>> "ALMANAC: AT THE CAPITOL" IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.

>> YOU WORK FOR US!

YOU DON'T GET TO SIT HERE!

>> Mary: QUORUM QUESTIONS AND NGER ERUPTS AS THE POLITICAL STANDOFF PERSISTS.

I'LL TALK WITH LEGISLATIVE LEADERS, PAST AND PRESENT.

THAT'S COMING UP AN "ALMANAC: AT THE CAPITOL."

>> "ALMANAC AT THE CAPITOL" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY... MANITOBA HYDRO PROVIDING CLEAN, RENEWABLE ENERGY TO MINNESOTA UTILITIES FOR MORE THAN 50 YEARS.

MANITOBAHYDROPOWER.COM.

FLINT HILLS RESOURCES, A LEADING PRODUCER OF THE FUELS MINNESOTANS RELY ON EVERY DAY.

MINNESOTA LOTTERY, DELIVERING GENERATING OVER $4 BILLION FOR OUR STATE SINCE 1990.

GREAT RIVER ENERGY: PROVIDING WHOLESALE POWER TO 27 MINNESOTA ELECTRIC COOPERATIVES.

THE SHAKOPEE MDEWAKANTON SIOUX COMMUNITY: A SOVEREIGN TRIBAL NATION IN SCOTT COUNTY.

MORE AT SHAKOPEEDAKOTA.ORG.

AND THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA.

HEALTHIER.

HERE, THERE AND EVERYWHERE.

>> Mary: WELCOME TO "ALMANAC: AT THE CAPITOL."

I'M MARY LAHAMMER.

COMING TO YOU LIVE FROM THE HOUSE GALLERY, WHERE WE HAVE UNPRECEDENTED ACTION AND TENSIONS RISING AS DEMOCRATS CONTINUE TO BOYCOTT SESSION CONVENED BY REPUBLICANS.

THE STATE SUPREME COURT WILL WEIGH INTO ALL OF THIS IN A HEARING TOMORROW.

BUT TONIGHT, WE HAVE THE FIRST WOMAN REPUBLICANS HAVE ELECTED HAS SPEAKER AND WE'LL HEAR FROM A DEMOCRATIC FORMER OUSE LEADER AS WELL.

AND HE'S A LAWYER.

SO IT WILL BE INTERESTING.

BUT, FIRST, SOME CONTEXT ON EVERYTHING THAT'S HAPPENING AT THE CAPITOL.

>> STOP THE COUP!

STOP THE COUP!

YOU LISTEN TO US.

YOU WORK FOR US!

YOU DON'T GET TO SIT HERE AND DO IT IN SILENCE AND ACT LIKE A [ BLEEP ] WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE QUORUM -- >> QUORUM QUESTIONS ABOUT THE LEGITIMACY OF LEGISLATIVE ACTIVITY IN THE HOUSE ARE CREATING NEW TENSIONS, AS PROTESTERS CAME TO THE CAPITOL, INTERRUPTING A COMMITTEE, CONSISTING OF ONLY REPUBLICANS.

>> YOUR VOTE IS GETTING TRANSWOMEN KILLED.

YOUR VOTE IS AFFECTING MY COMMUNITY.

YOUR VOTE [ BLEEP ] IS WHY I KEEP HAVING TO BURY MY SISTERS.

KNOCK IT OFF.

>> GET AWAY FROM MY PERSONAL SPACE.

AND STOP YELLING IN MY FACE.

>> THIS RESOLUTION IS URGING THE GOVERNOR TO ENFORCE THE LAW AND DIRECT THE STATE PATROL TO ENFORCE THE LAW AND HELP OUR SERGEANT AT ARMS SECURE THE ABSENT MEMBERS SO THAT WE CAN MOVE FORWARD WITH THE WORK OF THE HOUSE.

>> Mary: ONE SIDE OF THE AISLE IS STILL EMPTY, AS HOUSE DEMOCRATS CONTINUE TO BOYCOTT THE CAPITOL.

>> THE REASON WHY WE'RE TAKING THIS UNPRECEDENTED STEP OF DENYING QUORUM HERE IN MINNESOTA, FIRST TIME IN TATE HISTORY, IS BECAUSE WE'VE NEVER HAD A POLITICAL PARTY PROPOSE TO USE A VOTING ADVANTAGE TO KICK OUT A MEMBER.

>> DO THEY REALLY WANT TO KICK ME OUT, DO THEY NOT WANT TO KICK ME OUT?

AND EVERYTHING WE'VE HEARD IS THAT THEY ABSOLUTELY WILL, IF WE ARE TO STEP FOOT IN THAT BUILDING.

THEY KNOW IT IS PUBLICLY INDEFENSIBLE TO SAY THAT THEY ARE GOING TO KICK OUT A REPRESENTATIVE WHO HAS WON THEIR ELECTION, WON THEIR RECOUNT AND WON THEIR COURT CASE.

AND, SO, THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO DO IT AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE TELLING NOBODY.

>> Mary: REPUBLICANS ARE MOVING AHEAD WITH SESSION, INTRODUCING THEIR TOP THREE BILLS, ALL ADDRESSING FRAUD IN STATE GOVERNMENT.

THEY SAY THE AMOUNT IS APPROACHING A BILLION DOLLARS.

>> WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN THE LAST NUMBER F YEARS UNDER THE WALZ ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN A RAMPANT WASTE, FRAUD AND ABUSE.

>> IT'S TIME TO HOLD GOVERNOR WALZ AND HIS ADMINISTRATION ACCOUNTABLE.

EVERYWHERE I GO IN MY DISTRICT, FOLKS BRING THIS UP TO ME THAT THEY WANT THE WASTE, THE FRAUD AND THE BUSE TO STOP.

THEY'RE SICK AND TIRED OF THEIR HARD-EARNED TAX DOLLARS GOING THROUGH THE HANDS OF IRRESPONSIBLE STATE GOVERNMENT.

>> I CAN TELL YOU, IT'S BEEN SHOCKING FOR ME TO COME BACK IN HE LAST TWO YEARS AND SEE WHAT'S HAPPENED IN STATE GOVERNMENT.

THIS DID NOT EXIST.

MINNESOTA WAS A GOOD GOVERNMENT STATE.

FOR ALL OF ITS HISTORY.

UNDER BOTH REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRAT GOVERNORS.

>> Mary: GOVERNOR WALZ GOT A STANDING OVATION AT A HOUSING RALLY AFTER DELIVERING RECORD FUNDING FOR THE ISSUE IN MINNESOTA, ALTHOUGH HE SEEMS TO BE SPEAKING TO A BROADER POLITICAL AUDIENCE.

>> THIS IS A NATIONAL ISSUE THAT STRETCHES ACROSS THIS COUNTRY.

AND I COULD HAVE MISSED IT, BUT I DID NOT HEAR A SINGLE WORD ABOUT HOUSING YESTERDAY COMING OUT OF D.C. PEOPLE SAY, WELL, IT'S NOT ALWAYS ABOUT MONEY.

NO, BUT SOMETIMES IT SURE THE HELL IS ABOUT MONEY.

>> Mary: JOINING US NOW LIVE IS REPUBLICAN SPEAKER DESIGNATE LISA DEMUTH.

WE DO WANT TO SAY THAT WE INVITED AND DID GET CONFIRMATION FROM DFL SPEAKER DESIGNATE HORTMAN WHO HAS DECIDED NOT TO JOIN US BECAUSE THE CAUCUS IS NOT COMING TO THE CAPITOL.

SO WE'LL DIVE IN HERE RIGHT AWAY.

YOU PROBABLY SAW THERE, SO FAR THE DFL CAUCUS IS SAYING, THEY'RE NOT COMING BECAUSE YOU WILL REFUSE TO SEAT BRAD TABKE.

IS THAT TRUE?

WILL YOU KICK HIM OUT OF THIS CHAMBER?

>> THAT IS WHAT THE DFL CAUCUS IS CLAIMING RIGHT NOW, BUT I REALLY THINK THAT IT'S A DIFFERENT ISSUE WITH THE DFL CAUCUS.

RIGHT NOW WE KNOW THAT REPUBLICANS HAVE 67, AND BECAUSE THEY ENDORSED A CANDIDATE THAT WON AN ELECTION IN ROSEVILLE WHO HAD LIED ABOUT HIS ESIDENCY AND THE COURTS FOUND THAT HE COULD NOT TAKE THE OATH OF OFFICE, HE COULD NOT BE A MEMBER OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, THAT SEAT IS UNFILLED.

SO, THERE ARE -- >> Mary: AND IT WON'T BE FILLED NOW, IT LOOKS LIKE, UNTIL MARCH 11th, THAT IS PROBABLY THE NEW UPDATE.

WE DON'T HAVE THE CALLING OF A SPECIAL ELECTION FOR THAT, SPECIAL ELECTION IS STILL GOING ON OVER IN THE SENATE.

BUT LET ME COME BACK, YES OR NO, HAVE YOU CAUCUSED, HAVE YOU TAKEN A POSITION, DO YOU HAVE THE VOTES NOT TO SEAT BRAD TABKE?

>> I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE RECOGNIZE, AGAIN, DEMOCRATS HAVE 66 MEMBERS RIGHT NOW BECAUSE OF THE SPECIAL ELECTION THAT IS GOING TO BE CALLED EVENTUALLY BY THE GOVERNOR IN ROSEVILLE.

THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BRAD TABKE'S SEAT.

BRAD TABKE'S SEAT -- THEY'RE MAKING IT ALL ABOUT THAT.

WHAT IF THE COURTS COME BACK AND SAY, THERE WASN'T A QUORUM, IF THE COURTS DELEGITIMIZE EVERYTHING, THEY STILL SAID, THAT DON'T DOESN'T MEAN WE COME BACK, WE DON'T KNOW IF A MEMBER, TURNS OUT HE WON, I KNOW IT WAS CLOSE, 14 VOTES, I KNOW 20 VOTES WERE TOSSED AWAY BUT A JUDGE AID HE WON, AND THEY RE SAYING, NEVER BEFORE HAS SOMEBODY WHO WON NOT BEEN SEATED.

>> RIGHT.

AND IT'S IMPORTANT FOR YOUR VIEWERS TO RECOGNIZE, AGAIN, BRAD TABKE WON THAT ELECTION WITH 14 VOTES.

HE DID NOT DO ANYTHING WRONG IN THAT.

