ANNOUNCER: TONIGHT ON SHOWCASE WITH BARBARA KELLAR PORTRAIT, LANDSCAPE AND FIGURATIVE PAINTER CARL SAMSON.

STAY TUNED, SHOWCASE STARTS RIGHT NOW.

[MUSIC] KELLAR: HI.

I'M BARBARA KELLAR.

WELCOME TO SHOWCASE.

AND I HAVE AS MY GUESTS TODAY CARL SAMSON ONE OF THE MOST FABULOUS PORTRAIT PAINTERS EVER.

AND HE LIVES HERE IN CINCINNATI BUT HE WORKS IN CINCINNATI BUT DOING PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD.

CARL.

SAMSON: WELL, IT'S BEEN A PLEASURE TO BE IN CINCINNATI AND IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE HERE TODAY.

KELLAR: YEAH.

HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN HERE?

SAMSON: SINCE 1986.

I MOVED HERE FROM THE WASHINGTON, D.C. AREA WHERE I HAD BEGUN MY CAREER JUST AFTER TEN YEARS OF TRAINING.

SO I ENDED UP COMING HERE AND VISITED SOME FRIENDS AND I FELL IN LOVE WITH CINCINNATI.

AND IT'S BEEN GREAT EVER SINCE.

KELLAR: WELL, IT WAS VERY INTERESTING TO HEAR YOUR NON-ACADEMIC CREDENTIALS.

TELL US ABOUT THAT.

SAMSON: WELL, AT THE AGE OF 14, I MET A PAINTER BY THE NAME OF ALLAN BANKS.

AND ALLEN AND I HAD A FOUR YEAR TRAINING SESSION TOGETHER THROUGHOUT HIGH SCHOOL.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HE EMPHASIZED AS I WAS APPROACHING THAT AGE WHERE I NEEDED TO DECIDE IT WAS I GOING TO GO TO A COLLEGE AN ART SCHOOL, A TYPICAL ART SCHOOL OR SOMETHING ELSE WAS THAT THERE WAS THIS OLD PAINTER IN BOSTON WHOSE NAME WAS, LAST NAME WAS GAMMELL R.H. IVES GAMMELL, AND HE WAS THE LAST LIVING LINK TO THE REALLY GREAT AMERICAN IMPRESSIONIST PAINTERS OF THE TURN OF THE CENTURY.

AND THAT IF I EVER WAS GOING TO BE -- KELLAR: LIKE SARGENT?

SAMSON: LIKE SARGENT, EXACTLY.

IN FACT, HE HAD BEEN TO THE OPERA WITH SARGENT.

SO, HE KNEW THEM.

HE KNEW THAT -- HE WORKED OR PRACTICED IN THAT WORLD, SO TO SPEAK.

AND ALLEN SAID, "YOU KNOW, IF YOU REALLY WANT TO LEARN TO BE A PAINTER LEARN FROM A PRACTICING PROFESSIONAL SOMEBODY WHO'S CONSIDERED A MASTER LIKE THEY WOULD DO IN THE RENAISSANCE YOU WOULD BE MAYBE ONE OF FOUR, OR FIVE STUDENTS."

AND SO THAT'S WHAT I ENDED UP DOING.

AND I ENDED UP STUDYING ANOTHER TWO YEARS AFTER MY YEAR WITH MR. GAMMELL WITH RICHARD LACK IN MINNEAPOLIS.

SO TEN YEARS OF TRAINING ALL TOGETHER IT WAS A VERY RIGOROUS, NOT UNLIKE DANCE OR CLASSICAL MUSICIAN.

IT'S VERY INTENSE, RIGOROUS TRAINING.

KELLAR: YEAH, I DON'T THINK MANY PEOPLE I CERTAINLY AM NOT, AWARE OF HOW YOU TEACH SOMEONE TO PAINT.

DO THEY GET YOU TO DO SOMETHING AND THEN THEY CRITIQUE IT, OR HOW DOES THAT WORK?

SAMSON: YES.

WELL, TYPICALLY THE WAY I WAS TRAINED WAS ONCE YOU'RE DONE WITH THAT VERY DISCIPLINED DRAWING FROM THE CAST, WHICH IS A STATUE ESSENTIALLY IT'S ALL WHITE AND IT'S VERY OLD SCHOOL.

BUT IT'S SO INCREDIBLY EFFECTIVE IN TERMS OF TEACHING THE YOUNG STUDENT HOW TO SEE SHAPES AND RECORD SHAPES AND VALUES ACCURATELY AND EDGE RELATIONSHIPS, ALL THOSE THINGS THAT THEN ALLOW YOU TO PAINT WHATEVER IT IS THAT YOU WANT TO PAINT.

SO EVENTUALLY, ONCE YOU GET THROUGH THAT THAT FIRST PERIOD, YOU GO ON TO PAINTING STILL LIFE AND THEN PORTRAIT HEADS.

AND THEN FROM THERE IT'S LARGE PORTRAITS AND MULTI FIGURE PIECES.

AND THE IDEA IS YOU SET UP AS A STUDENT YOU SET UP YOUR MODEL YOU HAVE THE MODEL ON THE MODEL STAND AND THEN THE MASTER TEACHER COMES IN ONCE A WEEK AND GIVES YOU A SOMETIMES VERY BRIEF CRITIQUE IF THAT'S ALL YOU NEED.

OTHER TIMES THE INSTRUCTOR WOULD GRAB YOUR BRUSHES AND ACTUALLY SHOW YOU ON YOUR OWN CANVAS WHAT IT IS THAT YOU'RE DOING WRONG.

