>> Cathy: THE METROPOLITAN COUNCIL HAS BEEN THE SOURCE OF ONGOING ISSUES; NOTABLY, LIGHT RAIL CONSTRUCTION THAT HAS BEEN BEHIND SCHEDULE AND OVER BUDGET BY BILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND A LACK OF OVERSIGHT OVER THAT PROJECT.

LAST YEAR THE LEGISLATURE FORMED A BIPARTISAN TASK FORCE TO LOOK INTO RESTRUCTURING THE MET COUNCIL.

ON THURSDAY THAT GROUP RELEASED ITS FINAL REPORT AND RECOMMENDATIONS.

HERE WITH US NOW FROM THE TASK FORCE IS THE CHAIR OF THE SENATE TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE D.F.L.

SENATOR SCOTT DIBBLE AND THE SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE'S RANKING MINORITY MEMBER REPUBLICAN SENATOR ERIC PRATT.

GOOD TO SEE YOU BOTH.

WELCOME.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Cathy: SENATOR DIBBLE, SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT THE MET COUNCIL DETRACTORS ALWAYS POINT TO, ACCOUNTABILITY, TRANSPARENCY, MISSION CREEP.

WHAT DID YOU ALL FIND WHEN IT COMES TO SOME OF THESE ISSUES?

>> EXACTLY THAT.

SO WE HAVE THE METROPOLITAN COUNCIL IS A LARGE GOVERNMENT THAT PROVIDES A LOT OF DIRECT SERVICES THAT TOUCH PEOPLE'S EVERYDAY LIVES IN THE TWIN CITIES.

TRANSIT AND METRO MOBILITY BEING KEY AMONG THOSE, OUR SEWER SERVICES, SOME HOUSING SERVICES, COORDINATING PARKS, LAND USE, DEVELOPMENT, AND THE LIKE.

YOU KNOW, VERY, VERY MUCH AFFECTS OUR LIVES.

CONTROLS BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, APPROPRIATES BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, TAXES US, AND OWNS AND OPERATES BILLIONS IN ASSETS AS WELL.

>> Eric: THIS IS LIKE TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION, ISN'T IT?

I MEAN, THE WAY THEY -- AS AN UNELECTED BODY AS AN EXAMPLE.

>> YEAH, I THINK IT S. THERE'S A LOT OF WAYS THAT WE CAN ADDRESS THAT AND I THINK THE TASK FORCE LOOKED AT A NUMBER OF WAYS THAT WE COULD RECTIFY THAT SITUATION.

BUT WE DON'T HAVE ELECTED OFFICIALS MAKING TAX DECISIONS.

>> Eric: AND THE SIX OPTIONS ARE FROM SOUP TO NUTS HERE.

WHAT HAVE YOU GOT IN MIND ACROSS THE WHOLE HORIZON?

>> SO THERE'S Y PLAN, WHICH PROVIDES FOR DIRECT ELECTION, WHICH I THINK IS APPROPRIATE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, UNLIKE OTHER WHAT WE CALL METROPOLITAN PLANNING ORGANIZATIONS WHICH ENGAGE IN JUST PLANNING AND COORDINATING AND CREATING POLICY DOCUMENTS, LIKE I MENTIONED BEFORE, IT HAS ALL THESE ERY DIRECT SERVICES AND WHEN THERE'S A PROBLEM WITH THE SERVICES OR SOMEONE HAS AN IDEA OR WANTS TO ACCESS SOMEONE TO RESPOND TO THEM, THERE'S NO ONE TO CALL.

OR YOU CAN CALL AND NO ONE CALLS YOU BACK, IT'S VERY FRUSTRATING.

ON THE OTHER HAND, WE DO REALLY NEED TO BE VERY COORDINATED AND HAVE A VERY POWERFUL RELATIONSHIP WITH CITY COUNCILS, COUNTY COMMISSIONS, TOWN BOARDS.

