(contemporary music) - Eye on Education.

I'm Fred Martino.

The Center for English as a Second Language at Southern Illinois University Carbondale has a program that enrolls students from across the globe.

It's one of the oldest certified intensive English programs in the United States and it's been offered for more than 50 years.

Today we have two students benefiting from the program Ludmille Lyvert from Haiti, and Marial Deng from South Sudan.

Thank you both for being with us today.

- Thank you for welcoming us.

- Thank you.

- It is so good to have both of you here.

And you know, to start with, I want to give the chance for both of you to tell me a little bit about yourselves and your decision to apply for this program.

Ludmille, let's start with you.

- So let's start with that.

Hello Fred.

Hello.

Hello Marial my classmate.

I am Ludmille Lyvert.

I am a fFulbright Scholar.

I am from Haiti and I plan to do master degree in gender studies.

What I can say is applying for the English program is a requirement because I couldn't have the score required to apply at the university.

But I decided myself to invest in that process because I believe that immersing in a country where you are learning the language of that country is probably the best way to learn and improve your skills.

So that's why I decided to do that.

And until now I am pretty confident that I'm doing well.

- Yeah, absolutely.

I will second that notion for sure.

Marial, how about you?

How about you?

- Well, thank you Fred for this interview.

I'm Marial Deng from South Sudan.

I come from a small village in the south.

Before our independence it was south in Sudan.

Then in 2011 we have South Sudan.

So I come from a region called Bahr el Ghazal and my small village is Mariella where I started my primary school and then I did a bachelor degree in geology and mining.

- Oh.

- But then I decided to come and do communication journalism 'cause my heart was always in journalism.

I did not love the profession of being a geologist.

- Okay Interesting.

- Yeah.

So that's my background.

- Yeah.

So this has extra meaning for you getting a chance to visit a television and radio operation 'cause this is the field where you want to work one day.

- Yeah, sure.

I've been working as a radio presenter, then I became a manager for five years.

So before I went to the university, I was already.

- Already working in the field.

- Working in the field, yes.

So when I was at the university I was also working part-time for a newspaper.

And so my heart was not always in the geological field.

My heart was in the media.

- Okay.

- So when I finished I went to work as a radio presenter, a news writer, then I became a manager and I said, okay let me develop my career 'cause it feels like this is where I want to be.

- That's fantastic.

- And that's why I came to do masters here.

- That is great.

That is great.

Well it's wonderful.

And as part of this program I know, you're getting a chance to also volunteer in the community.

Tell me about that experience for you.

- I have moved in most of the community programs and our country being new.

Some of these things they are either growing or are not there.

So it was a marvelous opportunity for me to experience.

One of the examples I give is the nursing home.

We don't have in my country.

You become unfortunate if you do not have a kid, your child to take care of you.

- Yeah.

- You stay in your own house when you grow old, probably you can die of hunger.

- Mm.

- But if you have your children then they can take care of you.

- Yeah.

- So when I went there, I feel there are those who could be fortunate to have that program.

Where when you grow old you can go and stay there.

- Yeah.

- I also went to giant city park and it's something that whether they don't value or is still to be established, we don't have in South Sudan.

- Well.

- And - Getting s chance to see that probably brought you back to your bachelor's degree learning about geology 'cause there's a lot of geology to look at.

- So while they were explaining to some of my colleagues, I already know them.

- Yeah, absolutely.

Ludmille, tell me your experience what has stood out to you about volunteering in the community and that part of this program?

- Oh, first I want to highlight that this aspect, the volunteering program is part of the CESO curriculum at SIU.

- Yeah.

- And that makes this program perfect because if you want to immerse in the country as I told you, this was my first goal, you have to know all the community is organized.

Like the local institution.

Like Marial said we visit local institutions like Green Hearth.

We visit Women for Change.

As you know, I'm interested in gender studies and probably one of the most meaningful experience that I've done so far is to attend the city council meeting.

- Oh.

- Oh yes.

