>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, THE FEDS DECISION TO END OIL AND GAS LEASES IN THE 10-MILE SURROUNDING CHACO PARK, AND THE OPPOSING NATIVE PERSPECTIVES IN THE AFTERMATH.

PLUS -- >> Kevin: WE HAVE THE BIG CELEBRATION SATURDAY JUNE 24 PRIDE ON THE PLAZA WHICH WILL BE THE BIGGEST PRIDE THAT SANTA FE HAS PROBABLY EVER SEEN THIS YEAR.

>> Gene: THREE DECADES OF PRIDE IN SANTA FE.

WHY ORGANIZERS SAY THIS YEAR WILL BE BIGGER THAN EVER AND AN UPDATE ON THE STATE OF LGBQT PLUS RIGHTS IN NEW MEXICO.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I AM YOUR HOST GENE GRANT.

SANTA FE PRIDE IS CELEBRATING 30 YEARS THIS MONTH.

IN ABOUT 15 MINUTES SENIOR PRODUCER LOU DIVIZIO SPEAKS WITH KEVIN BOWAN OF THE HUMAN RIGHTS ALLIANCE TO DISCUSS HOW NEW MEXICO COMPARES TO THE REST OF THE COUNTRY WHEN IT COMES TO LGBTQ PLUS PROTECTION.

THEN IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE SHOW, OUR LAND LAURA PASKUS SITS DOWN WITH AUTHOR MICHELLE OTERO TO TALK ABOUT HER NEW BOOK AND HOW THE ACT OF WRITING CAN HEAL PAST TRAUMAS.

IN ABOUT 25 MINUTES, THE LINE OPINION PANEL AND I WILL TALK TO A PROPOSED POLICY CHANGE AT ALBUQUERQUE PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

IT FORCE ADMINISTRATORS TO DENY ENROLLMENT TO STUDENTS WITH PREVIOUS DISCIPLINARY ISSUES.

I'LL ASK OUR PANELISTS IF THE MOVE COULD PUSH MORE KIDS THROUGH THE CRACKS AND INTO THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

BUT FIRST WE HEAD TO CHACO CULTURAL NATIONAL HISTORICAL PARK WHERE A DECISION TO HALT FUTURE EXTRACTION LEASES LED TO A PROTEST THAT FORCED U.S.

CABINET SECRETARY TO RELOCATE A HOMECOMING EVENT.

LET'S GET TO THE LINE.

WELCOME TO THIS WEEK'S LINE OPINION PANELISTS.

WE'RE JOINED IN STUDIO THIS WEEK BY MERRITT ALLEN OF VOX OPTIMA PUBLIC RELATIONS.

GLAD TO HAVE HER IN.

MARTHA BURK IS ACROSS THE TABLE.

SHE IS A POLITICAL PSYCHOLOGIST AND AUTHOR AND A POD CASTER.

VERY MUCH A POD CASTER.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT LATER.

AND SHAUN GRISWOLD IS BACK, EDITOR AT SOURCE NEW MEXICO.

THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE, APPRECIATE IT.

INTERIOR SECRETARY DEB HAALAND'S RETURN TO NEW MEXICO WAS DISRUPTED LAST WEEKEND BY PROTESTERS AT CHACO PARK.

YOU MIGHT HAVE SEEN THE NEWS.

THE PLAN WAS FOR MS. HAALAND TO TALK ABOUT THE U.S.

INTERIOR DEPARTMENT'S 20 YEAR BAN ON NEW EXTRACTION LEASES ON FEDERAL LANDS WITHIN 10 MILES OF CHACO CANYON.

SECRETARY HAALAND CHANGED THE LOCATION OF THE EVENT TO ALBUQUERQUE AFTER PROTESTERS BLOCKED THE ROAD.

AND MERRITT, A GROUP OF NAVAJO NATION LANDOWNERS WHO RECEIVE FINANCIAL ROYALTIES FOR OIL AND GAS AROUND CHACO ARE UPSET OVER THE SECRETARY'S DECISION.

THEY SAY IT WILL COST THEM A CHANCE AT LEASING REVENUE BECAUSE THEIR INTERESTS ARE NOW ESSENTIALLY LOCKED OUT.

ARE THEY RIGHT?

IS THIS BASICALLY A FINANCIAL ARGUMENT AT THAT LEVEL?

>> Merritt: IT IS INTERESTING BECAUSE IT WAS SUCH A SMALL ACTION ON THE PART OF THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR.

THIS IS INTERESTING.

I READ A PIECE BY NEW MEXICO IN DEPTH ON THIS YESTERDAY.

OVER 1000 LEASES IN THE AREA, THIS ONLY AFFECTS 50 OF THEM.

SO IT IS REALLY IMPACTING A VERY SMALL AMOUNT OF POTENTIAL DRILLING ACTIVITY IN THE AREA.

AND SO I PUT ON MY FORMER GOVERNMENT PUBLIC AFFAIRS HAT AND THOUGHT ABOUT, OKAY, WHAT ARE THE OPTICS?

HERE IS THE THING, WHEN YOU ARE WORKING FOR AN EXECUTIVE AGENCY AND YOU'RE IN DC YOU ARE LOOKING THROUGH THE LENS OF THE WASHINGTON POST AND CONGRESS AND MAYBE THE NEW YORK TIMES.

AND FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, THIS LOOKS GREAT.

WE ARE SAVING CHACO CANYON.

I AM DOING MY BOSS' BIDDING.

I AM SAVING A NATIONAL LANDMARK.

I AM REDUCING THE IMPACT OF A NATIONAL -- REDUCING IMPACT OF OIL AND GAS ON A NATIONAL LANDMARK, DOING SOMETHING FOR NATIVE AMERICANS, WHAT COULD GO WRONG?

>> Gene: THAT CHECKS OFF ALL THE POSITIVE CHECKS, RIGHT?

>> Merritt: RIGHT.

AND WHAT SHE IMPOSED IS GOING TO PICK UP ON THAT STORY, THEY ARE NOT GOING TO GET THE NUANCE OF IT.

MOST PEOPLE AT THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR DO NOT CARE WHAT THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL THINKS.

SO, IT IS A REALLY GOOD WASHINGTON STORY.

PROBLEM IS, SECRETARY HAALAND IS FROM NEW MEXICO.

AND SHE IS PROBABLY GOING TO COME BACK HERE, SO THIS BOOMERANGED QUITE BADLY FOR HER.

THE NAVAJO NATION OF COURSE IS NOT DIVIDED -- IS NOT UNITED IN THEIR PERSPECTIVE.

YOU HAVE INDIVIDUAL LANDHOLDERS WHO ARE VERY UNHAPPY ABOUT THIS BECAUSE THIS IS A KEY SOURCE OF REVENUE FOR THEM, BUT YOU GOT OTHER INDIVIDUALS WHO LIVE IN THE AREA, THEIR NEIGHBORS WHO FEEL LIKE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS ARE HURTING THEM.

IT IS A STORY WHERE IT SEEMS LIKE, TRULY, NO ONE IS HAPPY.

>> Gene: THAT IS A GOOD POINT SHAUN, INTERESTINGLY THE ALL PUEBLO COUNCIL OF GOVERNORS IS VERY MUCH IN FAVOR OF THE WITHDRAWAL AS IT STANDS NOW.

I AM NOT ASKING YOU TO SPEAK TO THE OTHER SIDE OF IT BUT IT IS PRETTY CLEAR THEY FEEL THESE PROTECTIONS OF A HISTORIC SITE ARE SACROSANCT, YOU KNOW.

IS THAT HOW WE SHOULD LOOK AT THIS, AT SOME LEVEL, I MEAN, WHERE IS ALL PUEBLO COUNCIL COMING FROM IN YOUR VIEW?

>>Shaun: IT IS FASCINATING YOU BRING UP THE STORY IN THE WASHINGTON POST AND PEOPLE WHO PAID ATTENTION TO THE STORY GOT A TASTE OF INTERTRIBAL ISSUES THAT HAPPEN BETWEEN THEM THAT HAVE BEEN GOING ON BEFORE THIS WAS EVEN A STATE, BEFORE ANY FIRST CONTACT HAD HAPPENED.

PUEBLO PEOPLE AND NAVAJO PEOPLE HAVE EVEN IN THIS AREA FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS AND THERE HAVE BEEN SOME SKIRMISHES AND THERE HAVE BEEN SOME ISSUES AND THERE HAVE BEEN SOME FIGHTS.

EVEN IN THAT CHACO AREA HISTORICALLY, AND THIS IS A DIRECT LINE TO ALL OF THAT AND I THINK WHAT WE ARE SEEING OUT OF SOME OF THE LANGUAGE WITH SOME OF THE LAND IN THE AREA WAS A LITTLE BIT ALARMING AND A LITTLE BIT SURPRISING AND I THINK THAT WHAT THE STANCE ALL PUEBLO COUNCIL OF GOVERNORS IS DOING IS THAT THEY ARE LOOKING FOR TRIBAL SOLIDARITY.

THEY ARE LOOKING TO SAY, WE AS THE 19 PUEBLOS WANT TO WORK WITH OUR APACHE RELATIVES AS WELL AS PEOPLE FROM THE NAVAJO NATION, COME TOGETHER AS THEY DID DURING THE REDISTRICTING PROCESS.

AS WE SEE THEY SAY WHEN WE WORK TOGETHER WE CAN ENACT CHANGE AND WE CAN FORM PUBLIC POLICY AND SHOW POLITICAL WILL, BUT THEN WE SEE THE DIVIDE HERE.

THAT HAPPENED WITH THE DIFFERENCES IN ADMINISTRATIONS.

AS WE SAW THE NAVAJO NATION ELECTED A NEW PRESIDENT AND THIS IS A NEW ADMINISTRATION THAT HAS DIFFERENT PROCEDURES, DIFFERENT POLICIES IN PLACE, CLEARLY DIFFERENT IDEAS AND NOT ONLY THE PRESIDENT IS NEW, WE HAVE NEW SPEAKER, COUNCIL, AND A NAVAJO NATION COUNCIL, AND ONE OF THE FIRST ACTS WHEN THEY TOOK ORDER WAS TO RESCIND LEGISLATION THAT THEY PASSED IN THEIR COUNCIL THAT WAS IN SUPPORT OF A FIVE-NILE BUFFER ZONE WHICH IS HALF OF WHAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT MORATORIUM IS RIGHT NOW.

THEY RESCINDED IT TO SAY, WE DON'T WANT IT AT ALL.

THAT JUST SHOWS THAT AS OF RIGHT NOW, THE PUEBLO COUNCIL OF GOVERNORS IS LOOKING FOR TRIBAL SOLIDARITY.

