♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> IN THE MUSICAL THE SOUND OF MUSIC, THE QUESTION WAS HOW DO YOU SOLVE A PROBLEM LIKE MARIA?

FOR US, IT'S WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO WITH MARY JANE?

STAY WITH US AS WE TALK WITH Dr. SHANNA BABALONIS ABOUT THE CHANGING ROLE OF MARIJUANA IN SOCIETY AND HEALTHCARE NEXT ON "KENTUCKY HEALTH."

IN THE 1950s, THALIDOMIDE WAS DISSPENCED TO CONTROL NAUSEA INDUCED PREGNANCY.

THIS DRUG AS THE THEN CURRENT PROCEDURES HAD NOT UNDERGONE RIGOROUS EVALUATION FOR EFFICACY OR SAFETY.

IT WAS SOON NOTED THAT WOMEN WHO TOOK THALIDOMIDE GAVE BIRTH TO BABIES WITH DETORM AT THIS OF THE LIMBS WAS MOST PROMINENT.

TO PREVENT ANOTHER THALIDOMIDE, THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION POLICY ON APPROVAL OF MEDICATIONS CHANGES AND THE PROCESS FOR APPROVAL BECAME FAR MORE STRING EBT THIS BRINGS US TO TODAY'S TOPIC, WHICH IS WHAT IS OUR POLICY ON MARIJUANA?

OR CANNABIS AS SOME WOULD HAVE US USE TO EMPHASIZE ITS MEDICINAL PROPERTIES.

WE ARE IN A CATCH 22.

THE STUDY OF MARIJUANA IS HAMPERED BY FEDERAL AND STATE REGULATIONS AND LIMITED FUNDING FOR SUCH RESEARCH.

THEREIN LIES THE CONUNDRUM.

HOW CAN WE KNOWINGLY PRESCRIBE A OR SUPPORT THE USE OF MARIJUANA AND OTHER CANNABIS PRODUCTS WITHOUT THE BENEFIT OF DATA ON THEIR SAFETY, EFFICACY AND LONG-TERM EFFECTS.

TO HELP ME AND POSSIBLY YOU GET A BETTER GROUP ON THE CURRENT STATUS OF MARIJUANA IN OUR SOCIETY, AND AS PART OF OUR FARM COPIA, WE HAVE AS OUR GUEST TODAY Dr. SHANNA BABALONIS.

Dr. BABALONIS OBTAINED HER BACHELOR OF ARTS DEGREE WITH WESTERN VIRGINIA, MASTERS OF SCIENCE FROM NORTH CAROLINA IN WILMINGTON AND Ph.D. FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY.

SHE IS NOW AN ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR IN THE DEPARTMENT OF BEHAVIORAL SCIENCE AND CENTER OF DRUG AND ALCOHOL RESEARCH AND IS THE DIRECTOR OF THE UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY CANNABIS CENTER.

Dr. BABALONIS, SHANNA, THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US TODAY.

HOW ARE YOU FEELING.

>> DOING GREAT.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HAVING ME I IMAGINE YOU ARE THE BUSIEST PERSON IN AMERICA RIGHT NOW TALKING ABOUT MARIJUANA.

>> IT'S REALLY BUSY BUT A REALLY BOOED BUSY.

WE ARE FORTUNATE TO BE ABLE TO HAVE FUNDING AND DO THE RESEARCH THAT WE ARE DOING.

>> THAT SOUNDS GOOD.

SO WHAT IS THE PREFERRED TERM?

IS IT MARIJUANA OR IS IT CANNABIS?

WHAT DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD BE USING?

>> YOU KNOW, LARGELY THEY'RE INTERCHANGEABLE, TO BE PERFECTLY HONEST.

SOME PEOPLE HAVE ISSUES WITH THE TERM MARIJUANA BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN ASSOCIATED WITH THE RACIST TYPE HISTORY; SLANDERING MEXICAN AMERICAN IMMIGRANTS.

OTHER PEOPLE ISSUE WITH THAT AND THINK THAT IT IS JUST SIMPLY A SPANISH WORD FOR THE PLANT.

AND SO THERE IS DIFFERING OPINIONS ON IT.

AND SO TYPICALLY THEY'RE INTERCHANGEABLE.

>> YOU DON'T HAVE A PREFERENCE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

>> WE USUALLY STICK WITH CANNABIS.

