♪ MUSIC REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM THE HEALY FOUNDATION, TAOS, NM.

>>LORENE: I'M LORENE MILLS AND WELCOME TO REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

I AM DELIGHTED TO INTRODUCE OUR GUEST, CHERYL ALTERS JAMISON, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>CHERYL: HI, I AM SO HAPPY TO BE BACK WITH YOU, LORENE.

IT'S A GREAT PLEASURE, ALWAYS.

>>LORENE: YOU ARE ONE OF AMERICA'S PREMIERE FOOD WRITERS AND A COOKBOOK AUTHOR, FOOD EXPERT, RADIO HOST, YOU HAVE HAD OVER FIVE YEARS YOUR SHOW, "HEATING IT UP."

WHAT I LOVE ABOUT YOUR IS THAT YOUR TAGLINE IS "EXCITED ABOUT FOOD" AND YOU CREATE JOY, YOU CELEBRATE LIFE IN COOKING AND FOOD AND YOU GET PEOPLE WHO COULD CARE LESS EXCITED ABOUT FOOD.

SO, IT IS A WONDERFUL MISSION TO BE ON, WELCOME.

>>CHERYL: THANK YOU, IT'S A PLEASURE AND IT IS ALWAYS FUN TO TALK ABOUT FOOD AND BEING EXCITED ABOUT IT.

>>LORENE: YES.

WELL, WE ARE GOING TO EXTEND OUR USUAL CONVERSATION FROM YOUR BOOKS AND EVERYTHING TO WHAT IS HAPPENING IN A VERY IMPORTANT INTERNATIONAL TREND WHERE THE VALUE AND THE INFLUENCE AND THE POWER OF THE CULINARY ARTS AND WRITING IS GETTING INTO SOCIAL JUSTICE AND FOOD JUSTICE ISSUES.

>>CHERYL: YES.

>>LORENE: BUT FIRST.

LET'S WAVE OUR LITTLE POMPOMS AND SAY HOSANNA BECAUSE YOU HAVE WON FOUR JAMES BEARD FOUNDATION AWARDS.

YOUR BOOKS HAVE SOLD OVER TWO MILLION COPIES.

A LOCAL MAGAZINE CALLED EDIBLE NEW MEXICO TWICE HAS MADE YOU A LOCAL HERO AND THE BEST FOOD WRITER.

YOU ARE AN AUTHORITY ON AMERICAN CUISINE, SHOW ME THE CLASSIC BOOK ABOUT... >>CHERYL: OH, THE CLASSIC BOOK IN AMERICAN CUISINE WAS THIS ONE I HAVE TO SAY, AMERICAN HOME COOKING AND IT DID WIN US ONE OF OUR BEARD AWARDS AS WELL AS THE INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF CULINARY PROFESSIONALS AWARD, WHICH IS THE OTHER BIG ONE IN THE FIELD.

>>LORENE: OH WOW, GREAT, GREAT.

OH AND I LOVE THAT THEY CALL YOU THE QUEEN OF CULINARY CONTENT.

>>CHERYL: AT SANTAFE.COM, THAT'S FUN, YES.

>>LORENE: YOU DO A LOT OF WORK WITH KIDS, YOU REALLY SUPPORT COOKING WITH KIDS, YOU DO WORKSHOPS COOKING WITH KIDS.

WHAT FUN, IT'S SO EMPOWERING FOR A KID.

>>CHERYL: I THINK SO.

I JUST REALLY WANT CHILDREN TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A GOOD EXPERIENCE WITH FOOD.

I WAS LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE THAT MYSELF AS A CHILD WITH MY GRANDPARENTS AND MY PARENTS, TOO.

WE HAD THE BIG GARDENS AND WE COOKED FRESH FOOD, OH, WE CERTAINLY HAD FAST FOOD AND THINGS TOO, WE WERE FASCINATED WITH SOME OF THOSE THINGS WHEN THEY BECAME AVAILABLE.

