT THAT BECAUSE I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THAT NEEDLE MOVE, BUT I THINK YOU HAVE A COUPLE OF ISSUES WITH THINGS LIKE THOSE TYPES OF INCENTIVES.

FIRST IS THEY REALLY DON'T ADDRESS THE CONCERNS THAT PEOPLE HAVE.

SOURCES OF HESITANCY.

SAYING YOU CAN WIN ZIPPY'S FOR A YEAR MIGHT BE ENOUGH TO NUDGE SOMEBODY WHO IS ALREADY WANTING TO DO IT BUT JUST HASN'T GOTTEN AROUND TO IT TO GET AROUND TO IT.

BUT FOR SOMETHING WHO'S UNSURE OR WHO'S MORE NEGATIVELY INCLINED, YOU KNOW, THE INCENTIVE OF A PRIZE IS PROBABLY NOT GOING TO GET THEM TO GO AND DO SOMETHING THEY'RE NOT INCLINED TO DO.

PERHAPS MORE IMPORTANTLY, I ALSO DO HAVE CONCERNS THAT IT SENDS KIND OF A TROUBLING IMPLICIT MESSAGE BECAUSE OFTENTIMES WHEN WE SAY, HERE, WE'RE GOING TO DANGLE THIS FOR YOU TO DO IT.

IT'S BECAUSE WE RECOGNIZE THAT PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO DO.

IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT IS GOOD IN AND OF ITSELF, PEOPLE WOULD DO IT WITHOUT YOU HAVING TO OFFER SOMETHING TO GET THEM TO DO IT.

AND SO I DO WORRY A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE THIS BACKFIRING AMONG COMMUNITIES WHO ARE SOMEWHAT HESITANT.

IF THE GOVERNMENT HAS TO PUT FORTH ALL THESE INCENTIVES TO GET US TO DO IT, IT MUST BE SOMETHING PROBLEMATIC.

I'M 100% POSITIVE THAT'S NOBODY'S INTENTION, BUT I COULD SEE SOMEBODY WHO IS ALREADY IN THAT POSITION OF FEELING HESITANT AND HAVING CONCERNS SORT OF LOOKING AT THIS AND HAVING AN INCENTIVE PROGRAM TO AMPLIFY THAT.

I REALLY DO THINK HAVING THINGS LIKE REQUIREMENTS WHERE IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING THAT YOU WANT TO DO, WHETHER THAT'S ATTEND SCHOOL IN PERSON OR HAVE A CERTAIN JOB THAT HAS CERTAIN BENEFITS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, HAVING THOSE ATTACHED TO VACCINATION REQUIREMENT IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE MORE EFFECTIVE TO GET MORE PEOPLE VACCINATED.

>> SO I THOUGHT IT WAS INNOVATIVE, THESE INCENTIVES.

MY IMPRESSION IS HAWAI'I IS SORT OF A LAS VEGAS TYPE OF STATE.

LET'S GAMBLE ON THIS.

SO IT WILL BRING PEOPLE OFF THEIR CHAIRS.

I THOUGHT IF YOU OR HILTON, I THOUGHT I SAW ON THE NEWS THAT THE INCENTIVE WAS PRODUCING A KICK.

INCREASE IN VACCINATION.

ANY TRUTH TO THAT?

>> WE HAVE -- LET ME GIVE THE CREDIT TO HILTON AND HIS GROUP AND THE PRIVATE SECTOR.

SO THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT FUNDING ANY OF THIS.

IT'S STRICTLY FROM THE PRIVATE SECTOR.

THE GOVERNMENT IS PROVIDING THE VACCINATIONS AND SUPPORTING THE HEALTHCARE ORGANIZATIONS WHO ARE SETTING UP THE VACCINATION SITES.

BUT YEAH, WE HAVE SEEN CERTAINLY AN UPTICK IN INTEREST.

AND PHONES ARE OFF THE HOOK IN TERMS OF PEOPLE WANTING TO KNOW ABOUT #HIGOTVACCINATED.

IT WILL BE A COUPLE MORE WEEKS TO SEE IF WE HAVE THE DATA.

>> I DON'T DISAGREE, JESSICA, WITH YOUR ETHICAL CONCERN.

>> I WOULD LOVE TO BE WRONG ABOUT CONCERNS ABOUT THE INCENTIVES.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THOSE CREATIVE BOOSTS.

FROM PREVIOUS RESEARCH WITHIN THE SOCIAL SCIENCES WHAT WE SEE IS THAT GENERALLY, THEY'RE OFFERING INCENTIVE, RATHER THAN A SWEEPSTAKE OR SOMETHING THAT'S EFFECTIVELY A GAME OF CHANCE.