BUT THERE WERE 20 BALLOTS, NOW WE FOUND 21, THAT WERE DESTROYED.

AND THAT WAS PROVEN BY THE COURTS.

>> Mary: BUT HE SAID HE WON.

DO YOU BELIEVE HE WON ULTIMATELY?

>> HE WON THAT ELECTION BY WHAT WAS KNOWN RIGHT THERE.

THE PROBLEM IS, AFTER ELECTION NIGHT, IT WAS FOUND, THROUGH THE COURT -- THROUGH THE RECOUNT AND THE COURT PROCEEDINGS, SO EVEN THOUGH HE WON ELECTION NIGHT, THERE WERE 20 BALLOTS THAT WERE THROWN AWAY.

>> Mary: THE COURT DECISION WAS LONG AND DETAILED.

>> THERE AS.

>> Mary: THAT THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE A SPECIAL ELECTION, THAT THEY PROVED THE MATH.

IF THAT'S THE BARRIER TO GET THIS SESSION GOING IN A BIPARTISAN WAY WITH THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE, ARE YOU READY TO CONCEDE, YOU'LL SEAT HIM?

>> I THINK THAT WE NEED TO SEE THAT THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE IS WILLING TO COME AND DO THEIR WORK.

SO BRAD TABKE RIGHT NOW, AND HE WAS FIRST ELECTED IN '19, LOST, CAME BACK, YOU KNOW, SO IT'S BEEN A LITTLE BIT -- >> Mary: IT IT IS A SWING DISTRICT.

VERY CLOSE ONE, IT WAS ONE OF OUR RACES TO WATCH, TURNS OUT IT WAS.

>> IT WAS VERY VERY MUCH A SWING DISTRICT, STILL IS, BUT THAT'S NOT SO MUCH THE CASE.

THE THING IS, IF HE WAS SERIOUS ABOUT WANTING TO SERVE HIS CONSTITUENTS, HE, OF ALL PEOPLE RIGHT OW, YOU WOULD THINK WOULD ACTUALLY BE HERE WANTING TO DO THE WORK.

AND PROVING -- >> Mary: IF HE DOESN'T GET TOSSED, I THINK HE SAYS, I'LL COME, IF YOU DON'T KICK ME OUT.

>> AND WE'RE HEARING SENIOR MEMBERS OF YOUR CAUCUS ARE RELUCTANT TO DO THIS AND THERE ARE NOT THE VOTES TO KICK HIM OUT.

>> WHAT I CAN TELL YOU, THAT IS NOT TRUE.

>> Mary: REALLY?

>> UM-HUM.

>> Mary: OKAY.

>> WE HAVE NOT MADE A FINAL DECISION ON THIS.

>> Mary: OKAY.

>> AT ALL.

BECAUSE WE WERE WAITING FOR THAT COURT DECISION JUST TO SEE WHERE THAT WOULD LAND.

>> Mary: WHICH WAS A WEEK AGO, THEY KEEP POINTING OUT.

>> A WEEK AGO TUESDAY.

BUT, AGAIN, THE TABKE, ON THEIR SIDE, WHEN THEY PRESENTED, THEY SAID THIS SHOULDN'T BE UP TO THE COURTS.

IT SHOULD E UP TO THE HOUSE.

WELL, WE KNOW THAT THE HOUSE IS THE ONE THAT CAN JUDGE THE ELIGIBILITY OF ITS MEMBERS.

>> Mary: AND THAT'S BASED ON COURT PRECEDENCE PREVIOUSLY.

>> YES.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT 20 VOTERS THAT THEIR VOTES WERE COMPLETELY DESTROYED, DISENFRANCHISED.

NOW IN THAT FINDING, TOO, IT DID SAY THAT THEY COULD NOT COMPLETELY PROVE BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT THAT THAT'S EXACTLY THOSE SAME VOTERS WHEN THEY DID THE MATH.

>> Mary: BUT THEY FOUND THE VOTERS WHO TESTIFIED, HEY, I VOTED FOR HIM, THE MATH WON'T CHANGE.

LET'S PIVOT, THOUGH, BECAUSE YOU HAD A RESOLUTION TODAY, URGING THE GOVERNOR TO USE THE STATE PATROL TO COMPEL DEMOCRATS TO COME IN.

>> SURE.

>> Mary: THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE SAID TO ME TONIGHT, THEY'RE NOT ORGANIZED.

WE DON'T RECOGNIZE ANYTHING, AND YOU KNOW, THEY'VE TURNED DOWN ANY MESSAGES.

DOES THAT DO ANYTHING IF HE'S NOT RECOGNIZING THAT YOU'RE IN SESSION?

>> YOU KNOW, THAT'S UP TO THE GOVERNOR.

AND HE CLEARLY COULD CHOOSE TO SEE THAT A QUORUM OF 133 MEMBERS THAT WERE ELIGIBLE, 133 ELECTIONS OF CERTIFICATE ON DAY ONE, HE COULD RECOGNIZE THE QUORUM OF 67, IT'S JUST A BASIC MATH ISSUE.

HE COULD CALL THAT SPECIAL ELECTION.

