WHAT A WEEK, FROM THE PRESIDENT ASKING A GEORGIA OFFICIAL TO FIND VOTES, TO RIOTERS ON A RAMPAGE IN THE CAPITOL.

WE'LL DISCUSS IT ALL NEXT ON "IVORY TOWER."

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> WELCOME TO "IVORY TOWER."

I'M BARBARA FOUGHT FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY.

ON THE PANEL TONIGHT, TO DISCUSS THIS ASTOUNDING WEEK, WE HAVE JUST WITNESSED ARE BOB SPITZER FROM SUNY CORTLAND, KRISTI ANDERSON FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY, NINA MOORE FROM COLGATE UNIVERSITY, AND PETER ENNS FROM COLGATE UNIVERSITY.

WELL, PANEL, THE WORDS TO DESCRIBE THE CHAOS IN THE CAPITOL THIS WEEK RANGE FROM ASTOUNDING TO UNSURPRISING TO HEART BREAKING.

AND IT MAY BE TOO EARLY TO GAUGE THE FULL IMPACT OF ALL OF THIS THIS WEEK, BUT BOB SPITZER, HOW DO YOU THINK HIS TORE YAPS WILL LOOK BACK AND HISTORIANS WILL LOOK BACK AND CHRONICLE THIS WEEK?

>> THERE IS A 1949 MOVIE STARRING JIMMY CAGNE CALLED WHITE HEAT AND IN THIS MOVIE HE PLAYS A VICIOUS GANGSTER AND IN THE FINAL SCENE OF THE MOVIE, HE CLAMORED ON TOP OF A HUGE GAS STORAGE TANK AND JUST AS HE EXPLODES THE TANK, HE SAYS TOP OF THE WORLD, MA.

AND TO ME, THAT WAS DONALD TRUMP ON WEDNESDAY.

THAT WAS HIS ULTIMATE ACT OF POLITICAL SELF I AM LAYINGS AND SENT THE RIOTING CROWD DOWN PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE TO CHARGE P THE CAPITOL BUILDING, WHICH THEY DID AND TO ME IT WAS THE CLOSING ACT THAT WAS THE LOGICAL CONCLUSION OF THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY AND I THINK IT WILL BE UNDERSTOOD AS THE PUNCTUATION POINT OF THAT PRESIDENCY.

>> I THINK THIS I WILL DISAGREE WITH YOU BOB.

I DON'T THINK IT IS THE PUNCTUATION MARK BECAUSE THE DEEP SEEDED RESENTMENT AND ANGER THAT WE SAW ERUPT THIS WEEK REALLY GOES ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE CIVIL WAR AND HAS JUST SORT OF JUMPED UP SINCE WE HAVE SEEN VARIOUS SIGNS OF THE DECLINE OF WHITE PRIVILEGE IN WAYS THAT DISPROPORTIONATELY AFFECT THE WHITE WORKING CLASS.

I WOULD AGREE THAT TRUMP HAS PLAYED A KEY ROLE IN FOMENTING THAT BUT FOR YEARS, EVEN PRIOR TO TRUMP, WHAT WE HAVE SEEN MESSAGING TO THE WHITE WORKING CLASS, IS THAT THEIR INTERESTED ARE CONTINUALLY IGNORED, THAT THEY'RE CHEATED OUT OF JOBS, THEY'RE WAY OF LIFE IS BACKWARD AND MOCKED, THAT AMERICAN CULTURE WILL CHANGE WITH OR WITHOUT THEIR INPUT AND THAT THEY'RE LESSER THAN, ESPECIALLY THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS.

I HAVE TO SAY THE LEFT HASN'T NECESSARILY HELPED WITH THAT.

HILLARY CLINTON WITH HER BASKET OF DEPLORABLE COMMENTS AND OBAMA ABOUT HIS COMMENTS ABOUT GUNS AND PICKUP TRUCKS.