And oh my God, it was so great to see that in a country like USA, they give people access or they like, let people express themselves.

- Yeah.

- It's like when you are in a democratic country you have access to vote, right.

You have access to elect some representatives but you don't have a place to go and talk if something bothers you.

But in the city council meeting I could actually see people talking about like maybe some meaningless things according to me.

But it was important for them.

- Yeah.

- So I am so privileged or maybe grateful for attending that meeting as I could witness something like people can actually talk not only elect or vote someone, but talk.

And for me, this is a great example of a democratic country.

- Yeah.

Very powerful to see in action.

I was thinking about that even in the last week myself.

Because I have a friend in another city where I've lived, who has worked in my field in communications and she is now planning to run for the city council in her community.

And it was just a reminder for me again, of the power of our institutions that have open access to anyone.

You have to work at it for sure.

And it can be challenging for sure, but anyone can run for office.

And so that ability to do that is very powerful.

And seeing that in action is very powerful.

Especially from someone who never thought they would do it.

But after getting the chance doing it, it becomes meaningful to them.

Well one of the things that I wanted to ask you about today is the benefit of being multilingual.

It's an incredible benefit.

Tell me how it's helped you.

- This is a good question because actually talking with you is one of the benefit that I've gained from being multilingual.

Talking with Marial, who's from South Sudan my Colombian friends, my Vietnam friends.

So for me it's like it opened the doors.

When you can communicate with people around the world because like English is a commercial language and in each country you will find people will speak in English.

So if you can actually talk with those people, that's great.

And you can also express your needs, build something powerful together.

And also one of the most important benefits that personally have for me that I gained from that is the fact that I can actually apply for experiences around the world.

And the fact that I could speak in English has helped me to apply for Fulbright scholarship.

Even though I couldn't have the score, required score at least I could express my opinions.

I could understand people talking.

And that helped me to come here and started to learn English.

So I think it not only opens door for me to talk with people around the world, but I can also try to achieve my goal.

Not only staying in Haiti where I grew up all my life but also go all over the world.

- Yeah.

Outstanding.

Yes.

Marial, how about for you being multilingual?

What stands out as the biggest benefits for you?

- Well, as my colleague Lud said, when you know another language it opens so many opportunities for you.

And you'll be able to get what those who do not know languages, other many languages.

No get, one of the examples I'll give was of my community.

There was one lady college, she was a former slave and she learn English.

Then when she was free, she came to our community and when the British came, she became the interpreter.

You can imagine the first British, you came to my land how they were able to speak to the local people.

'Cause there was no language.

The British did not know the language and they did not know English.

So she happened to know English.

And then she became the interpreter.

And she became a chief.

Despite the father, she was a woman and women were not allowed to lead.

But because of the advantage of language she became our chief and her name remains up to today.

So that was an example of being multi-lingual and became frame of reference for our people that go and learn English, you'll be like actually who is our chief because of language.

- Yeah.

That's a great example.

You've talked a lot too about how this program at Southern Illinois University has helped you.

What else do you want to say about the program and how it's helped you grow your skills?

- Thank you.

It has really polished my writing skills, my pronunciation, because as I said before we from a country where some of these institutions were very weak.

So we were taught by teachers who were not trained.

And so even if I studied English in prime draft University, there were some gaps.

- And I'm glad you mentioned the writing.

We talked about before we started taping that today it seems there is so much more communication in writing because we communicate electronically through emails, social media, et cetera.

- Yes.

So even when I first came speaking to an American it was hard for them to understand me because of pronunciation.

So it could be, it was easier to write.

- To write (laughs) - Than speaking.

But now I've polished my pronunciations because we're able to be given how to pronounce some syllables, some pronunciation up words, the writing.

And so I feel much better than I was.

- Yeah.

- So this program has really enriched me.

And being someone in the media who will always be exposed to writing, I needed that to fill the gaps.

- That's fabulous.

Yes.

That's great.

Well, how about you?

This program and what it's meant for you?

