- Hi, I'm Hermene Hartman, and thank you for being with us.

Our guest today is Chaz Ebert.

She is the widow of the GOAT of film critics, Roger Ebert.

And she carries on his tradition today in the archival ebert.com, and with her own column, "Chaz's Journal".

She produces the Ebert Fest, but more importantly, she carries on his life's tradition.

And you can see it in the documentary "Life Itself", she talks about lessons learned, lessons that she learned with her husband and from her husband.

Let's move on to a movie now.

That's one of the most brilliant, weird and unusual American documentary films I've seen in a long time.

Roger Ebert and Gene Siskel were the most powerful critics of all time, the perfect matching of opposites, even.

Though Roger wrote Beyond the Valley of the dolls, Gene.

Lived the life.

These were towering figures clashing.

It was I'm going to crush you.

You give Benji the Hunted a positive review.

That's totally unfair, because you realize they.

Almost don't care what anyone else thought, as long as they could try to persuade the other.

This morning, I confess that I am a sick person.

Three years ago, I found a lump under my chin and it turned out to be cancer.

Roger had an inner core made of steel.

We want to talk today about her book.

The book is on civility and kindness.

and God knows we need it today.

N'digo Studio, N'digo Studio For more information about this show, follow us on Facebook or Twitter.

Funding for this program was provided by Illinois Student Assistance Commission.

The Chicago Community Trust, Sin City Studios, Lamborghini Chicago, Gold Coast, and Downers Grove.

Blue Cross, Blue Shield of Illinois, Commonwealth Edison and the Illinois Health Plan.

The motion.

It's so good to be here with you today.

And I just want to tell you, the name of my book is called It's.

Time to.

Give It Feck.

And F.E.C.K FECK and that's an acronym.

It's elevating humanity through forgiveness, empathy, compassion and kindness.

And we're going to talk about all of those principles.

But first of all, tell me, how did you come about writing the book?

So I started writing the book.

I think it was like right before the pandemic.

And toward the end of Roger's life, I was called upon to give a lot of speeches on hope.

I had a speech called Sometimes Hope is a Strategy.

And so I would give the speech at cancer centers, at women's shelters, and other places when I was called on to speak.

And during that time, in speaking about hope, I developed so much compassion for the people that I was speaking with, and I started wanting to do something to help alleviate some of the suffering of others, and that's where the acts of kindness came in.

So it was an empathy came from empathy.

And the book is either E for Ebert or E for empathy, because Roger said that movies are a machine that generates empathy.

That's what he liked most about being a film critic, he said, it lets you put yourself in someone else's shoes for two hours at a time.

So I wanted to talk about each of the principles, because I think they're just so they're so important, they're so valued, yet they're so simple, but so hard to do.

- Yes.

- So let's talk about the first one, - Okay.

- let's talk about why is forgiveness so important?

- Forgiveness is the most difficult one.

And in fact, I had the other principles or values before I added forgiveness.

The empathy, the compassion, the kindness, again, toward the end of Roger's life, or shortly after he passed away, Robert Redford at the Sundance Institute started a program, it was named after Roger, and I used to send interns I forget the name of the program.

It was named after Roger, and I used to send interns to learn about film criticism at film festivals.

And I added to that program.

I would tell the students, or the emerging writers or film critics and technologist who went through those programs.

I want you to apply these principles in your work.

When you're writing about someone.

Roger started empathy, but I added compassion, I added kindness, And I said, "You really should write about these.

And whether you are a technologist who is inventing a video game or any kind of technology, what can you do to help encourage those principles?"

But it was after that that I went to, I think I went to South Africa.

I met Archbishop Desmond Tutu, and we had these talks about forgiveness.

And then I also in 2016, I think it was at my film festival, Ebert Fest in Champaign, Illinois.

I had a Palestina and Israeli come with their movie Disturbing the Peace.

They said we were talking about Archbishop Desmond Tutu and they said the things that he said about forgiveness are so true.

Without forgiveness, you have no path for redemption.

you remain a victim, and it is impossible to settle with people without forgiveness."

So the forgiveness, even though I added that principle to the programs later, it is the most important principle, and that's why it comes first.

- So in your book, on page 49, - Yes.

- you talk about your encounter with Bishop Tutu, and this is what you wrote.

You said, "President Nelson Mandela appointed Archbishop Tutu to chair the commission.

And he took on the testimony of nearly 21,000 victims.

And Archbishop Tutu said that he lost many friends over the concepts of their commission, but he and President Mandela knew there would be no peace and no progress without forgiveness.

That's the heaviest line to me in the entire book, because, as you say, it's the most difficult concept for the grace.

And how wonderful of you to take your interns and give them these principles to instill, to write about.

