>> "ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.

>> ERIC: PUBLIC SAFETY AT THE STATE CAPITOL.

WE'LL TALK WITH THE HEAD OF THE MINNESOTA NATIONAL GUARD.

WHAT'S THE POST-IMPEACHMENT FUTURE OF THE REPUBLCAN PARTY?

TIM PAWLENTY WILL SHARE HIS THOUGHTS.

THEN WE'LL PREVIEW THE UPCOMING DEREK CHAUVIN TRIAL.

PLUS MARY LAHAMMER RECAPS AN INTENSE WEEK AT THE STATE CAPITOL.

>> Mary: TENSIONS MOUNT IN MINNESOTA AND D.C., AS THE NATION PREPARES FOR A NEW PRESIDENT AND STATE LAWMAKERS TRY TO CONDUCT A LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

>> THERE HAS BEEN NOTHING LEFT UNDONE.

>> TO KEEP THE CAPITOL SAFE.

>> NO, I DON'T FEEL SAFE.

>> THAT'S COMING UP ON "ALMANAC."

♪♪ >> "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY· GREAT RIVER ENERGY: PROVIDING ELECTRICITY AND RELATED SERVICES TO 28 CO-OPS IN MINNESOTA.

A TOUCHSTONE ENERGY COOPERATIVE.

DELTA DENTAL OF MINNESOTA FOUNDATION: MAKING DENTAL CARE POSSIBLE FOR MINNESOTANS IN NEED.

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MORE AT ENBRIDGE.COM/LINETHREEUS.

AND EDUCATION MINNESOTA: THE VOICE FOR PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

MORE AT EDUCATIONMINNESOTA.ORG.

♪♪ >> ERIC: WELCOME AGAIN TO "ALMANAC."

IT'S BEEN ANOTHER WEIGHTY WEEK OF NEWS.

WE'RE GOING TO GET RIGHT TO IT.

>> CATHY: THE INVASION OF THE NATIONAL CAPITOL LAST WEEK AND REPORTS OF POSSIBLE FURTHER VIOLENCE THERE AND AT STATE CAPITOLS HAS LED TO A MASSIVE DEPLOYMENT OF THE NATIONAL GUARD IN THE PAST TEN DAYS.

HERE TO TALK ABOUT THAT IS THE HEAD OF THE MINNESOTA NATIONAL GUARD.

MAJOR GENERAL SHAWN MANKE ASSUMED LEADERSHIP OF THE GUARD LAST AUGUST.

SIR, WELCOME TO "ALMANAC."

>> HEY, CATHY, ERIC, GOOD TO BE HERE.

GOOD EVENING.

>> Cathy: GOOD EVENING.

YOU KNOW, THE FBI THIS MORNING, AS YOU KNOW, SAYS THERE'S NO CREDIBLE THREAT TO THE MINNESOTA CAPITOL.

SO I'M CURIOUS, DOES THAT CHANGE YOUR MISSION AT THE CAPITOL THIS WEEKEND?

>> NO.

YOU KNOW, WE ARE GOING TO BE THERE SUPPORTING THE MINNESOTA STATE PATROL, THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY, AS WELL AS WE'RE TIED IN WITH THE ST. PAUL POLICE DEPARTMENT, IN CASE WE'RE NEEDED.

YOU KNOW, WE ARE -- WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO RAMP UP AND RAMP DOWN, BUT WE ARE THERE, WE'LL START TOMORROW MORNING ON MISSION, AND WE WILL WORK AS LONG AS WE'RE NEEDED IN THAT ROLE.

>> Cathy: HOW MANY SOLDIERS HAVE YOU DEPLOYED TO WASHINGTON, D.C., AND WHAT IS THAT MISSION?

>> WELL, WE'VE SENT A FEW SOLDIERS, THE ADVANCE PARTY LEFT TODAY, BUT MOST OF OUR SOLDIERS WON'T BE FLOWING THERE UNTIL TOMORROW.

BUT WE'RE GOING TO PUSH A LITTLE OVER 800 SOLDIERS AND AIRMEN TO THE CAPITOL REGION.

MUCH OF WHAT THEY WILL BE DOING, SIMILAR STUFF THAT THEY HAVE DONE HERE.

TRAFFIC CONTROL POINTS, SECURITY MISSIONS TO SUPPORT THE INAUGURATION OF THE 59th PRESIDENT.

>> Eric: GENERAL, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT SORT OF THE TONE IT SETS, THE SYMBOLISM OF HAVING, YOU KNOW, ARMED NATIONAL GUARD PERSONNEL AROUND THE STATE CAPITOL?

AS YOU LOOK AT IT AS A COMMANDER'S ROLE, HOW DO YOU INTERPRET THAT?

>> WELL, I THINK WE ALL WISH THAT WE WEREN'T THERE.

AT LEAST THIS MANY OF US THERE.

BUT THE FACT IS, THERE WAS AN ATTACK ON OUR NATION'S CAPITOL, AND THREATENING TO OUR DEMOCRACY.

WE ALL RAISE OUR HAND TO SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES AGAINST ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC.

AND THIS WAS AN ATTACK.

AND THE CIVILIAN LEADERSHIP FEELS THAT THIS IS WHAT IS NEEDED, AND WE WILL DO AS DIRECTED, FOLLOWING LAWFUL ORDERS TO HOPEFULLY PROTECT CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE AND KEEP THE CAPITOL SAFE DURING THIS INAUGURATION.

