from WXXI news.

This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Spin School of Music welcomed a new dean, only the eighth dean in 100 years of the School of Music and the first woman to hold that position.

Kate Sheeran is an alumna of the Eastman School.

She most recently had been executive director of the Kauffman Music Center in New York City.

She was hired by Eastman to succeed Jameel Rossi.

Previously, Sheeran served as provost and dean of the San Francisco Conservatory of Music.

She comes to Eastman with a desire to see, as she puts it, more joy and music joy in the students as they pursue their careers.

She's a professional horn player herself.

But it's also a time of uncertainty in the arts, from questions about funding to a federal government actively trying to roll back diversity initiatives on many campuses.

Our conversation is the first one with the new.

I mean, it's not new after about nine months, but to us, it's new.

Kate Cherian is the dean of the Eastern School of Music at the University of Rochester.

The Joan and Martin Messinger Dean, we should say welcome.

Thank you for making time for the program.

Thanks for having me here.

And happy to be here.

And you are, as we say, an alumna graduated in 2002, 1998 to 2002.

What was the best time of that?

That 4 or 5 years for you there?

Oh, man.

Hard to pick.

Just one moment.

You know, there's there's moments in terms of the relationships I built that have really turned into lifelong friendships.

And and I've met mentors that have been with me my whole life since that point.

And I can think of lots of musical moments that stick out.

But I was asked that question last year when I was thinking about this job.

What's the thing that sticks with me most about my time at Eastman?

And without question, it was the human connections, that were built there and continued to flourish for me, that were built at Eastman.

What was the moment when you were a student at Eastman, where you realized, I'm going to be the dean of this place?

it didn't happen.

I think it was a few years later.

It might have been.

Last year was the first time I ever thought that, you know, where you're from, where originally I grew up in a tiny town in Vermont.

And so you come to Eastman, and your career takes you to a number of places.

But it really was.

Last year was the first time it kind of occurred to you that you could end up back in Rochester.

Well, you know, all of all of these things in in any field, but specifically in music, some of these positions are fairly singular.

Right?

So I, I can name the times when I thought, maybe leadership is something that's for me, or my heart is pulling me towards education.

And in addition to performance, I can think of all those moments, but the stars sort of have to align for you to be qualified and ready at the moment.

The position.

So it wouldn't have been right for me to think of any specific singular position.

I think at at any point has it over the last eight, nine months gone from being sort of surreal to be back to feeling like, okay, this is home.

I'm in a rhythm here.

Yeah.

Although it's a, it's a, a healthy mix.

I still have those surreal moments, especially.

I have a lot of friends who are alumni who've who've taken this opportunity to come back and visit this year, which is really fun for me.

You know, some of them will come over and visit their friends and colleagues, and former teachers at Eastman.

But I see repeatedly them walk into Kodak, Eastman Theater or Kilburn Hall and get that, you know, your your breath taken away feeling that I had a lot last July and you know, have when I see our students this year.

But but it's getting to be more routine for me.

So what is your first memory of music of your life?

Go back to your childhood.

What's the first youngest memory of music?

Well, my mom always sang with us a lot.

I have a very large extended family, and my grandfather was always playing the piano, so I'm a sucker for a singalong.

And that definitely comes from.

From those.

There's pictures of me with, you know, my grandfather playing and all of us singing around him.

So I think probably is from that time or from, you know.

Yeah, those are the things that stick out to me first.

Do you remember what you used to sing?

Oh, well, my grandfather was he he was first generation American.

His family came from Ireland, and he grew up in deep Brooklyn.

And he had the stick Brooklyn accent, and he was an FBI agent, but he played show tunes and standards and things like that.

So I learned a lot of that repertoire that way.

Did you have a family that said, well, come hell or high water, you're taking an instrument, you're learning instruments, you're going to lessons.

Did that happen at home?

no, not really.

I think we all had lessons at some point.

And we had, you know, even in our small town in Vermont, had the opportunity to play an instrument.

So I took piano lessons.

They didn't really stick.

I'm not a great pianist.

but when I got to French horn, it sort of stuck.

And my parents let me try a lot of different things.

but eventually the other activity sort of peeled off and music pushed through.

So my son, you could try to get him into piano.

He ends up in drums.

His best buddy piano ends up in guitar.

How did you end up in horn?

it's a combination of things.

I had an elementary school music teacher that I adored, and she needed French horns in the band, and I had pretty good pitch because we had sung a lot at home and I'd taken music class and the partials and on the horn.

The mechanics of it are that if you can't hear it, you have a if you can't hear that note, you have a really hard time playing it.

So she said, hey, you've a pretty good year.

Why don't you try this?

And the teacher, you know, I liked her so much.

I said, yes, and luckily my mom sought out opportunities and teachers for me, for years after that, that that kind of kept me on that path.

No, I mean, that's the story that a lot of people who end up in professional careers or pursuing degrees in music have, which is a lot of a lot of people in that category will be able to point to a mentor or a teacher.

Private lessons.

is it part of your vision to say, we don't have a perfectly egalitarian world, but we've got to get more people into this.

Who their family may not be able to afford a private teacher.

And we've got to find ways to reach and connect with people.

Yes.

it is part of, like, what?

It drives me every day.

It's part of what gets me up and gets me to work every day is that I just believe in music education for everyone as much as possible.

And I've seen the fruits of that in so many different ways.

Of course, with our college students.

