>> "ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.

>> ERIC: COMING UP ON "ALMANAC," AN ARREST IN THE FIRE THAT TOTALED THE HISTORIC LUTSEN LODGE, IMMIGRATION RAIDS IN THE TWIN CITIES, A DOMINIC PAPATOLA ESSAY.

AND MARY LAHAMMER HAS BEEN TRACKING A BUSY POLITICAL WEEK IN MINNESOTA.

>> Mary: THE STATE BUDGET FORECAST SHOWS A SURPLUS AND THEN A SHORTFALL AMIDST INCREASING ATTENTION OVER FRAUD IN GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS.

WE'LL PROVIDE PERSPECTIVE.

>> THEY'RE DOING THE FORENSICS, IT'S OUTSIDE OF THIS.

THESE ARE INDEPENDENT FOLKS.

WHEN THAT COMES BACK, WE WILL KNOW.

>> Mary: HOW DO YOU ACCOUNT FOR THE FRAUD THAT'S NOT ACCOUNTED OR?

>> SO SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS, WE DON'T KNOW.

>> Mary: THAT'S COMING UP ON "ALMANAC."

♪ >> "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY... GREAT RIVER ENERGY: PROVIDING WHOLESALE POWER TO 1.7 MILLION PEOPLE THROUGH ITS MEMBER-OWNER COOPERATIVES AND CUSTOMERS.

DELTA DENTAL OF MINNESOTA FOUNDATION: IMPROVING ORAL HEALTH AND HELPING COMMUNITIES THRIVE.

DELTADENTALMN.ORG/TPT.

AND EDUCATION MINNESOTA: THE VOICE FOR PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

MORE AT EDUCATIONMINNESOTA.ORG.

>> ERIC: WE HAVE A VERY FULL HOUR FOR YOU TONIGHT.

WE'LL SPEND SOME TIME TALKING ABOUT THE INCREASED I.C.E.

PRESENCE IN MINNESOTA AND IMMIGRATION RAIDS, THERE'S NEW HOUSING RULES COMING OUT OF WASHINGTON, D.C., IN 2026 THAT COULD INCREASE THE HOMELESS POPULATION IN MINNESOTA, AND WE'LL DIVE INTO THE BUDGET FORECAST TOO.

>> CATHY: WE START TONIGHT WITH AN ARREST IN THE DEVASTATING FIRE THAT DESTROYED THE HISTORIC LUTSEN LODGE ALONG LAKE SUPERIOR NEARLY TWO YEARS AGO.

RESORT OWNER BRYCE CAMPBELL HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH ARSON AND INSURANCE FRAUD.

THE RESORT BURNED TO THE GROUND IN THE EARLY MORNING HOURS OF FEBRUARY 6, 2024.

JOINING US WITH MORE, JOE FRIEDRICHS IS A COOK COUNTY RESIDENT, LONGTIME JOURNALIST IN THE REGION, AND HE HAS BEEN COVERING THE FIRE SINCE RIGHT AFTER IT WAS REPORTED.

I THINK YOU WERE ONE OF THE FIRST PEOPLE THERE.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

I WAS ON PR THAT MORNING.

>> Cathy: THANK YOU FOR DOING THAT.

APPRECIATE THAT.

YOU KNOW, INTERESTING NEWS CONFERENCE EARLIER THIS WEEK WITH STATE OFFICIALS, STATE FIRE MARSHAL EXAMINE THE BCA, IT APPEARS THAT Mr.

CAMPBELL LEFT QUITE A DIGITAL FOOTPRINT, IF YOU WERE TO BELIEVE THE OFFICIALS.

>> WELL, THE PHONE WOULD PUT HIM HERE.

THERE ARE MESSAGES THAT WERE REFERENCED IN THE CRIMINAL COMPLAINT THAT HE SAID THINGS LIKE, BURN IT, REPEATEDLY IN REFERENCE TO DEBT AND ISSUES WITH THE RESORT.

SO THOSE ARE SOME DIGITAL FOOTPRINTS, CERTAINLY.

>> Cathy: I DID NOT REALIZE, BY THE WAY, THE AMOUNT OF DEBT THAT HE HAD.

>> HE HAD SIGNIFICANT DEBT.

I MEAN, THEY'RE LUMPING IN WITH THAT NUMBER THE SUPERIOR SHORES DEBT.

THAT'S A SIGNIFICANT PART OF THAT NUMBER.

SO, THAT'S WORTH MENTIONING, FOR SURE.

>> Eric: YOU INTERVIEWED CAMPBELL.

>> I DID.

>> Eric: WHAT WAS HE LIKE?

>> HE'S AN INTERESTING FELLOW.

HE'S BIG, HE'S 6'4", MAYBE 250, HE DRINKS A LOT OF DIET COKE, KIND OF CONSTANTLY.

SIX A DAY, 20-OUNCE BOTTLES, TWO CARAMEL MACCHIATOS A DAY.

>> Eric: YIKES.

>> HE'S KIND OF BUZZING A LITTLE BIT.

I'M SURE HE'S HAVING A CAFFEINE H ONE DRAWL HEADACHE RIGHT OW IN JAIL WHERE HE IS CURRENTLY IN MICHIGAN.

HE'S SOFT SPOKEN DESPITE HIS LARGE PHYSICAL PRESENCE.

HE HAS A SENSE OF HUMOR, I WOULD SAY, ACTUALLY.

AND HIM AND I WERE NOT ON GOOD TERMS FOR YEARS WHEN I WAS A REPORTER, WHEN I WAS WORKING ON SOME ISSUES RELATED TO LUTSEN RESORT, THE EXCAVATOR AND THE POP DLAR RIVER, HE GOT A CEASE AND DESIST, I WROTE ABOUT THAT, TONIGHT SUE ME FOR THAT ARTICLE, HIS ATTORNEY SAID, YOU CAN'T SUE HIM JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE IT, THAT TYPE OF THING.

BUT WE WORKED IT THROUGH ENOUGH TO SIT DOWN FOR ABOUT SIX HOURS.

>> Eric: WOW.

>> Cathy: AND HE WAS STEADFAST IN HIS DENIAL, WHEN HE TALKED TO YOU?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN, I ASKED HIM POINT BLANK, AND I'VE LEARNED LATER FROM AN ARSON EXPERT WHO IS A MINNESOTAN NOW LIVING IN L.A., ONE OF THE FOREMOST IN THE COUNTRY, WHO SAID, YOU DON'T EVER ASK HIM THAT WAY, YOU DON'T SAY, DID YOU START THE FIRE, WHICH IS WHAT I ASKED HIM, BECAUSE YOU COULD HAVE HIRED SOMEONE, HE COULD HAVE HIRED SOMEONE ELSE, YOU ASK HIM, DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS FIRE?

RATHER THAN, DID YOU START THE FIRE?

WHICH, OF COURSE, HE SAID NO.

>> Eric: COULD YOU PUT SOME MEAT ON THE BONE HERE, THE BCA SUPERINTENDENT CALLED IT A CRIME OF SELFISHNESS.

>> WELL, THE CHARGES AKE REFERENCE TO THE FACT THAT IT DESTROYED THIS BELOVED RESORT.

YOU KNOW, SO THE SELFISHNESS COMPONENT IS, HE GETS HIMSELF INTO FINANCIAL TROUBLE, AND HE SEES HIS OFF RAMP AS STARTING THE FIRE, THAT'S ACCORDING TO THE EATIONZ ALLEGATIONS.

WE KNOW THAT LUTSEN IS SUCH A SACRED PLACE TO A LOT OF PEOPLE.

WEDDINGS, ANNIVERSARIES, ALL THESE MILESTONE EVENTS THAT PEOPLE HAVE IN THEIR LIVES AND GO TO LUTSEN.

THE SUMMER VACATION.

AND FOR THE LOCAL PEOPLE, IN COOK COUNTY.

THE BURGER WHERE WE'D GO ON A TUESDAY NIGHT IN THE WINTER WHEN THERE'S NOTHING ELSE REALLY HAPPENING, YOU COULD HANG OUT THERE, AND THAT WAS ALL CHANGED.

HE WANTED TO HAVE THIS HIGH-END RESORT, THIS VIBE OF HIGH CLIENTELE, $100 PLATES, YOU KNOW, CLOSE THE PUB, I WANT A FONDUE BAR.

AND THAT TYPE OF CHANGE THAT REALLY MADE LOCAL PEOPLE FEEL SHUNNED, NOT WELCOMED.

>> Eric: AND THEIR REACTION TO THIS, THE CITIZENRY UP THERE?

>> PEOPLE DIDN'T LIKE BRYCE'S APPROACH TO RUNNING THE RESORT FOR MANY YEARS.

THAT GOES BACK TO, YOU KNOW, PRE-COVID EVEN, MAYBE 2019, ALMOST IMMEDIATELY, BASICALLY.

AND, SO, THAT SORT OF, I DON'T FEEL WELCOMED, I'M NOT SO SURE ABOUT THIS BRYCE CAMPBELL LOCAL SENTIMENT ON THE SHORE HAS BEEN ACTIVE FOR A WHILE, WELL BEFORE THE FIRE.

>> Cathy: AND REACTION GENERALLY AMONG FOLKS UP THERE TO NEWS THAT HE'S NOW IN JAIL AND CHARGED?

>> I MEAN, I THINK ACROSS MINNESOTA, WHAT I'M HEARING AND SEEING TODAY IS, WE KNEW IT, EVERYBODY KNEW IT, HE'S GUILTY, END OF STORY.

LOCK HIM UP.

I'M TAKING ISSUE WITH THAT.

I THINK THAT WE NEED TO ALLOW THE PROCESS, IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A JURY AND A TRIAL, WHAT'S THE POINT OF HAVING THAT MENTALITY?

IF WE CAN'T HEAR WHAT BRYCE AND HIS DEFENSE TEAM HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THE ALLEGATIONS THAT HAVE NOW BEEN PRESENTED, THEN WHAT'S THE POINT OF THAT?

>> Cathy: NOW, HE'LL BE EXTRADITED BACK TO COOK COUNTY.

>> THAT'S THE PLAN.

AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THAT PROCESS SHOULD BE PRETTY QUICK AND SMOOTH.

AND THEN THERE WILL BE A BAIL SET OR A BOND.

SO WHAT THAT AMOUNT WOULD BE IS, I KNOW THEY WANT IT TO BE HIGH, COUNTY ATTORNEY AND OTHER PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THIS, BECAUSE IF BRYCE MEETS BAIL, GETS OUT, HE'S A CANADIAN CITIZEN, WE NEED TO KEEP THAT IN MIND, HE HAS A PASSPORT, IF HE RETURNS TO CANADA, HE'S IN CANADA AND NOW WE'VE GOT A WHOLE -- >> Eric: FLIGHT RISK.

