This is a KSPS PBS Vote 2026 Special featuring candidates running for election to the Washington state legislature from District 4.

- Hello, and thank you for joining us for this second debate of the evening.

I'm Dana Haynes.

We are pleased to feature the candidates running for state representative in Washington's fourth legislative district.

The district represents voters in the Spokane Valley and much of Northeast Spokane County.

A coin flip determined that Democrat Rob Tupper will go first.

And Mr.

Tupper, you have 30 seconds to introduce yourself.

- Hello, and good evening.

I'm Robert Tupper, Rob Tupper in this race.

And I've got a history that goes back to Alaska.

I commercial fished up there for about 10 years.

Moved here in 1996 working for Kaiser Aluminum because I transitioned from commercial fishing to working the oil patch, to doing some technology stuff in the petrochemical industry.

Came to work for Kaiser, been here ever since.

And I am just grateful to be able to stand here today and offer you myself.

- All right, thank you.

And the incumbent in this race is Republican Rob Chase.

Tell us a little bit more about yourself.

And you've got 30 seconds as well, Mr.

Chase.

- My name is Rob Chase and I live in Spokane Valley.

This is my 11th race, so I've been around for a while.

Before I ever ran for anything, I was an activist too for a long time.

My signs, you'll see up my signs, is my motto, truth matters.

And I think truth is so important.

Plus if I'm wrong, I'm honestly wrong.

But I represent you and you in turn pay me, but you also give me feedback.

So of all the bills I've passed in the legislature, all of them have come from constituents, the ideas.

- All right, thank you so much.

Welcome to you both.

The candidates will answer questions from two Spokane journalists, Lisa Leinberger from Spokane Public Radio and Amanda Sullender from The Spokesman-Review.

Thanks to both of you for being here today.

Well, before we begin, here's a quick look at the debate rules.

The panel can ask the same question to both candidates or can direct the question to just one.

The panelists may request a follow-up to an answer.

Candidates will have one minute for answers and are allowed two rebuttals for the entire debate.

Rebuttal length of time is 30 seconds.

Let's go ahead and get started.

And the first question is coming from Amanda tonight.

- Mr.

Tupper, in this "Battle of the Robs," the Democratic Rob might be facing an uphill climb in this historically Republican district.

What makes you different from the West Side Democrats who control state government in Washington?

- Great question.

I live here on the East Side, so I know a lot of things about the East Side that the West may not know.

If you look at my campaign website, it says Rational Rob.

I'm a mathematician.

I've graduated with a degree in mathematics, taking courses in, for electives gets you, mechanical engineering, electrical engineering and another engineering.

Oh, chemical engineering.

So I know a lot about processes.

My last 10 years was working as a robotics engineer.

I traveled around the world.

I've seen a lot of good things happening across the entire planet.

And I think that my perspective that I can bring from my rural roots of Alaska, to knowing what goes on here rurally in Eastern Washington, I think I'm gonna be able to be a rational voice to enter that room where the decisions are being discussed initially inside of the Democratic caucus.

- How would that look in terms of policies?

Where do you differ policy-wise from the Democratic Party in Washington?

- I can give you one specific example, and that would be the natural gas and propane rules that were put out on all residents of Washington state saying that we're gonna only use electric heat for heating and cooling.

And if you live in rural, any rural community, and you have to use an electric heat and your power goes out for four days, that's not an inconvenience.

That's a safety issue.

And I would disagree with that policy that was passed, largely for some people that were living on the West Side, where losing your power for five hours or so, it's inconvenient.

But here in the East Side, especially in the rural areas, it could become a safety issue.

- [Amanda] Thank you, Mr.

Tupper.

- Lisa, you have the next question.

- Yes, Representative Chase, you are the incumbent.

What do you consider your greatest accomplishment in the last two years?

- In the last two years, I did get four bills passed and they were common cause bills and they all passed either unanimously or pretty close to it too.

So I think those are the best bills to get behind because if it's common cause and they're going to pass unanimously, you're probably on the right track.

is reaching across the aisle something that you're interested in doing in this next?

- Oh yeah, and I do it all the time.

I think there's a veneer of friendliness in the legislature, unlike the county where I used to work.

We were sort of hammer and tongs.

But for instance, if I were say I were to disagree with Natasha Hill, I would say I rise on this occasion to disagree with a gentle lady from the third district.