IN SUM AND SUBSTANCE, UNTIL WE CONFRONT THAT NARRATIVE, THAT NARRATIVE THAT HAS BEEN GROWING LOUDER AND LOUDER FOR THE WHITE WORKING CLASS FOR SOMETIME, WILL FIND MORE CHAOS BECAUSE THE ABSENCE OF WAR DOES NOT MEAN PEACE.

>> BUT I WOULD SAY THAT IN ADDITION TO CHANGING THIS NARRATIVE, WE SHOULD BE, AS A SOCIETY, LOOKING TO INCREASE OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE.

CERTAINLY WHITE WORKING CLASS AMONG THEM.

BUT THE GROWING INEQUALITY AND THE OPIOID EPIDEMIC AND ALL THESE SORTS OF TERRIBLE THINGS THAT HAVE HIT THE WHITE WORKING CLASS IN RURAL AREAS, PARTICULARLY DIFFICULT, ARE A RESULT IN LARGE MEASURE OF REPUBLICAN AND MAYBE DEMOCRATIC POLICIES THAT HAVE EXACERBATED ALL OF THESE THINGS.

SO THEY'RE NOT-- THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT WRONG TO FEEL LEFT OUT AND LIKE THEY AREN'T PART OF A SUCCESSFUL SOCIETY.

BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS, IN ADDITION TO CHANGING THE NARRATIVE, THAT SHOULD BE DONE.

HOPEFULLY IT WILL BE DONE IN THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION TO SOME EXTENT.

>> MY VIEWS MAY DIFFER A LITTLE BIT.

I DON'T SHARE BOB'S CERTAINTY THAT THIS IS THE FINAL PUCT WAITION MARK OF TRUMP'S PRESIDENCY.

WE HAVE OVER A WEEK UNTIL THE 20th SO I FEEL A LOT OF UNCERTAINTY ABOUT THE COMING DAYS.

AND I THINK-- I MEAN I THINK THIS IS A MAJOR HISTORICAL MOMENT.

THE CAPITOL WAS UNDER SIEGE.

AND I THINK ALTHOUGH THE POINTS ABOUT, THESE WERE RIOTERS WHO STORMED THE CAPITOL AND AND DESTRUCTION OF PROPERTY AND PEOPLE DIED.

I WANT TO KEEP THIS GROUP AND WHAT THEY DID SEPARATE FROM THE SORT OF GENERAL PUBLIC ATTITUDES I MEAN THIS IS JUST A MAJOR HISTORIC MOMENT, TRAGEDY, WITH MASSIVE CONSEQUENCES.

>> YES, YOU ARE RIGHT, AND OF COURSE BY TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE PROBLEM OF THE WHITE WORKING CLASS, THAT BOTH NINA AND I DO, NOT INCORRECTLY, WE ARE NOT PROPERLY BLAMING TRUMP FOR WHAT HAPPENED, WHICH WE SHOULD BE DOING.

>> I MEAN THE SOCIAL FORCES THAT YOU ALL DESCRIBED ARE OBVIOUSLY THE CONTEXT NOT UNIQUE TO THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY BY ANY MEANS.

BUT TRUMP UNLEASHED THE FURY.

TRUMP DID SOMETHING PAST PRESIDENTS HAVE NOT DONE, WHICH IS FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS, HE HAS PROVIDED A SAFE SPACE FOR EXTREMIST GROUPS TO COME OUT FROM THEIR DARK CORNERS TO HOLD PUBLIC DISPLAYS, YOU KNOW, THE PROUD BOYS AND ALL OF THESE OTHER PSEUDO PATRIOT GROUPS THAT WE HAVE SEEN ON DISPLAY CARRYING THEIR FIREARMS.

AND BY THE WAY, SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO CHARGED INTO THE CAPITOL WERE ARMED.

THERE WERE GUNS THAT WERE RETRIEVED.

AND GUNSHOTS IN THE WALLS OF THE CAPITOL THAT WERE NOT FROM GUARDS.

SO TRUMP HAS TAKEN THIS TO A NEW LEVEL.