JUST NOT RIGHT THERE, RIGHT NOW.

IT IS A LITTLE BIT SPLIT AND YOU ARE SEEING THAT PLAY OUT RIGHT NOW WITH THE CHACO DEBATE.

>>GENE: GOOD RECAP THERE, EXCELLENT.

MARTHA ITS CLEAR THE PROTESTERS ARE LOOKING FOR SOME KIND OF COMPROMISE.

SHAUN MENTIONED THE FIVE-MILE BUFFER VERSUS THE 10 MILE.

THAT IS A TOUGH MOVING PIECE BECAUSE IT COULD BE THREE MILES, TWO MILES, WHO KNOWS WHAT THE ACTUAL REAL NUMBER IS TO PROTECT ANYTHING, BUT THOSE WHO SUPPORT THE SECRETARY SAID THERE IS A MISUNDERSTANDING POINTING OUT THE FACT THAT EXISTING LEASES CAN REMAIN.

SEE WHAT I MEAN?

THERE IS A LOT OF -- HOW DID WE PARSE ALL THIS?

IT IS HARD TO FOLLOW THIS.

>> Martha: I DON'T THINK THEY ARE LOOKING FOR A COMPROMISE.

I THINK THEY ARE LOOKING FOR PUBLICITY AND MERRITT IS RIGHT, SOME OF THIS IS COMING OUT OF WASHINGTON.

AS WE KNOW, IMMEDIATELY, WHEN THIS CAME UP, SOME MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHO HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH NEW MEXICO JUMPED ON HAALAND SAYING THAT SHE WAS IN THE POCKET OF THE ENVIRONMENTALISTS AS IF THE PROTESTORS ARE NOT IN THE POCKET OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY OR THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY OR BOTH.

AND SO, I THINK IT IS SORT OF A TEMPEST IN A TEA POT, AS YOU SAY.

MUCH OF THE LAND IS -- THE NAVAJO WERE IN ON THE ORIGINAL AGREEMENT.

IT WASN'T AS IF THEY WERE LEFT OUT AND A LOT OF THE LAND THAT IS NOW GOING TO BE CIRCUMSCRIBED IS NOT AFFECTED.

THEIR LEASES ARE NOT AFFECTED AT ALL.

AND SO, I THINK IT WAS A BIG SHOW.

IT IS EASY TO BLOCK THAT ROAD, IF YOU HAVE BEEN UP TO CHACO, BECAUSE IT IS DAM HARD TO GET -- DARN HARD TO GET IN THERE.

>> Gene: YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET AROUND THEM, THAT IS FOR SURE.

>> Martha: AND SO, I THINK THAT THIS IS MORE A POLITICAL ISSUE THAN A REAL ISSUE ABOUT RIGHTS TO DRILL AND SO FORTH.

>> Gene: A QUICK FOLLOW-UP ON THAT, SHOULD SECRETARY HAALAND CONSIDER THAT FIVE-MILE BUFFER MORE SERIOUSLY THE FIRST TIME AROUND OR DOES DISTANCE NOT MATTER?

IT WOULD HAVE BEEN PROTEST ANYWAY.

>> Martha: I THINK IF IT WAS FIVE, THEY WOULD SAY, WE WANT ONE.

YOU KNOW.

IT HAS BEEN A NATIONAL HERITAGE SITE SINCE 1987.

IT ISN'T AS IF THIS IS NEW AND NO I DON'T THINK, YOU KNOW, YOU GIVE A LITTLE MORE A LITTLE MORE AND THEY ARE INSATIABLE.

OIL AND GAS PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO GIVE UP.

THEY ARE JUST GOING TO WANT MORE AND MORE.

>> Gene: EXACTLY.

MERRITT INTERESTINGLY, MARTHA KIND OF REFERRED TO THIS, CONGRESS -- REPUBLICAN LED CONGRESS IS REALLY AFTER SECRETARY HAALAND IN A LOT OF WAYS.

HER TIES TO AN INDIGENOUS ENVIRONMENTAL GROUP, THE COMMITTEE SAYS IT IS CONCERNED ABOUT A POSSIBLE CONFLICT OF INTEREST BECAUSE SECRETARY HAALAND'S DAUGHTER HAD PREVIOUSLY WORKED WITH THE PUEBLO ACTION ALLIANCE, SOMETHING SHAUN MENTIONED BEFORE IN A PREVIOUS APPEARANCE WITH US.

EVEN IF THEY COULD PROVE THIS, WHAT DOES IT MEAN AT THE END OF THE DAY?

IS THIS SOMETHING BAD ON MS. HAALAND.

DOES THIS MEAN CORRUPTION?

I DON'T GET WHAT THE COMMITTEE IS GOING AFTER.

>> Merritt: WHAT SECRETARY HAALAND'S FAMILY CHOOSES TO DO IS WHAT THEY CHOOSE TO DO.

BUT I DID THINK THERE HAS BEEN A DEFINITE BLURRING OF LINES AROUND THE HACK JACK AND WE JUST SAW THAT WITH THE PRESS SECRETARY.

PEOPLE ARE CAMPAIGNING ALL THE TIME NOW.

WE SEE THIS IN NEW MEXICO.

WE HAD PROBLEMS WITH THE SECRETARY OF STATE SOME OF THE EMAILS SHE WAS SENDING DURING A PREVIOUS ELECTION SEASON.

AND I THINK OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS ACTUALLY NEED TO GOVERN AND OPERATE OR GOVERNMENT AND NOT BE ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL ALL THE TIME.

SO, IF THERE IS A LITTLE CRITICISM ABOUT STUMPING TOO MUCH AND ADVOCATING A POLITICAL POSITION TOO MUCH RATHER THAN ACTUALLY ADMINISTERING THE CABINET DEPARTMENT, THAT MAY BE VALID.

THAT SAID, HOUSE REPUBLICANS -- THE HOUSE IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE MORE EMOTIONAL AND MORE VISCERAL WHETHER IT IS HOUSE REPUBLICANS OR HOUSE DEMOCRATS IN THE MAJORITY.

SO, OF COURSE THERE IS SOME EMOTION BEHIND THESE CHARGES.

>> Gene: LET ME ASK YOU SHAUN, WESTERN ENERGY ALLIANCE SAYS MS. HAALAND AND HER SENIOR OFFICIALS HAVE GRANTED SPECIAL ACCESS TO PUEBLO ACTION ALLIANCE AND ITS ALLIES TO HELP A GROUP OF LOBBY MEMBERS OF CONGRESS.

THAT IS A LITTLE ICKY.

LIKE, HOW BAD IS BAD WHEN IT COMES TO LOBBYING?

DOES IT SOUND AWFUL TO YOU?

IS THIS SOMETHING THAT NEEDS INVESTIGATION?

WHAT IS YOUR SENSE OF THAT?

>> Shaun: I WONDER WHERE WERE THESE REPUBLICANS WITH THE LAST INTERIOR SECRETARY.

AND THEIR TIGHT OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY AND PREVIOUS SECRETARIES AS WELL.

INTERESTING NOW THAT YOU HAVE THROWING STONES AT SOMEBODY WHO IS NOW CARING FOR ENVIRONMENTALIST CONCERNS WHEN OIL AND GAS DOMINATES THAT DEPARTMENT.

I ALWAYS LIKE TO LOOK AT LAYERS OF WHAT IS HAPPENING UNDERNEATH.

WHAT IS SIGNIFICANT TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT THE BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT IS ALSO WORKING ON CREATING TRIBAL CONSULTATION EFFORTS ON NEW OIL AND GAS LEASES AS WELL AS OTHER PUBLIC LAND EFFORTS.

I WONDER TOO IF OIL AND GAS IS CONCERNED THAT MORE TRIBES ACROSS THE COUNTRY WILL EITHER DELAY, BLOCK OR PREVENT MORE OIL AND GAS EXPLORATIONS IN OTHER AREAS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> Gene: THIS IS INTERESTING.

OUR NATION IS WATCHING THIS SCENARIO.

WITH PLANS, PERHAPS, THIS IS INTERESTING.

>> Shaun: THE BLM IS CURRENTLY -- THIS IS A DEPARTMENT THAT IS UNDER THE INTERIOR SO THIS IS, YOU KNOW, AN INITIATIVE FROM INTERIOR, SORRY, SECRETARY HAALAND.

AND WHAT IT IS, IT'S FOR THE FIRST TIME PROVIDING CONSULTATION FROM TRIBAL COMMUNITIES WHO ARE IN AREAS WHERE BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT OPERATES PUBLIC LAND, WHETHER FOR OIL AND GAS OR RECREATION OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT.

AND ESSENTIALLY YOU'RE BRINGING TRIBAL COMMUNITIES TO THE TABLE FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME AND IT IS CONSULTATION.

IT IS ALMOST -- NOT EVEN MUCH CONSULTATION.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO FOLLOW THE CONSULTATION, BUT TO ME I WONDER IF THERE IS A CONCERN FROM OIL AND GAS INDIVIDUALS THAT OTHER TRIBAL NATIONS WHO DO OPPOSE OIL AND GAS IN A MORE STRICT AND SOLIDARITY TYPE OF WAY WILL STOP SOME OF THESE DEVELOPMENT EFFORTS.

THIS ALSO GOES TO SHOW, AS WE SEE WITH NAVAJO NATION, NOT ALL TRIBAL COMMUNITIES ARE OPPOSED TO OIL AND GAS OPERATIONS.

SOME OF THE LARGEST OIL AND GAS OPERATORS ARE NATIVE AMERICAN TRIBES IN THE COUNTRY.

THAT IS ALSO WHAT WE ARE SEEING HERE.

WE ARE SEEING THE VARIOUS DYNAMICS THAT NATIVE AMERICAN COMMUNITIES ARE NOT A MONOLITH.

WE ARE VERY DIVERSE AND HAVE DIFFERENT INTERESTS AND DIFFERENT WAYS OF MAKING MONEY.

>> Gene: 30 SECONDS OR LESS, WHEN MS. HAALAND WAS APPOINTED INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES SAW IT AS A MAJOR WIN, CERTAINLY, HOPES WERE SUPER HIGH AND NOW WE HAVE THIS SITUATION.

DOES THIS PROTEST HELP SHAPE THE PERCEPTION OF MS. HAALAND HERE IN NEW MEXICO?

DOES IT DO ANYTHING ABOUT HER STANDING HERE AT ALL WITH LOCALS?

>> Martha: I DON'T THINK SO.

I THINK SHE HAS DONE A GOOD JOB.

MOST PEOPLE REALIZE THAT.

THEY ARE DELIGHTED WE HAVE A NEW MEXICO CITIZEN WHO IS ALSO AN INDIGENOUS PERSON.