IF YOU KNOW YOU GO, YOU'LL GET THIS REWARD, THAT CAN BE EFFECTIVE.

USUALLY FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DO SOMETHING.

LIKE PROGRAMS FOR SMOKING SECESSION.

IF YOU WANT TO QUIT AND SOMEONE OFFERS YOU AN INCENTIVE, YOU PARTICIPATE AND YOU GET $100 IF YOU DO THIS PROGRAM OR GO THROUGH THIS AND QUIT FOR A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME.

THOSE ARE SHOWN TO BE EFFECTIVE.

IN THE CASE OF COVID, ABOUT TRYING TO REACH GROUPS OF PEOPLE THAT AREN'T EXCITED ABOUT IT, THEY HAVE CONCERNS, THEN I'M NOT SURE IT'S GOING TO BE AS EFFECTIVE AMONG THOSE GROUPS OF PEOPLE.

IT COULD BE A NUDGE FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DO IT BUT HAVEN'T GOTTEN AROUND TO IT.

>>Yunji: LET'S TALK ABOUT HOW MANY PEOPLE YOU THINK WILL BE MOVED BY THIS, AND HOW MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE IT COULD MAKE.

>> WE BELIEVE THAT IT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

I APPRECIATE LOLA MAKING THE DISTINCTION.

NO STATE OR FEDERAL FUNDS IN THIS INCENTIVE PROGRAM AT ALL.

IT IS DONE ENTIRELY BY THE GOOD WILL OF OUR COMMUNITY AND BUSINESS PARTNERS.

WE'RE INCREDIBLY APPRECIATIVE OF ALL PARTICIPATING.

WHO'S PARTICIPATING?

AIRLINES, RESTAURANTS AND BUSINESSES.

THEY WANT US TO BE DONE WITH THIS PANDEMIC.

THEY WANT PEOPLE TO BE VACCINATED.

THEY WANT OUR COMMUNITY TO BE SAFE.

THEY WANT TO OPEN UP THE RESTAURANT.

THEY WANT PEOPLE TO TRAVEL.

THEY WANT PEOPLE TO GO INTO BUSINESSES AND CLUBS AND BARS AND DO THINGS WE USED TO FREELY PREVIOUSLY.

THERE ARE A LOT OF REASONS AS TO WHY PEOPLE ARE NOT VACCINATED YET.

PEOPLE IN HAWAI'I, AS RON WAS SAYING, DO LIKE PRIZE INCENTIVES.

THEY DON'T CALL VEGAS THE NINTH ISLAND FOR NOTHING.

WE KNOW IT'S NOT GOING TO INFLUENCE EVERYONE, BUT THE FACT IS THERE'S A LOT OF PUBLICITY.

A LOT OF PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THE INCENTIVE CAMPAIGN.

IF THAT CAUSES SOME PEOPLE TO DO RESEARCH, THEY'LL TALK TO THEIR NEIGHBORS OR FRIENDS OR DOCTOR.

I'D LIKE TO GET ONE OF THESE PRIZES.

IF THAT CAUSES JUST A FEW PEOPLE TO GO OUT AND BECOME INFORMED ABOUT THE VACCINE AND MAKING THE DECISION TO DO IT, IT'S WORTHWHILE.

WE DO BELIEVE THERE ARE OTHER BUSINESSES COMING ONLINE, WHICH WE REALLY APPRECIATE.

THEY WANT US TO BE SAFE IN OUR COMMUNITY.

THEY WANT THE BUSINESSES TO -- OUR LIFE TO GET BACK TO NORMAL.

WE ARE EXCITED ABOUT THIS CAMPAIGN.

WE DO BELIEVE IT WILL HAVE AN IMPACT.

THE QUESTION IS HOW MUCH OF AN IMPACT IT'S GOING TO HAVE AND HOW SOON WITH KE GET -- CAN WE GET TO 70%.

>>Yunji: LOLA, THERE ARE SOME QUESTIONS.

JOLIN SAYS CAN YOU CLARIFY IN HERD IMMUNITY.

HOW LONG WILL THE SHOTS PROTECT US?

WILL WE NEED ONE EVERY YEAR?

DO WE KNOW THAT AT THIS POINT?

>> WE DON'T.

WE ARE FINDING THAT WITH PEOPLE WHO WERE AMONGST THE FIRST, THE VACCINES ARE PROVING TO BE EFFICACIOUS.

WE MAY NEED A BOOSTER SHOT BUT WE MAY NOT.

THAT'S WHY THIS INITIAL PUSH IS REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE WE HAVE EFFECTIVE VACCINES.