But, you know, we have close to 2000 students at Eastman Community Music School as young as two up to senior citizens.

And in my last role at Kaufman, we had a public school, and the academics that spoke to the to the power of music education.

If you give students more music, everything rises academics, college acceptance rate, all of that.

Well, our colleague at six I classical 91 five, Steve Johnson and some of the wonderful colleagues, in production in this building have put together in the key of Z, which is we've really been enjoying.

You're nodding.

I hope you've been enjoying I haven't we had some community music school students on.

Absolutely.

So I'm not going to do a full key of Z style interview.

But but I'm curious to know for you.

Yeah.

I mean, one composer, desert Island.

who is it?

Oh, this is this is the hardest question.

We actually were just we I was having, a lunch with some colleagues, and I got asked this question.

I don't know.

You know, it's it's probably, it depends on the day.

It could be classical music.

It could be, you know, Brahms symphonies or Brahms chamber music.

It could be Joni Mitchell's Blue, you know, one disc is hard.

it might be some of my friends music.

If I were alone on a desert island, I might want music written and performed by my friends as a comfort.

So that's a tough question.

And if it has to be from the sort of the classical era, who's the top?

Who's the top of your mountain?

I can't I can't even be can't answer, I can't you can't dodge.

Barely been here ten minutes.

You know, I, I it's like someone saying, how about that concert last week to me?

Well, I probably went to ten concerts last week.

Right.

How do I choose?

I'm going to let you get away with dying.

okay.

Fair enough.

the horn though, as as an instrument.

how how does it rank?

How should people pursue horn?

What makes you convince them?

This is a beautiful instrument.

This is the road you should be going down.

What is a beautiful instrument?

I mean, the the lines we get to play and, you know, some of some of the music that's written for horn is beautiful, I think, you know, but someone should only play it if they want to.

I've seen lots of students, beefy push towards one instrument when they wanted another.

I would never do that.

I would never advise that.

So if your student is gravitating, if your son is gravitating towards drums, let him.

But piano will serve him well, you know, in addition, I'd say for horn.

you know, I joke, but it's true that it teaches you to be both humble and bold because you might miss a note, but you got to go for it.

Are you definitely not going to get it?

And there's a lot of parallels with, leadership gigs and playing horn that way.

what's better administering, managing or, teaching horn?

because you're still teaching some.

I'm not teaching now.

Oh, yeah, I have, I have, yeah.

my appointment is in horn, but I'm not.

We have a wonderful horn professor, and I know that firsthand.

Peter Carroll, because he was my professor.

Plant.

Anybody?

No, no, no, but but I it's it's it's fun for me, because Peter Caro is was my horn professor, and he is still the horn professor at Eastman.

so that's been fun to talk about.

Cyril.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, this past year, I got to present him with his alumni medallion at alumni weekend, and he looked at me and said, well, here's a moment I never imagined, right?

And I felt that way, too.

now I'm forgetting what your original question was.

Well, let's let's move in a better direction, okay?

Because I derailed all of that's okay.

That's okay.

can I can I stand, can I stand, or can I at least clap between movements?

I heard this on the show yesterday that you did.

And the the, your colleagues said, which is true, that that's sort of an advent of the recording.

Yeah.

Of doing live recording new things.

Like, I did not know that history the tradition has become that there are certain pieces, where people clap in between movements.

But any time someone is listening to music and is happy and expresses that happiness, I'm happy.

you know, I don't.

I think it's fine.

it'll be it would be interesting if the trend shifts back.

It's not the trend, but any performers on stage are always happy if the audience is happy and expressing that.

So you think if that became more the norm, it's going to take a few brave souls to do it?

I've done.

I've accidentally clap between movements sometimes.

You don't exactly know, and I think sometimes I maybe because I go to so many concerts, I think, oh, I got this one.

You know, I have a little and a little overconfident and it's okay.

Nobody minds.

Are you sure?

Because there's this idea that the whole hall is going to turn to you.

Like, who invited this person?

Well, it's better than being the person who walks out or falls asleep or much better.

Yeah.

So why not?

Okay, well, we'll see in the future if that trend can change, can change.

And I want to thank my colleague Steve Johnson for bringing that a little bit of that history, because I would have thought that was true from the beginning.

And it was not true.

There used to be all kinds of applause.

And I should have known that because we talked about the story about how before recorded music, not only was there applause, but there were times where audiences would ask entire orchestras to redo a movement because they don't know when the next time they get to hear it.

So, I'm fine for anything that makes it less stuffy.

Yeah, absolutely.

And, later this spring, we have the, Eastman Philharmonia performing the epic Stravinsky piece Rite of Spring and are all kinds of stories about when Rite of Spring was premiered and there were people, you know, up in arms about it because it was so different.

But that's what art should do.

We should react, and it should push us to think different things.

You did an interview with, Spectrum News, and you gave this answer that at first I was like, oh, that's so cheesy.

But then I was like, think that was thinking about, like, now there's, there's a, there's a lot of beauty in this answer you talked about.

Your favorite place on campus is a set of marble stairs.

What is it?

Why?

yeah.

So if you walk in Lowry Hall, which is the main hall at Eastman, first of all, it's an inspiring, space in and of itself.

But there's a grand staircase that goes up, and this is a little bit true as you go up.

But the steps down, really to the, the basement where students store their lockers have, you can feel the grooves in the marble.