AND SO THERE'S A SECONDARY GROUP THAT WOULD BE COMPRISED OF THOSE ELECTED INDIVIDUALS, A COUNCIL OF GOVERNMENTS THAT WOULD HAVE SOME AUTHORITY OVER WHAT THE ELECTED ENTITY OES.

THEY'D HAVE TO COOPERATE IN PLANNING, THEY COULD HELP THEM MAKE DIFFERENT DECISIONS, VETO THEIR DECISIONS IF THERE'S A REAL PROBLEM.

>> Eric: IS IT HENNEPIN AND RAMSEY AGAINST THE REST OF THE COUNTIES?

MAYBE THROW DAKOTA IN THERE, MORE EXURBAN COUNTIES, MORE FRICTION WITH THE MET COUNCIL, OR IS THAT NOT RIGHT?

>> NO, I DON'T THINK THAT'S RIGHT.

WE WENT TO RAMSEY, WE WENT TO HENNEPIN.

I THINK AS WE TALKED TO ELECTED OFFICIALS, AS WE TALKED TO RESIDENTS ACROSS THE METRO THERE'S SOME DISSATISFACTION WITH THE METROPOLITAN COUNCIL AND ITS ACCOUNTABILITY.

WE HAD THREE VERSIONS OF A COUNCIL OF GOVERNMENTS THAT WERE ADOPTED AS WELL AS ONE DIRECT ELECT, PURE DIRECT ELECT AND ONE THAT KIND OF KEEPS THE METROPOLITAN COUNCIL AT THE STATUS QUO.

YOU KNOW, I HAVE A PLAN THAT'S SIMPLER, WE PASSED IT IN 2018 WITH BIPARTISAN VOTES.

BUT IT'S BEEN AOF AMENDED BECAUSE WE DID LEARN A LOT THROUGH THE PROCESS.

OUR MET COUNCIL IS SMALLER, AN AVERAGE MET COUNCIL REPRESENTATIVE REPRESENTS AS MANY PEOPLE AS TWO AND A HALF SENATE DISTRICTS.

>> Eric: OH, WOW.

>> SO THE QUESTION IS HOW CAN THEY BE ACCOUNTABLE TO PEOPLE IN THEIR AREA WHEN THEY HAVE AN AREA THAT LARGE?

>> Eric: YOU PROBABLY -- LATE '80S, MET COUNCIL, THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN A CAN THAT'S KICKED DOWN THE ROAD.

>> I ACTUALLY HAD THE SEAT THAT HE HAD, I WAS IN THE SENATE WHILE HE WAS ON THE HOUSE.

HE CONTINUES TO BE MY CONSTITUENTS, HE WAS N THIS BODY TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE IDEAS HE'S HAD.

WE PASSED ELECT A MET COUNCIL IN THE PAST AS WELL.

>> Eric: THIS YEAR?

>> HOPE SPRINGS ETERNAL.

>> Eric: THE TRANSIT THING IS I THINK WHERE MOST PEOPLE HAVE BEEN CRITICAL OF THE MET COUNCIL, AND SEPARATE ENTITIES, YOU SAY, TO DO THE TRANSPORTATION PLANNING AND FUNDING AND ALL THAT?

>> NO, I WOULD KEEP BOTH THE OPERATIONS AND THE PLANNING TOGETHER.

LIKE I SAID BEFORE, MAKE IT INFINITELY MORE RESPONSIVE, MORE CREDIBLE, HAVE LEGITIMACY, HAVE THAT ESSENTIAL RELATIONSHIP WITH THE PEOPLE OF THE REGION THAT IT SERVES BUT ALSO HAVE A VERY IMPORTANT DYNAMIC RELATIONSHIP WITH THE OTHER ELECTED OFFICIALS WITH WHOM THEY NEED TO COORDINATE, CITY COUNCILS, COUNTY COMMISSIONS, THE TOWN BOARDS.

I THINK THAT'S A VERY, VERY IMPORTANT INTERACTION TO HAVE.