And so I do enjoy that and I like other ideas and I have learned some things in my life, especially there are such a thing as public solutions sometimes.

So we talk and we see each other at the different things we go to.

And I really like all three of my democratic chairs.

You know, they've been pretty good to me, I think, and have let me, even given me hearings on my bills too.

So, actually I will say the legislature is the funnest job I ever had in my life because you get to talk to all these experts, you know, in their different fields.

And if you don't get a chance to question them, you can meet them out in the hallway and ask your questions too.

So it's very fulfilling for me.

- Amanda, next question.

- What kinds of housing developments are needed in Spokane Valley?

Does the valley need more single or multifamily homes and what can the state do to help with the housing crisis that we find ourselves in?

- Well, I think it should be whatever the market decides you need, a single or multifamily housing or some people just like to rent too.

They're renters because, you know, people end up, I think the average time to sell your house is like seven years.

So people are always looking for the grass is greener on the other side.

But I do believe in free market solutions for that.

And of course, it is tough.

I really feel bad for a lot of younger people because there's not a lot of housing, you know, especially with their children.

So these apartment complexes have a lot of young kids in them that, I mean, it would be nice if they had their own backyard or they could have a dog to play with and maybe a garden to grow.

And so there's that too.

But it's so out of price now for younger people trying to get into a home.

And it was a long time before I, even on better times, before I got into a home myself too.

So I just think free market solutions are always best, whatever the consumer wants.

- But as prices of housing has gone up, do you think that there's any role for the state at all or is it just free market solutions?

- I think the state needs to cut back taxes.

We have way too many taxes now, you know.

We've all heard of the state of Texas.

We're the state of taxes now.

We've got every, with the income tax, if that goes through, we got pretty much every kind of tax there.

In fact, when I was a kid, they used to joke, "Someday they'll tax the air that we breathe," and I think that's a carbon tax, you know, but that's become.

We've got a sales tax and B&O tax, property tax, and capital gains tax, luxury tax.

It's just ridiculous.

So I think we need to, as much as we can, cut back taxes.

And the only way we can kind of do that is on these bills is to keep throwing amendments on to run out of time so they can't get these bills passed.

- Thank you, Representative Chase.

Mr.

Tupper, same question to you.

How would you handle the housing crisis in Washington?

- We are lacking affordable housing.

That's clear.

Within the city of Spokane itself, there's an occupancy or an unoccupancy rate that's approaching 8%, and those rental units are priced, the brand new ones are priced above what a normal person can earn if they're just beginning out, beginning in their lives.

I myself own a few rentals.

I used to have quite a few.

I'm down to six rentals, but I do my best to keep my costs low.

And by doing that, I'm renovating older homes that I pick up at a distressed state.

When that older home gets torn down and replaced by something that's unaffordable, I don't think that's a good, I don't think that's a good plan for the city, for the city of Spokane Valley or the state.

The state needs to incentivize those older homes that may be not as nice, but can be renovated.

- [Amanda] All right, thank you.

- Lisa.

- Mr.

Chase, a company has applied to build a data center in the West Plains, and this has triggered pauses, moratoriums, and controversy, at both the city level and at the county level.

What is the Washington State Legislature's role in regulating data centers?

- Oh, it all happened so fast, I couldn't even spell AI two years ago.

And then I guess every three months, the amount of data out there, knowledge out there doubles, you know?

So I'm a Republican because I'm a conservative Republican, because I'm cautious, you know?

But we do have to, you know, start looking what guardrails do we need to put around this because we cite all these science fiction dystopic movies about what's happening now.

So we have to be very careful.

Some people are not having any data centers too.

I went to a conference in Edmonton, and also Salt Lake, where that was a topic was data centers, and water, and energy and there are people that think, "Well, what we should do, we gotta start putting guardrails around this.

Is it a public solution?

Should government control it?

Or maybe just have a free market open source thing, let people compete with each other too."

So I'm still in the learning phase on what needs to be done, but I have been reading a lot about it.

- [Lisa] Mr.

Tupper, same question for you.

- Data centers are very hot topic, and to place a data center where the proposed location is over in the medical lake area is putting them on top of an aquifer that is not replenished like the one that we enjoy inside of the Spokane Valley.

Even still, we have a much better location for data centers.