THAT IS A FIRST.

AND, WE NEED THAT FOR THE STATE.

IN TERMS OF THE -- DID YOU SAY GRANTING LOBBYING, YOU KNOW, I SPENT 30 YEARS IN WASHINGTON IN THE BELLY OF THE BEAST, YOU DON'T GRANT LOBBYING.

YOU GO AND TRY TO KNOCK ON THE DOOR AND MAYBE YOU CAN GET IN AND MAYBE NOT, BUT SHE DOESN'T HAVE THE REALLY ABILITY TO GRANT LOBBYING.

>> Gene: SEE HOW IT PLAYS OUT.

REPRESENTATION IS AN INTERESTING THING BUT AROUND HERE SHE IS DOING WHAT SHE CAN.

ABSOLUTELY.

THANKS TO OUR LINE OPINION PANEL.

NEXT WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS CORRESPONDENT ANTONIA GONZALES SITS DOWN WITH A FORMER PUEBLO GOVERNOR FOR REACTION TO THE CHACO PARK WITHDRAWAL.

AS FOR THE LINE PANEL, WE'LL BE BACK HERE AT THE DESK TO TALK ABOUT A NEW PROPOSAL FROM ALBUQUERQUE PUBLIC SCHOOLS THAT COULD BLOCK STUDENTS WITH PAST DISCIPLINARY ISSUES FROM ENROLLING IN DISTRICT'S SCHOOLS.

>> Michelle: I THINK THE WRITING PROCESS ACTUALLY REALLY PARALLELS THE HEALING PROCESS WHERE INITIALLY WE JUST, BLAH, JUST LIKE SPIT OUT, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER THAT PROCESS IS, LIKE, AS MANY WORDS AS WE CAN, ESPECIALLY FOR WRITING.

LIKE I AM MOST FAMILIAR WITH CREATIVE NONFICTION AND POETRY BUT I THINK IF YOU'RE DOING ANY FORM OF WRITING, THAT IS ABOUT JUST GETTING THE STORY OUT.

>> Gene: IT IS THE 30TH ANNIVERSARY OF PRIDE CELEBRATIONS IN NEW MEXICO'S CAPITOL CITY.

SANTA FE IS MARKING THE OCCASION WITH A SERIES OF EVENTS THAT WILL ECLIPSE ANY PREVIOUS PRIDE FESTIVITIES.

THIS WEEK NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS SENIOR PRODUCER LOU DIVIZIO SPEAKS WITH EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF SANTA FE HUMAN RIGHTS ALLIANCE, KEVIN BOWEN, TO ASK ABOUT BEEFED UP SECURITY FOR THIS YEAR'S EVENT.

AND WHY NEW MEXICO CONTINUES CONTINUES TO BE A WELCOMING PLACE FOR THE LGBTQ PLUS COMMUNITY.

>> Lou: KEVEN BOWEN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE HUMAN RIGHTS ALLIANCE IN SANTA FE, THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME HERE ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

>> Kevin: THANK YOU FOR THE INVITATION, APPRECIATE IT.

>> Lou: IT IS PRIDE MONTH AND YOUR GROUP JUST DECLARED A STATE OF EMERGENCY, FIRST EVER FOR THE ALLIANCE IN RESPONSE TO A FLOOD OF ANTI-LGBTQ LEGISLATION AROUND THE COUNTRY.

I KNOW IT HASN'T GOTTEN TO NEW MEXICO YET.

THAT HASN'T BEEN THE CASE HERE BUT I WANT TO START WITH WHERE YOU THINK THE STATE OF LGBTQ RIGHTS ARE IN THE U.S.

RIGHT NOW AS WE HEAD INTO THE MID POINT OF PRIDE MONTH.

>> Kevin: WHERE WE ARE REALLY WHEN YOU SAID THERE WAS A STATE OF EMERGENCY DECLARED, THAT WAS THROUGH THE HUMAN RIGHTS CAMPAIGN WHICH IS A NATIONAL ORGANIZATION THAT WORKS WITH ADVOCACY IN PROMOTING EQUAL RIGHTS AND JUSTICE FOR THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY AND WHERE WE ARE IS IN A PRETTY DANGEROUS PLACE EXCEPT FOR STATES LIKE NEW MEXICO AND CALIFORNIA AND MICHIGAN AND SEVERAL OTHERS.

THE REASON WHY THEY DECLARED A STATE OF EMERGENCY IS BECAUSE THIS YEAR ALONE 525 BILLS THAT WERE ANTI-LGBTQ PLUS WERE INTRODUCED INTO STATE LEGISLATIVE BODIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

NOT ALL OF THEM ARE PASSING BUT ONES THAT HAVE PASSED ARE SIGNIFICANT AND THERE IS ABOUT 10 THAT ARE WAITING TO BE SIGNED RIGHT NOW.

THE PROBLEM IS FOR TRAVEL, FOR EXAMPLE, THERE ARE NOW RULES IN EFFECT IN FLORIDA WHERE YOU HAVE TO GO INTO THE REST ROOM OF THE SAME SEX THAT YOU WERE GIVEN AT BIRTH.

IN ADDITION TO THAT, THERE ARE A LOT OF ANTI-TRENDS BILLS BEING INTRODUCED WHERE IT HAS TO DO WITH TRANS PEOPLE IN SPORTS, WHETHER IT IS IN SCHOOLS OR EVEN IN SPORTS THAT ARE AT THE COLLEGE LEVEL AND ALSO BILLS THAT HAVE BEEN INTRODUCED THAT ARE FORBIDDING GENDER AFFIRMING HEALTHCARE AND EQUITABLE HEALTHCARE FOR TRANS YOUTH, JUST DUE TO THE FACT THAT THERE IS A HUGE MISUNDERSTANDING OF EXACTLY WHAT IS INVOLVED WITH TRANSGENDER TRANSITIONS FOR ADULTS, BUT SPECIFICALLY FOR KIDS.

AND THOSE BILLS PROHIBIT PARENTS FROM ACTUALLY GIVING THEIR CHILDREN ANY GENDER AFFIRMING HEALTHCARE WHICH WOULD INCLUDE EVEN MENTAL HEALTH.

TEXAS IS REQUIRING THAT THOSE PARENTS WEAN THEIR CHILDREN OFF OF THIS GENDER-AFFIRMING HEALTH CARE WHICH INCLUDES SOME MEDICATIONS THEY TAKE, LIKE PUBERTY BLOCKERS.

AND IF THEY DON'T WEAN THEM OFF THEN IT WILL BECOME SOMETHING THE PARENT COULD BECOME ARRESTED FOR, OR THE CHILD COULD BE TAKEN AWAY FROM THE PARENTS.

SO, IT IS NOT A REALLY PLEASANT PLACE WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW IN THIS COUNTRY AND IT IS NOT AS IF WE HAVE SEEN AN END TO IT.

IT JUST SEEMS TO BE ESCALATING, WHICH IS WHY THEY ISSUED THE STATE OF EMERGENCY.

>> Lou: YOU MENTIONED BILLS THAT MIGHT AFFECT PEOPLE WHEN THEY TRAVEL.

I KNOW THERE IS A GUIDE BOOK THEY PUT TOGETHER TO HELP PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THEIR RIGHTS IN DIFFERENT STATES.

HOW DID THAT IDEA COME ABOUT?

>> Kevin: THE HUMAN RIGHTS CAMPAIGN, AGAIN, THEY LOOKED INTO THIS BECAUSE OF ALL THE TRACKING THEY HAVE BEEN DOING.

EVEN ANECDOTALLY SPEAKING FOR MYSELF AND MY PARTNER AND FOR OTHERS THAT I KNOW THAT ARE TRAVELING, EVERYONE SEEMS NOW TO BE A LITTLE BIT ON EDGE.

IF WE WERE GOING TO GO TO FLORIDA, FOR EXAMPLE, THERE ARE PRIDE CELEBRATIONS BEING CANCELED ACROSS THAT STATE.

WE ARE SEEING THINGS HAPPENING AND WITH ALL OF THIS NEGATIVITY AND SOUND BYTES THAT ARE CREATED FOR THE GENERAL POPULATION, THAT CAUSES BIGGER MISUNDERSTANDINGS AND ALSO EMBOLDENING PEOPLE TO BE HATEFUL AND TO MAKE THINGS VERY UNCOMFORTABLE FOR PEOPLE THAT TRAVEL.

AND IN SOME CASES WE ARE SEEING VIOLENCE HAPPENING AGAINST THE COMMUNITY.

ESPECIALLY BLACK TRANSGENDER WOMEN, OR BLACK LGBTQ IA FOLKS AND PEOPLE OF COLOR IN GENERAL AND INDIGENOUS PEOPLE WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY AND THE WHITE COMMUNITY WITHIN THE LGBTQ IA COMMUNITY.

IT IS A CAUSE FOR CONCERN.

IT IS MAKING A LOT IN OUR COMMUNITY STEP BACK AND SAY, WOW, ESPECIALLY PEOPLE WHO ARE IN MY AGE GROUP BECAUSE MANY OF US THOUGHT THAT WE HAD GOTTEN SOMEWHERE AND NOW WE SEEM LIKE WE HAVE BEEN PUSHED BACK MULTIPLE STEPS DOWN THE LADDER, SO TO SPEAK.

>> Lou: THESE TRENDS OF HATE WE SEE NATIONALLY, ARE THEY FINDING THEIR WAY HERE TO NEW MEXICO?

WHAT HAVE OUR LEADERS DONE TO BUILD PROTECTIONS AGAINST THIS?

>> Kevin: LUCKILY, WE ARE IN THE BEST PLACE IN THE COUNTRY FOR PRO QUEER LGBTQ IA LEGISLATION.

THERE ARE A LOT OF SAFEGUARDS AND SAFETY RAILS PUT INTO PLACE THROUGH COLLABORATION WITH THE GOVERNING BODY HERE IN NEW MEXICO, WITH STATE GOVERNING BODIES AND THAT HAS BEEN SPEARHEADED THROUGH A NETWORK ORGANIZATION THAT IS ALSO 30 THIS YEAR, LIKE WE ARE, WHICH IS CALLED EQUALITY NEW MEXICO, EQNM.

THEY ARE SET UP AS A LOBBYING ASSOCIATION AND GROUP THAT GO INTO THE STATE GOVERNMENT AND PROMOTE RIGHTS AND ILLICIT CHANGE, POSITIVE CHANGE, FOR OUR COMMUNITY HERE IN THE STATE.

>> Lou: ARE THERE ANY PIECES OF THIS WAVE OF ANTI-LGBTQ LEGISLATION THAT YOU SEE IN PARTICULAR THAT MAYBE OUR PROTECTIONS AREN'T SO STRONG HERE?