WE ALSO TOOK THE STEP LAST WEEK TO SAY THAT IN THE 40B ELECTION, SO THAT IS THE CASE IN ROSEVILLE, ENDORSED CANDIDATE, NO RESIDENCY, EMPTY SEAT, SAYING THAT WE WOULDN'T DO ANYTHING FURTHER TO PLEASE GO AHEAD AND CALL THAT ELECTION.

SO, REALLY, IT'S GOVERNOR WALZ THAT IS DELAYING REPRESENTATION FOR THE ROSEVILLE SEAT.

WE KNOW THAT RIGHT NOW.

BECAUSE HE IS CHOOSING TO SAY, I DON'T WANT TO RECOGNIZE THE HOUSE RIGHT NOW.

WE GO TO THE SUPREME COURT AT 1:00 TOMORROW.

>> Mary: THAT WAS MY NEXT QUESTION BECAUSE THE SUPREME COURT TOMORROW POTENTIALLY CAN DECIDE WHETHER YOU'RE ACTUALLY ORGANIZED OR NOT.

WHAT IS YOUR ARGUMENT?

>> WE JUST ARE VERY LEAR IN SAYING 133 ELIGIBLE MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

THAT A QUORUM IS 67.

WE ALSO KNOW THE SEPARATION OF GOVERNMENT.

SO WE KNOW THE SEPARATION WITHIN THE GOVERNMENT, THE JUDICIAL BRANCH IS DOING THEIR JOBS, AS THE JUDICIAL BRANCH.

>> Mary: AND THEY COULD SAY, WE'RE NOT EVEN GO TO SAY ANYTHING.

>> THEY COULD.

>> Mary: THEY COULD SAY SEPARATION OF POWERS, WE'RE NOT GOING TO WEIGH IN.

>> THEY COULD.

>> Mary: HOW BUT AND SPEAKER DESIGNATE HORTMAN, ARE YOU STILL TALKING, NEGOTIATING, WHAT'S THE STATUS THERE?

>> I WAS REALLY -- WE REALLY ARE.

I WAS REALLY DISAPPOINTED THAT SHE CHOSE NOT TO BE HERE TONIGHT.

WE MET BRIEFLY YESTERDAY.

WE ARE STILL TALKING.

WHAT I HAVE BEEN CLEAR TO SAY, IF ND WHEN THEY OULD RETURN TO A TIE, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW ROSEVILLE BELONGS TO THE VOTERS, IT DOESN'T BELONG TO THE DEMOCRAT PARTY -- >> Mary: BUT IT WAS A BIG DFL -- >> IT WAS, ABSOLUTELY, BUT RIGHT NOW, IF IT GOES BACK TO THAT, WHENEVER THE GOVERNOR CHOOSES TO ACTUALLY CALL THE ELECTION AND WHEN THE VOTERS IN THAT AREA HAVE MADE THEIR FINAL DECISION, IF WE GO BACK TO A TIE, I AM HAPPY TO ENTERTAIN THE THOUGHTS ABOUT A POWER SHARING.

EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS.

>> Mary: THAT COULD BE MARCH, THAT COULD BE QUITE A WAYS OFF.

>> OR -- OR IT WOULDN'T HAVE TO BE.

BECAUSE, CLEARLY, BY NOT SHOWING UP AND DEMOCRATS DAY NINE ARE NOT SHOWING UP FOR WORK, THEY'RE PROVING THAT THEY DO OT WANT TO WORK WITH REPUBLICANS.

RIGHT NOW.

SO IT BRINGS IT ALL INTO QUESTION.

>> Mary: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING, SPEAKER DEMUTH, APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU.

♪ ♪ >> Mary: LAST WEEK WE HEARD FROM A FORMER MINORITY LEADER FROM THE REPUBLICAN SIDE.

TONIGHT WE HAVE A FORMER LEADER FROM THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE, RYAN WINKLER.

WHO'S ALSO AN TTORNEY.

WHAT'S THE ARGUMENT, TOMORROW'S THE SUPREME COURT.

DO DEMOCRATS 'HAVE THE UPSIDE, REPUBLICANS?

TAKE OFF A PARTISAN HAT HERE, THE LAWYER IN YOU.

WHAT DOES TOMORROW LOOK LIKE?

>> WELL, SO, THE CONSTITUTION HAS NEVER BEEN LITIGATED N WHAT IT TAKES TO ORGANIZE THE HOUSE.

>> Mary: AND THE CONSTITUTION IS THE HIGHEST LAW IN THIS.

>> THAT IS THE HIGHEST LAW, THE STATE CONSTITUTION.

MOST STATES THAT HAVE HAD THIS CASE -- THIS KIND OF CASE LITIGATED WOULD SAY THAT IT HAS TO BE 68 VOTES FOR A QUORUM AND 68 VOTES TO PASS A BILL.

BUT, AGAIN, THAT AS NEVER BEEN LITIGATED IN MINNESOTA SO THERE'S NO PRECEDENT.

BECAUSE IT'S THE CONSTITUTION, IT IS THE STATE SUPREME COURT THAT HAS THE FINAL WORD ON HOW MANY VOTES IT TAKES O CONSTITUTE A QUORUM IN THE STATEHOUSE.

>> Mary: LAST WEEK, MARTY SEIFERT OPENED THE CONSTITUTION AND SHOWED A PROVISION THAT SAID THERE WAS AN ABILITY TO CONVENE WITH FEWER THAN THE 134 AND HE WAS SAYING THAT LANGUAGE THERE MAKES THIS POSSIBLE.