>> Eric: VERY INTERESTING STORY IN THE "STAR TRIBUNE" THIS MORNING, NATIONAL GUARD SPECIALIST, 30-YEAR-OLD ATTORNEY, IN CIVILIAN LIFE IS ON FACEBOOK BASICALLY SAYING THAT THERE'S A RIGHT WING EXTREMIST MOVEMENT IN THE NATIONAL GUARD AND IT'S A PROBLEM.

WHAT SAY YOU?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, WE'RE CITIZEN SOLDIERS.

SO WE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE CITIZENS FIRST AND SOLDIERS SECOND.

AND IF WE DO HAVE ISSUES LIKE THAT IN THE MINNESOTA NATIONAL GUARD, WE WANT TO KNOW ABOUT 'EM.

AND WE WILL DEAL WITH THEM APPROPRIATELY.

WE'RE A CROSS-SECTION OF THE POPULATION, SO WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO RUN THE GAMUT IN THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM, BUT AS AN ORGANIZATION, YOU KNOW, WE LIKE TO STAY APOLITICAL WHEN WE'RE REPRESENTING THE ORGANIZATION, BUT AS A CIVILIAN, PEOPLE SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE THE FREEDOM TO DO WHAT THEY WANT, BUT, YOU KNOW, IF THERE ARE ISSUES THAT COMPROMISE OUR OATH AND WHAT OUR VALUES, WE'LL LOOK AT THEM AND DEAL WITH THEM EFFECTIVELY.

>> Cathy: GENERAL, YOU KNOW, EXPERTS IN HOME-GROWN TERRORISM HAVE WARNED FOR YEARS OF EFFORTS BY THE -- BY FAR RIGHT MILITANTS TO RADICALIZE AND RECRUIT PEOPLE WITH MILITARY BACKGROUND DOES.

THAT WORRY YOU?

>> YOU KNOW, YEAH, THAT WOULD WORRY ME.

BUT I DON'T KNOW IF WE SEE THAT IN OUR FORMATION FROM THE SOLDIERS THAT WE INTERACT WITH.

YOU KNOW, PART OF BEING A SOLDIER IS REALLY GETTING TO KNOW YOUR SOLDIERS.

SO WE TRY TO HAVE OUR SQUAD LEADERS GET TO KNOW OUR TEAM LEADERS AND OUR TEAM LEADERS GET TO KNOW OUR SOLDIERS.

AND THEN IF WE ARE HAVING SOLDIERS THAT ARE FEELING THIS WAY, ARE EXTREMISM, WE DON'T WANT THAT IN OUR FORMATION, AND HOPEFULLY WE CAN GET THEM HELP SO THAT THEY DON'T HAVE THOSE FEELINGS.

BUT IF WE HAVE EXTREMISTS IN OUR ORGANIZATION, WE DON'T WANT THAT, AND WE NEED TO DEAL WITH THAT EFFECTIVELY.

>> Eric: HOW LONG DO YOU EXPECT THESE DEPLOYMENTS, BOTH IN St. PAUL AND WASHINGTON, D.C., TO LAST?

>> WELL, I THINK OUR NATION NEEDS TO HEAL.

AND I DON'T KNOW, I THINK OUR SOLDIERS IN WASHINGTON, D.C., WILL OPTIMISTICALLY BE BACK SHORTLY AFTER THE INAUGURATION.

AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY, I THINK WITH SOME OF THE EVENTS COMING ON IN MINNESOTA DURING THE NEXT YEAR, THE GUARD WILL BE NEEDED.

YOU KNOW, WE'RE A PLANNING ORGANIZATION.

SO IF WE DIDN'T PLAN FOR THE GEORGE -- THE OFFICER -- THE FORMER MINNEAPOLIS POLICE OFFICERS' TRIALS IN REGARDS TO THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD, WE WOULDN'T BE DOING OUR JOB.

SO WE WILL PLAN FOR THAT.

AND WE WILL BE READY, IF NEEDED, AND ASKED TO DO MISSIONS BY THE GOVERNOR.

>> Cathy: ALL RIGHT.

GENERAL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> Eric: THANKS, GENERAL.

APPRECIATE IT.

HAVE A SAFE WEEKEND, THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

♪♪ >> ERIC: ON WEDNESDAY, FOR THE SECOND TIME IN A YEAR, THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES VOTED TO IMPEACH DONALD TRUMP.

TEN REPUBLICANS JOINED WITH DEMOCRATS ON THE SINGLE ARTICLE OF IMPEACHMENT CHARGING THE PRESIDENT WITH "INCITEMENT OF INSURRECTION."

THE MINNESOTA DELEGATION VOTE WAS ALONG PARTY LINES.

HERE TO TALK ABOUT IT, ANGIE CRAIG, THE DEMOCRAT WHO REPRESENTS THE SECOND DISTRICT, ENCOMPASSING THE SOUTHERN TWIN CITIES SUBURBS AND SOUTHEASTERN PART OF THE STATE.

WE SENT INVITATIONS TO THE FOUR REPUBLICAN MINNESOTA MEMBERS OF CONGRESS TO JOIN US TONIGHT AS WELL.

