♪.

TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," A LOOK AT TELEHEALTH AND HOW IT'S CHANGED ACCESS TO MEDICAL CARE.

TED: AND AUTHOR LAURIE NOTARO HAS A CRIME NOVEL ON THE TRUE CRIME MURDERESS WINNIE RUTH JUDD.

NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

.

TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

CHECK OF HEADLINES, WORLD NEWS, THE U.S.

SENT A LETTER TO ISRAEL DEMANDING AID TO GAZA MUST INCREASE AND MUST INCREASE THE WORLD HUMANITARIAN SITUATION.

>> WE KNOW THAT IT'S POSSIBLE TO GET HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE INTO GAZA.

WE KNOW IT CAN BE DONE.

IT IS INCUMBENT UPON THE GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL TO SURMOUNT THE CHALLENGES AND GET ASSISTANCE IN.

TED: EXPRESSED OPPOSITION TO ISRAEL'S BOMBING CAMPAIGN IN LEBANON.

>> WE HAVE MADE CLEAR THAT WE OPPOSE THE BOMBING CAMPAIGN THEY'VE BEEN LAUNCHING IN RECENT WEEKS.

WE'LL CONTINUE TO WATCH IT CAREFULLY.

THERE ARE SPECIFIC STRIKES THAT IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE FOR ISRAEL TO CARRY OUT, BUT HAD IT COMES TO THE SCOPE AND NATURE OF THE BOMBING CAMPAIGN IN BEIRUT, SOMETHING WE MADE CLEAR TO THE GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL WE HAD CONCERNS WITH AND WERE OPPOSED TO.

TED: ASSURED THE U.S.

IT WOULD LIMIT RETALIATORY STRIKES AGAINST IRAN, SAYING THE ATTACKS WOULD BE FOLKED ON LATEST MILITARY TARGETS.

>>> U.S.

SENATOR KYRSTEN SINEMA SPILLED OVER $215,000 BETWEEN JULY AND SEPTEMBER, SINEMA'S CAMPAIGN PAID $152,000 FOR SECURITY-RELATED EXPENSES.

SINEMA, NOT RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION, BILLED FOR EXPENSES TO FRANCE, JAPAN AND THE UK.

PAID FOR BY HER CAMPAIGN.

>>> ONE IN FIVE ADULTS IN THE U.S. ARE AFFLICTED WITH LONELINESS, THE HIGHEST LEVEL IN TWO YEARS.

FEELINGS OF LONELINESS HAVE IMPROVED BUT 20% EXPERIENCED LONELINESS ON A DAILY BASIS.

THOSE WHO LIKE WHAT THEY DO AND FEEL PRODUCTIVE ARE LESS LIKELY TO EXPERIENCE LONELINESS.

>>> A COMPREHENSIVE SURVEY BY THE FUTURE FOR ARIZONA SHARED PUBLIC VALUES AND MOST AFFECT ARIZONANS EVERYDAY LIVES.

HEALTH CARE WAS AMONG THE SHARED VALUES AND TELEHEALTH BECAME POPULAR DURING THE PANDEMIC AND CONTINUES TO GROW.

HONORHEALTH HOSPITAL GROUP SAID IT HANDLED TELEHEALTH VISITS AND THE 21st CENTURY HOUSE CALL IS FOR MANY, WHAT THE DOCTOR ORDERED.

>> ARE YOU ON YOUR FEET A LOT, REGULARLY?

>> Reporter: FOR MOST OF US, THIS IS WHAT WE THINK OF WHEN IT COMES TO A DOCTOR'S VISIT.

>> WITH YOUR ANKLES, IF YOU CAN DRAW THE ABCs.

>> Reporter: A GROWING NUMBER OF PATIENTS AND DOCTORS ARE UTILIZING TELEHEALTH.

>> TELEHEALTH IS THE ABILITY TO SEE YOUR DOCTOR THROUGH AUDIO OR VIDEO WITHOUT PHYSICALLY HAVING TO BE THERE IN THE CLINIC.