SO IN TERMS OF GOING BACK TO JESSICA AND HILTON AND RON'S CONVERSATION, TOO, I THINK IF WE WERE TO LOOK AT THE STAGES OF CHANGE.

WE LIKE TO USE SOCIAL SCIENCE THEORIES.

SO BASED ON THE STUDY RESULTS WE GOT ABOUT, I THINK IT WAS 68% OF THE PEOPLE WHO PARTICIPATED IN THE SURVEY SAID THAT THEY WERE VACCINATED.

IF WE LOOK, THERE WERE ABOUT 10% WHO SAID THEY WERE NOT GOING TO GET VACCINATED.

THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN BETWEEN.

THOSE WHO WERE SCHEDULE ALREADY FOR THEIR SECOND DOSE, ALONG WITH THOSE STILL CONTEMPLATING BUT THEY'RE NOT SAYING NO.

IN TERMS OF INCENTIVE PROGRAM, AND THAT ON-THE-SPOT CONVERSATION AND THE DECISION PUSH FORWARD, NUDGED BY THE INCENTIVE, I THINK THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY.

VACCINES ARE VERY EFFECTIVE.

>> IF I CAN COMMENT ABOUT THE EFFECTIVENESS.

PRIMARY REASON WE DON'T KNOW HOW LONG IT'S EFFECTIVE, THEY HAVEN'T BEEN OUT THERE FOR OVER A YEAR.

GOOD NEWS IS EVERY MONTH AND PEOPLE IN THE ORIGINALLY TRIALS ARE BEING TESTED EVERY WEEK AND EVERY MONTH.

WHAT WE'VE FINDING IS AS LOLA MENTIONED, EFFECTIVENESS OR EFFICACY RATES ARE HIGH.

THERE ARE CONCERNS.

GOOD NEWS IS THESE VACCINES ARE BEING TESTED AGAINST THE VARIANTS AND HAVE GENERALLY PERFORMED VERY WELL AGAINST THE NONVARIANTS THAT ARE OUT THERE.

DOESN'T MEAN THEY'RE EFFECTIVE AGAINST EVERY VARIANT BUT EFFECTIVE AGAINST A NUMBER OF DOMINANT VARIANTS.

AND THIS IS REALLY GOOD NEWS, THAT THERE ARE AS EFFECTIVE FOR AS LONG AS THEY ARE, AND THEY'RE AS EFFECTIVE AS MANY OF THE VARIANTS AS THEY ARE.

IT IS POSSIBLE THAT BOOSTER SHOTS WILL BE REQUIRED AT SOME POINT IN TIME, BUT AS LOLA MENTIONED, WE DON'T KNOW YET.

WE DON'T KNOW THAT YET.

IT WILL TAKE A WHILE.

WE DO KNOW IT'S EFFECTIVE AT LEAST NINE MONTHS OR SO AND COUNTING.

EVERY MONTH WE LEARN MORE.

>> THE U.S. DID MAKE THE RIGHT DECISION IN A TWO-DOSE PROTOCOL.

THAT'S PROVING TO GIVE US MORE OF THE DEFENSE SYSTEM AND PROTECTION.

U.S. DID MAKE A GOOD DECISION.

>>Yunji: JESSICA, THERE'S A QUESTION FROM DENNIS I WANT TO READ AND FOLLOW UP.

PLEASE DISCUSS AND DISCOUNT THE CRAZY REASONS WHY PEOPLE DON'T WANT THE VACCINE.

RATHER THAN GO THROUGH THAT, WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST?

THERE IS THIS ELEMENT OF PEER PRESSURE OR REACHING OUT TO THOSE IN YOUR COMMUNITY.

PERHAPS ONE OF THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAYS, WHEN PEOPLE TALKING TO THEIR DOCTOR THEY CAN BE CONVINCED OR PERHAPS WHEN THEY TALK TO A FRIEND OR NEIGHBOR?

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE SCIENCE YOURSELF?

WHAT ARE YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS?

>> GREAT QUESTION.

I THINK A COUPLE THINGS.

I THINK FIRST, TRUSTED SOURCES ARE REALLY IMPORTANT IF WE'RE THINKING ABOUT TRYING TO PERSUADE PEOPLE OR MOVE PEOPLE TOWARDS A POSITIONS THAT THEY MAY NOT QUITE BE IN NOW.

AND THAT'S PART OF WHY COMMUNITY OUTREACH EFFORTS ARE SO IMPORTANT OF COORDINATING SAFE LEADERS AND COMMUNITY LEADERS.

FOR ALL PEOPLE, PUBLIC OFFICIALS ARE NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO BE THAT TRUSTED SOURCE.