ALL DECLINED.

BUT WE'RE HAPPY THAT ANGIE CRAIG IS HERE.

REPRESENTATIVE, AS THE DAYS PASS, THE VIDEO GETS RELEASED, IT LOOKS LIKE IT WAS MORE DANGEROUS THAN WE THOUGHT ON THE DAY OF.

BUT WHAT DO YOU SEE AS NEXT STEPS, CAPITOL SECURITY, THE BIDEN AGENDA, A TRIAL IN THE SENATE, MAYBE?

WHERE ARE WE HEADED HERE?

>> ERIC, IT'S SO GOOD TO BE BACK WITH YOU.

YOU KNOW, I HAVE TO TELL YOU, I WAS IN THE HOUSE GALLERY JUST BEFORE IT WAS CRIMINALS INVADED THIS CAPITOL, AND, YOU KNOW, IT DIDN'T FEEL -- DIDN'T FEEL SAFE THEN.

IT WAS PRETTY TRAUMATIC, I THINK, FOR MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHO EXPERIENCED THAT.

AND WE'RE ONLY JUST COMING TO TERMS WITH HOW MANY OF THOSE CAPITOL POLICE OFFICERS AND THE DISTRICT OFFICERS REALLY BATTLED HUNDREDS OF CRIMINALS TRYING TO GET INTO THE NATION'S CAPITOL.

>> Cathy: I'M CURIOUS, DO YOU THINK THAT THIS WAS A BIT OF AN INSIDE JOB?

THERE IS THAT THOUGHT THAT SOME OF THESE INDIVIDUALS HAD FOLKS PLANTED ON THE INSIDE.

>> WELL, CATHY, YOU KNOW, WHAT I WANT TO SAY, IT WAS AN INSIDE JOB FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF, YOU KNOW, THESE INDIVIDUALS, THEY TRULY BELIEVE THAT AN ELECTION WAS STOLEN, IT WAS AN INSIDE JOB FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES , HE LIED TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, AND MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES IN THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES WERE COMPLICIT IN THE BIG LIE.

IF NOT FOR DONALD TRUMP, IF NOT FOR LYING TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, THAT WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED A WEEK AGO WEDNESDAY.

SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE SECURITY FACTS WILL COME OUT.

I KNOW THERE'S GOING TO BE A VERY STRONG INVESTIGATION INTO WHAT HAPPENED AND THERE'S SOME VERY TROUBLING REPORTS THAT ARE OUT WITH RESPECT TO TOURS THAT WERE GIVEN THE DAY BEFORE, BUT I'M GOING TO LET THAT PROCESS PLAY OUT BEFORE I SPECULATE ON WHAT HAPPENED.

>> Cathy: I KNOW YOU FLEW BACK TO THE DISTRICT ON A PLANE THAT HAD SOME TRUMP SUPPORTERS ON IT.

WHAT WAS THAT LIKE?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, IT REALLY JUST VALIDATED MY THOUGHT THAT, YOU KNOW, I SAT ON A PLANE COMING BACK FROM D.C. FOR TWO HOURS AND FOUR MINUTES.

AND I WAS THERE WITH OTHER ELECTED OFFICIALS IN THE DELEGATION, AND THESE INDIVIDUALS HAD BEEN AT THE CAPITOL, AT LEAST ONE, I OBSERVED, TALKING ABOUT BEING INSIDE THE CAPITOL.

PART OF THE INSURRECTION.

AND, YOU KNOW, THE TRUTH IS, THEY JUST -- THEY BELIEVE THE LIE.

THEY BELIEVE THAT THIS PRESIDENT ACTUALLY GOT MORE VOTES THAN JOE BIDEN.

AND, SO, YOU KNOW, I JUST THINK THAT BEFORE WE CAN HEAL AS A NATION, WE NEED TO UNITE AROUND THE TRUTH AND, SO, THAT'S WHAT I WOULD ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO DO.

WE CAN'T HEAL AS A NATION UNTIL THE BASE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY COMES TO TERMS WITH YOU LOST THE ELECTION.

>> Eric: IN 1967, CONGRESSWOMAN, MARTIN LUTHER KING SAID THAT A RIOT IS THE VOICE OF THE UNHEARD.

WE'VE HAD RIOTS ACROSS THE POLITICAL AND SOCIAL SPECTRUM THE LAST YEAR.

HOW DO WE GET A TRUCE HERE?

HOW DO WE CALM THINGS DOWN?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU GET A TRUCE WITH VIOLENT CRIMINALS WHO ARE INVADING THE NATION'S CAPITOL.

I THINK WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IS UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS UPON EVERY SINGLE ELECTED OFFICIAL IN THIS NATION TO TELL THE TRUTH.

AND, SO, I THINK WE START WITH THE TRUTH, ERIC, AND WE GO FROM THERE.

BUT UNTIL WE REALLY UNDERSTAND AND START TELLING THE TRUTH AGAIN AS ELECTED OFFICIALS, I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO HAVE A SEGMENT OF PRESIDENT TRUMP'S BASE WHO IS -- THEY'RE JUST OUT OF CONTROL AT THE MOMENT.

>> Eric: YOU'RE ON TWO COMMITTEES THAT SHOULD BE BIPARTISAN, INFRASTRUCTURE AND SMALL BUSINESS.

