>>> MAJOR FUNDING FOR CHAT BOX WITH DAVID CRUZ IS PROVIDE HAD BY NJM INSURANCE GROUP, SERVING THE INSURANCE NEEDS OF NEW JERSEY RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES FOR MORE THAN 100 YEARS.

THE MEMBERS OF THE NEW JERSEY EDUCATION ASSOCIATION MAKING PUBLIC SCHOOLS GREAT FOR EVERY CHILD.

THE FEW MERCHANTS ASSOCIATION OF NEW JERSEY.

THE NATIONAL OLE HEAT RESEARCH ALLIANCE AND BIOHEAT, THE EVOLUTION OF OIL HEAT.

PROMOTIONAL SUPPORT IS PROMOTED BY INSIDER NJ, A POLITICAL INTELLIGENCE NETWORK DEDICATED TO NEW JERSEY POLITICAL NEWS.

IT IS COMMITTED TO GIVING SERIOUS POLITICAL PLAYERS AN INTERACTIVE FORUM FOR IDEAS, DISCUSSION AND INSIGHT.

ONLINE AT INSIDERNJ.COM.

♪ >>> HEY, EVERYBODY, WELCOME TO "CHAT BOX."

I'M DAVID CRUZ.

GOOD TO BE BACK WITH YOU.

DURING THE BREAK WE HAD A CHANCE TO TALK TO NEWARK'S OWN LUCAS BROTHERS, KENNY AND KEITH, WHO ARE OSCAR NOMINATED FOR THEIR WORK ON THE FILM "JUDAS AND THE BLACK MESSIAH" BASED ON THE LIFE AND DEATH OF CHICAGO BLACK PANTHER PARTY LEADER FRED HAMPTON.

WE'LL HEAR FROM THEM IN A LITTLE BIT.

BUT WE START TODAY WITH FORMER ASSEMBLYMAN AND REPUBLICAN GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE JACK CIATTARELLI.

ASSEMBLYMAN, WELCOME.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

>> DAVID, GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

>> SO I GUESS IT'S FAIR TO CALL YOU THE FRONT-RUNNER, BUT WE SHOULD MENTION THAT THERE ARE THREE OTHER GUYS WHO ARE ALSO ON THE BALLOT.

FORMER COUNTY COMMISSIONER AND MAYOR BRIAN LEVINE, BUSINESSMAN HERSH SING, AND PHIL RIZZO.

SO A LOT TO COVER, ASSEMBLYMAN, AND NOT A LOT OF TIME SO LET'S START HERE.

IT'S BUDGET SEASON IN NEW JERSEY.

I KNOW THAT AS ASSEMBLYMAN THIS WAS ALWAYS YOUR FAVORITE TIME OF THE YEAR.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE BEEN PAYING MUCH ATTENTION TO THE COVERAGE, BUT LAWMAKERS HAVE BEEN GIVING THE GOVERNOR A HARD TIME ABOUT THE $4 BILLION THAT THE STATE BORROWED DURING THE HEIGHT OF THE PANDEMIC LAST YEAR.

NOW THE STATE IS FLUSH WITH CASH AND SOME LAWMAKERS ARE SAYING GOVERNOR MURPHY SHOULDN'T HAVE TAKEN ON THAT DEBT.

LET'S HEAR FROM THE GOVERNOR AND THEN WE'LL COME BACK AND TALK ABOUT IT.

>> I HAVEN'T HEARD SO MUCH MONDAY MORNING QUARTERBACKING SINCE HOWARD COSELL RETIRED.

WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, WE DID WHAT WE THOUGHT WE HAD TO DO AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO JUST THAT EVERY SINGLE DAY WE COME TO WORK.

>> SO THINGS WERE PRETTY DIRE BACK IN NOVEMBER, AND SOME OF THE VERY LAWMAKERS WHO ARE COMPLAINING NOW ABOUT THE BORROWING VOTED TO APPROVE IT THEN.

MY QUESTION TO YOU IS NOT FACTORING THE 2020 HINDSIGHT, WOULD YOU HAVE ASKED FOR THE AUTHORITY TO BORROW THAT MONEY?

AND WHAT WOULD A GOVERNOR CIATTARELLI DO WITH IT NOW?

>> I WOULD NOT HAVE ASKED FOR THE AUTHORITY TO BORROW THAT MONEY, DAVID.

AS YOU KNOW, I SUED THE GOVERNOR AND WENT BEFORE THE SUPREME COURT WITH MY ATTORNEY TO ARGUE THAT CASE ALONG THE LINES OF LANCE VERSUS McGREEVEY.

