>> "ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.

>> ERIC: THE DEREK CHAUVIN VERDICT DOMINATED THE WEEK'S NEWS HERE AND ELSEWHERE.

WE'LL PREVIEW THE SENTENCING PHASE OF THE TRIAL.

ALSO THIS WEEK, WE'LL EXPLORE THE LASTING LEGACY OF WALTER MONDALE.

AND MARY LAHAMMER WILL LOOK AT THE PROSPECTS OF POLICE REFORM AS THE CLOCK TICKS DOWN AT THE STATE CAPITOL.

>> Mary: ANOTHER FUNERAL AND THE VERDICT ALL CONTINUE TO PUT PRESSURE ON LAWMAKERS AT THE CAPITOL TO PASS ADDITIONAL POLICE REFORM.

>> WE HAVE TO ACT NOW.

BECAUSE IF WE DON'T ACT, WE'RE SAYING WE'RE OKAY WITH THE STATUS QUO.

>> Mary: THAT'S COMING UP ON "ALMANAC."

♪♪ >> "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY... GREAT RIVER ENERGY: PROVIDING ELECTRICITY AND RELATED SERVICES TO 28 CO-OPS IN MINNESOTA.

A TOUCHSTONE ENERGY COOPERATIVE.

DELTA DENTAL OF MINNESOTA FOUNDATION: MAKING DENTAL CARE POSSIBLE FOR MINNESOTANS IN NEED.

DELTADENTALMN.ORG/TPT.

THE SHAKOPEE MDEWAKANTON SIOUX COMMUNITY: A TRIBAL NATION FOCUSED ON COMMUNITY AND COLLABORATION, ESPECIALLY IN TIMES LIKE TODAY.

ENBRIDGE: CONNECTING MINNESOTANS WITH ENERGY FOR OVER 70 YEARS.

MORE AT ENBRIDGE.COM/LINETHREEUS.

AND EDUCATION MINNESOTA: THE VOICE FOR PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

MORE AT EDUCATIONMINNESOTA.ORG.

>> ERIC: THE WEEK, OF COURSE, WAS DOMINATED BY THE VERDICT IN THE TRIAL FOR THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD AND BY THE MEMORIAL SERVICE THURSDAY FOR DAUNTE WRIGHT.

WE'LL COVER THOSE STORIES TONIGHT, ALONG WITH A LOOK BACK AT THE REMARKABLE CAREER OF THE LATE WALTER MONDALE.

>> Cathy: WE WILL INDEED.

WE START, THOUGH, WITH THE VERDICT TUESDAY FINDING FORMER MINNEAPOLIS POLICE OFFICER DEREK CHAUVIN GUILTY ON THREE COUNTS OF MURDER AND MANSLAUGHTER.

HUNDREDS EAGERLY AWAITED THE VERDICT OUTSIDE THE HENNEPIN COUNTY GOVERNMENT CENTER.

>> WE THE JURY IN THE ABOVE UP TITLED MATTER AS TO COUNT ONE, UNINTENTIONAL SECOND-DEGREE MURDER WHILE COMMITTING A FELONY FIND THE DEFENDANT GUY.

THIRD-DEGREE MURDER, PERPETRATING AN EMINENTLY DANGEROUS ACT, GUILTY.

AS TO COUNT THREE, SECOND-DEGREE MANSLAUGHTER, CULPABLE NEGLIGENCE, CREATING AN UNREASONABLE RISK, FIND THE DEFENDANT GUILTY.

[ Cheers and applause ] >> ALL THREE COUNTS!

>> ALL THREE COUNTS!

>> >> >> CATHY: DEREK CHAUVIN WAS IMMEDIATELY TAKEN INTO CUSTODY AND IS NOW IN A PRISON CELL AT OAK PARK HEIGHTS.

SENTENCING IS STILL WEEKS AWAY.

HERE TO TALK ABOUT HOW THE SENTENCING PROCESS WILL PLAY OUT, RETIRED HENNEPIN COUNTY JUDGE LAJUNE LANGE.

SHE ALSO TEACHES AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ST. THOMAS LAW SCHOOL.

SO GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

>> GOOD EVENING.

>> Cathy: GOOD EVENING.

I UNDERSTAND, SENTENCING IS A LITTLE DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND HERE IN TERMS OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

THERE'S A 40-YEAR MAXIMUM FOR THIS PARTICULAR CRIME.

WHAT FACTORS JUDGE IS GOING TO DEPARTING EITHER UPWARD OR DOWNWARD?

>> WELL, FIRST THE LAW REQUIRES THAT A PRESENTENCE INVESTIGATION BE CONDUCTED IN A FELONY OF THIS TYPE.

SO JUDGE CAHILL HAS ALREADY ORDERED A PRESENTENCE INVESTIGATION, AND THE FACTORS THAT THE PROBATION DEPARTMENT WILL BE PROVIDING TO THE COURT ARE THE PERSONAL HISTORY OF CHAUVIN, HIS WORK HISTORY, HIS POLICE HISTORY, HIS MILITARY HISTORY, HIS SOCIAL HISTORY, MEMBERSHIPS IN ANY GROUPS OR ORGANIZATIONS, WE HAD THE SITUATION IN RAMSEY COUNTY WHERE ALL THE BLACKLOCK EMPLOYEES WERE REMOVED FROM THE JAIL CELL AREA, SO THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS ABOUT OFFICER CHAUVIN THAT WE DON'T KNOW, THAT THE COURT WILL NEED TO OBTAIN TO FORM A COMPLETE PICTURE OF THE MAN.

>> Eric: YOUR HONOR, WHAT IS AN EXAMPLE OF SOME OF THE FACTORS THAT MIGHT BE INVOLVED, SHOULD JUDGE CAHILL WANT TO DEPART UPWARDS?

IN OTHER WORDS, INCREASE THE SENTENCE?

>> WELL, THERE IS GROUNDS FOR UPWARD DEPARTURE THAT'S ENUMERATED IN THE SENTENCING GUIDELINES, AND ONE OF THESE IS PARTICULAR CRUELTY.

AND SO THE WHOLE ASPECT OF SUFFERING, OF SCARS ON MR. FLOYD'S BODY, ON HIS FACE.

THE THROAT, VOICE CHANGES AS WE FOUGHT TO BREATHE WHILE HE WAS BEING ASPHYXIATED.

THOSE KIND OF THINGS WILL PLAY INTO THE UPWARD DEPARTURE CONSIDERATION AS WELL AS THE PRESENCE OF CHILDREN.

AND OTHER FACTORS THAT ARE PER PERMISSIBLE.

>> Cathy: CURIOUS, YOUR HONOR, ABOUT MR. CHAUVIN TALKING TO THE PROBATION OFFICER WHO WILL DO THIS INVESTIGATION.

WILL HE BE INTERVIEWED BY THIS INDIVIDUAL, AND THEN WHAT ABOUT, AS HE APPEARS BEFORE JUDGE CAHILL, IF HE SHOWS REMORSE, IF HE EXPLAINS WHAT HE WAS THINKING, WILL THAT HELP HIS CASE?

>> WELL, THE FIRST DEFENSE ATTORNEY MENTIONED DURING THE TRIAL THAT THERE IS A FEDERAL INVESTIGATION GOING ON CONCURRENTLY.

SO WE COULD END UP WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF MR. CHAUVIN NOT COOPERATING WITH THE PRESENTENCE INVESTIGATION, AND NOT SPEAKING IN COURT.

AND THAT'S WHY THE PROBATION OFFICER WILL HAVE TO HAVE ACCESS TO CONFIDENTIAL RECORDS, ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY RECORDS, AND EVERYTHING THAT WILL GIVE THE JUDGE A CLEARER PICTURE OF WHAT THIS PERSON'S LIFE HAS BEEN LIKE.

>> Eric: SO IT'S A 40-YEAR MAXIMUM, IT WOULD BE THE MOST IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, ABSENT AN UPWARD DEPARTURE, BUT FORMER OFFICER CHAUVIN DOESN'T HAVE A CRIMINAL RECORD, SO HE'S LOOKING AT WHAT, 12, 13, 14 YEARS ON THE GRID ANYWAY?

>> THAT'S PART OF WHAT THE INVESTIGATION IS GOING TO CONFIRM, OF WHETHER OR NOT HE DOES.

SO THAT PART WILL BE INCORPORATED, AND THERE IS A GRID ON THE GUIDELINES, THAT IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A CRIMINAL RECORD, THEN YOUR EXPOSURE UNDER THE GUIDELINES IS SO MANY YEARS.

AND WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO THE JUDGE IS, IF HE IS RELEASED WITH EVEN JUST A THIRD OFF HIS SENTENCE FOR GOOD BEHAVIOR, HOW WILL THE COMMUNITY BE PROTECTED?

SO IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE A COMPLETE PICTURE OF THE INDIVIDUAL.

>> Cathy: I'M WONDERING HERE, JUDGE LANGE, ABOUT POSSIBILITY FOR APPEAL.