AND I'M WONDERING WHAT'S POSSIBLE THERE?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE IRONY, ERIC, I ACTUALLY, BY THE END OF MY FIRST TERM, GOT FOUR BILLS SIGNED INTO LAW BY PRESIDENT TRUMP.

I'VE BEEN WILLING TO WORK ACROSS THE AISLE IN MY FIRST TERM IN CONGRESS, I'VE BEEN APPOINTED TO THE EXCLUSIVE ENERGY AND COMMERCE COMMITTEE, AS WELL AS REAPPOINTED TO THE AG COMMITTEE HERE IN THE 117th CONGRESS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I HAD A LOT OF COLLEAGUES WHO VOTED NOT TO CERTIFY THE RESULTS OF A FREE AND FAIR ELECTION.

AND, SO, I'M GOING KEEP WORKING WITH AS MANY FOLKS ACROSS THE AISLE AS I POSSIBLY CAN, BUT, MAN, IT'S REALLY HARD TO WORK WITH THE CAUCUS RIGHT NOW.

>> Cathy: HOW ARE YOU, I KNOW YOU SAY IT'S HARD TO WORK WITH SOME OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS, WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO DO PERSONALLY IN ORDER TO GET THINGS DONE, TO TRY TO, ON YOUR OWN, TO TRY TO EFFORT SOME HEALING?

>> WELL, I CONTINUE TO BUILD RELATIONSHIPS WITH INDIVIDUALS THAT I SHARE VALUES WITH.

AND, SO, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, CONGRESSMAN PETE STAUBER AND I, WE HAVE WORKED TOGETHER ON A NUMBER OF BILLS OVER MY FIRST COUPLE OF YEARS IN CONGRESS.

THERE ARE REPUBLICANS ACROSS THE AISLE THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY, LIKE DUSTY JOHNSON, FROM SOUTH DAKOTA, THAT I HAVE WORKED CLOSELY WITH AND RODNEY DAVIS OF ILLINOIS, AND I'M GOING TO CONTINUE TO BUILD THOSE RELATIONSHIPS.

I'M GOING TO CONTINUE TO ENCOURAGE THOSE REPUBLICANS TO SPEAK OUT.

A NUMBER HAVE, AS YOU MENTION, TEN ACTUALLY VOTED IN FAVOR OF THE IMPEACHMENT, INCLUDING THE THIRD-RANKING REPUBLICAN IN THE CAUCUS, LIZ CHENEY.

SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE JUST HAVE TO CONTINUE TO ENCOURAGE AND SUPPORT PEOPLE WHO ARE WILLING TO TELL THE TRUTH EVEN WHEN IT'S HARD.

>> Eric: A LOT OF SPENDING IN THE BIDEN AGENDA RELEASED THIS WEEK.

IS IT DEFICITS FOREVER OR WILL THERE BE TAX INCREASES?

WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN?

>> OH, ERIC, YOU KNOW, WE'RE RIGHT ON TIME BECAUSE REPUBLICANS, FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS, HAVE PROMOTED TRICKLE-DOWN ECONOMICS AND THE MINUTE A DEMOCRAT TAKES OFFICE AND HAS TO CLEAN UP A MESS IN THE COUNTRY, LIKE COVID-19, WE START TALKING ABOUT DEFICITS AND SPENDING.

SO YOU KNOW WHAT, ERIC?

RIGHT NOW, WHAT I'M TOLD BY ECONOMISTS IT'S NOT THE TIME TO HAVE THE CONVERSATION ABOUT AUSTERITY.

WE'VE GOT TO GET THIS ECONOMY RUNNING AGAIN.

WE'VE GOT TO GET OUR KIDS BACK IN SCHOOL FULL TIME.

WE'VE GOT TO GET VACCINES DISTRIBUTED AND IN THE ARMS OF MINNESOTANS ACROSS THIS STATE.

SO WE'RE GOING TO DO WHAT IS NECESSARY TO GET THIS COUNTRY BACK ON TRACK.

A MILLION AMERICANS JUST LAST WEEK FILED FOR UNEMPLOYMENT.

AND WE NEED TO BE WILLING TO SAY RIGHT NOW, RIGHT NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO TALK ABOUT AUSTERITY.

RIGHT NOW IS THE TIME TO GET THIS VACCINE IN ARMS SO THAT WE CAN TRULY GET OUR ECONOMY BACK UP AND RUNNING AGAIN.

THAT'S HOW WE'RE GOING TO SOLVE THE COVID-19 CRISIS.

>> Eric: THANKS FOR YOUR TIME, CONGRESSWOMAN.

HAVE A GREAT 2021.

THANKS.

>> Cathy: THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

♪♪ >> EXERCISING THE RIGHT TO VOTE IS VERY IMPORTANT.

AND CERTAINLY WE NEED TO ENCOURAGE TURNOUT AND PARTICIPATION, AND SECRETARY GROWE HAS DONE A VERY NICE JOB IN PROMOTING THAT IN MINNESOTA.

BUT WE ALSO NEED TO PROTECT THE SANCTITY OF THE PROCESS IN TERMS OF THE POTENTIAL FOR FRAUD AND ABUSE, THE CONFIDENTIALITY OF THE PROCESS.

COST, THERE'S A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION ABOUT COST.

