THE.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

I'M JOINED AROUND THE TABLE THIS WEEK BY NINA MOORE FROM COLGATE UNIVERSITY, TY SEIDULE FROM HAMILTON COLLEGE, SARAH PRALLE FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY AND LUKE PERRY FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY A FEDERAL GRAND JURY LAST WEEK SENTENCED TO DEATH THE MAN CONVICTED IN THE WORST ANTI-SEMITIC ATTACK IN U.S. HISTORY.

ROBERT BOWERS MURDERED 11 WORSHIPPERS AT THE TREE OR LIFE SYNAGOGUE IN PITTSBURGH IN 2018.

HE TARGETED HIS VICTIMS BECAUSE THEY WERE JEWISH.

THE SENTENCE IS THE FIRST FEDERAL DEATH SENTENCE IMPOSED DURING THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.

UNDER PRESIDENT BIDEN, THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE HAS ESTABLISHED A MORATORIUM ON THE FEDERAL EXECUTIONS AND BIDEN HAS PLEDGED TO END CAPITAL PUNISHMENT.

SO, SARAH, DID THE FEDERAL PROSECUTORS, DID THE JURY MAKE THE RIGHT DECISION IN TERMS OF IMPOSING A DEATH SENTENCE?

>> WELL, FOR ME, THE MORE I READ AND LEARN ABOUT THE DEATH PENALTY AND HOW IT'S IMPLEMENTED IN THIS COUNTRY, THE LESS I LIKE IT AND SUPPORT IT.

I MEAN I THINK IF CAPITAL SENTENCES WERE RESERVED FOR LIKE THE WORST OF THE WORST CRIMES AND THE WORST CRIMINALS, WHICH THIS CASE IS ONE OF THOSE ADMITTEDLY, THEN I THINK THERE MIGHT BE AN ARGUMENT FOR RETAINING THE DEATH PENALTY.

BUT THAT'S NOT HOW IT OPERATES IN THIS COUNTRY AND IT NEVER HAS.

IT DOES NOT RELIABLYBLY CHOOSE THE MOST, THOSE WHO MOST DESERVE TO DIE, SO TO SPEAK.

INSTEAD, YOUR ODDS OF GETTING THE DEATH PENALTY IN THIS COUNTRY IS MORE TO DO WITH THE RACE OF THE DEFENDANT, THE RACE OF THE VICTIM, HOW MUCH MONEY YOU HAVE, WHICH COUNTY YOU COMMITTED YOUR CRIME.

AND IT'S JUST, AS JUSTICE STEWART SAID IN 1972 IN FUMAN VS. GEORGIA, IT FREAKISHLY IMPOSED.

THE ARBITRARINESS OF THE DEATH PENALTY DOESN'T TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THERE ARE WRONGFUL CONVICTIONS.

IN THE LAST COUPLE OF DECADES THERE HAS BEEN A LOT MORE MEDIA ATTENTION AND PUBLIC ATTENTION TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN WRONGLY CONVICTED AND WHO HAVE SAT ON DEATH ROW FOR DECADES OR HAVE BEEN ACTUALLY EXECUTE.

>> >> Brig.

Gen. Dix:: THERE ARE ALL THESE REASONS TO OPPOSE THE DEATH PENALTY.

BUT IN THIS CASE, IT SEEMS LIKE WELL MAYBE IT WAS THE RIGHT CALL?

IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING?

>> NO, BECAUSE I'M FOR ABOLISHISHING THE DEATH PENALTY PERIOD.

I'M VERY DISAPPOINTED IN PRESIDENT BIDEN.

>> I'M NOT SURE I'M DISAGREEING WITH YOU, SARAH, BECAUSE I WOULD SAY THAT IN THIS CASE, IF FER EVER THERE WERE A CASE THAT JUSTIFIED THE USE OF CAPITAL SENTENCING, THIS WOULD BE IT.

IT WAS A HEINOUS CRIME.

IT WAS A MASS KILLING.

AND IT INVOLVED TARGETING HISTORICALLY TARGETED GROUPS.

AND SO ABSOLUTELY HERE, IF WE SUPPORT THE DEATH PENALTY FOR PURPOSES OF RETRIBUTION AND VENGEANCE AND JUST SORT OF WHATEVER ONE'S CONCEPTION OF JUSTICE IS, BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, IF WE ARE USING THE DEATH PENALTY FOR THE PURPOSE OF DETERRING MURDER AND VIOLENT CRIME, ALL OF THE EVIDENCE HAS CONSISTENTLY SHOWN THAT WE DON'T GET THAT.