You feel the footsteps of everybody who's stepped in those steps.

And I, I always used to think about it when I was a student because you think of wow, all the musicians have been here and all the faculty and students.

And now I think about our students stepping into those steps and adding their footsteps and making sure we're taking care of the school for the future.

you said something else.

The spectrum I thought was interesting.

You said one of the best things about our art form is that we can reflect the world around us.

Absolutely.

It's always more interesting when there are more voices in the choir.

So, I want to ask you, as the first woman who has been a dean of the Eastman School ever, only eight dean and 100 years in the first woman.

Do you get tired of hearing that or does that?

Is that a point of pride for you?

I yeah, I mean, to to be dean of the school is a point of pride for me, for sure.

But, these I feel the response to.

I wouldn't say wait, but I feel the responsibility of that just being Dean.

I think when I think about my role as a woman in that, it's about who comes after me and who else can see themselves as a dean because they saw somebody different in that role.

And that's true throughout our field, throughout any field.

But in music, you know, there's the old adage, if you can't see it, you can't be it.

Of course, that's not exactly true, because we can all think of people who have been first in their field.

but I've seen it repeatedly with students that when they see, someone who has a similar background, that they too can imagine themselves, their we've talked in the last couple of months to, officers, administrators at higher ed campuses across our region, and they are pretty quickly trying to adapt to some of what we're seeing come out of Washington.

the challenge to D-I diversity initiatives, etc.. in general, are you someone who thinks it's valuable to be intentional about setting the idea of we need, take any number of initiatives, Dei initiatives, efforts to outreach in different places, creating a more representative campus.

Is that still part of the goal that you have?

Absolutely.

And our mission hasn't changed.

It's right in our mission statement, you know, for the university and for Eastman specifically, there's a line in our mission statement that is about making a musical community that is rich in cultural, social and intellectual diversity and that makes everybody better, more perspectives make things more interesting.

we have students from all over the world at Eastman.

We want to learn from them as much as we're teaching them while they're there.

And we want them to feel great being there.

And it's interesting in the field of music, specifically that the journey to become a musician is so long.

So really, if we're talking about anything, we want to change in the field, even for professional musicians.

We also have to be talking about five year olds and opportunities and school music programs and, how we're showing the pathway and building the pathway.

And I think that's a lot of our responsibility as an institution.

And in music.

I've talked to leaders in local government, town governments, counties, administrators and higher ed.

And there's this ongoing conversation about, you know, some not everybody has a Dei officer Dei department.

There's questions about whether they can or should continue those.

Does Eastman have that?

do you have the we have the George Walker Center, which is one of the ways that we engage students.

And that's really the home for a lot of our student activities, in coordination with student life.

But a lot of our student led initiatives, we have a number of affinity groups, everything from a new one called Empower Her about lifting up women in music to Elsa, which I get the acronym right is, Eastman, Latino Hispanic Associate Students Association or Black Students Union.

If I, if I try to list them all, I'll miss somebody.

But these are all student initiatives, and they're for students to hang out with and learn with and perform with as students like them, but also for them to interact with the rest of our community and show us, what's important to them.

So you're not scaling back on any of that?

Our mission has not changed.

Of course, we we are in touch with everybody, like all schools at the university and all schools across the country, that we're making sure that we're following what's happening with government.

Of course, we're in touch with our government relations and other offices at the university to to to make sure we're, you know, monitoring regulatory, the regulatory environment.

But, our work continues and, and our, our work is more interesting, with more in different perspectives.

What about festivals, events that are intentional about celebrating diversity, like gateways.

Are they going to continue and be supported?

gateways.

You know, we I, part of my role is to be ex-officio on certain boards and gateways is one of them.

And we were just having a I was just having conversation, with Alex Lang, who is the president and artistic, director.

And gateways isn't a diversity initiative.

Gateways is specifically to uplift black classical musicians.

and so it just like, you know, any initiative that would celebrate any part of, specific culture.

and so gateways intends to continue its mission and their festivals coming up, end of April.

Lots of great concerts.

Are you worried about any loss?

And again, I'm not inside the books or.

I don't understand how everything gets funded.

That's not my job.

But is there a concern that what's happening in the federal government could impact funding opportunity grants that are in the future?

yes.

and I think, all kinds of changes affect funding for us.

Right.

And, certainly anything that affects the university and a at a primarily research university, that is a very real issue right now that we're all dealing with in the arts.

Federal funding tends to be a smaller amount anyway.

But, indirectly, we're worried about it.

And also, you know, funding that has to be redirected to other sources if there's funding changes could affect us and set aside what's happening with this particular administration in general, how is Eastman doing with its with its goals, its missions, its fundraising, how healthy is the are the finances?

So we have lots of ways we measure, you know, the health of the school.

One of them is, admissions and our admissions are very healthy.

We had a pretty record year last year, and we're holding steady.

this is the time.

Offers just went out, so we'll know soon how many students enroll?

generally, we're we're healthy, financially.

But I'm playing for the home team here, so I always think we can do better.

and I want to make sure we have more and more resources, especially for scholarship for students, because, you know, as I said earlier, I just want as many people to have this education as they can.

And for finances not to be a barrier.

I've brought this up a number of times.

Listeners have heard me say to organizations that are facing similar situations where you don't know if there's going to be cuts.

Sometimes you're even more relying on a community.

And yes, philanthropy.

That's right.