ARE THERE ANY VULNERABILITIES TO THAT SHIFTING TREND AMONG VOTERS THAT COULD EVENTUALLY REACH HERE.

>> Kevin: THE ONE CONCERN AND THIS IS ALSO ON A NATIONAL LEVEL TOO, THOSE OF US WHO ARE OF VOTING AGE, THAT WE NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT IS GOING ON WITHIN LOCAL ELECTIONS SPECIFICALLY SCHOOL BOARDS.

AND THAT IS WHERE THERE COULD BE VULNERABILITY.

A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE WON'T PAY ATTENTION TO A SCHOOL BOARD ELECTION BUT IF WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE ELECTED IN SCHOOL BOARDS AND DECIDE TO START TO CHANGE RULES IN SCHOOLS, THEN WE COULD BE SEEING A WAVE OF THINGS HAPPENING.

AND HONESTLY THERE ARE RUMBLINGS FROM DIFFERENT POLITICIANS THROUGHOUT THE STATE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, MAKING CHANGES, TAKING US BACK.

I THINK THEY ARE JUST RUMBLINGS AT THIS POINT BUT WE HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, NOT LET OUR GUARD DOWN HERE.

>> Lou: THIS YEAR IS THE 30TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE SANTA FE PRIDE EVENT.

IT TOOK A LITTLE BIT OF DIFFERENT PLANNING THIS YEAR BECAUSE OF THESE TRENDS THAT WE ARE SEEING.

>> Kevin: RIGHT, NOTHING THAT I THOUGHT I WOULD BE DOING AT THIS POINT IN MY LIFE BUT, YES, IT WAS RECOMMENDED, WE ARE PART OF NATIONAL ORGANIZATION, AND AS A PRIDE GROUP OR LGBTQ CENTER, I HAVE HAD SEVERAL MEETINGS WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY IN ORDER FOR US TO WORK MORE CLOSELY TOGETHER WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENTS AND ALSO WITH THE FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION, WITH THE FBI, JUST SO THAT WE CAN KEEP OUR EAR TO THE GROUND AND BE AWARE OF ANYTHING THAT IS HAPPENING AND ALSO TO RAISE AWARENESS THAT THEY KNOW THAT THESE THINGS ARE GOING ON, SO, WE ARE ALL SHARING INFORMATION BACK AND FORTH.

>> Lou: I KNOW THE CELEBRATION IS ALSO EXPANDING QUITE A BIT THIS YEAR.

WHAT CAN PEOPLE EXPECT?

I KNOW, LEADING UP TO THE BIG CELEBRATION ON THE 24TH, THERE IS A LOT GOING ON.

>> Kevin: WE HAD A GREAT WEEK THIS WEEK.

STARTED MONDAY WITH THE MAYOR GIVING A PROCLAMATION IN SANTA FE NAMING IT AS A SAFE SPACE.

WE RAISED THE FLAG, THE PRIDE FLAG UP OVER CITY HALL ALONG WITH THE NEW MEXICO STATE FLAG AND THE SANTA FE CITY FLAG.

BUT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE TOMORROW NIGHT, WHICH WILL PROBABLY HAVE ALREADY HAPPENED, BUT TOMORROW NIGHT, WILL BE QUEER PROM.

THAT IS WEDNESDAY, JUNE 14.

AND THEN WE HAVE A BIG KICK OFF CELEBRATION HAPPENING ON SATURDAY, JUNE 16.

WE ARE DOING THIS IN COLLABORATION WITH THE COWGIRL BARBECUE IN SANTA FE BECAUSE THEY ALSO TURN 30.

AND WE HAVE A STREET PARTY ON GUADALUPE AND AZTEC STREET IN SANTA FE THAT IS GOING TO BE A LOT OF FUN WITH DRAG SHOWS AND BAND AND MARCHING BAND AND LOTS OF FUN HAPPENING THERE.

AND THE NIGHT BEFORE WE ARE DOING OUR FIRST EVER PRIDE COMEDY NIGHT.

WE BROUGHT IN TWO COMEDIANS.

ONE IS MARGO GOMEZ FROM SAN FRANCISCO AND THE SECOND IS GOLDSTEIN FROM LOS ANGELES AND WE'LL BE HOLDING THAT AT THE SCOTTISH RITE TEMPLE.

THEN WE GO INTO PRIDE WEEK NEXT WEEK AND WE HAVE A MOVIE NIGHT ON TUESDAY.

WE HAVE DRAG BINGO ON THURSDAY AND THEN WE HAVE THE BIG CELEBRATION ON SATURDAY, JUNE 24, PRIDE ON THE PLAZA WHICH WILL BE THE BIGGEST PRIDE THAT SANTA FE PROBABLY HAS EVER SEEN THIS YEAR.

WE HAVE THE PLAZA.

WE ARE TAKING TWO SIDE STREETS EXPANDING AND WE'LL HAVE CLOSE TO 80 BOOTHS AND LOCAL BUSINESSES AND THE COOL THING ABOUT ALL OF THIS IS THAT THE SUPPORT WE HAVE SEEN THIS YEAR IS UNMATCHABLE TO ANY OTHER YEARS.

WE ARE THRILLED ABOUT PRIDE THIS YEAR.

>> Lou: WHAT WAS IT ABOUT THIS YEAR THAT PUSHED YOU TO MAKE THESE EXPANSIONS NOW?

COMING OUT OF COVID, HAS THAT STALLED SOME OF THESE PLANS?

>> Kevin: YEAH, IT DID.

WHEN I FIRST TOOK OVER THIS ORGANIZATION, WHICH WAS ABOUT THREE-AND-A-HALF YEARS AGO, WE WENT RIGHT INTO COVID.

I STARTED IN NOVEMBER AND THEN FEBRUARY WAS COVID.

SO, WE DID A SMALL PRIDE AND IT WAS A MATTER OF BUILDING IT BACK UP AGAIN.

WE ACTUALLY DID A VIRTUAL PRIDE AND THEN WE STARTED THE NEXT YEAR, VERY SMALL, AND THEN IT HAS GROWN SINCE THEN AND THE KEY THING IS BECAUSE WE ARE TURNING 30, THE HUMAN RIGHTS ALLIANCE AND PRIDE IS TURNING 30 THIS YEAR AND EQUALITY NEW MEXICO TURNED 30, IT IS TIME FOR US TO REALLY PUT IT OUT THERE.

AND THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, SANTA FE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A GO-TO PLACE FOR THE LGBTQ PLUS COMMUNITY NATIONALLY.

AND WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO SETTLE HERE AND ESPECIALLY AFTER THE PANDEMIC, PEOPLE FROM THE MOVIE INDUSTRY AND PEOPLE FROM OTHER STATES, WE ARE SEEING THAT WE ARE TRYING TO TRACK, BUT ANECDOTALLY A LOT OF MEMBERS OF OUR COMMUNITY ARE MOVING FROM OTHER STATES TO COME TO NEW MEXICO BECAUSE OF ALL THE SAFEGUARDS THAT ARE HERE.

>> Lou: KEVIN BOWEN, 30 YEARS OF PRIDE NEW MEXICO, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING HERE AND TALKING TO US ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

>> Kevin: THANK YOU.

IT WAS A PLEASURE.

APPRECIATE IT.

>> Gene: WELCOME BACK TO OUR LINE OPINION PANELISTS.

A NEW POLICY PROPOSAL WOULD REQUIRE ALBUQUERQUE PUBLIC SCHOOLS TO DENY ENROLLMENT TO A STUDENT WHO HAS BEEN EXPELLED FROM ANY SCHOOL IN THE PREVIOUS 12 MONTHS.

NOW, THAT'S WITH A SIGN-OFF FROM APS HIGHER UP.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT.

THE PROPOSAL IS EXPECTED TO GO TO THE DISTRICT CABINET AND SUPERINTENDENT FOR APPROVAL BEFORE THE NEXT SCHOOL YEAR.

SHAUN, UNDER THE PROPOSAL, PREVIOUS EXPULSIONS AREN'T THE ONLY CRITERIA FOR BLOCKING ENROLLMENT.

APS WOULD HAVE TO DENY A STUDENT IF THEY ARE DEEMED "DETRIMENTAL TO THE SAFETY OR WELFARE OF APS STUDENTS OR PERSONNEL."

THAT LANGUAGE SEEMS PRETTY BROAD.

THAT'S A BIG OLE BUCKET.

DOES IT MEAN EVERY TRANSGRESSION ANY KID HAS EVER PULLED EVER, OR ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THINGS LIKE GUNS IN SCHOOL?

HOW DID YOU INTERPRET THAT WHEN YOU HEARD IT?

>> Shaun: WELL, MY FIRST THOUGHT WAS, LIKE, WELL, THIS IS ANY -- MY FIRST THOUGHT WAS THINKING ABOUT ANY STUDENT WHO HAD DISCIPLINARY PROBLEMS.

NOW, APS IS SIGNALING THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE FOR MORE SERIOUS ISSUES AND INFARCTIONS, LIKE VIOLENCE BROUGHT TO SCHOOL, OR BRINGING GUNS TO SCHOOL, OR VIOLENCE AGAINST OTHER STUDENTS.

WE ALL WANT TO HAVE A SAFE SPACE WHEN YOU SEND YOUR CHILD TO SCHOOL SO YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE SOME DETERMENT AGAINST THAT TYPE OF BEHAVIOR THAT HAPPENS IN A SCHOOL ENVIRONMENT.

NOT ONLY DOES IT AFFECT THE LEARNING AREAS, BUT IT ALSO COULD POTENTIALLY CAUSE HARM, AND AS WE SAW LAST YEAR, STUDENTS HAVE DIED IN SCHOOLS.

BUT FROM THERE, MY NEXT THOUGHT WAS LIKE, OKAY, NOW WE'RE LOOKING AT A CLASS OF STUDENTS WHO - KNUCKLEHEADS IS KIND OF AN OLD TERM, BUT I THOUGHT OF THE KNUCKLEHEADS, AND I'M LIKE, WELL, THERE'S A LOT OF KNUCKLEHEADS WHO GROW UP AND BECOME REALLY HIGH-QUALITY CITIZENS.

SO WHY CUT THAT OPPORTUNITY OFF FOR EDUCATION AT SUCH A YOUNG AGE AND NOT LOOK AT WAYS TO GIVE THEM OPPORTUNITIES TO LEARN, TO EDUCATE, TO GET BETTER.

AND THEN MY NEXT THOUGHT FROM THERE WAS LIKE, WHERE ARE THESE KIDS GOING TO GO TO SCHOOL?