WE WON THAT CASE IN 2004 WHEN JIM McGREEVEY TRIED TO BALANCE THE BUDGET WITH BORROWED FUNDS.

WE DIDN'T NEED TO DO IT THIS TIME.

AND HERE WE ARE TODAY.

THE BONDS ARE NOT EVEN CULLABLE SO WE'RE STUCK WITH THE INTEREST AND PRINCIPAL FOR THE NEXT 20 YEARS.

>> WHAT WOULD YOU DO WITH THAT $4 BILLION NOW?

SHOULD YOU PAY DOWN SOME OF THE STATE'S EXISTING DEBT?

>> FIRST OF ALL, I WOULD NEVER HAVE BORROWED THE MONEY.

IF I WAS IN IN MURPHY'S SHOES I WOULD SQUIRREL AWAY THAT MONEY TO RETIRE WHATEVER DEBT WE COULD RETIRE EARLY.

NEW JERSEY LEADS THE NATION IN OUTSTANDING STATE DEBT.

SO LET'S SQUIRREL AWAY THE MONEY AND USE IT TO RETIRE DEBT EARLY.

>> ALL RIGHT.

ON COVID, NEW JERSEY IS ONE OF THE FIVE STATES THAT MAKE UP ABOUT 50% OF THE CASES NATIONWIDE.

I KNOW THAT YOU'VE BEEN A C CRITIC, ESPECIALLY OF THE GOVERNOR'S HANDLING OF THE LONG-TERM CASE FACILITIES.

BUT HERE WE ARE.

WHAT DOES A GOVERNOR CIATTARELLI DO NOW?

>> WELL, WE HAVE TO OPEN UP THE ECONOMY, DAVID.

I THINK WE KNOW A LOT MORE TODAY THAN WE DID A YEAR AGO.

WE KNOW HOW TO KEEP THE MOST VULNERABLE SAFER AND WE NEED TO GET THE ECONOMY OPEN AGAIN.

I CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY WE WOULD STILL BE AT 50% INDOOR CAPACITY FOR RESTAURANTS.

I CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY OUR SCHOOLS AREN'T OPEN.

THE GOVERNOR HAS THE FUNDS, INCLUDING MORE THAN A BILLION DOLLARS IN FEDERAL C.A.R.E.S.

ACT RELIEF FUNDS TO HELP SCHOOLS DO WHATEVER IT IS THEY NEED TO DO WITH THEIR VEPT VENTILATION SYSTEMS TO GET OUR KIDS BACK IN SCHOOL.

LET'S GET THE ECONOMY OPEN SAFELY, LET'S GET OUR KIDS BACK TO SCHOOL SAFELY.

THOSE ARE TWO THINGS GOVERNOR CIATTARELLI WOULD DO RIGHT NOW.

>> SPEAKING OF BUDGETS AND THE GOVERNOR, HE SAID THIS WEEK THAT HE WOULD LOOK INTO A WAY TO MAKE SOME KIND OF FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE AVAILABLE TO UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS WHO REALLY GOT HIT HARD BY THE PANDEMIC.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU KNOW THAT A HANDFUL OF UNDOCUMENTED RESIDENTS ARE STAGING A HUNGER STRIKE IN FRONT OF THE STATEHOUSE.

SHOULD THE STATE HELP THE UNDOCUMENTED FINANCIALLY?

>> DAVID, THE LAST THING THAT LEGAL CITIZENS WHO ARE WAITING MONTH UPON MONTH UPON MONTH FOR THEIR UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS WANT TO HEAR IS THAT TAX DOLLARS, WHETHER STATE OR FEDERAL, ARE BEING USED FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

S LET'S TAKE CARE OF THOSE THAT FOLLOW THE RULES FIRST BEFORE WE START LOOKING TO OTHER POPULATIONS.

>> IS THERE ANY WAY THAT THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD HELP AT ALL, OR ARE YOU JUST SAYING SINCE THEY'RE HERE WITHOUT AUTHORIZATION, THAT THEY'RE ON THEIR OWN?

>> DAVID, WE KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE EXPERIENCED FINANCIAL PAIN.

MORE THAN ONE OUT OF THREE SMALL BUSINESSES ON MAIN STREET HAVE CLOSED THEIR DOORS FOREVER, AND THAT WASN'T NECESSARY.

THERE WAS NO RHYME OR REASON FOR A GREAT MANY OF THE EXECUTIVE ORDERS.

SO YES, WE ARE OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS KEEPER.

WE SHOULD TAKE CARE OF THOSE WHO FOLLOW THE RULES FIRST.