I'M NOT GOING TO SAY THE OUTCOMES I'M GOING TO MENTION IN A MOMENT ARE BECAUSE OF THE DEATH PENALTY, BUT WE KNOW THAT, IN STATES THAT HAVE THE DEATH PENALTY, THE MURDER RATE IS HIGHER THAN IN STATES WHERE THERE ISN'T THE DEATH PENALTY.

BUT THERE IS SORT OF THIS SEEDY UNDERSIDE OF CAPITAL SENTENCING THAT WE DON'T TALK ABOUT AS MUCH AND THAT IS IT'S PRACTICED IN COUNTIES THAT I WILL SAY HAVE SOMETHING OF A BLOOD THIRST.

THEY ARE MORE LIKELY TO USE THE DEATH PENALTY IF THERE IS A HISTORY AND A PARTICULAR PART OF THE HISTORY IS THAT STATES THAT PRACTICED LYNCHING OF BLACKS DURING THE EARLY 1900s ARE THE MOST LIKELY, ACTUALLY, TO USE THE DEATH PENALTY.

SO I THINK AS A CAN YOU BE THEIR WE HAVE TO DECIDE WHAT ARE WE USING IT FOR?

>> WELL, THAT WAS REALLY A QUESTION I WAS WONDERING ABOUT.

IS THIS ABOUT DETERRENCE OR IS THIS ABOUT PUNISHMENT?

LUKE?

>> THE SUPREME COURT HAS USED BOTH JUSTIFICATIONS IN DECLARING THIS ISN'T CRUEL OR UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT.

AND I THINK, AS NINA POINTED OUT, THE EVIDENCE OF DETERRENCE IS JUST NOT THERE.

AND THE RETRIBUTION PART REALLY GETS INTO THORNY ETHICAL AND MORAL QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT JUSTICE IS AND HOW BEST APPLIED.

ONE THING I'LL ADD IS THAT THE SUPREME COURT HAS ALSO TALKED ABOUT HOW PEOPLE WITH INTELLECTUAL DISABILITIES CANNOT BE EXECUTED.

AND IN THIS CASE, THAT WASN'T IN PLAY.

BUT THERE WAS, FOR THE CONVICTED TESTIMONY BY PSYCHOLOGISTS THAT THE PERSONAL WAS MENTALLY UNWELL AND SCHIZOPHRENIC AND DELUSIONAL AND THAT INFORMED HIS ACTIONS.

NOW THE PROSECUTION HAD SOMEBODY ELSE TESTIFY, A NUR OL JIFLT, THAT THAT WASN'T THE CASE.

BUT IF THERE IS DOUBT ABOUT THE MENTAL HEALTH OF THE PERSON INVOLVED, I THINK THAT IS A RED FLAG IN TERMS OF HAVING THIS TYPE OF PUNISHMENT, EVEN AS HEINOUS AS THE CRIMES WERE.

>> TREE OF LIFE SYNAGOGUE KILLING WAS DESPICABLE AND VILE.

AND MY SINCERE CONDOLENCES TO THE VICTIMS AND THEIR FAMILIES.

BUT THE IDEA OF CAPITAL PUNISHMENT IS THAT IT IS CRUEL AND UNUSUAL.

IT IS UNUSUAL BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE DON'T GET IT.

MY COLLEAGUES GOT IT RIGHT.

WHEN LYNCHING ERA ENDED IN THE SOUTH, CAPITAL PUNISHMENT BECAME THE NEW FORM OF THAT.

AND SO IN THE STATE OF GEORGIA WHERE I'M FROM, IT WAS UP UNTIL THE 1960s OR THE MORATORIUM IN THE 1970s,85% OF THOSE WHO WERE KILLED WERE AFRICAN-AMERICAN.

SO THIS HAS A DEEP CULTURAL AND RACIAL COMPONENT TO IT AND NOW WE ARE TALKING ABOUT FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

BUT MAINLY WHERE THE EXECUTIONS OCCUR ARE THE STATES AND WHERE THE STATE EXECUTIONS OCCUR, THEY'RE ALMOST ALL IN THE STATES OF THE FORMER CONFEDERACY.