AND THAT'S AMAZINGLY EFFECTIVE TRAINING.

A LOT OF PEOPLE TODAY, A LOT OF YOUNG ART STUDENTS ARE, LIKE, "YOU'RE NOT GOING TO TOUCH MY BRUSHES."

BUT YOU HAVE TO.

I JUST ALWAYS WAS GLAD TO HAND THEM OVER "SHOW ME HOW IT'S DONE AND SHOW ME RIGHT HERE WHILE I'M WATCHING."

AND THAT WAS JUST THE BEST TRAINING YOU COULD HAVE.

KELLAR: I KNOW IT'S DIFFERENT WITH PORTRAITS THAN WITH MODERN ART WHERE IT'S, YOU KNOW SLAPPING PAINT ON A CANVAS.

HOW DO YOU AVOID PAINTING LIKE THE TEACHER RATHER THAN YOURSELF?

SAMSON: AH, THIS IS A VERY GOOD QUESTION.

SO A GOOD TEACHER WILL DEVELOP THE SKILLS WITHIN THE STUDENT SUCH THAT THEY'RE NOT APING OR TRYING TO BE MINI ME COMPARED TO THE TEACHER.

THEY WANT THAT STUDENT TO DEVELOP HIS OR HER OWN VOICE.

AND WHAT THEY'RE ACTUALLY TRANSMITTING TO YOU IS THE GRAMMAR FROM WHICH YOU CAN MAKE YOUR OWN LANGUAGE.

AND THAT WAS HOW IT WAS TAUGHT TO ME.

THEY'RE NOT TEACHING ME TO BE AN ARTIST.

THEY'RE TEACHING ME TO LEARN THE SKILLS BY WHICH I CAN EVENTUALLY DEVELOP MY OWN VOICE.

KELLAR: I WAS TALKING, WE WERE TALKING THE OTHER DAY.

I HAD A DISCUSSION ABOUT HANDS.

SAMSON: YEAH.

KELLAR: AND HOW DIFFICULT HANDS ARE TO PAINT.

SAMSON: YES.

KELLAR: AND ACTUALLY THERE WAS A PAINTING AT THE TAFT MUSEUM THAT WAS DECLARED NOT AUTHENTIC BECAUSE OF THE HANDS.

I FORGET WHICH ONE IT WAS, BUT WHY ARE HANDS SO -- SAMSON: HANDS ARE INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT ONLY ON A PAR WITH THE MOUTH BECAUSE THE MOUTH IS SUCH A SUBTLE COMBINATION OF MUSCLES AND SO FORTH.

BUT THE HANDS HAVE BONES.

YOU HAVE TENDONS.

YOU HAVE FLESH.

AND THEN YOU HAVE ALL THOSE OTHER BONES WITHIN THE BODY OF THE HAND AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS HAVE TO BE FELT AND UNDERSTOOD BEFORE YOU CAN PAINT A SUCCESSFUL HAND.

A LOT OF HANDS GET RUBBERY OR THEY GET TOO BONY.

BUT STRIKING THAT RIGHT BALANCE BETWEEN THE FLESHY PART OF THE HAND AND THAT BONY AND TENDON PART IS A CHALLENGE.

KELLAR: WHEN YOU'RE DOING A PORTRAIT YOU DON'T VERY OFTEN HAVE TO DO HANDS, DO YOU?

AREN'T YOU JUST SORT OF WELL HEAD SHOT?

SAMSON: A FAIR NUMBER OF PEOPLE WANT THE HANDS IN THEM AS A WAY OF EXPRESSING CERTAIN PARTS OF THEIR CHARACTER OR THEIR PROFESSION.

FOR EXAMPLE, I DID THE HEAD OF THE RADIOLOGY DEPARTMENT AT UC.

ACTUALLY, HE WAS THE HEAD OF INTERNAL MEDICINE AND HE LIKED TO GIVE LECTURES IN FRONT OF A WHITEBOARD AND HE WOULD HOLD A PIECE OF CHALK IN HIS HAND OR A MARKER, AND HE WOULD GO LIKE THIS WITH THE OTHER ONE, AND THAT WAS HIM AND IT WAS NOBODY ELSE.

SO THAT WAS A CHANCE TO INJECT A LITTLE MORE OF THEIR CHARACTER ASPECT OF IT.

KELLAR: YEAH, OF WHO HE WAS.

WELL TALK ABOUT SOME OF YOUR SUBJECTS.

SAMSON: AH, WELL, I'VE HAD SO MANY OVER THE YEARS.

I'VE BEEN VERY FORTUNATE TO HAVE A GOOD CAREER HERE IN CINCINNATI.

AND ODDLY ENOUGH, WHEN I FIRST MOVED TO TOWN MOST OF MY INTEREST FROM COLLECTORS WAS FOR LANDSCAPE PAINTING BECAUSE I WAS ABSOLUTELY ENTHRALLED WITH A DOCTOR'S LANDSCAPE OR ROSE GARDEN OUT IN ANDERSON, ANDERSON FERRY AREA.

AND SO -- AND THAT FEEDS INTO THE WHOLE PORTRAIT PROFESSION IN A SENSE.

BUT AFTER I GOT THROUGH THAT PHASE WHERE I WAS DOING ALL THE LANDSCAPES AND GETTING MY FEET WET WITH THAT I WON THE NATIONAL THE BEST NATIONAL AWARD FOR PORTRAIT PAINTING IN 1993 GRAND PRIZE.