>> Eric: YEAH.

>> BUT RIGHT NOW WE HAVE THIS INCREDIBLY POWERFUL GOVERNMENT THAT IS ENTIRELY RUN OUT OF VIEW WITH NO LEVEL OF ACCOUNTABILITY BY BUREAUCRATS, NAMELESS FACELESS BUREAUCRATS, YOU KNOW, THE PROVERBIAL.

>> Eric: SURE.

>> AND IT'S FRUSTRATING FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.

>> Cathy: I'M SURE IT IS.

I WONDER, YOU KNOW, DOES THERE REALLY NEED TO BE A MET COUNCIL?

WHY NOT JUST GO BACK TO LOCAL CONTROL ON THE LOCAL LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT FOR SOME OF THIS?

>> WELL, AND I THINK THIS IS WHERE SENATOR DIBBLE AND I HAVE A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION IN THAT WHAT SHOULD THE SCOPE OF THE MET COUNCIL BE?

OUR MET COUNCIL HAS MORE AUTHORITY THAN PROBABLY ANY OTHER REGIONAL GOVERNMENT IN THE COUNTRY.

AND YET, YOU KNOW, LET'S TAKE TRANSIT, FOR EXAMPLE.

THEY'RE DOING TRANSIT OPERATIONS BUT THEY'RE ALSO DOING TRANSIT PLANNING AND MANY OF US BELIEVE THAT THERE'S A CONFLICT OF INTEREST THERE, THAT THOSE TWO ON SHOULD BE SEPARATED.

WE HAVE, WE'RE ONE OF THE FEW METROPOLITAN AREAS WITH MULTIPLE TRANSIT PROVIDERS SO MY AREA IS SERVICED BY MINNESOTA VALLEY TRANSIT AUTHORITY AND WE HAVE OTHER SUBURBAN TRANSIT AUTHORITIES THAT ARE PROVIDING SERVICES.

SO IT'S NOT THE MONOPOLY THAT YOU FIND IN OTHER METROPOLITAN AREAS AND WHY I THINK WE HAVE TO HAVE LOCAL ELECTED OFFICIALS WITH A SEAT AT THE TABLE TO HELP THE LEGISLATURE DECIDE WHAT SERVICES SHOULD BE REGIONAL, WHAT SERVICES ARE BETTER DONE AT THE COUNTY AND THE CITY LEVEL.

>> Eric: IS THERE BIPARTISAN AGREEMENT THAT SOMETHING COULD GET DONE, OR?

>> I THINK SO.

AND ACTUALLY SENATOR PRATT AND I ACTUALLY AGREE MORE THAN WE DISAGREE.

MY PLAN HAS A COUNCIL OF GOVERNMENTS AND THE PLANNING FUNCTION IS SHARED EQUALLY BY THE ELECTED MET COUNCIL AND THE COUNCIL OF GOVERNMENTS.

THAT'S AN IMPORTANT THING TO HAVE HAPPEN.

BUT WHO WILL OWN AND OPERATE AND BE RESPONSIBLE AND BE ON THE HOOK FOR THE DELIVERY OF THE ERVICES, THAT HAS TO BE -- >> Cathy: IT SOUNDS LIKE BECAUSE YOU'VE OT SIX OPTIONS INSTEAD OF AGREEING ON ONE IT SOUNDS LIKE TOUGH SLEDDING FOR ANYTHING TO HAPPEN AT THE LEGISLATURE ON THIS.

WOULD YOU AGREE?

>> I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THIS GETS ADDRESSED AT THE LEGISLATURE.

IN MANY CASES WE'RE FINDING IT'S NOT A REPUBLICAN/DEMOCRAT SPLIT, IT'S MORE OF AN URBAN, SUBURBAN SPLIT ON HOW THE MET COUNCIL -- WE'VE HEARD FROM RESIDENTS HOW THE URBAN RESIDENTS ARE MUCH DIFFERE