Narrator: Presentation of Idaho Reports on Idaho Public Television is made possible through the generous support of the Laura Moore Cunningham Foundation, committed to fulfilling the Moore and Bettis family legacy of building the great state of Idaho.

By the Friends of Idaho Public Television and by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

Melissa Davlin: After 16 years in the Senate, President Pro Tem Chuck Winder lost his primary election in a surprise to many.

This week he joins us to discuss whether he would have done anything differently.

I'm Melissa Davlin, The last Idaho Reports of our 52nd season starts now.

Hello and welcome to Idaho Reports.

This week, Senate President Pro Tem Chuck Winder joins us to discuss his loss in last week's primary election and his 16 years in the Idaho Senate.

Then Kevin Richert of Idaho Education News joins us to talk about what's next in the attempted University of Phoenix acquisition.

But first, two teams of Idaho State Police troopers returned from the US-Mexico border this week.

Governor Brad Little's office said the troopers were there to learn more about curbing both human and drug trafficking.

Governor Little first sent Ispy troopers to the border in May 2023 as part of his efforts to combat fentanyl trafficking in the U.S. and Idaho.

Last week, a Kootenai County jury returned a unanimous verdict in favor of a Post Falls drag performer who sued a local blogger for defamation after she accused him on social media of exposing himself in front of children at a Coeur d'Alene Pride festival performance in 2022.

According to the Coeur d'Alene press, jurors viewed the edited video that circulated on social media as well as the original unedited video, and concluded that the blogger's claims were made knowing they were false and with reckless disregard for the truth.

The jury awarded over $1 million in damages.

The decision comes as lawmakers and communities across the state continue to debate whether drag performances are appropriate for children or acceptable in public spaces, and whether libraries should allow materials that acknowledge same sex couple The lawsuit over the attempted sale of the former Idaho Transportation Department campus is getting more interesting.

A trio of developers who had started the process of purchasing the property have filed suit with the Idaho Supreme Court, challenging the two agency budgets that block the sale.

Attorney General Raul Labrador has responded on behalf of the state, defending the decision to halt the sale.

Meanwhile, Governor Brad Little has appointed a private attorney to represent ITD and the Department of Administration.

That attorney concedes the budgets may violate the state constitution and asks the courts to give the agencies guidance.

And separately House speaker Mike Moyle has also intervened on behalf of the legislature.

It's complicated, it's messy, and we have much more on the case and each party's arguments on our website at IdahoReports.org One of the biggest and best ways to save money in corrections is to stop people from getting roped up in the justice system in the first place.

Idaho has 12 youth assessment centers across the state targeted at keeping kids out of the system and instead helping families with their needs before their problems get worse.

The centers are one reason juvenile incarceration in the state has decreased.

Earlier this year, producer Ruth Brown visited one center in Burley to learn more about the services they offer and how they help youth.

Brad Little: Here's an example from juvenile corrections.

The progress we made in standing up Youth crisis centers and safe Teen assessment Centers around the state has contributed to a reassuring trend.

Over the past five years, even with a growing population, the number of juveniles in state custody has dropped by half.

Ruth Brown: That's a line from Governor Brad Little's 2024 state of the State address.

Idaho Reports visited the state's first youth assessment center to learn about the benefits they have to offer and some of the kids they help.

The goal for youth assessment is not just to keep kids out of detention, but to keep them out of the system entirely.

That means avoiding going before a judge, avoiding foster care, and instead focusing on helping the child and their family.

Nancy Winmill: When I learned more about what was happening with the juvenile justice system and how kids were entering in through small offenses or first time offenses, and how they would stay in the system for a really long time.

It became a passion project for Sherry and myself and the rest of the staff to get these kids in these families an alternative to ending up being in the justice system for a really long time, that they would have an opportunity to get help and resources.

Brown: The state now has 12 youth assessment centers, up from the previous 8.

They're designed to keep kids out of juvenile detention, out of foster care, and offer family resources.

The first to be established started in Burley at Simply Hope.

The Idaho Department of Juvenile Corrections values the assessment centers as a starting point for helping kids rather than incarcerating them.

Monty Prow: Certainly our kids are not unique to kids in the past.

Challenging issues, substance use in home, either themselves or their parents, mental health issues, either themselves or their parents.

What the assessment centers are going to allow is a lot, a lot quicker access to those services than introducing that youth to the formal system by way of a charge that they might pick up on themselves, but really a lot quicker access to those services than maybe we had before, which then the quicker the access, the better the outcome traditionally.

And you can start seeing kids take that off-ramp versus continuing down the on-ramp of, potentially a corrections future.