- Well, Fred, I told you that I couldn't have the required score for Fulbright.

And (indistinct) is about the four skills.

Reading, writing, speaking and listening.

So in CESO, all our classes are on those four skills.

So I quite a lot, I felt like as a perfectionist, someone wants to get the best, to have the best.

I fail to not be able to have the required score.

But after, I don't know, we have five months six months in CESO.

And lastly, during my last of full test, I was so proud of myself because I practically see that I improved a lot.

- That's great.

- I could read easily.

I could understand, I could listen and understand what the the list of the lectures are saying.

I could why also, without having to think, without taking five minutes to think about what I want to write I could like use a normal speed to write.

And for me that was fabulous.

And I can't thank CESO enough for that.

Also, one thing I want to highlight is the fact that I feel prepared to go at the university and to pursue my master degree.

Because in Haiti we learn French.

And French is different from English.

In French we talk a lot.

In English we go straight forward to the point.

So writing in French is different from writing in English.

And thanks to CESO I could literally practice my writing skills and try to give the best of me.

Also, I don't know if you notice that difference.

Maybe you don't know French.

In my country, when you are writing the text you usually try to justify, like justify the text.

Just the simple example.

But in USA you have to highlight the text align the text to the left.

- Mm.

- And I wasn't comfortable with that.

- Yeah, yeah.

- I don't know.

I wasn't in comfortable with that.

And for me, that's one of the example that I can take that proves that coming here to learn English in order to prepare for the university is really an important step to take.

- That's great.

That's great.

Well, you know, of course many people who grow up in the United States with English as their first language never go beyond high school classes in another language.

Tell me about your experience in becoming multilingual.

- I studied English in high school in Haiti and I hated English.

I focus on Spanish, but I don't think that I hated English.

I think that I couldn't learn English.

And that's different.

- And that was why you hated?

- Yes.

(laughs) - Now you don't because you learned.

- No, I don't.

Oh, oh no, I don't.

And also after my high school studies, I spent four years learning English because it was mandatory for me as I had a scholarship from HELP, Haitian Education and Leadership Program, I had to learn English.

- Okay.

- It was a requirement, so I didn't have choice.

But after this program I started to like English but I was still afraid of talking with people.

- I was so hesitant because I didn't trust myself and I was not in a environment that could help me too.

- Yeah.

- So that's why I decided to apply for Fulbright in coming United States to immerse in that culture because.

- Yeah.

And so you're fluent in English and in French.

Are you fluent in Spanish as well?

- No I'm not.

- No.

But you learned Spanish so you know parts of it.

- Yeah.

So I think the difference is when you come in United States, you learn English to survive.

When you trying to learn English to survive you have to talk in English, right.

You don't have choice.

So that's why you will be able to improve because you have to talk, you are in the environment to talk.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

Interesting.

Marial, how about your experience in becoming multilingual?

- Well, apart from the opportunity that you get it changes.

Learning another language changes your lens of seeing things.

For instance, language comes with the culture of those people who owns the language.

For instance, even when I was young we used to watch American movies and also read books.

So I was open to knowing the culture already.

So what was new to me here was seen practically.

But I was reading a lot about American people, their heroes, the, even the war with Vietnam.

Like the other one went to Kids' Corner.

One of my colleagues is from Vietnam.

When she said she's from Vietnam, the little kid said, okay I watched the movies about American War with Vietnam.

And then I also had the same story with that little boy 'cause I also watched the movies in my country is because I was able to listen to English which brings the difference.

I may not know history of France because I don't speak French, so I may will not have interest to watch a movie in French.

- Yeah.

- Or read because I cannot read.

But because I was able to read English and speak it.

I listen to their movies.

Yeah.

I read their books.

- It's such a great example though.

- Because, so I know now the.

- We often get information from the media this way.

Movies and television and gotta be careful of that of course.

Because it's not always an accurate view of the culture perhaps.

But it is a way to learn more about the language and parts of the culture.

- Yes, so now I know more about the British and the Americans.