SO IF YOU SCRATCH THAT AND SAY IT IS CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT-- I WOULD EVEN SAY BARBARIC AND SOMETHING WE AS AMERICANS ARE BETTER WITHOUT AND WE SHOULD DO AWAY WITH IT.

>> IT BEARS REEMPHASIZING SOMETHING SARAH MENTIONED, WHICH IS THAT THERE IS A DISPARATE RACIAL OUTCOME, NOT JUST IN TERMS OF WHO IS PUT TO DEATH, BUT THE RATES OF THE VICTIM.

AND SO WHAT THAT SAYS IS, WE ARE VALUING CERTAIN VICTIMS IN THE COUNTRY THIS MORE THAN OTHERS.

BUT EVEN MORE STRIKING-- AND I THINK THIS IS WHAT LUKE WAS GETTING AT-- IS THE INNOCENCE PROJECT AND VARIOUS OTHER ORGANIZATIONS HAVE ACTUALLY FOUND THAT, OVER A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME, FULLY 190 PEOPLE , WHO WERE ON DEATH ROW, ON THEIR WAY TO BEING EXECUTED, WERE FOUND TO BE INNOCENT.

AND THAT ON AVERAGE, 4% OF PEOPLE ON DEATH ROW ARE EVENTUALLY EXONERATED IN WAYS THAT ARE VERY CLEAR.

SO AS A COUNTRY, WE HAVE TO ASK OURSELVES, WHAT ARE WE GETTING OUT OF THIS, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE COST IS SIGNIFICANTLY GREATER AND THE ALTERNATIVE IS JUST AS IMPACTFUL.

>> SO APPLYING THE DEATH PENALTY HAS ALL THESE PROBLEMS, RIGHT?

THERE IS A RACIAL BIAS.

THERE IS AN ARBITRARINESS.

PERHAPS THE LAWYER IS NOT VERY GOOD.

IS IT EVER MORALLY JUSTIFIABLE?

>> I THINK THE STATE HAS THE RIGHT TO-- I MEAN THIS IS NOTHING NEW.

CAPITAL SENTENCING HAS BEEN AROUND SINCE THE FOUNDING SO THIS IS NOTHING NEW BUT AS WE HAVE GROWN AND DIVERSIFIED AS A COUNTRY AND SEEN THE UNEVEN APPLICATION OF IT, WE HAVE SEEN HOW CRIME HAS EVOLVED IN ALL SORTS OF WAY AS LONG LINES THAT WE CAN TACKLE, RIGHT?

IT'S NOT A QUESTION OF SIMPLY IF IT'S MORAL ANDETH-- AND ETHICAL.

IT'S IS IT EFFECTIVE BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT CMI CRIMINAL JUSTICE POLICY SHOULD BE ABOUT.

ARE WE FIGHTING CRIME WITH OUR CRIME FIGHTING POLICIES?

>> NOW, WHILE THERE ARE CONCERNS ABOUT THE STATE OF DEMOCRACY IN AMERICA, A KEY U.S.

ALLY IS FACING A CRISIS.

IN ISRAEL, THE RULING COALITION HAS PASSED A JUDICIAL OVERHAUL THAT RESTRICTS THE POWER OF THAT COUNTRY'S SUPREME COURT.

SINCE JANUARY HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN PROTESTING THE MOVE.

NOW MORE THAN 10 THOUSAND RESERVISTS SAY THEY WON'T SHOW UP FOR MILITARY DUTY.

PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU SAYS THE REFORMS WILL RESTORE BALANCE BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT AND JUDICIARY, WHILE THE FAR-RIGHT AND ULTRA-ORTHODOX PARTIES BEHIND THE MOVE SAY THIS IS ONLY THE BEGINNING.

NINA, HOW SHOULD THE U.S. OR THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION RESPOND TO SOME PRETTY UNDEMOCRATIC, IT SEEMS, REFORMS, IN A KEY ALLY?

>> YEAH, THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION SHOULD ASK ITSELF IF IT HAS CLEAN HANDS, IF IT'S GOING TO AVOID THE ACCUSATION OF HYPOCRISY BECAUSE THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS PUT IN PLACE A COMMISSION THAT IS GOING TO DO SOME SIMILAR THINGS AS WHAT HAS BEEN DONE OVER IN ISRAEL IN THAT THIS COMMISSION IS GOING TO DO THE SORTS OF THINGS THAT WILL CUT AGAINST JUDICIAL INDEPENDENCE.