WHAT GROUNDS COULD THE DEFENSE APPEAL?

>> THE MOTION FOR A NEW TRIAL ACTUALLY COMES BEFORE SENTENCING.

SO THE DEFENSE ATTORNEY HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO FILE A MOTION FOR A NEW TRIAL.

ANY TIME.

AND THE JUDGE MUST GIVE THAT A HEARING, AND IT WILL ACTUALLY OCCUR BEFORE THE SENTENCING DATE.

>> Eric: IN YOUR CASE, AND IN JUDGE CAHILL'S CASE, HOW MUCH WAS IN EITHER THE BACK OR THE FRONT OF YOUR MIND ABOUT DOING THINGS THAT WOULD NOT INVITE AN APPEAL?

>> I THINK JUDGE CAHILL HAS BEEN VERY CAREFUL TO MAKE A COMPLETE RECORD.

TO DOCUMENT AND RULE AND IN SOME OF HIS RULINGS, HE HAS ALLOWED THE COURT OF APPEALS TO MAKE A DECISION, RATHER THAN GO BEYOND WHAT HE FELT THE LAW WAS.

SO I THINK HE'S BEEN VERY, VERY CAREFUL TO RUN A SOLID TRIAL IN THIS CASE.

>> Cathy: I AM VERY CURIOUS AS TO WHAT YOU THINK OF THE USE OF CAMERAS IN THE COURTROOM.

I'M BETTING YOU'VE PROBABLY NOT HAD A CAMERA IN YOUR COURTROOM.

SO WHAT'D YOU MAKE OF THIS EXPERIMENT, THIS HISTORIC FIRST IN MINNESOTA?

>> I SUPPORTED IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE THE USE OF CAMERAS IN THE COURTROOM.

AND WE HAD A BALANCE OF POWER IN TERMS OF THE DEFENSE AND THE PROSECUTION.

WE HAD THE 10,000 MEMBER PEACE AND POLICE OFFICERS ASSOCIATION FUNDING OFFICER CHAUVIN'S DEFENSE.

SO EVERY POSSIBLE EXPERT, ANY KIND OF RESOURCE WAS AVAILABLE.

AND WE DO NOT HAVE THAT IN THE CASE OF MOST LITIGANTS WHO COME IN THE CRIMINAL COURT.

REPRESENTED BY THE PUBLIC DEFENDER, WHO IS UNDERFUNDED, LACKS THE TOTAL AUTONOMY TO TAKE ON EXPERTS AND ALL THE OTHER THINGS THAT ARE NECESSARY.

AND SO WE NEED -- HOPEFULLY THIS TRIAL WILL EMPHASIZE THE IMPORTANCE OF JUSTICE NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE.

AND NO MATTER WHO IS PAYING FOR YOUR DEFENSE, AND THAT WE WILL GIVE MORE FUNDING TO PUBLIC DEFENSE, SO THAT WE WOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO CONSIDER OPENING CASES TO THE PUBLIC IN THE FUTURE.

>> Cathy: JUDGE LAJUNE LANGE, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Eric: THANK YOU, MA'AM.

>> MY PLEASURE.

>> CATHY: AS MINNESOTA REACTED TO THE CHAUVIN VERDICT AND GRIEVED AT THE MEMORIAL SERVICE FOR DAUNTE WRIGHT, LAWMAKERS WORKED LATE IN ST. PAUL, STRUGGLING TO COME UP WITH POLICE REFORM MEASURES ACCEPTABLE TO BOTH DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS.

MARY LAHAMMER HAS THE STORY.

>> MY SON HAD A SMILE THAT WAS WORTH A MILLION DOLLARS.

WHEN HE WALKED IN THE ROOM, HE LIT UP THE ROOM.

>> ON BEHALF OF THE ENTIRE STATE AND OUR POPULATION, WE EXTEND OUR DEEPEST CONDOLENCES TO THE WRIGHT FAMILY.

>> Mary: AS ANOTHER BLACKLOCK LIFE LOST IS MOURNED IN MINNESOTA -- >> WE COME TO MINNESOTA AS AIR FRESHENERS, WE'RE TRYING TO GET THE STENCH OF RACISM OUT OF THE ATMOSPHERE.

>> Mary: LAWMAKERS AT THE STATE CAPITOL ARE TAKING ACTION.

>> WE HAVE TO ACT NOW.

BECAUSE IF WE DON'T ACT, WE'RE SAYING WE'RE OKAY WITH THE STATUSO.

AND THE STATUS QUO SAYS LIVES DON'T MATTER.

>> AS LAWMAKERS WE HAVE TO MAKE UP FOR THE WRONGS OF YESTERDAY.

AS LAWMAKERS, IT IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO TAKE US INTO THE FUTURE.

>> Mary: THE QUESTION IS IF THE SENATE WILL SIMPLY HEAR OR ACTUALLY ACT ON ADDITIONAL LEGISLATION.

FOR MORE POLICE REFORM AND ACCOUNTABILITY.

>> IN JULY WE PASSED THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY BILL THAT I CAN REMEMBER.

AND NOW WE'RE SAYING WE'RE GOING TO DO HEARINGS.

I'M WILLING TO LISTEN AND WE'LL SEE WHERE IT ENDS IN THE NEXT THREE OR FOUR WEEKS.

[ Cheers and applause ] >> Mary: THE REACTION TO THE FIRST WHITE POLICE OFFICER FOUND GUILTY FOR KILLING A BLACKLOCK MAN IN MINNESOTA REVERB RATED SEEMINGLY EVERYWHERE.

>> AMEN.

>> AMEN.

>> I WOULD NOT CALL TODAY'S VERDICT JUSTICE, HOWEVER.

BECAUSE JUSTICE IMPLIES TRUE RESTORATION.

BUT IT IS ACCOUNTABILITY.

>> I'M GOING TO MISS HIM.

BUT NOW I KNOW HE'S IN HISTORY.

WHAT A DAY TO BE A FLOYD, MAN.

>> Mary: GEORGE FLOYD'S KILLING TRIGGERED PROTESTS AROUND THE GLOBE AND LAW CHANGES IN MINNESOTA.

>> TRIAL'S OVER, BUT HERE IN MINNESOTA, I WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR.

WE KNOW OUR WORK JUST BEGINS.

THIS IS THE FLOOR, NOT THE CEILING OF WHERE WE NEED TO GET TO.

>> Mary: THE WORK AHEAD INCLUDES MORE POLICE REFORMS AND ADDRESSING RACIAL GAPS IN EDUCATION, HOUSING, HEALTHCARE AND MORE.

THE GOVERNOR SAYS HE WILL USE HIS POLITICAL CAPITAL TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.

>> MINNESOTA'S AN EXCEPTIONAL PLACE WITH EXCEPTIONAL PEOPLE.

WE'RE MANY TIMES LIFTED UP AS A MODEL OF WELL-BEING.

BUT WE HAVE TO ENSURE THAT'S TRUE OF EVERYONE.

MEASURES OF WELLNESS, HAPPINESS, ECONOMIC SECURITY, THOSE STATISTICS ARE TRUE ON WELL-BEING, IF YOU'RE WHITE.

BUT NOT ONLY NOT TRUE IF YOU'RE BLACKLOCK, IT'S EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE.

>> Mary: BASED ON THE GOVERNOR'S REQUEST, THE SENATE QUICKLY PASSED NEARLY $10 MILLION TO FUND THE PUBLIC SAFETY RESPONSE TO PROTESTS ONGOING AND POSSIBLY AHEAD.

>> WE HAVE TO COME TOGETHER, AND PART OF THAT, FRANKLY IS SUPPORTING THE POLICE AND THE NATIONAL GUARD AND THE WORK THEY'RE DOING TO KEEP OUR STREETS SAFE.

>> Mary: DEMOCRATS, PARTICULARLY IN THE PEOPLE OF COLOR AND INDIGENOUS CAUCUS ARE DEMANDING THEY BE INCLUDED IN DECISIONS.

>> WE HAVE A LOT OF MILITARY PRESENCE IN THE STREETS AND PEOPLE ARE TRAUMATIZED, AND THEY WANT TO KNOW, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH MONEY?

I HAVE TO SHOW YOU HOW MANY EMAILS I HAVE HAVE CONSTITUENTS OF MINE ASKING, WHO'S PAYING FOR ALL OF THIS?

WHAT'S THE COST OF THIS?

>> NATIONAL GUARD WERE LITERALLY SHOT UPON.

AND THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE.

>> Mary: THE SENATE ALSO PASSED A RESOLUTION TO SUPPORT THE NATIONAL GUARD.

>> I DON'T THINK THIS RESOLUTION IS ABOUT SUPPORTING LAW ENFORCEMENT OR OUR ARMED SERVICE MEMBERS.

IT'S REALLY ABOUT MAKING A WEDGE ISSUE AND DIVIDING OUR COUNTRY FURTHER AND OUR STATE.