AND THE OPPORTUNITY TO CHANGE YOUR MIND.

>> CATHY: POLLS SHOW THAT MOST REPUBLICANS IN AMERICA STILL SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT.

BUT THE LAST REPUBLICAN TO WIN STATEWIDE ELECTION IN MINNESOTA IS NOT AMONG THEM.

TIM PAWLENTY PENNED AN OP-ED THIS WEEK LAYING OUT CHANGES HE THINKS REPUBLICANS NEED TO MAKE IN THE WAKE OF THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY.

WE'RE PLEASED THAT THE FORMER GOVERNOR IS WITH US.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

>> GOOD TO BE WITH YOU, CATHY AND ERIC, AS WELL.

>> Cathy: SO DON, JR., SAID RECENTLY, THIS IS NOT THEIR GOP ANYMORE, THIS IS TRUMP'S PARTY.

WHAT'S THE RESULT OF THIS INTRAPARTY BATTLE, GOVERNOR?

>> WELL, THE RESULT SO FAR IS THAT THE REPUBLICANS LOST THE WHITE HOUSE, LOST THE SENATE, LOST THE HOUSE, AND IF YOU FAST FORWARD A LITTLE BIT TO THE CHANGING DEMOGRAPHICS OF THIS COUNTRY, IT DOESN'T LOOK GOOD FOR MY PARTY GOING FORWARD.

SO CHANGE IS HARD.

IT'S PARTICULARLY HARD FOR CONSERVATIVES BECAUSE IT'S NOT OUR NATURE.

BUT CHANGE IS ESSENTIAL AND IT CAN BE REALLY HELPFUL.

AND I THINK WE'RE AT THE POINT THAT NECESSITY, BECAUSE OF THIS LOSS, AND I WOULD ADD, YOU KNOW, THE PRESIDENT'S BEHAVIOR, IS GOING TO REQUIRE SOME CHANGE GOING FORWARD.

AND I THINK OUR PARTY NEEDS THAT AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A GREAT, HEALTHY DEBATE AND THAT'S WHY I WROTE THIS OP ED THAT I THINK LED TO THIS INVITE TO BE ON YOUR SHOW TONIGHT.

>> Eric: YOU CALL FOR THE GOP TO EMBRACE MODERNISM, IS THAT THE WORD YOU USE?

AND YOUR FORMER COLLEAGUE IS A GOVERNOR, BOBBY GENERAL DAHL, DOWN IN LOUISIANA SAID WE NEED TO STOP BEING THE PARTY OF STUPID.

ARE YOU TWO SAYING ABOUT THE SAME THING?

[ Laughter ] >> I HAVEN'T HEARD THAT ONE BEFORE, ERIC.

BUT, WELL, LOOK, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS A COLLAGE OF A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS.

I THINK THE DEBATE NOW IS GOING TO BE, DO WE GRAB ONTO AN IMPROVED VERSION OF TRUMP POPULISM OR DO WE GRAB ONTO A UPDATED VERSION OF REAGAN CONSERVATISM, PEOPLE MIGHT SAY, WELL, WE NEED BETTER OUTREACH TO VARIOUS GROUPS OR THEY MIGHT SAY SOME CELEBRITY CANDIDATES WOULD HELP TO BRIDGE OF SOME THESE GAPS.

I WOULD SAY THAT WE NEED TO CERTAINLY HANG ONTO CONSERVATISM, HANG ONTO, YOU KNOW, A BETTER FORM OF POPULISM.

BUT WE ALSO NEED TO BE NOW A MODERN PARTY, WHICH IS WHY I CALLED FOR MODERNISM, AND THAT SIMPLY MEANS APPLYING CONSERVATIVE PRINCIPLES TO MODERN CHALLENGES, ISSUES, AND OPPORTUNITIES.

>> Cathy: THERE'S STILL THE QUESTION, THOUGH, OF THE PRESIDENT, GOVERNOR PAWLENTY.

DOES THE SENATE NEED TO CONVICT PRESIDENT TRUMP IN ORDER TO HELP THE PARTY?

>> WELL, HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR HIS ROLE IN THIS INSURRECTION.

AND THAT'S WHAT IT WAS, IT WAS AN ATTEMPT BY HIM AND OTHERS TO INCITE AN INSURRECTION.

THE PRESIDENT'S PERSONAL LAWYER, RUDY GIULIANI WAS BEFORE THAT CROWD SAYING WE NEED, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, TRIAL BY COMBAT.

THERE'S A LOT OF INVESTIGATION UNDERWAY ABOUT WHO KNEW WHAT, WHO DID WHAT, WHOM COORDINATED WITH WHOM.

AND I THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF INTERESTING INFORMATION COMING FORWARD OVER THE NEXT FEW WEEKS.

SO I THINK THERE'S PROBABLE CAUSE TO USE A LEGAL TERM, TO BELIEVE THAT INCITEMENT OF SIN E BUT NOW I THINK THE EVIDENCE WILL BE FULLY PRESENTED TO THE SENATE AND PEOPLE SHOULD BE OPEN TO HEARING AND MAKING AN HONEST JUDGMENT.

AND REPUBLICANS, I THINK, ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DO SOME SOUL SEARCHING AROUND IS THIS GOING TO BE THE PARTY OF TRUMP OR IS THIS GOING TO BE THE PARTY OF PRINCIPLE?