>> THERE ARE -- I DON'T WANT TO GET BOGGED DOWN ON THIS, BUT THERE IS TECHNICALLY SOME HELP FROM THE STATE AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT COMING TO THOSE FOLKS, PERHAPS NOT ENOUGH AND PERHAPS NOT AS EFFICIENTLY OR EFFECTIVELY AS POSSIBLE, BUT ARE YOU SAYING THAT THE STATE SHOULD DO NOTHING FOR THESE FOLKS?

>> I'M NOT SAYING WE SHOULD DO NOTHING.

WHAT I'M SAYING IS WE SHOULD TAKE CARE OF THOSE THAT ARE MOST VULNERABLE FIRST.

THESE KIND OF POLICIES FROM THE GOVERNOR AT A TIME WHEN HE HAD ONLY A MILLION DOSES OF THE VACCINE TO HAND OUT, HE CHANGED THE ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA TO INCLUDE SMOKERS OF ANY AGE.

I KNOW A GREAT MANY PEOPLE IN THEIR 70s AND 80s THAT COULDN'T GET A SHOT THAT WERE SUDDENLY COMPETING WITH 24-YEAR-OLD SMOKERS.

I ALWAYS THINK WE SHOULD TRY TO TAKE CARE OF THOSE WHO FOLLOW THE RULES FIRST AND FOREMOST.

>>> LET ME SWITCH TO A COUPLE OF BROADER ISSUES HERE.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE PRESIDENT'S $2 TRILLION INFRASTRUCTURE PLAN?

>> WELL, I LIKE THE IDEA OF AN INFRASTRUCTURE PLAN.

WE'VE GOT AN IMPORTANT INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECT RIGHT HERE IN THE METROPOLITAN AREA THAT'S CRITICALLY IMPORTANT TO THE NEW JERSEY ECONOMY AND THAT'S THE GATEWAY PROJECT.

SO I DO SEE A ROLE FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WHEN IT COMES TO INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS.

>> WE'VE SEEN MOUNTING PRESSURE ON GEORGIA AFTER ITS LEGISLATURE PASSED THESE STRICT NEW VOTING LAWS.

MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL PULLED THE ALL-STAR GAME FROM ATLANTA AND THESE GEORGIA-BASED COMPANIES WHO CRITICIZED THE NEW LAW.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THE GEORGIA LAW?

>> WELL, I WISH MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL, DAVID, HAD MADE THEIR STATEMENT IN A DIFFERENT KIND OF WAY.

I THINK THEY SHOULD HAVE CHALLENGED THEMSELVES TO DO SO.

THAT WOULD HAVE HAD THE ALL-STAR GAME IN ATLANTA WOULD HAVE HAD A $100 MILLION IMPACT ON LOCAL BUSINESSES THERE, INCLUDING A GREAT MANY MINORITY-OWNED BUSINESSES.

SO LISTEN, I WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT ELECTED OFFICIALS UP AND DOWN THE COUNTRY AT EVERY LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT WANT WHAT I WANT, THE GREATEST TURNOUT POSSIBLE, THE GREATEST VOTER PARTICIPATION POSSIBLE, AND EVERYONE -- NO ONE TO BE DISENFRANCHISED.

THAT'S WHY I PUT FORWARD MY OWN PLAN HERE IN NEW JERSEY ON HOW TO DO JUST THAT.

IN FACT I SUPPORTED EARLY VOTING LONG BEFORE THE GOVERNOR AND LEGISLATURE.

THE RECENTLY PASSED BILL THAT THEY PUT IN PLACE.

>> DO YOU THINK THE GEORGIA LAW DOES ALL THOSE THINGS THAT YOU SAY YOU WANT TO SEE?

>> I THINK THE GEORGIA LAW IS TRYING TO RESTORE PEOPLE'S FACE AND CONFIDENCE IN THE ELECTION SYSTEM.

THERE'S SOME REFORMS THEY PUT IN PLACE THAT DON'T MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME.

I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY WOULD MAKE THE WINDOW SHORTER FOR APPLYING FOR YOUR VOTE BY MAIL BALLOT.

AND SINCE GEORGIA HAS ALWAYS BEEN PLAGUED BY LONG LINES, I DON'T KNOW WHY PROVIDING PEOPLE WATER ON A HOT DAY WHO ARE STANDING IN LINE TO VOTE IS SUDDENLY GOING TO BE ILLEGAL.

SO AGAIN, IT'S ALL ABOUT VOTER ELECTION INTEGRITY, BUT AT THE SAME TIME IN SOME RESPECTS I THINK THE VOTERS -- THE REFORMS IN GEORGIA MAY HAVE GONE TOO FAR.

>> ALL RIGHT.