Have you found more doors opening because people perceive things getting tighter and more difficult, or is it, more difficult to find donors, bigger donors, etc.?

I think it's hard for me to tell nine months in because it takes a while to understand that, I can give a comparison, you know, in my last role, when I was at Kaufman, I was about a year in when Covid hit, and that was certainly a challenge for arts organizations, for every organization.

But a lot of resources went for very good reason to health care and things like that first.

And so the arts were, later on to receive funding, and we didn't know it was going to happen.

But what I noticed during that time, and I hope is always the case, is that people kind of thought, what would life be like without this place, without what they do, without, you know, the education they give or the art they provide.

And you saw a lot of people stepping up to help support the places they love.

So if it is a great time to do that, I know the same is true in public radio.

All kinds of things.

But for for people to really think, you know what, what provides joy or solace or the organizations that they really love?

We could always use to help.

Do you have a philosophy of leadership?

You've been in a number of places I like.

I get kind of geeky trying to think about how people lead because there's different leadership styles.

and now here you are.

You're coming from Kaufman.

You've been in San Francisco.

You've done a lot of leading.

what's your theory of leadership?

I yeah, I don't know.

I don't know that I a you know, because I'm a musician.

It's going to sound cheesy, but I relate a lot of things to to music and how I've learned music is sort of how I've learned a lot about life.

And you can do sort of the conductor, an orchestra style, or you could do chamber music style where you're all working on something together.

And I've gotten further chamber music style where you're really rallying people around shared goals and opportunities and working as a team to move forward.

So that tends to be my approach.

Although there's a there's a lot of people to learn both at Eastman and throughout the University of Rochester.

And so I'm still getting to to put those groups in place and look forward to getting us moving forward together.

What has changed in Rochester the most in that 22 year gap?

When you left and then you came back as Dean?

Well, I it's hard to say.

You know, when I was a student, I didn't leave the two blocks, between on Gibbs Street was job was there.

Jarvis was very much there.

You know, someone said to me, oh, yeah, I know Rochester.

There's a place you should really check out.

It's called Jarvis.

And I said Jarvis is where I first tasted coffee.

So, you know Jarvis, but also Jarvis.

I think it's the same ownership with good luck and Lucky's.

And there's a lot I would say there's a lot of great restaurants.

but I had never been to the Finger Lakes.

I'd never been anywhere in this area because we were.

So.

I was so focused on it.

Yeah, yeah.

I, you know, I think my knowledge of the university and the opportunity we have to be part of the university is part of what drew me back, because I've been, at schools within universities, but also independent schools and organizations.

And the questions we can ask and answer as a music school within a research university are amazing.

And that's part of what makes me feel lucky to be here this time.

Talking to Kate Charron, who is the dean of the Eastman School of Music at the University of Rochester and been here for the better part of year.

It hasn't been a year.

It'll be in July.

It'll be one year for Dean Sheeran since taking over the position.

Jamel Rossi, the previous Dean and Kate, is just the eighth dean in 100 years, so I suspect that means you expect to be in this position for a while.

I hope so, I hope so, yes.

Yeah.

So this is a community you want to stay in?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And I lived in New York City, with the exception of three years in San Francisco.

I lived in New York City for the better part of it.

Well, past two decades.

Right.

And I hadn't necessarily expected to move, but Rochester is a great place to be.

It's such a music town.

there's a lot of support for music here, but it's a there's a lot of great culture here.

We love going to, you know, memorial art gallery and local theater and different performances when we can.

So I'm very happy to be here.

Biggest advantage being in Rochester Vis-A-Vis New York City.

Oh well, okay.

I can have a personal and professional answer to that.

professionally.

So I love New York.

I love the schools, but it's sort of a singular environment.

Right.

in that the amount of opportunities, the amount of things that are happening, things like that, it's sort of hard to cut through in in Rochester, you have a breadth of wonderful performing arts organizations, arts organizations.

You have everything at the university.

But Eastman, I think by sheer number of events, we're probably the largest performing arts center in Rochester, and that comes with opportunity and responsibility.

And, you know, the ways we show students how you interact with your city and your community and your home are important because of where we are in Rochester and what we do here.

But that's because they can take that all over the world.

And I think that's a little bit more repeatable in a place like Rochester, than some of the, some of the other cities.

What do you wish Rochester has that New York City has, oh.

Let's see, I need, I, you know, I used to live in Hell's Kitchen, and so I could grab a last minute ticket to walk over to Broadway.

And we certainly have that here, but I just I'd need to take advantage of it, more often, I think, you know, I, I miss seeing friends, specific people, but luckily they come to visit a lot.

you know, there are some convenience things, and I had to adjust to things not being open all the time.

On Mondays, I got tripped up that, you know, I need to find out what are the restaurants that are open on Mondays.

So stuff like that.

But I get I'll be in the city, for a conference at the end of this week, and sometimes we go down and back in the day for, for work.

So it's not so far.

We had a conversation a couple years ago how post-pandemic everything is closed pretty early.

You want to go out late in this town.

There's not a lot of options.

That's true.

And in New York City, you can probably go at almost any hour, any hour.

But there's you can go a lot of options there.

And for musicians, even when I lived in San Francisco, it was an adjustment from New York because we're calibrated to going to dinner after concerts.

And so it's sometimes a challenge to figure out where that can happen.

after we take our only break of the hour, we're going to come back with the dean of the Eastman School of Music at the University of Rochester.