There's a bunch of them already along the Columbia River where there is power and adequate water.

The proposal to put a data center that draws 500 kilowatts of power per hour is, I think it's an obscene waste of resources.

We don't know what 10 years down the road those data centers are gonna be worth.

And at this point in time, if there's going to be a data center, it should be located where there's power and water adequate to take care of it.

I'd rather not see anything like that happen here.

We're a great location.

We have many things to offer.

Data centers is not something that we need to be kowtowing to or trying to bring in.

- Amanda, next question goes to you.

- Following up on data centers, but looking at the issue more broadly, when it comes to artificial intelligence, what regulations, if any, should the state adopt to curb any issues that might happen with the use of this technology?

Mr.

Tupper, starting with you.

- What should the state do?

- [Amanda] Yeah.

What should the state do regarding AI technology?

- I'd like to just narrow it down just a little bit to education.

- [Amanda] Sure.

- I was teaching at Mead High School when cell phones became very popular and the instruction to teachers at that time is that we're gonna let those students bring those cell phones right into the classroom.

All of us teachers were like, "What?

are you crazy?"

And the upshot is, I believe Mead School District has now banned cell phones in the classroom because we knew, as teachers, there was a distraction there that wasn't going to accommodate teaching.

I look at data centers and the use of AI in the school as a way to cripple the young mind from being able to use that mind like a muscle.

"Mr.

Tupper, why do I have to learn the quadratic equation?

I'll never use it in real life."

I said, "You're right.

You never will, but I'm exercising your brain just like you exercise your muscles when you go to PE class."

So in a very narrow sense, I would like to see AI used much less in the schools.

- Mr.

Chase?

- I think we can't let any energy uses interfere with what our normal uses are for residents, you know, that they should come first before data centers.

But also I've been looking at these walkaway reactors, these small modular reactors that show some promise perhaps five to 10 years down the road, and that should take a lot of the the pressure off, if indeed that does work.

I think it will too.

And then other people talking about, you know, there's gonna be so much information out there, these machines, these data centers might even become sentient, you know?

So maybe we need a kill switch that will prevent any harm from happening.

I went to a forum at Gonzaga University there, and regarding education, there is a teacher at Gonzaga, Anny Case, and she said a good idea might be to hold, we might need to turn education all around, one third to be local PTA and school board, one third to be the state, one third to be self-directed education with the teachers having the knowledge of AI to walk their students through it.

- All Right.

- Mr.

Tupper, did you have a rebuttal?

- [Dana] Did you have a rebuttal?

- Well, I wanted to add a comment.

As far as the kill switch that you mentioned, Ukraine just put three missiles inside of three different data centers in Russia, and it actually was a kill switch that blocked a great deal of bot traffic that was targeted here to the United States.

And for that, that is a clear example of data centers becoming more powerful than they need to be for sure.

And that's a reason for regulating and coming up with some serious regulations on data centers.

- [Dana] All right, thank you.

Lisa, you have the next question.

- Yes, Representative Chase, voters will decide whether or not to keep the millionaire's tax next month with I-645.

What is your stance on that initiative?

- I voted against it.

In fact, that session where we were voting on set a record, it was 24 and a half hours that we were on the floor debating that.

And I just think, like I said before, we got too many taxes and, you know, here's another one.

And the problem with the millionaire tax it's gonna get, even representatives, the Democrat representatives, Springer and Ryu said, "Yeah, it will find its way down to the average person.

It's just another tax."

So with the backdrop of taxes, you got the federal taxes too, the unseen inflation tax.

That's partly why people can't afford homes or college, or a lot of things that we used to take for granted.

So I do think doing that is gonna drive businesses out of the state.

Those are the geese that lay the golden eggs.

I remember seeing on "60 Minutes" an interview once, they were interviewing a man in Washington DC.

He's a sweet street sweeper, I think.

And he said, "I've never been hired by a poor man yet."

So we do need those people as part of our society.

- Mr.

Tupper, same question.

- The city, well, New York City has made the same thing about if we raise taxes, the millionaires are all gonna leave.

And I remember watching some montage of maybe on John Stewart where that went back to the early '80s, '90s, and it was just the same repeated, "If taxes go up, all the millionaires are gonna leave."

And it didn't seem to happen there.

The millionaires tax.

If I make $80,000 per month, I won't pay a penny on that millionaires, on that income.