I MEAN HE WILL BE OUT OF OFFICE ON THE 20th OF THIS MONTH.

PERIOD.

I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE NEXT FEW DAYS.

BUT I THINK WEDNESDAY WAS THE FINAL SUMMIT TO THAT.

>> I GUESS MY CONCERN IS ABOUT THE NEXT SEVERAL MONTHS AND ALSO THE NEXT TWO YEARS BECAUSE TRUMP DID NOT DO THIS ALONE.

HE HAD ENABLERS IN VARIOUS SOCIAL MEDIA AND TELEVISION AND PRINT OUTLETS.

HE HAD ENABLERS WITHIN CONGRESS AND ALSO AT THE STATE LEVEL.

SO I COMPLETELY DEGREE AGREE THAT TRUMP IS THE RING LEADER BUT HE IS NOT WITHOUT A CONSIDERABLE NUMBER OF OTHER LOD VOICES THAT HAVE ESPECIALLY ABLED HIM.

>> I WOULD GO ONE STEP FARTHER, NINA, BECAUSE I COMPLETELY AGREE ON THIS POINT.

AND FIRST WE SHOULD THINK BACK, REMEMBER BACK TO THE 2016 CAMPAIGN TRUMP DID NOT COMMIT TO RESPECTING THE ELECTION RESULTS IF HE WON LOST IN 2016 SO THE FALSE ACCUSATIONS OF FRAUD HAVE BEEN GOING BACK TO THE 2016 CAMPAIGN WHEN HE SAID THAT ELECTION WAS RIGGED.

SO THIS IS A PATTERN, FIRST OF ALL, THAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE.

SECOND, THE ENABLERS INCLUDE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

>> YES.

>> THE REPUBLICAN PARTY'S OFFICIAL PLATFORM IN 2020 WAS THAT THEY WOULD ENTHUSIASTICALLY SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT'S AMERICA FIRST AGENDA.

SO PARTIES, ALWAYS AROUND ELECTIONS, TAKE THAT AS AN ADVANTAGE TO IDENTIFY THE POLICIES THEY WANT TO STAND BEHIND AND ADVOCATE FOR.

AND INSTEAD OF IDENTIFYING POLICIES, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY SAID THEY STAND WITH TRUMP AND WHATEVER TRUMP'S AGENDA IS IS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY'S AGENDA.

AND THAT IS A CRITICAL ASPECT, IN MY VIEW, TO KEEP IN MIND.

>> YOU'RE RIGHT.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THE PRESIDENT.

ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES, RIGHT?

SINCE WE ARE RECORDING FRIDAY MORNING, WE FOE THAT MORE MIGHT HAPPEN BY THE TIME THIS SHOW AIRS.

BUT I'M WONDERING, NINA, WHAT SHOULD BE THE CONSEQUENCES FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP?

>> WELL, THERE SHOULD BE SOME CONSEQUENCES.

I SUPPOSE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I WORRY MOST ABOUT IS THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE A REPEAT OF PRESIDENT TRUMP IN 2024 AS PRESIDENT.

THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT THE FACT THAT HE HAS BEEN RAISING MONEY TO KEEP A BIG MIC AS IT WERE, OUTSIDE OF THE WHITE HOUSE.

BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, WE DO HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL HERE BECAUSE THERE IS THE LAW OF ACCOUNTABILITY.

BUT THERE IS ALSO THE POLITICS, AND IF YOU WILL, THE OPTICS OF ACCOUNTABILITY, AND WE HAVE TO BE MINDFUL OF THE FACT THAT THERE ARE 74 MILLION OF OUR FELLOW AMERICANS WHO VOTED FOR HIM AND ALSO THREE OUT OF FOUR REPUBLICANS, WHO CONTINUE TO BELIEVE THAT HE WAS CHEATED OUT OF THE ELECTION.

SO WHATEVER ACCOUNTABILITY STEPS HAVE TO BE TAKEN, THEY SHOULD BE TAKEN IN SUCH A WAY THAT THEY DON'T END UP MAKING A MARTYR OUT OF HIM.