Yes, no matter, no matter what.

No matter whether they're talking about numbers or books or movies or video games, putting some of those principles really important in the work.

The other concept, or without the example you give in the concept of forgiveness is the killings that were done in Charleston, South Carolina, where white supremacy, a young man, Delian Ruth, went to a prayer service at the historic church Emanuel African Methodist Church, and he killed nine members of the congregation as they were in Bible study.

After he had prayed with them.

He prayed with them in the church as, let me tell you something.

Now, and those people.

Forgiveness is there for.

Forgiveness, especially forgiveness at that level.

How is the most incomprehensible?

Okay, so how do you forgive?

But at the same time, how do we society, larger society, yes, account for accountability and even penalty and punishment.

How do you do that.

So this is this is the thing that's so important.

I'm so glad that you asked me that question.

Whether it's Archbishop Tutu or the women at the Episcopal Church, African Episcopal Church who forgave people, you still hold people accountable for their actions.

It doesn't mean that if they do something criminal, they don't serve the time, or it doesn't mean that you can't have a moment where you are yourself, trying to find it in your heart to forgive, but don't become a doormat and just forgive anything that happens.

There are levels of accountability.

There is.

You know, sometimes someone may have remorse over something they did.

I think even with all of that, it is to me almost like a divine intervention that someone can find that depth of forgiveness, don't you think.

I do, yes, I do, I do, but it's hard.

It's hard still.

You know what they do?

It takes a lot of growth.

But you know what?

It takes a lot of growth.

But you know what?

They tell me?

And I actually have found this in my own life.

it takes a weight off of your shoulders when you forgive.

- Right, its' on you.

Yeah.

- It is on you, yeah.

- It's on you.

- Yeah.

- So you talk about listening.

- Yes.

- You talk about empathy is the ability to learn in somebody else's shoes.

And sounds like you developed that from Roger as he looked at films to give you empathy.

- Yeah.

- To look at what it's like to be in somebody's shoes.

- To be in someone else's shoes.

- It could be gender, it could be race.

- Yes.

- It could be culture, it could be profession.

- Age, ethnicity.

- Talk about that for me?

So empathy is something that I will just say, I will just say, it's not that I learned empathy from Roger because I actually learned empathy in my home.

From your dad.

My mom and my dad.

I actually I'm the eighth of nine children, big family, but my mother was the kindest person in the whole world.

For all you know, all the.

Kids at.

Your.

She said.

Well, in the neighborhood.

All the yeah, yeah, all the neighborhood.

Did you have a house like that?

Where?

Yard.

But I'm an only child only.

Tell me.

Bring your home company.

Oh, yeah.

I was looking for my sisters and brothers that I didn't have.

Yeah.

Same thing, same concept.

- But Hermene, do you know Roger was an only child?

And I see you reaching out to others with the things that you do, and he did it too, - You're connecting.

- I think as an only child, you're connecting.

- You are connecting.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, that's exactly what you're doing.

- So empathy is the ability to put yourself in someone else's shoes, to see what it's like to be someone different from you, and to actually have an understanding of what they're doing.

It doesn't mean you have to agree with everything they do.

- That's right.

But at least you have a perspective.

- A perspective, absolutely.

- Okay.

So as a lesson of empathy, in the book, you talk about the experience of the quarterback football player, Colin Kaepernick.

- Colin Kaepernick.

- And when he refused to stand - Yes.

- during the game for the national anthem.

And his empathy was Black men are getting killed by policemen, and here I am on this football field, - And what can I do?

- what can I do?

- Was use his platform.

- And that was his one man effort, right?

- That's right.

- Talk about that, 'cause you say, "Empathy is about being civil and accepting the difference of others, even when we disagree.

- Even when we disagree.

And with Colin Kaepernick, when he took a knee, I was part of a women's group, and one of the women in the group, and she was the one that I had always had the most in common with, I thought, until that moment when he took a knee, she said, "Isn't he disrespecting the veterans and the flag?"

I said, "No, he's not disrespecting anyone.

What he's doing is using his platform to speak up for people who he felt did not have the same privileges that he had."

And she said, "But why didn't he stand."

And I tried to explain to her, and we actually had sort of a falling out over it.

- But in that instance, - Yes?

- that particular case, - Yes?

Didn't that come down to racial that some white people just didn't understand what he was doing and why he was doing?

It wasn't disrespect at all.

It wasn't disrespect.

No, it was.

And I have to say, there were some white people who didn't understand, but there was also there were also some black people who didn't understand who she.

I'm not going to even mention the name of the person who she told me who who agree with her about that.

And I said, no, that's he's he's wrong.

He was not doing what he was doing.

he felt he was doing a patriotic duty" - And he was.

