- [Narrator] Funding for this edition of One-On-One with Steve Adubato has been provided by Hackensack Meridian Health.

Keep getting better.

PSE&G, powering progress.

Kean University.

Where Cougars climb higher.

The New Jersey Education Association.

Valley Bank.

NJM Insurance Group.

Serving New Jersey’s drivers, homeowners and business owners for more than 100 years.

The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.

Moving the region through air, land, rail, and sea.

Johnson & Johnson.

And by New Brunswick Development Corporation.

Promotional support provided by NJ.Com.

Keeping communities informed and connected.

And by ROI-NJ.

Informing and connecting businesses in New Jersey.

- This is One-On-One.

- I'm an equal American just like you are.

- The way we change Presidents in this country is by voting.

- A quartet is already a jawn, it’s just The New Jawn.

- January 6th was not some sort of violent, crazy outlier.

- I don't care how good you are or how good you think you are, there is always something to learn.

- I mean what other country sends comedians over to embedded military to make them feel better.

- People call me 'cause they feel nobody's paying attention.

_ It’s not all about memorizing and getting information, it’s what you do with that information.

- (slowly) Start talking right now.

- That's a good question, high five.

(upbeat music) - Hi everyone, Steve Adubato.

This program kicks off a week's worth of programming that celebrates the 30th Anniversary.

Boy, you begin to realize how old you are and how long you've been doing this.

The 30th anniversary of the Caucus Educational Corporation, our not-for-profit production company.

We're gonna try to find the best of what we've done over the last 30 years, and I could not think of a better person to kick off this week worth of programming other than Neal Shapiro, the President and Chief Executive Officer of the WNET Group.

WNET group is NJ PBS, WLIW, WNET, Channel 13 in New York, and other affiliated entities.

Neal, thank you for helping us kick off the Caucus Educational Corporation's 30th Anniversary of programming.

- My pleasure, Steve.

And I was thinking, the only person that has a harder job than you is your producer who has to go back and find all that best stuff and limit it to one week.

- Yeah, but Neal, here's the funny thing that I think about.

So, I don't wanna make this overly personal, but I have this little goofy sign that that says, "I'm always hustling," and it's not about me, but I always feel like when people say, we're on autopilot, you've been doing this for a long time.

Raising money is not on autopilot.

Creative programming's not on autopilot.

In another program we do with Neal, he talked about digital distribution.

It's not on, distribution of programming is not on autopilot.

Question here, Neal.

Innovation, pivoting, constantly reinventing ourselves.

It's our job, is it not?

- It's our job and it's hard.

And this is like three-dimensional chess because everything is changing at the same time.

The audience interest is always changing.

The platforms are always changing.

The ability to what we, what we want to give to you and how we give it to you, that's all changing.

And at the same time, the entire world is changing around us.

So, you know, with all due respect to people who are making tires, I'm sure that changes, but it doesn't change the way our business changes.

So there's- - Right.

- The media business is incredibly demanding, and on top of all of that, the other demand is we have to keep raising the money to do it.

- Yeah.

In that spirit, I wanna go back, Neal, and we talked about this in another interview we did with Neal, a larger picture discussion, Big Picture discussion on the role of public media, public broadcasting as it relates to protecting our democracy.

That being said, Neal, the Caucus Educational Corporation was greatly influenced by the creation of NJTV, which turned into NJ PBS in July of 2011.

It changed the universe for all of us here.

The significance of NJ PBS partnering with, collaborating with not-for-profit entities, I don't wanna make this really about us, but we would not be who and what we are if we were not for the WNET Group and NJ PBS as a distribution system.

Please, Neal.

- Well, I think we realized early on in public media, we as a station were gonna do something.

And that was part of our job.

It was also our job to reach out and find other smart voices in New Jersey.

People could add more to the equation.

And people, there's no better example, frankly, than you, someone who was a smart journalist, who had a wealth of experience and that could bring the kind of in-depth interviews and seasoned thoughts that we knew when we chased the news every day, we couldn't.

And we also wanted make sure we had other voices, people who brought a different experience, than the people who just walked into the station every day.

That's what we wanted to do.

And Steve, you are Exhibit A about how well it's worked.

- Well, in that spirit when Neal talks about me, he obviously is really talking about the producers, the editors, the people behind the camera, everyone involved in our production at the Caucus Educational Corporation.