Brown: The youth assessment centers are just one piece of the puzzle for helping youth in need, but they have made progress.

Prow: About 70% of Idahoans are within an hour of assessment center at the moment.

Some of those assessment centers offer virtual options, which is great.

So in the future, looking to increase the amount of kids and families have access to a physical center within that hour would be wonderful, I think.

I told a committee I was in front of once and that I'm actively working with get myself out of a job.

Which my wife wasn't happy to hear, but I'm, I would be honored to be the last juvenile corrections director.

Brown: This year, the legislature significantly reduced the amount of funding youth assessment centers will receive.

Initially, the state gave the centers $10.6 million over two years, but the intent was that they would eventually be self-sustaining.

In 2024 the legislature appropriated $350,000 to the centers for some enhancement programs.

Alison Tate: Kids that are formally processed or incarcerated are more likely to recidivate.

They're more likely to have another crime, less likely to graduate from high school, less likely to get a job.

So we're seeing those families with those same exact issues, but we're able to take maybe a closer look at what's really going on in the family.

Brown: That's Allison Tate, the Ada County juvenile services director.

Ada County has a youth assessment center called The Bridge, which offers those same resources.

Rather than send a child to juvenile detention, the bridge can help the family before criminal charges enter the picture.

So how are kids sent to an assessment center?

Celia Walters: They get referred either through the school or juvenile justice, parent referral or even self referral.

They can just walk in when they come in.

We're just looking for if they are suicidal, if they're angry, depressed, if there has been self-harm.

Those are our main concerns and just kind of see where they're at.

So the Macy, the Massachusetts Adolescent Youth Screener, looks at depression, anxiety, anger, somatic complaint, trauma.

That disturbance suicidal ideation thoughts behaviors.

So we're just getting a snapshot just to see where they're at right now and what their needs are.

Brown: Youth assessment centers are different than crisis centers in that they are not open 24 hours a day and don't offer some of the resources a crisis center may have for a person in emergent need of care.

Walters: Case management is the main service, but through case management we can help with any needs or resources.

So it's not just for the youth, it's for the whole family.

So if there's food instability, if there's lack of basic needs, we have resources in the community that we can connect them with.

And get them the help.

Brown: Since opening, the Burley location has seen 234 kids as of January 25th, most of which needed mental health services.

Walters: So the majority of the kids we saw, about 39% of them were mental health and 27 was suicide risk or self-harm.

Brown: One of those kids in need was Ty Gibbons, a 19 year old senior at Burley High.

Ty Gibbons: My mom referred me to Teen Hope and, what was kind of going on was I was just kind of going through a dark time in my life and in our community, we got a great community, there's just not a ton of sources where we can turn to for this type of stuff.

But here I came in to Ten Hope and it was a great place to start.

I think for kids that are struggling with, not just mental health, but with like other aspects of life, I think open therapy is just something that a lot of kids need.

Especially with distributing factors like social media and a lot of things that weigh kids down nowadays.

Brown: The program also offers deterrence programs for kids who are caught for the first time vaping or for facing truancy tickets.

Walters: So they get referred to us by the school.

They do a six week program for vaping, and it's mainly education.

They're so smart.

They already know all the risks and everything, but it's just making them more aware and helping them to make a better choice for themselves.

Our truancy program is Wednesdays, they come from 5 to 6 for 6 to 10 weeks, depending.

So if they've been coming six weeks and are missing school, then they have to come back and meet with the case manager and we have to address those issues.

We do have an incentive program for the kids in truancy.

So every two weeks if they haven't missed school, they get, a gift card.

So it starts with like just a soda or a coffee and then it goes up.

Brown: Truancy is also an issue that isn't always done with criminal intent Walters says.

Walters: This is a first offense.

This is the first time, for whatever reason, a lot of the families are low income and they use the kids as babysitters so they miss school to take care of their younger siblings and stuff.

So these kids do not need to be in the juvenile system.

They need help.

They need resources.

But sending them straight to probation just utilizes those resources on a kid that may not really need them.

Brown: For 15 year old Star Morin, a Cassia high school student, getting caught vaping and being sent to the Youth Assessment Center turned out to be a good thing.

She was provided counseling and continues coming to Simply Hope's youth programing, even after completing the vaping classes.

Star Morin: When there's programs like this, it gives us hope that there's people who care and people who help us in times of need.

Davlin: The biggest story from last week's primary election was Senate President Pro Tem Chuck Winder losing to Josh Keyser.

I sat down with Winder this week to talk about the race, whether he would have done anything differently and what might be next for him.

Thanks so much for joining us this week.