AND I WAS LIKE, OH, IS THIS GOING TO BOOST CHARTER SCHOOL ENROLLMENT AND IS THAT SOMETHING APS WANTS?

>> Gene: MARTHA, SOMEONE ON THE APS BOARD MADE REFERENCE LIKE THERE COULD BE POTENTIALLY A CHARTER SCHOOL FOR KIDS THAT HAVE BEEN EXPELLED.

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT.

DISCIPLINE AT THAT SCHOOL, THAT WOULD BE KIND OF INTERESTING.

>> Martha: WHAT THE PERSON SAID WAS, MAYBE THERE'S A PLACE WE CAN SEND THEM.

MAYBE?

TO ME AS A FORMER PSYCHOLOGIST IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS, AND THE SCHOOLS WERE MY CLIENTS, THIS IS THE DUMBEST THING I'VE HEARD EVER.

LET'S LOOK AT THE DOWNSTREAM EFFECTS.

SO YOU KICK THE KID OUT OF SCHOOL WHEN THEY'RE 12, 14 YEARS OLD, THEY CAN'T GET IN ANY OTHER SCHOOL.

WHAT HAPPENS?

THEY FALL INTO THE DRUG CULTURE, THEY FALL INTO THE STREET CULTURE.

NOT GOING TO BE TOO LONG UNTIL THEY'RE IN JAIL.

YOU'VE MADE MAYBE SOMEBODY THAT'S INCARCERATED OFF AND ON FOR THE REST OF LIFE.

WHAT'S THAT GOING TO COST IN PUBLIC MONEY?

I MEAN, EVEN IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT THEIR LIFE.

SO I JUST THINK IT IS SUCH A MISGUIDED SITUATION.

IT'S NOT A GOOD IDEA.

AND THERE'S ONE OTHER FACTOR THAT HAS NOT BEEN MENTIONED.

FEDERAL LAW FOR KIDS THAT ARE IN SPECIAL ED, AND SOME OF THESE ARE GOING TO E SPECIAL ED KIDS, THAT'S WHY THEY'RE CAUSING TROUBLE AND SO FORTH, THE LAW SAYS THEY ARE ENTITLED TO A FREE AND APPROPRIATE PUBLIC EDUCATION.

THAT'S THE LAW.

WHAT'S APS GOING TO DO ABOUT THAT?

>> Gene: THAT'S RIGHT.

ONCE ONE KID IS THROWN OUT AND THEY HAVE AN ATTORNEY AND THEY TAKE IT ALL THE WAY THEY NEED TO TAKE, MAYBE STATE SUPREME COURT, THAT WOULD BE A MESS FOR THEM.

WHILE I'VE GOT YOU ON THIS SUBJECT, WE TALKED AT THIS TABLE MANY YEARS AGO, YOU'VE BEEN A PART OF THIS CONVERSATION, ABOUT THE SCHOOL TO PRISON PIPELINE.

IS THIS ONE OF THOSE DEALS WHERE PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND THE RAMIFICATIONS HERE, HOW THIS MIGHT BE A SLIPPERY SLOPE?

>> Martha: I'M AT A LOSS, GENE, WHY THE EDUCATORS DON'T UNDERSTAND.

NOW, THERE MAY BE PEOPLE OUT THERE ON THE STREET THAT HAVE NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT IT.

MAYBE THEY DON'T HAVE KIDS.

IT'S JUST NOT ON THEIR RADAR.

THESE ARE SCHOOL PROFESSIONALS.

HOW THEY COULD NOT HAVE THAT ON THEIR RADAR, I DON'T KNOW.

AND I THINK IT'S MAKING THEM LOOK BOTH INCOMPETENT AND SHORT-SIGHTED.

IT'S NOT GOOD FOR THE SYSTEM AS A WHOLE, WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE.

IT'S GOING TO UNDERMINE CONFIDENCE OF PARENTS WHOSE KIDS ARE NOT IN TROUBLE.

YOU KNOW, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO MY KID NEXT?

>> Gene: SOME THINGS DON'T CHANGE.

WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL, THE KIDS THAT EITHER DROPPED OUT OR WERE THROWN OUT, THOSE WERE THE ONES IN THE PARKING LOT SELLING DRUGS.

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED.

THEY STILL CAME TO SCHOOL, THEY JUST WEREN'T GOING TO CLASS.

THEY HAD NOWHERE ELSE TO GO, SO THEY CAME TO SCHOOL.

MERRITT, IT'S INTERESTING, AND MARTHA JUST MENTIONED, SCHOOL BOARD SECRETARY COURTNEY JACKSON SUGGESTED PLACING THESE KIDS WHO ARE DENIED ENROLLMENT IN A NON-TRADITIONAL EDUCATIONAL ENVIRONMENT SO THEY CAN RECEIVE THE SUPPORT THEY NEED.

DOES APS HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN?

WHO IS SHE ASKING TO DO THIS?

>> Merritt: I COULDN'T AGREE WITH MY FELLOW PANELIST MORE.

THERE ARE VERY DIFFERENT LAYERS OF MISBEHAVIOR.

YOU'VE GOT YOUR KNUCKLEHEADS, YOU'VE GOT YOUR TRULY BAD KIDS.

CHILDREN HAVE A RIGHT TO EDUCATION.

DUMPING KIDS OUT, TO YOUR POINT, TO MARTHA'S POINT, THEY'RE GOING TO GO SOMEWHERE.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE ENDEMIC POVERTY AND DRUG USE IN OUR STATE, THIS ONLY PERPETUATES IT.

THE INCREDIBLE LACK OF PLANNING OR SAFETY NET BEHIND THIS IS TRULY BREATHTAKING, I THINK.

AN ALTERNATIVE SCHOOL IS NOT A SHOCKING OR REVOLUTIONARY IDEA, AND LET'S BE CLEAR, I'M NOT AN EDUCATOR, I'M AN ECON MAJOR WHO WORKS IN PR, HELLO, AND I'M THINKING OF THIS.

I HAVE NO SCHOOL BOARD EXPERIENCE.

IT'S VERY TYPICAL IN SILVER CITY.

THEY CREATED AN ALTERNATIVE SCHOOL YEARS AGO.

FAIRFAX COUNTY, VIRGINIA, WHICH IS ONE OF THE BEST SCHOOL DISTRICTS IN THE STATE, 20 YEARS AGO DEVELOPED A SCHOOL -- THEY HAD AN ALTERNATIVE SCHOOL, AND THEN IF THAT DID NOT WORK OUT, A TRULY LAST CHANCE SCHOOL, AND YOU SPENT HALF THE DAY FULFILLING YOUR HIGH SCHOOL CREDITS AND THE OTHER HALF DAY WORKING CONSTRUCTION.

SO IF SCHOOL WAS REALLY NOT GOING TO WORK OUT FOR YOU, YOU ACTUALLY HAD A TRADE SO YOU COULD GO GET A JOB.

>> Gene: INSTEAD OF JUST JETTISONING THE KID OUT IN THE STREET AND SAYING, GOOD LUCK, AND WE'LL SEE YOU DOWN THE ROAD.

>> Merritt: RIGHT.

WE CANNOT FIGURE THIS OUT?

WE REALLY CANNOT FIGURE THIS OUT?

I MEAN, SHAME ON YOU APS.

THAT'S REALLY ALL I HAVE TO SAY.

>> Gene: I WANT TO GO BACK TO SOMETHING, SHAUN, YOU MENTIONED.

ONE OF THE OFFICIALS QUOTED IN THAT JOURNAL ARTICLE THAT CAME OUT THIS WEEK MENTIONED THE PROPOSED POLICY COULD BE AIMED AT KIDS WHO HAVE BROUGHT GUNS TO SCHOOL, BUT WEREN'T DISCIPLINED FOR IT.

THIS IS MY BIG QUESTION.

HOW COULD YOU NOT KNOW THE NAMES OF EVERY CHILD THAT HAS BROUGHT A GUN ONTO AN APS CAMPUS?

JUST LET ME GET THAT OUT OF MY SYSTEM.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS IDEA, ABOUT TARGETING KIDS THAT HAVE BROUGHT GUNS TO SCHOOL?

>> Shaun: HONESTLY, I THINK THAT THAT'S PROBABLY A BIT OF MISINFORMATION.

YOU'RE RIGHT.

I MEAN, HOW CAN YOU -- FIRST, IT ALSO SHOWS A LACK OF TRUST WITHIN YOUR SCHOOLS.

YOUR PRINCIPALS, ASSISTANT PRINCIPALS, TEACHERS.

YOU'RE SAYING THEY'RE INCOMPETENT ENOUGH TO NOT BE ABLE TO PROVIDE ALL THIS INFORMATION.

SO ONE, I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THAT'S ENTIRELY TRUE.

ONE THING THAT REALLY STICKS OUT TO ME A LOT IN THIS, AS WELL, IS ALL POLITICS IS LOCAL, AND WHILE THE SCHOOL BOARD ITSELF IS NONPARTISAN, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NOT DEMOCRATS OR REPUBLICANS LISTED ON THE SCHOOL BOARD, WHEN WE LOOKED AT THE NEW MAKE-UP OF THE SCHOOL BOARD, WE LOOKED AT CAMPAIGN DONATIONS, AND THE SCHOOL BOARD, THE MAJORITY NOW, WE FOUND OUT THE NEW PEOPLE ELECTED TO IT HAD A LOT OF REPUBLICAN BACKED FINANCIAL DONORS.

AND SO IT'S REALLY INTERESTING TO UNDERSTAND, LIKE, IS THERE A POLITICAL MOTIVE BEHIND THE SCHOOL BOARD THAT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE PARTISAN, BUT IT IS MADE UP OF REPUBLICANS.

>> Gene: THAT'S RIGHT.

AND THERE ARE POLICY ISSUES THAT ARE SHOWING THAT COMING TO THE SURFACE NOW.

MARTHA, ALBUQUERQUE TEACHERS FEDERATION PRESIDENT ELLEN BERNSTEIN, WE ALL KNOW HER, SHE WAS QUOTED IN THE JOURNAL PIECE SAYING, "EVERYBODY MAKES MISTAKES, AND IF YOU CAN'T EVER RECTIFY THE MISTAKE, WHAT DO YOU DO?"

THAT'S A FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION, IT SEEMS TO ME.

THAT SEEMS TO BE THE FIRST QUESTION THAT SHOULD BE ON THE TABLE BEFORE YOU GET TO WHERE WE ARE WITH THESE SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENT FOLKS.

IS SHE RIGHT ON THAT?

>> Martha: WELL, THE IF-YOU-CAN'T-RECTIFY-IT, HAVE YOU TRIED RECTIFYING IT?