BUT, I HAD THAT EXPERIENCE THAT I WANT KIDS TO HAVE TODAY OF BEING ABLE TO COOK FOR THEMSELVES.

THEY DON'T TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES.

ALSO JUST KNOW THE JOY THAT YOU CAN HAVE BEING AROUND THE TABLE WITH YOUR FAMILY AND YOUR FRIENDS.

>>LORENE: YES, ABSOLUTELY.

I WOULD LIKE YOU TO GO THROUGH SOME OF YOUR BOOKS PARTICULARLY SPICE AND SMOKE , SMOKE AND SPICE.

>>CHERYL: OH YES, SMOKE AND SPICE .

YES, THAT'S ANOTHER ONE.

>>LORENE: BECAUSE YOU WROTE THAT WITH YOUR LATE HUSBAND.

>>CHERYL: THAT IS CORRECT.

>>LORENE: AND BON APPETIT MAGAZINE CALLED YOU AND BILL, THE KING AND QUEEN OF GRILLING AND SMOKING.

SO, WE'LL SHOW THAT ONE A LITTLE BIT LONGER AND TELL US WHAT YOU DID IN THIS BOOK AND WHY IT IS KIND OF A BIBLE FOR ANYONE WHO DOES SMOKING, YOU KNOW LIKE IN A SMOKER OR BARBEQUE IN ANY FORM.

>>CHERYL: WELL THIS BOOK HAS BEEN OUT SINCE THE EARLY 1990S NOW AND BACK AT THAT TIME, BARBEQUE WAS REALLY KIND OF DYING AMERICAN ART.

PEOPLE WERE FOCUSED ON FASTER THINGS AND THE HEALTH DEPARTMENTS WERE COMING DOWN ON BARBEQUE JOINTS BECAUSE THEY WERE CONSIDERED NOT AS CLEAN BECAUSE OF HOW THEY COOKED, THAT'S CRAZY BUT YOU KNOW THERE WERE JUST THINGS THAT WERE WORKING AGAINST ALL OF IT.

AND IN OUR RUSH TO GET THINGS ON THE TABLE PEOPLE WEREN'T REALLY LOOKING AT THIS IN A VERY SERIOUS WAY AND BILL AND I THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, WE JUST NEED TO CELEBRATE THIS GREAT AMERICAN ART.

IT IS AN AMAZING COOKING FORM AND IT IS DIFFERENT THAN HIGH HEAT GRILLING, REAL TRUE BARBEQUE GOES LOW AND SLOW, WITH SMOLDERING WOOD, TO MAKE THINGS LIKE TEXAS BRISKET AND CAROLINA PULLED PORK AND THE RIBS THAT YOU FIND MAYBE IN MEMPHIS OR KANSAS CITY, TOO.

WE REALLY WANTED TO CELEBRATE ALL THAT BEFORE THIS WONDERFUL ART DIED OUT.

IT SEEMED LIKE IT REALLY MIGHT BE DESTINED, YOU KNOW, TO BECOME ENDANGERED AT THAT POINT AND WHAT HAS HAPPENED THOUGH IS THAT WE KIND OF HIT A WAVE WITH THIS WHERE PEOPLE DID GET MORE INTERESTED IN OLD AMERICAN ART FORMS AND COOKING FORMS, SLOW FOOD AND THINGS AND BEGAN TO APPRECIATE THIS.

AND THE YOUNGER CHEFS COMING IN THOUGHT THAT THIS WAS REALLY A GREAT WAY TO COOK AND ALL OF A SUDDEN IT HAS BECOME ONE OF THE HOTTEST THINGS OUT THERE.

AND WHEN I TALK TODAY TO OTHER PEOPLE ABOUT, OH, THIS WAS ALMOST DYING OUT AND LITERALLY, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE OF DECADES AGO, IT'S A DIFFERENT WORLD NOW AND I AM SO HAPPY TO SEE THAT BEING THE CASE.