Were you surprised at the primary results?

Chuck Winder: Yeah I was.

Disappointed is probably a better word.

You know, I had an uphill battle, I think, with all the out of state money that was spent on a lot of elections around our state, so that was disappointing.

I think the party worked against me.

They helped my opponent.

My opponent didn't really have much of a campaign, but it was kind of an anti-Winder vote.

I think that played out in it.

We had a low turnout in the primary.

And, as a result, the voters have spoken and we have a new member of the Senate starting the 1st of December.

Davlin: You have a few new members of the Senate starting in December.

There were a lot of negative campaigns all around the state, and a lot of them weren't successful.

Yours was different.

What were some other factors that you think contributed to your loss?

Winder: I think the redistricting.

You know, the last, two years ago when I ran, I won I think, by about 800 votes.

The makeup of my district was a lot of really new people, a lot of people that had moved here as I went from door to door.

They'd been here for maybe 2, 3 or 4 years and moved here from California, Oregon, Washington.

They didn't know me from Adam, so I think they were more open to hear the negative things.

And say, oh, he's been there too long and kind of that, you know, get the incumbents out.

And, so I think that was part of it.

And I ended up losing, I think, by 280 votes or so.

But I think that played a big part in it with just all the new people in the district that don't know me from Adam.

Davlin: Over the past few years, you've had some pretty public fights with members of the Freedom Caucus and other, more conservative members of the Senate.

Would you have done anything differently?

Winder: No, I think, you know, one of the interesting things about being in leadership is you have to exercise, protect the institute, protect your members.

And sometimes that requires disciplining your own members.

And, so, I think, you know, the things that I did with, Senator Lenny or Zuiderveld, Herndon, were things that I would do again.

You might do them a little bit differently, but I think it really needed to be done.

And, I think you have to protect that institution.

You have to protect the just the whole civility.

If you can't talk about difficult issues in that forum, where can you?

And I don't think you ought to attack individual members.

Davlin: You said you might have done them a little bit differently.

What would you have done differently?

Winder: Well, I think, you know, maybe acted sooner.

There were discussions during the session, but once we were in the interim, it was more difficult to communicate directly face to face.

So I think, you know, if timing had been a little different, I probably would have sat them down and just said, hey, here's what we're going to do rather than just, you know, sending a letter to them in the interim.

Davlin: There's been a lot of change in the Senate since you were first elected 16 years ago.

And I wanted to talk a little bit about that makeup of the Idaho Senate.

When you were first elected and when I first started covering the Senate, it wasn't uncommon to have members who had been serving for 20, 30 years.

You're the most senior member of the Senate now at 16 years.

And that's going to change, I think the most senior member will have been there for 12 years at this point after December.

How does that change how the body operates?

Winder: Well, I think, you know, the good thing is there's still really good people there.

I think there's an opportunity for the, you know, the caucus to come together and elect some experience.

And that's, you know, hopefully what they'll do.

Because I think you, in order to do the job of majority leader or pro tem, you have to have some experience.

You have to have served in other roles of leadership.

You have to understand the rules.

You have to understand the precedents.

You have to understand kind of the institution itself.

And I think, you know, when you're in those roles, you better have people with experience.

Or if you don't, then I think it's going to be a, you know, Wild West show, perhaps even like the House has been for many years.

Davlin: At the same time, a lot of voters have a lot of distaste for the idea of career politicians.

We saw that pop up during the election.

We've had conversations about term limits for decades in this country and in this state.

Do you think overall it's a good thing to have some new bodies and new ideas in the institution?

Winder: You know, I think it is, but I think you also, you can't just switch it all over.

That's the interesting thing about Idaho, even in the Senate, we have to run every two years.

We're one of the few in the country that do that.

So every two years the voters can decide whether there's term limits or not.

So I think, you know, at the national level, you get into a different situation.

I think, you know, there are a lot of us that would like to see term limits at the national level.

I think at the local level where you basically are elected every two years, then I don't think you necessarily need to have term limits.

I think the voters can decide.

Davlin: Over the last 16 years, what are you most proud of?

Winder: I think just my involvement in, you know, helping my constituents, with, you know, issues with health and welfare with, you know, whatever the issue might be, just, you know, the Department of Transportation.

Dealing with, you know, issues that help constituents.

But I think in the long run, the things I've done with education, the things I've done in transportation, the things I've done with some of the social issues and protecting life in our state.

I think those are all things that I look back on and say, hey, you know, you did a good job.

You did the best you could at the time, and you accomplished a lot.

I think, you know, supporting the Garvi program in transportation saved literally hundreds of lives around our state.