I THINK WHAT IS DIFFERENT, RIGHT, AND WHY BIDEN MIGHT HAVE A LEG TO STAND ON IN TERMS OF BECOMING MORE INVOLVED, IS THAT ISRAEL DOES NOT HAVE A WRITTEN CONSTITUTION.

IT DOES NOT HAVE A WRITTEN CONSTITUTION.

SO THE PARAMETERS OF JUDICIAL POWER ARE NOT AS CLEARLY SET.

THE CONSEQUENCE OF WHICH IS THAT THIS COURT USES, NOT LIKE THE FOUR, YOU KNOW WHAT IS IN THE FOUR CORNERS OF THE CONSTITUTION BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE IT BUT RATHER SOMETHING CALLED THE REASONABLENESS STANDARD.

THE REASONABLENESS STANDARD.

SO THE JUDGES LOOK AT THINGS AND SAY WELL, YOU KNOW, WE THINK THIS IS REASONABLE.

OR WE DON'T THINK IT'S REASONABLE.

NOW WHEN IT COMES TO LAW, THAT MAKES SENSE, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO APPOINTMENTS AND SAYING TO BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, WE DON'T THINK THAT THIS IS A REASONABLE APPOINTMENT.

THIS IS REASONABLE.

THAT'S AN ISSUE.

>> SO COULD THEY VOTE-- BECAUSE IT HAS TO GO TO THE COURT AND SAY WELL, THAT LAW WASN'T REASONABLE?

>> I THINK THIS IS A CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS WITHOUT A CONSTITUTION.

AND IT'S A CRISIS IN ISRAELI SOCIETY ABOUT WHETHER THIS IS GOING TO BE A SECULAR OR ULTRAORTHODOX COUNTRY AND THOSE THINGS THEY'RE HAVING TO WORK OUT AND IT'S GOING TO BE MESSY.

I THINK THE MORE IMPORTANT THING FOR US TO LOOK AT AS AMERICANS, WE GIVE THEM $3.89 BILLION A YEAR AND IT'S BASICALLY AN ARMS PROGRAM WHERE WOE GIVE THEM MONEY AND THEY BUY F-35S TO US.

WE SIGNED A 10-YEAR CONTRACT IN 2016 SAYING THAT WE WOULD PROVIDE THIS FOR THEM.

AND IT'S A JOBS PROGRAM.

IT'S GOOD FOR OUR DEFENSE CONTRACTORS.

AND IT ALSO SAYS THAT THEY ARE A DEMOCRACY AS HOWEVER IMPERFECT THAT MIGHT BE.

RIGHT NOW WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE THAT THROUGH 2026 BUT WHEN WE RENEGOTIATE THAT IN 2026, I THINK WE SHOULD THINK CAREFULLY WHETHER THE 29th LARGEST G.D.P.

COUNTRY IN THE WORLD NEEDS THAT HELP ANYMORE AND WHETHER THAT IS APPROPRIATE FOR US TO DO.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT ANSWER IS.

RIGHT NOW I THINK A BIPARTISAN GROUP IN BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE SAY YES IT IS.

BUT I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.

>> IS THAT GOING TO BE CONTINGENT ON NATIONAL SECURITY INTERESTS FOR THEM AND US?

OR CONTINGENT ON THE EXTENT TO WHICH WE THINK THEY'RE DEMOCRATIC OR BOTH?

>> YES.

>> I DON'T THINK IT'S ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC..., AT LEAST RIGHT NOW.

IF THEY ANNEX THE WEST BANK AND BRING ANOTHER 2.2 MILLION PALESTINIANS INTO THE COUNTRY, THAT MIGHT BE.

RIGHT NOW IT'S RELOOKING AT A RELATIONSHIP WHERE THEY ARE MUCH RICHER THAN WHEN WE FIRST STARTED THIS.

BUT OF COURSE WE GIVE THIS MONEY TO EGYPT AS WELL.

IT GOES BACK TO THE CAMP DAVID ACCORDS.

>> I WAS JUST GOING TO ASK THAT ABOUT THAT.