It would sure be nice to be in that problem where I was making more than that money.

If we want nice things, we are going to be paying taxes.

And what do you want to give up?

Roads, schools, fire departments, buses, public transportation.

These are all things that are valuable to those who don't have the means to buy that affordable house.

They're using those services provided by the state and the state is able to provide those services through taxes.

- [Dana] All right, Amanda.

- Another referendum voters will weigh in on this fall, it concerns transgender participation in school sports and bathroom access in schools.

Does the state have it right now?

How can you protect the rights of all students while these issues are debated?

Representative Chase.

- Well, I don't think boys should be in girls' sports.

You know, it's just not fair.

You know, boys should be playing with boys, girls should be playing with girls.

I just don't think those, it's a family value things.

And being conservative, I'm very much into family values, but the world is changing so much, but that's not going in the right direction.

A lot of these ladies, you know, young ladies, they practice, they get up at three, four in the morning, go skating, or gymnastics, or wrestling, and they practice and practice, but then they don't get the blue ribbon anymore because men are, you know, stronger than women.

So I just don't think we ought to mix the sexes.

I'm all for girls and girls sports, Title IX and all that to start, it start out as a good thing, and boys and their things and we should, it just doesn't need to happen, I think.

- Thank you.

Mr.

Tupper, do people have it right now in the state?

- I'm voting no on the initiative.

The initiative is an overreach.

We're talking about maybe a dozen students.

There are rules within individual school districts.

School districts are able to make their individual rules.

They're able to accommodate these students.

We're talking about doing something statewide to not accommodate a few students, but to denigrate these students.

And I find that a travesty.

It's tough enough growing up in this world and if, and having known a couple of folks that have transitioned, I know the troubles and the trials that they face emotionally, and to denigrate them and to call them evil is just reprehensible.

- To follow up, do you think there's anything else the state should be doing to protect transgender people and youth?

- There was a point in time in our history where a Black person wasn't considered a US citizen and couldn't even become a US citizen.

There was a point in time when if you were gay, it was a prison sentence if you were convicted.

We evolved over many centuries, decades and centuries to the place where we are today.

I am unwilling to say that a transgender person is not part of that continuing spectrum of understanding of humanity.

And what could the state do to protect transgender individuals?

I don't know what more they could do because I'm not in the legislature.

I haven't actually dug into what more protections there could be, but I do know shield, taking away that shield that they have right now through a statewide initiative is not something I would support.

- [Amanda] Thank you.

Lisa, next question for you.

- Mr.

Tupper, we've been hearing for the last couple of years that there is a budget short fell, shortfall at the state level.

What is your plan to address this?

- Well, the millionaires tax came on board before I got to the legislature.

I haven't been to the legislature yet.

I am unsure of what can be done specifically, but I do know that we have a healthcare crisis and we have a large pool of money that goes into services that may need some adjustment where we can find cost savings in healthcare services.

A single payer health plan would be ideal because it would simplify the process that hospitals and providers would have to go through.

They could cut down on their overhead expenses in that way and it would give the dollars that are allocated now to administration and corporate earnings to the individuals that need the healthcare.

- Mr.

Chase, same question.

- Could you repeat the question?

- Yeah, we've been hearing the last several years about, a couple of years about the budget shortfall at the state level.

What is your plan to address this?

- Well, I think we have a spending problem.

We don't, you know, you shouldn't, you know, like the average person out there, we shouldn't spend any more than we have coming in or you get into trouble that way.

Seems like the budget doubles about every 10 years and that's higher than the cost of inflation.

So, and I also think there are some things they could cut back on.

I think the Climate Commitment Act is worthless.

You know, we're really not doing a lot of good with that, but yet we spend money on that and we should, and we should be, you know, putting that into, I forget what the term is called, especially education.

It's PSOC or HSOC.

I know DENS and SOC, that thing.

And you know, East Valley School District, they just had a, lost their bond issue.

Well, they're way overdue to have a new school built.

And so spend, we don't, you know, it's a spending problem.

You know, the road to hell's paved with good intentions.

They all have their reasons for doing this, but you have to be fiscal and frugal too.

It's a people's money, not your money.

- Mr.

Tupper, do you have a rebuttal?

- Representative Chase, you've mentioned the Climate Commitment Act, and I'm unsure of where those funds are allocated currently, but I know of one place where they need to be allocated.