AND HERE IS THE OTHER, I THINK, TRICKIER PART OF THIS, IS CERTAINLY WE SAW VERY DIFFERENT LAW ENFORCEMENT RESPONSE TO THE PROTESTORS IN MINNEAPOLIS AND KENOSHA AND PORTLAND AND ALSO IN SEATTLE.

WHATEVER PROSECUTIONS OF THE PROTESTORS RESULT FROM WHAT HAPPENED IN THE CAPITOL, THEY HAVE TO BE SOMEHOW COMMENSURATE WITH WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST IN THOSE OTHER INSTANCES.

IF NOT, THEN, AGAIN, THAT SORT OF DISPARATE HANDLING PLAYS INTO THIS IDEA THAT THERE IS A SWATH OF DEEP STATES THAT IS AGAINST THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE FIGHTING TO, AND I USE THIS TONGUE IN CHEEK, KEEP AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.

>> I AGREE WITH NINA THAT THINGS THAT PRODUCE ACCOUNTABILITY SHOULDN'T MAKE TRUMP INTO A MARTYR NECESSARILY.

BUT I AM VERY INTERESTED IN WHAT HAPPENS TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, IN WHICH TRUMP IS EMBEDDED.

AND IT HAS BEEN VERY INTERESTING TO SEE THE RESIGNATIONS OF VARIOUS STAFF MEMBERS, THE RESONATING I GO NATION OF BETSY DeVOS ANDY LANE CHAO.

I WAS AMAZED AT THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF MANUFACTURERS, NOT ONLY SAYING TRUMP HAS DONE BAD THINGS P BUT SAYING HE SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM OFFICE.

AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE OF THINGS NORMALLY.

SO I THINK IT'S FASCINATING TO THINK ABOUT THE REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS AND ARRAY THEM ON MENTAL CONTINUUM FROM MITT ROMNEY WHO HAS BEEN CONSISTENTLY CRITICAL OF TRUMP TO THE WISHY WASHY JOHN KATKO, FOR EXAMPLE, WHO DID COME OUT SAYING THIS WAS TERRIBLE AND WAS VERY CRITICAL OF TRUMP, TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE TOTALLY TRUMP'S ENABLERS.

JOSH HALLE, FOR EXAMPLE.

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.

CAN WE EXPLAIN THAT SIMPLY BY THEIR PER SENGS OF THEIR OWN-- PERCEPTION OF THEIR OWN BASE AND THEIR OWN AMBITIONS OR IS IT-- I DON'T KNOW, SOMETHING ABOUT THEIR PERSONALITIES OR THEIR BACKGROUND?

I THINK IT'S REALLY INTERESTING GOING FORWARD HOW HE, HOW TRUMP, IS DEALT WITH BY THE REPUBLICANS.

>> THE REPUBLICANS ARE TRYING TO GET THEIR FOOTING.

YOU CAN SEE THAT VERY MUCH IN THE CONGRESSIONAL REPUBLICANS IN PARTICULAR.

LIKE SOME ARE STILL CLINGING STRONGLY TO TRUMP.

MANY OTHERS ARE BACKING AWAY.

MANY ARE SILENT.

REMEMBER, JOHN KATKO DID ENDORSE TRUMP IN 2020 BUT... >> HE SAID TODAY I WOULDN'T HAVE VOTED-- I WOULDN'T VOTE FOR HIM NOW.

>> BUT HE ALSO SAID THIS IS THE GUY WE ELECTED.

AND IN FACT WE KNEW HE WAS LIKE THIS ANYWAY, RIGHT?

FOR THEM TO SAY I'M SURPRISED HE DID THIS STUFF THIS PAST WEEK, THAT'S BALONEY.

THAT STUFF HAS BEEN IN THE WORKS FOR FOUR YEARS AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED AND INTERESTING ALSO, THAT MIKE POMPEO AND STEVE IN THE CABINET HAVE HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH THEIR STAFFS ABOUT INVOKING THE 25th AMENDMENT BUT DECIDED AGAINST DOING IT BECAUSE THEY FEEL LIKE IT'S TOO LATE.