>> Reporter: SINCE THE PANDEMIC, DR. SHAD MARVASTI HAS BEEN USING TELEHEALTH MORE AND MORE.

>> CAN BE GREAT FOR CHRONIC CONDITIONS LIKE DIABETES, ESPECIALLY IF THEY'RE SEEN AS NEEDED ON CERTAIN COMPONENTS.

TELEHEALTH IS USEFUL IN THE CASES OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE CHALLENGES WITH TRANSPORTATION OR SINGLE PARENTS OR OTHERS STRUGGLING TO BE ABLE TO WITNESS EVERYTHING IN THEIR LIFE AND GET THEMSELVES TO THE DOCTOR'S OFFICE.

WE'RE SEEING TELEHEALTH IMPLEMENTED IN MENTAL HEALTH NOW, WHERE MENTAL HEALTH IS LACKING IN THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM, BEING ABLE TO DO VIDEOS FOR MENTAL HEALTH COUNSELING WHERE YOU DON'T NEED A PHYSICAL EXAM, YOU NEED THE ONE-ON-ONE CAN BE POWERFUL.

>> Reporter: INEQUITIES IN ACCESS ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE IN RURAL COMMUNITIES THAT MAY NOT HAVE A DOCTOR NEARBY.

THERE ARE DIFFERENT TYPES OF TELEHEALTH VISITS WITH A PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIAN, BUT THOSE WITH COLD AND FLU SYMPTOMS CAN DO IT WITH AN URGENT CARE PROVIDER.

>> THEY NEED TO BE ASSESSED AND THE DECISION CAN BE MADE AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THEY NEED TO COME IN FOR A VISIT OR ALLOW OR CAN BE TREATED THROUGH THE TELEHEALTH VISIT.

>> GOOD TO SIGH AS WELL, HOPE YOU HAVE GOOD NEWS FOR ME.

>> Reporter: A TELEHEALTH VISIT IS SIMILAR TO A REGULAR VISIT.

THE DOCTOR CAN PRESCRIBE OR CHANGE MEDICATION.

>> THE MAIN DIFFERENCE REALLY IS NOT BEING -- HAVING THAT PHYSICAL TOUCH IN TERMS OF GETTING VITALS.

IN SOME SETTINGS OF TELEHEALTH, WE'LL ASK IF THEY HAVE A HOME BLOOD PRESSURE MONITOR, AND PULSE OXIMETER, IF THERE'S A REASON TO COME IN, WE CAN MAKE AN APPOINTMENT TO BE SEEN IN THE OFFICE, BUT HELPS TO INCREASE CONNECTIVITY TO CARE.

>> Reporter: AND HELPS WITH WHITE COAT SYNDROME.

THE NERVOUS FEELING THE PATIENTS GET WHEN THE DOCTOR WALKS INTO THE EXAM ROOM.

>> YOU GET TO SEE THEM IN A COMFORTABLE SETTING.

THEY'RE NOT HURRIED TO GET HERE.

THAT HELPS WITH THE RAPPORT AS WELL.

IF I'M NOT A PERSON, THAT'S A DISCONNECT, BUT MORE CONVENIENT, MORE ACCESSIBLE, YOU'RE IN A MORE CONVENIENT PLACE AND HAVE A MORE MEANINGFUL CONNECTION.

>> Reporter: AND IT'S CHANGED HIM TO A DIFFERENT POSITION.

>> PUSHED ME TO THINGS I NEED TO DO IN PERSON, VERSUS WHAT I'M DOING WITH THE INTERACTION OF THE PATIENTS AND HOW IMPACTFUL THIS CAN BE ON PATIENTS, HOW MUCH I CAN GET DONE AND THEY CAN FEEL A SENSE OF CONVENIENCE AND THEN BE EMPOWERED TO DO THINGS.

THAT'S EYE OPENING TO ME.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN, THANK YOU.

BYE-BYE.

TED: DR. MARVASTI WOULD LIKE TO SEE COMPLETE REIMBURSEMENT SO PATIENTS WITH BE ON PAR WITH A TRADITIONAL OFFICE VISIT AND WANTS TO SEE SIMILAR TO ANYWHERE IN THE COUNTRY WHERE PATIENTS CAN DO TELEHEALTH WITH ANY DOCTOR IN THE COUNTRY.