And again, we would not be who and what we are and have the distribution we have and the credibility we have if it were not for the WNET Group, Big Picture and NJ PBS here in New Jersey.

Neal, I wanna thank you for helping us kick off this 30th Anniversary of programming that tries to celebrate some of the best, the not so great interviews.

Neal, I'm gonna tell you, we're not gonna run.

We're not running this week, only the good stuff.

- You've got one week, so.

- You'll be fine.

But really, congratulations!

It's an incredible achievement.

Congratulations to you and your whole team.

- You're very kind.

Thank you.

That's Neal Shapiro, and this is the best of the Caucus Educational Corporation in 30 years on the show.

(upbeat music) - Mr. Mayor, you've said of your former political opponent, Mario Cuomo, said a lot of things about him, but one thing that I read that you said about him, there is less there than meets the eye.

- Yeah, well, you know, I have- - [Steve] Do you regret saying that?

- No, I don't regret anything I've said.

Sometimes I say I know I have to pay for it, but I don't regret saying it, no.

A life's too short to regret telling the truth.

- And in 1977, I'm running against Ed Koch for mayor of the city of New York.

Son of Sam is running around killing little girls, and Ed is for the death penalty.

And every time we appear anywhere together, he says, "Mario is against the death penalty."

"I'm for the death penalty.

What do you think of that?"

And they would boo me, et cetera.

My mother says to me one day, she had a little grocery store, she and my father; in broken English Italian, she says, "You don't like the electric chair?"

I said no.

She says why?

I say 'cause it's no good, and I gave her all the reasons: it doesn't work, you know, only the poor people go, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

And she says, "Mayor Koch wanted the electric."

I said yeah.

She says, you know, a woman came into the store: "How come your son is so big and so strong and he's so stupid and is so weak?"

She says, "You're going to lose."

I said, "Then I'll lose, I'll lose.

You want me, Ma, to change my opinion on this just to win the election?

That wouldn't be right."

She says, "Listen, you don't have to lose.

You tell 'em you want the electric chair.

After you win, forget about it."

- Other than Eleanor Roosevelt, who influenced you?

- You know, when I was Vice Chairman of the New Jersey Committee for the US Commission on Civil Rights, my chairman was a wonderful man, Rabbi Chertoff of Elizabeth.

And I used to call him up sometimes very disappointed with the work that I'd done during the week, not being productive.

And I remember one Sunday morning when I called him, he said, "But Millicent, you've got to pay attention to something that the wisdom of the elders said 700 years ago or something.

Remember, you may never arrive at the solution; you're never absolved from the responsibility of trying."

- What makes Broadway special?

- What makes Broadway special?

I mean, there's so many things to pick from, right?

- For you, for you, for you personally and professionally.

- For me personally, Broadway is so special because it is, I believe it is a place where you can be reminded of our humanity and a place where we can story-tell so that, you know, whenever you're living in life and you're going through the motions of the ups and downs of life, I feel like theater is a place where you can come to to find the expressions of what sometimes your emotions are not able to express all the time.

You know, you think sometimes being in a funk and not really have articulation for it, but go to the theater and have someone's story-tell to touch your heart.

It's fascinating the way that we can, you know, have a common thread of humanity explored through musical theater.

I love it so much, and its healing power in that way.

- Describe this show, the "Ensemble."

- For "Be More Chill"?

- Yeah.

- So there's a cast of 10 of us, not including swings, and everyone, both "SpongeBob" and this show, I feel like I just get lumped in with all the beautiful weirdos of Broadway.

We're all very supportive and loving of one another.

And we just have a lot of fun.

- [Steve] Is there a genuine, a real community, a Broadway community?

- Absolutely, and I never knew that until, I never that until I became a part of the community of Broadway.

- I'm the type of person, I live with my life, that's all.

Ah, you can't do that.

No.

Why are you gonna do this, and you can't go there.

I'm like, "Watch me do it.

Watch me do it."

I try to put that same energy into other people that may have doubts.

You know, you only need one person to believe that you can do it, and that's yourself, you know?

And if you want to go out there, whatever it is that may seem astronomical out there, you know, so far-fetched that somebody tells you that you can't do it, just go out there and prove them wrong.

I love to try to prove people wrong with that.