AND THEN AFTER THAT IT WAS A SERIES OF PORTRAITS.

AND THE FIRST, PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE WAS MRS. CORBETT, PAT CORBETT WHEN I FIRST STARTED YEARS AGO AND THEN IT WENT ON TO A WHOLE OTHER CAST OF CHARACTERS IN TERMS OF FOUNDATION HEADS.

AND THEN THERE WERE MEDICAL SCHOOL PORTRAITS AND LAW PORTRAITS.

KELLAR: IS THE ONE OF PAT IN MUSIC HALL?

SAMSON: IT'S IN MUSIC HALL, YEAH.

KELLAR: AND DID YOU DO THE ONE OF SCHIPPERS?

SAMSON: I DID NOT, NO.

NO, THAT PREDATED MY VISIT.

KELLAR: LAST WEEK I WAS LOOKING TO SEE IF I -- BUT DID YOU DO -- YOU DID CARMON, DIDN'T YOU?

SAMSON: I DID.

I DID CARMON DELEONE.

KELLAR: YEAH.

SAMSON: AND OF COURSE, MICHAEL AND PEG VALENTINE FOR THE NEW BALLET BUILDING.

KELLAR: FOR THE NEW BALLET BUILDING.

TELL US ABOUT THAT ONE.

SAMSON: THAT WAS A WONDERFUL EXPERIENCE.

ONE OF THE BEST PARTS OF THAT JOB IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT THAT, AS A PORTRAIT PAINTER YOU INVITE SOMEBODY INTO YOUR STUDIO.

YOU'VE GOT THIS BEAUTIFUL, SOFT NORTH LIGHT JUST KIND OF CARESSING EVERY FEATURE EVERY BIT OF WHAT'S IN THE STUDIO.

AND YOU HAVE THIS INTIMATE TIME WHERE YOU CAN GET TO KNOW SOMEBODY.

AND THAT PARTICULAR EXPERIENCE WAS EMBELLISHED BY THE FACT OR MADE BETTER BY THE FACT THAT OTHER PEOPLE FROM THE BALLET WOULD COME AND WATCH.

AND VICTORIA CAME AND SAT.

KELLAR: OH, REALLY?

I DIDN'T KNOW THAT.

SAMSON: AND SHE BROUGHT HER DOG AND AND OTHER FOLKS FROM THE BALLET WERE THERE.

SO WE HAD A GOOD TIME.

AND IT'S A CHANCE TO TALK AND TO BE NATURAL AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

KELLAR: YEAH.

SAMSON: AND YOU GET TO KNOW SOMEBODY OVER THAT PERIOD OF TIME.

SO HOPEFULLY AS A PORTRAIT PAINTER YOUR JOB IS TO PICK AND CHOOSE THOSE ASPECTS OF CHARACTER THAT IS UNIQUELY THEIR OWN.

AND THAT'S WHAT CAME OUT IN THOSE SESSIONS.

KELLAR: YOU DIDN'T MIND PEOPLE VISITING THE SET?

SAMSON: I DIDN'T.

I DIDN'T.

WELL, AS LONG AS IT'S NOT TOO MANY.

KELLAR: YOU CAN SAY IT IF YOU DO.

SAMSON: IF THERE ARE A WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE IT CAN GET A LITTLE UNWIELDY BUT ONE OR TWO OTHERS COMING TO WATCH IS WELCOME AND PEOPLE ARE -- IT'S SUFFICIENTLY OUTSIDE OF THE NORM FOR MOST PEOPLE'S EXPERIENCE THAT THEY'RE KIND OF INTRIGUED BY IT.

KELLAR: HOW MANY HOURS WOULD THEY HAVE BEEN THERE?

SAMSON: I THINK THEY PROBABLY POSED ABOUT SIX OR SEVEN TIMES TWO AND A HALF, 3 HOURS EACH.

KELLAR: WOW.

SAMSON: BUT, YOU KNOW, JOHN SARGEANT WITH HIS MADAME X PORTRAIT, SUPPOSEDLY HAD 90 SITTINGS.

SO IT'S A WHOLE LOT BETTER IN 2022.

THAN IT WAS -- KELLAR: IS THAT BECAUSE YOU CAN REFER TO A PHOTOGRAPH IN BETWEEN.

SAMSON: YES, PARTLY IN THIS DAY AND AGE PEOPLE THAT WANT TO SPEND THAT AMOUNT OF TIME IN THE STUDIO ARE RARE BECAUSE LIFE IS BUSY LIFE IS COMPLEX.

WE'VE ALL GOT PLACES TO BE.

KELLAR: OH, MY GOSH.

SO THE VALENTINE PORTRAIT, FOR INSTANCE SHE'S STANDING AND HE'S SITTING.

SAMSON: CORRECT.

KELLAR: NOW, DO THEY HAVE TO TAKE THAT POSE THE ENTIRE TIME OR CAN YOU DO SECTIONS AND THEY CAN SIT DOWN?

SAMSON: DEFINITELY DO SECTIONS.

AND THERE ARE TIMES WHEN THEY CAN SIT DOWN IF I'M WORKING ON THE HEAD, FOR EXAMPLE AS LONG AS I GET THAT POSITION OF THE HEAD IN THE SAME BASIC SPOT.

SOME PORTRAIT PAINTERS WILL REQUIRE ABSOLUTE STATUESQUE STILLNESS.

KELLAR: OH, MY GOSH.

WELL, WHO COULD DO THAT?

SAMSON: AND I'VE NEVER BEEN THAT.