- "Of speaking up for other people and making it better for other people."

- Who couldn't speak up for themselves.

- Who couldn't speak up for themselves, yes.

- I mean, you know, it's like in sports, these guys get a lot of fame.

- Yes.

- And I guess Ali is probably the poster child, - Muhammad Ali, yes.

- And it's, I'm going to say something about how I feel, about what's happening socially.

- Right.

Right.

- And social justice to people, and that's exactly the carry on of that.

- Especially when they feel that they've been given so much - That's right.

- in the public eye, - and they know they have the ear of people.

- That's right.

- And I think that it's great that they speak out Now, your third principle is compassion.

You talk about that being a constant process, and you talk about the many lessons that you learned from Roger's illness.

Let's move on to a movie.

Now, that's one of the most brilliant, weird, and unusual American documentary films I've seen in a long time.

Roger Ebert was the definitive mainstream film critic in American cinema.

He has been writing for half of the history of feature films.

Roger was a mature writer early on.

It's written over a dozen books.

He wrote a novel.

He won a Pulitzer Prize.

How on earth did Roger Ebert write beyond the Valley of the dolls?

It's Thriller Week on Siskel and Ebert in the movies, and we've got three new ones.

Found a little excited.

Gene sound less excited.

Roger.

Roger Ebert, and Gene Siskel were the most powerful critics of all time, the perfect matching of opposites for me.

The movies are like a machine that generates empathy.

It lets you understand hopes, aspirations, dreams, and fears.

It helps us to identify with the people who are sharing this journey with us.

Compassion and kindness.

I couldn't believe how people were so kind and people were empathetic and compassionate.

People would do things like when I would have to sit at the hospital by his bedside, I would forget to eat.

People would bring me water, they would bring me food.

You know, when he passed away, people were like angels.

They surrounded me to let me know that I wasn't alone and that they would what would do whatever they could.

And that's why I want to pass along these principles to other people.

I would like to give back and pay it forward and do things and surround people the way that they surrounded me.

And that's exactly what you are describing in the book.

You talk about how we stretch ourselves and you do that on page 215 and you say that within minutes of sitting down, you stretch yourself.

You felt a collapse, but you felt people picking you up all the time, to the amazement of all to say, the game must go.

On and the game must go.

On.

And the rally cry.

That's typical in sports.

That's what you felt.

- Yes.

- With presence.

- Yes, with the presence of people, but also with the presence of Roger from the beyond.

I mean, sometimes he would, I mean, some people will understand this, because people who we love and whom we were very close with are kind of always around.

- I lost my mother.

- Yeah.

- She's 101 and 1/2.

- Yes.

- I know what you mean with the presence, because I try to tell people now, when they lose a loved one.

- Yes.

- They don't go away.

- They're around.

- They're here, - they're with you.

- Yes.

- At all times.

- 101.

You were so fortunate to have her.

- But you feel the presence.

The presence, and that's very key.

And then your last principle I think is fine.

This is kindness.

You shouldn't step your action.

And you say that you say kindness is an active up likening of those around us.

And you cited a wonderful example of a woman named Candice will just give her first name.

Okay?

When she went to the homeless people in the coldest winter we've ever had, people hold it below zero on Gore-Tex.

They call.

That's right.

Yeah.

On January, 2019, she went to the homeless, tell us that story, what she did and how she did it?

- So Candace is a wonderful woman.

She's a small business owner in Chicago.

She went out to go to work that day.

And when she got out, she realized this was the coldest she had ever seen it.

She went back to her house, called all of her employees and said, "Don't come in today, it's too cold."

She went to bed and she got in bed, but then her husband, she looked at him and she said, "We're warm and we're safe, but what about those people who don't have houses or apartments, and they're living under the bridge or under the embankment?

We have to go out and do something about it."

- Living outside, - Living outside in that cold, cold, frigid weather.

And she got groups of people together to bring their cars and bring their vans, and to pick up the people from the street and take them.

But she also had to call around to find a hotel to take them.

Because some of the hotels said, - No, they said no.

- They wouldn't say no, they said, they need to have their own credit card credit card and driver's license.

And she said, some of these people are homeless.

They don't have credit cards and driver's licenses.

I will pay for them.

They said.

Corporate policy, we can't.

But she did find a nice motel to take them, and she called for people.

People would come over and not only would they help bring the people there to the motel, they came back to help her cook, because all of the chefs didn't come to the restaurant because some couldn't get to work.

The people needed to eat.

She people helped clean everything for a week.

For five days.

She wanted to save about 5 or 10 people.

She ended up saving about 170 people.

Some of them were children and pregnant women who had been outside.

So she is a just an angel.

When it was that cold, I went home to put the key to turn to unlock the door.

Yes.