>> I THINK MARTY KNOWS, I THINK EVERY FORMER HOUSE LEADER KNOWS, EVERY CURRENT HOUSE LEADER KNOWS THAT THE RULE IN THE MINNESOTA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES IS THAT IT TAKES 68 VOTES TO FORM A QUORUM AND 68 VOTES TO PASS A BILL, REGARDLESS OF WHO IS IN THE CHAMBER OR EVEN WHO IS SERVING IN OFFICE AT THE TIME.

>> Mary: SO IT CAN'T BE A DIFFERENT STANDARD FOR QUORUM VERSUS BILLS?

BECAUSE WHAT WE'RE HEARING IS PEOPLE AGREEING, YEAH, 68 TO PASS A BILL, BUT IT REALLY SEEMS TO BE QUESTIONED AND UNDER DEBATE WHAT A QUORUM IS.

AGAIN, THE LANGUAGE IS SIMILAR IN HE CONSTITUTION.

IT'S NEVER BEEN LITIGATED.

THE MAJORITY OF STATES WOULD SAY 68 AND THE LONGSTANDING DECADES-LONG PRACTICE IN THE MINNESOTA HOUSE HAS BEEN 68.

>> Mary: WHAT IF THE COURT SAYS, SEPARATION OF POWERS, WE'RE NOT GOING TO TELL THE LEGISLATURE WHAT TO DO, FIGURE IT OUT?

>> WELL, THAT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING THE COURT COULD DO.

ALTHOUGH THEN THE COURT -- INSTEAD OF STEPPING AWAY FROM THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH, WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS STEPPING AWAY FROM INTERPRETING THE CONSTITUTION.

AND I THINK THAT IS NOT SOMETHING THE COURT SHOULD DO.

>> Mary: SO DO YOU THINK THEY HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY BECAUSE IT'S THE CONSTITUTION?

>> THEY DO.

IN MOST STATES WHERE THIS LITIGATION HAS COME UP, THEIR FINAL COURT HAS WEIGHED IN.

>> Mary: MUCH WAS MADE YOU HAVE OF THE ALL-DFL APPOINTED STATE SUPREME COURT, AND THEN LAST WEEK THEY RULED AGAINST DFL GOVERNOR TIM WALZ.

DOES THIS PROVE WE REALLY DO HAVE MAYBE ONE OF THE AST NONPARTISAN HIGH COURTS IN THE COUNTRY?

>> I THINK THE MINNESOTA SUPREME COURT IS VERY CAREFUL TO APPEAR NOT POLITICAL.

THEY DO NOT WANT TO WEIGH IN ON POLITICAL QUESTIONS, IF THEY CAN AVOID IT.

THEY DON'T WANT TO LOOK LIKE THEY'RE FAVORING ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER.

AND, SO, IT'S ENTIRELY POSSIBLE THAT THEY WILL SPLIT THEIR DECISIONS, WITH REPUBLICANS ON ONE, DEMOCRATS ON THE OTHER.

>> Mary: IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE HOPING AND EXPECTING?

>> I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY, I THINK IT SHOULD BE 68 FOR A QUORUM.

>> Mary: RIGHT.

>> AND THEY CAN'T CONDUCT BUSINESS AT 67.

I THINK THAT IS THE STANDARD.

BUT I THINK THE COURT CAN WEIGH IN AND, I THINK EITHER WAY, WHATEVER DECISION THE COURT MAKES, THEY ARE STILL KICKING THE DECISION BACK TO HOUSE REPUBLICANS AND HOUSE DEMOCRATS TO NEGOTIATE A WAY FORWARD THIS SESSION.

BECAUSE IN THE END, YOU STILL HAVE TO GET TO 68 VOTES TO PASS A BUDGET, AND THE ONLY WAY OUT OF THIS SITUATION IS TO GET THROUGH IT AND THIS IS JUST DELAYING, I THINK, THE TIME IT TAKES TO GET THIS JOB DONE.

>> Mary: ONE MORE COURT QUESTION BECAUSE IT'S INTERESTING TO POINT OUT, THERE IS A FORMER DFL HOUSE SPEAKER ON THE COURT.

DO YOU THINK HE SHOULD RECUSE HIMSELF OR DOES HE BRING SPECIAL EXPERTISE?

>> WELL, HE HASN'T BEEN INVOLVED, HE'S BEEN FAR ENOUGH REMOVED FROM THE LEGISLATURE THAT I DON'T THINK HE WOULD KNEES O RECUSE HIMSELF.

NEED TO REDUCE HIMSELF.

I'M SURE HIS VOICE ON THE PRACTICES OF THE HOUSE WILL BE INFLUENTIAL ON THE COURT.

BUT WHETHER THE COURT THINKS THE HOUSE'S OWN PRACTICE IS DETERMINATIVE ON THE CONSTITUTIONAL QUESTION, THAT'S, I THINK, A DIFFERENT MATTER.

>> Mary: YOU SOUND PRETTY UP TO SPEED ON ALL OF THIS.

ARE YOU TALKING TO LEADERS?

ARE YOU ADVISING AT ALL?