>> YEAH, AND HE'S IN CANADA.

>> Cathy: OW YOU HAVE WORKED ON A PODCAST DILIGENTLY FOR QUITE SOME TIME.

DID IT ALL -- ALL EPISODES DROP?

>> THEY'RE ALL OUT NOW.

IT'S CALLED "THE FIRE, A NORTH SHORE STORY."

YOU CAN GET IT ON ANY PLACE WHERE YOU LISTEN TO PODCASTS.

AND WE HAD, JULIE AND I, WHO MADE THE PODCAST TOGETHER, FOUR EPISODES THAT WERE IN QUEUE, WE COULD HAVE HIT GO LIVE AT ANY TIME.

AND WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON THOSE FOR WELL OVER A YEAR.

AND THE FIFTH EPISODE WE MADE LAST NIGHT, AND NOW THEY'RE ALL FIVE OUT AND AVAILABLE.

>> Eric: GOOD LUCK WITH IT.

CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR WORK ON THIS.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Cathy: THANK YOU.

APPRECIATE IT, JOE.

WE'RE GOING TO SWITCH OUT SOME GUESTS RIGHT NOW, HEAD ACROSS THE OTHER STUDIO TO THE OTHER SET, AND WE'LL BE BACK IN A FEW MINUTES.

♪ >> Eric: U.S.

DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT IS PLANNING TO MOVE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN FUNDING FROM HOUSING TO OTHER SHORT-TERM PROGRAMS TO ADDRESS HOMELESSNESS.

ADVOCATES AND HOUSING PROVIDERS ARE CONCERNED THAT THE STRATEGY SHIFT WILL ONLY FURTHER ADD TO THE PROBLEM.

AND WE'VE INVITED OUR NEXT PANEL TO LEARN SOME MORE.

JAMIE HEADS THE CATHOLIC CHARITIES TWIN CITIES.

IT'S A PROVIDER SERVING ACROSS THE METRO.

NANCY CASHMAN IS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AT THE CENTER CITY HOUSING, WHICH OPERATES IN GREATER MINNESOTA AND THE METRO.

AND JOINING THEM IS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR FROM THE STATE COUNCIL ON HOMELESSNESS, KATHY TEN BROEKE.

THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING US.

JAMIE, HOW MANY PEOPLE MIGHT GET AFFECTED BY THIS?

>> WELL, NATIONWIDE IT'S 170,000 IS THE NUMBER THAT THEY PEGGED.

>> Eric: WHAT ARE YOU THINKING IN THE STATE HERE?

>> WELL, FOR OUR OPERATION, WE HAVE A THOUSAND UNITS OF PERMANENT SUPPORTIVE HOUSING.

AND EVEN THOUGH THE FUNDING IS NOT SPECIFIC TO ALL OF THOSE UNITS, THE WAY THAT THE FINANCING WORKS TO BRING IN SOURCES SO THAT WE CAN DO THIS, IT PUTS EVERYTHING IN JEOPARDY.

RIGHT?

BECAUSE YOU PULL OUT A KEY PIECE OF THE REVENUE AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS THREATENED BY IT.

>> Cathy: I THINK WE SHOULD PROBABLY DEFINE WHAT IS SUPPORTIVE HOUSING?

>> SURE.

>> SURE, I CAN SAY, AND I JUST WANT TO ADD TO THAT ANSWER THAT STATEWIDE, SO BEYOND JUST ONE ORGANIZATION, STATEWIDE WE THINK IN THE SHORT TERM THESE CUTS COULD IMPACT ABOUT 4900 MINNESOTANS.

AND OVER THE LONG TERM EVEN MORE TO THE POINT THAT JAMIE MADE ABOUT IT DESTABLIZING ENTIRE PROJECTS AND ENTIRE ORGANIZATIONS.

PERMANENT SUPPORTIVE HOUSING IS ESSENTIALLY HOUSING THAT'S AFFORDABLE.

THAT HAS BEEN LINKED TO THE KINDS OF SERVICES AND SUPPORTS PEOPLE NEED TO BE SUCCESSFUL AND STABLE IN THAT HOUSING.

>> Cathy: SO IT COULD BE TREATMENT FOR ADDICTION, IT COULD BE OTHER SUPPORTS THAT SOMEBODY WOULD NEED THAT THEY NEED HELP WITH?

>> RIGHT.

BASICALLY THE IDEA IS YOU GET SOMEBODY CONNECTED TO THE STABILITY OF HOUSING, AND THEN THE ABILITY TO TAKE CARE OF ALL THE OTHER THINGS THAT MAKE THEIR LIFE, YOU KNOW, MORE STABLE IN THAT HOUSING ARE SO MUCH EASIER.

>> Cathy: I SEE.

AND, NANCY, YOU WOULD AGREE, YOU NEED TO GET THE HOUSING PIECE DONE FIRST?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK A SIMPLE WAY TO PUT IT, IS THAT LIVING ON THE STREETS IS NEVER A GOOD TREATMENT PROGRAM.

PEOPLE DON'T GET BETTER THERE.

AND, SO, PEOPLE NEED A SAFE PLACE TO BE WHEN THEY'RE IN -- WHEN THEY'RE IN HOUSING, THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE CHANGE IS AVAILABLE.

BUT BEFORE THAT, TREATMENT IS NOT GOOD IF YOU'RE LIVING ON THE STREETS.

IT DOESN'T HAPPEN.

AND THE OTHER PART I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT TO THINK ABOUT IS THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN CATHY SAID 4,900 PEOPLE, I THINK PEOPLE GET PICTURE OF 50-SOME-YEAR-OLD MEN ON A PARK BENCH.

YOU KNOW, I WOULD SAY 40% OF THOSE ARE CHILDREN.

AND, SO, IT'S NOT -- SO IT'S MORE -- IT'S FAMILIES, IT'S CHILDREN, IT'S UNACCOMPANIED YOUTH, LIKE THE RISK IS HIGH IN THE STATE.

>> Eric: WHAT'S WRONG WITH HAVING BOTH APPROACHES, THOUGH?

CAN'T IT BE DONE -- DOES IT HAVE TO BE ONE SIZE FITS ALL?

>> YOU KNOW WHAT I WOULD SAY, NOT TO AGE US, NANCY, BUT NANCY AND I WORKED IN DIRECT SERVICE THREE DECADES AGO ON THIS ISSUE, AND THE PHILOSOPHY AT THAT TIME WAS THAT WE -- EVERYONE NEEDED TO BE READY FOR HOUSING.

SO THEY NEEDED TO SAVE UP A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY, THEY NEEDED TO BE ENTIRELY SOBER, THEY NEEDED TO TAKE ALL THESE MEDICATIONS, AND, SO, FOR PEOPLE THAT HAD COMPLEX HEALTH NEEDS, THEY WOULD THEN JUST LANGUISH ON THE TREETS OR IN OUR SHELTERS FOR YEARS AND YEARS.

WHEN WE CHANGE THAT PHILOSOPHY AND SAID, LET'S JUST START WITH HOUSING AND MAKE SURE PEOPLE ARE STABLE, AND THEN SURROUND THEM WITH ALL THE SERVICES AND SUPPORTS, THAT CHANGED EVERYTHING.

AND WE SAW THE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE WHO WERE HOMELESS THE LONGEST GOING DOWN DRAMATICALLY.

>> Eric: ARE WORK REQUIREMENTS PRODUCTIVE?

>> WELL, I THINK YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER THE FOLKS THAT WE'RE SERVING.

AND WHAT THEIR CAPACITY IS TO MEET THOSE TYPES OF REQUIREMENTS, RIGHT.

FOR US, WE KNOW THAT ABOUT 80% OF OUR RESIDENTS HAVE A LEVEL OF DISABILITY, WHETHER IT IS MENTAL OR BEHAVIORAL HEALTH, PHYSICAL IMPAIRMENT, OR SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER, RIGHT, AND I THINK TO CATHY'S POINT, THE BEST THING THAT YOU CAN DO TO MOVE SOMEBODY OUT OF HOMELESSNESS IS TO GET THEM STABLY HOUSED.

AND THEN ONCE YOU DO THAT, THEN YOU CAN BRING THE RESOURCES TO HELP ADDRESS THE ISSUES THAT CONTRIBUTED TO BEING HOMELESS IN THE FIRST PLACE, RIGHT.

SO I UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION, BUT I THINK YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS SOMEBODY'S ABILITY TO ACCEPT THOSE SERVICES WHEN THEIR PRIMARY CONCERN IS WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO SLEEP TONIGHT.

>> Cathy: I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT SOME PEOPLE -- A LOT OF PEOPLE WATCHING WOULD SAY, IS THIS WORKING, THOUGH?

BECAUSE WHEN YOU GO INTO DOWNTOWN -- WE'RE HERE IN DOWNTOWN St.

PAUL, THERE'S CLEARLY AN ISSUE WITH FOLKS WHO ARE UNHOUSED, AND IN GREATER MINNESOTA, FOR GOODNESS SAKES, I MEAN, DULUTH COMES TO MIND.

SO IS WHAT WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW WORKING?

>> I THINK IT IS.

IT ABSOLUTELY IS.

>> IT ABSOLUTELY IS.

>> YEAH.

>> WE ALL AGREE ON THAT.

>> YEAH.

>> AND THIS NOTION THAT HUD SAYS PERMANENT SUPPORTIVE HOUSING ISN'T WORKING BECAUSE HOMELESSNESS IS INCREASING IS JUST A FALSE NARRATIVE BECAUSE WE'RE HOUSING THE PEOPLE WHO ARE COMING OUT OF HOMELESSNESS.

THE FACT IS, HOMELESSNESS IS INCREASING FOR ANY NUMBER OF ISSUES, BUT IT ISN'T BECAUSE OF THE SUPPORTS THAT PEOPLE ARE RECEIVING.

>> Eric: I'VE EVEN HEARD SOME TALK OF RE-OPENING THE INSTITUTIONS.

>> I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY'D DO THAT.

YOU KNOW?

AND THE MODEL THAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT IS EVERYTHING'S TEMPORARY, TRANSITIONAL HOUSING IS UP FOR TWO YEARS, AT HE END OF TWO YEAR, THEN WHAT?

AND WE ALL KNOW THE HOUSING CRISIS IN MINNESOTA, ALL THE COMMUNITIES, WHERE ARE PEOPLE GOING TO GO?

EMERGENCY SHELTER USED TO BE 30 DAYS.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT'S BEEN EXTENDED.