- [Steve] You love to prove people wrong?

- Yeah, it's a good feeling.

It's not one of those ha-ha, proved you wrong.

It's just that satisfaction knowing, look, I did this because you didn't think that I could do it, and watch where I can go from here.

That's how you get people to believe.

- Do you feel you and your colleagues, your teammates on the Giants, have a responsibility to do this?

- You know, I think when you're in the spotlight and you play for an organization, and, you know, you want to be involved in the community; you want to give back in some way.

And that's how I feel.

But you want to find something that you're passionate about.

You want to find something that means something to you.

You're not just doing something 'cause you feel you have to do something.

You're doing something 'cause you want to help these people.

It's something that's moved you, it's something that's touched your heart.

And when you visit, you know, a hospital and you see these kids that are struggling for their lives, but you see how strong they are.

You see how they just, you know, they get up and they do it.

They don't have an option.

They just keep fighting.

They're fighting for their lives, and you want to help them out any way you can.

And I think that's why you get involved.

That's why you wanna, you know, bring some of your teammates and let them see this, let them see what people are going through, how blessed we are and what they're going through, and how we can help out these other people that are going through tough times in their lives.

- How great the experience of being a part of this iconic, extraordinary show, Sesame Street.

- Well, as you can imagine, it was just remarkable.

It had personal meaning for me.

I was raised in the Bronx in the fifties watching a lot of television at a time when Latin people and people of color were not in the media, we where not represented in any way.

And I certainly did on some conscious level wonder what I was going to contribute to a society that was blind to me.

So when I got on Sesame Street, it was boom.

They saw the need and and I was there to become my own role model and essence, which is what I became.

But for all the children who finally had the opportunity of seeing someone who looked like them, that was thrilling.

- You love it, don't you?

- I love standup.

- Because?

- There's something I get from standup that I don't get from anything else.

It's in my bones, it's in my soul.

I come from a very sarcastic family.

I'm still, I'm 53.

Thank you, guys.

Calm down.

- No way.

- I'm gonna be 54 in in November.

- [Steve] Get outta here, you look... - Anyway, and so I- - It must have been those years as a toll collector on- - Yes, I was a toll collector on the New Jersey Turnpike.

That was one of my first jokes, actually.

- What's the joke about that?

- I don't even remember.

I was like, I remember, it was a very early joke, and I just remember during the joke I was going like this the whole time.

Thank you, I would be telling a joke and be like, "Thank you."

- Let me ask you something.

- Yeah.

- Not about Broadway and not about this particular play.

Do you think a lot about race relations?

- Man, I gotta tell you, I think more about race relations now than I did maybe even five years ago.

- Because?

- Yeah.

I think because the political narrative we have, the political awareness, you know, we're all acutely aware of the dynamics of race and politics, which are inextricably linked oftentimes.

You know, when I started in the '80s, it was more, but I'm think about it was "The Cosby Show," which has a different connotation now, it was "The Cosby Show" and it was the '80s, It was the, you know, good times.

And as an actor of African descent, you know, many of the roles I would take and many of the roles discussed was, you know, let's find roles that show us as human beings, that's not always about race.

And now it's a different time.

You know, now it's a time in our everyday conduct, but also in the world, in the arts, where we're kind of really starting to explore even more and even deeper the issues of race.

- Why do you believe there is such a gap, a disparity between how so many, how Blacks traditionally and today view race and racial relations and whites?

Because we do.

- I think that a lot of it is that we talk at each other more than to each other.

And we live in different realities, and people do not understand each other's reality.

So therefore we get defensive or offensive rather than understanding.

So for example, if there is a police shooting- - [Steve] Yeah, let's talk about those.

- The reality is that in the Black community, it is perceived as more of the same.

In the white community, oh, you are against law enforcement.

You're picking on cops.

You're just stirring up the pot.

Rather than understanding that yes, there's a criminal element that scares some in the white community, but yes, that you have these continued abuses in the Black community by some in law enforcement that we don't see in other communities.

And all of them are not right, but all of them are not wrong either.

Everybody can't be fantasizing.

And I think that we never try to meet in the middle and say, "Well, let's talk about this."

- [Narrator] To watch more One on One with Steve Adubato find us online and follow us on Social media.

- There you go, folks.

Some of the most interesting interviews over the last 30 years.