YEAH, I JUST THINK IT'S COMPLETELY UNNATURAL.

SO MY TENDENCY IS TO ERR ON THE SIDE OF ENGAGING THE SITTER IN CONVERSATION BECAUSE THAT AGAIN, IS IT MULTIPLIES THE DIFFICULTIES BUT IT ALSO GIVES YOU A BETTER SHOT AT UNDERSTANDING WHO THEY ARE.

KELLAR: BUT WHEN THEY'RE TALKING, THEIR MOUTHS ARE MOVING.

AND SO THAT'S -- DOESN'T THAT MAKE IT HARDER?

SAMSON: WHEN YOU GET AROUND TO THE MOUTH, YOU HAVE TO SAY "OKAY, I'M GOING TO WORK ON THE MOUTH NOW."

KELLAR: DON'T SAY ANYTHING.

SAMSON: SO, THEN THAT'S WHEN THE MUSIC GOES ON AND THEY CAN JUST RELAX.

KELLAR: OKAY, YEAH.

SO YOU MENTIONED EARLIER THE LIGHT IN YOUR -- ARE YOU STILL IN HERMAN AND BESSIE WESSEL'S HOUSE?

SAMSON: YES, WE STILL HAVE THAT STUDIO.

IT'S -- THE HOUSE IS 1887 AND HERMAN AND BESSIE BUILT THE STUDIO EDITION IN 1931.

AND IT IS THE QUINTESSENTIAL OLD SCHOOL ARTIST'S STUDIO BIG, TALL, NORTH FACING WINDOWS.

AND THEY DID A WONDERFUL JOB, THE WESSELS DID ON THAT.

KELLAR: AND HOW DID YOU HAPPEN TO -- IT JUST HAPPEN TO BE ON THE MARKET OR WHAT?

SAMSON: WELL, INTERESTING STORY.

I WAS, AT ONE TIME, I WAS THE CURATOR OF THE CINCINNATI ART CLUB COLLECTION.

AND EVERY TUESDAY NIGHT THEY WOULD HAVE SKETCH GROUP.

SO THEY HAD TO HAVE A FIGURE MODEL AND I WOULD GO SKETCH.

BUT BECAUSE I WAS CURATOR, I COULD GO INTO THE VAULT THE MUCH SORT OF VAUNTED VAULT BACK IN THE BACK AND LOOK THROUGH ALL THE PAINTINGS AND ALL THE ART CLUB ROSTERS, THE MEMBERSHIP ROSTERS.

KELLAR: RIGHT, WHICH ARE VERY IMPRESSIVE.

SAMSON: YEAH.

OH, GOSH.

YES.

A LONG LIST OF SOME OF THE GREAT PAINTERS NOT JUST IN CINCINNATI, BUT IN AMERICA.

AND I CAME ACROSS HERMAN AND BESSIE WESSELS NAME AND I THOUGHT, ALPINE PLACE, WHERE IS THAT?

SO, I ASKED AROUND AND THEY TOLD ME WHERE IT WAS.

I WENT TO SEE IT BECAUSE I'M A STUDIO FANATIC.

I LOVE TO FIND THESE OLD STUDIOS.

AND THERE WAS THE HOUSE SITTING EMPTY AND THERE WERE WORKMEN INSIDE AND THEY WERE GETTING IT READY TO RENT OUT AGAIN.

AND I WAS JUST AT THAT POINT ENGAGED WITH MY WIFE CAROL, AND I THOUGHT "THIS IS WHERE WE'RE GOING TO LIVE."

SO I CALLED CAROL FROM THERE.

I SAID, "YOU'LL NEVER GUESS WHERE I'M CALLING FROM.

IT'S THE WESSEL'S STUDIO IN THE HOUSE."

AND SO WE STARTED RENTING IT FIRST.

WE EVENTUALLY ENDED UP OWNING.

KELLAR: WHO OWNED IT?

SAMSON: IT WAS HELEN WESSEL, WHO WAS THE DAUGHTER-IN-LAW OF HERMAN AND BESSIE.

BOB HAD JUST PASSED AWAY, THEIR SON.

KELLAR: YEAH.

OH, MY GOSH.

SAMSON: SO I LOOKED THROUGH THAT FRONT WINDOW ALL THE WAY BACK INTO THE STUDIO AND MY JAW JUST DROPPED.

I WAS STRICKEN BY HOW GORGEOUS IT WAS.

KELLAR: OH, MY GOD, HOW SERENDIPITOUS.

OH, MY GOODNESS.

SAMSON: IT WAS AMAZING.

FRANK DUVENECK'S EASEL WAS SITTING THERE ALL THOSE YEARS.

KELLAR: OH, MY GOODNESS.

AND HOW DID YOU KNOW?

SAMSON: THEY TOLD ME.

THEY SAID, "THIS IS FRANK DUVENECK'S EASEL."

KELLAR: OH, HE LEFT IT THERE?

SAMSON: YEAH.

WELL, THE WESSELS GOT IT AFTER FRANK PASSED AWAY IN 1919 AND THEY USED THAT EASEL.

THERE'S ALL KINDS OF PICTURES OF THEM USING IT AND TALKING ABOUT IT.

KELLAR: YOU SHOULD PUT A LITTLE PLAQUE ON IT.

SAMSON: I THOUGHT ABOUT THAT, YEAH.

KELLAR: REALLY DO THAT BECAUSE THESE STORIES GET LOST.

AND THEN PEOPLE SAY, WELL, THEY SAY.

SAMSON: RIGHT, EXACTLY.