>> IT'S BEEN OME TIME SINCE I'VE TALKED TO ANYBODY ABOUT ANY OF THIS, YEAH.

>> Mary: LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING NOW?

>> WELL, I'M PRACTICING LAW.

>> Mary: YES.

>> AND I TARTED A THC BEVERAGE COMPANY A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO.

AND I'LL BE HEADING OUT TO NEW JERSEY NEXT WEEK TO LAUNCH SALES OF OUR PRODUCT OUT THERE.

AND, SO, THIS KIND OF MARKET THAT KICKED OFF IN MINNESOTA IS NOW SPREADING ACROSS A LOT OF STATES.

>> Mary: DO YOU WANT TO SEE LEGISLATION, DOES CANNABIS, DOES THC, DOES THERE NEED TO BE SOME CLARIFYING LANGUAGE COMING FROM THIS LEGISLATURE?

>> THERE'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE CLARIFYING LANGUAGE.

EVERY YEAR THEY'LL PASS SOME KIND OF CLARIFYING BILL.

IT'S THE SAME WITH THE LIQUOR INDUSTRY OR ANY REGULATED INDUSTRY, THERE'S ALWAYS UPDATES THAT NEED TO BE MADE.

>> Mary: ARE YOU SURPRISED HOW LONG IT'S TAKEN TO FIND A NEW HEAD FOR THE OFFICE OF CANNABIS MANAGEMENT?

KIND OF THE STUMBLES AND THE TIME FRAME ON THIS.

>> I THINK THE CHALLENGE IS THAT, YOU KNOW, DESPITE WHAT PEOPLE MIGHT THINK, STATE GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS IN MINNESOTA ARE NOT PAID VERY MUCH COMPARED TO THEIR PEERS IN OTHER STATES.

SO IT MIGHT BE HARD TO BRING SOMEBODY IN.

AND I ALSO THINK CANNABIS IS KIND OF COMMONPLACE NOW.

IT'S NOT THE EXCITING PLACE TO GO MAKE YOUR CAREER, LIKE IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN FIVE, TEN YEARS AGO.

>> Mary: THANK YOU SO MUCH, FORMER LEADER WINKLER.

APPRECIATE IT.

WELL, THIS WEEK'S FIRST-TERM LAWMAKER COMES TO US FROM BEMIDJI.

HE'S A MARINE WHO SERVED IN LAW ENFORCEMENT AND WANTS TO REPRESENT NOT JUST HIS DISTRICT, BUT OFFICERS ACROSS MINNESOTA.

WHY DID YOU WANT TO RUN?

>> ACTUALLY TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN MY COMMUNITY.

BEING IN LAW ENFORCEMENT, HAVING LAW ENFORCEMENT BACKGROUND, I WAS KIND OF TIRED OF THE WAR MONGERING AND THE AGGRESSION THAT WAS GOING ON TOWARDS LAW ENFORCEMENT.

>> Mary: DO YOU SEE AN EVOLUTION ON THIS, TOO?

IN POLITICS, IT'S KIND OF SWINGING ALL OVER THE PLACE, TOO, OKAY, LAW ENFORCEMENT IS VILIFIED, OKAY, NOW WE NEED LAW ENFORCEMENT, MAYBE THEY'RE NOT SO BAD.

ARE YOU SEEING KIND OF THIS BACK AND FORTH AND KIND OF PENDULUM SWING ON THE ISSUE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT?

>> IT LWAYS SEEMS TO GO WITH THE FLOW OF THE PEOPLE.

AND, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU LIVE AND HOW MUCH OF A RELATIONSHIP YOU HAVE WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT.

MY SEAT IS BEMIDJI.

YOU KNOW, SO, WE HAVE A VERY STRONG LIKE FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT THERE.

BUT THEN YOU GO TO PARTICULAR PLACES INSIDE THE CITY, AND YOU MAY NOT REALLY CARE FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT AS MUCH.

BUT WE REALLY NEED TO GET AWAY FROM IS DO NOT DICTATE THE WHOLE STATE OF MINNESOTA LAW ENFORCEMENT BY PARTICULAR ACT BY ONE PERSON.

IT'S REALLY EASY TO PAINT US WITH A BROAD BRUSH, BUT WHAT I WANT YOUR VIEWERS TO KNOW IS WHAT I WANT THEM TO FOCUS ON IS ACTUALLY FOCUS ON THE PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL, MAYBE THAT AGENCY THAT MIGHT BE HAVING THE PROBLEM, AND NOT FOCUS ON THE WHOLE STATE OF MINNESOTA AS A WHOLE.

BECAUSE WE HAVE SOME VERY VERY VERY GOOD OFFICERS OUT THERE THAT WE NEED TO ENCOURAGE, GET OUT THERE, KEEP DOING THE GOOD WORK THAT THEY HAVE, SUPPORT THOSE GUYS.

>> Mary: SO YOU HAD TO DEAL WITH SOME HEADLINES AND SOME BACKLASH FOR BEING IN LAW ENFORCEMENT, TOO.

>> YUP.

>> Mary: THERE WAS SOME TOUGH STUFF.

THE HEADLINE, A JUDGE SAYING YOU DIDN'T TELL THE TRUTH IN COURT.

WHAT'S THE TRUTH?