I think we've saved hundreds of babies, you know, through some of the acts that we've put in place.

I think in education, we've improved our education.

We pay our teachers better.

We're trying to put more emphasis on, you know, the quality of education and outcome.

Parental choice, those types of things.

So I think it's, you know, it's been a good 16 years for me.

Davlin: Is there anything that you didn't accomplish that you wish you had been able to?

Winder: Yeah, I think there are some things, you know, as I look back.

Senator Lodge tried for many years to put more transparency into the, what we call dark money or out-of-state money or even sometimes it comes from in-state, where it, you know, you don't, they're running ugly things about you, but they don't report.

There needs to be some things done, I think there, to clean up that and to improve our sunshine laws.

We did one little thing last year that made a change this year, and that was, requiring national PACs that are normally involved in federal elections to have to register in Idaho.

And we saw that, and so we know where a lot of this crazy money came from in this race.

Otherwise we might not have known.

Davlin: I know a lot of times that folks who are in the legislature, in elected office, have to be careful about what they say about issues that are in front of them, or bills that have just passed.

Whether it's because you have to continue working with your colleagues or because you have an election up.

You don't have to worry about that as much anymore.

Is there anything you'd like to say, you know what, I told you so.

Winder: I don't know.

I mean, the most recent thing probably is the ITD campus sale.

You know, there was a lot of speculation that they had nothing to sue them on.

That they couldn't force a sale.

But, they're in front of the Supreme Court.

We'll see what you know, what happens there.

But I think the state's open to a lot of exposure, on that from a legal and potentially, financial exposure, let alone the things that I disagreed with that JFAC did, in the way they, forced them to move two years ago and then forced them back now.

And have spent, you know, almost $100 million, and haven't accomplished much with it.

Davlin: What's next for you?

Winder: You know, I don't know.

I've had lots of opportunities already, you know, presented.

Going to take some time and just, cool my heels a little bit, spend a little more time with my family and do a little traveling over the summer and maybe a little golf and just relax a little bit and see what comes next.

Davlin: All right, Senate President Pro Tem Chuck Winder, thanks so much for joining us.

Winder: You're welcome.

Thank you for having me.

Davlin: It's been about a year since we learned about the University of Idaho's attempts to acquire the University of Phoenix, and a lot has happened since then and in the past week.

Here to break it down is Kevin Richert of Idaho Education News.

Kevin, just to recap, what are some of the lingering questions and uncertainty surrounding the acquisition leading up to today?

Kevin Richert: I mean, the biggest question that we had coming out of the 2024 legislative session was, is this deal still alive, or is this deal dead because the House and the Senate, both in different ways, voted against proceeding with this purchase.

This $685 million purchase.

Scott Green, the president of the University of Idaho, has maintained all along that he felt like the deal was still alive.

We got a little bit more detail about that this week.

We reported earlier this week about some internal State Board of Education emails that indicated that what Phoenix's owner would like to do is continue to talk to the University of Idaho, but they want to talk to other potential buyers as well.

So that opens up the options for them to look at different potential buyers.

What it also means for the University of Idaho potentially, is if the U of I's offer doesn't go through, it's possible that the U of I would get some money back.

Breakup fees, for lack of a better term, money that would cover some of the due diligence costs that the university has laid out in reviewing the potential purchase.

So a lot of things are still up in the air, but at least for the time being, it looks like there's still some discussion going on.

Davlin: Some discussion.

The deal is not dead yet, to be clear.

Right.

Richert: And we were looking at May 31st all along.

We've talked about this before.

May 31st was an opt out date for either Phoenix's group or the U of I to walk away from the bargaining table.

That's not going to happen.

U of I says that both parties are going to stay at the table at least until the end of June, so that's another month.

Obviously, this is something we'll keep watching now on more like a month to month basis to see where it's going.

Davlin: This information came from a big public records request that you submitted for emails about the deal.

What else did you learn from those communications?

Richert: We got a really interesting behind the scenes look at what was going on between the state board, among the state board members, among the parties who were pushing for this purchase.

And what was unfolding during the legislative session.

I broke that out into a large story that we published on Thursday.

And the highlights to me, it gave me a sense, and I hope it gives readers a sense, of just how the state board of Education was watching this debate unfold and unravel at the state House.

Now, numerous attempts that they were trying to make to try to get messaging out as they saw momentum shifting against the proposal and they felt that the momentum was shifting against the state board itself.

So that all kind of unfolds in the email trail that I write about.