KELLAR: BUT IF YOU PUT -- I HAVE A PIANO THAT I HAVE A PLAQUE ON THAT SAYS WHO PLAYED IT.

YEAH.

SAMSON: SO DOWN THE LINE, WHO KNOWS?

YOU KNOW, THE KIDS GET A HOLD OF IT AND THEY MAY NOT KNOW.

KELLAR: YEAH, RIGHT.

SAMSON: OR APPRECIATE IT AS MUCH.

KELLAR: YEAH.

AND THEY MAY NOT EVEN RECOGNIZE THE NAME.

BUT YOU HAVE CHILDREN?

SAMSON: TWIN GIRLS, BOTH 24 AND THEY'RE JUST TERRIFIC.

THEY'VE BEEN A GREAT EXPERIENCE FOR CAROL AND I. KELLAR: HAVE EITHER -- ARE EITHER OF THEM ARTISTS?

SAMSON: THEY'RE VERY ARTISTIC.

FROM THE VERY MOMENT THEY WERE BORN THEY WERE INTO MAKING LITTLE SCULPTURES AND DRAWING AND THINGS.

BUT THEN EVENTUALLY THEIR INTEREST MORPHED MORE TOWARD MUSIC AND CHORAL SINGING AND THAT KIND OF THING.

SO THEY HAVE IT IN THEM FOR SURE.

RIGHT NOW, HALEY IS GOING AFTER OPTOMETRY AT OSU.

SHE'S IN THEIR SECOND YEAR, DOING REALLY WELL.

AND MADDY'S THINKING, SHE WAS LEANING TOWARD VETERINARY MEDICINE.

BUT I THINK WE'RE LOOKING AT OTHER THINGS NOW.

KELLAR: SO TELL US SOME MORE ABOUT SOME OF YOUR SUBJECTS.

SAMSON: WELL, LET'S SEE.

OVER THE YEARS, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS INTERESTING THAT HAPPENED WAS IN THE YEAR 2000 MY SUBJECT WAS MY WIFE, CAROL AT THE METROPOLITAN MUSEUM OF ART AND I WAS THE FIRST PAINTER IN HISTORY TO DO A LIVE PORTRAIT DEMONSTRATION ON THE STAGE AT THE MET IN NEW YORK.

KELLAR: OH, MY GOSH.

SAMSON: CAROL WAS MY MODEL.

SO THAT STANDS OUT AS KIND OF A -- AND THEY FILMED THAT AND THEY MADE THOSE DEMONSTRATION VIDEOS AVAILABLE FOR PEOPLE TO PURCHASE BACK THEN.

SO, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, OF ALL THE THINGS PEOPLE THAT YOU WORK WITH, THE SPECIAL MOMENTS ARE THOSE ORDINARILY WITH YOUR FAMILY.

KELLAR: YEAH.

SAMSON: AND PAINTING MY DAUGHTERS, FOR EXAMPLE MORE THAN A FEW TIMES.

AND BUT THAT ASIDE, THERE HAVE BEEN REALLY GREAT EXPERIENCES LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE 98 YEAR OLD J. MACK SWIGERT, WHO WAS.

KELLAR: OH, MY GOD, MACK.

OH, MY.

SAMSON: GOSH.

YEAH.

KELLAR: AND DID HE SIT FOR THAT?

SAMSON: HE DID.

HE STOOD THERE LIKE A STATUE.

IT WAS AMAZING.

AND JUST LIVING HISTORY IN FRONT OF YOU.

ANY QUESTION YOU HAD ABOUT THAT ERA.

KELLAR: HE WAS BRILLIANT.

SAMSON: HE WAS RIGHT ON IT.

KELLAR: ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT.

I HAVE A STORY ABOUT MACK.

WE HAD A FUNDRAISER WHEN THE MACNEIL LEHRER REPORT AND SO WE HAD ROBERT MCNEIL.

AND IT WAS ON A MONDAY AND IT WAS A LUNCHEON WITH HIM.

SO I CALLED MACK AND CALLED HIM AT HOME BECAUSE HE WAS IN HIS LATE 90S AND I ASSUMED HE WOULD BE RETIRED.

SAMSON: SURE.

KELLAR: SO, I CALLED HIM AT HOME AND HIS -- THE PERSON WHO ANSWERED THE PHONE SAID "OH, NO, MR. SWIGERT'S AT THE OFFICE."

AND I SAID, "OH, OKAY."

SO SHE GAVE ME HIS PHONE NUMBER AND I CALLED HIM AND I SAID, "YOU KNOW, I'D LIKE TO INVITE YOU TO LUNCH.

IT'S MONDAY," BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

AND HE SAID, "OH, I COULDN'T POSSIBLY COME.

THAT'S OUR PARTNER'S MEETING AND I NEVER MISS, I NEVER MISS A PARTNER'S MEETING."

AND I THOUGHT, "NOW, THAT'S A DEDICATED LAWYER."

SAMSON: HE WAS AMAZING.

HE WAS.

I USED TO SIT ON THE FRONT PORCH AND I'D SEE HIM DRIVE BY IN HIS PORSCHE AT AGE 98.

KELLAR: YEAH, YEAH, RIGHT.

YEAH.

HE WAS UNBELIEVABLE.

WHERE IS THAT PORTRAIT NOW?

SAMSON: NOW THAT PORTRAIT IS AT THE TAFT LAW FIRM.

KELLAR: OH, IS IT?

YEAH.

WELL, WHO ELSE?

SAMSON: WHO ELSE OVER THE YEARS?