SOME PEOPLE HAVE IDENTIFIED THAT AS PROBLEMATIC AS WELL BUT WE USUALLY STICK WITH THAT IN THE SCIENTIFIC FIELD.

>> YOU CAN'T WIN FOR LOSING ON THIS ONE.

SO, TELL ME, WHAT IS THE U.K. CANNABIS CENTER AND HOW DO YOU GO ABOUT YOUR APPROACH TO STUDY CANNABIS?

>> SURE.

SO THE U.K. CANNABIS CENTER WAS CREATED AND ESTABLISHED BY AN APPROPRIATION FROM THE STATE OF KENTUCKY.

THE LEGISLATORS RECOGNIZED THAT WE REALLY NEEDED MORE CONTROLLED HIGH QUALITY CLINICAL RESEARCH BEING CONDUCTED IN THIS SPACE AND FELT THAT THE UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY WAS CAPABLE TO DO THAT WORK.

AND SO THEY GAVE US MONEY TO START TO DO CLINICAL TRIALS TO REALLY FIGURE OUT PROBLEMS THAT AFFECT PEOPLE IN KENTUCKY, CAN CANNABIS HELP THOSE PEOPLE AND THOSE CONDITIONS?

AND WHAT ARE THE RISKS AND BENEFITS AS WE DO THAT?

>> TELL ME ABOUT SOME OF THE TRIALS BECAUSE I KNOW A LOT OF US HERE-- A LOT OF US HEAR THAT THERE MAY BE A ROLE FOR CANNABIS WITH PATIENTS WITH CANCER, METABOLIC DISORDER AND OPIOID USE.

>> WE ARE FOCUSING ON THOSE THREE ISSUES AS PART OF OUR CANNABIS CENTER INITIATIVE.

SO OUR BOARD OF DIRECTORS HAS FULL CONTROL OVER OUR SCIENTIFIC AGENDA.

AND THEY HAVE KIND OF ESTABLISHED THAT THOSE WERE THE THREE MOST IMPORTANT PIECES THAT THEY WANTED US TO INVESTIGATE, PRIMARILY BECAUSE THEIR PRELIMINARY EVIDENCE THAT IT COULD BE EFFECTIVE FOR ALL THREE, IN SOME CAPACITY, IN ALL THREE OF THOSE CONDITIONS.

AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, THOSE ARE THE CONDITIONS THAT AFFECT KENTUCKY THE MOST.

SO KENTUCKY IS NUMBER ONE IN THE NATION IN CANCER.

AND SO IF WE ARE GOING TO ALLOW PATIENTS WITH CANCER TO HAVE THAT IN KENTUCKY, THAT'S A REALLY BIG IMPACT.

WE ARE ALSO VERY HIGH IN METABOLIC DISEASE AND OBESITY AND ALSO VERY HIGH IN OPIOID USE DISORDER.

SO... >> NO, PLEASE GO AHEAD.

>> SO IF THERE ARE RISKS AND BENEFITS TO CANNABIS, THAT'S WHAT WE ARE AIMING TO FIND OUT.

WHAT ARE THE RISKS IN THOSE CERTAIN POPULATIONS RISKS ARE GOING TO BE DIFFERENT IN EVERY PATIENT POPULATION.

AND BENEFITS CAN BE DIFFERENT IN EVERY PATIENT POPULATION.

AND SO FOR US, WE ARE LOOKING VERY CAREFULLY WITH CONTROLLED DOSES IN A VERY SCIENTIFIC WAY, DOUBLE BLIND PLACEBO CONTROLLED TRIALS FOR ALL THOSE CONDITIONS.

>> WELL, YOU MENTIONED A COUPLE TERMS WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT.

BUT FIRST, WHAT IS THE THUMB NAIL SKETCH OF WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO SEE WITH CANCER, METABOLIC DISEASES AND OPIOID.

CAN YOU GIVE US AN IDEA WHAT THE HYPOTHESIS OR HOW CANNABIS MAY BE EFFECTIVE?

>> SURE.

LET'S TAKE CANCER, FOR EXAMPLE.

THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL STUDIES THAT HAVE BEEN CONDUCTED NOT IN NECESSARILY IN A CONTROLLED WAY, MAYBE SURVEY STUDIES, TO REALLY LOOK AT WHAT ABOUT CANCER CAN CANNABIS HELP.

AND SO FOR OUR STUDY WE ARE NOT LOOKING AT THE CANCER ITSELF.

WE ARE NOT ASKING CAN MARIJUANA SHRINK A TUMOR.