BUT IT IS TIME LIMITED AND THEN -- SO THAT'S WHAT PUSHED US TO THE PERMANENT SUPPORTIVE HOUSING BECAUSE IT IMMEDIATELY ENDS HOMELESSNESS FOR THAT HOUSEHOLD.

>> ERIC, I THINK ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND WATCHING THIS IS THAT HOMELESSNESS IS SOLVABLE, HOUSING ENDS HOMELESSNESS.

TO TAKE AWAY THE VERY TOOL THAT HAS EVIDENCE AT ENDING HOMELESSNESS AND REPLACE IT WITH TEMPORARY KINDS OF INTERVENTIONS THAT DON'T HAVE EVIDENCE TO END HOMELESSNESS DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.

THE REASON WE SEE MORE PEOPLE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS IN THIS COUNTRY IS BECAUSE WE HAVE AN AFFORDABILITY SSUE.

PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD A PLACE TO LIVE, THEY'RE SPENDING 60, 70, 80% OF THEIR NCOME ON HOUSING, AND THAT MAKES THEM VERY VULNERABLE TO HOMELESSNESS.

THESE FOLKS ARE ENDING HOMELESSNESS FOR PEOPLE EVERY DAY, BUT EN MORE PEOPLE ARE FALLING INTO HOMELESSNESS BECAUSE OF AFFORDABILITY ISSUES.

>> Cathy: I HAVE A HARD QUESTION THEN.

NEU WONDER, WHAT ARE THE POLITICS OF THIS?

WHAT'S PURRING THIS IDEA FORWARD THEN?

ARE THERE ANY THEORIES ABOUT THAT?

THAT YOU WISH TO SHARE.

>> IN MY MIND, IT FEELS LIKE WHAT HUD IS DOING IS CREATING A POLICY FOR HOW THEY WISH THINGS WERE AS OPPOSED TO INVESTING IN EVIDENCE-BASED, OUTCOME-FOCUSED WORK THAT HAS PROVEN TO BE EFFECTIVE.

AND, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT GOING TO GET INTO THE POLITICS OF WHAT'S BEHIND IT.

I JUST KNOW THAT WHAT WE ARE DOING IS WORKING.

>> ONE THING I DO WANT TO SAY, THOUGH, IS THAT HOMELESSNESS IS A NONPARTISAN ISSUE.

I MEAN, WE HAVE HAD BIPARTISAN SUPPORT TO END VETERAN HOMELESSNESS IN THIS COUNTRY AND IT WORKED.

AND THEY INVESTED IN HOUSING AND SERVICES.

THE VERY THING THAT THIS IS PROPOSING TO CUT.

AND, SO, CONGRESS STILL HAS THE ABILITY RIGHT NOW TO STOP THIS FROM HAPPENING, AND I THINK THAT'S THE OTHER IMPORTANT THING FOR PEOPLE TO -- >> Eric: WELL, GOING BACK TO THE PAWLENTY ADMINISTRATION, THERE WAS THIS BIG EFFORT, WE'RE GOING TO END HOMELESSNESS.

>> PLANS.

>> Eric: 2008 I GUESS CAME ALONG.

BUT IT'S BEEN A LONG-TERM GOAL.

I DON'T KNOW HOW CLOSE YOU ARE TO IT.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, IT GETS BACK TO WHAT MIKE WAS SAYING, IS THAT HOW OES HOMELESSNESS HAPPEN?

IT'S WAY UPSTREAM, WAY UPSTREAM WHERE WE NEED TO BE DOING STUFF FOR FOLKS.

I MEAN, MOST OF THE PEOPLE THAT WE'RE HOUSING WERE HOMELESS WITH THEIR FAMILIES WHEN THEY WERE KIDS.

IT'S NOT THEIR FIRST TIME OUT, NOT THEIR FIRST EPISODE.

YOU KNOW, OST OF THE KIDS THAT COME INTO OUR AMILY PROGRAMS, THEY'VE BEEN HOMELESS, THREE, FOUR, FIVE TIMES.

THE SYSTEMS AREN'T WORKING.

THE AFFORDABILITY IS AN ISSUE ON HOUSING, ON FOOD, ON TRANSPORTATION, ON JOBS.

BY THE TIME THEY GET TO US, WE'RE THE SCOOPIN' 'EM P FOLKS.

WE'RE TRYING TO GET THEM OUT OF THE MOST DESPERATE SITUATION YOU CAN BE IN.

AND MOVE THEM ON TO SOMETHING BETTER.

>> Cathy: SO, JAMIE, IF THIS HAPPENS, WHAT HAPPENS TO THE FOLKS THAT -- THE INITIAL NUMBERS THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT HERE WHEN WE STARTED OUR CONVERSATION?

>> THAT'S A REALLY GREAT QUESTION.

>> THE 4800, 5,000 OR SO PEOPLE IN MINNESOTA.

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

THERE ISN'T AN OPTION.

FOR A COUPLE REASONS.

MOST OF THE ESIDENTS THAT WE SERVE HAVE VERY LOW INCOME.

AND, SO, THEY DON'T HAVE AN OPTION OF AFFORDING MARKET RATE OR EVEN LOWER THAN MARKET RATE, VERY AFFORDABLE, BECAUSE WHAT THEY CAN AFFORD IS THE KIND OF HOUSING THAT WE'RE PROVIDING.

AND THEN YOU'RE NOT ADDRESSING THE ISSUES THAT THEY'RE DEALING WITH THAT MAKE IT EVEN MORE DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO STAY STABLE.

AND I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE THINK ABOUT WHO IT IS THAT WE'RE SERVING, RIGHT, AND THERE MAY BE A PERCEPTION OF WHO THE HOMELESS POPULATION ARE.

THE FASTEST-GROWING GROUP OF PEOPLE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS ARE OLDER PEOPLE.

RIGHT?

AND, SO -- YEAH -- SO THE ECONOMIC PRESSURES RIGHT NOW ARE PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL.

I WAS JUST TALKING TO ONE OF THE FOLKS WE SERVE, WHO IS ABOUT 70 EARS OLD, HAS NEVER EXPERIENCED HOMELESSNESS -- >> Cathy: AND THEY ARE NOW.

>> THEY ARE NOW.

>> Cathy: THERE'S SO MUCH TO TALK ABOUT.

WE SO APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

WE WISH WE HAD MORE TIME WITH YOU ALL.

>> Eric: THANKS FOR COMING OVER.

>> THANK YOU.

♪ >> ERIC: WE'RE GOING TO TURN OUR ATTENTION NOW TO THE OTHER BIG STORY IN OUR REGION THIS WEEK.

INCREASED IMMIGRATION RAIDS, THE HEIGHTENED PRESENCE OF I.C.E.

AGENTS IN THE TWIN CITIES, AND THE DELIBERATE TARGETING OF THE SOMALI COMMUNITY BY PRESIDENT TRUMP.

KATELYN VUE IS AN IMMIGRATION REPORTER FOR THE SAHAN JOURNAL AND HAS BEEN TRACKING "OPERATION METRO SURGE," AS WELL AS OTHER RAIDS AND ARRESTS IN THE METRO AREA THIS FALL.

WHAT'S THE BIG PICTURE?

WHERE DO WE STAND HERE?

THERE'S BEEN RECENT DETAINMENTS, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE ARE ARRESTS, BUT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DETAINED.

>> YEAH, SO THERE WAS A DHS -- SO DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY -- RELEASED A PRESS RELEASE YESTERDAY, THEY NAMED 12 PEOPLE THAT WERE ARRESTED IN OPERATION METRO SURGE.

THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE CALLING THE ARRESTS THAT ARE HAPPENING IN MINNESOTA RIGHT NOW, TARGETING THE SOMALI COMMUNITY.

OUT OF THE 12, WE ONLY SAW, I THINK, AROUND FIVE SOMALIS AND MOST OF THEM WERE -- AND THE OTHER SIX WERE MEXICAN NATIONALS AND HE NATIONALS AND H EL SALVADORANS, SO WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF OTHER IMMIGRANT OPULATIONS BEING SWEPT UP IN THE ARRESTS THAT HAPPENED WITH THIS LARGE OPERATION.

>> Eric: DO WE KNOW WHERE THEY ARE?

ARE THEY AT THE SHERBURNE COUNTY JAIL, WHERE ARE THEY?

>> I THINK SOME OF THEM ARE AT SHERBURNE COUNTY.

SO THERE'S MORE THAN 12.

SO E'RE SEEING 12 IN THE PRESS RELEASE.

BUT IMMIGRANT ADVOCACY GROUPS ARE TRACKING, BECAUSE WE'RE SEEING SO MANY MORE HAPPEN ON SOCIAL MEDIA, SO THEY'RE GOING OUT TO VERIFY WHAT'S HAPPENING AT THESE SCENES WHERE PEOPLE ARE REPORTING I.C.E.

ARRESTS.

AND, SO, WE KNOW THAT THERE'S MORE THAN 12, AND I DON'T KNOW WHERE ALL EXACTLY OR HOW MANY IN TOTAL, BUT -- BECAUSE IT'S DIFFICULT TO KIND OF KEEP TRACK, I.C.E.

IS MOVING REALLY QUICKLY WHEN THEY'RE MAKING THESE ARRESTS.

BUT WE KNOW SOME ARE IN SHERBURNE.

SOME HAVE BEEN JUST QUICKLY TRANSFERRED TO OTHER STATES.

>> Cathy: YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SEEING, HAVE YOU SEEN, ANY LARGE-SCALE PROTEST, THOUGH?

LIKE WE SAW IN St.

PAUL, RIGHT, WITH THAT I.C.E.

RAID, THAT GOT -- THAT POLICE USED CHEMICAL IRRITANTS AND -- >> YEAH.

>> Cathy: -- SPONGE BULLETS, I'M WONDERING, BECAUSE I.C.E.

IS MOVING SO FAST, ACTIVISTS AND PROTESTERS CAN'T GET TO SCENES?

WHAT'S HAPPENING?

>> I WILL SAY, I WILL SAY, YEAH, THE OPERATION IS UNIQUE IN THAT WAY.

I'D SAY I.C.E.

IS MAKING THESE ARRESTS SORT OF -- THEY SEEM TO BE HAPPENING RANDOMLY.

YOU KNOW, VEHICLES JUST PATROLLING STREETS, LIKE EAST LAKE STREET, CEDAR RIVERSIDE, AND WHEN THEY'RE SEEING FOLKS THAT THEY THINK ARE SOMALI, LIKE IT SEEMS LIKE THEY'RE JUST RANDOMLY MAKING THESE ARRESTS AND ASKING QUESTIONS LATER.

>> Cathy: RACIAL PROFILING.