You know, all it means is when you say you've been on for 30 years, it just means you're old.

That's all it means.

You've been at this for a long time, but now you're about to see a whole bunch of interviews, and it runs the gamut, political figures like Peter Rodino, who chaired the House impeachment judiciary hearings in the House, that and Watergate, Nixon, you know?

How about Joe Pesci?

I mean, come on, "I'm a clown, I make you laugh".

That's the "Goodfellas."

You get that, right?

Gayle King, one of our favorites.

Mario Cantone, love him as a comedian.

Alan Alda, fascinating.

Bryan Cranston, I mean, big names here.

30th anniversary, lot of interesting interviews.

This is the best of the best.

(upbeat music) - We value the Constitution because it preserves for us and protects us in our right to speak out.

- But Congressman, do we respect the rights of others as much as we respect and demand that the Constitution work for us?

What I mean by that is, are there not times, far too many times, where many of us as Americans say, "Preserve and protect my rights."

But if a guy's skin is darker and his name sounds like it's Middle Eastern, and I'm suspicious, treat him differently and don't have the Constitution work for him.

- That may be the case from time to time.

- That has to worry you.

- That is an imperfect something within individuals.

But the design of the Constitution gives you the right to protest that.

- I still feel that I'm a work in progress.

I don't care how good you are or how good you think you are, there is always something to learn.

I really do believe that.

And I approach every day that way.

You know, am I having a great life?

Do I think I'm doing okay?

I absolutely do, but I also know that there's always ways to get better: always.

So I never sit and think, "Okay, there's nothing more to accomplish.

You're really at the top."

I don't look at it that way.

I still feel that I can do better, be better.

- No career in Hollywood is ever really achieved without a healthy dose of luck.

And I have had it, whether it's the series "Malcolm in the Middle," "Breaking Bad," my Broadway shows- - "Seinfeld," I'm sorry for interrupting, Brian, "Seinfeld."

Oh yeah, that little show.

Go ahead, I'm sorry.

- Lucky breaks.

Lucky breaks.

And I think it's great to look at it that way, because if you always look at these things that happen to you along a career as lucky breaks, it doesn't mean you don't put in the work; it's not mutually exclusive like that.

You must put in the work, and then you hope for those lucky breaks.

And by accepting them as breaks, you prevent any sense of entitlement to enter into your world; which is a good way to live, is that no one owes you anything.

Just keep working.

- Darlene, what's it like for you today to be as hot as ever, sought-after more than ever before, people wanna know about your life and they want to hear you sing, what is that like for you, not just as a performer, just as a person who loves her art?

- Yes, that's the favorite word for me.

I do love my art.

I love pleasing my audiences more than I do anything else.

Because some of your fans come in, they don't feel good or they had a bad day, or, you know, and I tell them, I came to lift your spirits.

And that is my joy, to be able to do a 90-minute show, and in that time touch people's hearts.

That's the main thing.

I'm not just walking out on the stage, okay, I'm getting paid; okay, let me do this show.

That is never my intent.

the minute I walk on the stage, I'm Darlene Love.

I'm theirs for that 90 minutes.

- Were you put on this Earth to do this?

- I do believe that.

- It's tough being a homosexual in the '80s and coming up in these mainstream comedy clubs.

Very difficult, very difficult.

And also, you know, all those standup shows that people, that they would come in and watch the comedians and book you for those television shows, those standup shows, I did some of them.

Networks would come in, look for people for shows.

And I was always bypassed.

I remember one time Peter McCauley came in for the Johnny Carson show.

And his visceral reaction was just like, "You're so good.

I don't know what we're gonna do with you, but Johnny's gonna love you and we're putting you on the show."

They booked me October 26th, 1986.

I was gonna be on with Lily Tomlin, who was my idol.

A week before, I got a call, and he said, "I looked at your tape again and it has a gay edge to it.

And I think it'll make Johnny nervous.

So we're we're canceling it."

- Make Johnny nervous?

- Yeah.

Yeah, I don't think Johnny even saw me, but they canceled me.

- How'd you deal with that?

- It was devastating.

But I knew, it was like this is gonna be a tough haul.

It's gonna be a rough one.

- I didn't know anyone in Hollywood.

I had no relatives in Hollywood.

So what do you do?