THAT'S FIVE OR 10 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD, THOSE QUESTIONS.

OUR QUESTION IS PRIMARILY WHAT ARE THE TOLERABLE DOSES.

WE KNOW THAT PEOPLE WITH CANCER ARE ON LOTS OF DIFFERENT MEDICATIONS.

THEY'RE SOMETIMES FRAIL, SOMETIMES FRAGILE, SOMETIMES VERY SICK.

AND SO WE DON'T WANT TO GIVE, NECESSARILY, EVERYONE A VERY HIGH DOSE OF CANNABIS AS THEY'RE OR DEALING WITH CANCER AND SO OUR TRIAL WILL LOOK AT THREE ACTIVE DOSES AND PLACEBO TO SEE WHICH IS THE BEST DOSE FOR THE GENERAL CANCER POPULATION AND THEN WITHIN EACH ARM OF THAT STUDY, AND WITHIN THOSE THREE ACTIVE DOSES, WE ARE ALSO TESTING WHAT IS THE HIGHEST TOLERATED DOSE THAT SOMEONE COULD TAKE.

AND SO IF SOMEONE IS ASSIGNED TO A VERY HIGH DOSE, BUT THEY CAN'T GET THERE BECAUSE IT'S JUST TOO MUCH FOR THEM, THEN WE WILL LOOK AT WHAT IS THE HIGHEST THAT THEY COULD ACTUALLY TOLERATE IN THIS STUDY SO THAT THEY CAN STILL STAY IN THE TRIAL AND WE CAN STILL GATHER INFORMATION FOR FROM THEM.

AND THE WHOLE GOAL OF THAT STUDY IS TO START TO LOOK AT DOSING.

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT SCIENCE HAS SO LITTLE KNOWLEDGE ABOUT.

SO AS STATES LEGALIZE MEDICAL CANNABIS, WE ARE ASKED ALL THE TIME, WELL WHAT DOSE DO I START WITH?

DOCTORS AND PHYSICIANS AND SCIENTISTS HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TO TELL PEOPLE.

THEY JUST SAY START LOW AND GO SLOW.

WELL, WE WANT TO BUILD A MORE SCIENTIFIC APPROACH TO THAT AND A MORE MEDICAL APPROACH TO THAT BY SAYING WHAT ARE THE MOST EFFECTIVE DOSES?

AND WE ARE ALSO ASKING WHAT STRAIN OF CANNABIS CAN MAYBE BE THE BEST?

SO WE ARE TESTING TWO DIFFERENT THC ALONE AND THC COMBINED WITH CBD.

THC IS THE CHEMICAL YOU THINK OF AS MARIJUANA, THE ONE THAT PRODUCES THE HIGH AND EUPHORIC TYPE FEELING.

AND CBD IS THE CHEMICAL THAT DOES NOT PRODUCE A HIGH BUT WE THINK MAY HAVE SOME THERAPEUTIC EFFECTS.

>> SO WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THE DIFFERENT CANNABIS COMPOUNDS, APPARENTLY THERE ARE SEVERAL DIFFERENT ONCE.

YOU JUST MENTIONED T HC AND CBD.

IS THAT IT?

>> THERE ARE TONS MORE.

THERE ARE DOZENS TO BE HONEST AND THERE ARE-- THERE IS LITTLE TO NO DATA ON MOST OF THOSE AND WHAT THE EFFECTS ARE IN HUMANS.

>> SO IF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT DOSING CANNABIS DO YOU ALSO HAVE TO TALK ABOUT WHAT FORM A PERSON IS TAKING IT BECAUSE WE HAVE GUMMY BEARS, WE HAVE PEOPLE WITH INHALATION AND YET IT'S ALL CANNABIS.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

AND SO WE CAN KIND OF THINK OF IT AS A QUESTION ABOUT ROUTE OF ADMINISTRATION AND PRODUCT QUALITY AND BIO AVAILABILITY.

ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE REALLY IMPORTANT.

AND SO 5 MILLIGRAMS OF THC IN A BROWNIE IS NOT EQUIVALENT TO 5-MILLIGRAMS OF THC WHEN YOU INHALE IT FROM A PLANT.

CHEMICALS THAT ARE PRESENT IN YOUR BODY ARE DIFFERENT BASED ON ORAL VERSUS SMOKED ADMINISTRATION.