I JUST HAVE TWO MINUTES LEFT, SO SOME QUICK QUESTIONS AND HOPEFULLY QUICK, EVEN ONE-WORD ANSWERS.

ALL RIGHT?

>> SOUNDS GOOD TO ME.

>> SO ARE YOU A CONSERVATIVE OR A MODERATE?

>> I'M A NEW JERSEYAN THAT WANTS TO FIX THIS STATE AND AS AN TWO-TIMES BUSINESS OWNER, I HAVE A PLAN TO DO JUST THAT.

>> YOU KNOW, CONSERVATIVES IN YOUR PARTY ARE GUNNING FOR YOU?

>> I AM WHO I AM, DAVID.

I SLEEP WELL AT NIGHT.

I'M A TRANSPARENT, ACCESSIBLE GUY.

I PUT FORTH MY CANDIDACY.

I HAVE GREAT FAITH IN THE VOTERS.

>> WHAT DO YOU SAY TO CRITICS WHO SAY YOU'RE SETTING A BAD EXAMPLE BY MAKING CAMPAIGN STOPS WHERE YOU DON'T WEAR A MASK?

>> WELL, DAVID, I TAKE TWO LIFE-SAVING MEDICATIONS, ONE IN THE MORNING FOR MY THYROID AND ONE AT NIGHT FOR MY CHOLESTEROL.

I DO MY VERY BEST TO BE COMPLIANT.

>> ARE YOU VACCINATED?

>> I AM NOT, BUT NOW THAT IT'S BEEN OPEN TO THOSE 55 AND OLDER, I'LL BE SCHEDULING MY APPOINTMENT I THINK AS SOON AS TOMORROW.

>> DO YOU RECOMMEND THAT OTHER PEOPLE GET VACCINATED?

>> I DO.

I DO.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE MANDATED.

>> ARE YOU STILL OKAY WITH ED DURFEY, RUNNING FOR ASSEMBLY ON THE LINE WITH YOU?

>> I DON'T KNOW OF ED'S VOTING RECORD, I DON'T KNOW OF HIS BACKGROUND.

>> HE'S A MEMBER OF THE OATH KEEPERS.

>> THE QUESTION IS WHAT?

>> WELL, I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM AND WHAT KIND OF AFFILIATIONS ARE OKAY WITH YOU.

THE STATE'S DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY CALL THEM A HOMEGROWN DOMESTIC TERRORIST GROUP.

>> WELL, LISTEN, IF ANYONE ADVOCATES TERRORISM, THEY SHOULD NOT BE ON THE BALLOT.

SO I DON'T KNOW ED'S PERSONAL OPINIONS OR BELIEFS OR HIS PREVIOUS CONDUCT, BUT I WOULD HOPE THAT THAT WOULD NOT BE THE CASE, THAT HE BE ADVOCATING FOR TERRORISM.

IF HE IS, HE SHOULDN'T BE ON THE BALLOT.

>> SHOULD CORRECTIONS COMMISSIONER MARCUS HICKS RESIGN?

>> I BELIEVE HE SHOULD.

THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE TEN MONTHS AGO DETERMINED THAT THAT WOMEN'S PRISON WAS A RAPE CAMP.

THEY PUT OUT A NUMBER OF SUGGESTIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS.

NOTHING HAPPENED.

A YEAR WENT BY.

SO I REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND THE GOVERNOR NOT ASKING FOR HIS RESIGNATION.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND HIM NOT STEPPING DOWN.

IT JUST SEEMS THAT EVERY TIME WOMEN ARE ABUSED, IF THE MEN IN POWER WORK FOR THE GOVERNOR, THEY SEEM TO GET A PASS.

>> WOULD GOVERNOR CIATTARELLI FIRE HIM?

>> YES.

>> LAST QUESTION, DO YOU CARE IF CHRIS CHRISTIE ENDORSES AND/OR RAISES MONEY FOR YOU?

>> WHAT I CARE ABOUT IS WHEN PEOPLE CLOSE THE CURTAIN BEHIND THEM, THEY VOTE FOR JACK CIATTARELLI.

>> BUT YOU LIKE TO HAVE ENDORSEMENTS JUST LIKE ANY OTHER POLITICAL CANDIDATE.

WOULD YOU WELCOME AN ENDORSEMENT -- HAVE YOU TALKED TO CHRIS CHRISTIE?

>> CHRIS AND I TALK WHEN THE OPPORTUNITY PRESENTS ITSELF.

THERE'S ONLY ONE ENDORSEMENT THAT MATTERS.

PRIMARY VOTERS AND THEN ELECTION VOTERS.

>> JACK CIATTARELLI, THANKS FOR COMING ON WITH US.

>> LOOKING FORWARD TO NEXT TIME.