And we're going to talk to Kate, sharing about some of how Kate sees the maybe the role of the students, but even the opportunity for students to impact the world.

That's part of what, the dean was talking to students about, not only finding joy, but seeing the role that they have to create impact and value in communities.

We're going to talk about that.

And this is a school that has a great reputation, obviously, but it's such a competitive music world and there's not a ton of spots.

And I want to I want to kind of talk about what it means to bring really talented students in and help them prepare for a world where it doesn't matters, but it doesn't matter if they're in the top spot because they can impact the world in all these different ways.

So the dean is joining us for the first time on connections, and we'll come right back with this conversation.

I'm Evan Dawson Wednesday on the next connections, we sit down with members of the bench, retired judges talking about their concerns about what they are seeing in Washington.

It is such that the Chief Justice of the United States, John Roberts, put out a public statement rebuking President Trump for his verbal assaults on judges.

We'll talk about it all Wednesday.

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This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson and glad to be joined for the first time on this program by the Dean of the Eastman School of Music, Kate Sheeran, who came back to Rochester, was a student at Eastman, left in oh two, graduated no.

Two, and then came back as the dean in the summer of 2024.

And this is Dean Sheeran's first opportunity to sit down with us on connections.

Now, recently, in here in Rochester, we had a chance to hear from star conductor Leonard Slatkin.

He was in town last week, and he told, my colleagues, Brenda Trombley told me that Eastman was doing well to create smart and realistic expectations for students.

And I want to listen to some of what conductor Leonard Slatkin said about that.

And I love seeing in this country as I go around and do these, the places where the education system is working and the places where it's not.

We have several universities, even music schools, where we're just not doing the right job.

Eastman is it is doing exactly what it needs to do.

It's got a wonderful faculty.

It's got a great administration, and it realizes what its place is.

It's not going to churn out all the top soloists in the world, not all the top singers.

It knows that there are varying degrees.

So there's a reality check that occurs in Eastman that you don't see in as many schools as you should.

What do you make of that?

well, I'm glad he thinks we're doing the right things.

Thank you.

Maestro, I hadn't heard that clip before, and that was a phenomenal concert.

I'd be happy to tell you more about it.

you know, my experience as an a as an alumna and my experience, especially this year, traveling the world, I've been to multiple countries and all over this country meeting with alumni is we have great, hard working musicians who are successful in their chosen field that come out of Eastman, and that's throughout the field.

So, you know, yes, we have, students who go on to be soloists and opera stars.

We have, students who take top spots in the tops, orchestras and opera companies.

But we have K to 12 teachers and people running schools and institutions and creating music software and becoming recording engineers and, composers who are working throughout the industry.

So I, you know, often we think of the star names that come from Eastman, and those are important too.

But I love telling the stories of people who've built organizations that have changed communities or made the next advancement in technology.

So perhaps that's that's, what he's talking about.

The breadth of training that happens at Eastman prepares you for lots of different things.

anything else you want to say about Slatkin visit?

Oh, the concert was amazing.

I mean, the students, you know, he, Leonard Slatkin, you know, has been the music director and Saint Louis Symphony, Detroit, Detroit Symphony for many years, BBC Symphony.

He's one of the great American conductors.

So you can imagine our students being excited to perform with him.

But that was a really interesting concert because he did Ives Variations on America.

Then he did a premiere, not a premiere, but a, performance of a fairly new concerto by Jeff Beal.

Also an alum.

Violin Concerto, really cool piece with another recent alum, the wonderful Kelly Hall Tompkins, as soloist.

And then they did Shostakovich 11.

And when it was a beautiful concert from start to finish.

But when that finish, the amount of applause in the hall, mostly from the students peers, is one of the things that there's just nothing like it.

It's sort of our version of a pep rally, right, to have that much cheering.

But it went on for four hours, and then I went across the street to grab my bag and walk back through the school, and it was like the building was erupting with cheers in the hallway.

So if you want to know if there's a future for music, come to Gibbs Street.

It's there every day.

It's a great story.

And these students, do you think that they have that perspective that you talk about where there's these quote unquote star slots, but there's opportunities to impact the world in countless ways.

do you think that perspective is held on campus?

I think so, you know, our students are so focused on on specifically what they're there to do.

I don't know how many have time to think about exactly where they'll end up.

And I think that's healthy.

I also think in the 20th century in music and specifically in classical music education, we got overly specific, you know, I'm going for that position in orchestra, or I need to be a trombonist in that big band, or I think that's not really how music works.

We we all do some of everything.

Even if you do have primarily one job, you end up doing lots of things.

It was like that for Bach, you know, he didn't do one thing.

And so I think this fluidity is always helpful.

Well, you said that you didn't expect to be the dean when you were a student.

What did you expect to be when you were a student?

you know, so when I was, I was a performance major both here and for my graduate school, for for my master's degree at Yale.

And I knew I would perform at some point, but I took some, classes in music education, music teaching, learning is what we call it now.

It was also the start of the arts Leadership program, which has grown into our Institute for Music Leadership.

So it started sparking different things for me about maybe I do have a knack for.

I don't know whether I would have said leadership, but you know, something where I'm helping to make things better.

And I did internships here, Young Audiences, Rochester, which was here, I learned how to write teachers manuals, and I learned about grant writing and things like that.