WELL, I'VE DONE A PORTRAIT OF NATALIE PORTMAN AND THAT WAS ONE THAT WAS FOR A BOOK CALLED STAR WARS VISIONS.

KELLAR: YEAH.

SAMSON: AND WHAT HAPPENED THERE WAS MR. LUCAS GEORGE LUCAS GOT IN TOUCH WITH A BROKER WHO HAD HANDLED SOME OF MY WORK IN THE PAST.

AND THEY SET UP AN ARRANGEMENT WHERE MR. LUCAS WAS LOOKING FOR IDEAS FOR PAINTINGS BASED ON THE STAR WARS SERIES.

I HAD NEVER BEEN A HUGE STAR WARS FAN, I HAVE TO ADMIT.

KELLAR: ME EITHER.

SAMSON: BUT THIS OPPORTUNITY CAME ALONG AND I THOUGHT "I CAN'T, I CAN'T PASS THIS UP."

SO I CAME UP WITH A FEW IDEAS AND WE SETTLED ON ONE PARTIALLY THANKS TO MY WIFE CAROL, WHO SUGGESTED "WHY NOT TRY GOLD LEAF IN THE BACKGROUND?"

SO, I'VE GOT NATALIE PORTMAN IN PROFILE WITH GOLD LEAF IN THE BACKGROUND AND IT ENDED UP BEING PURCHASED BY MR. LUCAS AND IS IN HIS COLLECTION.

KELLAR: YEAH, HE OWNS IT.

DID HE REPRODUCE IT IN PROMOS?

SAMSON: IT'S IN THE BOOK AND IT TOURED AROUND THE WORLD FOR A TIME BEFORE IT ENDED UP AT HIS SKYWALKER RANCH I GUESS IT IS, IN CALIFORNIA.

KELLAR: OH, IS THAT.

YEAH.

AND ANY OTHERS COME TO MIND?

SAMSON: WHO ELSE COMES TO MIND?

WELL, THERE WAS JIM DEBLASIS FROM THE OPERA.

KELLAR: YEAH, I REMEMBER HIM.

SAMSON: HE WAS THE OPERA, THE ARTISTIC DIRECTOR.

KELLAR: YEAH, THIS IS IN THE MUSIC HALL.

SAMSON: MUSIC HALL AS WELL.

YEAH.

AND LET'S SEE, A WHOLE BUNCH OF WELL LIKE THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNIVERSITY OF CINCINNATI TWICE, I DID NANCY ZIMPHER'S PORTRAIT.

KELLAR: RIGHT.

SAMSON: AND ALSO JOSEPH STEGER.

KELLAR: OKAY.

ARE THOSE ALL HANGING AT UC?

SAMSON: I THINK THEY WERE GOING THROUGH SOME SORT OF REMODELING PROCESS THERE FOR A TIME AND THEY WERE ALL PUT IN STORAGE.

BUT THEY HOPEFULLY THEY'RE COMING BACK OUT SOON.

KELLAR: DID THEY HAVE A TRADITION OF DOING EACH PRESIDENT?

SAMSON: THEY DID.

THEY DID.

AND THE HEADS OF -- THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD OF THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS OF UC.

KELLAR: I MEAN, THOSE THAT'S -- WELL, THE CHAIRMAN I DON'T KNOW.

BUT THE BOARD IS A NINE YEAR THING.

BUT THE PRESIDENT OR CHAIRMAN IS ONLY LIKE A YEAR.

SAMSON: I THINK SO.

RIGHT.

RIGHT.

KELLAR: SO EACH YEAR YOU DO ONE?

SAMSON: I DID NOT, NO.

I'VE DONE A COUPLE.

I DID BILL KEATING, SR. KELLAR: HE WAS ONE OF MY ALL TIME FAVORITE PEOPLE.

I ABSOLUTELY LOVED HIM.

SAMSON: SUCH A NEAT GUY.

SO, YEAH, OVER THE YEARS A LOT OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE IN TOWN.

KELLAR: DO YOU THINK THAT YOU PAINT MORE FOR INSTITUTIONS FOR INSTANCE, PRESIDENTS OF -- OR JUST PEOPLE WHO WANT TO PERPETUATE THE MEMORY OF SOMEBODY IN THEIR FAMILY?

SAMSON: YEAH, THERE'S THAT.

THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF MOTIVATIONS.

SOME PEOPLE, OF COURSE, WANT THEIR CHILDREN PAINTED.

THERE ARE CEOS LIKE DID SEVEN FOR CINCINNATI FINANCIAL, THEIR BOARD OF DIRECTORS.

KELLAR: YEAH.

AND MR. SCHIFF AND BOTH SCHIFFS ACTUALLY AND DIFFERENT CEOS FOR SCRIPPS, E.W.

SCRIPPS.

KELLAR: RIGHT.

SAMSON: SO THERE IS CORPORATE BOARDROOM TYPE PORTRAIT.

AND THEN THERE'S THE PORTRAIT LIKE THE CORBETT'S, MR. AND MRS. CORBETT WHO RAN A FOUNDATION AND GAVE SO MUCH TO THE CITY.

AND THEY RUN ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT MOTIVATIONS.

SOMETIMES IT'S SOMEBODY WANTS IT OF THEMSELF SOMETIMES IT'S SOMEBODY A GROUP OF PEOPLE WANT TO HONOR SOMEBODY THAT THEY ADMIRE.

KELLAR: LIKE THE CARMON, LIKE THE BALLET.

SAMSON: YES.

KELLAR: AND YOUR LATEST ONE IS THE VALENTINES.