>>> WE SO SWITCH GEARS HERE.

OVER THE BREAK WE GOT A CHANCE TO TALK WITH KENNY AND KEITH LUCAS, KNOWN AS THE LUCAS BROTHERS, WHO WERE OSCAR NOMINATED FOR THEIR SCREENPLAY AND WORK ON "JUDAS AND THE BLACK MESSIAH."

WE STARTED THE CHAT TALKING ABOUT THEIR HOMETOWN.

LET'S TAKE A LOOK.

>> IT IS JUST EMBEDDED INTO OUR SOULS.

IT'S SHAPED OUR EARLY CHILDHOOD AND IT CONTINUES TO SHAPE US, THE CULTURE, THE POLITICS, THE RELIGION, THE PHILOSOPHY, THE CREATIVE PHILOSOPHY CONTINUES TO INFLUENCE US.

WE ARE DEEPLY INFLUENCED.

I KNEW HE WAS FROM NEWARK, BUT AS I'VE GOTTEN OLDER, I STARTED TO STUDY HIS WORK A LITTLE BIT MORE AND STUDY HIS TRAJECTORY, HOW HE WAS IN NEW YORK FOR A BIT, WENT TO HARLEM, THEN WENT BACK TO NEWARK AND BASICALLY CREATED THE BLACK ARTS MOVEMENT.

SO I THINK I'VE JUST LEARNED SO MUCH ABOUT THE HISTORY THESE LAST FIVE YEARS.

IT ALWAYS STAYS WITH ME.

>> SO AT SOME POINT YOU MOVED TO NORTH CAROLINA FOR A BIT AND THEN CAME BACK AND WENT TO THE COLLEGE OF NEW JERSEY TO STUDY, AM I RIGHT, PHILOSOPHY AND ECONOMICS?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

SO WE -- WE GOT BACK TO JERSEY OUR SENIOR YEAR OF HIGH SCHOOL.

WE STUDIED PHILOSOPHY AND THAT JUST OPENED UP OUR WORLD TO NEW IDEAS AND NEW WAYS OF THINKING.

>> SO YOU WENT TO TCNJ TOGETHER BUT THEN WHEN YOU WENT TO LAW SCHOOL, YOU TOOK SEPARATE PATHS IN LAW SCHOOL?

>> YEAH, WE DECIDED TO SPLIT AFTER A VERY SUCCESSFUL RUN IN COLLEGE.

WE SAID LET'S BE INDIVIDUALS AT TWO OF THE TOUGHEST SCHOOLS IN THE COUNTRY.

I WENT TO NYU LAW AND HE WENT TO DUKE LAW.

I HAD ORIGINALLY GOTTEN INTO DUKE AND I WAS GOING TO GO, BUT I DECIDED TO STAY AT NYU.

I HAD A GIRLFRIEND IN NEW JERSEY, SO I WANTED TO STAY CLOSE TO HER.

>> YOU KNOW, OUR THIRD YEAR WE WERE JUST LIKE -- WE WERE JUST LIKE CRUMBLING INSIDE.

I KNOW KENNY WAS JUST NOT IN A GOOD HEAD SPACE.

AND, YOU KNOW, HE WENT INTO COMEDY AND HE CONVINCED ME THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK WE WILL ENJOY DOING.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK WILL MAKE US HAPPY.

AND THAT'S ALL I REALLY NEEDED TO HEAR.

YEAH, THIS ISN'T MAKING ME HAPPY.

I WANT TO DO THINGS THAT MAKE ME HAPPY.

>> SO YOU'RE DOING STAND-UP, WHICH AS A DUO, YOU KNOW, IS VERY DIFFICULT BECAUSE THE TIMING IS SO MUCH A PART OF THAT.

BUT I GUESS YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN COMPLETING EACH OTHER'S SENTENCES FOR DECADES, YEAH?

>> RIGHT, YEAH.

WE ALWAYS HAD GOOD TIMING AS TWINS, NATURALLY, BUT STAND-UP IS A DIFFERENT MECHANISM BY WHICH YOU USE TO COMMUNICATE A PARTICULAR MESSAGE, SO WE NEEDED TO FIGURE OUT THE MECHANICS OF STAND-UP BEFORE WE COULD IMBUE OUR ROUTINE WITH OUR NATURAL CHEMISTRY.

BEFORE WE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE MECHANICS OF STAND-UP.

>> IT WAS EQUALLY TOUGH BECAUSE ALL OF OUR HEROES DIDN'T HAVE A TWIN NEXT TO THEM.

EVERYBODY WE STUDIED, THEY WERE ALONE.