So those seeds were there, and it's sort of a funny, twisty turny path about what happened after graduate school.

and kind of how I ended up taking this on.

But after I got out of school, I started doing a combination between teaching and performing and, administration or helping things work.

And, you know, it went from there.

One thing that I think probably affecting students more now than when I was in school, and you and I are on the same page, is that everything feels politicized more than it ever has.

And students now who are at Eastman are aware that there are debates in the arts about what gets funded and why they see the president of the United States put himself on the Kennedy Center board immediately seek to change the programing.

there was a recent piece in the Atlantic about some of the debate that has happened among those who were still on the Kennedy schedule.

Some canceled their shows.

Others have very explicitly said, I'm staying here, and I'm performing until they tell me I can't, because I think that representation really matters here.

Students are seeing all of that.

Absolutely.

First of all, what do you make of what's going on at Kennedy?

it's tough.

I, you know, I have many friends who work there and who perform and, you know, in administration but also who perform in the National Symphony in Washington, Washington National Opera.

So my first thoughts go to them and making sure that they can, I hope that they can do their work and, and stick to their mission.

I think it's too early to know what exactly is going to happen there.

It's difficult.

Yeah, I'm not exactly sure.

I think none of us know what to make of it.

You need to prepare it for the president to put himself on that board.

I don't think it's for it's for me to say, you know, they they have a, particular public private mission, but, I know the board for many years has.

And since the history of the, the Kennedy Center has been bipartisan.

And that makes good sense.

Well, I mean, and this is where, you know, the white House seems to be keying in on just about what everybody's doing in every initiative.

I mean, you know, back in 2020, the Eastman created the Eastman Action Commission for Racial Justice, which issued its final report of recommendations in the fall of 2020. so how is the timeline going from there?

And is that, is that complicated by what's happening?

Is that still sort of a, an active document that Eastman is working from?

There's a lot of things in that, you know, we're, with like that with, with any strategic planning document of which that is one.

Right.

But that lays out a plan we're constantly checking in with how are we doing with with goals and, and that continues.

none of those things are to exclude people.

They're to include people.

That distinction probably.

I'm sure it matters a lot.

Last week on this program, we talked about, we talked to a couple of people who are planning upcoming conferences, focused on women owned businesses and minority owned businesses.

Yes.

And they said, maybe we need to be even more clear that this is not about saying, here's who's not allowed to apply.

That's right.

Here's who's not going to be considered, but to say, we think there are qualified people of every background.

That's right.

And historically, they haven't always even been aware that there's an opportunity.

That's right.

So we want them to know there's an opportunity.

We want them in the consideration.

Absolutely.

Is that a good description?

Yes.

Thank you.

And and we need everybody's help to do it.

And I think that's the thing, it will take all of us to help swing the pendulum, to where it needs to go.

Do your students want you to be political?

Do they want the administration to take stances?

We're not political, you know.

We're we're right, and you almost can't be right.

But.

Yeah, but do the students have that expectation now that there's so much weight on, you know, I, I think of the things that, we were trying to process when I was a student and, and, and the access information we had.

Now it's nothing like students have with constant information.

So, yeah, they're they're finding every way to process information and think about different things.

curious to know what the relationship is between the downtown campus and the river campus.

Has that changed?

you know, what ways would you say they're connected or distinct?

Yeah.

geographically, obviously we're we're, separate.

But I think that's even that is changing where we're at.

you know, we're the Eastman campus, but we're also the downtown campus for the university.

And increasingly that includes memorial Art Gallery and additional medical buildings.

And we're really thinking about how we use all three campuses.

Medical, River campus and downtown campus and how they, how they, interact.

And that's some of my favorite work that we're doing is how we, collaborate with schools across the university.

Well, and certainly talk about change.

artificial intelligence seems to be changing everything pretty quickly.

so I want to ask you a few questions about that.

First.

First of all, AI and music.

Is there any role for AI in creation of music?

yes.

I think if I said no, it would.

We'd be shooting ourselves in the foot, right?

Sometimes classical music especially has has run away from new technology.

And what ends up happening is we have to embrace it in one way or another.

Eventually.

So the more we can harness the power of what actually works and not all of it works, and some of it's scary, but some of it's not.

The more we can work with colleagues to to examine everything about our AI, both in terms of usage, in terms of ethics, in terms of, you know, predicting the future.

We have the opportunity to do that at the University of Rochester.

In a way, a freestanding music school doesn't.

And that's, what what we're starting to do now.

So when it comes to the integrity of the creation though.

And, and frankly, the jobs of the future being there for human beings.

That's what scares me a lot about the arts.

I think about the way that we can use machines ostensibly to make our lives easier.

I mean a lot of the people who are creating this tech will say, well we're just simplifying your lives.

We're taking the mundane tasks out.

Well, creating art is not a mundane task, right.

And, you know, there's a meme that something like, can't we get AI to do the laundry and cook dinner so that I can, you know, write the poetry and dance exactly like, how do we get this?

Yeah.

Right.

So if I were a student now, my concern would be, what does that mean for me?

Does that mean that I, that there will be fewer jobs, that there will be a more narrow public focus on actual humans creating the art?

Are we heading in a dangerous direction that I think you know, again, too soon to tell, but I think we need to work with researchers who are deep into these issues and thinking about these issues together.

But I'll give you another example.

you know, I use a couple Covid examples, but, I did a lot of work I'm really proud of during that time.

And difficult circumstances.