AND ONE OF THE PRINCIPLES THAT WE SHOULD ALL BE ABLE TO AGREE ON IS WE NEED LEADERS TO TELL THE TRUTH.

NOT ALL OF THEM ARE GOING TO DO IT ALL THE TIME.

BUT AT LEAST WE NEED LEADERS WHO ARE MOSTLY GOING TO TELL THE TRUTH MOST OF THE TIME.

AND WHEN YOU START YOUR PRESIDENCY BY SAYING IT WAS THE LARGEST CROWD EVER AT AN INAUGURAL, THERE WERE EARLY SIGNS WE MAY HAVE SOME PROBLEMS IN THIS REGARD.

AND THEY REFERRED TO THINGS LIKE, YOU KNOW, ALTERNATIVE FACTS.

AND IN THE CASE OF THE ELECTION, JUST QUICKLY, THERE WERE 50 OR SO LAWSUITS CHALLENGING THIS ELECTION AND THE ALLEGED IMPROPRIETIES, NO COURT IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, INCLUDING TRUMP JUDGES, SUBSTANTIATED THOSE CLAIMS.

AND NOTWITHSTANDING THAT, WE HAD A BUNCH OF PEOPLE SAYING, THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN, WE'RE GOING TO IGNORE THE RULE OF LAW AND WE'RE GOING TO VIOLENTLY ASSAULT THE CAPITOL.

>> Cathy: SO I THINK YOU WOULD BE PRETTY HAPPY IF THE PRESIDENT IS IMPEACHED.

>> I THINK HE DOES NEED TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

I DON'T THINK YOU CAN DO WHAT HE DID, WHICH IS TO HIT THE IGNITER BUTTON MORE THAN ONCE OR TWICE, AND NOT HAVE SOME SANCTION.

SO I DO THINK IT WOULD BE IN EVERYBODY'S BEST INTEREST TO LET THIS EVIDENCE BE FULLY DEVELOPED WITH ALL THIS INVESTIGATION UNDERWAY AND LET'S HAVE THE FULL HEARING.

AND I WOULD AT LEAST BE OPEN TO CONSIDERING IT.

>> Eric: HOW MUCH OF THIS IS AN ISSUE DIFFERENCE WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN CONSTITUENT AND I HOW MUCH IS IT JUST SORT OF THE CULT OF TRUMP?

I MEAN, YOU SAID HE WAS UNSOUND, UNINFORMED, UNHINGED AND UNFIT, AND YOU DID LIKE HIS POLICIES BUT YOU SAID THAT AFTER HIS VIDEO CAME OUT FROM ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT BUT THAT HURT YOU IN THE PRIMARY, DIDN'T IT, RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR IN 2018, IT WAS ABOUT TRUMP, IT WASN'T ABOUT SOME ISSUE THAT TIM PAWLENTY HAD VERSUS JOHNSON, THE ENDORSED CANDIDATE.

>> I LIKED MANY OF TRUMP'S ISSUE POSITIONS, TO GIVE YOU ONE EXAMPLE, CRACKING DOWN ON CHINA, GETTING TOUGHER WITH CHINA, IT WAS REALLY IMPORTANT.

AND HE GOT THE ECONOMY GOING FOR A WHILE -- AND MANY OTHER THINGS.

BUT I WROTE THE OP ED WITH THE SPIRIT OF THAT'S NOT ENOUGH ANYMORE.

THE POLICY POSITIONS, YOU THINK ABOUT THE CHANGING DEMOGRAPHICS OF OUR COUNTRY, I WENT INTO A NUMBER OF NEW OR DIFFERENT THINGS, POINT OF EMPHASIS, THE LEFT, IN MANY WAYS, HAS TRIED TO, IN MY OPINION, SUPPRESS FREE SPEECH IN THIS COUNTRY.

I THINK THE REPUBLICANS HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE THE PARTY OF FREE SPEECH AND FREE SPEECH IS ONE OF THE GRANDEST LIBERTIES WE HAVE.

AND, YOU KNOW, FREE SPEECH IS CORRELATED THROUGHOUT HISTORY WITH PROGRESS AND INNOVATION.

I THINK WE SHOULD BE THE PARTY OF, YOU KNOW, DEFEATING THE RISING BUT NAIVE CALL OF SOCIALISM IN THIS COUNTRY BY EXPANDING THE BENEFITS AND OPPORTUNITIES OF CAPITALISM TO EVERYBODY.

AND I DON'T THINK WE DO A VERY GOOD JOB OF THAT AND TIME DOESN'T ALLOW US HERE TO GO INTO THE DETAILS THERE BUT WE HAVE TO MAKE CAPITALISM MORE AVAILABLE IF WE'RE GOING TO DEFEAT THE RISING CALL FOR SOCIALISM.

I CALLED IN THIS OP ED FOR THE PARTY TO EMBRACE GAY RIGHTS AND GAY MARRIAGE.

IT'S A MATTER OF PERSONAL LIBERTY AND PERSONAL EQUALITY.

WE CAN DO THAT WITHOUT OFFENDING PEOPLE'S IMPORTANT RELIGIOUS LIBERTY RIGHTS.

WE NEED TO BE BETTER WITH THE ENVIRONMENT AND CONSERVATION.