>> YEAH, WE'RE SEEING THAT HAPPEN A LOT.

SO, YEAH, I WOULD SAY BY THE TIME ME OR ANY ACTIVIST SHOWS UP, THE ARRESTS ARE ALREADY MADE.

>> Eric: WE HAVE REALLY COLD WEATHER COMING.

MAYBE IT'S A DUMB QUESTION.

DOES IT MAKE IT LESS LIKELY THAT FOLKS WILL BE DETAINED?

>> IT'S DEFINITELY BEEN -- HONESTLY, LIKE THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF ARRESTS HAPPENING WITH THE COLD WEATHER ALREADY.

I SEE ARRESTS HAPPENING TO SOMALIS BUT ALSO OTHER IMMIGRANTS, LATINO IMMIGRANTS.

I DON'T KNOW IF THE NUMBER WILL CONTINUE TO INCREASE.

IT'S UNCLEAR, I.C.E.

HASN'T BEEN VERY CLEAR ABOUT HOW LONG THE OPERATION WILL BE.

>> Cathy: OF COURSE YOU MENTIONED LAKE STREET.

>> YUP.

>> Cathy: A LOT OF ETHNIC RESTAURANTS AND BUSINESSES ALONG LAKE STREET IN MINNEAPOLIS.

AND I'M WONDERING, WAS IT -- WHAT DOES IT FEEL LIKE OUT THERE WHEN YOU'VE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAYBE GET OUT IN THE FIELD AND TALK TO PEOPLE?

IS IT THAT LEVEL THAT WE'RE HEARING ABOUT FEAR AND UNCERTAINTY?

CAN YOU FEEL THAT, IN A SENSE?

>> YEAH, YOU CAN DEFINITELY FEEL THAT.

YOU KNOW, CEDAR RIVERSIDE, YOU CAN TELL, LIKE WHEN YOU'RE THERE, IT'S NOT AS LIVELY AS IT USED TO BE.

AND YOU CAN SEE, EVEN THOUGH MAYBE YOU DON'T GO TO THAT AREA VERY OFTEN, YOU CAN SEE THERE'S NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE, EVEN THOUGH IT'S A DENSE AREA.

SO, YEAH, THERE'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING YOU CAN FEEL ONCE YOU'RE THERE.

>> Eric: SO NEXT STEPS ARE UNKNOWN, I GUESS?

>> YEAH, THEY'RE PRETTY UNKNOWN.

WE'RE NOT SURE HOW LONG THIS OPERATION WILL BE OR THE MAXIMUM TARGET, FOLKS THEY WANT TO ARREST.

I MEAN, MOST SOMALIS IN MINNESOTA ARE U.S.

CITIZENS.

SO IT'S A LITTLE CONFUSING, SENDING IN SO MANY PEOPLE TO FOCUS ON THIS POPULATION, EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT GOING TO TURN OUT TO BE LOTS AND LOTS OF ARRESTS.

>> Eric: ALL RIGHT.

>> Cathy: I KNOW YOU'RE DOING A LOT OF GOOD WORK.

THANK YOU.

WE APPRECIATE IT.

>> Eric: THANKS.

TREMENDOUS.

WE'RE GOING TO GO SWITCH SOME GUESTS OUT HERE AND ONTINUE OUR CONVERSATION ABOUT OPERATION METRO SURGE AND THE IMPACT ON MINNESOTA'S SOMALI COMMUNITY.

BE RIGHT BACK.

>> CATHY: AS NOTED IN OUR LAST CONVERSATION, PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS SPECIFICALLY TARGETED THE SOMALI COMMUNITY IN MINNESOTA, REFERRING TO ALL PEOPLE OF SOMALI DESCENT AS GARBAGE AND SAYING THAT THEY AREN'T WANTED HERE, REGARDLESS OF THEIR LEGAL STATUS AS CITIZENS.

JAYLANI HUSSEIN HEADS UP THE MINNESOTA CHAPTER OF THE COUNCIL ON AMERICAN-ISLAMIC RELATIONS, KNOWN AS CAIR-MINNESOTA.

IT'S GOOD TO HAVE YOU BEING BA.

I KNOW IT'S BEEN BUSY.

I ASKED KAITLIN ABOUT THIS, CAN YOU GIVE US A SENSE OF THE FEAR AND UNCERTAINTY IN THE SOMALI COMMUNITY?

>> THERE'S A LOT OF FEAR, YOU KNOW, TO BE ON HE NATIONAL SPOTLIGHT EVERY SINGLE DAY, AND THE PRESIDENT HAS NOT RETREATED, CONTINUED TO KEEP HIS REMARKS AGAINST THIS COMMUNITY AND THE LAST ONE CALLING US GARBAGE, IT'S BEEN DIFFICULT.

BUT, AT THE SAME TIME, I THINK IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO TELL OUR STORY.

AND MANY PEOPLE ARE DOING, YOU KNOW, SOCIAL MEDIA, THEY'RE ONLINE, AND OTHER PLACES.

AND I THINK IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT THE SUCCESS.

I THINK PARTIALLY THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE'RE BEING TARGETED.

SOMALI AMERICAN EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN GREAT.

WE ARE VERY FORTUNATE TO BE IN THIS GREAT STATE OF MINNESOTA.

WE BENEFIT FROM THE FACT THAT WE CAME AFTER THE HMONG POPULATION, WHO PAVED A LOT MORE WAY.

AND MINNEAPOLIS AND TWIN CITIES, MINNESOTA, HAS BECOME A LOT MORE DIVERSE.

AND NOW WE'RE TELLING THE STORY, MINNESOTA SOMALIS ARE REALLY SUCCESSFULLY, ACTUALLY.

>> Cathy: THEN HOW, THEN, JAYLANI, DO YOU TELL THE STORY OR EXPLAIN THE LEVEL OF FRAUD THAT WE'VE SEEN IN MINNESOTA?

AND THEN OF THE DEFENDANTS ARE SOMALI AMERICAN.

>> I THINK THIS IS THE OLDEST STORY, WHEN BLACK PEOPLE OR PEOPLE OF COLOR, THEIR STORY IS TOLD THROUGH THE LENS OF CRIMINAL ACTIVITY.

CRIME IS SUBJECTIVE TO THE INDIVIDUAL.

AND FIRST AND FOREMOST, FRAUD IS WRONG.

IT IMPACTS ALL OF US AS TAXPAYERS, AS PEOPLE WHO BENEFIT FROM TAKING CARE OF THOSE WHO ARE LESS FORTUNATE.

BUT TO DEFINE A COMMUNITY BY THE ACTS OF INDIVIDUALS IS THE DEFINITION OF RACISM.

AND, UNFORTUNATELY, THAT STORY HAS NOT BEEN TOLD.

REPUBLICANS IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA UNDERSTAND THE POLITICAL POWER OF SOMALIS AND NONE OF THEM, OR THE LAST THREE YEARS, EVER SAID THAT, RIGHTFULLY SO.

BUT WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP STOOD AND SAID THAT, THEY REFUSED TO CREATE A MORAL LINE AND I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO SUFFER.

>> Eric: ARE YOU ABLE TO ADVISE THE COMMUNITY ON HOW TO HANDLE A DETAINMENT AND MAYBE GET LAWYERS READY, IMMIGRATION LAWYERS READY TO GO?

HOW ABOUT THAT STUFF?

>> WE HAVE BEEN DOING THAT.

I'M REALLY THANKFUL TO OUR NATIONAL CAIR NETWORK, WE HAVE IMMIGRATION ATTORNEYS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

MANY OF THEM ARE AVAILABLE FOR US RIGHT NOW.

SO WE ARE READY TO HANDLE THAT.

MINNESOTA'S VERY FORTUNATE TO HAVE ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THE IMMIGRANT LAW CENTER, ADVOCATES FOR HUMAN RIGHTS, WE HAVE GOOD RESOURCES HERE.

WE DEFINITELY NEED MORE.

I KNOW A LOT MORE PEOPLE ARE AFRAID, BUT RIGHT NOW I KNOW FOR SURE IN THIS MOMENT WE ARE PROVIDING AS MUCH INFORMATION AS POSSIBLE TO THOSE WHO NEED IT.

AND ALSO FOR PEOPLE AT HOME WHO ARE LIKE, HOW DO I SUPPORT MY SOMALI NEIGHBOR, HOW DO I HELP?

THIS IS A MOMENT FOR YOU TO ALSO KNOW WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH I.C.E., WHAT CAN YOU NOT DO, HOW DO YOU PROTECT YOUR APARTMENT, YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, HOW YOU CAN BE SUPPORTIVE.

BECAUSE ONE THING, IT'S CLEAR ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR PROGRAM OR THIS TARGETING, IT'S TARGETING CITIZENS.

87% OF SOMALIS ARE EPP' EITHER PERMANENT RESIDENTS OR GREEN CARD HOLDERS -- I'M SORRY -- U.S.

CITIZENS.

IN FACT, I THINK THE LAST NUMBER WE LOOKED AT 60% ARE BORN HERE.

SO THE MAJORITY OF THE YOUTH, IN FACT, RIGHT NOW ON SOCIAL MEDIA, THE YOUTH ARE CLAPPING BACK, LIKE THERE'S NO TOMORROW, THEY'VE FIGURED OUT A WAY TO RESPOND.

THEIR WAY OF TALKING SOCIAL MEDIA.

BUT IT'S IMPORTANT, I THINK, IN THIS MOMENT AS A COMMUNITY, WE REALIZE, THESE ATTACKS ARE NOT GOING AWAY.

I AM SPEAKING TONIGHT TO THE MINNESOTANS HO ARE SITTING AT HOME, YOU LOVE OUR SAMBUSAS, WE'RE YOUR NEIGHBORS, YOUR BUS DRIVERS, YOUR TEACHERS, YOUR COLLEAGUES AT WORK, REACH OUT TO THOSE PEOPLE, AND SPEAK PROUDLY AS A MINNESOTAN TO SAY, SOMALI AMERICANS ARE MY NEIGHBORS, THEY'RE NOT GARBAGE, IN FACT, THEY MAKE THIS STATE EAUTIFUL.

>> Cathy: HAVE YOU ALSO SEEN FOLKS COMING OUT BEING ALMOST LIKE OBSERVERS, IN A SENSE, TOO?

>> OH, ABSOLUTELY.

YOU CAN DO A LOT.

YOU CAN OBSERVE, LEARN WHAT'S HAPPENING.

WE'VE ALREADY HEARD SOMEBODY GOT HURT BY I.C.E.

HOPEFULLY WE'LL LEARN MORE OF THE DETAILS.

CITIZEN, SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY HAS A PERMANENT, I BELIEVE, A GREEN CARD.