AND SO ALL THOSE THINGS AFFECT HOW SOMEONE MIGHT FEEL OR THE MEDICINAL EFFECTS OF CANNABIS.

>> SO THEN, WITH MEDICATIONS THAT ARE CURRENTLY AVAILABLE TO US, THERE ARE STRICT REGULATIONS ON HOW THEY'RE PROCESSED, AND HOW MUCH ACTIVE INGREDIENT IS ACTUALLY PRESENT.

>> ABSOLUTE LID.

>> SO WITH MARIJUANA THEN, TELL ME, TAKE ME FROM PLANT IN THE GROUND TO COMPOUND THAT WE ARE GOING TO DISPENSE TO SOMEBODY.

>> SURE.

AND SO THERE IS ZERO REGULATION ON BLACK MARKET CANNABIS.

AND A LOT OF BLACK MARKET CANNABIS CONTAINS HIGH LEVELS OF LEAD, HEAVY METALS, REALLY UNSAVORY THINGS.

WHEN SOMEONE SMOKES THAT, IF IT IS CONTAMINATED WITH THOSE THINGS, IT IS PRESENT IN THEIR BLOOD AND URINE SO THERE ARE SEVERAL STUDIES THAT HAVE COME OUT TO DISCUSS THAT.

CANNABIS IS A HYPERACCUMULATOR, THE PLANT ITSELF PULLS OUT THOSE TOXINS FROM THE SOIL WHICH CAN BE A GOOD THING FOR SOIL BUT NOT THE GREATEST THING FOR PEOPLE WHO THEN USE THAT PLANT.

STATE REGULATIONS ARE TYPICALLY VERY STRICT ON WHEN THERE IS MEDICAL CANNABIS IN A STATE THAT THE ANALYTICS HAVE TO MEET A SET STANDARD FOR HEAVY METALS FOR FUNGUS, FOR THC LEVELS AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.

SO YOU ARE REALLY LOOKING AT A STATE LEVEL REGULATION TO BE ABLE TO PROTECT CONSUMERS.

>> I'M GOING TO INFER FROM WHAT YOU JUST SAID, IF I WERE TO DRIVE TO CALIFORNIA AND GET A MEDICINAL CANNABIS COMPOUND, IT WOULD NOT BE THE SAME AS A COMPOUND THAT I PURCHASED IN COLORADO NECESSARILY.

>> IT COULD NOT BE.

THERE ARE STATE TO STATE FLUCTUATIONS BETWEEN WHAT IS ALLOWABLE AND THE LEVELS OF DIFFERENT CHEMICALS THAT ARE PERMITTED.

BUT OVERALL, MOST STATES HAVE DONE A REASONABLY GOOD JOB AT REGULATING THEIR CANNABIS.

ALTHOUGH, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE ISSUES STILL REMAINING.

BUT MOST STATES ARE DOING AN OKAY JOB.

>> YOU MENTIONED A COUPLE OF TERMS THAT I THINK ARE VERY IMPORTANT FOR THOSE OF US WHO ARE NOT DOING RESEARCH.

WHEN YOU SAID RANDOMIZED CONTROL TRIAL.

THIS IS SOMETHING IN-- AND DOUBLE BLIND.

THIS IS THROWN AROUND A LOT BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR THE KIND OF RESEARCH THAT YOU ARE LOOKING AT DOING?

>> BASICALLY WHAT IT MEANS IS THAT WAS WE ARE DOING IS WE ARE USING GOLD STANDARD RESEARCH PROTOCOLS TO LOOK AT THE RISKS AND BENEFITS OF CANNABIS.

SO WE CAN THINK OF LESS STRINGENT RESEARCH AS BEING SURVEY WORK.

SO YOU'VE TAKEN CANNABIS.

TELL US HOW YOU FEEL OR YOU'VE TAKEN CANNABIS, HOW DID IT HELP WITH YOUR CANCER SYMPTOMS?

OR HOW DID IT HELP YOU LOSE WEIGHT OR SO ON AND SO FORTH?

THE OTHER END OF THE SPECTRUM IS THE REALLY HIGHLY TIGHTLY CONTROLLED RESEARCH THAT WE ARE DOING.

AND SO WE ARE GIVING PEOPLE VERY SPECIFIC MEASURED METERED DOSES OF CANNABIS IN A DOUBLE BLIND WAY, WHICH MEANS THAT PLACEBO DOSES LOOK EXACTLY THE SAME AS THC DOSES IN OUR STUDY.