SAMSON: YEAH.

KELLAR: THAT WAS JUST UNVEILED A FEW MONTHS AGO.

SAMSON: JUST A FEW MONTHS AGO, BACK IN SEPTEMBER, YEAH.

KELLAR: AND WE LOVED IT.

WE THOUGHT IT WAS REALLY VERY GREAT.

SAMSON: THANK YOU.

KELLAR: SO WHAT ARE YOU DOING NOW?

SAMSON: WELL, WHAT I ALWAYS TRY TO DO WHEN I AM PAINTING IS TO TRY TO STRIKE THE BEST BALANCE BETWEEN THE PORTRAIT WORK AND OTHER THINGS THAT I REALLY ENJOY DOING AS WELL.

SO LANDSCAPE PAINTING, FIGURATIVE PAINTING ALL OF THESE THINGS HELP INFORM YOUR PORTRAIT PAINTING ON THE INSIDE.

I'll GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.

SO I WAS THE CHAIRMAN, THE EXECUTIVE CHAIRMAN OF THE AMERICAN SOCIETY OF PORTRAIT ARTS FOR THREE YEARS AND A BIG NATIONAL ORGANIZATION 700 PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD WERE PART OF THIS GROUP.

AND IF I HAD A PLATFORM, I WOULD SAY THAT IT WAS SOMEWHAT UNUSUAL FOR PORTRAIT PAINTERS BECAUSE I WAS ENCOURAGING YOUNG PEOPLE WHO WANT TO LEARN TO PAINT PORTRAITS TO ALSO PAINT STILL LIFE AND TO PAINT LANDSCAPES.

BECAUSE ALL OF THESE THINGS HELP INFORM YOUR PORTRAIT PAINTING.

KELLAR: RIGHT.

SAMSON: YOUR SENSITIVITY -- KELLAR: BECAUSE THAT'S HOW YOU STARTED.

SAMSON: ABSOLUTELY.

YOUR SENSITIVITY TO COLOR THAT YOU GAIN FROM PAINTING OUTDOORS IS THEN BROUGHT INTO THE STUDIO SO YOU CAN BRING MORE LIFE TO YOUR CHARACTERIZATIONS.

STILL LIFE PAINTING ALLOWS YOU TO COMPOSE AND MOVE THINGS AROUND AND HAVE FUN JUST AND YOU HAVE TO DO THAT IN A PORTRAIT OFTEN.

YOU HAVE TO COMPOSE THE DISTRIBUTION OF LIGHT AND DARK MASSES, APART FROM WHAT THEY REPRESENT IT HAS TO BE SATISFYING AND INTERESTING, SO.

KELLAR: WELL, PORTRAIT PAINTING IS SO DIFFICULT.

OH, MY GOSH.

THERE'S NO COMPARISON BETWEEN PAINTING A LANDSCAPE.

SAMSON: YEAH.

KELLAR: AND TRYING -- BECAUSE IF YOU GET OFF YOUR GOAL THERE ON A LANDSCAPE, NO ONE CAN SAY ANYTHING.

BUT A PORTRAIT HAS TO LOOK LIKE.

SAMSON: THAT'S RIGHT.

YEAH, I SORT OF EVERY NOW AND THEN I'll MENTION TO MY PEOPLE THAT WANT TO MAKE PORTRAIT PAINTING A PROFESSION THAT I SAY TO THEM "IT'S A LITTLE LIKE A CAREER IN DIPLOMACY MORE, JUST AS MUCH AS YOU'RE LEARNING TO PAINT BECAUSE YOU'RE DEALING WITH PEOPLE'S IMAGE OF THEMSELVES, SO IT CAN BE SENSITIVE."

KELLAR: HAVE YOU EVER HAD ONE THAT WAS DISAGREEABLE?

PEOPLE ASK ME THAT ABOUT MY SHOW, AND I DID HAVE ONE.

SAMSON: OH, YEAH.

IT'S INEVITABLE YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE ONE OR TWO PEOPLE THAT ARE A CHALLENGE.

AND I GUESS I'VE HAD A COUPLE THAT WAY.

KELLAR: BUT WERE THEY HAPPY IN THE END?

SAMSON: ABSOLUTELY.

THEY WERE, THEY HONESTLY WERE.

I MEAN, I'M NOT JUST SAYING THAT.

IT CAN BE, IT CAN BE A CHALLENGE TO GO THROUGH ONE'S PERCEPTION OF HOW THE THING IS DEVELOPING.

AND THERE ARE THOSE WHO CAN SEE THROUGH TO WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE AT THE END.

AND THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE WHO JUST COULDN'T IMAGINE WHAT IT'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE.

SO THEY ASK A LOT OF QUESTIONS AND THEY HAVE MAYBE A TOUCH OF ANXIETY ABOUT THIS OR THAT ASPECT OF IT.

AND I ALWAYS HAVE TO SAY "YOU'VE GOT TO WAIT TILL IT'S FINISHED OR NEARLY FINISHED."

KELLAR: YEAH, THAT'S GOOD.

THAT'S GOOD ADVICE.

HAVE YOU EVER BEEN THE TEACHER?

SAMSON: I HAVE.

I'VE DONE QUITE A BIT OF TEACHING AND I CAN -- I WOULD LIKE TO DO MORE OF THAT.

KELLAR: REALLY?

SAMSON: ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE THINKING ABOUT IS USING THAT, AMONG OTHER THINGS USING THAT WESSEL HOUSE AS A POTENTIAL TEACHING ARRANGEMENT.