WE'LL SORT OUT THE DETAILS OF THE STORY.

THERE'S A LOT COMING IN.

BUT PEOPLE CAN OBSERVE, PEOPLE CAN PLAY A ROLE, BECAUSE I THINK PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND, THIS IS NOT REALLY A TARGETED OF THE CLASSIC UNDOCUMENTED, WHAT'S HAPPENING IN NEW ORLEANS AND OTHER PARTS.

THEY'RE GOING AND TARGETING SOMALI AMERICANS WHO ARE CITIZENS OF THIS OUNTRY.

>> Eric: HOW MANY SOMALIS ARE IN MINNESOTA?

>> GREAT QUESTION.

CAIR'S NUMBERS ARE ABOUT 150, RANGES BETWEEN 91,000, WHICH WAS THE ORIGINAL NUMBER IN THE CENSUS, WE THINK IT'S A LOT MORE THAN THAT.

BUT I THINK WE'RE ABOUT 150,000.

>> Eric: APPRECIATE YOU COMING OVER.

WE KNOW YOU'VE BEEN BUSY.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Eric: THANK YOU.

>> DOMINIC: I KNOW LOTS OF YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT CHRISTMAS OR CHANUKAH OR FESTIVUS OR WHATEVER OTHER WINTER HOLIDAY YOU CHOOSE TO OBSERVE.

GOOD FOR YOU.

BUT ME, I’M ALREADY LOOKING AHEAD TO JANUARY, THE TIME OF YEAR TRADITIONALLY RESERVED FOR NEW YEAR’S RESOLUTIONS.

I THINK WE ALL KNOW THE WORLD IS KIND OF A DUMPSTER FIRE RIGHT NOW.

SO I THINK WE REALLY NEED TO GET A HEAD START ON THOSE RESOLUTIONS.

LET’S CALL THEM “PRESOLUTIONS.” HERE’S A FEW.

FOR GOVERNOR TIM WALZ: PRESOLVE BETTER TALKING POINTS.

OTHER MAJOR MEDIA OUTLETS WILL ASK YOU ABOUT FRAUD THAT’S COST THE STATE’S TAXPAYERS HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

NEXT TIME, MAYBE DON’T LEAD WITH THE QUOTE THAT MINNESOTA IS A “GENEROUS, PROSPEROUS AND WELL-RUN” STATE.

THAT’S NOT THE FLEX YOU THINK IT IS.

FOR THE STATE GOP PARTY: PRESOLVE TO AVOID USING THE WORD “GARBAGE” WHEN DESCRIBING ANY PARTICULAR SEGMENT OF THE STATE’S POPULATION.

AND CONSIDER HAVING SOME TINY BIT OF SPINE WHEN ASKED ABOUT PEOPLE WHO CHOOSE TO DESCRIBE THAT SAME POPULATION WITH THOSE WORDS.

FOR KEVIN O’CONNELL, MINNESOTA VIKINGS HEAD COACH AND NOTED “QUARTERBACK WHISPERER”: PRESOLVE TO STOP WHISPERING.

GET US A QUARTERBACK.

FOR BLUE CROSS AND BLUE SHIELD OF MINNESOTA: PRESOLVE TO NOT MAKE SENIORS ANGRY BY TAKING AWAY THEIR GYM BENEFITS.

THEY MAY NOT BE THE MOST TECHNOLOGICALLY ADVANCED FOLKS, BUT THEY’VE GOT NOTHING BUT FREE TIME TO PROTEST.

AND THEY’RE IN SHAPE.

NEXT TIME, PICK ON SOME FLABBY GROUP THAT’S NOT PAYING ATTENTION.

FINALLY, FOR "ALMANAC": PRESOLVE TO START 2026 BY GETTING RID OF SOME OF THOSE DEADWOOD ESSAYISTS WHO HAVE BEEN HOGGING UP THE MONOLOGUE SLOTS FOR A QUARTER CENTURY OR MORE.

WAIT, I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT ME.

I MEANT DePAOLIS, HE'S SHORT.

>> WE KNEW HER WAY BACK WHEN BEFORE SHE WAS A KIDDIE LIT STAR, BUT KATE DiCAMILLO IS NICE ENOUGH TO REMEMBER OUR LITTLE PEOPLE EXAMINE WE ENJOY HER YEARLY CHATS ABOUT HER LATEST WRITING PROJECTS.

THIS YEAR SHE HAS A NEW CHILDREN'S BOOK.

IT WAS WRITTEN WITH ANOTHER AUTHOR, FELLOW TWIN CITIAN, ALISON McGEE.

I READ THIS.

>> OF COURSE, YOU DID.

THERE'S LIKE TEN WORDS IN IT.

>> Eric: YOU ALWAYS SAY, YOU WRITE TWO PAGES A DAY.

>> THIS IS WHAT I WAS SAYING, I KNEW THIS IS WHERE WE WERE GOING TO GO WITH THIS TONIGHT.

>> Cathy: USUALLY WHEN A NEW COOKBOOK COMES OUT, IT'S WRITTEN BY A HEAD CHEF SHOWCASING THEIR CLAIM TO FAME.

BUT 'BACK OF HOUSE,' A NEW BOOK OUT LAST MONTH, INSTEAD LOOKS AT RECIPES FROM THE PEOPLE WHO SO OFTEN WORK, AS THE TITLE SAYS, AT THE BACK OF THE KITCHEN WITHOUT THE PRAISE AND LIMELIGHT--IMMIGRANTS AND THEIR DESCENDANTS.

THE BOOK FEATURES 12 DISHES THAT SHOWCASE CULTURAL AND FAMILIAL HISTORIES FROM AROUND MINNESOTA.

CO-AUTHOR RYAN STOPERA IS A LOCAL PHOTOGRAPHER AND FILMMAKER, AND HE'S JOINED BY LOUIS HANSON, ONE OF THE COOKS FEATURED IN THE BOOK.

THIS IS SUCH A GREAT IDEA.

I JUST LOVE IT.

THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

THANKS FOR TALKING ABOUT THE BOOK.

SAY, RYAN, HOW DID THIS THING COME TOGETHER?

I THINK IT'S JUST A REALLY GREAT IDEA FOR A BOOK.

>> YEAH, APPRECIATE THAT.

I WAS MANAGING A RESTAURANT FOR A FEW YEARS, AND JUST DEEPENED MY RESPECT FOR CHEFS AND PEOPLE WHO TAKE CARE OF THE COMMUNITY THROUGH FOOD.

WITH RISING XENOPHOBIA, YOU KNOW, IT WAS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO CELEBRATE, NOT ONLY CHEFS, BUT IMMIGRANT CHEFS AND THEIR STORIES.

>> Eric: YOU GET KIND OF A FEELING FOOD IS A PART OF CULTURE.

>> EXACTLY.

AND COMING FROM WHERE I COME FROM, WHICH IS GHANA, FOOD HAS ALWAYS BEEN PART OF THE CULTURE.

SO WHEN I GO THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE PART OF THIS BOOK, I WAS, LIKE, OKAY.

>> Eric: IN THE PORTION ON GHANA, BEN McKEY, ONE OF OUR PHOTOGRAPHERS HAS BEEN TO GHANA, AND HE AGREED WITH YOU THAT THE BETTER FOOD WAS IN THE HOMES, NOT IN THE FANCY RESTAURANTS.

IN GHANA.

>> YES.

THAT'S ONE OF THE LINES IN THE BOOK, IF YOU COME TO GHANA WITH ME, I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE YOU TO THE FANCY RESTAURANTS, THE REAL FOOD, THE REAL FLAVORS, THE REAL CULTURE, THE REAL PEOPLE, USUALLY FOUND IN THE LLEYS WHERE YOU HAVE TO LIKE DODGE GUTTERS AND GET TO THE REAL WOMEN WHO ARE MAKING THE REAL FOOD.

YEAH, IT'S TRUE.

I CONFIRM THAT.

>> Cathy: DO YOU THINK OTHER CULTURES KIND OF THE SAME THING, RYAN?

SOME OF THE RESEARCH YOU'VE DONE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND JUST THE CARE THAT DIANA, MY COLLABORATOR AND THE DESIGNER OF THE BOOK, WE WERE JUST TAKEN CARE OF IN EVERY HOME.

LIKE MADE WELCOME, LIKE WE WERE PART OF THE FAMILY.

AND THE FOOD WAS JUST INCREDIBLE.

>> Eric: HOW DO YOU PICK, WAS IT 12 RECIPES?

>> 12.

>> Eric: HOW DO YOU PICK THEM?

WAS IT A COMPETITION TO GET A RECIPE IN THE BOOK?

>> NO, IT WAS QUITE EASY.

I MET RYAN THROUGH A FRIEND OF MINE.

AND WHEN HE SPOKE TO ME ABOUT THE PROCESS AND THE VISION, IT WAS EASY FOR ME TO CHOOSE WHAT TO COOK BECAUSE THE MAIN VISION WAS HOW TO TAKE CARE OF YOUR COMMUNITY.

IN TIMES OF -- IN TIMES LIKE THIS, IN TROUBLED TIMES LIKE THIS, HOW DO WE TAKE CARE OF OUR COMMUNITY AND BUILD A RESILIENT ONE, TO FIND JOY IN WHAT WE DO.

AND IT'S EASY TO GO BACK TO WHERE YOU COME FROM.

SO MY RECIPE IS MAINLY ROOTED, WHAT MY MOTHER WAS COOKING WITH ME IN THE KITCHEN WHEN I WAS A KID.

SO THE VERY FOOD THAT WE HAD EATEN, WHEN WE HAVE LESS RESOURCES, LESS MONEY, SO WE'RE ABLE TO FIND JOY IN THE LITTLE THINGS THAT WE DO.

SO, YEAH, THAT'S WHAT -- CHOOSING WHAT TO COOK IS USUALLY EASY.

>> Cathy: I LOVE THE FACT THAT YOU HAD A PLAYLIST, A PLAYLIST THAT WENT WITH SOME OF THE RECIPES.

BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE COOK TO MUSIC.

>> YEAH.

>> Cathy: RIGHT.

TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT.

>> YEAH, IN GHANA, YOU CAN TAKE MUSIC -- YOU CAN'T TAKE MUSIC AWAY FROM THE CULTURE.

WHEREVER THERE IS FOOD, THERE'S PEOPLE.

AND WHEREVER THERE'S PEOPLE, THERE'S MUSIC.

AND WHEREVER THERE'S MUSIC, THERE'S DANCIN'.

SO THE JOY STILL RESOUNDS IN THE EXPERIENCE FOR EVERYTHING.