THEY GOT TO LIKE -- THEY GOT TO WORK ON THEIR STYLE AND THEIR MATERIAL UNENCUMBERED BY ANOTHER PERSON.

WE DIDN'T HAVE A PRECEDENT.

WE DIDN'T HAVE SOMEONE TO LOOK BACK TO AND SAY WE CAN BUILD ON THAT.

WE WERE JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE BEST WAY FOR US TO DO IT.

>> SO YOU MENTIONED ANIMATION.

I HAVE TO REFERENCE LUCAS BROTHERS MOVING COMPANY, WHICH TO THIS DAY I THINK IT'S FIVE YEARS LATER.

DO YOU KNOW THE LUCAS BROTHERS MOVING COMPANY?

STILL.

>> YEAH.

I'M SO -- I'M ALWAYS OVERWHELMED AND OBVIOUSLY HUMBLED BY, YOU KNOW, THE PASSION.

BUT IT'S A SMALL BUT MIGHTY FORCE OF PEOPLE WHO TRULY, TRULY LOVE THE SHOW AND QUOTE IT AND SWEAR BY IT.

YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST HUMBLING.

YOU KNOW, WE DID IT AT A TIME WHERE WE JUST WANT TO MAKE PEOPLE HAPPY, WE WANT TO MAKE THEM LAUGH.

>> SO THEN YOU GO FROM WHAT IS -- I DON'T KNOW IF STONER COMEDY IS A COMPLIMENT.

I MEAN IT AS A COMPLIMENT.

BUT YOU GO FROM THAT TO NOW YOUR MOST RECENT PROJECT FOR WHICH YOU ARE NOMINATED FOR AN ACADEMY AWARD, "JUDAS AND THE BLACK MESSIAH."

HOW DID THAT COME ABOUT?

>> WHAT'S FUNNY, IT SEEMS IF YOU LOOK AT THE TRAJECTORY IN A LINEAR FASHION IT SEEMS LIKE WE STARTED WITH ANIMATION AND TRANSITIONED TO DRAMA.

BUT THE REALITY IS IT WAS 2013 AND WE WERE COOKING UP ALL THIS STUFF AT THE SAME TIME.

WE WERE THINKING ABOUT THE FRED HAMPTON STORY JUXTAPOSED WITH WILLIAM O'NEILL AND WE WERE WRITING ANOTHER LITERALLY AT THE AT THE SAME TIME SO IT'S VERY FASCINATING THAT THE MIND IS CAPABLE OF ENTERTAINING TWO SEEMINGLY CONTRADICTORY THOUGHTS, BUT WE WERE ABLE TO DO THAT.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THE TRANSITION FOR US, IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT THAT, IS PRETTY SEAMLESS BECAUSE WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN INTO IDEAS THAT WEREN'T NECESSARILY -- EVEN KEITH BACK IN COLLEGE WAS STUDYING GREEK TRAGEDY.

HE KIND OF SCHOOLED ME TO THAT STUFF.

I GOT INTO FRENCH EXISTENTIALISM AND SAMUEL BECKETT AND THE COMIC TRAGIC NATURE OF REALITY AND THAT'S JUST SOMETHING WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN INTO.

>> A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT STRIKE ME ABOUT THIS FILM, NUMBER ONE, THE RIDICULOUS CAST.

>> RIGHT.

>> I THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO LOOK BACK AT THIS FILM IN TEN YEARS, MAYBE EVEN LESS, AND SAY LOOK AT THIS CAST.

DANIEL KALUA, KEITH STANFIELD WHO IS BECOMING ONE OF MY FAVORITE ACTORS.

I MEAN THE WHOLE CAST IS TOP RATED.

>> STACKED, IT'S STACKED.

DOMINIQUE FISHBACK, IT'S YOU JUST HAVE A STACKED CAST.

AND AGAIN, I THINK IT'S IN LARGE PART BECAUSE I THINK PEOPLE WERE SO COMMITTED TO BEING A PART OF THIS PROJECT BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT IT WAS ABOUT FRED HAMPTON.

I THINK, AGAIN, WE ALL RECOGNIZED THAT IT WAS A LARGER PURPOSE HERE.

WE NEEDED TO SECURE FRED'S LEGACY BY MAKING A GREAT FILM.

EVERYBODY BROUGHT THEIR "A" GAME, EVERY SINGLE PERSON.

EVEN THE BACKGROUND ACTORS.

IF YOU WATCH THE FILM AND LOOK AT THE BACKGROUND ACTORS, THEY'RE BRINGING THEIR "A" GAME.

IT WAS A REMARKABLE EXPERIENCE TO GO THROUGH, JUST TO SEE SO MANY PEOPLE SUBMIT -- SUBMERGE TO FRED'S MESSAGE.