THAT'S A CORE QUESTION HERE.

OR JUST KICK THEM OUT?

YOU KNOW, IS THERE A SCHOOL WITHIN A SCHOOL MODEL?

SOME DISTRICTS AROUND THE COUNTRY HAVE THAT, YOU KNOW, WHERE KIDS CAN GO TO COOL OFF, THEY CAN GO TO GET COUNSELING AND THAT SORT OF THING.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE TRIED BEFORE YOU CAN SAY, WELL, IT'S HOPELESS.

>> Gene: THAT IS RIGHT.

MERRITT, FINISH UP FOR US, IF YOU WOULD, ON THIS IDEA OF SECOND CHANCES.

IN OUR LEGISLATURE JUST THIS PAST SESSION, WE HAD A SECOND CHANCE BILL PASSED FOR JUVENILES WHO WERE DOING LIFE SENTENCES.

BUT WE CAN'T SEEM TO FIND A SECOND CHANCE WAY FOR A KID THAT SCREWED UP ON A SCHOOL CAMPUS.

SOMETHING SEEMS A LITTLE OFF HERE.

IS THE SCHOOL BOARD OFF THE BEAT HERE?

MEANING, THIS IS AN ERA OF SECOND CHANCES.

WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS FOR ABOUT A DECADE HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

BUT THIS SEEMS MUCH MORE PUNITIVE.

WHAT'S YOUR THOUGHT ON THE FLOW?

ARE THEY IN THE FLOW OF SOCIETY HERE?

>> Merritt: I THINK THIS IS COMPLETELY OFF.

YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT, AGAIN, TO THE POINT, WHERE ARE THESE CHILDREN GOING TO GO?

ARE THEY GOING TO GO GET A RESPONSIBLE JOB?

ARE THEY GOING TO HAVE THE SKILL?

IS ANYBODY GOING TO HIRE THEM?

NO.

>> Gene: WHY AM I OUT ON THE STREET?

I GOT THROWN OUT OF SCHOOL.

THE DOORS ARE SLAMMED IN YOUR FACE, THAT'S RIGHT.

>> Merritt: I MEAN, NO ONE HAS THOUGHT PAST, WELL, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE IN SCHOOL WITH MY CHILD.

I MEAN, THIS MAKES NO SENSE.

ISOLATING THESE CHILDREN FURTHER GETS NOTHING DONE, AND I DON'T FEEL LIKE THIS IS A PARTICULARLY LIBERAL OR CONSERVATIVE POSITION.

IT'S JUST SIMPLY A MATTER OF OUR SOCIETY AND AN OBLIGATION TO EDUCATE OUR CHILDREN, WHICH IS KIND OF DEVELOP NATION 101.

THIS IS NOT VERY COMPLEX.

>> Gene: WELL SAID.

ACTUALLY, I WANT TO ASK SHAUN TO FINISH UP FOR ME, NOT THAT I DIDN'T LOVE YOUR POINT THERE, BUT IS THIS A TIME, SHAUN, FOR GROUPS THAT REPRESENT KIDS OF COLOR TO COME TO THE FOREFRONT NOW, NOT AFTER THIS IS POTENTIALLY IN PLACE, BUT RIGHT NOW AND SAY, NO, NO, NO, WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT THIS.

IS THIS ONE OF THOSE MOMENTS?

>> Shaun: THIS IS DEFINITELY A MOMENT TO BRING THAT UP, BECAUSE WE ARE GOING TO SEE A DISPROPORTIONATE AMOUNT OF STUDENTS WHO ARE DISCIPLINED WHO COME FROM COMMUNITIES OF COLOR.

AND ALSO WHEN YOU LOOK AT OTHER SCHOOL DISTRICTS WHO MIGHT EVEN WANT TO SEE THIS AS A POTENTIAL MODEL TO DEAL WITH THEIR OWN ISSUES.

LIKE, WHO'S THIS GOING TO AFFECT IN THE VERY END OF IT ALL?

SO YEAH, DEFINITELY, THIS IS A TIME FOR EVERYBODY TO STAND UP AND SAY, WE DON'T WANT THIS.

BECAUSE WHAT IS THAT SCHOOL, OR THIS SPACE THAT THEY'RE LOOKING TO CREATE.

THAT SOUNDS LIKE A JAIL.

>> Gene: RIGHT, EXACTLY.

WOULD YOU WANT TO BE SEEN WALKING IN AND OUT OF THAT SCHOOL?

I MEAN, TALK ABOUT SOME KIND OF MARK OR SOMETHING.

YOU'RE JUST A DIFFERENT PERSON IN SOCIETY AT THAT POINT.

THANKS AGAIN TO OUR LINE OPINION PANEL.

WE'LL BE BACK FOR ONE FINAL SEGMENT IN LESS THAN 10 MINUTES WHERE WE TALK THROUGH THE $500 MILLION OF OPIOID SETTLEMENT BETWEEN WALGREEN'S AND THE STATE.

BUT FIRST, WE RETURN THIS WEEK TO POET AND AUTHOR MICHELLE OTERO.

IN PART TWO OF THEIR CONVERSATION, OUR LAND'S LAURA PASKUS ASKS MS. OTERO ABOUT HER RECENTLY PUBLISHED MEMOIR, "VESSELS, A MEMORY OF BORDERS," AND ABOUT THE PROCESS OF WRITING AS AN ACT OF HEALING.

>> Laura: HI MICHELLE OTERO.

THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

>> Michelle: THANK YOU, LAURA.

GLAD TO BE HERE.

>> Laura: SO YOU GREW UP IN DEMING.

HOW DID THAT LANDSCAPE AND THAT PROXIMITY TO THE BORDER, HOW DID THAT SHAPE YOU AND YOUR WRITING AND YOUR ATTENTIVENESS, WHICH COMES THROUGH SO MUCH IN YOUR WRITING?

>> Michelle: I THINK THAT LANDSCAPE, I REALLY TOOK IT FOR GRANTED WHEN I WAS A KID, BECAUSE IT'S JUST, THAT'S HOW EVERYTHING LOOKED.

SO ALL THE THINGS WITH FLOWERS CAN ALSO POKE YOU AND HURT YOU.

IT WAS -- I JUST REMEMBER HOW HARD MY PARENTS TRIED TO GROW GRASS, LIKE FOR YEARS, AND THEY TRIED EVERYTHING.

THEY WOULD DO, LIKE, SOD OR THEN MANURE, AND IT REALLY WASN'T -- I'M KIND OF GLAD WE DIDN'T HAVE THE INTERNET THEN, BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW -- THERE WAS A LOT I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THE WHOLE ESTHETIC OF LIKE YOU HAVE TO HAVE A LUSH LAWN AND THESE HUGE TREES.

IT JUST WASN'T WHAT I GREW UP WITH.

SO I ACTUALLY REALLY APPRECIATE BEING IN SPACES WHERE YOU CAN SEE THE SKY, WHERE THINGS THAT ARE BEAUTIFUL HAVE PROTECTION AROUND THEM, WHERE YOU KIND OF KNOW YOUR PLACE IN THE WORLD.

YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU GROW UP IN THAT LANDSCAPE, I THINK, AND THIS ONE, TOO, YOU REALIZE, LIKE, YOU'RE A TEENY TINY PART OF IT AND NOT THE CENTER, AND I THINK THAT SHOWS UP A LOT IN MY WRITING.

I DON'T KNOW IF I HAD A REAL CONCEPT OF, LIKE, THE BORDER, LIKE THE INTERNATIONAL BORDER, BECAUSE THERE WAS SO MUCH -- JUST THERE WAS SO MUCH -- THEY'RE IN SUCH CLOSE PROXIMITY TO EACH OTHER THAT MEXICO ALMOST DIDN'T FEEL LIKE ANOTHER COUNTRY IN REALLY CONSCIOUS WAYS, AND THEN IN PROFOUND WAYS IT TOTALLY DID.

SO IN DEMING AND THAT WHOLE AREA, THERE'S COTTON, THERE'S CHILI, MOST OF THE PEOPLE PICKING THAT ARE FROM MEXICO, AND SO I JUST REMEMBER SEEING, LIKE, SCHOOL BUSES WITH -- I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S IN THIS BOOK OR SOMETHING ELSE I WROTE, OF ALMOST LIKE A SAD BASEBALL TEAM, GOING OUT TO THESE FIELDS AND PICKING.

AND I HAD AN IDEA THAT THAT WAS REALLY HARD, BACK-BREAKING WORK.

AND ALSO BECAUSE I DIDN'T GROW UP SPEAKING SPANISH, THERE WAS A WAY THAT THAT LINE, THAT BORDER DID FEEL LIKE A DIVIDER.

I THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE I'LL LEARN SPANISH.

IT'LL BE LIKE MY PERIOD.

LIKE, WHEN I GET BY PERIOD, I'LL GAIN THE ABILITY TO SPEAK SPANISH.

YOU KNOW, SO IN THAT SENSE, I WAS PRESSED RIGHT UP AGAINST IT, AND THEN ALSO VERY SEPARATE FROM IT JUST IN TERMS OF LIKE LANGUAGE, AND THEN ALSO AS I'VE GOTTEN OLDER, I THINK THE PRIVILEGES, LIKE THE STARK CONTRAST BETWEEN WHAT IT MEANS TO HAVE U.S.

CITIZENSHIP AND WHAT IT MEANS TO NOT HAVE THAT, ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE FROM MEXICO, HAS JUST BECOME MORE AND MORE PRONOUNCED AS I'VE BECOME MORE CONSCIOUS, TOO.

>> Laura: I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD READ A SHORT PASSAGE ON PAGE 158.

THIS IS SOMEONE WHO IS GIVING YOU SOME ADVICE.

WOULD YOU START WITH "ALMA SAID."

>> Michelle: "ALMA SAID, YOUR MIND IS LIKE A RIVER AND EACH TRAUMA POLLUTES THE RIVER.

WHEN YOU RETELL THE TRAUMA, YOU TAKE THE JUNK OUT SO THE WATER CAN FLOW AGAIN.

YOU TURN FULL COLOR MEMORIES TO BLACK AND WHITE.

SO IT'S LIKE A PICTURE YOU'RE SEEING INSTEAD OF A MOVIE YOU KEEP RELIVING."

>> Laura: GIVEN THE WORK THAT YOU DO AND THE THINGS THAT YOU THINK ABOUT AND WRITE ABOUT, HOW DO WE BEST PROCESS TRAUMA ON OUR BODIES?