SO I WAS, LIKE, YOU CAN COME TO MY HOUSE, EXPERIENCE A WHOLE GHANA FOOD, IT WILL BE AN INJUSTICE NOT FOR ME TO SHOW YOU THE REAL FULL EXPERIENCE.

SO I HAD TO, LIKE, PLAY THE SONGS ALONGSIDE COOKING THE FOOD.

AND THE SONGS ARE CAREFULLY PICKED FROM THE REGION THAT I COME FROM, WHICH IS WESTERN REGION.

AND WHICH INFLUENCES THE FOOD, THE FISHY COMPONENTS OF THE FOOD.

SO, THERE WERE LEGENDS IN HIGH LIFE AND DANCE HALL, SO THOSE WERE THE SONGS THAT ENDED UP ON THE PLAYLIST.

>> Eric: I WANT O CALL THIS THE PEOPLE'S COOKBOOK BECAUSE IT'S NOT THE TYPICAL MARKETING OF THE CELEBRITY CHEF.

>> EXACTLY.

>> Eric: THAT MUST BE PURPOSEFUL.

>> GIVING THE FLOWERS TO THE INVISIBLE STORIES THAT YOU DON'T ALWAYS HEAR.

>> Eric: AND A LOT OF APPRECIATION THAT THEY WERE BEING, YOU KNOW, LISTENED TO AND FEATURED?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

YOU KNOW, WE'RE ARCHIVING HISTORY.

A FRIEND OF MINE, HER GRANDMOTHER FLEW UP FROM FLORIDA, HAITIAN IMMIGRANT, WHO HAD NEVER ARCHIVED THIS RECIPE OR THEIR STORY.

SO IT'S POWERFUL.

IT'S SPECIAL.

>> Cathy: I WONDER HOW MUCH A CELEBRATED CHEF LEARNS FROM THE FOLKS IN THE BACK OF THE HOUSE.

IS THERE ANY WAY TO QUANTIFY THAT?

YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYIN'?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN, IDEAS, RECIPES, THEY'RE OFTEN EXTRACTED FROM THOSE INVISIBLE CARETAKERS AND CHEFS.

SO, I'M GLAD THAT CHEFS LIKE LOUIE GOT CELEBRATED IN THIS BOOK.

>> Eric: DO THE RECIPES GET HANDED DOWN GENERATION TO GENERATION?

>> EXACTLY.

SO, AS I SAID, THESE ARE FOOD THAT MY MOTHER COOKED FOR ME IN THE KITCHEN, WHEN WE WERE KIDS.

IF YOU GET INTO THE BOOK, YOU GET TO KNOW HOW THE FOOD IS MADE AND HOW SHE USES THAT FOOD AS A SOCIAL CUE TO GET US TO COME BACK FROM SCHOOL QUICKLY, BECAUSE MOST TIMES, LIKE, WHEN PEOPLE GO TO SCHOOL, THEY DON'T -- THE KIDS DON'T GET -- THEY TRY TO PLAY AROUND, BUT SHE USED THE FOOD TO MAKE SURE WE COME.

SO IT'S HANDED DOWN.

IT'S MOSTLY -- ENGAGE OUR SENSES.

>> Eric: GOTTA GO.

"BACK OF THE HOUSE, FROM THE CARETAKERS OF OUR COMMUNITIES."

>> Cathy: I LOVE THIS.

>> Eric: PERFECT FOR HOLIDAY GIFT GIVING.

GOOD LUCK WITH IT.

>> Cathy: THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

♪ >> ERIC: THE STATE'S FINANCES ARE A MIXED BAG, BUDGET FORECASTERS PREDICT A SURPLUS FOLLOWED BY A SHORTFALL.

POLITICAL REPORTER MARY LAHAMMER ALSO ASKS HOW FRAUD CAN BE ACCOUNTED FOR AS THE VOLATILE ISSUE GAINED NATIONAL ATTENTION.

>> Mary: THE UDGET FORECAST SHOWS A MORE THAN $2 BILLION SURPLUS, BUT GOING FORWARD, A SHORTFALL OF MANY MORE BILLIONS IS ESTIMATED.

THE U.S.

ATTORNEY HAS REFERENCED NEARLY A BILLION DOLLARS OF FRAUD IN GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS.

LAWMAKERS HAVE ESTIMATED THE NUMBER OF AT LEAST A BILLION.

HAVE YOU ASKED FOR THAT NUMBER?

AND DO YOU HAVE ANY SENSE HOW MUCH IT MIGHT BE IN THE SURPLUS?

>> I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY'RE GETTING THAT NUMBER.

SO THEY'RE -- >> Mary: IS IT A FAIR NUMBER, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE NUMBER?

>> I THINK IT CERTAINLY COULD BE, WE DON'T KNOW ON THIS.

IT'S ONE THING, AS I HEAR FROM LEGISLATORS, AS EVERYONE IN THIS ROOM KNOWS, THE PRESS KNOWS, THERE'S NO DATA PRACTICES THEY'RE COMING FROM SO YOU CAN ASK WHATEVER.

>> Mary: WE DID HEAR FROM GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS, IT'S IN THERE.

>> THE AUDITS ARE NOT DONE YET, THEY'RE HAPPENING.

THEY'RE DOING THESE OUTSIDE OF THIS, THESE ARE INDEPENDENT FOLKS, NOT IN STATE GOVERNMENT THAT ARE DOING THAT.

WHEN THAT COMES BACK, WE WILL KNOW.

>> Mary: HOW DO YOU ACCOUNT FOR THE FRAUD THAT'S NOT ACCOUNTED FOR?

>> SO SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS , THAT'S A REALLY GOOD POINT THAT WE DON'T HAVE THE TOTAL NUMBERS IN.

THE THINGS WE COULDN'T GET OVER THE FINISH LINE WAS THE INDEPENDENT OFFICE OF INSPECTOR GENERAL.

HOUSE DEMOCRATS BLOCKED THAT AND WOULD NOT LET IT THROUGH.

THAT IS ONE OF THE TOP THINGS THAT WE WILL LOOK AT DOING.

>> Mary: SPEAKER DEMUTH IS ONE OF A DOZEN REPUBLICANS RUNNING AGAINST GOVERNOR WALZ, SO THE POLITICS OF SESSION AHEAD COULD BE COMPLICATED.

>> BILLIONS IN TAX INCREASES THAT WERE IMPLEMENTED BY THE TRIFECTA AREN'T NOUGH TO KEEP UP WITH THE OUT-OF-CONTROL SPENDING AND FRAUD.

>> Mary: BUDGET FORECASTERS SAY THEY COULDN'T CALCULATE FRAUD IN THIS FORECAST BUT IT SHOWS UP WITH SPENDING IN HIGHER HEALTHCARE COSTS, ALONG WITH SLOW ECONOMIC GROWTH.

>> FURTHER, LOW-GROWTH ECONOMY CAN MORE EASILY SLIP INTO RECESSION.

>> YOU SEE THE IMPACTS OF TARIFFS, YOU SEE THE IMPACT OF SOME IS OF THE -- SOME OF THE IMPACTS ON HEALTHCARE, ON MEDICAID SPENDING.

>> THERE'S A REASON THAT THIS PRESIDENT SAYS HATEFUL, OUTRAGEOUS THINGS, CREATING SOME NEW CRISIS EVERY AY, IT'S BECAUSE HE'S SCARED AND IT'S BECAUSE HE'S WEAK.

HE'S AFRAID IN THE KNOWLEDGE THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE LEARNING MORE EVERY DAY ABOUT THE GREAT GRIFT, REALLY, A THEFT, THE LARGEST TRANSFER OF WEALTH FROM THE POOR TO THE RICH.

OF >> THE BIGGEST SINGLE TAKEAWAY FROM THIS BUDGET FORECAST IS THAT THE SAME HEALTHCARE COST INCREASES HAT ARE HITTING FAMILY BUDGETS ACROSS MINNESOTA ARE NOW IMPACTING THE STATE BUDGET.

>> THE PRESIDENT HAS CREATED CHAOS IN OUR ECONOMY.

>> Mary: WALZ IS OW BRACING FOR THE START OF ANOTHER BIG GOVERNMENT PROGRAM TO CREATE PAID FAMILY LEAVE, HE SAYS IT WILL HAVE SAFEGUARDS AGAINST FRAUD.

>> MY MESSAGE IS SIMPLE ON THIS.

YOU COMMIT FRAUD IN MINNESOTA, YOU'RE GOING TO PRISON.

I DON'T CARE WHAT COLOR YOU ARE, WHAT RELIGION YOU ARE.

ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO HELP US IN THAT, WE WELCOME THAT.

BUT SETTING ON THE SIDELINES AND THROWING OUT ACCUSATIONS, AND LET'S BE VERY CLEAR, DEMONIZING AN ENTIRE POPULATION AND LYING TO PEOPLE ABOUT THE SAFETY AND SECURITY OF THIS STATE IS BENEATH THAT.

>> BECAUSE OF THIS PAID FAMILY LEAVE, I'M GOING TO BE LOOKING FORWARD TO SOME TIME WITH HER THAT I OTHERWISE WEREN'T WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SPEND.

>> Mary: THE GOVERNOR AS A HIGH-PROFILE FORMER VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE HAD TO DEFEND HIMSELF FROM ATTACKS FROM THE PRESIDENT AND NEW SCRUTINY FROM THE NATIONAL MEDIA, OVER FRAUD HERE.

>> DO YOU TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR FAILING TO STOP THIS FRAUD IN YOUR STATE?

>> CERTAINLY.

I TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR PUTTING PEOPLE IN JAIL.

GOVERNORS DON'T GET TO JUST TALK THEORETICALLY.

WE HAVE TO SOLVE PROBLEMS.

AND I WILL NOTE, IT'S NOT JUST SOMALIS.

MINNESOTA IS A GENEROUS STATE.

MINNESOTA'S A PROSPEROUS STATE.

BUT THAT ATTRACTS CRIMINALS.

THOSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO JAIL.

>> WALZ IS A GROSSLY INCOMPETENT MAN.

THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH HIM.

WHEN I WATCH WHAT IS HAPPENING IN MINNESOTA, AND I SEE THESE PEOPLE RIPPING IT OFF, AND NOW I'M UNDERSTANDING AND YOU'RE GOING TO LOOK INTO THIS, I HEAR THEY RIPPED OFF SOMALIANS, RIPPED OFF THAT STATE FOR BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

>> Mary: IMMIGRATION ACTION IN MINNESOTA IS BRINGING UNCERTAINTY AND FEAR AFTER MEMBERS OF THE SOMALI COMMUNITY WERE TARGETED FOLLOWING THE ATTENTION TO CONNECTIONS TO FRAUD.