Was it frozen?

My my hand froze by being out for no more than a minute.

Yes, and I was.

This is like ridiculous because I went home and I was like, what's wrong?

What's wrong?

So imagine somebody lying out there.

- I went into the closet and said, "This is ridiculous."

And I didn't do the extreme of what Candace did - Okay.

- and put people, but I started pulling coats, and sweaters, - Oh, yes.

- and blankets.

And then went out on the street - To distribute them.

- to distribute, because, - Yes.

- they were gonna freeze to death.

- They would freeze to death.

- I mean, if my hand froze in less than 30 seconds trying to get a key in the door.

- Yes, right.

- which was frozen, then what are you gonna do out here?

So you've given steps.

And the wonderful thing, the best thing that I enjoyed in the book is you give us workshop lessons.

A workbook lesson.

- Yeah, worksheets at the end of each chapter.

- That you can share.

- Yes.

- Do you think, this is what I think, this ought to be in schools.

This ought to be in schools because this world, this society, this TikTok world we're living in, we're so off.

- We're more polarized.

And we're kids are getting more isolated and disconnected from each other.

- Yes, that's right.

- And this is to help bring us more together.

- That's right.

It's also I think it's just the, you know, all of these principles are things that we all should learn.

We all don't learn.

But I say that kindness and compassion are like muscles.

The more you use them, the stronger they get.

And so if kids are taught this early and they practice it, in fact, in my own life, I try to do either an act of kindness or compassion daily to just keep it forefront in my mind.

- So which one is the hardest?

Which of your four principles?

- Forgiveness.

- That's the hardest?

- Forgiveness is the hardest.

- Which is the simplest?

Is it which is.

Kindness is takes action for you to do something?

Maybe feeling compassion for someone or maybe empathy.

Although I had one lady who told me empathy was the hardest for her to put herself in someone else's.

Shoes, did you did you explain to her, see this is where I found absolute beauty.

Okay, when you talk about in the book how Roger would look at a movie.

and the movie, the storyline of the movie, the motion of the movie, the feel of the movie gave him an empathy of, that's an experience I don't know, - Yes.

- I didn't have, - Yes.

- but I can relate to.

- Right.

- So I thought that was most interesting.

- Yes.

- So do you still see that in the movies?

- I do.

- That the movies give us, and maybe the theater gives us that?

- I do and I love it.

I love going to plays that show me something about someone's life that's different than mine so I can have an understanding of it.

I love to go to a movie that takes me to a whole different world, or maybe someone who I think is a difficult character, but you find out why that character is different.

So that when you meet someone like that in your own life, you think, "Oh, I know a little bit about that, I can have empathy for that person."

- So what's your favorite movies?

Name your three favorites?

- Okay, I was not prepared to do that today because after talking about empathy, and compassion, and kindness, my favorite movie is "A Clockwork Orange", A Clockwork Orange, which is a very difficult movie.

It was a Stanley Kubrick movie.

It was banned in England for a while because of the violence of the movie, but it became my favorite movie at a time, I think, when I was either in college or graduate school and I was taking psychology courses and I was doing so it's there's a really there's a good reason why.

It's one of my favorite movies.

By people.

But people think, oh, how can you talk about compassion and kindness?

And like A Clockwork Orange?

Okay.

They're not mutually.

Exclusive.

So number two, what's your second favorite most famous?

I don't.

You know, I can't tell you that today.

I can't, because I have a list of movies that I love.

What was Roger's face?

Let me see some of some of Spike Lee's movies are are some of my favorites.

I love movies by, any movie about someone, about people being good or being kind are my favorite.

I can tell you categories of movies that I like, movies where people are helping to uplift other people.

I used to love some of the Ossie Davis and Ruby.

Dee oh yeah.

Movies, and they're very.

Emotional.

They are.

Emotional.

And people going in and helping other people.

So I can give you categories.

But I wasn't prepared to talk about, my favorite movies today.

Because you think I wasn't going to ask you a question about movies, and.

I should have been.

Chaz Ebert.

She's our guest today.

She's got a wonderful book.

It's Time to Give A Feck.

And it talks about principles.

Principles that we should all live by, make us a better world.

I want this book to go to Donald Trump.

That's what I'd like for you to do.

I'd like for you to give him an autographed copy.

I would love to give him a copy.

Im Hermene Hartman with Ndigo Studio.

For more information about this show, follow us on Facebook or Twitter.

Funding for this program was provided by Illinois Student Assistance Commission, the Chicago Community Trust, Sin City Studios, Lamborghini Chicago, Gold Coast, and Downers Grove.

Blue Cross, Blue Shield of Illinois, Commonwealth Edison, and the Illinois Health Plan.

N'digo Studio.