WE WELCOME WILL HUMBLE, ARIZONA DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC HEALTH ASSOCIATION.

WHAT ARE YOUR GENERAL THOUGHTS ON TELEHEALTH?

>> SO GLAD THAT NOT JUST MEDICARE AND MEDICAID BUT OTHER PAYORS ARE EMBRACING IT.

MOST PAYORS WERE RELUCTANT TO REIMBURSE FOR ANY TELEHEALTH.

WHEN IT OBAMA A -- BECAME A NECESSITY DURING THE COVID PANDEMIC, IT WAS A NECESSITIES IN TERMS OF PATIENT SATISFACTION AND BEING ABLE TO MANAGE PATIENTS MORE EASILY AND REMOVING BARRIERS LIKE TRANSPORTATION, PROVIDING BETTER ACCESS IN RURAL PARTS OF STATE, ET CETERA.

TED: I WAS GOING TO SAY, IN RURAL AREAS, THIS IS A BIG DEAL.

>> IMAGINE YOU ARE SOMEBODY IN SIERRA VISTA AND YOU ARE IN TUCSON.

A DOCTOR VISIT BECOMES A DAILY ORDEAL.

FOR CERTAIN VISITS AND DR. MARVASTI SAID IT IS NOT APPROPRIATE FOR EVERYTHING, SOMETIMES YOU NEED TO COME IN, BUT HELPS MAKE IT EASIER FOR THE PATIENT TO NOT TAKE A DAY OFF THE WORK, SOMETIMES ELDERLY PATIENTS SHOULDN'T BE ON THE INTERSTATE.

IT'S SUPER HELPFUL.

TED: IN ALMOST EVERY CIRCUMSTANCE AND SITUATION, ALWAYS BETTER THAN NO VISIT AT ALL.

>> CORRECT, AND PART OF IT IS DOING TRIAGE.

YOU CAN FIGURE OUT, THIS IS SOMETHING WE CAN MANAGE THIS WAY.

CHANGE YOUR MEDICATION, ASK FOR A BLOOD TEST, SEND THE RESULTS IN AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THE PHYSICAL DRIVING.

IT HELPS, ESPECIALLY IN RURAL AREAS WHY, DRIVE -- AND NOT JUST THE DRIVING, BUT A LACK OF PSYCHIATRISTS AND OTHER PRACTITIONERS IN RURAL PARTS OF THE STATE THAT MAKE IT SO IT'S NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE IN PLACES TO GET AN APPOINTMENT THAT YOU NEED.

TED: THE SHORTAGE OF PHYSICIANS IS REAL.

>> RIGHT.

TED: MEDICARE, TELEHEALTH, WHERE DO WE STAND?

WHERE IS THAT HEADED?

>> BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, THERE WAS HARDLY ANY TELEHEALTH AT ALL.

BEHAVIORAL HEALTH VISITS BUT MADE THE PATIENT GO TO A TELEHEALTH STUDIO.

DURING THE PANDEMIC, THEY WERE LIKE THAT'S NOT GOING TO WORK ANYMORE.

WE'RE GOING TO ALLOW PATIENCE, LIKE ON THE CLIP, DOING THE VISIT ON ZOOM OR SOMETHING IN THEIR HOUSE, AND SO THAT BECAME THE NORM DURING THE PANDEMIC, AND BOTH AND MEDICARE SAW THE REAL VALUE OF THAT.

SO WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW IS AT THE END OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY, TELEHEALTH WAS GOING TO END, GOING TO GO TO THE OLD WAY.

CONGRESS REAUTHORIZED IT.

BUT THE DEADLINE IS DECEMBER 31 OF THIS YEAR.

IF CONGRESS DOESN'T DO ANYTHING BEFORE THE END OF THE YEAR, WE'RE GOING TO GO BACK TO PRE-PANDEMIC LEVEL, BUT PEOPLE HAVE GOTTEN USED, PATIENTS AND PHYSICIANS HAVE GOTTEN USED TO THE NEW WAY OF MANAGING PATIENT CARE.