Also what you see are hints of some fractures amongst the folks who were all on the same side of the Phoenix purchase, you know, the Phoenix-Apollo groups, the State Board, U of I, the governor's office, all more or less aligned with the idea of this deal going through.

You got a sense of some of the tensions amongst those supporters.

And I tried to capture all of that in a piece that we published on Thursday.

Davlin: Just a preview for those who haven't seen your piece that came out yesterday, what were some of those fractures?

Richert: Well, in late February, Matt Freeman, who the outgoing, executive director at the state board, complained that he felt like there were members of the legislature and members of the media who were vilifying the state board and impugning the state board's motives on this.

And he felt like, you know, while the state board had had to stay silent during the lawsuit, the attorney general's lawsuit, because of the attorney general's lawsuit, he felt like it was time for the state board to go on the offensive, to talk more about the process and the merits of the deal.

There was an attempt to have a town hall meeting at the state house in March that never came to fruition.

The question that is left unresolved in these emails is, did the University of Idaho oppose the idea of this town hall meeting?

They say they didn't.

Freeman's emails indicate that maybe they did.

There was an attempt to kind of get out with a guest opinion, that never saw the light of day, although it was part of, what I got in the emails.

It's unclear who spiked that guest opinion explaining the state board's position on the purchase.

There's a lot of behind the scenes intrigue that comes out.

And it really kind of goes to the question of messaging and trying to recover political momentum, behind a deal that was really, you know, on shaky ground as the session unfolded.

Davlin: As we discussed, we've already heard speculation that this deal might be on life support, and it's not dead yet.

But bottom line, are you hearing more doubts from your sources than you did a couple weeks ago?

Richert: I just have more doubts personally, just because there are going to be a lot of changes at the legislature in 2025.

If this deal is still viable when the legislature reconvenes in January.

Let's let's recap here.

Matt Freeman, the executive director of the state board, kind of their go to at the state House day to day, he's stepping down as executive director.

Chuck Winder, the Senate president pro tem, maybe the most prominent supporter of the Phoenix deal with the legislature this year.

He was voted out in the primaries last week, among 15 legislators who were voted out.

And it really prominently a lot of Scott Green's allies at the state House, folks like Winder, Julie Yamamoto, the chair of the House Education Committee, they were voted out in spite of the fact that Green gave money to these candidates.

And that's something that is definitely not going to be lost on legislators.

It's very unusual to see a university president contribute to a campaign.

That's something I've been writing about for several weeks, because it's so unusual.

There's going to be a lot of different players.

But I think what you'll see, again, legislators are going to want to weigh in on this issue if it is still an issue next January.

Davlin: We have about a minute and a half left.

But along with those 15 incumbents being voted out, we also saw a number of levees for school districts across the state fail last Tuesday.

We're starting to see some of the consequences of that vote.

Richert: Yeah, it really isn't taking long.

We had a meeting in Caldwell this week, as that district comes to grips with the loss of a $4.1 million supplemental levy.

To put that into perspective, that's about 10% of their budget.

So it's a pretty big chunk out of their day to day budget.

You need to remember when we're talking about supplemental levies, unlike bond issues, the supplemental levies, a lot of that is used just for day to day expenses.

A lot of districts use it to help cover teacher pay, or to cover teacher benefits.

It covers things like extracurriculars.

It covers a lot of different things that just kind of keep the schools running.

So we'll watch Caldwell.

They're going to have a budget hearing on June 10th, another meeting in between.

So we'll keep a close eye on what's happening there.

Davlin: It's our last show of the season.

School's out for the summer.

Legislature's done, primaries done.

What are you going to be watching over the summer before the general election?

Richert: I'm going to try to, you know, tie a little bit of a bow around Idaho Launch next week, and look at the future of the program and how it unfolded this first year.

That's a piece I'm hoping to break out next week.

But Phoenix doesn't quite go away.

We've got a Supreme Court hearing on the attorney general's open meetings lawsuit that comes up in the middle of June.

So it'll be a slower summer, but it won't be a slow summer.

Davlin: On, more broadly speaking, not just education.

The Idaho GOP convention, the Democratic convention, all coming up in the next few weeks.

Lots to cover.

Kevin Richert, Idaho Education News.

Thank you so much for your great work, and thank you for watching.

This is our last show of the season.

We'll be back in October.

And in the meantime, you can find our work online at IdahoReports.org Have a great summer and we'll see you back here in the fall.

Narrator: Presentation of Idaho Reports on Idaho Public Television is made possible through the generous support of the Laura Moore Cunningham Foundation, committed to fulfilling the Moore and Bettis family legacy of building the great state of Idaho.

By the Friends of Idaho Public Television and by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.