But one of the things that, we all worried about, those of us who run music schools and arts organizations and presenting, was that everything was streamed right.

And we all worried that people weren't going to come back.

Yeah, that the halls weren't going to be full again.

But I saw over and over when we started to have different kinds of performances, people came out, you know, like the human experience requires us to be together and there's nothing I, you know, I have to believe it for my job, but I really believe it with every fiber of my being, that there's nothing like being live and hearing music.

So I can't imagine it's been around since the beginning of time.

I can't imagine it's going away.

But yeah, jobs are going to change.

You know, the, the ways that that film scoring or, sound design or all these things happen.

They, they'll change and we have to figure out ways to, help guide that conversation instead of being a victim of it.

So, I mean, I'm cheering on everything you're saying.

Yes, internally.

But of course, you have to say that people are coming back and they are coming back and mean it's not like there's nobody going to movies.

They're going to the little theater, going to Eastman, whatever.

Yep.

But I wear sweatpants a lot more than I used to.

Yeah, okay.

Fair enough.

There are plenty of days where I get back.

I'm like, I don't wanna leave the house again, but are you are you consume more media or more art?

similar amounts.

I think I go to less in person performance.

And I don't like that.

Yeah, me, I don't know, I'm guessing.

Yeah.

I don't like talking.

I go to none.

Yeah, but I don't like the.

I don't like if it's 10%.

Right.

Because what connects us is a human experience.

And the more we just give up and stream everything from our homes.

Right.

And the more we let the machines do it.

We are risking something that's hard to articulate but I think very real.

That's true.

And I don't think the answer, the answer is somewhere in between.

Right.

It's not.

Everybody's coming to concert halls like we always have.

But not everything is moving to machines.

It's somewhere in between.

And so what is the how do we embrace technology?

How do we move the art form forward?

How do we, you know, bring music to an increasing amount of places?

So it's not just somebody buying a ticket and going to a concert hall, and that takes community and supporters and the work I've been able to do in other places, to bring music outside of concert halls, that's been really meaningful.

But it takes businesses and government and performing arts centers all working together.

Well, I mean, my bias will probably come out when we talk about it soon on this program, but we are going to talk about proposals to get cell phones and screens out of k-through-12 now, higher ed to wholly different thing.

And I get that, in many ways, screens, probably enhance what students can do.

And come on.

Right.

but Governor Hochul has a Bell to Bell proposal to get rid of phones in schools.

We've seen Arkansas do this.

We've seen red states and blue states.

Do you want to see less technology in students hands when they're learning?

Well, and in my experience, in K-12 in the County Music Center, one of the one of the schools is called Special Music School.

It's a public private, school.

And they, they at the high school, they do they have for many years and they do collect cell phones at the beginning of the day and give them back at the end of the day.

is it that is it all the music, whatever, that makes the school successful.

But I don't think it's a it's a coincidence that that, it has led to good results.

You know, it's interesting, when I got back to Eastman last summer, everybody was talking about putting Wi-Fi in the annex.

Now, the annex, if you haven't been there, is our practice building, which I, I also say is a great naming opportunity.

The annex.

Right.

We we could look for a new name, but it's always been called the annex.

But we have an affinity for it.

those of us who went to school there, but it's just floors and floors of practice rooms.

Now, you'd think, why do you need Wi-Fi in the annex?

Well, because students are using iPads instead of printed music, and, you know, you're safer if you have access to your phone and all these things.

So, you know, there are very practical reasons that we need, the technology and that it helps us on a day to day basis as musicians.

yeah, I suppose.

Do you have a Spotify playlist yourself?

what?

So what do you use?

Oh, I use Spotify.

I use Apple Music, I use SoundCloud, I use, you know, it depends on what I'm listening to.

So who's the pop star that I would see the most played on your list?

Oh, my.

I mean, there's been some Chappell ruin rotation, pretty lady.

She's great.

So so.

But this is what I've been thinking about.

Like with I and I think about if I were a student, what would make me nervous.

we've talked about how Randy Travis had 35 years of music, and then lost the ability to sing ten, 12 years ago because of medical conditions.

And so his team took 35 years of music.

They fed it.

And I you can see how technical I am.

and I created a song.

Yeah.

What what certainly sounds like his voice would certainly sounds like the style.

And his family was deeply moved and his wife.

So I feel like he's got his voice back.

But now his fans are saying well that's a new Randy Travis song.

And I'm like, no it isn't right.

I don't think it is right.

So if if they did that with chaperoned and they did like a chaperoned like song, that's not a chaperon.

Agreed.

It's not, it's not, you know, it's not a if somebody out there has created a Beethoven or Shostakovich and that's not Shostakovich.

That's right.

That's I approximating.

But it's good at it and it's only going to get better.

It's okay at it.

It's only going to get better.

That's true.

It's only going to get better.

We just had I just went to a talk at at the River campus, at our colleagues and audio music engineering at the school for engineering had a guest who actually that he spent alum who, writes for commercials and all kinds of things.

And she did a demo of how she uses different AI tools.

Now, they she uses them as tools in her process, and it might make for some things to be more efficient, but it's still absolutely required.

Her and many other musicians to to move them forward.

I know you're cynical about here, but it's my job to be optimistic, and I if I think there are, it's not going to be all one thing or the other, right?

It's not going to be all machines and it's not going to be.

I just don't want it to be.

I just want us to be apathetic to it.