TED: IS THERE ANYTHING PRE-PANDEMIC THAT WOULD BE COVERED BY MEDICARE?

CERTAIN ASPECTS?

>> YEAH, BEHAVIORAL HEALTH.

CERTAIN BEHAVIORAL HEALTH VISITS WOULD BE COVERED BUT WOULDN'T INCLUDE THE ENTIRE SCOPE WHICH IS SO VALUABLE, NOT JUST MENTAL HEALTH, WE TALKED ABOUT CHRONIC CONDITION VISITS AS WELL.

TED: IT COULD DRIVE UP SPENDING AND THAT IT COULD IN SOME WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM IMPACT QUALITY.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?

>> WELL, YES, THE STUDY, DURING THE PANDEMIC, WAS 0.8%, LESS THAN 1% INCREASE IN MEDICARE COSTS BECAUSE OF TELEHEALTH BUT DOESN'T INCLUDE EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT VISITS AND HOSPITALIZATIONS WHICH IS THE OFFSET.

IF YOU HAVE MORE PRIMARY CARE VISITS, ALL THE STUDIES SHOW YOU'RE GOING TO REDUCE EXPENSIVE HOSPITALIZATIONS AND EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT VISITS.

SO IT'S PROBABLY SOMETHING LIKE A WASH BUT THE STUDY HASN'T BEEN COMPLETED YET.

THERE ARE LEGITIMATE CONCERNS ABOUT DOCTORS, SOME DOCTORS, NOT PEOPLE LIKE DR. MARVASTI, BUT SOME WHO DECIDE IT'S CHEAPER TO DO, I CAN SEE MORE PATIENTS ON TELEHEALTH, AND I CAN GET THE REVENUE AND MAKE MORE MONEY, BUT COMES AT A COST TO SOME OF THE PATIENTS, SO YOU NEED TO HAVE -- SO MY ADVOCACY IS TO DO SOMETHING, CALLED THE CONNECT ACT, IT DOESN'T JUST EXTEND THE PANDEMIC TYPE OF TELEHEALTH BUT INCLUDES MORE POSITIONS TO FERRET OUT AND IDENTIFY FRAUD AND TO MAKE SURE THAT THE TELEHEALTH VISITS ARE FOCUSED ON THE APPROPRIATE KINDS OF VISITS, NOT JUST ANY OLD THING.

TED: WHAT ABOUT STANDARD TELEHEALTH LICENSING SYSTEM DOES, THAT MAKE SENSE AS WELL?

>> YOU PROVIDE MORE TOOLS TO IDENTIFY FRAUD AND PROVIDE THE LICENSING PROVISION YOU ARE DISCUSSING AND MAKE SURE THAT THE TELEHEALTH VISITS ARE FOCUSED ON THOSE TYPE OF VISITS THAT ARE APPROPRIATE FOR TELEHEALTH.

TED: IS THE SITUATION RIGHT NOW AS CONGRESS SITS RIGHT NOW, AMENABLE TO THIS EXTENSION?

>> THE CONNECT ACT IS BIPARTISAN, THERE'S A LOT OF BIPARTISAN SUPPORT FOR THE MORE COMPREHENSIVE PACKAGE.

BUT IN AN ELECTION YEAR LIKE THIS, IS IT GOING TO GET OVER THE LINE?

MY FEAR, IS I DON'T THINK THERE'S A DANGER OF TELEHEALTH GOING OUT OF THE WAY, WHAT WE NEED SAY MORE COMPREHENSIVE PACKAGE TO MAKE IT MORE SUSTAINABLE AND FOCUSED.

WE LEARNED A LOT DURING THE PANDEMIC AND THE CONNECT ACT SAYS NOW WE'VE LEARNED A LOT ABOUT THIS, THIS IS THE WAY WE WANT TO DO IT, AND IT'S A MORE COMPLETE PACKAGE, I HOPE THEY PASS THAT STED OF DOING ANOTHER CONNECTION.