I CONTINUE TO BELIEVE THAT THE SENATE G.O.P.

MAJORITY IS TONE-DEAF AT THE MOMENT THAT WE'RE LIVING IN TODAY.

IN MINNESOTA.

>> THIS RESOLUTION IS NOT THEATER.

THIS RESOLUTION SUPPORTS OUR NATIONAL GUARD MEMBERS AND THEIR FAMILIES.

>> LOVE BUILDS UP.

WE ARE SUPPOSED TO LOVE EACH OTHER, TO LOVE OUR NEIGHBOR.

AS WE LOVE OURSELVES.

WHAT WE ARE DOING TODAY IS NOT LOVING OUR NEIGHBORS.

IT IS NOT BUILDING IT UP.

IT IS NOT CALMING THE TENSION.

IT IS NOT PROVIDING REASSURANCES OF TRUST.

♪♪ >> ERIC: MINNESOTA HAS LONG PRIDED ITSELF AS PROGRESSIVE IN TERMS OF POLITICS AND SOCIAL POLICY.

THIS IS THE LAND OF CIVIL RIGHTS ICONS ROY WILKINS AND HUBERT HUMPHREY AND WALTER MONDALE.

WE PASSED ANTI-LYNCHING LEGISLATION IN THE 1920S AND A FAIR HOUSING LAW IN THE 1960S.

WE WERE KNOWN AS "THE STATE THAT WORKS."

IN THE WAKE OF A DECADE OF STORIES ABOUT MINNESOTA'S LARGE RACIAL DISPARITIES, AND AFTER THE POLICE KILLINGS OF PHILANDO CASTILE, GEORGE FLOYD, AND DAUNTE WRIGHT, MANY MINNESOTANS ARE WONDERING IF THAT PROGRESSIVE REPUTATION WAS A BIG MYTH.

JOINING US TO TAKE A BIG-PICTURE LOOK AT OUR STATE'S RACIAL HISTORY IS CIVIL RIGHTS HISTORIAN BILL GREEN.

GREEN TEACHES AT AUGSBURG COLLEGE WHERE HE IS THE M. ANITA GAYE HAWTHORNE PROFESSOR FOR CRITICAL RACE AND ETHNIC STUDIES.

WELL, WHAT DO YOU THINK, DOCTOR?

A LITTLE BIT OF FACT, A LITTLE BIT OF MYTH, OR HOW WOULD YOU JUDGE IT?

>> I THINK IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF BOTH.

ALTHOUGH THE HISTORY OF RACE IN MINNESOTA IN THE 19TH CENTURY WAS VERY MUCH LIKE WHAT WE WOULD SEE IN OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY.

RACISM WAS VERY MUCH A WAY OF PEOPLE, THAT PEOPLE SAW EACH OTHER.

IN PLACES LIKE ST. PAUL AND IN MINNEAPOLIS ESPECIALLY, WHERE YOU HAD THE LARGEST CONCENTRATION OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS.

THE NEWSPAPERS PLAYED UP THE LIVELIHOOD OF BLACKLOCK PEOPLE BEING CULPRITS OF CRIME AND PREDATORS.

AND THEN THEY BASICALLY CHEERED ON THE ACTIONS OF AN ACT OF POLICE FORCE TO PUT DOWN THESE THREATS.

THERE IS, YOU KNOW, THE -- WHEN THE 15TH AMENDMENT WAS RATIFIED, THAT ESTABLISHED VOTING RIGHTS FOR AFRICAN-AMERICANS WITHIN THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION, THAT SAME YEAR, ST. PAUL PAPER PUBLISHED AN ARTICLE THAT STATED THAT THE POLICE COURTROOM IS FILLED YESTERDAY WITH THE NICEST, BLACKLOCKEST, MOST SAVORIEST CLUSTERED OF COLORED NEGROES EVER GATHERED TOGETHER IN THAT ROOM.

THIS IS WAS PRETTY MUCH THE IS AS MOSS SPHERE OF RACE -- ATMOSPHERE OF RACE IN MINNESOTA IN THE 19TH CENTURY, AND IT WOULD CARRY ON.

THAT KIND OF RACISM WOULD CARRY ON WELL INTO THE 20TH CENTURY.

>> Eric: YOU WROTE A -- ONE OF YOUR MORE RECENT BOOKS, A FANTASTIC BOOK IT IS, AND YOU TALKED ABOUT THE WHITE MAJORITY ONLY GOING SO FAR AND I THINK YOU CALLED IT THE -- A GESTURE POLITICS.

CAN YOU FLESH THAT OUT FOR US A LITTLE BIT?

>> WELL THE NOTION OF EQUALITY WAS ONE-DIMENSIONAL IN THE 19TH CENTURY, EQUALITY WAS DEFINED IN ESTABLISHING VOTING RIGHTS, IN TERMS OF FREEING BLACKLOCK PEOPLE FROM SERVITUDE, FROM ENSLAVEMENT.

IN TERMS OF ESTABLISHING CITIZENSHIP FOR BLACKLOCKS.

AND THEN NOTHING ELSE.

SO THAT AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMING TO MINNESOTA, WILLING TOA FARM, FOR EXAMPLE, WOULD HAVE TO FIND A PERSON WHO WAS WILLING TO SELL IT TO THEM.

AND THERE WAS NOTHING THAT WOULD REQUIRE THAT KIND OF SALE TO OCCUR.

BLACKLOCKS WERE NOT GOING TO BE HIRED BY ANYONE.

THEY DID NOT RECEIVE THE KINDS OF APPRENTICESHIPS THAT WHITE PEOPLE RECEIVED AND IMMIGRANTS IN PARTICULAR WERE ABLE TO RECEIVE.

BLACKS WEREN'T ABLE TO AGUIRRE LODGING IN CERTAIN SECTIONS OF THE CITY.

SO -- AND YET A LOT OF THE FRIENDS OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS FELT THAT THEY HAD DONE THEIR SHARE BY FREEING AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND BY GIVING THEM CITIZENSHIP.

GIVING LITTLE THOUGHT TO THE NOTION THAT OPPORTUNITY WAS AN ESSENTIAL PART OF FREEDOM.

IT WAS NOT USEFUL TO JUST HAVE A BALLOT AND NOT BE ABLE TO SIT IN A RESTAURANT WITH ANY KIND OF DIGNITY AND BE SERVED, OR TO APPLY FOR A JOB AND TO RECEIVE IT.

AND YET THERE'S THAT KIND OF BLINDNESS ON THE PART OF EVEN THE FRIENDS OF OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS THAT THEY HAD DONE EVERYTHING THEY NEEDED TO DO.

AND THAT BLACKS NEEDED TO KIND OF PULL THEMSELVES UP BY THEIR BOOTSTRAPS.

THERE ALSO WAS A TIME WHEN AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND WHITE AMERICANS LIVED IN DIFFERENT WORLDS, TO THE POINT WHERE THEY DIDN'T DIVERGE, THEY DIDN'T CONNECT.

AND SO IT WAS -- THEY LIVED IN PARALLEL UNIVERSES.

SO IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT FOR AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND WHITE PEOPLE TO REALLY BE ABLE TO HAVE A COMMON LANGUAGE TO DESCRIBE THE REALITIES AROUND RACE.

AND YOU ADD TO THE THAT THE FACT THAT A NUMBER OF THE LEADERS OF BLACK COMMUNITY ALSO FOUND THEMSELVES COMPROMISED BY THE NEED FOR PATRONAGE BY WHITE POWER BROKERS SO THAT THERE WASN'T AN OPPORTUNITY FOR CANDID CONVERSATION BETWEEN THE TWO.

A LOT OF THE WHITE LEADERS WERE NEVER EVEN -- NEVER REALLY HAD FRIENDSHIPS WITH BLACKS AND CERTAINLY NEVER HAD THE KIND OF CONVERSATIONS THAT WERE NEEDED TO SHED LIGHT ON THE QUALITY OF LIFE THAT AFRICAN-AMERICANS HAD.

AND IF A BLACK PERSON MENTIONED IT, THEY WOULD BE ACCUSED OF BEING UNGRATEFUL.

>> Cathy: DR. GREEN, I'M SO SORRY TO INTERRUPT YOU.

I'M WONDERING, FROM WHERE YOU STAND AS A HISTORIAN, THERE SEEMS TO SOME MOMENTUM NOW TOWARD CHANGE, BUT DO YOU SEE THIS NEW MOMENTUM LASTING?

>> I'M ASKED THAT A LOT.

AND I APPRECIATE THE QUESTION.

I THINK -- I'LL TELL YOU WHAT I TELL EVERYBODY.

IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN.

I THINK BACK TO THE 1960s, THE SAME QUESTION WAS ASKED.

AS BLACKS AND WHITES WALKED THE STREETS PROTESTING FOR EQUAL TREATMENT.

UNDER THE LAW FOR AFRICAN-AMERICANS.