THEY FEEL LIKE SOME OF THE CABINET SECRETARIES ARE ACTING SECRETARIES, WHICH IS TRUE, IT'S NOT CLEAR IF THEY HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO SIGN OFF ON THE 25th AMENDMENT DOCUMENT.

AND THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE REPUBLICAN BACKLASH IF THEY DO THAT.

SO THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN EVEN THOUGH THE WALL STREET JOURNAL HAS COME OUT CALLING FOR TRUMP TO DESIGN.

THERE HAVE BEEN ALL KINDS OF RESIGNATION TALK.

IT'S REALLY INTERESTING.

>> PETER, LET ME PRESS YOU WITH MY ORIGINAL QUESTION.

WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN TO TRUMP, IMPEACHMENT, CENSURE, 25th AMENDMENT, NOTHING?

>> I THINK WE NEED TO-- WHAT HAPPENS BETWEEN NOW AND THE 20th AND BEYOND.

AND WITH THE DEMOCRATS CONTROLLING NOW THE HOUSE AND THE 50-50 SPLIT IN THE SENATE WHICH KAMALA HARRIS WILL BREAK, I PREDICT THERE WILL BE ONGOING INVESTIGATIONS INTO TRUMP, INTO THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AND SO THAT'S GOING TO CONTINUE FOR YEARS.

IN THE COMING WEEKS, WHAT I THINK WE ARE GOING TO SEE AND, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE ALREADY SEEN ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT DRAWN UP.

HOW FAR THAT GOES IS REALLY GOING TO DEPEND ON WHETHER THEY THINK THERE ARE VOTES IN THE SENATE.

AND IF THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, HE WILL BE IMPEACHED.

IF THERE ARE NOT SUFFICIENT VOTES, WE ARE NOT GOING TO START THE PROCESS AND IT SHOULD NOT START BECAUSE IT'S JUST GOING TO LOOK LIKE A WEAK CONGRESS IF THEY TRY THIS AGAIN AND DON'T SUCCEED.

AND ONE OTHER POINT THAT I THINK MATTERS A LOT.

BOB POINTED OUT THAT ON A LOT OF LEVELS, THERE IS NOTHING NEW.

THIS HAS BEEN FORESHADOWED AND CONSISTENT WITH TRUMP.

SO WHY ARE WE SEEING FOLKS AND ALLIES BREAK WITH HIM?

I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THE GRAVITY OF WHAT HAPPENED AT THE CAPITOL.

AND ONE WAY TO THINK ABOUT THAT IS THE SECOND, THIRD AND FOURTH INDIVIDUALS IN SUCCESSION TO THE PRESIDENT, IF THE PRESIDENT WERE TO LEAVE OFFICE, WERE ALL IN THE CAPITOL WHEN SECURITY WAS BREACHED.

AND VICE PRESIDENT PENCE, NANCY PELOSI AS SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE AND CHUCK GRASSY PRO TEMPORE OF THE SENATE.

SO TO THINK OF THE SECURITY RISK FOR THE MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE, WHAT THAT MEANT TO THE SECURITY RISK OF THE UNITED STATES IS JUST ALMOST INCOMPREHENSIBLE.

AND HOW REAL WAS THAT RISK.

JUST ONE QUICK ANECDOTE.

A COLLEAGUE OF MINE HAPPENED TO BE VISITING HER MOTHER IN THE INTENSIVE CARE UNIT AT THE HOSPITAL CLOSE TO THE HOSPITAL ON THAT DAY.

AND SHE INFORMED ME THAT THE STAFF WAS PREPARING IN THE ICU OF THE HOSPITAL CLOSE TO THE CAPITOL FOR MASS CASUALTIES.

SO HOW CLOSE WE WERE TO SOMETHING COMPLETELY...

IT WAS OUT OF CONTROL.