Now that's not that's the baseline.

Yeah.

And I, I said this before, but it's part of what brought me back to Rochester because we have researchers who are looking into these issues every day.

And if we're working together, there's a cool, a really cool initiative at the university right now, for proposals for transdisciplinary centers.

And that's work across schools.

And we have a great one that our faculty have put together, faculty across many disciplines about the intersection of music and sound.

And these are a lot of the issues that we could tackle together, that we can't do alone.

One other question for I ask you to tell us what's coming up on your calendar that you want the community to know about.

and sometimes when you have someone who comes in from out of town into a leadership position, you're trying to deal with issues that popped up before you got.

That's right.

And one example that I've been reading about is Eastman student Rebecca Bryant.

Novak has written publicly about what she says is a culture of misogyny.

At Eastman.

Her blog posts were published, and the incidents occurred before you took over as dean.

But I wonder, you know, have you have you read those?

Have you been thinking of the accusations?

Do you agree with that assessment of the culture?

Do you think the culture is changing?

What do you think?

I think our culture is is good.

And I can say that we are making sure that everybody who is in our school is safe and can thrive and can learn and every, thing, a concern that anybody brings up, we look into.

Absolutely.

But like every school, like every institution, we can continue to evolve and get better.

Have you read Rebecca's writing on this?

Some of it.

Okay.

Okay.

Let's turn to what you're looking forward to most now.

Oh, and you said that technically it's the biggest performing arts center in the region because you always have something going on.

Yeah, it's close to a thousand concerts, I think.

and so on a day to day basis, there's probably four concerts every day minimum.

You know, we're looking at student degree recitals, faculty artists, we're looking at, you know, large concerts.

So for anyone local, the vast majority of what we do at Eastman is free and open to the public.

And I know that free sometimes doesn't always feel welcoming if you've never been there before.

But we want you to come.

And if you see me or faculty or students, please talk to us.

So, those are things that are happening on Gibbs Street.

So one other and I'll come back and tell you a few highlights.

But we also, when I was a student, there was an initiative called music for All and All the groups went out one day, and played all over town.

And we brought it back this year.

the faculty have done a great job with this, but it's all semester, so there's close to 70 groups that are playing and community centers and libraries, all kinds of places.

So you you might have music coming to you wherever you are.

But if you're going to come to Eastman, I just want to flag that, our spring Opera Theater production, Iona DeMar, which is a speaking of, you know, culture that comes from all over the world.

It's an opera by as vulgarly of, Argentinian composer of eastern European descent about, the story of Lorca during the Spanish Revolution.

And it's in Spanish.

But don't worry, there's English subtitles.

We'll all be able to understand it, but there's lots of flamenco, both dancing and music in it.

So, that would be great to check out.

One of my all time favorites I mentioned it before is A Rite of Spring that's coming up with conductor Brad Lemon later this spring.

but this is the time of year when a lot of our students are doing their degree recitals.

And if you walk into anything that says student degree recital, you're going to see some of the best musicians.

before they embark on their professional career.

So we hope everybody joins us.

How often do you get a chance to create music, or at least played the horn yourself these days?

well, as I mentioned, you know, this isn't the focus of my career.

I played professionally for many years and was very happy to.

But, you're asking me on a fun week because I'm sneaking in the back of these Van Horn choir for a concert on Thursday at 630 with, Professor Peter Curro and also student conductors who are doing a great job.

All kinds of music.

28 French horn players playing at once.

That really, this might be the biggest horn choir or one of them in the country.

The students want to see you playing, I think.

I hope, I hope so, you know, they they're nice to let me play with them now, but I think it humanizes me, and reminds them that, that I'm a, I was a student, too.

That I'm one of them.

Let me close with this here.

I think part of the reason I think a job like yours is very difficult is, really listening to the student body, trying to make sure their concerns are respected.

I, I think the advocacy and activism on campuses is definitely different than it was probably when you and I were in college campuses, and the world changed a lot.

Yeah.

And there are days where I think, you know, having a teenager, there's days where I think you think you have it all figured out and you don't.

And then there are days where I think, thank God, young people are using their voice.

Absolutely.

And so how do you balance making sure that you are hearing the concerns of students who are raising their voices?

Yeah, while understanding that, you know, they're evolving as people to.

Yeah.

And and this is when you should be trying things out and taking risks.

And that's true musically.

It's true.

And how we're, you know, thinking critically about things, how we're challenging, you know, leadership, whether it's at school or beyond.

So that's healthy.

It's part of a healthy culture.

And the more we can engage with students, about their concerns, the better environment.

We'll have Schumann or Schubert to close.

Schumann?

Yes, because you can take both look and see.

Hey, you can take Robert learn.

Yeah.

There's about oh, well, I like both, but yeah, I want to thank you for making the time and I want to say, I know that the work must be very busy.

I hope you make it a somewhat routine, effort to pop in here.

The door will always be open.

Yes.

And it's a great place for the community to hear you at length.

Kate Sheeran is the dean of the Eastman School of Music at the University of Rochester.

Although I have much more qualified colleagues down the hall in classical 91 five who also are phenomenal interviewers and people.

And you've just you've given your time to me, which is gracious to me.

My pleasure.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you very much.

That's Dean Kate chair in the Joan and Martin Messinger Dean of the Eastman School of Music at the University of Rochester, just the eighth dean in 100 years from all of us at connections.

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