I THINK -- YOU KNOW, WHAT REMAINS TO BE SEEN IS WHETHER EVERY THE COMMITMENT TO -- WE HAVE THE COMMITMENT TO MAINTAIN THE MOMENTUM.

OFTENTIMES INERTIA SETS IN.

AND OTHER ISSUES BEGIN TO DISTRACT US FROM THE TYPES OF SACRIFICES THAT SOCIETY HAS TO MAKE IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE THAT NO ONE IS LEFT BEHIND.

AND I THINK WE -- IT DEPENDS ON WHETHER THE COMMUNITY IS ABLE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE PRICE IS FOR FULL EQUALITY, FOR FULL OPPORTUNITY.

OFTENTIMES THOSE WHO ARE IN FAVOR OF EQUALITY BEGIN TO BACK OFF WHEN IT LOOKS LIKE THAT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET CERTAIN PRIVILEGES THAT THEY HAVE.

SO IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN HOW MUCH EDUCATION WE HAVE.

NOW, I FEEL A LITTLE HOPEFUL, BECAUSE WE DON'T LIVE IN THE SAME -- UNDER THE SAME CIRCUMSTANCES THAT WE DID 15 YEARS AGO, 20 YEARS AGO.

CERTAINLY 100 YEARS AGO.

IN THE SENSE THAT I BELIEVE THE LARGEST SOCIETY IS EDUCATED GRAPHICALLY WITH THE KINDS OF CIRCUMSTANCES THAT BLACK PEOPLE EXPERIENCE.

AND BY THAT I MEAN, WE ACTUALLY SEE -- WE SEE IMAGES OF DISPARATE TREATMENT BY ABUSIVE POLICEMEN, FOR EXAMPLE.

THAT'S ACTUALLY SOMETHING WE CAN SEE.

WHEREAS BEFORE, IT WAS HARD FOR A LARGE NUMBER OF SOCIETY TO ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT, THAT THINGS COULD BE THAT BAD.

SO I THINK THERE'S SOME POSSIBILITY FOR IMPROVEMENT, BUT IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN WHETHER WE'LL ACTUALLY GET THERE.

>> Eric: GREAT PERSPECTIVE, DOCTOR.

ALL THE BEST.

>> Cathy: GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

♪♪ >> CATHY: DEREK CHAUVIN IS NOW THE SECOND MINNESOTA POLICE OFFICER IN RECENT HISTORY TO BE CONVICTED FOR MURDER.

BUT THERE ARE COUNTLESS OTHER PEOPLE, LIKE PHILANDO CASTILE, JAMAR CLARK, AND SANDRA BLAND, WHO DIDN'T RECEIVE SUCH JUSTICE.

"REPORT FOR AMERICA" AND "ALMANAC" DATA REPORTER KYELAND JACKSON FOUND THAT CHAUVIN'S CONVICTION WAS AN EXCEPTION, AND MANY COMMUNITY VOICES WANT MORE REFORM TO MAKE THE SYSTEM EQUAL FOR EVERYBODY.

>> AS TO COUNT ONE, UNINTENTIONAL SECOND-DEGREE MURDER WHILE COMMITTING A FELONY, FIND THE DEFENDANT GUILTY.

>> DEREK CHAUVIN WAS SILENT WHEN HE WAS FOUND GUILTY FOR MURDERED FOR GEORGE FLOYD.

AND MANY CELEBRATING HIS CONVICTION.

BUT MOST TIMES, CASES AGAINST POLICE OFFICERS DON'T END THIS WAY.

>> AND THE HISTORY OF THE STATE OF MINNESOTA, WE'VE ONLY HAD FIVE OFFICERS CHARGED NOW.

AND THE FIRST WAS CHARGED IN 2016.

SO THIS SHOULD TELL YOU THAT THE HISTORY OF THE STATE, WE HAVE BEEN GIVING COPS A PASS FOR MURDERING PEOPLE FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

AND THAT'S BEEN THE PATTERN, NOT THE EXCEPTION.

AND EVEN WITH THAT, IT'S BEEN VERY HARD TO GET A CONVICTION.

>> DATA FROM THE MINNESOTA BOARD OF PEACE OFFICER STANDARDS AND TRAINING SHOWS JUST HOW DIFFICULT IT IS.

BETWEEN 2016 AND 2020, THERE WERE 731 CASES ACCUSING MINNESOTA POLICE OF CRIMINAL MISCONDUCT.

CHARGES WERE DROPPED IN NEARLY HALF OF THOSE CASES AND EVEN FEWER OF THEM LED TO A CONVICTION.

KATE WILL HE VINE WITH THE KA DOZEO SCHOOL OF LAW IN NEW YORK SAYS -- >> WITH POLICE, YOU SEE PROSECUTORS TAKING UP TO A YEAR TO CHARGE THEM.

LIKE DOING EXTENSIVE RESPECTFULLY, TALKING TO EXPERTS, DOING ALL SORTS OF WORK TO SEE IF CHARGING THEM IS PROPER.

THEN PRESENTING THAT INFORMATION TO THE GRAND JURY.

SO ALREADY YOU ARE SOWING CERTAIN AMOUNTS OF DOUBTS IN THE MINDS OF A JURY THAT JUST WON'T BE THERE WITH AN ORDINARY CIVILIAN.

YOU SEE GRAND JURIES NOT INDICTING.

BUT YOU SEE THAT THAT'S NOT TRUE WHEN IT COMES TO POLICE OFFICERS.

AND THEN ANOTHER REASON AND THIS GOES THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE PROCESS, IS THE PUBLIC'S TRUST IN AND BELIEF IN POLICE OFFICERS.

SO POLICE JUST AREN'T GIVEN -- JUST ARE GIVEN A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF CREDIBILITY, AND I FIND THIS VERY ODD.

SOMEONE WHO HAS ONLY GOOD VIEW OF THE POLICE, RIGHT?

AND THESE PEOPLE ARE GO OUT TO PROTECT US AND THEY'RE BRAVE.

I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT TRANSLATES INTO THEY'RE HONEST, BUT SOMEHOW IT DOES.

SOMEHOW THE IDEA THAT THE POLICE, YOU KNOW, ARE THERE TO PROTECT YOU, TRANSLATES INTO, THEY ARE NEVER BEING DISHONEST -- THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME INTEREST IN BEING DISHONEST AS OTHER PEOPLE DO, WHICH WE KNOW IS COMPLETELY FALSE BECAUSE THERE'S AN ENTIRE CATEGORY OF POLICE PERJURY THAT HAS A NAME, AND -- SO YOU JUST HAVE THIS OVERARCHING FAVORITISM TOWARDS POLICE FROM JUDGES AND JURORS, SOME OF WHICH IS OVERT, SOME OF WHICH IS IMPLICIT AND SOME PEOPLE DON'T EVEN REALIZE THEY'RE DOING IT.

THAT MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO GET AN INDICTMENT AND CONVICTION.

>> DEREK CHAUVIN'S CONVICTION IS AN EXCEPTION.

>> MY INITIAL REACTION WAS RELIEF.

THAT THE JURY GOT IT RIGHT.

THAT WE WERE ALL AFFIRMED IN WHAT THE VIDEO WE HAVE BEEN WATCHING FOR A YEAR, THAT WE ALL SAW WHAT WE KNEW THAT WE SAW.

THEN A LOT OF GRIEF.

KNOWING HOW MANY FAMILIES DIDN'T GET THE JUSTICE THAT THE FLOYD FAMILY HAS GOTTEN TODAY.

IT DOESN'T CHANGE, DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A LOSS.

YOU CAN GAIN WITH IT.

SO WE GOT TO HAVE ENOUGH HEAT IN THERE THAT WE TRY POLICING AND THAT WE TRANSFORM POLICING FOR THE BETTER.

AND IN A WAY THAT OUR COMMUNITY IS DEMANDING.

>> ONE COMMUNITY LEADER WHO'S BEEN PUSHING FOR CHANGE IS JUSTIN BETTER RELEASED, AND ACCORDING TO HIM, THE STRUGGLE ISN'T OVER.

>> THE COMMUNITY ALSO DEMANDED AN INVESTIGATION INTO M.P.D.

CHANGED TO THE P.O.S.T.

BOARD.

THE COMMUNITY IS WORKED SO HARD TO GET TO THIS MOMENT WHERE IT FEELS LIKE A LITTLE BIT OF JUSTICE.

AND I THINK THE COMMUNITY GETS THE VICTORY HERE.

CHANGE IS POSSIBLE.

AND IT'S HARD WORK.

IT'S NOT JUST DONE IN THE STREETS.

IT'S DONE IN POLICIES.

IT'S DONE IN TALKING TO YOUR RACIST UNCLE.

IT'S DONE IN ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT WAYS.

AND WE HAVE ANOTHER TRIAL.

THE COMMUNITY'S GOT TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO WITH GEORGE FLOYD SQUARE.