BUT COMPLETELY NEXT LEVEL IS JUST MIND BOGGLING.

>> THAT IS SUCH A KEY POINT AND I WANT TO MAKE ONE OTHER IN RELATION TO THAT WHICH IS THAT THROUGHOUT THE CIVIL WAR, THE CONFEDERACY, THE CONFEDERATE ARMY NEVER GOT TO WASHINGTON D.C.

BUT ON WEDNESDAY, I SAW CONFEDERATE FLAGS FLOPPING IN THE BREEZE OF THE HALLWAY OF THE CAPITOL AND THAT WAS DISGUSTING.

>> THAT WAS REALLY DISTURBING, BOB, IT WAS TO ME AS WELL.

LET ME TAKE US BACK.

THE WEEK STARTED, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, WITH NEWS OF A PHONE CALL BY PRESIDENT TRUMP TO THE GEORGIA SECRETARY OF STATE ASKING HIM TO JUST FIND ME 11,780 VOTES, RIGHT?

KRISTI, IS THAT JUST TYPICAL NEGOTIATIONS OVER A LAWSUIT PENDING OR WAS THAT REALLY INTIMIDATION OR CRIMINAL ACTION?

>> WELL, THE FACT THAT WE CAN ALL HEAR THIS IS KIND OF AMAZING.

AND, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD TAKE THIS AS JUST MORE OF THE, LET'S THROW MUD AT THE WALL AND SEE WHAT STICKS.

THEY HAVE HAD 60 LAWSUITS THAT HAVE BEEN TURNED DOWN.

HE CALLED MICHIGAN LAWMAKERS AND OTHER PEOPLE TO TRY TO...

BUT LISTENING TO THIS, IT REALLY DID SOUND LIKE, YOU KNOW, THREATS AND, YOU KNOW, IT SOUNDED VERY DANGEROUS.

IT SOUNDED LIKE HE WAS THREATENING THE MEMBERS OF THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS AND SO FORTH AND THAT HE WAS TRYING TO EXTORT THEM.

HE WAS DOING THE OPPOSITE THAT HE DID WITH THE UKRAINIANS.

AND I THINK THAT WHETHER IT IMPACTED THE VOTE OR NOT, IT CAN'T HAVE HELPED.

IT CERTAINLY MIGHT HAVE DISILLUSIONED SOME TRUMP SUPPORTING REPUBLICANS.

AND I HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT IT FURTHER MOTIVATED DEMOCRATS TO TURN OUT.

BUT THE MAJOR CREDIT FOR THE GEORGIA WIN GOES TO STACY ABRAMS AND ALL THE OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN WORKING, NOT JUST SINCE NOVEMBER, NOT JUST SINCE TWO YEARS AGO OR FOUR YEARS AGO, BUT FOR A REALLY LONG-- CERTAINLY EVER SINCE ABRAMS LOST IN 2016.

AND THEY HAVE JUST DONE A VERY CAREFUL JOB OF REGISTERING LOTS AND LOTS OF VOTERS, BLACK VOTERS, BUT ALSO REAL EFFORTS IN THE GROWING ASIAN AMERICAN POPULATIONS IN GEORGIA AND IN THE SUBURBS AND WERE OBVIOUSLY SUCCESSFUL.

THE DEMOCRATIC TURNOUT WAS INCREDIBLE.

IT WAS REALLY QUITE HIGH.

AND THE REPUBLICAN TURNOUT, I MIGHT SAY, WAS GOOD, TOO.

EVERYBODY-- IT WAS A HIGH TURNOUT ELECTION, PARTICULARLY FOR A RUN-OFF.

BUT DEMOCRATS OUTDID THE REPUBLICANS.

>> YEAH, AND I WOULD SAY THAT THIS WAS ONE INSTANCE IN WHICH NATIONALIZING WHAT WAS, IN MANY WAYS, A STATE RACE, WORKED TO THE ADVANTAGE OF DEMOCRATS.

IT WAS NATIONALIZED BY BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE, RIGHT?