WE SHOULD HAVE NEVER LOOSENED UP THE STANDARDS ON MERCURY EMISSIONS.

AND THE LIST GOES ON AND ON AND THE OP ED GOES THROUGH ALL OF THAT.

BUT THOSE ARE JUST SOME EXAMPLES OF HOW THE PARTY, IF WE'RE GOING TO BE THE PARTY OF LIBERTY, CAN BE FOR THAT BUT ALSO BE MORE MODERN.

AND I THINK THE DEMOCRATS ARE TRYING, OF COURSE, TO SUPPORT THE NOTION OF EQUALITY, THAT'S VERY VERY IMPORTANT.

OUR COUNTRY IS REALLY THE -- REALLY, THE FAULT LINE IS BETWEEN FINDING THE RIGHT BALANCE BETWEEN LIBERTY AND EQUALITY.

AND WE CAN DO BOTH.

BUT I THINK REPUBLICANS WANT TO BE THE PARTY OF LIBERTY, WE HAVE TO ALSO FIND WAYS TO INCLUDE MORE PEOPLE IN OUR PARTY AND IN THE BENEFITS OF OUR CAPITALIST SOCIETY.

>> Eric: YOU WERE ON TO THIS WHITE WORKING FOLKS CONSTITUENCY EARLY ON.

I MEAN, YOU HAD THE SAM'S CLUB REPUBLICANS AND YOU NEED THOSE FOLKS AS PART OF THE COALITION.

CAN THERE BE A BIG TENT IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY?

>> THERE HAS TO BE, ERIC.

YOU KNOW, I SAID 40 YEARS AGO I WAS A VOLUNTEER IN THE REAGAN REVOLUTION FOR COMMON-SENSE CONSERVATISM, WHEN I WAS THE STATE CHAIR OF THE COLLEGE REPUBLICANS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA 20 YEARS AGO, I CALLED FOR OUR PARTY TO BE MORE POPULIST, TO BE THE PARTY OF SAM'S CLUB, NOT JUST THE COUNTRY CLUB.

BUT MORE IS NEEDED NOW.

YOU CAN'T BE A NATIONAL GOVERNING MAJORITY PARTY WHEN YOU LOSE ALL THE VOTE OF THE YOUNG PEOPLE, YOU'RE WAY BEHIND WITH WOMEN, YOU'RE WAY BEHIND IN THE VOTE WITH MINORITY AND DIVERSE VOTERS.

YOU'RE LOSING THE SUBURBS.

YES, WE GAINED IN RURAL AREAS.

BUT LOSING YOUNG PEOPLE, DIVERSE VOTERS, AND WOMEN BY SUCH LARGE MARGINS, AND THE SUBURBS IS NOT A FORMULA FOR FUTURE SUCCESS.

WE GOT TO NOW ADD SOMETHING MORE.

THOSE OTHER EFFORTS WERE WORTHY, BUT NOW WE HAVE TO ADD TO BE A MORE MODERN PARTY TO MORE PEOPLE.

>> Cathy: SAY, GOVERNOR, EVIDENTLY, MIKE LUNDELL IS A FRONTRUNNER FOR THE GOP NOMINATION FOR GOVERNOR IN THE NEXT GO-ROUND HERE.

WHAT'S YOUR VIEW OF THAT?

AND ARE YOU AVAILABLE TO RUN?

>> I'VE SAID LONG AGO, BY THE WAY, WHEN I GOT DEFEATED IN THE 2018 PRIMARY, I SAID THIS IS NOW TRUMP'S PARTY, I DON'T FIT IN AND THAT'S STILL TRUE.

AS TO MIKE LUNDELL, I DON'T KNOW HIM.

I'VE SEEN SOME COMMENTS FROM HIM ABOUT THIS ELECTION AND CORROBORATING AND INFLAMING THE SITUATION IN TERMS OF THE ELECTION BEING STOLEN.

AND THAT'S QUITE CONCERNING.

SO I WOULD NEED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT HIM AND WHAT HE'S SAYING.

BUT THE STUFF I'VE HEARD FROM HIM SO FAR IS DEEPLY DEEPLY CONCERNING TO ME.

AND THEN BEYOND THAT, I THINK OUR PARTY, MY PARTY NEEDS TO BE A PARTY ABOUT THAT'S ABOUT ADDITION, NOT SUBTRACTION AND I THINK THIS IDEA THAT WE'RE GOING TO THROW PEOPLE OVERBOARD BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT SUFFICIENTLY THIS OR THAT IN OUR PARTY, I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT AT ALL.

>> Cathy: GOVERNOR, IT WAS A PLEASURE HAVING YOU ON.

>> Eric: GREAT TO SEE YOU.

HAPPY NEW YEAR.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

SAME TO YOU.

♪♪ >> MOST OF THE INTERVIEWS YOU SEE WITH EXPERTS AND PUNDITS ON TV NEWS THESE DAYS ARE BEAMED IN NOT FROM THE BROADCAST STUDIO BUT FROM THE PERSON'S LIVING ROOM.

THEY'LL HAVE A BOOKCASE TO REPRESENT THEIR KNOWLEDGE.

AND IN THESE DAYS OF HIGH-DEFINITION TELEVISION, I SUSPECT I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO CURATES THEIR BACKDROP.