WE HAVE A SITUATION RIGHT NOW WHERE LAW ENFORCEMENT, YOU KNOW, IS BEING OVERLY RELIED ON, TO KEEP THE PEACE IN THE COMMUNITY, EVEN THOUGH WE KNOW THAT THEY'RE AGITATORS AGAINST PEACE, JUST FROM HAVING THEIR PRESENCE.

AND SO WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT, HOW DO WE TRANSFORM THAT?

♪♪ >> ERIC: ON WEDNESDAY, TWIN CITIES PBS CREATED AN HOUR-LONG SPECIAL LOOKING AT THE BROAD IMPACTS OF THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD.

IN ONE SEGMENT, WE TALKED TO TWO PSYCHOLOGISTS ABOUT THE TRAUMA OF THE PAST YEAR ON FAMILIES, ESPECIALLY AFRICAN-AMERICAN FAMILIES.

HERE'S AN EXCERPT FROM THAT STORY.

>> NOW THAT WE'VE HAD THESE EVENTS AND NOW THAT THESE EVENTS HAVE BEEN SHOWN OVER AND OVER AND OVER, AND HAVE BEEN THE TOPIC OF ADULT CONVERSATION, IT HAS TO BE HAVING AN AWFUL EFFECT ON CHILDREN.

AND THE MAIN EFFECT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE IS NOT ONLY AN INCREASE IN ALL THE BAD STATISTICS LIKE SUICIDE, BUT IN GENERAL, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A LOT MORE ANXIETY.

ALONG WITH THAT, WORRYING.

A LOT OF FEARFULNESS.

DISRUPTIVE BEHAVIORS, YOU KNOW, YOUNGER CHILDREN WITH TANTRUMS, TEENAGERS WITH REBELLION AND OPPOSITION.

WE'RE EXPECTING THOSE THINGS TO DRAMATICALLY INCREASE BECAUSE WE'VE HAD THESE SERIES OF EVENTS.

>> FOR BLACK CHILDREN, TRAUMA HAS ACTUALLY ALREADY PREEXISTED BEFORE THE SITUATION WITH GEORGE FLOYD.

BECAUSE BEFORE THAT, AS A COMMUNITY OF BLACK FOLKS, WE EXPERIENCED PHILANDO CASTILE, JAMAR CLARK, SANDRA BLAND, RIGHT?

AND SO WE JUST GO ON AND ON WITH SEEING TRAUMATIC DEATHS.

WHAT WE USED TO HEAR ABOUT NOW BECAUSE OF SOCIAL MEDIA, WE ACTUALLY SEE IN REAL TIME.

>> ADULTS HAVE TO GET THEIR HEAD TOGETHER AND TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES.

AND THEY NEED TO ASSUME THAT THEIR KID HAS SOME THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS ABOUT THESE EVENTS.

JUST BECAUSE A KID MAY BE BEHAVING OKAY, YOU KNOW, YOU SHOULD NOT ASSUME THAT THEY ARE JUST OKAY.

YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO THOSE THINGS THAT HAVE ALWAYS HELPED CHILDREN AND FAMILIES IN THE PAST.

YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE ALWAYS RECOMMENDED TO PARENTS AND FAMILIES IS TO HAVE A FAMILY MEAL TOGETHER EVERY DAY.

HAVING A GROUP FAMILY DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON.

BECAUSE CHILDREN, AGAIN, WON'T UNDERSTAND ALL OF WHAT IS HAPPENING.

>> THE BEST THINGS PARENTS CAN FIRST DO IS RECOGNIZE THEIR OWN TRAUMA.

AND MY RULE OF THUMB IS, IF IT'S HARD FOR YOU TO DEAL WITH IT, JUST MULTIPLY THAT AND UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S HARDER FOR YOUR CHILD.

EVEN IF WE TRY TO SHIELD OUR CHILD FROM TV OR RADIO OR ANY OTHER OUTLET, THEY STILL CONNECT WITH OTHER CHILDREN.

AND CHILDREN WILL MAKE UP THEIR OWN STORY OR SCENARIO AND IT WON'T BE ANYTHING CLOSE TO BEING ACCURATE.

AND SO SOME BLACK PARENTS OVEREXPOSE CHILDREN IN A SENSE TO MAKE IT ACCURATE, THEY OVEREXPOSE THEIR CHILDREN TO ADULT INFORMATION THAT THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE.

AND THEY USE ADULT WORDS THAT CHILDREN SHOULDN'T UNDERSTAND.

AND WON'T UNDERSTAND.

>> EVERYBODY NEEDS TO HAVE A ROUTINE.

AND THEY NEED THEIR LIFE TO BE PREDICTABLE.

SO EVERY TEEN HOPES THAT, BECAUSE WHEN OUR LIVES ARE PREDICTABLE, WE TEND TO FEEL MORE SECURE AND MORE IN CONTROL OF OURSELVES AND OUR LIVES.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUTURE IS GOING TO BE LIKE.

AND I'M EXPECTING A TIDAL WAVE OF DEMAND FOR MENTAL HEALTH CARE FOR CHILDREN AND ADOLESCENTS, IN THE UPCOMING YEARS.

>> ERIC: YOU CAN FIND MUCH MORE COVERAGE ON THE CHAUVIN TRIAL VERDICT BY GOING TO TPT.ORG/ALMANAC.

THERE YOU WILL FIND A SPECIAL ONE-HOUR PROGRAM WE DEVOTED TO THE VERDICT AND ITS AFTERMATH.

AGAIN, YOU CAN FIND THAT SPECIAL COVERAGE BY GOING TO TPT.ORG/ALMANAC.

STILL TO COME, REMEMBERING TWO MINNESOTA ICONS.

THE DEATH THIS WEEK OF FORMER VICE PRESIDENT WALTER MONDALE, AND THE FIFTH ANNIVERSARY WEDNESDAY OF THE PASSING OF PRINCE.

>> ♪ OH, YEAH ♪ ♪♪ >> ERIC: WEDNESDAY MARKED THE FIFTH ANNIVERSARY OF THE DEATH OF PRINCE AT AGE 57.

EARLIER THIS MONTH, THE SINGER'S ESTATE SAID IT WAS WORKING WITH SONY TO ISSUE A NEW ALBUM, "WELCOME 2 AMERICA," WHICH PRINCE RECORDED IN 2010 BUT NEVER RELEASED.

THE ALBUM HAS A STRONG SOCIAL JUSTICE THEME.

NOW SITTING ACROSS THE STUDIO FROM US IS TERRY GRAY.

WHEN HE'S NOT DOING AUDIO WORK HERE AT TPT, FOLLOWS ALL PRINCE NEWS VERY CLOSELY.

TERRY, THIS PRINCE ALBUM IS FROM THE FAMOUS VAULT OUT OF PAISLEY PARK.

WOULD HE HAVE WANTED THIS MATERIAL TO BE RELEASED?

>> IT'S TOUGH TO SAY.

IT'S RUMORED TO SAY THAT HE USED TO LEAK MATERIAL HIMSELF.

THESE ALBUMS WERE UNRELEASED FOR A REASON.

A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK THAT IT WASN'T UP TO PAR.

SO IT'S TOUGH TO SAY WHETHER HE WOULD HAVE WANTED IT OUT.

I KNOW THAT THERE MAY BE TWO OR THREE SONGS ON THIS ALBUM THAT I REALLY AM LOOKING FORWARD TO HEARING.

THE ESTATE IS -- WAS SMART TO COUPLE A CONCERT WITH IT, SO THAT THAT'S I THINK WHAT HARD-CORE FANS LIKE MYSELF REALLY WANT.

>> Cathy: CURIOUS TO SEE WHAT YOU THINK THAT PRINCE IS SAYING IN "WELCOME TO AMERICA."

>> WELL, I MEAN, A LOT OF HIS LATER WORK, HE DID TOUCH UPON SOCIAL ISSUES.

HE TALKED A LOT ABOUT SOCIAL ISSUES AND PROTEST SONGS IN HIS EARLY WORK, AND THEN ONCE WE GOT INTO THE '90s AND HE RANINTO THE BRICK WALL THAT IS WARNER BROTHS WHEN THEY WOULDN'T ALLOW HIM TO RELEASE -- THE SONGWRITING ABOUT THE SYSTEM, BUT IT WAS MORE ABOUT WHAT THE SYSTEM IS DOING TO ME, NOT NECESSARILY WHAT THE SYSTEM IS DOING AT LARGE.

BUT AS HE -- AS THE ARC AS IT CONTINUED, AND AS HE GOT OLDER, HE REALLY JUMPED INTO IT.

AND HE WAS REALLY -- HE WAS TOUCHED BY THE DEATH OF FREDDY GRAY.

ONE OF MY FAVORITE PROTEST SONGS IS THE SONG "BALTIMORE" -- >> Eric: I JUST WATCHED THAT AGAIN THIS MORNING AND THE VISUALS IN THE VIDEO ARE STRIKINGLY SIMILAR -- >> YOU COULD TAKE FREDDY GRAY AND MICHAEL BROWN'S NAME OUT OF THAT AND PUT IN GEORGE FLOYD AND THE SONG IS STILL JUST AS IMPACTFUL AS IT WAS IN 2015.