I DON'T THINK I'LL EVER GO THROUGH ANYTHING LIKE THIS AGAIN.

IT'S JUST REMARKABLE.

>> IT WOULD BE HARD TO TOP IT.

THERE'S ONE SCENE WHICH THIS MUST HAVE BEEN YOUR INTENTION, I HOPE SO ANYWAY, WHAT I CALL THE LAST SUPPER SCENE.

THE NIGHT THAT THE ASSASSINATION HAPPENS.

JUST HAVING EVERYBODY IN THE ROOM, HAVING THIS MEAL, IT WAS TO ME REALLY SUBTLE BUT SO POWERFUL CONSIDERING WHAT HAPPENED RIGHT AFTER THAT.

WAS THAT AN INTENT ON YOUR PART TO MAKE THIS FEEL, SEEM, APPEAR TO BE A LAST SUPPER?

>> WITHOUT A DOUBT.

THERE WERE TWO, FOR ME AT LEAST, TWO INFLUENCES TO ONE OF THE FINAL SET PIECES.

IT WAS THE LAST SUPPER WITH JESUS CHRIST AND THE DIALOGUES WITH SOCRATES.

THE APOLOGY WITH SOCRATES WHERE THEY TRY TO CONVINCE SOCRATES TO FLEE THE STATE INSTEAD OF DRINKING THE HEMLOCK THAT HE OF COURSE DENIES THEIR ARGUMENTS AND DRINKS THE HEMLOCK AND DIES.

I THINK THAT THAT WAS SORT OF AN INFLUENCE IN ONE OF THE FINAL SET PIECES WHERE THEY TRY TO CONVINCE FRED TO FLEE FROM HIS PERSECUTION.

BUT BEING THE HONORABLE MAN THAT HE IS, I MEAN IT WAS TOTALLY -- >> RIGHT.

I DON'T THINK WE SAID HIS NAME YET BUT WE'VE GOT TO GIVE PRAISE TO THE WRITING THERE, WILL BURSON AND ALSO THE CINEMAT CINEMATOGRAPHER, SHANE BOBBETT.

PAINTING THE PICTURE AND A BEAUTIFUL SCENE.

WHEN YOU READ THE STORY AND UNDERSTAND THE FACTS OF THE STORY, YOU CAN'T HELP BUT RECOGNIZE THAT THIS DOES FEEL LIKE THE LAST SUPPER.

>> YOU KNOW, I WAS FAMILIAR WITH THE STORY, BUT IT JUST STRUCK ME AT THE END OF THE FILM, FRED HAMPTON WAS 21 YEARS OLD.

IT STRUCK ME HOW THAT RESONATES SO MUCH TODAY WITH YOUNG BLACK MEN BEING IN PERIL AT THE HANDS OF POLICE.

AND SO HERE'S A STORY 50 YEARS OLD THAT JUST RESONATES SO STRONGLY TODAY.

>> YEAH.

I MEAN I'M NOT SURPRISED.

I THINK THAT THE HISTORY OF BLACK AMERICAN HISTORY IN THE UNITED STATES IS FRAUGHT WITH INSTANCES OF SYSTEMIC ABUSES AGAINST THE INDIVIDUAL AND AGAINST THE COLLECTIVE DATING BACK, YOU KNOW, TO SLAVERY AND JIM CROW AND MASS INCARCERATION.

YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST OUR HISTORY IS UNFORTUNATELY REPLETE WITH ABUSE AND TRAUMA AND SYSTEMIC VIOLENCE.

SO I'M NOT SHOCKED THAT YOU CAN LOOK AT TODAY AND THEN HARKEN BACK 50 YEARS AND FIND STORIES OF POLICE BRUTALITY AND SAY TO YOURSELF, MAN, SO MANY THINGS HAVE CHANGED BUT SO MANY THINGS HAVE REMAINED THE SAME.

I THINK THAT'S WHEN THE DENIALISM STARTS TO CREEP IN BECAUSE IT'S HOW HARD DO YOU HAVE TO FIGHT TO BE RECOGNIZED AS A HUMAN?

WHY IS IT SO DIFFICULT FOR A PARTICULAR SUBSECTION OF AMERICA TO RECOGNIZE BLACKS AS WORTHY OF BEING PROTECTED BY THE CONSTITUTION?

IT'S ASTONISHING THAT WE'RE STILL HAVING THESE CONVERSATIONS.

YEAH, IT'S JUST LAUGHABLE.

>> I MEAN WE ARE SEEING A LOT MORE BLACK CINEMA NOW.