TED: KICKING THE CAN IS MORE THAN ADIOS.

WHERE DOES MEDICARE FIT INTO ALL THIS?

>> AHCCCS BEGINS TO EMBRACE TELEHEALTH DURING THE PANDEMIC, IT'S STILL GOING UNDER THE HOBBS ADMINISTRATIONS ARE SO THEY'VE GOT GOOD CONTROLS, A DIFFERENT PROGRAM THAN MEDICARE BUT AHCCCS HAS BEEN EMBRACING IT AND GOT A GOOD PROGRAM GOING IN.

THERE'S A LOT OF ARE PATIENTS AND SURVEYS SHOW PEOPLE LIKE THIS, NOT JUST MEDICARE.

TED: ALL GOOD THINGS TELEHEALTH.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> THANKS.

.

TED: THE STORY OF WINNIE RUTH JUDD IS ONE OF THE MOST SENSATIONAL TRUE CRIME SAGAS.

JUDD WAS ACCUSED OF MURDERING TWO FRIENDS AND STUFFING THEIR BODIES IN TRUNKS AND OTHER LUGGAGE AND TRANSPORTED TO CALIFORNIA.

THE SENTENCE WAS REPEALED WHEN SHE WAS FOUND MENTALLY INCOMPETENT.

END OF STORY?

HARDLY.

THE NEW NOVEL IS TITLED "THE MURDERESS."

IN THIS NOVEL, WE HEAR FROM RUTH JUDD.

AND WE WELCOME LAURIE NOTARO BACK TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

IN THIS NOVEL, FIRST OF ALL, I WILL GET THERE IN A SECOND.

OF ALL THE THINGS TO WRITE ABOUT, WHY WINNIE RUTH JUDD?

>> YOU REMEMBER IN DAYS GONE BY, I WAS ACTUALLY A REPORTER, WASN'T ALWAYS A HUMOR COLUMNIST.

WE AS FELLOW JOURNALISTS, YOU WANT TO KNOW THE STORY BEHIND THE STORY.

I FIGURE I THINK THERE'S MORE TO THIS.

I REALLY WANT TO GET INTO HER HEAD, SHE'S SUCH A PRETTY WOMAN AND SO WELL VERSED.

WHAT MAKES SOMEONE LIKE THAT WHO LOOKS LIKE ME AND YOU, KILL HER TWO BEST FRIENDS.

TED: WAS THERE A MOMENT, A LIGHTBULB GOING ON, AN AH-HAH MOMENT, YOUR FRIEND IS VERY MUCH INVOLVED IN THE STORY.

WAS THERE SOMETHING THAT SAID OKAY, WE'RE ON THIS THING?

>> THERE WAS.

IN 2014, I WENT UNDER THE ASSUMPTION IT WAS SELF-DEFENSE, I WANTED TO BELIEVE THAT, BUT WANTED TO FIGURE OUT WHY AND HOW THINGS SPUN SO MADLY OUT OF CONTROL.

AND TED, I WAS ONLY THERE FOR 15 MINUTES WHEN I SAW THE AUTOPSY REPORT.

THE VICTIMS HAD STIP LING ON THEIR GUN WOUNDS AND THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN, THAT'S A DIRECT SHOT.

I TALKED TO PHOENIX POLICE, THAT'S A DIRECT SHOT.

THAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HAVE THE MUZZLE OF A GUN AGAINST SOMEONE'S TEMPLE.

TED: AND WE HAVE A CONFESSION LETTER, A CONTROVERSIAL CONFESSION LETTER IN SOME QUARTERS, BUT A CONFESSION LETTER.

>> THAT AROSE IN 2014.

IT HAD BEEN IN THE TUCSON, ARIZONA HISTORICAL SOCIETY, AND THE INSANITY LAWYER FOR I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY DECADES, AND ROBERT PAILA HAD BEEN DOWN THERE, SEE IF THERE'S ANYTHING NEW IN THE RUTH JUDD FILE, AND LO AND BEHOLD THERE WAS THIS CONFESSION LETTER.