IT'S STILL RELEVANT TODAY.

>> Eric: ALONG THOSE LINES, I SAW PEOPLE OUTSIDE FIRST AVENUE THIS WEEK.

THERE'S A GOLD STAR FOR PRINCE ON THE WALL AT FIRST AVENUE.

AND THERE WERE PEOPLE LINED TO HAVE THEIR PICTURE TAKEN THERE ON WEDNESDAY.

BUT THEN THERE'S A RED STAR FOR GEORGE FLOYD.

AND I WONDER IF YOU THINK THAT'S A SYNERGY THERE?

>> MINNESOTA WAS KNOWN AND IS KNOWN FOR ITS MUSIC SCENE AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE SHOULD BE KNOWN FOR.

IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT WE'RE NOW KNOWN FOR THE EVENTS OF THE PAST YEAR.

>> Cathy: I'M CURIOUS, GETTING BACK TO THE MUSIC HERE, ARE ALL PRINCE FANS SUPER EXCITED ABOUT WHAT'S IN THE VAULT?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, I WAS -- THERE'S A PIECE ON "60 MINUTES" A FEW WEEKS AND THEY SAID THERE COULD BE SOMETHING RELEASED PROBABLY UNTIL I'M 80.

THERE COULD BE THAT MUCH MATERIAL.

THE ESTATE I THINK IS IN A TOUGH SPOT BECAUSE THERE'S DIE-HARD FANS LIKE ME THAT ALREADY HAVE EVERYTHING, BUT WE WANT IT ALL AGAIN OR WE WANT CLEAN VERSIONS INSTEAD OF THE BOOTLEG VERSIONS.

AND THEN THERE'S THE CASUAL PRINCE FAN.

HOW DO YOU SELL AN ALBUM LIKE "WELCOME TO AMERICA" TO THE CASUAL FAN BUT ALSO TO THE DIE-HARD LIKE MYSELF AND I THINK THAT THEY'RE DOING IT BY COUPLING WITH A CONCERT DVD AS OPPOSED TO THE ALBUM, BECAUSE PRINCE, I MEAN, FOR ME, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE CONCERTS.

I WILL SPEND MY HOURS -- MY WIFE WILL TELL YOU -- I WILL SPEND HOURS WATCHING CONCERT FOOTAGE ON YouTube OF PRINCE.

I COULD DO THAT ALL DAY, ANY DAY AND TWICE ON SUNDAY.

>> Cathy: I KNOW THERE'S A TON OF STUFF IN THAT VAULT, BUT SHOULD SOME OF IT BE LEFT ALONE?

>> YEAH, BECAUSE I THINK SOME OF IT'S NOT VERY GOOD.

THE ESTATE RELEASED EARLIER THIS YEAR, OR LATE LAST YEAR, "THE SIGN OF THE TIMES" SET, AND THAT ALBUM WAS RELEASED WHEN I WAS 17 YEARS OLD, AND IT MEANS THE WORLD TO ME, SO I WAS HAPPY TO GET THE SPECIAL EDITION OF THAT WITH ALL THE BOOTLEGS OR ALL THE UNRELESSED MATERIAL SURROUNDING THAT ALBUM.

BUT A LOT OF FANS AREN'T HAPPY THAT -- JUST THAT THEY'RE GOING TO THROW ANYTHING OUT.

>> Eric: TERRY GRAY, YOU GOT A BOOK IN YOU ON THIS SUBJECT.

>> I'M GOING TO GO DO SOUND NOW.

>> Cathy: OKAY, THANKS, TERRY.

♪♪ >> CATHY: VICE PRESIDENT WALTER MONDALE PASSED AWAY THIS WEEK AT THE AGE OF 93.

HE DEDICATED MOST OF HIS LIFE TO PUBLIC SERVICE.

MONDALE SERVED NOT JUST AS VICE PRESIDENT BUT ALSO U.S.

SENATOR AND MINNESOTA ATTORNEY GENERAL.

HE WAS ANAMBASSADOR.

HE EARNED HIS PARTY'S NOMINATION FOR THE HIGHEST OFFICE IN THE LAND, BUT ALSO SUFFERED SOME STUNNING DEFEATS.

THROUGH IT ALL, HE MAINTAINED A REMARKABLE HUMILITY.

"ALMANAC" POLITICAL REPORTER MARY LAHAMMER HAS OBSERVED AND COVERED MONDALE FOR DECADES AND OFFERS THIS POLITICAL REMEMBRANCE.

GLUM THE HUMPHREY'S FUNERAL WAS BROADCAST TO A NATIONAL AUDIENCE, GIVING ONE OF THE EULOGIES THAT TODAY WAS VICE PRESIDENT WALTER MONDALE.

ENDED WITH WORDS THAT ARE STILL REMEMBERED TODAY.

>> WHERE OTHERS WEARIED, HE TOOK STRENGTH.

WHERE OTHERS TURN ASIDE, HE EMBRACED.

WHERE OTHERS SMILED, HE SMILED.

WHERE OTHERS SPOKE IN BITTERNESS, HE SPOKE IN LOVE.

HUBERT TAUGHT US ALL HOW TO HOPE AND HOW TO LOVE.

HOW TO WIN AND HOW TO LOSE.

HE TAUGHT US HOW TO LIVE.

AND FINALLY, HE TAUGHT US HOW TO DIE.

>> Mary: IN 1979, MONDALE TRAVELED TO NORWAY, THE HOME OF HIS ANCESTORS.

TAGGINGALONG ON THE TRIP WAS KTCA.

TOGETHER WITH NORWEGIAN STATE TELEVISION, "WALTER MONDALE, THERE'S A FJORD IN YOUR PAST."

>> I FEEL BETTER ABOUT MY ROOTS.

I FEEL BETTER ABOUT WHERE I CAME FROM.

I THINK I KNOW A LITTLE BIT BETTER WHO I AM.

I CAN SEE -- HEAR THE VALUES THAT I INHERITED.

>> Mary: IN 1980, CARTER-MONDALE -- FIRST-SIT-DOWN TV INTERVIEW.

>> I'VE BEEN ENGAGED IN PRACTICALLY EVERY MAJOR FIGHT IN AMERICAN POLITICAL LIFE IN THE LAST 16 YEARS.

>> WHEN I HEAR YOUR NEW IDEAS, I AM REMINDED OF THAT AD, "WHERE'S THE BEEF"?

YEAH?

[ Laughter ] >> IT WORKED.

HE DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO HANDLE IT.

THE DEBATE WAS MINE I THINK BEFORE IT WAS OVER.

AND IT WAS A GOOD DAY FOR TWO OLD DEMOCRATS.

>> THE PLACE COULD HAVE FLOATED TO THE MOON I THINK.

EVERYBODY WAS SO EXCITED ABOUT IT.

NOW COMES THE BIG TEST.

THE DEBATE WITH YOUR OPPONENT.

>> I ALMOST RESENT VICE PRESIDENT BUSH, YOUR PATRONIZING ATTITUDE THAT YOU HAVE TO TEACH ME ABOUT FOREIGN POLICY.

>> SHE WENT AFTER HIM.

SHE SAID, YOU KNOW, DON'T TALK TO ME THAT WAY.

I'VE EARNED THIS AS A NATIONAL CANDIDATE.

SO DON'T EVER GET CONDESCENDING WITH ME AGAIN.

AND I THINK -- [ Laughter ] I THINK HE FELT HE'D BEEN SPANKED.

>> I AM NOT GOING TO EXPLOIT FOR POLITICAL PURPOSES MY OPPONENT'S YOUTH AND INEXPERIENCE.

[ Laughter ] >> HE COULDN'T HAVE WON THAT ONE.

I MEAN, HE WAS GOING OUT AGAINST -- COULD ANYONE BEAT FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT IN THE 1940s?

NO.

>> Mary: IT WAS A DEVASTATING NIGHT FOR DEMOCRATS.

WITHOUT A CLEAR VICTOR IN THE SENATE RACE, MONDALE WENT HOME FOR THE NIGHT.

>> I TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS RESULT.

IT'S ON MY SHOULDERS.

NO, NO, THIS IS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE.

I -- THIS IS -- THIS IS A RESULT THAT THE PEOPLE OF MINNESOTA HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO MAKE.

THEY MADE IT.

I ACCEPT IT.

I DID MY BEST.

AND LET'S GO ON TO THE NEXT ISSUE.

[ Cheers and applause ] >> Mary: WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO STILL BE ALIVE WHEN SOMETHING IS NAMED AFTER YOU?

>> WE ARE GLAD YOU ARE!

>> WE DID A LOT OF THINGS TOGETHER.

WE SHAPED A STATE TOGETHER.

WE PROTECTED THIS WONDERFUL RIVER.

TOGETHER.