GIVING 3.8 BILLION TO ISRAEL AND A HUGE AMOUNT TO ISRAEL, MIGHT BE SECOND IN TERMS OF TOTAL FOREIGN AID.

AND WHAT IS THE ULTIMATE POINT OF ALL OF THAT IN THAT REGION?

IS IT SIMPLY BECAUSE EGYPT IS NOT A DEMOCRACY.

ISRAEL IS BUT EGYPT CERTAINLY ISN'T.

WHY ARE WE DOING IT?

>> WE HAVE A BATTALION OF SOLDIERS BETWEEN EGYPT AND ISRAEL AND HAVE SINCE 1979.

>> BUT I DO THINK THAT THERE IS ANOTHER ELEMENT TO THIS QUESTION OF NOT ONLY IS IT A QUESTION OF ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR NATIONAL SECURITY INTERESTS SINCE SORT OF ENSURING THAT COMMUNIST COUNTRIES, YOU KNOW, SORT OF, THE SORTS OF DEMOCRATIC POLICIES THAT WE DON'T SUPPORT DON'T GROW.

BUT HERE WE ARE FACED WITH DO WE WANT TO USE THIS MONEY TO DICTATE TO COUNTRIES THAT ARE OUR ALLIES AND THAT BELIEVE GENERALLY IN OUR PRINCIPLES, MORE SPECIFICALLY HOW TO PRACTICE DEMOCRACY?

AND I'VE GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT.

>> I MEAN I GUESS ON THAT POINT, IT'S, YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK IT'S SUCH AN ISSUE LIKE WHAT IS THE U.S.-- HOW IS THE U.S.

GOING TO SANCTION ISRAEL BECAUSE IT'S HAPPENING WITHIN ISRAEL.

THERE IS AN ENORMOUS GRASSROOTS AND ELITE OPPOSITION TO WHAT BENJAMIN NETANYAHU IS DOING.

THAT'S ONE OF THE MOST ENCOURAGING PARTS OF THE STORY.

THEY HAVE BEEN PROTESTING NOW FOR OVER 30 STRAIGHT WEEKS AND THEY HAVE THE SUPPORT OF THE MILITARY.

THEY HAVE THE SUPPORT OF HEADS OF INDUSTRY.

SO THIS IS A REALLY STRONG MOVEMENT AND THEY SEEM TO RECOGNIZE THE KIND OF SLIPPERY SLOPE INTO AUTHORITARIANISM AND HOW YOU HAVE TO STOP IT FROM THE BEGINNING.

AND TO ME THAT'S ENCOURAGING BECAUSE I WORRY ABOUT OUR OWN COUNTRY, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY SLIPPING INTO MORE AUTHORITARIAN STYLES OF LEADERSHIP.

I HAVE SOMEONE IN PARTICULAR IN MIND.

>> YOU DO?

>> YOU WONDER HOW THE PUBLIC WILL REACT AND WHEN THERE ARE SMALL CHANGES LIKE A CHANGE, A SORT OF WHAT SEEMS LIKE AN ALMOST TECHNICAL CHANGE TO THE REASONABLENESS STANDARD, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN SEE HOW PEOPLE MIGHT JUST LET IT GO; ADJUST TO THE NEW REALITY.

THAT IS NO THE WHAT THE ISRAELIS ARE DOING.

AND I THINK PART OF IT IS BECAUSE THEY UNDERSTAND, TOO, THE END GAME OF BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO LOOK SEA SUBSTANCE OF WHAT HE IS TRYING TO DO WHICH IS ANNEX LARGE PARTS OF THE WEST BANK, PROBABLY DENY RIGHTS TO PALESTINIANS AND OTHER MINORITIES IN ISRAELI SOCIETY.

>> YEAH, THAT ITSELF KIND OF THE HEAD SCRATCHER HERE; THAT THIS COURT IS FARTHER TO THE RIGHT THAN MOST OTHER COURTS OVER THE PAST 20 YEARS.

IT'S MUCH MORE PRO-SETTLEMENTS THAN OTHER COURTS.

IT ALSO HAPPENS TO BE OUT OF THE 15 MEMBERS, SIX OF THEM ARE WOMEN.

SO THE FACT THAT THEY'RE CLASHING WITH THE BENJAMIN NETANYAHU GOVERNMENT SEEMS KIND OF WEIRD.