I IMAGINE THAT HOLLYWOOD IS STARTING TO HAVE ITS CONSCIENCE RAISED A LITTLE BIT.

I WAS JUST THINKING OF A FEW FILMS BEFORE WE CAME ON THAT I'VE SEEN OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS, SMALL FILMS LIKE "MISS JUNETEENTH" AND "SORRY TO BOTHER YOU."

"LAST BLACK MAN IN SAN FRANCISCO."

ARE WE SEEING A NEW GOLDEN ERA OF BLACK CINEMA?

>> IT CERTAINLY FEELS THAT WAY.

YOU KNOW, DATING BACK TO -- I DON'T WANT TO SAY DATING BACK, BUT "12 YEARS A SLAVE" WHEN THAT MOVIE BROKE THROUGH AND WON BEST PICTURE, IT FELT LIKE THAT WAS A WATERSHED MOMENT.

BUT THEN YOU HAVE TO GET OUT, YOU HAVE "BLACK PANTHER," YOU HAVE "SELMA," YOU HAVE ALL THESE FILMS -- YOU HAVE ALL THESE FILMS THAT ARE TOUCHING ON THE BLACK EXPERIENCE.

IT CERTAINLY I FEEL HAS PUSHED BLACK CINEMA INTO A REALM IT'S NEVER BEEN IN BEFORE.

>> YOU GUYS ARE ON A TRAJECTORY.

I MEAN IF YOU CAN REBOOT "REVENGE OF THE IN OTHER WORDS" WITH SETH McFARLAND, YOU'RE NOT MESSING AROUND.

>> RIGHT, YEAH.

YOU'VE GOT TO TAKE BIG SWINGS.

YOU'VE GOT TO TAKE CHANCES.

YOU'VE GOT TO BE ABLE TO EXPAND YOUR HORIZON AND PLAY IN DIFFERENT GENRES AND EXPERIMENT AND PLAY.

WE'RE ARTISTS, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

YES, THIS IS A BUSINESS AND, YES, YOU HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO YOUR COMMUNITY AND, YES, THIS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS, BUT IT'S ALSO LIKE WE CAN'T FORGET THAT YOU'RE AN ARTIST WHO EXPERIMENTS, WHO HAS FUN.

I NEVER WANTI TO FORGET THAT.

I NEVER WANT TO GET JADED AND THIS IS JUST A PAYCHECK AND I GOT INTO THIS FOR MONEY AND I FORGET WHY I DECIDED TO DO THIS, AND THAT WAS TO HAVE FUN WITH MY BROTHER.

>> KEITH AND KENNY LUCAS, A REAL GREAT PLEASURE TO MEET YOU GUYS.

THANKS FOR TAKING A FEW MINUTES WITH US TODAY.

>> AWESOME, MAN, THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME TO INTERVIEW US.

THIS IS AWESOME.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> ALL RIGHT, THAT'S "CHAT BOX" FOR THIS WEEK.

THANKS TO OUR GUESTS KENNY AND KEITH LUCAS AND JACK CIATTARELLI.

JOIN US NEXT WEEK WHEN WE EXAMINE THE QUESTION OF PUERTO RICAN STATEHOOD VERSUS INDEPENDENCE.

YOU CAN FOLLOW US ON TWITTER @DAVIDCRUZNJ AND BE SURE TO SUBSCRIBE TO THE YOUTUBE CHANNEL TO GET MORE "CHAT BOX" AND OTHER GREAT CONTENT.

I'M DAVID CRUZ.

FOR ALL THE CREW OVER HERE, THANKS FOR WATCHING.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

>>> MAJOR FUNDING FOR "CHAT BOX" WITH DAVID CRUZ IS PROVIDED BY NJM INSURANCE GROUP, SERVING THE INSURANCE NEEDS OF NEW JERSEY RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES FOR MORE THAN 100 YEARS.

THE MEMBERS OF THE NEW JERSEY EDUCATION ASSOCIATION MAKING PUBLIC SCHOOLS GREAT FOR EVERY CHILD.

THE FUEL MERCHANTS ASSOCIATION OF NEW JERSEY.

THE NATIONAL OIL HEAT RESEARCH ALLIANCE AND BIOHEAT, THE EVOLUTION OF OIL HEAT.

PROMOTIONAL SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY INSIDER NJ, A POLITICAL INTELLIGENCE NETWORK DEDICATED TO NEW JERSEY POLITICAL NEWS.

INSIDER NJ IS COMMITTED TO GIVING SERIOUS POLITICAL PLAYERS AN INTERACTIVE FORUM FOR IDEAS, DISCUSSION AND INSIGHT.

ONLINE AT INSIDERNJ.COM.