>> CATHY: HERE TO TALK ABOUT WALTER MONDALE'S LEGACY, ESPECIALLY HOW HE AND JIMMY CARTER TRANSFORMED THE ROLE OF THE VICE PRESIDENCY, IS LARRY JACOBS.

HE HEADS THE CENTER OF POLITICS AND GOVERNANCE AT THE HUMPHREY SCHOOL AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA.

PROFESSOR, GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

>> GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> Cathy: LET'S -- I'VE ALWAYS WANTED TO KNOW THIS AND I BET YOU KNOW THE ANSWER.

WHY DID FRITZ MONDALE AGREE TO RUN ON CARTER'S TICKET?

>> THE WELLSTONE SONS WENT TO HIM AND ASKED.

AND IF MONDALE HAD NOT STEPPED FORWARD, IT WAS POSSIBLE YOU COULD HAVE HAD SOME UGLY BACK AND FORTH.

BUT THE SONS CAME FORWARD.

MR. MONDALE SAID, I'LL DO IT.

>> Eric: THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TALK ABOUT THE CARTER-MONDALE PARTNERSHIP AND MARY STUCKY TALKED TO MONDALE ABOUT THE VICE PRESIDENCY.

LET'S LISTEN.

>> THE LEARNING EXPERIENCE I HAD AS VICE PRESIDENT WAS ALMOST UNPRECEDENTED FOR ME.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, I CAN'T THINK OF ANY OTHER ROLE THAT ONE CAN PERFORM WHICH WOULD BE AS PROFOUND A LEARNING EXPERIENCE.

AS THE FOUR YEARS I SERVED AS VICE PRESIDENT.

PARTICULARLY IN THAT SPECIAL ROLE THAT I PLAYED WITH THE PRESIDENT.

I WAS WITH HIM MOST OF THE TIME.

I WAS WITH HIM ON ALL MAJOR DECISIONS.

AS A MATTER OF FACT ANY DECISION I WANTED TO BE INVOLVED IN.

IN BOTH DOMESTIC AND INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS, I HAD A HEAVY ROLE TO PLAY.

AND I THINK I LEARNED MORE IN FOUR YEARS ABOUT WHAT IT TAKES TO GOVERN THIS NATION.

THIS LAST FOUR YEARS HAS BEEN AN EXTRAORDINARY LEARNING EXPERIENCE FOR ME.

SO I FEEL THAT IT IS BEEN -- I HAVE NO REGRETS.

HUBERT HUMPHREY TOLD ME THAT IF I TOOK THIS JOB, HE SAID YOU'LL GROW, YOU'LL BE A BETTER MAN, TAKE IT.

>> Eric: WAS ON CARTER'S FAMOUS MALAISE SPEECH.

CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THAT STORY?

>> MONDALE THOUGHT IT WAS A MISTAKE FOR PRESIDENT CARTER TO BE BLAMING VOTERS FOR THE POLITICAL DIFFICULTIES THAT THE CARTER-MONDALE TICKET OR PRESIDENCY WAS HAVING AT THAT AT POINT.

YOU KNOW, IT'S A SIGN OF THEIR PARTNERSHIP, THOUGH, THAT VICE PRESIDENT MONDALE HAD STRONG RESERVATIONS.

HE EXPRESSED THEM.

AND THEN HE MOVED ON.

>> Cathy: SO LET'S TALK ABOUT HOW HE AND PRESIDENT CARTER KIND OF TRANSFORMED THE VICE VIE PRESIDENCY.

THERE WAS THE VICE PRESIDENCY PRE-MONDALE AND THEN POST-MONDALE.

>> SO BEFORE MONDALE, THE VICE PRESIDENT WAS LITERALLY STAND-BY MATERIAL.

BUT WHEN MONDALE WAS CALLED OVER TO PLAINS, GEORGIA, TO TALK TO THE THEN DEMOCRATIC NO, DEMOCRATICNOMINEE, JIMMY CARTERE RAISED THE TOPIC OF, CAN I DO MORE WITH THIS?

AND I THINK MR. MONDALE WAS THINKING ABOUT SOME OF THE HU MILLATIONS THAT HUBERT HUMPHREY HAD HAD UNDER LYNDON JOANSON.

IT COULD BE QUITE BRUTAL.

ALL THE INFORMATION IN THE WHITE HOUSE WENT THROUGH MONDALE AND HIS AIDES.

THEY MERGED THEIR STAFF.

THERE WAS NEVER A COPRESIDENCY.

THERE WAS ALWAYS THE PRESIDENT.

BUT WALTER MONDALE WAS INTEGRAL TO WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THE ADMINISTRATION AND PLAYED SOME ESSENTIAL ROLES THE.

EVERY PRESIDENT SINCE HAS FOLLOWED THE MONTH DAILG ROLE.

NOW, SOMETIMES IT WAS DICK CHENEY PROBABLY TAKING ON MORE OF A PRESENCE AND ROLE.

BUT IF YOU LOOK TODAY, CAM LA HARRIS IS -- KAMALA HARRIS IS VERY CLEARLY IN THE MONDALE TRADITION.

>> Eric: ONE OF THE THINGS I HAD BEEN REMINDED OF READING ABOUT VICE PRESIDENT MONDALE THIS WORK WAS HIS ACTIVITY IN THE CAMP DAVID ACCORDS, THAT FINELY OCCURRED WITH THE PALESTINIANS.

>> THIS WAS -- YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE KIND OF DEFINING MOMENTS IN THE MIDDLE EAST FOR ALL THE DIFFICULTY IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

THERE IS A STRUCTURE.

AND WALTER MONDALE AND JIMMY CARTER GET A LOT OF THE CREDIT FOR THAT.

THE PALESTINIANS TRUSTS JIMMY CARTER A BIT, BUT THE ISRAELIS DID NOT.

WHEREAS WALTER MONDALE HAD A LONG-STANDING RELATIONSHIP WITH THE -- REALLY LAID THE GROUND WORK, AND I THINK SOME PRETTY TOUGH CONVERSATIONS WITH THE ISRAELIS AND MR. MONDALE WAS ABLE TO BRING THEM ALONG AND EVENTUALLY THIS REMARKABLE AGREEMENT AT CAMP DAVID IN THE UNITED STATES.

>> Cathy: FRITZ MONDALE WAS A REALLY GOOD LAWMAKER.

I MEAN, A GOOD LEGISLATOR.

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT WAS?

>> TWO REASONS.

MR. MONDALE WAS INCREDIBLY STUDIOUS.

HE'S GO TO HIS OFFICE.

IT WAS LIKE YOU'RE VISITING, AT LAST FOR ME, A RABBI.

NOT ONLY BOOKS ON THE SHELVES, BUT THEY WERE STACKED UP ON THE FLOOR.

AND WHEN HE WAS IN POWER, HE HAD ALL SORTS OF RESEARCH BEING DONE.

HE WOULD HOLD HEARINGS.

HE WOULD TALK TO AS MANY PEOPLE AS HE COULD, AND IN HIS MIND, I THINK THERE WAS A SENSE THAT YOU SHOULDN'T BE TOO SURE THAT YOU'RE RIGHT.

THE OTHER PART IS THERE WAS A KIND OF NORWEGIAN BOLDNESS.

HE DIDN'T TALK LOUD.

BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE RECORD, GERALDINE FERRARO AS A V.P.

CANDIDATE WAS AN EXTRAORDINARY MOVE.

HIS PASSING IS REALLY THE DRIVER OF THE FAIR HOUSING ACT TO SUBVERT THE RACIAL SEGREGATION OF HOUSING.

IT WAS AN EXTRAORDINARY MOVE THAT CONTINUES TO BE A BATTLE.

WHICH MR. MONDALE WON IT.

IF YOU LOOK AT HIS RUN-INS WITH THE C.I.A.

OR THE CHURCH COMMITTEE REVELATIONS THAT HE WAS IN CHARGE OF REVEALING ABOUT ABUSES OF POWER.

THAT TOOK SOME REAL PUSH-BACK.

AND THEN HIS TRIP TO SOUTH AFRICA, WHICH GAVEWAY TO THE EVENTUAL RELEASE OF -- I WAS IN ATLANTA WITH MR. MONDALE ABOUT 16, 17 YEARS AGO.

HE WAS ABOUT TO GIVE A SPEECH.

A YOUNG WOMAN CAME IN AND HAD A PRIVATE CAULK WITH MR. MONDALE.

AND THEY EVENTUALLY HUGGED AND SHE LEFT.

AND MR. MONDALE SAID, THAT WAS NELSON MANDELA'S GRANDDAUGHTER.

THE FAMILY STILL THINKS OF ME AS ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS THAT HE WAS RELEASED FROM PRISON, BECAME PRESIDENT, AND YOU GO ON DOWN THROUGH, YOU KNOW, TO MORE RECENTLY.

WHEN WALTER MONDALE BUCKED THE D.F.L.

AND ENDORSED KEITH ELLISON INSTEAD OF A D.F.L.