LOOK BEHIND ME AND YOU WILL SEE A MONUMENT TO ASPIRATION.

GREAT LITERATURE, PROBABLY HALF OF WHICH I HAVEN'T READ.

FAMILY PHOTOS TO SHOW MY WARM AND FUZZY SIDE.

CAREFULLY CULTIVATED KNICKKNACKS THAT HUMBLE BRAG ABOUT MY GOOD TASTE AND SOPHISTICATION.

IT'S NOT A LIE, EXACTLY.

BUT THE REALITY IS A LITTLE MESSIER.

AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO FESS UP TO THIS.

FOR LOTS OF US, WE SMUSH TOGETHER OUR PRIVATE LIVES AND OUR PROFESSIONAL PERSONAS, ANYBODY THAT'S BEEN IN A ZOOM MEETING THAT'S ABOUT PHOTO BOMBED BY A TODDLER OR A PET CAN ATTEST TO THIS.

LET'S NOT TAKE THOSE FLASHES OF HUMANITY FOR GRANTED.

THEY ARE ONE OF THE FEW GIFTS OF THE PANDEMIC.

I HAVE A BUDDY WHO'S VIRTUAL RETIREMENT PARTY WAS PUNCTUATED BY A SURPRISE APPEARANCE BY HIS PARENTS IN CALIFORNIA.

THERE ARE ARDENT ACCORDIANISTS BUT NOT VERY WELL VERSED IN TECHNOLOGY.

I WILL ALLOW YOU TO IMAGINE THE CHAOS.

AND THEN I WILL INVITE YOU TO EMBRACE THE LESS THAN PERFECTNESS OF YOUR WORK LIFE.

OR YOUR HOME LIFE OR YOUR SOCIAL LIFE OR WHATEVER.

OUR PROBLEMS ARE REAL.

BUT IT IS UNMUDDLED IN PERFECTION AND THE HUMILITY THAT GOES WITH IT THAT WILL HELP SEE US THROUGH.

♪♪ >> ERIC: BEFORE THIS WEEK, THE PLAN WAS THAT ALL FOUR FORMER MINNEAPOLIS POLICE OFFICERS WOULD FACE TRIAL AT THE SAME TIME IN CONNECTION WITH THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD.

BUT THIS WEEK HENNEPIN COUNTY JUDGE PETER CAHILL RULED THAT DEREK CHAUVIN, THE FORMER OFFICER FACING THE MOST SERIOUS CHARGES, WILL BE TRIED FIRST AND THE OTHER THREE FORMER OFFICERS WILL STAND TRIAL IN AUGUST.

DEREK CHAUVIN'S TRIAL IS SET TO START ON MARCH 8, JUST SEVEN WEEKS AWAY.

WITH US TO TALK ABOUT THIS WEEK'S MOVES AND TO PREVIEW WHAT MAY HAPPEN IN THAT COURTROOM IS CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY NEKIMA LEVY-ARMSTRONG WITH THE GROUP WAYFINDER FOUNDATION.

GUY-URIEL CHARLES ALSO IS HERE.

HE'S THE CO-DIRECTOR OF THE DUKE LAW SCHOOL CENTER ON LAW, RACE AND POLITICS.

MISS LEVY-ARMSTRONG, WHAT DOES IT MEAN PRACTICALLY FOR THE WAY THIS IS GOING TO COME DOWN NOW WITH THE SEPARATED TRIALS?

>> WELL, THERE ARE A LOT OF OPINIONS OUT THERE IN TERMS OF WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN.

I THINK THAT THERE IS A GREAT DEAL OF RISK, DEPENDING ON WHAT HAPPENS IN DEREK CHAUVIN'S TRIAL FOR THE OTHER THREE OFFICERS TO POTENTIALLY BE ACQUITTED.

THAT IS A BIG PART OF MY CONCERN.

I THINK GIVEN THE FACT THAT WE ALL SAW THE DEVASTATING VIDEO OF GEORGE FLOYD BEING KILLED, A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK THAT IT'S A SLAM DUNK, THAT HE WILL BE PROSECUTED.

HOWEVER, IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA, WE HAVE YET TO SEE A WHITE OFFICER CONVICTED FOR MURDERING A BLACK PERSON.

SO IT IS NOT A SLAM DUNK.

IF FOR SOME REASON DEREK CHAUVIN WALKS, THE CHANCES ARE THAT THE OTHER THREE WILL AS WELL.

>> Cathy: WHAT DO YOU THINK, PROFESSOR, IN TERMS OF THE DIFFICULTY IN OBTAINING A GUILTY VERDICT WHEN IT COMES TO OFFICER CHAUVIN?

>> WELL, I MEAN, I THINK AS WE'VE JUST HEARD, THAT IT HAS HISTORICALLY BEEN EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO CONVICT WHITE POLICE OFFICERS.

NOW, THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS, THAT THESE FACTS ARE INCREASINGLY CHANGING, SO NOT ONLY ARE WE SEEING PROSECUTIONS, BUT WE ARE STARTING TO SEE JURIES RESPOND TO THESE QUESTIONS VERY DIFFERENTLY.

BUT I DON'T DISAGREE THAT IT IS A RISK OF BIFURCATING THE TWO TRIALS, THE DEFENDANTS, AND HAVING ONE GO FIRST AND THE THREE GO SECOND.