>> THE TRUTH IS THAT I NEVER LIED.

I HAD LEGAL GUIDANCE DURING THAT WHOLE TIME.

I JUST ACTUALLY GOT A LETTER BACK FROM THE JUDICIARY BOARD, BECAUSE I FILED A COMPLAINT ON A PARTICULAR JUDGE, SO I GOT A RULING BACK THAT WAS IN MY FAVOR SHOWING THAT THEY FOUND MISCONDUCT IN HIS BEHAVIOR.

IN THE CAMPAIGN, IT REALLY BOTHERED ME A LOT BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE JUDGING ME BY THAT.

WE AS LEGISLATORS NEED TO COME OUT THERE AND SUPPORT OUR LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT.

WE NEED TO COME OUT AND BE A LITTLE MORE VOCAL THAN WHAT WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW.

WE HAVE SOME VERY GOOD LEGISLATORS RIGHT NOW THAT HAVE BEEN VERY VOCAL, BUT WE NEED TO COME TOGETHER AS A WHOLE, BECAUSE WITHOUT LAW ENFORCEMENT, WE DON'T HAVE STABILITY IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

>> Mary: WHAT ABOUT THE POLITICAL COMPETITIVENESS, BECAUSE THIS WASN'T COMPLETELY AN EASY CAKE WALK FOR YOU, WAS IT?

TELL US, HOW CLOSE WAS YOUR RACE?

>> IT WAS RELATIVELY CLOSE, YOU KNOW, I ONLY WON BY, INCH, 850 VOTES, SOMEWHERE AROUND THERE.

IT WAS A LITTLE BIT OF A TIGHT RACE, IT WAS ONLY BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I BELIEVE THE JUDGE'S RULING HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THAT, YOU KNOW, KIND OF PUTS A BAD TASTE IN YOUR MOUTH.

>> Mary: WHAT ABOUT OUR PERCEPTION THAT RURAL AREAS ARE GETTING MORE REPUBLICAN?

DO YOU FEEL THAT AND SEE THAT IN YOUR COMMUNITY?

>> YES AND NO.

IT'S LITTLE POCKETS.

YOU KNOW, SO WE HAVE A UNIVERSITY INSIDE OUR SEAT THERE, TOO, CONCORDIA LANGUAGE VILLAGE IS ALSO THERE, BEMIDJI STATE UNIVERSITY'S ALSO THERE, WHICH HAPPENS TO TEND TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE LIBERAL THAN, YOU KNOW, THAN CONSERVATIVE.

IN THE CITY, IT'S PRETTY DIVIDED ONCE YOU GET TO THE RURAL, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHERE IT BECOMES PRETTY RED.

>> Mary: WHAT ABOUT ISSUES, WHAT CAME THROUGH THEN IN THAT KIND OF DIVIDED DISTRICT AS KEY ISSUES FROM BOTH SIDES?

>> PUBLIC SAFETY, DOGS EDUCATION.

YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE HUGE.

YOU KNOW, AND OBVIOUSLY TAXES WAS NUMBER ONE FOR EVERYBODY.

EVERYBODY'S, YOU KNOW, FEELING IT, EVERYBODY WAS WONDERING, WHAT CAN WE DO TO BE ABLE O BRING THOSE DOWN AND CHANGE THAT, HOW ARE WE GOING TO BE ABLE TO EFFECTIVELY MAKE SOME CHANGES IN LEGISLATION TO BE ABLE TO HELP.

>> Mary: MIDDLE GROUND IS SOMETHING THE HOUSE IS GOING TO HAVE TO FIND BECAUSE I DOUBT WHEN YOU WERE RUNNING, YOU REALLY THOUGHT, I'M GOING TO BE IN A TIE.

DID OU THINK THAT COULD HAPPEN?

>> I NEVER THOUGHT IT.

TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.

I CAME IN HOPING THAT WE WERE GOING TO ET THE MAJORITY.

NOW IT'S GOING TO FORCE US TO ACTUALLY WORK TOGETHER.

YOU KNOW, SO THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE ONE SIDE OF THE AISLE THAT'S GOING TO BE ABLE TO RAM EVERYTHING THROUGH, YOU KNOW, NOW IT'S GOING TO BE LIKE, OKAY, LET'S WORK ON THE CONSENSUS OF THIS, WHAT'S GOOD FOR THE PEOPLE AT THIS POINT IN TIME.

SO IT'S REALLY GOING TO FORCE US TO HAVE TO COME BACK, REALLY, REALLY HUMBLE OURSELVES, IN ORDER TO BE BLE TO REACH ACROSS THE AISLE AND SAY, OKAY, EY, I'M A REPUBLICAN, YOU'RE A DEMOCRAT, BUT WE HAVE THIS SAME COMMON GOAL, LET'S WORK ON THAT GOAL TO BETTER OUR COMMUNITY.

>> Mary: WHAT DOES YOUR EXPERIENCE IN THE MARINES TEACH YOU THAT YOU BRING HERE?

>> YOU KNOW, BEING A MARINE, WE ALWAYS HAVE TO ADAPT AND OVERCOME A SITUATION THAT WE HAVE.

THE MARINE CORPS TAUGHT ME ONE THING, YOUR BODY CAN WITHSTAND SO MUCH.