INSIDER, NOT POPULAR WITH SOME OF THE D.F.L., AND ANOTHER, YOU KNOW, SAY PART OF A PATTERN.

OF THIS NORWEGIAN BOLDNESS.

>> Eric: JUST WANT -- SOMETHING THAT'S APROPOS FOR TODAY.

HE WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN GETTING SOME CHANGES IN THE FILIBUSTER IN THE SENATE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

BEFORE WALTER MONDALE, THE FILIBUSTER WAS 67 SEATS.

AND IT HAD BEEN SET UP THAT WAY TO BLOCK CIVIL RIGHTS LEGISLATION.

MONDALE SPENT QUITE A BIT OF TIME LOOKING AT HOW IT COULD BE REDUCED.

THERE WAS A ROLE FOR THE FILIBUSTER, BUT IT WAS LOWERED TO 60.

AND IN THE ORBIT OF WASHINGTON, D.C. AND PEOPLE WHO KNEW THE INSTITUTIONS, WAMENTER MONDALE IS THOUGHT OF AS ONE OF THE GREAT INSTITUTIONAL INNOVATORS.

I THINK MORE RECENTLY HE'S COME TO HAVE STRONG RESERVATIONS ABOUT EVEN THAT 60 NUMBER THAT HE STILL WAS LOOKING TO KEEP THE FILIBUSTER IN SOME FORM.

>> Cathy: WE HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT.

YOU TAUGHT WITH WALTER MONDALE.

WHAT AN EXPERIENCE THAT MUST HAVE BEEN.

>> YOU KNOW, WE STARTED OFF, AND I WONDERED, PROBABLY HE DID, WHAT WAS A POLITICAL PRO DOING WITH A GEEKY ACADEMIC?

BUT OVER THE YEARS, WE TAUGHT 15, 16 YEARS.

WE BUILT A GREAT BOND.

HE TAUGHT ME A WHOLE LOT.

THIS IS A GUY WHO WAS VERY SMART, VERY WISELY WED.

HE COME UP WITH A PROBLEM WITH ELECTRONIC SURVEILLANCE, AND HAD A WOULD TURN TO ME AND SAY, WE GOT TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THIS.

I'M NOT SURE WE'RE RIGHT.

GO OFF AND READING BOOKS AND ARTICLES.

AND HE WOULD BRING IN PEOPLE FROM THE C.I.A.

AND THE WHITE HOUSE ON TO HELP US.

CAN YOU IMAGINE?

IT'S DOWN HILL AS A TEACHER AFTER WALTER MONDALE.

>> Eric: WELL, YOU DID HIM JUSTICE TONIGHT.

THANK YOU, PROFESSOR.

>> Cathy: YOU ABSOLUTELY DID.

THANKS, LARRY.

♪♪ >> ERIC: WE HAVE TIME TONIGHT TO SHARE SOME MINNESOTA HISTORY.

HERE'S OUR TRIVIA QUESTION FROM LAST TIME OUT.

THE YEAR WAS 1964, AND A BIG SPORTING EVENT WAS HELD AT WILLIAMS ARENA.

HERE'S A GREAT VINTAGE PHOTO OF THE PLACE.

AFTER THIS 1964 EVENT, VISITING COACHES COMPLAINED ABOUT THE POOR WILLIAMS ARENA CROWDS.

A TOTAL ATTENDANCE OF 17,000 FANS SPREAD OVER TWO DAYS.

IN A COLUMN IN THE "MINNEAPOLIS STAR" NEWSPAPER, A WRITER OFFERED AN EXCUSE SAYING AT THAT TIME OF YEAR THE ONLY EVENT THAT EXCITED LOCAL TICKET BUYERS WAS THE STATE HIGH SCHOOL COMPETITION.

WHAT HIGH-PROFILE GAMES ATTRACTED DISAPPOINTING WILLIAMS ARENA CROWDS IN MARCH OF 1964?

MOST YOU KNOW THE DRILL.

WE START WITH A LIST OF WRONG ANSWERS.

GET OUT YOUR SCORECARD.

>> ERIC: ALL GOOD GUESSES.

BUT STILL WRONG.

FOR THE RIGHT ANSWER, WE TURN TO AN EYEWITNESS TO HISTORY.

JOHN FROM ROCHESTER.

>> Eric: I WOULD HAVE BET ON YOUR DAD.

BUT, YES, THE LEGENDARY ADOLPH RUPP BROUGHT HIS KENTUCKY SQUAD TO THIS POORLY ATTENDED REGIONAL MEN'S BASKETBALL TOURNAMENT.

MICHIGAN AND OHIO MADE IT OUT OF THE BRACKET.

IN CASE YOU ARE KEEPING TRACK, BY THE WAY, IN 1964, THE BOYS HIGH SCHOOL BASKETBALL TOURNAMENT DREW 80,000 FANS, FOUR TIMES AS MANY SPECTATORS AS THE NCAA REGIONAL GAMES DO YOU THINK YOU HAVE A BIT OF SPORTS HISTORY TO SHARE, MAYBE SOMETHING WE CAN WORK INTO AN INDEX FILE QUESTION?

PLEASE CALL US AT 651-229-1430.

OR EMAIL US AT ALMANAC@TPT.ORG.

REMEMBER, WITH THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION ENTERING ITS FINAL WEEKS, YOU CAN WATCH ALL LEGISLATIVE ACTION ON YOUR LOCAL PBS STATION.

ALL DAY AND THIS TIME OF YEAR, SOMETIMES IN THE EVENING TOO.

CHECK YOUR LOCAL LISTINGS.

FOR CLOSING MUSIC, IT WAS THIS WEEK BACK IN 1999 THAT THE LEGENDARY FOLK/BLUES TRIO KOERNER, RAY, AND GLOVER APPEARED RIGHT HERE IN STUDIO "B."

LET'S LISTEN TO SPIDER JOHN, DAVE, AND TONY PLAY "WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH THE MILL."

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

WE HOPE TO SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT FRIDAY.

AND BE CAREFUL.

♪♪ >> ♪ WELL, I HAD A LITTLE CORN, I PUT IT IN A SACK ♪ ♪ I TOOK IT TO THE MILL, AND IT COME RIGHT BACK ♪ ♪ WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH THE MILL?

♪ ♪ DONE BROKE DOWN ♪ ♪ WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH THE MILL?

♪ ♪ DONE BROKE DOWN ♪ ♪ CAN'T GET NO GRINDING ♪ ♪ TELL ME WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH THE MILL ♪ ♪ PEOPLE ARE TALKING ♪ WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH THE MILL?

♪ ♪ DONE BROKE DOWN ♪ ♪ CAN'T GET NO GRINDING ♪ ♪ TELL ME WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH THE MILL ♪ [ HARMONICA SOLO ] ♪♪ ♪ WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH THE MILL?

♪ ♪ DONE BROKE DOWN ♪ ♪ WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH THE MILL?

♪ ♪ DONE BROKE DOWN ♪ ♪ CAN'T GET NO GRINDING ♪ ♪ TELL ME WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH THE MILL ♪ ♪ I WENT TO THE MILL FRIDAY NIGHT ♪ ♪ HAD TO TELL MY WOMAN IT AIN'T WORKING RIGHT ♪ ♪ WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH THE MILL?

♪ ♪ DONE BROKE DOWN ♪ ♪ WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH THE MILL?

♪ ♪ DONE BROKE DOWN ♪ ♪ CAN'T GET NO GRINDING ♪ ♪ TELL ME WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH THE MILL ♪ ♪♪ ♪ LISTEN HERE, PEOPLE, I DON'T WANT NO STUFF ♪ ♪ IF YOU CAN'T GRIND THE MEAL, JUST BRING ME THE HUSK ♪ ♪ WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH THE MILL?

♪ ♪ DONE BROKE DOWN ♪ ♪ WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH THE MILL?

♪ ♪ DONE BROKE DOWN ♪ ♪ CAN'T GET NO GRINDING ♪ ♪ TELL ME WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH THE MILL ♪ >> "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY... GREAT RIVER ENERGY: PROVIDING ELECTRICITY AND RELATED SERVICES TO 28 CO-OPS IN MINNESOTA.

A TOUCHSTONE ENERGY COOPERATIVE.

DELTA DENTAL OF MINNESOTA FOUNDATION: INVESTING $25 MILLION TO IMPROVE DENTAL CARE FOR MINNESOTANS IN NEED.

DELTADENTALMN.ORG/TPT.

THE SHAKOPEE MDEWAKANTON SIOUX COMMUNITY: A TRIBAL NATION FOCUSED ON COMMUNITY AND COLLABORATION, ESPECIALLY IN TIMES LIKE TODAY.

ENBRIDGE: CONNECTING MINNESOTANS WITH ENERGY FOR OVER 70 YEARS.

MORE AT ENBRIDGE.COM/LINETHREEUS.

AND EDUCATION MINNESOTA: THE VOICE FOR PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

MORE AT EDUCATIONMINNESOTA.ORG.

"ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.