>> I SHARE YOUR CONCERNS IN TERMS OF THE STATE OF DEMOCRACY IN ISRAEL, BUT AT THE SAME TIME I THINK I'M ALIGNED WITH NINA IN AMERICA'S LIMITED ABILITY TO INFLUENCE THAT SITUATION.

AS TYE POINTED OUT, YES, THERE IS A LOT OF MONEY ON THE LINE BUT THIS WAS AN ELECTED GOVERNMENT.

IT'S AN IDEOLOGICAL DIVIDE AND, YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK AT THE 2016 ELECTION IN DEMOCRACY, THE CANDIDATE WITH THE LEAST VOTES WON IN DONALD TRUMP SO I DON'T THINK WE ARE IN A GREAT POSITION TO TELL OTHER PEOPLE HOW TO DO DEMOCRACY BECAUSE OF THE VESTIGES OF THE REPUBLIC WE HAVE.

I THINK OUR STRATEGIC OPTIONS ARE LIMITED.

NOW BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, THAT'S WHERE I SEE THE CONVERSATIONS HAPPENING RATHER THAN MORE PUBLIC AND OVERT SANCTIONS OR LIMITATIONS OF FUNDING.

>> OKAY.

THE BIG STORY IN SYRACUSE OF COURSE IS THE PLANNED MICRON SEMICONDUCTOR FACTORY.

NOW THE SYRACUSE POST-STANDARD IS REPORTING MICRON'S ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT WILL BE MUCH GREATER THAN EARLIER ESTIMATES.

A NEW REPORT FILED BY THE CHIPMAKER SAYS THAT WHEN THE PROJECT IS BUILT OUT IN 20 YEARS IT WILL NEED MORE THAN TWICE AS MUCH POWER AND WATER THAN INITIALLY THOUGHT.

THE POWER NEEDS IN PARTICULAR CLASH WITH THE STATE'S RENEWABLE ENERGY GOALS.

LIKE, LUKE, WHAT DOES OUR REGION NEED TO DO IN ORDER TO MAKE THIS MICRON PROJECT WORK?

>> I THINK WE NEED TO WORK WITH MICRON AND WORK WITH THE STATE TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE THE CAPACITY THEY NEED.

IF WE WANT INDUSTRY AND WE WANT JOBS, IT'S GOING TO TAKE RESOURCES.

PART OF MY REACTION TO THIS VERY GOOD INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISM IS OKAY, WELL, THAT MAKES SENSE.

LET'S FIGURE IT OUT AND DRAW ATTENTION TO THIS NOW.

I THINK WHEN WE LOOK AT RENEWABLE SOURCES OF ENERGY AND WHAT MICRON NEEDS TO DO TO GET THE STATE FUNDING, I THINK THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS THERE.

THERE IS A LOT OF WAYS THAT COMPANIES CAN REALLY THROUGH SHENANIGANS LOOK LIKE THEY'RE RENEWABLE AND THEY'RE REALLY NOT.

A LOT OF IT IS A VOLUNTARY MARKET WHERE THEY PURCHASE THINGS, THERE IS NOT A LOT OF THE ACCOUNTABILITY OR FOLLOW THROUGH THAT THOSE THINGS HAPPEN AND EMISSIONS ARE REDUCED.

AND IN ADDITION TO BUILDING CAPACITY, I THINK THE STATE SHOULD MAKE SURE THAT MICRON ACTUALLY PUTS MONEY INTO DEVELOPING NEW SOLAR FARM THAT WASN'T THERE ALREADY TO POSITIVELY CONTRIBUTE TO RENEWABLE ENERGY.

>> MICRON IS SUPPOSED TO BE 100% RENEWABLE POWER IN ORDER FOR THEM TO GET ACCESS TO SOME OF THE STATE GRANTS.

>> THE STATE IS SUBSIDIZING THEM WITH $5.5 BILLION BUT PART OF THAT AGREEMENT IS THAT THEY USE 100% RENEWABLE ENERGY AND RECYCLE THEIR WATER.

I THINK, AS LUKE SAID, I THINK THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS HERE.

AND ONE OF THE FINE PRINTS OF THIS AGREEMENT IS THAT IF MICRON DOES NOT MEET IT'S SUSTAINABILITY GOALS IN ANY PARTICULAR YEAR, THEY CAN GIVE MONEY TO A NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATION.

AND, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT AGAINST GIVING MONEY TO NON-PROFITS.