>> Michelle: I THINK THE WRITING PROCESS ACTUALLY REALLY PARALLELS THE HEALING PROCESS WHERE INITIALLY WE JUST, BLAH, JUST LIKE SPIT OUT WHATEVER THAT PROCESS IS, LIKE AS MANY WORDS AS WE CAN, ESPECIALLY FOR WRITING.

I'M MOST FAMILIAR CREATIVE NONFICTION AND POETRY, BUT I THINK IF YOU'RE DOING ANY FORM OF WRITING, THAT IS ABOUT JUST GETTING THE STORY OUT.

AND I THINK EARLY IN THE THERAPEUTIC PROCESS, IT MIGHT BE, LIKE, EVERYTHING IS SO JUMBLED THAT IT'S JUST WORDS AND MAYBE THEY FEEL DISCONNECTED.

AND THEN THERE'S THE PROCESS OF GOING BACK AND MAKING MEANING OF THOSE THINGS.

SO IN THE WRITING PROCESS, I HAVE -- YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY DRAFTS OF THIS BOOK I WENT THROUGH.

YOU KNOW, IT TOOK ME 18 YEARS TO WRITE, SO MANY, MANY, MANY WORDS THAT ACTUALLY AREN'T IN THIS BOOK.

AND I THINK THAT'S TRUE OF LIKE A HEALING PROCESS, AS WELL, WHERE YOU GO BACK AND LAYER ON MEANING.

YOU SHAPE THINGS.

AND THEN EVENTUALLY YOU INCORPORATE THAT MEANING BACK INTO THE LARGER STORY OF YOUR LIFE.

SO I THINK THAT THERE ARE WAYS TO DO THAT THAT ARE WITH SOMEBODY LIKE ALMA, WHO'S THE THERAPIST IN THIS BOOK, AND WAS SO HELPFUL TO ME.

IT'S NOT HER REAL NAME.

SHE REALLY ACCOMPANIED ME ON A SPECIFIC PROCESS ABOUT, LIKE, GOING BACK INTO TRAUMA MEMORIES AND HOLDING THEM UP AND GIVING ME THE ABILITY TO BE IN BOTH, LIKE, HEMISPHERES OF MY BRAIN AT THE SAME TIME.

SO THAT INSTEAD OF EITHER JUST REPORTING THE FACTS AND BEING TOTALLY DETACHED FROM EMOTION, OR BEING SO MUCH IN MY EMOTION AND HAVING NO, LIKE, STRUCTURE, THROUGH OUR WORK TOGETHER I WAS ABLE TO KIND OF INTEGRATE THOSE MEMORIES IN A WAY THAT IS PART OF THE LARGER STORY OF MY LIFE, AND NOT THE STORY.

I THINK THAT'S ALSO TRUE OF WRITING.

SO BELL HOOKS TALKED ABOUT, MAY SHE REST IN PEACE, HOW FOR MANY COMMUNITIES, SOMETIMES THE ONLY ACCESS THAT THEY HAVE TO A THERAPEUTIC PROCESS IS THROUGH WRITING, SO I'M NOT A THERAPIST AND I'VE ALSO SEEN HOW HEALING THE WRITING PROCESS CAN BE FOR -- YOU KNOW, I'VE WORKED MOSTLY WITH WOMEN, BUT I'VE ALSO SEEN HOW IT'S BEEN THERAPEUTIC FOR LIKE YOUNG MEN AND FOR GROUPS OF OTHER GROUPS THAT I'VE WORKED WITH, WHERE JUST BEING ABLE TO GET A STORY DOWN AND THEN TO COMPLETE THE PROCESS OF HAVING THAT STORY WITNESSED AND HELD BY A COMMUNITY, WHETHER THAT COMMUNITY IS LIKE YOUR IMMEDIATE FAMILY OR YOUR CLOSE FRIENDS, OR LIKE THE LARGER CITY OR STATE WHERE YOU LIVE, THAT FOR ME REALLY COMPLETES THE WHOLE PROCESS.

>> Laura: ALONG THOSE LINES, ARE THERE LESSONS FOR US WHEN WE'RE TRYING TO HEAL THE TRAUMAS ON LANDSCAPES, AND WHAT PART MIGHT STORYTELLING PLAY THERE?

>> Michelle: I THINK FOR THE WRITING PROCESS AND FOR INDIVIDUAL HEALING, AND ALSO LANDSCAPE, IT COMES DOWN TO RELATIONSHIPS.

WHEN I WAS POET LAUREATE, MY PROJECT WAS ALL ALONG THE BOSQUE.

SO ONCE A MONTH I'D INVITE A POET TO PICK A SPOT IN THE BOSQUE THAT THEY LIKED AND A POET WHOSE WORK THEY WANTED TO CELEBRATE, AND IT WAS ALL ABOUT KIND OF TRICKING PEOPLE.

EITHER TRICKING PEOPLE WHO LOVED THE BOSQUE INTO LOVING POETRY, OR TRICKING PEOPLE WHO LOVED POETRY INTO, LIKE, LOVING THE BOSQUE.

AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE THINK OF LAND AS AN ABSTRACTION, WHERE IT'S JUST LIKE SOMETHING JUST TO BE COMMODIFIED OR SOMETHING OUT THERE THAT DOESN'T HAVE MUCH TO DO WITH ME, THEN THERE'S NO IMPERATIVE TO PROTECT IT.

BUT IF I'M IN RELATIONSHIP WITH LAND, MUCH LIKE I'M IN RELATIONSHIP WITH MY OWN STORY, OR IN RELATIONSHIP WITH PEOPLE I LOVE, THEN THE IMPERATIVE TO PROTECT IT BECOMES REAL.

MAYBE IT'S NOT EVEN SO MUCH PROTECTED.

THERE ARE THESE PLACES THAT NEED PROTECTION, BUT IT'S ALSO JUST ABOUT BEING IN RELATIONSHIP WITH IT.

I DON'T HAVE TO ALTER IT, I DON'T HAVE TO MANIPULATE IT, I SEE IT, AND IF IT'S IN NEED OF, LIKE, RESTORATION OR HEALING, LIKE IF A DAM NEEDS TO COME DOWN, IF A RIVER NEEDS TO, YOU KNOW, GO BACK TO ITS NATURAL FLOWS, IF SOMETHING LIKE SALT CEDAR NEEDS TO BE REMOVED, IT'S LIKE, HOW AM I SUPPORTING THIS THING THAT I LOVE, YEAH, THIS ENTITY, THIS PIECE OF LAND THAT I LOVE IN ITS FULLEST EXPRESSION.

>> Laura: WELL, THANK YOU, MICHELLE.

I HAVE LOVED YOUR POETRY OVER THE YEARS.

AND I REALLY, REALLY LOVE THIS MEMOIR.

SO THANK YOU.

>> Michelle: THANK YOU.

>> Gene: WELCOME BACK TO OUR LINE OPINION PANEL FOR ONE LAST SEGMENT.

THE PHARMACY CHAIN WALGREEN'S HAS AGREED TO PAY NEW MEXICO $500 MILLION TO SETTLE THE STATE'S LEGAL CLAIMS OVER THE COMPANY'S ROLE IN THE OPIOID EPIDEMIC.

NOW, THAT SETTLEMENT IS THE LARGEST IN NEW MEXICO'S HISTORY OF COURT BATTLES WITH OPIOID MANUFACTURERS AND DISTRIBUTORS, AS WELL, AND IT MARKS THE LAST IN A SERIES OF DEALS STRUCK WITH FINAL PHARMACY-CARRYING COMPANIES, INCLUDING ALBERTSON'S, CVS, KROGERS AND WAL-MART.

GET THIS, THOSE FOUR CHAINS SETTLED WITH THE STATE LAST FALL FOR A COMBINED $274 MILLION.

THE WALGREEN'S MONEY IS GOING TO BE SPREAD ACROSS THE NEXT 15 YEARS.

THIS IS INTERESTING, TOO.

I WANT MERRITT TO TOUCH ON THIS.

55% GOING TO LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES, 45% OF IT GOING TO THE STATE.

NOW, BEYOND THAT BREAKDOWN, WE DON'T HAVE MANY SPECIFIC, MERRITT, ON HOW THE FUNDS WILL BE USED.

MAYBE A LITTLE MORE TRANSPARENCY MIGHT HELP HERE, BUT IN YOUR INITIAL THOUGHT ABOUT HOW THE MONEY BREAKS DOWN AND WHO GETS IT, IS THIS FAIR TO EVERYONE INVOLVED?

>> Merritt: I THINK THAT SEEMS RIGHT.

IT WORRIES ME THAT THERE IS NOT THE INFRASTRUCTURE TO ACCEPT THAT MONEY.

I MEAN, WE DON'T HAVE THE PROVIDERS TO REALLY MANAGE THAT MONEY AND PROVIDE TREATMENT.

AND SO I HOPE THE STATE WOULD LOOK AT USING THEIR PORTION OF THE MONEY TO HELP CREATE THAT INFRASTRUCTURE, OR CONSIDER AN INVESTMENT FUND TO SUSTAIN A BEHAVIORAL HEALTH NETWORK.

I THINK THAT WOULD BE THE MOST SENSIBLE THING, BECAUSE WHEN WE GOT OUR NOTES FROM THE SHOW, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS WAS, CAN THE STATE MANAGE THIS MONEY EFFECTIVELY?

MY FIRST THOUGHT WAS, NO, OF COURSE NOT.

I DON'T FEEL LIKE WE HAVE A GOOD TRACK RECORD WITH IT.

BUT CERTAINLY OUR RURAL AREAS HAVE BEEN HURT SO BADLY, AND I FEEL LIKE DISPROPORTIONATELY BY THE OPIOID CRISIS.

I LIKE SEEING IT GO TO MUNICIPALITIES.

THE PROBLEM IS, THEY'RE THE ONES WHO LACK THE MOST INFRASTRUCTURE TO REALLY ADMINISTER THOSE FUNDS.

AND SO IF THE STATE COULD REALLY FOCUS ON HELPING THOSE MUNICIPALITIES GET THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND THE PROVIDERS THEY NEED, I THINK THAT WOULD BE A REALLY GOOD USE OF THIS WINDFALL.

>> Gene: SHAUN, TO THIS POINT THAT MERRITT IS MAKING IS THIS IDEA OF HOT SPOTS AROUND THE STATE, AND THERE ARE FOR OPIOID EPIDEMICS.

BUT HER PREVIOUS POINT ABOUT RURAL VERSUS URBAN, ALBUQUERQUE'S BATTLE IS CERTAINLY DIFFERENT THAN CLOVIS OR WHEREVER THE CASE MAY BE.