- Yeah.

- Because of the English.

- That is so great.

That is so great.

- So it helps when you know some other languages.

- I wanna get your advice on this Marial and then you as well Ludmille.

What do you think parents can do to encourage their children to learn another language?

- I think you would be proud that your child knows about other people or other cultures.

'Cause when you stay in your house you think of your father and your mother.

Your mother are the best or everything around you is the best.

But when you know about other people through languages then you be able to know that other people also have something good about them.

And also having a language, you'll be able to have a lot of connections, do business jobs.

And if you know, for instance, the Spanish language and you go to Spain, you can easily integrate into the community than if you didn't know.

- Yeah.

- So I would advise parents that their kids have to learn also another language because you already have an advantage.

English is your language so you need to know the second one or the third one.

And that opens your world.

- Yeah.

- Then being confined in, like you grow up in Illinois and then you die there without having toured the world or having known other people or other cultures.

- Yeah.

- So it is true language that you can have access to knowing the culture, having other opportunities or jobs or you can be an ambassador.

- Yeah.

- To France or to a French colony like in West Africa and American ambassador.

And you'll be able to integrate easily or you will understand the local reality on the ground.

- Very.

- Then if you didn't know French.

- Very well said.

Very well said.

And very good examples.

Ludmille, your thoughts on this and how parents can encourage their kids to learn another language.

- I think in order to have on what Marial said I think first the parent school be interested in learning English too because you can't give to the children what you don't have.

- Yeah.

- I think it could be a great step to take and also it also effective or efficient for children to learn English in their early age because they are more open to learn many things.

- Yeah.

And we learn faster at a time.

- Yeah.

They learn faster.

And as a point in case I have a friend in my class at CESO, she's from Paraguay.

She never studied English.

She learned English in her mom's house.

She used to watch cartoons, movies in English because her mom also studied in USA.

So I was so amazed by her experience.

I didn't know it was possible.

- Mm.

- So I dunno, parents, they can really do their best with their children by trying to let them watch movies, cartoons in English, sing in English.

And also one thing I think is really important.

If you have money, if you have resources for that, travel with the kids.

- Yeah.

- That's really fantastic.

- Absolutely.

And that brings me to my next question actually because in addition to language, through travel and cultural exchange, we benefit in so many ways.

Tell me what it's meant to you and what benefits you think about when you think about visiting other countries.

- First, I think it opens my eyes on problems and solutions that I can bring in order to solve the problems in my country.

- Yes.

- For instance, when I was in the city council meeting, I never had that in my country.

And it's a democratic country.

I think it could be something great to implant in my country also.

It's like I can develop my critical thinking see what's working in some places and bring them to my country.

- Okay.

One benefit from you, Marial.

We have a minute left.

No pressure.

(laughs) - Okay.

There are so many benefits when you travel to different parts of the world.

There are different talents in terms of like a designer.

There are some designs you can get another country which are not in your country and you can bring it.

like Ludmille said, when I attended a council meeting, I stayed in my city for over 20 years and I've never attended a meeting.

We were never invited.

But here the public is invited to participate in their affairs.

So it is one of the things that make me feel if I go back and get the opportunity then I'll invite the public for the first time.

- Bring that to South Sudan.

- Yes.

I'll bring it to South Sudan.

And I also went to Kentucky and I saw a lot of paintings which showed the history of America.

And we don't have that.

- Yeah.

- So.

- Murals Yeah.

A lot of things.

They go with that generation because they're not documented.

- Yeah.

- Which I want to bring to my country.

So that's one of the advantages.

- So wonderful.

Marial and Ludmille, thank you so much for being here with us today.

- We thank you too.

- Thank you.

I am grateful for that because information is key and whenever I have the opportunity to share information it's great for me.

- Well, I am grateful to have met both of you.

Thank you so much.

Appreciate it.

Thank you for being with us.

That is Eye on Education.

For all of us at WSIU, I'm Fred Martino.

Thanks for being here and have a great week.

(contemporary music)