THAT'S GREAT BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT'S NECESSARILY GOING TO MAKE CHANGES ON THE GROUND.

IN OTHER WORDS, IS THAT REALLY GOING TO LEAD TO MORE RENEWABLE ENERGY?

IS IT GOING TO LEAD TO FEWER FOSSIL FUELS?

THERE IS JUST NOT A DIRECT LINE THERE.

AND THE AGENCY THAT IS OVERSEEING THESE THINGS IS THE OFFICE OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN THE STATE.

AND THAT HAS ME A LITTLE CONCERNED AS WELL BECAUSE, AS THEIR TITLE SUGGESTS, THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.

I WOULD LIKE THE D.E.C.

TO HAVE A ROLE IN THIS AS WELL.

>> I CERTAINLY THINK THEY'RE BUILDING ONE OF THESE PLANTS IN ARIZONA RIGHT NOW.

ARIZONA.

AND IF ARIZONA CAN BUILD ONE OF THESE, WE CAN BUILD ONE THAT'S CLOSE TO LAKE ONTARIO.

SO I THINK WE CAN DO IT.

I THINK WE SHOULD DO IT AND IF NEW YORK STATE COULD BUILD THE ERIE CANAL BEFORE THERE WAS POWER, I THINK WE CAN FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO THIS AND WITH PEOPLE AND GOOD OVERSIGHT ABSOLUTELY BUT I THINK WE CAN DO IT AND WE SHOULD DO IT.

>> AND IF WHEN-- IF THERE IS A CLASH BETWEEN THE RENEWABLE STANDARD AND GETTING THE THING BUILT, I MEAN, WHAT TAKES PRECEDENT?

>> PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO HAVE JOBS, PUT FOOD ON THE TABLE, GAS IN THE TANK.

THAT'S ALWAYS A NO BRAINER FOR ME, JUST, YOU KNOW, LET'S DEAL WITH WHAT IS BEFORE US RIGHT NOW AND WE CAN SAVE THE POLAR BEARS AND THE PLANTS AND EVERYTHING ELSE LATER.

>> AND THERE WILL BE A POLITICAL WORK AROUND.

IT WON'T EVEN COME TO THAT.

>> I TOTALLY AGREE.

>> WE ARE GOING TO GET THE WATER LINES IN AND POWER, JUST FOR CONTEXT, IT USES AS MUCH POWER OR WILL USE AS VERMONT AND NEW HAMPSHIRE TOGETHER.

>> AND ALL I CAN THINK OF IS IS THAT REALLY THAT MUCH?

>> THEY ARE SMALL STATES.

ALL RIGHT.

WE NEED TO GO TO As AND Fs.

WE'LL START NINA WITH YOUR F. >> SEVERAL MEMBERS OF A WHITE SUPREMACIST GROUP ARE SUING AN ACTIVIST WHO JOINED THE GROUP UNDER FALSE PRETENSES.

DAVID KAPITO ALLEGEDLY EXPOSED INFORMATION ABOUT THE GROUP'S MEMBERS INCLUDING THEIR NAMES AND OTHER PERSONAL INFORMATION ACCORDING TO COURT PAPERS.

THE MEMBERS INSIST THAT THEY LOST THEIR JOBS, INCOME AND RELATIONSHIPS WITH FAMILY MEMBERS NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE WHITE SUPREMACISTS BUT BECAUSE PEOPLE FOUND OUT THAT THEY ARE.

>> TYE.

>> MY F GOES TO COLLEGE FOOTBALL.

THE LATEST DEMISE OF ANOTHER CONFERENCE, THIS TIME THE PAC 12 WITH THE LUCRATIVE TV MONEY IN THE BIG 10.

IF THE HYPOCRITES WHO RUN THESE UNIVERSITIES SAY THEY'RE DOING IT FOR THE STUDENT ATHLETE, BULL-ONEY.

IF YOU THINK COLLEGE FOOTBALL AT THE DIVISION ONE LEVEL IS FOR THE STUDENT ATHLETE, WHY DO THEY HAVE TO TRAVEL ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, TENNIS TEALS AND ANY TYPE OF TEAM, TO COMPLETE COMPETE.

WE SHOULD FULLY PROFESSIONALIZE COLLEGE FOOTBALL SO STUDENTS DON'T PAY THE PRICE.