EVEN THE CANDIDATES KEPT SAYING THAT THIS IS ABOUT AMERICA.

CHUCK SCHUMER SAID LET'S TAKE AMERICA BACK AND DONALD TRUMP PICKED UP ON THAT SAME MESSAGING THE RESULT IS, BY MAKING IT A NATIONAL ELECTION, IT REALLY SORT OF AMPED UP THE IMPACT OF TRUMP'S RHETORIC AND BY CASTING DOUBT ON THE LEGITIMACY OF THE ELECTORAL PROCESS, NOT ONLY IN NOVEMBER, BUT ALSO FOR GEORGIA, HE UNWITTINGLY, AND I THINK REALLY INDIFFERENTLY, DEPRESSED THE REPUBLICAN VOTE.

AND SO, YEAH, I AGREE 100%, STACY ABRAMS WAS LARGELY RESPONSIBLE FOR HELPING TO BRING IN THE MORE THAN $830 MILLION.

SHE RAN A BAD ASS GROUND GAME THROUGH HER ORGANIZATION FIGHT FOR ACTION.

BUT ALSO HER RUN FOR GOVERNOR IN 2018 AND THE NARROW LOSS THAT SHE SAW REALLY SORT OF OPENED UP THE POSSIBILITIES FOR WHAT COULD HAPPEN.

>> NINA IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

STACY ABRAMS DESERVES ALL THE CREDIT.

THE GEORGIA STATE CRIMINAL CODE CRIMINALIZES "CRIMINAL SOLICITATION TO COMMIT ELECTION FRAUD.

FEDERAL CRIMINAL CODE MAKES IT A CRIME TO KNOWINGLY INTIMIDATE, THREATEN COERCE OR ATTEMPT TO DEFRAUD WITH RESPECT TO ELECTIONEERING."

IT'S A CLEAR CUT CASE, AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED THAT WHAT TRUMP DID ON THE TELEPHONE LAST WEEKEND TO THE GEORGIA SECRETARY OF STATE WAS A CRIMINAL MATTER.

AND WHETHER GEORGIA WILL INVESTIGATE, I'M SKEPTICAL ABOUT THAT.

BUT I DO HOPE THAT BIDEN JUSTICE DEPARTMENT LOOKS INTO THIS AS A CRIMINAL MATTER BECAUSE WHILE PRESIDENTS ARE VIEWED AS IMMUNE, INCLUDING FORMER PRESIDENTS AND YOU DON'T WANT TO MAKE TRUMP INTO A MARTYR, TRUMP IS A CITIZEN AND SHOULD BE INVESTIGATED VIG VIGOROUSLY FOR THIS MATTER ALONE.

>> PETER.

I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

WE TALKED ABOUT IT BEFORE BUT WHEN IT CAME TO THE TALLYING OF THOSE ELECTORAL VOTES EARLY IN THE MORNING, SOME OF THE REPUBLICANS STILL PROTESTED ABOUT THE COUNT.

AND I'M WONDERING, WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE LASTING IMPACT OF THAT ON THE PARTY?

>> IT'S HARD TO KNOW, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.

THE-- IT'S REALLY MIND BOGGLING.

THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF FRAUD.

THE CASE AFTER CASE NOW 59 OUT OF 60 LEGAL CASES HAVE CONFIRMED THAT AND SO WHY THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS STICKING WITH-- NOT THE ENTIRE PARTY AT THIS POINT-- MEMBERS ARE STICKING WITH THIS NARRATIVE IS PRETTY MIND BOGGLING.

AND IT MATTERS IMMENSELY BECAUSE IT'S CHALLENGING THE DEMOCRATIC OUTCOMES AND IT IS BLAMING THE SYSTEM IN PLACE OF PROPOSING CONSTRUCTIVE POLICY PROPOSALS.

AND WHEN ONE PARTY IN A TWO-PARTY SYSTEM, INSTEAD OF PROPOSING CONSTRUCTIVE POLICY SOLUTIONS, CHALLENGES THE ELECTORAL SYSTEM AND BLAMES THE SYSTEM, IT REALLY POSES SIGNIFICANT PROBLEMS FOR DEMOCRACY.