TED: THE CONFESSION ALL RIGHT, WAS IT NEW OR USED?

THERE HAS TO BE AUTHENTICITY DOES, THERE NOT?

>> THINGS CONTRADICT TRUTH.

THERE WAS A TRUTH.

BUT I THINK SHE DID THAT HOLDING OUT HOPE HE WOULD SAVE HER, BUT THE TRAIN OF THOUGHT YOU CAN SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN THE LETTER IS THE ONLY THING THAT FITS THE EVIDENCE.

TED: YEAH, THE RESEARCH ON THIS, IT'S A GREAT READ, YOU CAN TELL YOU DID A LOT OF RESEARCH ON THIS.

DID YOU FIND YOURSELF GETTING BURIED ON THIS?

>> THERE WAS A LOT.

I DID MY OWN RESEARCH AND I WAS HELPED.

ROBERT PAILA, MY COLLEAGUE, WHO FOUND THE CONFESSION LETTERS IS CLOSE FRIENDS WITH SONNY WAREL, ONE OF THE VICTIM'S GREAT NIECES.

SHE WAS A NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF HEALTH LIBRARIAN, SHE KNEW HER STUFF.

SHE SPENT 30 YEARS DOCUMENTING EVERYTHING SHE COULD GET ABOUT THIS CASE.

I NEVER GOT TO MEET HER.

SHE TIED IN 2014 OF PANCREATIC CANCER AND SONNY'S MOTHER GAVE HER THE ARCHIVES AND ROBERT GAVE IT TO ME.

TED: AND OFF YOU GO, BUT OFF YOU GO ON A TRUE CRIME NOVEL.

WHY THAT APPROACH?

>> YEAH, I WANTED TO APPROACH IT MUCH LIKE IN COLD BLOOD WHERE, WE'RE TELLING A NARRATIVE.

I WANTED TO GET INTO RUTH'S HEAD.

I WANTED TO SEE WHAT SHE WAS THINKING, FEELING, AND THAT WAS REALLY THE ONLY WAY I CAN DO IT.

YOU KNOW, LIKE NONFICTION BOOKS HAVE BEEN DONE ALREADY, I DIDN'T WANT TO REDO THAT.

I WANTED TO TELL THE NARRATIVE OF THIS WOMAN AND WHAT MADE HER BECOME A MURDERESS.

TED: BUT IN DOING THAT, YOU HAD TO, IN LOTS OF WAYS, SHAPES AND FORMS HERE, BECOME WINNIE RUTH, WE HEAR FROM WINNIE RUTH JUDD, WE'RE HEARING FROM YOU AND WINNIE RUTH.

WAS IT A TWILIGHT THING WHERE SHE WAS BECOMING YOU?

>> IT WAS TERRIBLE.

I OUTLINED THE BOOK, PUT OFF WRITING IT AS LONG AS I COULD, I KNEW IT WASN'T GOING TO BE A FUN TIME AND WROTE A MAJORITY OF THE BOOK IN 40 DAYS.

I HAD TO GET THERE AND GET OUT.

IT WAS TERRIBLE.

IT WAS NOT A GOOD PLACE TO BE.

IT WAS ANXIOUS, DARK, IT WAS AWFUL, I HAD NIGHTMARES EVERY NIGHT.

WHEN I FINISH A BOOK, I'M SAD.

BUT WITH THIS ONE, I COULDN'T WAIT TO GET IT AWAY FROM ME, AND I SENT IT TO THE EDITOR AND SAID I DON'T WANT TO SEE IT FOR 90 DAYS.

TED: A RAVING LUNATIC CAN BE DESCRIBED IN MANY WAYS.

THIS IS A WOMAN WHO IT A GREAT JOB, A HUSBAND, GREAT CONCERNS ABOUT BEING A MOM AND HAD CHILDREN AND ALL SORTS OF THINGS.

IT'S NOT LIKE SHE WOKE UP AND SAID WHO CAN I KILL AND STUFF INTO A LUGGAGE?