Now, I've already said I don't want to see rural Washingtonians have to have heat pump, have to have electric heaters and everything in their house, but a heat pump is a great solution for an older home.

And that would be an allocation where I would redirect funds so that the savings that an individual would experience at their own home could be returned right back to the economy.

So I think the Climate Commitment Act would be a good use of those funds.

- Mr.

Chase, would you like to use one of your rebuttals?

- Well, I think the Climate Commitment Act, and I always, two points.

I always ask people, even legislators, how much CO2 is there in the atmosphere?

And they don't know.

I think it's 406 parts per million.

Of that, 3% is manmade.

So if you were to take the atmosphere and say it's 60 miles thick, I think mathematically, it's only the last 12 feet that's actually man-made CO2, and we need CO2 to live.

The second part of that is I took the square footage of Washington State compared to planet Earth and it's 17 ten thousandths of 1%.

- Thank you so much, Mr.

Chase.

This is our final question.

We are going to limit both responses to 30 seconds for time purposes.

Amanda, this question comes from you.

- Representative Chase, in all likelihood, Republicans will remain in the minority.

How will you address work along party lines?

You said you passed several bills in the past two years.

What are the bills that you want to pass in the next two years?

- Well, I've got one I want to introduce on country of origin labeling for beef products and making it mandatory.

People need to know where this comes from.

I have a friend who's a cattleman.

You said in your typical hamburger, there's maybe it's a hundred or a thousand different DNA types within that too.

So where does this all come from?

And then another one would be allowing farm workers to work 60 hours a week without having to get into the overtime thing.

That way they can get their money.

They're willing to work and it won't-- - [Dana] Thank you Mr.

Chase.

- Bankrupt the ranchers that are paying.

- [Dana] Thank you.

- Mr.

Tupper, what is the first bill that you would introduce if you were elected?

- I think as a junior legislature, that's a big stretch to ask what I would be introducing.

I do want to focus on healthcare.

I do want to look for the savings there.

I don't know if anyone is listening that is familiar with Whole Washington or Healthcare for All Washington, but those are two nonprofits or entities that are looking to help in that endeavor.

And I would throw my full support behind anything I could do to help those two people, those two organizations move forward.

- Thank you, Mr.

Tupper.

It is time now for closing statements, and we are going to begin with Mr.

Tupper.

- It has been three and a half decades since a Democrat from the fourth legislative district has made it to Olympia.

I want to be able to go over to Olympia, bring common sense from the East Side.

I know we have a couple of representatives from Spokane proper, but I want to be able to represent Eastern Washington and the needs that we have in our rural areas of the state.

I think I could do a good job.

I have a level head.

I don't get terribly emotional about anything.

And I expect to be able to do good things.

I've listened to another candidate, another Republican candidate go on and say how it's going to be easy to get to Olympia, but once he gets there, it's gonna be hard work because he's going to be on the other side of the fence, the divide between the parties.

And I will be embraced by the Republican, I'm sorry, I'll be embraced by the Democratic Party just because of my affiliation and will be doing good things there.

- All right, Mr.

Chase, you also have one minute for your closing statement.

- Well, like I said, this is the funnest job I've had in my life and I really enjoy working with other people.

And I'm on the education committee and the Spokane, or the state tribal and Government Committees and also the finance committees.

And I would like to, if I could, get on an energy committee too.

I'm also on a few subcommittees too, which is, but one of the students that came and testified before us at the education committee said, "Learning begins by asking questions."

And I though, well, that's really smart.

It does when you think about it.

So I'd love to ask questions and try to find out what actually is true, what adds value.

And you have all these lobbyists coming to see you, you have to take it with a grain of salt.

Is this adding value or is it adding waste, you know?

So you want to represent the people as if it's our own pocketbook.

And I've always tried to be frugal and make sure that money I spent was, I need to do the same for my people that I represent.

- Thank you.

That will do it for this debate for Washington's fourth legislative district.

Our thanks to the candidates, Rob Chase and Rob Tupper, as well as our journalists, Lisa Leinberger and Amanda Sullender.

Thank you so much.

This and other KSPS debates are available for viewing anytime at ksps.org, on the PBS app, and on the KSPS PBS YouTube channel.

For all of us here at KSPS PBS, thank you for watching.