>> WELL, AT THE SAME TIME, AND I AGREE WITH THAT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I WOULD SAY THAT ALL OF THE, YOU KNOW, BLUSTER THAT WAS PUT OUT THERE BY TRUMP AND HIS CO-CONSPIR CONSPIRATORS, THE RESULTS ARE THAT IT HAD ZERO EFFECT ON VOTERS IN GEORGIA WHO ARE TRADITIONALLY NOT REGULAR VOTERS WHO VOTE TO A LESSER EXTENT THAN THEIR COUNTERPARTS NAMELY MINORITY VOTERS AND POOR VOTERS.

THIS ELECTION MADE CLEAR TO THEM THE SORT OF IMPACT THAT THEY CAN HAVE.

AND I THINK THAT'S VERY, FROM A DEMOCRATIC PARTY STANDPOINT, A VERY POSITIVE OUTCOME FROM THIS, THAT THEY CAN BE MOBILIZED AND THAT THEY CAN CHANGE, NOT JUST VOTING IN A PARTICULAR ELECTION, BUT VOTING IN THE SOUTH STATES THAT HAS BEEN SOLIDLY RED.

>> AND THAT HAS DONE A WHOLE LOT TO SUPPRESS.

>> KRISTI, I'M GOING TO HAVE TO INTERRUPT BECAUSE WE ARE GOING TO DO SOMETHING UNPRECEDENTED AND THAT IS NOT HAVE As AND Fs BUT I WANT TO DO A QUICK WHIP AROUND HERE ON WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE STATUS OF OUR DEMOCRACY THESE DAYS?

AND BOB SPITZER, WHERE ARE WE WITH DEMOCRACY?

>> I THINK THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY AND THE EVENTS OF WEDNESDAY WERE A STRESS TEST FOR THE AMERICAN POLITICAL SYSTEM AND I THINK IT HAS HIGHLIGHTED A GREAT MANY PROBLEMS WITH THE SYSTEM.

I THINK WE HAVE ESCAPED A BAD OUTCOME, MOSTLY BECAUSE OF TRUMP'S INEPTITUDE, NOT BECAUSE OF THE DURABILITY OF THE SYSTEM.

I THINK WE HAVE THINGS TO WORRY ABOUT.

>> KRISTI, WHAT IS YOUR TAKE?

>> SEVERAL MONTHS AGO THOMAS FRIEDMAN WROTE A COLUMN ABOUT THE LACK-- HE WAS WORRIED ABOUT DEMOCRACY BECAUSE WE HAD LOST TRUST AND TRUTH AND THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT NEEDED TO BE IN A DEMOCRACY THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE AGREED UPON FACTS, WHICH WE TO LONGER HAVE THANKS IN PART TO THE MEDIA, AND THANKS IN PART, I WOULD SAY TO NEWT GINGRICH, WE DON'T HAVE TRUST.

WE HAVE... >> AND WE HAVE TOO MANY SOURCES OF MISINFORMATION AND WE HAVE A CORROSIVE PUBLIC DISCOURSE AND BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THE SORT OF FORM OF OUR DEMOCRACY, THE INFRASTRUCTURE, IT SURVIVED THE STRESS TEST THAT BOB MENTIONED.

>> ONE QUICK WORD FROM YOU, PETER.

HOW IS THE DEMOCRACY?

>> THE DEMOCRACY IN THIS COUNTRY IS IN A PRECARIOUS SITUATION.

WE NEED ACCOUNTABILITY AND WE NEED BOTH PARTIES TO CAMPAIGN ON CONSTRUCTIVE IDEAS AND POLICIES.

>> AND LET'S HOPE THAT HAPPENS.

THANKS TO YOU FOR WATCHING.

WE WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM YOU ABOUT THE WEEK THAT WAS.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

AND GOOD NIGHT.