>> DEPORTED TO GOD KNOWS WHERE!

I.C.E.

AGENTS WOULD DISEMBARK FROM THE AIRPLANE AND UNLOAD BAGS OF SHACKLES FROM THE CARGO HOLD.

>> DEFEND THE DIGNITY AND THE HUMANITY OF ALL OUR IMMIGRANT COMMUNITIES.

[ Cheers ] >> THAT'S RIGHT!

[ Cheers ] >> WHEN OUR NEIGHBORS, WHEN OUR FAMILIES ARE IN THE TIME OF DANGER, WHAT DO WE DO?

WE DO NOT STOP PRAYING.

>> THERE ARE AS MANY AS 100 FEDERAL AGENTS THAT WILL BE DEPLOYED TO THE TWIN CITIES WITH A SPECIFIC FOCUS ON TARGETING OUR SOMALI COMMUNITY.

TO OUR SOMALI COMMUNITY, WE LOVE YOU, AND WE STAND WITH YOU.

>> OUR PRESIDENT IS RACIST, XENOPHOBIC, ISLAMOPHOBIC, AND WE ARE GONNA FIGHT THAT.

>> THE FEAR THAT THE COMMUNITY HAS BEEN EXPERIENCING, IMMIGRANT COMMUNITIES HAVE BEEN EXPERIENCING IN THIS CITY IS REAL.

I HAVE BEEN MEETING WITH PASTORS, IMAMS, BUSINESS OWNERS.

>> Eric: BUSY POLITICAL WEEK, SO LET'S DIVE RIGHT IN WITH THIS WEEK'S DEMOCRATIC PANEL.

ABOU AMARA IS A FORMER LEGISLATIVE STAFFER, NOW AN ATTORNEY IN PRIVATE PRACTICE.

SARAH LÓPEZ, PARTY ACTIVIST AND DIRECTOR.

REPUBLICANS ON THE COUCH, ANNETTE MEEKS, WHO NOW HEADS THE FREEDOM FOUNDATION OF MINNESOTA.

AND BRIAN MCCLUNG IS HERE, FORMER GOVERNOR PAWLENTY SPOKESPERSON, LONGTIME CAPITOL OBSERVER.

SARA WITH THE REVENUE FORECAST, WITH ALL OF THIS THING FLYING AROUND, WHAT CAN WE EXPECT OUT OF THE 2026 LEGISLATIVE SESSION?

>> IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S A SURPLUS, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE WE MIGHT GET A LOT F PEOPLE BEING A LITTLE BIT MORE APPREHENSIVE ABOUT PASSING BIG, BOLD LEGISLATION, AND, YOU KNOW, 2027 IS GOING TO BE A TELLING YEAR FOR EVERYBODY BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE WE MAY OR MAY NOT BE OUT OF IT THEN.

SO WE MIGHT LOOK AT A BIG OF A BORING SESSION NEXT SESSION.

>> Eric: WELL, I WOULD THINK YOU CAN'T DO MUCH WITH ALL THE POLITICS T. WILL BE A LOT OF GOTCHA AMENDMENT SAYS ON -- AMENDMENTS ON THE FLOOR?

>> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HOW BUSY THIS WEEK WAS IN POLITICS IN MINNESOTA, IT WILL BE A HEATED LEGISLATIVE SESSION BUT NOT A BIG LEGISLATIVE SESSION IN TERMS OF PASSING BILLS, GETTING THINGS DONE.

I THINK THE FOCUS WILL BE ON TRYING TO GET THE BONDING BILL DONE.

THAT'S THE ONE BIPARTISAN OPPORTUNITY.

I THINK WE'D ALL AGREE, WE DIDN'T HAVE A BONDING BILL THIS PAST LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

IT WOULD BE NICE TO DO ONE IN WHAT IS THE TRADITIONAL BONDING YEAR.

WE'VE HAD PROBLEMS GETTING THEM DONE IN THE REGULAR BONDING YEAR.

SO WE'LL SEE.

I THINK THAT WILL BE THE MAIN FOCUS.

BUT, YEAH, JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE A SURPLUS NOW, WHEN YOU HAVE A DEFICIT IN THOSE FUTURE YEARS, YOU CAN'T GO AROUND SPENDING A BUNCH OF MONEY AND MAKING THAT PROBLEM WORSE.

>> Eric: WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I THINK IT'S OING TO BE VERY SHORT EXAMINE BRUTAL LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

>> Eric: BRUTAL.

>> I THINK THAT ABOUT THREE MONTHS IS ABOUT ALL THEY HAVE, TECHNICALLY, AND I THINK THEY'LL TRY TO DO A BONDING BILL, BUT, BOY, I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE HORRIBLY POLITICAL AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE VERY POLITICALLY CHARGED.

THERE'S A LOT AT STAKE IN THE 2026 ELECTIONS AND THEY KNOW IT.

>> YEAH, I THINK THERE WILL BE A NARROW BONDING BILL, MAYBE CASH, MAYBE BONDING, YOU CAN FIGURE THAT PIECE OUT.

I DO THINK, YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS THERE, TEN, 12 YEARS AGO, WE DID THIS UNSESSION, WHERE WE FOCUSED ON SOME POLICY STUFF, AND I WONDER IF THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO ACTUALLY TAKE THIS FRAUD ISSUE TO REALLY PUT SOME TEETH AROUND OVERSIGHT AND THINK THROUGH HOW DO WE MAKE OUR STATE AGENCIES STRONGER AND MORE RESILIENT IN THE FACE OF SOME OF THE FRAUD.

>> Cathy: THAT'S A GREAT -- >> THAT'S A GREAT IDEA AND I WOULD SUPPORT THAT, TOO.

>> Eric: THE BIPARTISAN IS BREAKING OUT ALL OVER.

THIS IS INCREDIBLE!

>> Cathy: SAY, LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT WHAT YOU ALL THINK ABOUT THIS WAR OF WORDS BETWEEN TRUMP, PRESIDENT TRUMP AND GOVERNOR WALZ.

AND I'M WONDERING, WITH MY GOP FRIENDS HERE, I DON'T HEAR A LOT OF REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS SPEAKING OUT AGAINST WHAT THE PRESIDENT SAID.

ABOUT HIS RHETORIC.

JIM ABELER DID TODAY.

SPEAKER DEMUTH I NOTED IN A PBS INTERVIEW DANCED AROUND IT.

>> YEAH, I THINK REPUBLICANS OUGHT TO REFLECT ON WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID AND CALL IT OUT AS WRONG AND IMPROPER.

YOU SHOULDN'T PAINT ANY GROUP WITH A BROAD BRUSH LIKE THAT.

AND SAY ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE ARE ALL TERRIBLE.

THAT'S SIMPLY NOT THE CASE.

WHAT HE SHOULD DO, AND WHAT REPUBLICANS SHOULD DO, IS FOCUS ON THE FRAUD.

AND KEEP IN MIND THAT THE PROSECUTORS, FEDERAL PROSECUTORS, SAYING, IT'S MORE THAN $1 BILLION IN FRAUD IN MINNESOTA.

AND THIS ONLY HAPPENED HERE.

SO, IT'S NOT LIKE ALL OF THIS PANDEMIC MONEY ENT OUT ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND FRAUD IN OTHER GENEROUS STATES POPPED UP.

IT'S HAPPENING ONLY N MINNESOTA.

SO, WHAT WAS DIFFERENT AND UNIQUE?

IT WAS THAT STATE GOVERNMENT WAS ASLEEP AT THE SWITCH.

AND ALLOWED THAT FRAUD TO HAPPEN.

SO THEY NEED TO STAY FOCUSED ON THAT, HAVE THAT CONVERSATION ND HOLD HE ADMINISTRATION ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHAT'S HAPPENED, AND YOU SEE IN THESE INTERVIEWS THAT GOVERNOR WALZ IS DOING, HE STILL DOESN'T HAVE A GOOD ANSWER FOR WHAT HAPPENED.

HE DOESN'T TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR IT.

AND HE OUGHT TO.

I MEAN, THIS HAPPENED ON HIS WATCH.

>> YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE HAPPENED ON HIS WATCH?

NOT JUST SOMALIS RIPPING OFF THE GOVERNMENT, OF WHICH THERE HAVE ONLY BEEN, WHAT, 87 CONVICTIONS SO FAR, THAT'S NOT MUCH IN A STATE OF OUR SIZE, BUT IT IS PREDOMINANTLY IN THAT POPULATION, WHICH IS WHAT BATES THE PRESIDENT AND OTHER PEOPLE TO PAINT IT WITH A BROAD BRUSH, WHICH IS REALLY UNFORTUNATE.

WE WERE TAUGHT IN SUNDAY SCHOOL, GOD DON'T MAKE NO GARBAGE.

AND I THINK THAT WAS A REALLY UNFORTUNATE STATEMENT.

BUT I WILL SAY, WALZ'S FRAUD OVERSIGHT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM.

REMEMBER WHEN WE DID THE PAYCHECK BONUSES TO THE PEOPLE WHO SHOWED UP AND HAD TO WORK DURING COVID?

THERE WAS MASSIVE FRAUD IN THAT.

THERE'S VERY LAX OVERSIGHT.

AND THAT IS ALL ON WALZ.

THAT'S NOT ON TRUMP.

>> Eric: ONE THING I THINK THE DEMOCRATS CAN LOOK AND BE POSITIVE ABOUT IS TO THE EXTENT THAT THERE ARE RIFFS IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, TRUMP IS THE GREAT UNIFIER, ISN'T HE?

>> WITHOUT A QUESTION.

THIS IS A MIDTERM ELECTION.

YES, THERE WILL BE LEGITIMATE ISSUES LIKE FRAUD THAT THEY'LL TRY AND THROW AT WALZ AND OTHERS.

STRUCTURALLY SPEAKING THIS SHOULD BE A FAIRLY GOOD ELECTION FOR DEMOCRATS.

DONALD TRUMP, 13 POINTS UNDER WATER.

THAT IS STRUCTURALLY A PROBLEM NOT JUST FOR REPUBLICANS IN MINNESOTA BUT REPUBLICANS ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> I THINK ONE THING WE SHOULD DISCUSS, WHICH I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO TALK MORE ABOUT, IS THE SET OF CRONIES FROM THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION THAT ARE COMPLETELY BENEFITTING FROM OPERATIONS LIKE METRO SURGE.

RIGHT?

WE HAVE THE PRIVATE RECENT COMPLEX, WE HAVE THE BETA COMPANIES THAT SHARE -- DATA COMPANIES, THAT SHARE MY DATA, YOUR DATA, EVERYBODY'S DATA TO BE ABLE TO DEPLOY THE COMPLETELY VILE OPERATIONS THAT HAVE HAPPENED.