>> MY F GOES TO THE TRUMP LAWYER WHO LAID OUT A PLAN TO OVERTURN THE 2020 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.

A MEMO HE WROTE CAME TO LIGHT THIS WEEK.

HE IS JUST ONE OF MANY OF THE CO-SPIR TORES WHO ACTED TO THWART DEMOCRACY WITH THE FAKE ELECTORS PLAN BUT IT'S PARTICULARLY GALLING TO SEE LAWYERS PROMOTE SCHEMES THAT THEY KNOW ARE BLATANTLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND ILLEGAL.

THEIR BEHAVIOR BORDERS TO TREASON AND AT THE VERY LEAST THEY SHOULD LOSE THEIR ABILITY TO PRACTICE LAW.

>> LUKE.

>> MY F IS FOR FAREWELL TO ROBBIE ROBERTSON WHO WENT ACROSS THE GREAT DIVIDE, DYING AT THE AGE OF 80.

I'M LAUGHING BECAUSE THAT'S A PUN NOT BECAUSE HE DIED.

HE WAS THE LEADER OF THE BAND AND WROTE MANY ICONIC HITS AS WELL AS BEING BOB DYLAN'S LEAD GUITARIST.

>> OUR AS.

THAT COULD GET AN A FOR THAT GREAT WORK.

>> SCIENTISTS HAVE KNOWN FOR SOMETIME THAT CERTAIN DISEASES LIKE ALZHEIMER'S, SCHIZOPHRENIA AND DEPRESSION ARE PRECEDED BY A LOSS OF SMELL.

A NEW STUDY SHOWS THAT STIMULATING THE SENSE OF SMELL CAN BOOST MEMORY, ESPECIALLY IN OLDER ADULTS.

SO NOW WE HAVE ONE MORE REASON TO STOP AND SMELL THE ROSES.

>> TYE, YOUR A.

>> TO THE NEARLY 400 MILITARY OFFICERS AND THEIR FAMILIES WHO HAD THEIR LIVES UPENDED BY SENATOR TOMMY TUPPER FIELD.

THEY CONTINUE TO SERVE THE NATION FAITHFULLY EVEN THOUGH THE COUNTRY'S TREATING THEM WITH CONTEMPT AND THIS PHOTO SHOWED THAT WE HAVE NO COMMANDER ON THE MARINES CORP AND CHIEF OF THE ARMY.

THE CHILDREN'S LIVES ARE DISRUPTED AND YET THEY CONTINUE TO SERVE FAITHFULLY.

>> SARAH.

>> MY A THIS WEEK GOES TO VOTERS IN OHIO WHO SOUNDLY REJECTED A REPUBLICAN EFFORT TO MAKE IT HARDER TO AMEND THE STATE'S CONSTITUTION.

THE LAWMAKERS WERE LOOKING FOR WAYS TO PREVENT A PRO-CHOICE MARKET FROM PASSING A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT THAT WOULD GUARANTEE THE RIGHT TO ABORTION AND KNOWING THAT THAT HAD A GOOD CHANCE OF PASSING, THEY TRIED TO CHANGE THE RULES OF THE GAME.

BUT THE PUBLIC REJECTED THEIR CYNICAL ATTEMPT TO FURTHER INSTITUTE MINORITY RULE AND IT WAS A WIN FOR DEMOCRACY AND FOR WOMEN'S RIGHTS.

>> LUKE.

>> MY A GOES TO THE AIRLINE INDUSTRY.

THAT'S A FIRST.

THIS WEEK THEY INCREASED FLIGHTS OUT OF HAWAII AND REDUCED AND ELIMINATED TICKET COSTS TO HELP WITH EVACUATION EFFORTS.

GOOD JOB.

>> THANK YOU.

BACK TO ROBBIE ROBERTSON FOR A MOMENT.

AN INTERESTING THING WITH THE BAND.

THEY SORT OF ESTABLISHED AMERICANA MUSIC AND, OF COURSE, HE IS CANADIAN.

AS EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE BAND WAS EXCEPT FOR L LLEVI HELM.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

FOR COMMENTS, YOU CAN WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON THE SCREEN.

IF YOU'D LIKE TO WATCH THE SHOW AGAIN, YOU CAN DO SO BY GOING ONLINE AT WCNY.ORG.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FROM ALL OF US AT IVORY TOWER, HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.