>> NO, I BELIEVE SHE WAS A VICTIM OF MENTAL HEALTH IN THE 30s WHERE WE DIDN'T HAVE A WORD FOR DEPRESSION LET ALONE BIPOLAR OR HOW TO TREAT IT.

SHE WAS PRETTY MUCH ON HER OWN DEALING WITH THESE THINGS AND ASBAITED THESE THINGS IN HER LIVES.

SHE COULDN'T SLEEP SO SHE WAS TAKING A LOT OF LUMINOL AND THE WHEELS FELL OFF THE CART AND HER TWO BEST FRIENDS TIED.

TED: I'M READING THIS, I KNOW YOU, IT'S YOU, BUT I'M READING THIS, AND HAD TO BE DIFFICULT.

YOU HAD TO, FOR 40 DAYS, YOU HAD TO WALK AROUND IN HER SHOES?

>> LIKE PUTTING ON HER DRESS OR HER SKIN, NOT TO BE GROSS, BUT HAD TO START THINKING, IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND AND TO FEEL WHAT SHE FELT, LIKE HAVING THE LIVE WIRE STUCK IN THE MIDDLE OF YOU AND BEING ANXIOUS.

I'M TRYING TO MEADE A DEADLINE SO I'M ANXIOUS, BUT GOING THROUGH WHAT IS NOT A PLEASANT EXPERIENCE.

TED: BEING AS CLOSE TO HER AS YOU ARE IN THIS NOVEL, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF HER?

>> I FEEL TERRIBLE FOR HER.

I SYMPATHIZE WITH HER.

AT THE SAME TIME, I DON'T FORGIVE HER.

SHE KILLED TWO VIBRANT PEOPLE WHO HAD THEIR WHOLE LIVES IN FRONT OF HER, AND IT WAS BECAUSE SHE COULDN'T GET THE HELP SHE NEEDED.

SHE DID TAKE MATTERS INTO HER OWN HANDS AND DID, IT SHE WAS NOT IN THE RIGHT STATE OF MIND.

SHE WASN'T AS SANE AS YOU AND I ARE RIGHT NOW, HOPEFULLY, BUT DIDN'T THINK ABOUT THE SECOND VICTIM.

SHE JUST WENT IN FOR THE FIRST VICTIM.

IT WASN'T IN HER FRAME OF MIND THAT SHE WOULD HAVE TO KILL A WITNESS.

THAT'S HOW OUT OF THE BOX THE THING WAS, IT WAS CRAZY.

TED: ON OCTOBER 20th, HOSTING A PANEL WITH OTHER HISTORIANS AT THE CRESCENT BALLROOM, WHAT IS IT ABOUT THIS CASE THAT KEEPS -- IT'S ALMOST 100 YEARS OLD NOW.

>> IT IS.

TED: WHAT IS SO FASCINATING ABOUT THAT?

>> THE HISTORIANS ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THAT, WHY DOES IT HAVE ITS TEETH INTO PHOENIX.

THE PLAYWRIGHT AND DIRECTOR ARE ON THE PANEL.

I THINK I GOT TO AS CLOSE AS I CAN WITH THE MATERIALS THAT I HAD, WHO KNOWS WHAT'S GOING TO SURFACE IN THE NEXT 20 YEARS.

IS THERE A DIARY IN JACK HALLERAN'S HOUSE.

TED: HE WAS THE BOYFRIEND BUT WE HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH HE WAS INVOLVED.

CONGRATULATIONS.

WHAT'S NEXT, BOB CRANE CONFIDENTIAL, WHAT'S NEXT FOR YOU?

>> GOING BACK TO HUMOR NEXT TIME, YES, YES.

ANOTHER HUMOR BOOK ABOUT MORE ADVENTURES IN MIDDLE AGE BUT TRYING TO WRITE THIS BOOK FOR TEN YEARS AND IT'S OUT AND I'M DELIGHTED.

TED: CONGRATULATIONS, IT'S A GREAT READ AND CONTINUED SUCCESS, WE'RE ALL PROUD OF YOU.

>> THANK YOU, TED.

TED: THANK YOU.

THAT IS IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.