AND SO IF YOU ARE A PARTICIPANT IN OUR TRIAL, YOU DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU ARE GETTING THE ACTIVE DRUG OR YOU ARE GETTING PLACEBO OR WHAT DOSE YOU ARE GETTING.

AND SO THAT IS THE DOUBLE BLIND ASPECT TO IT THAT YOU DON'T-- ALL OF OUR DRUGS, ALL OF OUR MEDICATIONS LOOK EXACTLY THE SAME AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GETTING AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GETTING BUT AT THE END WE WILL KNOW.

THE RANDOMIZED PIECE OF IT MEANS THAT YOU HAVE AN EQUAL CHANCE OF GETTING PLACEBO IN THE STUDY.

YOU HAVE AN EQUAL CHANCE OF GETTING A LOW DOSE, A CBD DOSE, A HIGH DOSE.

THAT YOUR CHANCES ARE ALWAYS EQUAL OF WHICH GROUP YOU GET ASSIGNED TO.

WE WILL HAVE FOUR GROUPS AND THAT'S WHAT THE RANDOMIZED PIECE MEANS.

AND THEN THE PLACEBO CONTROL MEANS THAT WE ARE NOT GIVING EVERYBODY CANNABIS.

WE ARE GIVING SOME PEOPLE WHAT SOME PEOPLE CALL LIKE A DUMMY BILL, WHICH MEANS THAT SOMEONE GETS A DOSE, BUT THERE IS NO ACTIVE CANNABIS, THERE IS NO ACTIVE THC IN IT BUT FOR ALL OTHER RESPECTS, IT LOOKS EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE THC DOSES.

SO IF YOU HAD THEM ALL ON THE TABLE TOGETHER, YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE.

AND THAT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE JUST FROM.

>> ACTING WITH STUDY STAFF, FEELING CARED FOR, FEELING IMPORTANT, WILL HAVE A THERAPEUTIC EFFECT FROM A DRUG EVEN IF THERE NO, SIR ACTIVE DRUG IN IT BECAUSE-- EVEN IF THERE IS NO ACTIVE DRUG IN IT BECAUSE OF THE SOCIAL FACTORS SO HAVE YOU TO SEPARATE OUT WHAT IS SOCIAL FACTORS, WHAT IS EXPECTANCY, WHAT IS HOPE VERSUS WHAT THE DRUG ACTUALLY DOES ITSELF.

>> I'M GOING TO PRESUME THEN THAT EVERYTHING IS IN PILL FORM OPPOSED TO SOMEONE SMOKER-- SMOKING THIS.

>> WE HAVE TRIED A FEW DIFFERENT AREAS FOR THIS RESEARCH AND AVAILABILITY IS WHAT WE HAD TO GO WITH.

AND SO INITIALLY WE HAD COLLABORATED WITH A COMPANY THAT WAS GOING TO MAKE BROWNIE DOSES FOR US.

UNFORTUNATELY THAT DID NOT WORK OUT DUE TO LOTS OF EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES AND SO NOW WE ARE USING GUMMIES.

AND THEY WILL HAVE AN ARRAY OF CANABINOIDS AND PLACEBO.

>> RIGHTS GOING TO BE-- IT'S GOING TO BE WONDERFUL.

ALL THESE YEARS I HAVE TOLD MY PATIENTS TO STAY AWAY FROM ANYTHING IN A GUMMY BEAR.

AND NOW THERE MAY BE BENEFITS TO TAKING A GUMMY BAUER.

>> POSSIBLY.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE QUESTION.

SOMETIMES PATIENTS COME UP AND ASK, PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO ARE NOT IN THAT AREA OF RESEARCH AND SAY IS THIS SAFE FOR ME TO TAKE?

TELL ME THE ANECDOTAL EXPERIENCE OF USING MARIJUANA.

I MUST ADMIT I HAVE ONE OF MY RELATIVES WITH SEVERE EPILEPSY WHO HAD SEIZURES ON A REGULAR BASIS.

SHE HAD A BOYFRIEND SMOKING MARIJUANA ON A REGULAR BASIS.

SHE STARTED SMOKING IT.

NO MORE SEIZURES.

SHE DOESN'T EVEN HAVE THE FEELING LIKE SHE IS GOING HAVE A SEIZURE ANYMORE.

>> THAT'S FANTASTIC.

>> YEAH I CAN'T EXPLAIN IT.

SO WHAT DO I TELL SOMEBODY LIKE HAT?