YOUR MIND QUITS BEFORE YOUR BODY WILL.

SO AS LONG AS YOU KEEP YOUR MIND GOING, YOUR BODY WILL FOLLOW.

SO WE GOT TO KEEP THAT GOOD OPEN MIND AND GOOD HEALTHY MINDSET AS WELL.

>> Mary: WHEN YOU OOK BACK AT SESSION, IN LIGHT OF THAT, HOW DO YOU THINK YOU WILL JUDGE SUCCESS?

>> MY POINT OF VIEW, YOU KNOW, GET THAT BUDGET UNDER CONTROL.

REALLY WORK ON TAXES AND MAKING SURE THAT OUR PEOPLE CAN LIVE HERE, YOU KNOW, WE SEEM TO BE LOSING MORE PEOPLE THAN WE ARE GAINING PEOPLE.

SO WE NEED TO BE REAL CAUTIOUS ON THAT BECAUSE WHO'S PAYING THESE TAXES AND, YOU KNOW, ARE WE GOING TO TAX US TO DEATH HERE, YOU KNOW, IN A PLACE THAT I COME FROM, BELTRAMI COUNTY, 30% OF THE AND IS TAXABLE.

YOU KNOW, THAT'S A HUGE THING.

SO HOW MUCH MORE CAN WE TAKE?

YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH MORE CAN THE PEOPLE TAKE UP THERE?

YOU KNOW?

JUST TO BE ABLE TO SURVIVE.

>> Mary: CLOSE ACE AGAIN.

>> YEAH, VERY CLOSE.

>> Mary: HOW CLOSE?

>> IT CAME DOWN TO 280 VOTES.

I REALLY THINK IT CAME DOWN TO TALKING TO PEOPLE FACE TO FACE AND GETTING TO KNOW THEM AND THEN MEETING, THAT REALLY MADE THE DIFFERENCE T. COMES DOWN TO THE PERSONAL CONNECTIONS.

SO INSTEAD OF BASING IT ON THINGS AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SEEING ON TV THE MOST, THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SEEING BEING TALKED ABOUT ON SOCIAL MEDIA THE MOST, I WANTED TO MAKE SURE I MADE THAT PERSONAL CONNECTION AND THEY GET TO MEET ME, TALK TO ME, ASK ME QUESTIONS, THEY SEE THAT I'M A REASONABLE PERSON THAT CARES ABOUT PEOPLE AND JUST WANTS TO MAKE A POSITIVE DIFFERENCE.

GETTING TO HEAR DIRECTLY FROM THEM, WHAT THEY CARE ABOUT, AND BRINGING THAT TO THE CAPITOL, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY I WOULDN'T WANT TO DO SOMETHING THAT DIDN'T MATCH WITH MY VALUES, BUT THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS THAT OUR CONSTITUENTS CARE ABOUT THAT ALSO MATCH WITH MY VALUES.

>> Mary: AND NEXT WEEK, WE'LL BE BACK WITH SENATE LEADERS FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE, WHO ARE GETTING ALONG FAMOUSLY OVER IN THEIR POWER-SHARING AGREEMENT IN THE OTHER CHAMBER.

IF YOU MISSED PART OF TONIGHT'S SHOW OR WANT TO REWATCH ANY EPISODES FROM THE PAST, HEAD TO OUR WEBSITE, TPT.ORG/AATC.

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WHEN THE LEGISLATURE IS IN SESSION, YOU CAN FOLLOW HOUSE AND SENATE FLOOR ACTION, COMMITTEE HEARINGS AND MORE ON THE PBS STATION YOU ARE WATCHING RIGHT NOW.

MAKE SURE TO TUNE IN TO "ALMANAC" FRIDAY NIGHT.

MORE CONTEXT ON WHAT'S GOING ON HERE.

TWO FORMER HOUSE SPEAKERS.

THEY'LL E EXCELLENT, KURT DAUDT, MARGARET ANDERSON KELLIHER, I'LL TAKE A LOOK AT THE STATE SUPREME COURT HEARING, AND GOVERNOR WALZ INTRODUCING HIS BONDING BILL.

TUNE IN.

THANKS FOR WATCHING, GOOD NIGHT.

>> "ALMANAC AT THE CAPITOL" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY... MANITOBA HYDRO PROVIDING CLEAN, RENEWABLE ENERGY TO MINNESOTA UTILITIES FOR MORE THAN 50 YEARS.

MANITOBAHYDROPOWER.COM.

FLINT HILLS RESOURCES, A LEADING PRODUCER OF THE FUELS MINNESOTANS RELY ON EVERY DAY.

MINNESOTA LOTTERY, GENERATING OVER $4 BILLION FOR OUR STATE SINCE 1990.

GREAT RIVER ENERGY, PROVIDING WHOLESALE POWER TO 1.7 MILLION PEOPLE THROUGH ITS MEMBER OWNER COOPERATIVES AND CUSTOMERS.

THE SHAKOPEE MDEWAKANTON SIOUX COMMUNITY: A SOVEREIGN TRIBAL NATION IN SCOTT COUNTY.

MORE AT SHAKOPEEDAKOTA.ORG.

AND THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA.

HEALTHIER.

HERE, THERE AND EVERYWHERE.

>> "ALMANAC AT THE CAPITOL" IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.