What do you do when you have a passion that burns so bright inside you that you really, really want to make it happen?

And it's the story of my journey, and it's a journey that could maybe best be summarized by my having knocked on doors until my knuckles bled, constantly having them slam in my face, picking myself up, dusting myself off, going back and knocking again.

- He goes by his instincts.

- Yes, he does.

- And you feel the country, a significant portion of the country is wanting that.

- Well, they want change, Steve.

- From everything before?

- Right.

And they don't wanna a politician who's been in the job 30 years that hasn't done anything for them.

They don't wanna feel like, okay, this is gonna be more of the same.

And I don't think this is Republican or Democrat.

This is throw the bums out.

Let's start again.

Let's try to look at this government that we have and try to make sure that everybody is really being represented.

And I think they just wanted change.

I don't think any of those 16 candidates on stage could have beaten Hillary Clinton.

- Say that again?

- The 16 candidates who Donald Trump beat on the Republican- - Tremendous accomplishment.

- Okay.

I mean, he beat all those 16 people.

- Some major players.

- Right.

Right, Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio, you know, Governor Huckabee, et cetera.

I don't think any of those people could have beaten Hillary Clinton, because it wasn't about Republican versus Democrat.

It was about change.

Here comes this bombastic guy from Queens, New York who's leading by instinct.

And for a majority of people, they said, "You know what?

This is the guy to shake things up.

I don't know if he's going to lead the country better than what we've seen in the last eight years, but I'm willing to take a bet.

I'm willing to take a bet on change, because so far it's just not working for me."

- With Scorsese, you know, it's just wide open.

- Wide open?

- Yeah.

I can do whatever I want.

And he never discourages it.

He always encourages it, you know?

- Is De Niro the same way?

- The same way.

- It's funny, the people who are most successful seem to be the most open-minded to new ideas.

- And the most giving too, for sure.

- Because during those 11 years, I realized that if the show was gonna work, if the audience was gonna understand some of the science, it would be because I understood it.

And I was relentless.

I would grab them by the lapels.

I'd say, "I don't understand what you're telling me.

Tell me again.

Tell me in a different way."

It made it so that there was a personal connection between them and me.

They forgot about lecturing to the camera.

They were talking to another human.

So they really felt a responsibility to make this poor schmo understand what they were saying, and then they started to speak in simple terms.

And that made me realize that we could probably teach scientists and other people who had complicated things to express, We could probably teach them to do it by getting them accustomed to this personal relationship that you have to get before you try to communicate.

- What's your favorite word?

- Love.

- What's your least favorite word?

- Hate.

- What turns you on?

- My wife.

- [James] What turns you off?

- Oh boy.

My first answer, I'm not going with.

I gotta go with the first?

- [James] No, you don't.

- Bullying.

- What sound or noise do you love?

- Luther Vandross.

- I always remember Ellen Burstyn's answer to that: it was bird song in the morning and Rachmaninoff at night.

What sound or noise do you hate?

- Yelling in our house.

- [James] What is your favorite curse word?

(Steve laughing) = Not doing it.

Ah, favorite curse word?

It's that word.

- The F-word.

- Yes, the F-word.

- [James] Yeah, it's almost everybody's favorite.

- And everyone on our staff knows, so I'm sorry.

- What profession, other than your own, would you like to attempt?

- I would always loved to have played center field for the only baseball team that matters: The New York Yankees.

- And what profession would you not like to participate in?

- Anything that involves working with your hands.

- Finally, if heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the pearly gates?

- I know you tried your best, Steve.

- Not bad at all.

(bright upbeat music) - [Narrator] One-On-One with Steve Adubato is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Celebrating 30 years in public broadcasting.

Funding has been provided by Hackensack Meridian Health.

PSE&G, Kean University.

The New Jersey Education Association.

Valley Bank.

NJM Insurance Group.

The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.

Johnson & Johnson.

And by New Brunswick Development Corporation.

Promotional support provided by NJ.Com.

And by ROI-NJ.

- (Narrator) New Jersey is home to the best public schools in the nation, and that didn't happen by accident.

It's the result of parents, educators and communities working together year after year to give our students a world class education.

No matter the challenge, because parents and educators know that with a shared commitment to our public schools, our children can learn, grow and thrive.

And together, we can keep New Jersey's public schools the best in the nation.