DON'T USE IT BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW?

OR SAY HEY, YEAH, THAT'S YOUR EXPERIENCE.

WE HAVE TO WAIT FOR THE RESEARCH, I GUESS.

>> I HONESTLY THINK THE LATTER, LIKE IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A BUYER BEWARE KIND OF THICK AND TEST IT OUT IF YOU THINK YOU WOULD WANT TO BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE HAVE THE OPPOSITE REACTION WITH THC AND SEIZURES.

SOMETIMES THC CAN LOWER THE SEIZURE THRESHOLD FOR SOME PEOPLE AND THAT CAN DEPEND ON DOSE AND IT CAN OBVIOUSLY DEPEND ON A VARIETY OF FACTORS.

AND SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT ONE PERSON'S EXPERIENCE IS ONE FERN PERSON'S EXPERIENCE AND WE CANNOT GENERALIZE THAT TO THE COMMUNITY.

AND I KNOW HOW FRUSTRATING IT IS FOR THE GENERAL COMMUNITY TO SAY LIKE CAN I TAKE THIS?

IS IT SAFE?

WHAT DOSE SHOULD I TAKE?

AND FOR US TO SAY WE DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT WE DON'T KNOW HOW ALL THE RISKS AND BENEFITS FOR YOUR CERTAIN CONDITION, WE DON'T KNOW IF IT WILL HELP YOU.

WE DON'T KNOW IF IT WILL MAKE YOUR CONDITION WORSE.

AND HEY, WE ACTUALLY EVEN DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT DOSE IS GOOD FOR YOUR CONDITION.

THAT'S HORRIBLY UNSATISFYING TO TELL ANYBODY.

BUT THAT'S TRULY THE STATE OF THE SCIENCE FOR THE MOST PART WITH VERY FEW EXCEPTIONS.

THAT IS THE STATE OF THE SCIENCE AND WE CAN KIND OF DO SOME-- PUT SOME GUARD RAILS ON THINGS AND SAY IF YOU ARE GOING TO TRY IT, START WITH THE LOW DOSE.

MAYBE START WITH AN EDIBLE DOSE AND NOT INHALE ANYTHING BECAUSE WE DON'T THINK THAT THAT IS VERY GOOD FOR YOUR LUNGS.

AND SO WE CAN HAVE SOME GENERAL POINTERS.

BUT OVERALL, AS SCIENTISTS AND PHYSICIANS, THERE IS REALLY LITTLE THAT WE CAN GIVE FACTUALLY TO PATIENTS AT THIS POINT.

>> ARE WE BEING TOO CAUTIOUS WITH THIS?

I MEAN IN THE OPENING, I TALKED ABOUT THE THALIDOMIDE.

AND OF COURSE THERE ARE OTHER EXAMPLES OF WHEN COMMUNITY GROUPS HAVE PUSHED FOR THE RELEASE AND USE OF MEDICATIONS I THINK ONE CAN EVEN THINK ABOUT WHEN AIDS WAS JUST ON THE RISE AND THERE WAS A PUSH BY THE COMMUNITY THAT WAS AFFECTED BY THAT FOR THE RELEASE OF MEDICATIONS BEFORE COMPLETE TRIALS WERE DONE.

IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU SEE MIGHT HAPPEN EVEN WITH MARIJUANA?

>> I MEAN I THINK IT'S ALREADY HAPPENED, RIGHT?

SO, AHEAD OF THE TRIALS THAT THE FDA WOULD TYPICALLY USE TO APPROVE A DRUG, WE HAVE SEEN MEDICAL CANNABIS IN WHAT, I THINK THREE QUARTERS OF THE UNITED STATES NOW, IT'S PERMISSIBLE.

AND SO I THINK WE ARE ALREADY THERE.

I THINK WE ALREADY HAVE PERMITTED IT WAY AHEAD OF WHERE THE SCIENCE IS.

THE SCIENCE IS SO FAR BEHIND.

PUBLIC PRESSURE AND PUBLIC OPINION, IT'S EMBARRASSING.

IT'S OUT OF OUR CONTROL.

CANNABIS IS A SCHEDULE 1 DRUG.

IT'S VERY HARD TO GET FDA PERMISSION TO STUDY IT.

SO ON AND SO FORTH.

SO MANY REGULATIONS STOOM TO STUDY IT QUICKLY AND EFFECTIVELY.