KELLAR: YEAH.

SAMSON: KIND OF A STUDY CENTER FOR AMERICAN ART OR FOR CINCINNATI GOLDEN AGE PAINTING.

KELLAR: YEAH.

SAMSON: OR IT COULD BE A HISTORIC ARTIST STUDIO HOUSE AND MUSEUM, WHICH THERE'S A NETWORK OF THOSE ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

KELLAR: YEAH.

SAMSON: SO WE'RE LOOKING AT POSSIBILITIES.

WE FEEL, CAROL AND I FEEL THAT WE'RE CARETAKERS OF THE PLACE, REALLY.

WE'RE JUST PASSING THROUGH, AS ALL OF US ARE.

HOW CAN WE MAKE A MARK IN TERMS OF SOMETHING THAT'S VERY SPECIAL AND UNIQUE AND HOPEFULLY PRESERVE IT FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS?

KELLAR: SO YOU'RE NOT PLANNING ON GOING OUT FEET FIRST?

SAMSON: I DON'T WANT TO, NO.

KELLAR: YOU DON'T WANT TO?

WHERE WOULD YOU GO THAT WOULD BE -- I MEAN, WHERE COULD YOU MOVE THAT WOULD BE AS -- SAMSON: AS FAR AS MY PAINTING STUDIO?

WELL, THAT'S ACTUALLY ANOTHER THING I'M DOING RIGHT NOW IS A FEW YEARS AGO WE HAD A TREE FALL IN OUR HOUSE.

IT DESTROYED OUR GARAGE AND A COUPLE OF CARS AND HALF THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE.

SO IT WAS A BIG TRAUMATIC EVENT.

BUT ONE NICE THING OUT OF IT IS THAT WE GET TO REBUILD OUR GARAGE.

SO ON THE SECOND FLOOR I'M PUTTING IN A SKYLIGHTED ARTIST STUDIO.

KELLAR: YEAH.

SAMSON: THAT'S OUT IN MILFORD.

SO WE LIVE MOSTLY OUT OF MILFORD AND WE USE THE WESSEL HOUSE AS THE STUDIO GALLERY, YEAH.

KELLAR: SO YOU DON'T LIVE THERE.

OH, I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND, I THOUGHT YOU LIVED THERE.

SAMSON: WE HAD UNTIL SOME YEARS AGO WE DECIDED TO MOVE, SO.

KELLAR: BUT SO YOU JUST KEEP IT AS -- SAMSON: WE DO, YEAH.

KELLAR: AND DO PEOPLE COME JUST TO SEE IT OR DO YOU HAVE SPECIAL EVENTS?

SAMSON: THEY DO.

OCCASIONALLY I'VE HAD TOURS WITH THE MACDOWELL SOCIETY'S BEEN BY CINCINNATI PRESERVATION ASSOCIATION HAS BEEN BY ON A BIG TOUR AND ANYBODY WHO WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT I CAN CERTAINLY ARRANGE FOR THAT TO HAPPEN.

IT'S A UNIQUE PLACE.

IT'S GOT A GREAT VIBE AND IT'S -- THE WESSELS TOOK GOOD CARE OF IT AND WE'RE TRYING TO DO THE SAME.

KELLAR: DO YOU HAVE ANY OF THEIR PAINTINGS?

SAMSON: WE DO.

WE HAVE SOME UP THERE AND WE HAVE A LOT OF THE DRAWINGS THAT THEY DID.

AND BESSIE, WHEN SHE WAS A STUDENT OF FRANK DUVENECK BEAUTIFUL CHARCOAL PORTRAIT DRAWINGS THAT ARE JUST EXQUISITE.

I MEAN, WELL BEYOND WHAT MOST PEOPLE ARE BEING TAUGHT TODAY.

KELLAR: YEAH.

SAMSON: AND THEN THERE'S HERMANN WESSEL COLOR STUDIES FOR MURALS.

HE DID THE MURALS FOR THE OLD FEDERAL RESERVE BANK BUILDING IN DOWNTOWN CINCINNATI.

SO YEAH, THERE'S A LOT OF MATERIAL THERE THAT COULD BE INSTRUCTIVE.

KELLAR: YEAH.

DO YOU THINK THAT YOU'LL BE PAINTING FOREVER OR DO YOU WANT TO?

SAMSON: I THINK SO, YEAH, EVERY ARTIST DREAMS OF WHEN THE END COMES, YOU'RE AT YOUR EASEL, RIGHT?

KELLAR: WELL, YOU ARE AN INCREDIBLY INTERESTING, WONDERFUL PERSON.

WHAT A GIFT TO CINCINNATI THAT WE HAVE YOU HERE.

SAMSON: THANK YOU.

KELLAR: THE EMINENT PORTRAIT PAINTER IN THE COUNTRY THAT'S THE WINNER OF THE -- WHAT WAS THE NAME?

SAMSON: IT WAS THE JOHN HOWARD SANDEN AWARD, GRAND PRIZE AWARD FOR PORTRAIT PAINTING.

KELLAR: FOR PORTRAIT PAINTING, AND THE PRESIDENT OF THE PORTRAIT PAINTERS SOCIETY.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

SAMSON: IT'S BEEN MY PLEASURE, BARBARA.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

GREAT TO BE HERE.

ANNOUNCER: JOIN US NEXT WEEK FOR ANOTHER EPISODE OF SHOWCASE WITH BARBARA KELLAR RIGHT HERE ON CET.

Captions: Maverick Captioning CIN OH MaverickCaptioning.com