SHOULD THERE BE MORE STIPULATIONS ABOUT HOW THIS MONEY GOES TO CERTAIN AREAS AROUND THE STATE AS OPPOSED TO HOW WE USUALLY DO IT, ALBUQUERQUE AND SANTA FE GRAB THE BIGGEST PORTION AND THEN WE ALL JUST KIND OF MOVE ON AND DON'T THINK ABOUT IT.

IS THIS AN OPPORTUNITY HERE TO REALLY LEAN INTO SOME RURAL AREAS OF OUR STATE?

>> Shaun: YES, I THINK IT'S AN INCREDIBLE OPPORTUNITY HERE.

THIS WHOLE OPIOID ERA OF ADDICTION AFFECTED EVERY SINGLE PERSON.

I WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL -- I GRADUATED HIGH SCHOOL IN 2006, AND AT THAT POINT THE OPIOIDS WERE ALREADY AROUND SCHOOLS.

STUDENTS WERE ABUSING THEM, USING THEM, AND YOU KNOW, 17 YEARS LATER THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE ALREADY DIED OR ARE STILL IN THEIR ADDICTION IS STAGGERING, AND THAT'S ACROSS THE STATE.

THAT'S EVERYBODY.

AND THAT'S NOT JUST EVEN FOR PEOPLE IN MY GENERATION, THAT'S ALL OF US HERE THAT HAVE EXPERIENCED THAT AT SOME POINT.

LIKE, WE'RE SEVERAL LAYERS, IF NOT ONE DIRECT LAYER, OR PERSONALLY FROM EXPERIENCING THAT OURSELVES.

SO YEAH, IT NEEDS TO BE DISTRIBUTED IN A WAY THAT WILL SUPPORT RURAL HEALTH SYSTEMS AND JUST OUR RURAL PEOPLE.

>> Gene: WE'RE TALKING A COMBINED $775 MILLION.

TO MERRITT'S POINT, WHY AREN'T WE OUT BUILDING STUFF, LIKE RIGHT NOW?

THIS WOULD SEEM TO BE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REALLY GET AFTER THIS.

>> Shaun: THAT'S THE QUESTION I DON'T KNOW.

I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER TO THAT, AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO THINK ABOUT, AS TO WHAT IS STAGGERING TO THE STATE THAT'S GOING TO PREVENT US FROM SPENDING THIS IMMEDIATELY.

NOW, THERE ARE SOME LAYERS OF HOW THE STATE CAN DISTRIBUTE IT AND WHERE IT'S GOING TO GO, AND POTENTIAL INVESTMENT MIGHT ACTUALLY, LIKE, STORE THAT MONEY AWAY SO IT CAN GROW AND BUILD AND YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO TAP THAT FOR ANY TYPE OF IMMEDIATE INFRASTRUCTURE.

BUT I DON'T KNOW.

I REALLY WISH I COULD ANSWER THAT.

I KNOW THAT YOU NEED MY ANSWER FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

>> Gene: FAIR ENOUGH.

INTERESTING, MARTHA, THIS PAST SESSION, OPIOID PROBLEM BILLS LARGELY FAILED IN THE ROUNDHOUSE, AS I RECALL.

IT DIDN'T QUITE CONNECT THERE.

MIGHT THIS MONEY CHANGE SOME MINDS UP THERE THIS NEXT COMING SESSION?

>> Martha: WELL, LET'S HOPE SO.

THEY DIDN'T FAIL SO MUCH AS THEY JUST DIED.

THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED.

THEY NEVER GOT TO THE FLOOR.

AND IT'S BEEN SUCH A CRISIS, I AM AMAZED THAT THEY COULD NOT PRIORITIZE THAT LONG ENOUGH TO LOOK AT -- THERE WERE TWO BILLS, I BELIEVE, THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN GIVEN SOME SERIOUS CONSIDERATION, AND THAT DID NOT HAPPEN.

>> Gene: ONE OF THEM MIGHT HAVE BEEN HOUSE BILL 263.

IT WOULD HAVE CREATED OVERDOSE PREVENTION CENTERS WHERE DRUG USERS COULD SAFELY CONSUME CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES, SOUNDS VERY EUROPEAN, BUT THAT'S WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE FENTANYL.

AND THERE WAS HB263, FIRST INTRODUCED IN 2021.

LET ME KICK OVER HERE TO MERRITT AND LET'S STAY IN OUR LEGISLATURE.

WHAT DO THESE FOLKS NEED TO DO?

I WON'T SAY THEY'RE NOT TAKING IT SERIOUSLY, BUT SOMETHING'S NOT QUITE CONNECTING ON HOW TO ATTACK THE PROBLEM.

AGAIN, IS IT A $500 MILLION LEVER TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN?

>> Merritt: IT COULD BE.

I WAS REALLY PUZZLED BY THE LEGISLATURE THIS SESSION.

I MEAN, YOU LOOK AT THE GLARING NEED FOR CHILD WELFARE LEGISLATION AND NOTHING HAPPENED.

SO I DON'T KNOW THAT THE LEGISLATURE IS GOING TO BE THE ANSWER.

I THINK IT MAY HAVE TO BECOME AN EXECUTIVE PRIORITY, AND I DON'T LIKE THAT EITHER.

I DON'T LIKE GIVING TOO MUCH POWER TO A SINGLE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT, AND THAT'S WHAT WORRIES ME SO MUCH ABOUT GETTING HUGE WINDFALLS LIKE THIS, BECAUSE OUR GOVERNMENT IS NOT FUNCTIONING WELL AND IT'S NOT SERVING US WELL.

SO IN AN IDEAL WORLD, YES, THE LEGISLATURE WOULD TAKE THIS ACTION AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE THEM TO DO SO AND CONSIDER THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND THE NETWORK WE NEED TO ACTUALLY GET PEOPLE THE CARE THEY NEED, WHICH WE DO NOT HAVE RIGHT NOW.

I'M VERY WORRIED THAT IS GOING TO BE A WINDFALL THAT GOES NOWHERE.

>> Gene: I'M HEARING YOU, I'M ABSOLUTELY HEARING YOU.

SHAUN, INTERESTINGLY, ADDICTION AND SUBSTANCE USE DISORDERS IS NOT OUR ONLY PROBLEMS HERE.

I'M WONDERING -- I KNOW WE'RE GOING TO HAVE STIPULATIONS ON HOW THE MONEY CAN BE USED, BUT THERE'S AN ARGUMENT TO BE MADE THERE ARE OTHER IMPACTS OF DRUG USE, LIKE FENTANYL AND SUCH, THAT COULD USE SOME INFUSION OF CAPITAL, AS WELL.

DO YOU ANTICIPATE PERHAPS A BATTLE OVER HOW WE CAN USE THIS MONEY?

BECAUSE JUST USING IT FOR OPIOID ABATEMENT, AGAIN, THAT'S A VERY WIDE TUNNEL TO DRIVE THROUGH.

A LOT OF THINGS COULD FIT IN THERE, SO TO SPEAK.

ANY ANTICIPATION THERE?

>> Shaun: I MEAN, YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE PROVIDERS OF FENTANYL, AND I DON'T THINK THAT THE AG IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO SUE ANY CARTELS AND WIN A SETTLEMENT.

SO YEAH, THEIR PREDICTION COULD POTENTIALLY BE AN ISSUE WHERE, HEY, LOOK, THIS IS OUR CURRENT ADDICTION CRISIS RIGHT NOW, AND FENTANYL IS AT THE PEAK RIGHT NOW.

WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO COME AFTER THAT.

SO THERE COULD BE ANOTHER DRUG AND ANOTHER ADDICTION ISSUE THAT COMES THROUGH, BECAUSE IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT THE UNITED STATES HAS LOST THE WAR ON DRUGS AND AMERICANS LOVE THEIR DRUGS.

THE ADDICTION ISSUES HERE, ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND WHAT WE SEE IN THE STATE, ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE, THEY'RE ONLY ACCELERATING INTO HIGHER AND HIGHERS DOSES.

>> Gene: THAT MAKES MY QUESTION TO MARTHA MORE INTERESTING STILL.

THESE FUNDS WILL BE ALLOCATED OVER 15 YEARS.

IS THERE A REASONABLE TIME WE CAN EXPECT RESULTS FROM SOMETHING LIKE THIS?

ARE WE AT THAT PLACE IN SOCIETY, IN TEN YEARS WE WANT THIS BETTER, IN FIVE YEARS WE WANT THIS BETTER?

ARE WE THERE YET?

>> Martha: WELL, IF YOU'VE GOT ANY PLAN, YOU GOT TO SAY, WHAT'S THE FIRST THING WE DO, AND GENE, I AM ASTOUNDED THAT THIS HAS BEEN IN LITIGATION FOR YEARS.

WHY ISN'T THERE ALREADY A PLAN?

THEY HAD TO KNOW THAT THIS WAS COMING.

THEY DIDN'T KNOW HOW MUCH, BUT THE STEPS COULD HAVE BEEN OUTLINED.

AND NOW WE'RE CAUGHT FLAT-FOOTED, FRANKLY.

MERRITT IS RIGHT THERE'S NO PLAN, THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN A PLAN.

>> Gene: DO YOU TRUST A PLAN THAT'S GOING TO BE HURRIEDLY PUT TOGETHER?

>> Martha: NOT MUCH, NO.

AND ONE THING, YEAH, THEY GOT WALGREEN'S AND SOME OF THE LEGITIMATE PROVIDERS.

NOT A WORD ABOUT THE ILLEGAL MANUFACTURERS OF FENTANYL.

NOTHING.

WHAT IS BEING DONE ABOUT THAT?

ARE THEY TRYING TO SEE WHO THEY ARE, WHERE THEY ARE, AND WHAT IS THEIR SUPPLY CHAIN?

WALGREEN'S AND THE REST OF THEM, THEY PROBABLY DID A COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS AND SAID, WE'RE GOING TO MAKE MORE MONEY ON FENTANYL THAN WE'RE GOING TO PAY OUT IN SETTLEMENT.

BUT THE ILLEGAL FOLKS SEEM TO ME TO JUST BE OFF THE RADAR.

>> Gene: INTERESTING POINT THERE.

I WISH WE HAD MORE TIME FOR THIS, IT'S A BIG ONE FOR NEW MEXICO.

BUT THANKS AGAIN TO OUR LINE PANEL AS ALWAYS THIS WEEK.

BE SURE TO LET US KNOW ABOUT ANY OF THE TOPICS THESE FOLKS COVERED ON OUR FACEBOOK, TWITTER OR INSTAGRAM PAGES, AND CATCH ANY EPISODES YOU MAY HAVE MISSED ON THE PBS APP, WHICH IS PRETTY COOL, YOUR ROKU, OR YOUR SMART TV.

THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US AND FOR STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK, IN FOCUS.

>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.