BUT IT LEAVES US SO FAR BEHIND BUT IT'S AVAILABLE IN ALMOST EVERY STATE.

AVAILABLE TO A LARGE POPULATION OF PATIENTS BUT THE STUDIES ARE NOT THERE TO BACK IT UP.

IF THE STUDIES WERE THERE TO BACK IT UP, IT WOULD HAVE FDA APPROVAL FOR MANY DIFFERENT CONDITIONS FOR MANY DIFFERENT INDICATIONS.

BUT WE ARE NOT THERE YET.

>> YOU MENTIONED THE TERM SCHEDULE 1.

JUST FOR-- THAT'S A DRUG THAT IS MADE BUT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT CAN BE PRESCRIBED BY PHYSICIANS, CORRECT?

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

WHAT SCHEDULE 1 EFFECTIVELY MEANS IS THAT IT'S ALWAYS ILLEGAL NO MATTER WHAT.

AND THEN A PHYSICIAN CAN NEVER PRESCRIBE THAT DRUG.

AND THEN FOR RESEARCHERS, IT MEANS FOR PEOPLE LIKE ME, IT MEANS THAT I HAVE TO HAVE A SCHEDULE 1 DRUG LICENSE TO BE ABLE TO ADMINISTER IT TO PEOPLE.

BUT PHYSICIANS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO PRESCRIBE IT BECAUSE THE D.E.A.

AND THE FDA HAVE DEEMED THAT IT IS THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF ABUSE THERES NOT ENOUGH SAFETY DATA AND NO MEDICAL BENEFIT.

WE CAN PICK THAT APART AND ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT AND THAT IS LIKELY CHANGING ON THE NATIONAL FRONT HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS SUGGESTED IT COME DOWN TO A SCHEDULE 3.

THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED YET THAT IS JUST THEIR SUGGESTION BUT THAT'S WHAT SCHEDULE 1 MEANS, IT IS FULLY ILLICIT AND FULLY ILLEGAL ALWAYS AND STATES HAVE FOUND A WAY TO PERMIT LEGAL USE OF THAT EITHER RECREATIONALLY OR MEDICINALALLY THROUGH STATE LAW.

>> I WANT TO MAKE SURE BECAUSE I THINK SOMETIMES SOME OF OUR PATIENTS SAY WAIT A MINUTE, IT'S LISTED IN THE PHARMACOPEIA AS A SCHEDULE BUT IT'S ONE THAT WE CAN'T ACCESS.

HOW WOULD YOU-- AWE IS LOOK FORWARD, HOW DO YOU SEE CANNABIS BEING DISTRIBUTED OR HOW WOULD YOU WANT IT TO IF YOU WERE, YOU KNOW, YOUR RESEARCH IS DONE, YOU'VE DEMONSTRATED TREMENDOUS BENEFIT AS FAR AS TOLERATING CANCER MEDICATIONS AND THEREFORE , YOU KNOW, MARIJUANA SHOULD BE OUT THERE.

DOES IT JUST SHOW UP IN OUR PHARMACY AND THE HEALTHCARE PROVIDER WRITES A PRESCRIPTION FOR IT OR DISTRIBUTED IN A SEPARATE ENTITY MUCH LIKE YOU HAVE CANNABIS BEING DISTRIBUTED AT SHOPS AROUND THE COUNTRY NOW?

>> SURE.

SO I THINK WE CAN KIND OF THINK OF IT IN TWO DIFFERENT REALMS.

SO ONE IS THAT IT ACE RECREATIONAL DRUG THAT PEOPLE CHOOSE TO USE.

DO WE KNOW ALL THE RISKS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT?

NO, WE DON'T.

BUT WE DO KNOW THAT IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF RECREATIONAL DRUG USE, CANNABIS IS NOT THE MOST DANGEROUS DRUG, RIGHT?

NO ONE HAS OVERDOSE FROM IT.

PEOPLE CAN GET CANNABIS USE DISORDER.

IT CAN CAUSE PROBLEMATIC USE.

BUT IT CAN BE USED AS A RECREATIONAL DRUG.

THAT'S PART OF IT.

AND WHAT DO I THINK ABOUT THAT?

YOU KNOW, I THINK WE SHOULD PROBABLY CONSIDER ALLOWING SOME RECREATIONAL USE, RIGHT?

FOR ADULTS.

ON THE MEDICAL SIDE THOUGH, WHAT DO I THINK ABOUT THAT?