AND ALSO WE HAVE, LIKE, THE AIRPORT CARRIERS.

SO THERE'S LIKE A WHOLE SET OF SHADY CONTRACTORS.

IF WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT SHADY CONTRACTORS, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE CONTRACTORS THAT ARE BEHIND ALL THESE OPERATIONS BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE HAVE TO FOLLOW THE MONEY AS WELL.

AND THIS IS INCREDIBLY PROFITABLE AS WELL, FOR A SET OF PRETTY NOT SO GREAT PEOPLE.

>> I MEAN, AS YOU LOOK AT THE 2026 ELECTIONS IN MINNESOTA, I JUST DON'T SEE HOW GOVERNOR WALZ GETS BEYOND THE FRAUD ISSUE.

I THINK THIS IS GOING TO CARRY FORWARD THROUGH THE ENTIRE TIME PERIOD, AND, YOU KNOW, HE'LL POINT TO EXECUTIVE ORDERS AND THESE THINGS.

BUT IT'S STILL -- IT STILL ALL HAPPENED AND HAPPENED JUST HERE IN MINNESOTA.

SO THIS IS PROBABLY THE BEST REPUBLICAN OPPORTUNITY IN 20 YEARS TO WIN A STATEWIDE RACE.

THE QUESTION IS, LIKE ABOU WAS SAYING, IS THE TRUMP MIDTERM, IS THAT GOING TO BE ENOUGH OF A DRAG ON REPUBLICANS TO BE ABLE TO OVERCOME THAT?

SO THOSE ARE KIND OF THE CONFLICTING FACTORS THAT YOU'LL HAVE AT THE TOP OF THE TICKET RACE.

>> THAT'S INCREDIBLY TEMPTING, BUT I FEEL LIKE MINNESOTANS ARE COMPLETELY SEEING THROUGH THE UNCHECKED POWER THAT'S BEING DEPLOYED IN OUR STATE.

THEY'RE COMPLETELY SEEING IT THROUGH.

YOU CAN SEE IT THROUGH COMMUNITIES COMING TOGETHER TO PROTECT THEIR NEIGHBORS AND THEY'RE FEELING THE UNHINGED RESPONSE THAT IS BEING DEPLOYED ON US, BECAUSE OF, YES, FRAUD, WE ALL AGREE THAT THAT IS INCREDIBLY -- THAT'S SOMETHING THAT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN IN OUR STATE, BUT THEY'RE SEEING THROUGH THESE LARGER SCAPEGOAT THAT I DON'T THINK IS GOING TO SERVE WELL TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

[ OVERLAPPING CONVERSATION ] >> THE ONE WAY I WOULD FRAME IT, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A BILLION-DOLLAR BONDING BILL THAT SHOULD BE PASSED THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION, THAT'S BEEN STOLEN FROM TAXPAYERS BY THIS FRAUD ALREADY.

WE KNOW IT'S OVER A BILLION DOLLARS.

THAT'S A SERIOUS ISSUE.

THAT'S HOW THE LEGISLATORS WILL FRAME IT.

WE'VE GOT A REAL PROBLEM TO DEAL ITH.

WE LOST A OT OF MONEY.

BUT WITH THAT SAID, IT'S ALL UNDER WALZ.

THIS DIDN'T HAPPEN BECAUSE WHEN TRUMP WAS PRESIDENT, THIS ALL HAPPENED AFTER TRUMP WAS SWORN IN FOR HIS SECOND TERM AND WALZ WAS ASLEEP AT THE WHEEL.

>> THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT THIS IS A LEGITIMATE ISSUE THAT WILL BE LITIGATED IN THE CAMPAIGN.

>> Eric: WHAT'S THE DEFENSE?

WHAT'S THE DEMOCRATIC DEFENSE?

>> THE STORY'S NOT DONE YET.

TIM WALZ STILL HAS AN OPPORTUNITY FROM NOW ALL THE WAY THROUGH TAXI DAY WILL BE -- ELECTION DAY TO MAKE THE CASE, HE'LL HAVE A BULLY PULPIT THAT NONE OF THE LEGISLATORS WILL, HE'S ABLE TO SET A NARRATIVE AROUND WHAT HE'S DOING TO AKE SURE THIS NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN, IT WILL BEGIN WITH THE EXECUTIVE ORDERS, BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO END THERE.

THERE ARE A LOT OF ACTIONS BETWEEN NOW AND ELECTION DAY THAT WILL MOVE SOME VOTERS.

>> IF WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT STEALING, THERE HAVE BEEN UNCLES, MOTHERS, FATHERS, WHO ARE MEMBERS OF OUR COMMUNITIES, WHO GO TO THE MARKET THAT HAVE BEEN -- THAT HAVE BEEN STOLEN FROM THEIR COMMUNITIES IN THE PAST 48 HOURS, RIGHT,?

WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT STEAL, I DON'T THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE O -- I THINK THAT PEOPLE RE SEEING THROUGH THE CRUELTY OF WHAT'S HAPPENING.

>> Cathy: TO YOUR POINT, JAYLANI HUSSEIN BROUGHT THIS UP IN OUR CONVERSATION THAT HE FEELS THAT THIS IS GOING TO DAMAGE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

AND I'M WONDERING WHAT YOU THINK OF THAT.

I MEAN, THERE WERE SOME SOMALI FOLKS WHO SUPPORTED PRESIDENT TRUMP.

>> YOU CAN DISAGREE WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP IN THE WAY THAT HE DOES THESE ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS AND STILL SAY THE FRAUD HAS TO BE STOPPED AND PEOPLE HAVE TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

THIS IS ONE OF THE RARE ISSUES THAT HAS BROKEN THROUGH.

THIS ISN'T JUST SOMETHING THAT US AND PEOPLE WHO WATCH "ALMANAC" ARE TALKING ABOUT.

THE FRAUD IN MINNESOTA IS SOMETHING THAT EVERYONE IS TALKING ABOUT AROUND THEIR KITCHEN TABLES.

>> Cathy: BUT THE IMMIGRATION -- >> AT THANKSGIVING.

>> BUT THOSE ARE DIFFERENT ISSUES, RIGHT?

SO YOU CAN DISAGREE WITH HOW THAT'S BEING -- >> Cathy: I GUESS I'M ASKING ABOUT THE IMMIGRATION PART.

[ OVERLAPPING CONVERSATION ] >> I'M SORRY.

BUT ELECTIONS IS NATIONAL NEWS.

AND ALL THAT WE'RE SEEING IN NATIONAL NEWS IS THE ADMINISTRATION, RIGHT?

AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT PEOPLE ARE PAYING ATTENTION TO.

AND I KNOW THAT WASTE, FRAUD AND ABUSE ARE LIKE A THING.

BUT WHEN YOU SEE GOP MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE DISTANCING THEMSELVES FROM THE COMMENTS, THEY KNOW THEMSELVES THAT THERE'S SOMETHING OFF HERE.

>> I THINK THE BIGGEST THING ABOUT IMMIGRATION, PRESIDENT TRUMP WHEN HE WAS CANDIDATE TRUMP RAN ON ENFORCING OUR BORDERS AND STOPPING THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.

IF YOU LOOK AT HIS POLLING NUMBERS TODAY, HE IS STILL WAY ABOVE WATER ON THAT ISSUE.

PEOPLE SUPPORT MAKING SURE OUR BORDERS ARE SECURE, OUR BORDERS ARE SAFE, OUR COMMUNITIES ARE SAFE, AND THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE HERE ILLEGALLY, THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO STAY.

VERY STRONG SUPPORT ON THAT ISSUE.

>> Eric: HAS GOVERNOR PAWLENTY BEEN APPROACHED ABOUT A INDEPENDENT RUN FOR U.S.

SENATE?

>> NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.

AND I TALKED TO HIM TODAY.

SO, I DO NOT KNOW ABOUT THAT.

AND I CAN'T IMAGINE.

AGAIN, HE'S TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HE WOULD LOVE TO SERVE, HE DOESN'T SEE A PATH TO THAT.

I THINK HE'S ENJOYING HIS POST-POLITICS LIFE.

>> - >> Eric: I HEARD HE WAS APPROACHED.

YOU DON'T THINK SO?

>> ERIC: WE'VE RUN LONG TONIGHT SO WE'LL HAVE OUR FINAL HISTORY QUESTION OF 2025 FOR YOU NEXT WEEK.

WE HAVE JUST ENOUGH TIME LEFT FOR SOME SHOW-ENDING MUSIC FROM THE ARCHIVES.

AND WE'RE GOING TO KICK OFF THE HOLIDAY SEASON WITH ONE OF OUR FAVORITE MUSICAL GROUPS.

BACK IN 1999, THE STEELES SERENADED US WITH A MEDLEY OF CHRISTMAS CAROLS RIGHT HERE IN STUDIO B. TAKE A LISTEN.

WE’LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

BE CAREFUL.

♪ HARK THE HERALD ANGELS SING, GLORY TO THE NEWBORN KING ♪ ♪ PEACE ON EARTH AND MERCY MILD ♪ ♪ GOD AND SINNERS RECONCILED ♪ ♪ JOYFUL ALL YE NATIONS RISE ♪ ♪ JOIN THE TRIUMPH OF THE SKIES ♪ ♪ WITH ANGELIC HOSTS PROCLAIM ♪ CHRIST IS BORN IN BETHLEHEM ♪ HARK THE HERALD ANGELS SING ♪ GLORY TO THE NEWBORN KING ♪ >> OH, I LOVE THAT.

>> HOW ABOUT THIS ONE?

♪ OH, COME ALL YE FAITHFUL ♪ ♪ JOYFUL AND TRIUMPHANT ♪ ♪ OH, COME, YE, OH, COME, YE, TO BETHLEHEM ♪ ♪ COME AND BEHOLD HIM ♪ ♪ BORN THE KING OF ANGELS ♪ ♪ OH, COME LET US ADORE HIM ♪ ♪ CHRIST, THE LORD ♪ >> THANKS, FRED.

HOW ABOUT THIS ONE?

HOW ABOUT THIS ONE?

♪ JOYFUL TO THE WORLD, THE LORD HAS COME ♪ ♪ LET EARTH RECEIVE HER KING ♪ CAPTIONED BY: VERITEXT/PARADIGM CAPTIONING WWW.VERITEXT.COM ♪ THE LORIES OF HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS ♪ ♪ AND WONDERS OF HIS LOVE ♪ ♪ AND WONDERS, AND WONDERS OF HIS LOVE ♪ >> "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

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AND EDUCATION MINNESOTA: THE VOICE FOR PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

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"ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.