JOHN YANG: As millions of American Catholics prepare to mark the third Sunday of Advent tomorrow, the Pope's efforts to make the church more inclusive for LGBTQ plus people and for women and urging vaccinations against COVID.

They're creating a growing rift between traditionalist American Catholics and Vatican.

Ali Rogin has more.

ALI ROGIN: Over the last 10 years, Pope Francis has gained the adoration of Catholics and non-Catholics around the world for his humility, care for the poor and for steering the church to reform its stances on some social issues.

While the most recent polling from 2021 shows Francis has the support of the majority of Catholics in the U.S., conservative clerics and lay people in America are some of his most vocal critics.

In November, the Pope moved against two of his loudest detractors, Bishop Joseph E. Strickland and Cardinal Raymond Leo Burke, both Americans.

Last month, Strickland was removed as Bishop of the Diocese of Tyler, Texas.

Then a few weeks later, Cardinal Burke was stripped of his Vatican privileges, housing and salary.

David Gibson is the director of the Center of Religion and Culture at Fordham University.

David, thank you so much for joining us.

Let's talk first about the type of Pope Francis has been.

What sort of reforms and changes to the church has he focused on?

DAVID GIBSON, Fordham University: Pope Francis is really focused on being a pastor being providing a more pastoral, inclusive merciful church going out to the peripheries, those who are in suffering.

So that's been his signature is really going out and helping those of the poor, the homeless, the immigrant, the refugee, so he's seen as very merciful figure.

What he's not terribly merciful towards are the elites in the church, that powerful those who have all the privileges and all the perks, and we've seen how he's moved against some of them in recent months.

ALI ROGIN: And is it that the American Catholic Bishops leaders who have criticized him, are they considered elites in church standing?

And why is it that they seem to have been among the most vocal critics of Pope Francis?

DAVID GIBSON: Well, the opposition to Pope Francis is very loud.

And it's very influential, but it's really very small and very much located in the Anglosphere, especially in the United States.

There's a lot of big money behind this conservative movement.

So they have this great profile, and again, a certain degree of influence, but they're relatively small.

But they have a certain approach that kind of tracks the political trends in the United States.

And they don't like what Pope Francis is doing.

He's really up ending all of the customs and all of the privileges that these bishops and cardinals were used to.

And they really don't like that if you step back from the disagreements over politics, over doctrine over ideology, a lot of this is simply the fact that these are bishops and cardinals who had the inside track under the previous pontificates.

John Paul II, and Benedict XVI for over 35 years.

Now, you have a pope who was elected 10 years ago, who up ends all of that.

He's the first pope from the southern hemisphere.

He's from Argentina.

He's not going to play favorites in the way that the other Pope's used to.

ALI ROGIN: And what does it say about the state of American Catholicism that Pope Francis enjoys relatively high approval ratings among the majority of American Catholics, and yet, he's coming under criticism from some American leaders.

DAVID GIBSON: What those high approval ratings say is that Catholics always liked the singer, even if they don't like the song.

It also indicates again that is conservative opposition to him, there's really vocal opposition to him based in the United States is very small.

That doesn't mean it's not influential and it's not damaging.

You have to remember that the American Catholic Church is just 5 percent of the global 1.2 billion member church.

So we tend to forget that and even within the 60, 65 million member Catholic Church in the United States, these real conservative elements are a minority.

ALI ROGIN: We mentioned these to Catholic leaders in the United States that Pope Francis has punished.

Can you tell us a little bit more about them and what they've said about him that elicited this response?

DAVID GIBSON: Well, these two cases one bishop Joseph Strickland in Tyler, Texas diocese in East Texas Cardinal Raymond Burke who's lived in Rome and also in Wisconsin.

They're distinct in the sense that they're both been longtime critics of Pope Francis.

But Bishop Strickland, his diocese really was not being well run.

Pope Francis has been extremely patient over 10 years with his critics like Cardinal Burke, who's been a longtime thorn in his side, and even with Joseph Strickland, who's endorsed some of the most virulent attacks against Pope Francis.

But in the case of Bishop Strickland, his diocese the morale was down.

The diocese is divided administratively, it's a mess.

Pope Francis finally said, you can't be a bishop of this diocese, you remain a bishop, but we need to replace you.

In the case of Cardinal Burke, you've got a 75-year-old Cardinal who's living in a 4,500 square foot apartment in Rome with a $60,000 a year stipend.

He spends, no one knows maybe a month total in Rome.

He has no job there.

He's got all these perks and privileges.

The Pope finally said to him, look, you can still be a cardinal, you can still vote in the next Conclave, you could even be elected Pope, after I leave the scene.

But we the Vatican are not going to give you a stipend anymore, and we're not going to give you a free apartment.

You can keep the apartment.

You just need to pay for it.

ALI ROGIN: In terms of his response to these critics and what you've laid out as inefficiencies in their diocese.

What does that tell us about the type of Pope that Francis is and the type of leader and the type of human that he is?

DAVID GIBSON: Pope Francis has really been patient, he's resisted moving against some of these critics.

Again, the criticism against Francis is an entirely different category than the dissent was from the left against John Paul II and Benedict XVI.

These bishops and cardinals aren't just disagreeing with the Pope.

They're saying he's not a legitimate teacher of the faith.

Some of them are even saying he's not a legitimate Pope.

It's almost like accusing the president of sedition.

Any Bishop, in a sense, can be his own Pope in the social media sense.

And Francis has not wanted to create other rival voices out there.

But at a certain point, he's asked to lose patience.

This just this month, he turns 87 years old.

Time is running out for Francis and he had to make some moves.

ALI ROGIN: David Gibson with Fordham University.

Thank you so much for your time.

DAVID GIBSON: Great to be here.

Thank you.