MY HOPE IS THAT AS A SCIENCE PROGRESSES AND WE CAN START TO, AS SCIENTISTS AND PHYSICIANS, START TO UNDERSTAND DOSING, START TO UNDERSTAND SIDE EFFECTS, START TO UNDERSTAND THERAPEUTIC EFFECTS, WE CAN MOVE IT THROUGH THE CHANNELS THAT WE TRUST, WHICH IS THE FDA AND FDA PROCESS, RIGHT AND SO CLINICAL TRIALS ARE CONDUCTED, DOUBLE BLIND PLACEBO CONTROLLED TRIALS LIKE WE'VE TALKED ABOUT.

THOSE ARE CONDUCTED AND THE FDA CAN RIGOROUSLY REVIEW THOSE.

AND WE ARE USING A PRODUCT THAT IS SAFE, IT'S STERILE AND I GUESS RYE DEALLY NON-SMOKED.

IDEALLY.

AND COULD BE MANUFACTURED WITH GOOD MANUFACTURING EXTRAS.

IT COULD BE SAFE FOR PEOPLE TO TAKE AND THAT IT WOULD APPEAR IN PHARMACIES AND THAT PHYSICIANS COULD WRITE PRESCRIPTIONS FOR IT.

JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WITH ABOUT 45 SECONDS OR SO LEFT,WHAT I WOULD LIKE YOU TO DO IS GIVE ME YOUR THREE BIG TAKE HOME POINTS.

OF COURSE YOU HAVE SO MANY THINGS YOU CAN DRAW FROM THIS.

WHERE WE STAND NOW AS FAR AS CANNABIS AND MEDICINAL USE.

>> SURE.

AND SO I THINK ONE TAKE HOME POINT IS THAT AS A SCIENTIST WHO STUDIES THIS ON A DAILY BASIS, I UNDERSTAND THE FRUSTRATION FROM THE GENERAL PUBLIC ABOUT BEING ABLE TO ACCESS CANNABIS AND THE FRUSTRATION THERE.

AND ALSO THE FRUSTRATION OF WHY ISN'T THERE MORE INFORMATION FOR US AND WHY ISN'T THERE BETTER SCIENCE?

I UNDERSTAND THAT AND I APPRECIATE THAT.

UNFORTUNATELY, THAT JUST IS.

AND SO I'M HOPEFUL THAT, WITH LOOSENING REGULATIONS, WE CAN TRY TO MOVE FORWARD CANNABIS MEDICINE AND MAKE IT A LEGITIMATE MEDICINE IF IT IS WARRANTED.

IF WE DO FIND OUT THAT IT WORKS FOR CERTAIN CONDITIONS.

LET'S SEE, ANOTHER TAKE HOME POINT-- >> I'M GOING TO LET YOU OFF THE HOOK WITH THAT ONE, ONLY IF YOU PROMISE WILL YOU COME BACK AND TALK ABOUT WHERE WE ARE WITH THE RESEARCH AT ANOTHER TIME.

Dr. BABALONIS, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR DISCUSSING THIS WHICH IS A FLUID TOPIC AND NEEDS BRINGING SOME CLARITY, AT LEAST FOR ME AND I HOPE FOR THE REST OF OUR AUDIENCE.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US TODAY ALSO.

EACH OF US MAY HAVE TO DECIDE AS TO HOW FAR WE WANT TO PURSUE RESEARCH IN CANNABIS' ROLE AS PART OF OUR PHARMACEUTICAL ARMOR AND ITS APPROPRIATENESS FOR SOCIAL AND RECREATIONAL USE.

IT WAS OUR INTENT TO PROVIDE YOU WITH A BIT MORE INFORMATION AS YOU DECIDE YOUR POSITION.

IF YOU WISH TO WATCH THIS SHOW AGAIN OR AN ARCHIVED VERSION OF PAST SHOWS, PLEASE GO TO WWW.ket.org/HEALTH.

IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION OR COMMENT ABOUT THIS OR OTHER SHOWS, WE CAN BE REACHED AT KYHEALTH@ket.org.

I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU ON THE NEXT "KENTUCKY HEALTH" AND PLEASE TRY TO KEEP UP WITH THE DISCUSSION ABOUT WHERE WE ARE WITH CANNABIS FOR MEDICINAL USE.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

KENTUCKY HEALTH ITSELF FUNDED IN PART BY A GRANT FROM THE FOUNDATION FOR A HEALTHY KENTUCKY.