IT COULD BE A NEIGHBOR OR FAMILY MEMBER OR PASTOR.

SO HAVING PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE COMMUNITY WHO CAN HAVE THOSE ONE-ON-ONE CONVERSATIONS AND WHO ARE SORT OF INVESTED IN THAT PERSON THAT THEY'RE TALKING TO, I THINK, IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

I THINK ANOTHER IMPORTANT ELEMENT IS TO KIND OF TRY TO ENTER THOSE CONVERSATIONS WITH AS OPEN A MIND AS POSSIBLE.

TO LISTEN AND TO NOT SORT OF JUDGE AND PATRONIZE.

THAT IS 100% EASIER SAID THAN DONE.

EVEN THE FRAMING OF A QUESTION LIKE THE ONE YOU READ.

CAN WE FOCUS ON THE SCIENCE?

AND FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE FIRMLY PRO VACCINE, THAT SEEMS STRAIGHTFORWARD.

WHY CAN'T SOMETHING UNDERSTAND IF I THROW THE FACTS AT THEM, SHOULDN'T THAT BE ENOUGH?

FOR WHO ARE SEEING THINGS FROM A DIFFERENT, WHO MAY HAVE ENCOUNTERED AND INTERNALIZED SOME MISINFORMATION OUT THERE OR WE MIGHT BE FEELING DOUBT AND JUST -- THEY'RE JUST NOT SURE, IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO MEET THEM WHERE THEY'RE AT.

LISTEN TO THEIR CONCERNS OPENLY AND TO ADDRESS THOSE CONCERNS IN LANGUAGE THAT IS ACCESSIBLE TO THEM AND MEANINGFUL TO THEM.

IN THE SENSE OF HAVING A CONVERSATION IN SOMEONE'S NATIVE LANGUAGE IF ANOTHER NOT A NATIVE ENGLISH SPEAKER.

HEARING THINGS IN YOUR OWN LANGUAGE IS DIFFERENT.

IT CAN ALSO BE MEETING PEOPLE WHERE THEY ARE IN TERMS OF THE TYPES OF INFORMATION THEY'RE READY TO DEAL WITH AND PROCESS.

IN A LOT OF NEWSPAPER ARTICLES AND ACADEMICS DISCUSSIONS, YOU SEE A LOT OF STATISTICS.

NOT EVERYBODY'S READY TO PROCESS A WHOLE BUNCH OF NUMBERS OR PERCENTAGES AND SO ANALOGIES THAT EXPLAIN HOW DOES THE VACCINE WORK OR WHY IS IT SAFE, INDIVIDUAL STORIES THAT ARE, MY FRIEND GOT THIS, MY NEIGHBOR GOT THIS AND SEE HOW THEY'RE DOING AND THEY'VE NOW BEEN ABLE TO VISIT THEIR GRANDPARENTS AND THOSE SORTS OF THINGS.

THINKING ABOUT WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO THAT PERSON AND TRYING TO USE THAT AS AN AVENUE, BUT THAT STARTS WITH LISTENING AND HAVING THAT CONVERSATION.

MEETING SOMEBODY WHERE THEY'RE AT.

WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO YOU AND WHAT ARE YOU CONCERNS AND ADDRESSING THOSE GENUINELY.

EVEN IF YOU'RE ENTERING THIS CONVERSATION KNOWING STRONGLY THAT YOU ARE PRO VACCINE AND KNOW THE SCIENCE AND ANSWERS, THAT YOU NEED TO MEET PEOPLE WHERE THEY'RE AT AND HELP THEM FROM THERE.

>>Yunji: ON THAT TOPIC -- >> JESSICA FOLLOW UP.

>>Yunji: I WANT TO GET TO JOHN ON FACEBOOK.

HE'S WANTING TO KNOW, DID EVERYONE ON THE PANEL GET THEIR VACCINE?

>> YES.

>>Yunji: I WOULD ASSUME SO.

WE HAVE A FEW MORE MONTHS.

LOLA, ON THIS IDEA OF THE INCENTIVE PROGRAM, HOW WILL WE KNOW THEY'RE WORKING?

THAT THEY'RE HAVING ANY IMPACT?

>> WE ARE COLLECTING THE DATA EVERY DAY AND SO IN TERMS OF WHEN THE DATA GETS ENTERED, WE'LL BE ABLE TO SEE.

THERE IS A LAG TIME FROM DIFFERENT LOCALES.

AS THE DATA IS GATHERED, WE'RE LOOKING AT IT.

>> WE'LL BE ABLE TO TAKE.

>>Yunji: RON, I WANTED TO ASK YOU ONE QUESTION.

PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO OPT OUT OF THE VACCINE IF IT'S MANDATED FOR RELIGIOUS OR VARIOUS REASONS.

HOW DIFFICULT IS THAT TO DO?

CAN I SAY IT MAY BE FOR RELIGIOUS REASON EVEN THOUGH THAT MAY NOT BE THE CASE?

>> NO.

THEY CAN RAISE ALL THESE ISSUES, BUT AS I SAID, THEY MAY PLACE A BURDEN TO EMPLOYER.

IF THEY CAN'T UNDER TITLE 7, FOR EXAMPLE, WITHOUT UNDUE BURDEN, THEY DON'T HAVE TO ACCOMMODATE THEM.

THEY CAN LOOK FOR ALTERNATIVES.

REMOTE WORK IN A DIFFERENT JOB, WHATEVER.

CAN I ASK JESSICA A QUESTION?

>>Yunji: PLEASE.

>> THERE'S AN ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM IN THE LAST QUESTION ABOUT THE CRAZIES.

AND I DON'T WANT TO GIVE YUNJI A LOT OF LETTERS TO THE EDITOR BUT SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE, PARTICULARLY IN THE SOUTH, SOUTHERN STATES AND PARTICULARLY REPUBLICANS, THIS IS ON NATIONAL NEWS STORIES, SEEMS LIKE THEY DON'T REALIZE THAT MR. TRUMP GOT HIS VACCINATIONS.

THEY SEEM TO HOLD OUT POLITICAL REASONS WHY THEY DON'T DO IT.

DOES THAT COME UP AS YOU LOOK AT THINGS?

>> I THINK -- >> I DIDN'T HEAR YOU GIVE THAT AS A REASON.

>> I DIDN'T.

I THINK IT'S UNFORTUNATE, BUT WE CAN RECOGNIZE THIS HAS BECOME POLITICIZED.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT PULLS US AWAY FROM THE SCIENCE.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE WHAT I WOULD CALL SOCIAL IDENTITIES, GROUPS THAT THEY IDENTIFY WITH, AS A REPUBLICAN OR A CONSERVATIVE OR A RELIGIOUS GROUP, BUT SOCIAL IDENTITY CAN AND DO AFFECT HOW PEOPLE COMMUNICATE.

AFFECT PEOPLE'S BELIEFS BECAUSE THEY WANT TO DO THINGS THAT ARE NORMATIVE IN THEIR SOCIAL GROUP.

AND SO I THINK THAT IS AN IMPORTANT FACTOR TO CONSIDER.

IN SOME WAYS, THAT GETS BACK A LITTLE BIT TO TRUSTED SOURCES AS IF YOU CAN GET SOMEBODY WHO IS IN THAT GROUP AND IDENTIFIES WITH THAT GROUP TO BE SOMEBODY WHO CAN HELP, BE CONVINCING, THAT'S IDEAL.

IT CAN'T BE DIFFICULT IF A LOT OF PEOPLE TOGETHER DON'T WANT TO GET VACCINATED.

>>Yunji: JESSICA, I'M GOING TO HAVE TO STOP YOU THERE.

HILTON, WE HAVE ABOUT 20 SECONDS.

WHAT'S YOUR FINAL CLOSING MESSAGE TO FOLKS WHO MAY BE ON THE FENCE AS WE TRY TO GET MORE PEOPLE TO TAKE THE SHOT?

>> GET THE INFORMATION FOR YOURSELF.

THERE'S A LOT INFORMATION.

A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN VACCINATED.

IT'S VERY SAFE.

WE ALL WANT TO GET BACK TO NORMAL SO LET'S DO IT.

>>Yunji: MAHALO TO YOU FOR JOINING US TONIGHT.

AND WE THANK OUR GUESTS -- HILTON RAETHEL, PRESIDENT AND CEO OF THE HEALTHCARE ASSOCIATION OF HAWAI'I.

LOLA HIROKO IRVIN, ADMINISTRATOR OF CHRONIC DISEASE PREVENTION AND HEALTH PROMOTION AT THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH.

UNIVERSITY OF HAWAI'I ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR JESSICA GASIOREK.

AND U-H LAW PROFESSOR RON BROWN.

NEXT WEEK ON INSIGHTS, A NEW PILOT PROGRAM TO INSTALL RED LIGHT CAMERAS AT SEVERAL INTERSECTIONS ON O'AHU IS SET TO LAUNCH THIS YEAR.

OFFICIALS SAY IT'S TO ENHANCE SAFETY, BUT NOT EVERYONE IS ON BOARD WITH IT.

PLEASE JOIN US THEN.

I'M YUNJI DE NIES FOR INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAI'I, ALOHA!