>>LORENE: I AM ALSO GLAD THAT IT IS NOT ONLY LIMITED TO CHARCOAL GRILLING WHICH HAS ITS OWN VIRTUES, BUT THE GAS GRILLS MADE IT REALLY EASY AND MORE INSTANT THAN PEOPLE STARTING THE CHARCOAL, THREE HOURS BEFOREHAND AND ALL OF THAT.

>>CHERYL: RIGHT AND THERE IS SOMETHING FOR EVERYBODY, I STILL USE A CHARCOAL GRILL, I STILL USE A GAS GRILL SOME NIGHTS, I MEAN ON A WEDNESDAY EVENING, IT IS HARD TO BEAT THAT WHEN YOU GET DONE WITH WORK, YOU KNOW, AND YOU ARE JUST TRYING TO GET DINNER ON THE TABLE.

BUT I HAVE A WOOD BURNING FIREPLACE AND I USE OUTDOOR SMOKERS AND ALL KINDS OF THINGS, THEY ALL MAKE GREAT FOOD IN THEIR OWN WAY.

>>LORENE: ANOTHER BELOVED BOOK IS TEXAS Q .

YOU TAKE THE BEST RECIPES FROM TEXAS, TRADITIONAL BARBEQUE AND PUT THEM IN THERE.

>>CHERYL: RIGHT, THIS WAS A LOOK MORE RECENTLY WITH THE OLD ART OF BARBEQUE BUT IN A NEW KIND OF WAY.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS HAPPENED OVER THE NUMBER OF YEARS SINCE WE FIRST WROTE SMOKE AND SPICE TOGETHER AND THIS BOOK, TEXAS Q , WAS ON MY OWN, IS THE DIVERSITY THAT HAS GROWN UP IN THE BARBEQUE CULTURE AND THE STRONGER INFLUENCE AND RECOGNITION OF THE BLACK, THE AFRICAN AMERICAN EXPERIENCE IN BARBEQUE ESPECIALLY AS IT CAME INTO EASTERN TEXAS.

AND THE VIETNAMESE KIND OF INFLUENCE IN IT THAT'S COME IN FROM THE TEXAS COAST AND SUCH, THERE ARE JUST ALL KINDS OF THINGS.

PEOPLE RECOGNIZE, I THINK, FOR A LONG TIME THE CENTRAL EUROPEAN AND EASTERN EUROPEAN INFLUENCES LIKE GERMAN INFLUENCE ON THE TEXAS BARBEQUE, SAUSAGES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

>>LORENE: OH YEAH.

>>CHERYL: BUT, THERE HAS BEEN THIS EXPLOSION IN THE OTHER INFLUENCES THAT ARE BEING RECOGNIZED TODAY AND I REALLY WANTED TO CELEBRATE ALL OF THAT.

>>LORENE: WELL, I ALSO WANT TO CELEBRATE YOUR LATE HUSBAND BILL, BECAUSE TOGETHER YOU WROTE 18 BOOKS, AND YOU WERE THE KING AND QUEEN OF GRILLING AND SMOKING.

>>CHERYL: WE HAD A GREAT RUN TOGETHER, YES, I'M SO FORTUNATE.

YOU AND I WERE BOTH SO LUCKY THAT WE HAD THESE GREAT MEN IN OUR LIVES.

>>LORENE: YES.

>>CHERYL: NOT EVERYBODY GETS THAT EXPERIENCE EVER.

>>LORENE: EVER.

>>CHERYL: WE HAD GOOD, GOOD LONG RUNS WITH THESE WONDERFUL MEN THAT I KNOW WE BOTH STILL MISS TO THIS DAY, BUT... >>LORENE: I THINK THEY WOULD BE PROUD OF BOTH OF US.

>>CHERYL: I HOPE SO, I THINK SO TOO.

>>LORENE: ONE OTHER PERSON THAT WAS AN INFLUENCE IN YOUR LIFE, GOVERNOR BILL RICHARDSON, APPOINTED YOU NEW MEXICO'S FIRST CULINARY LIAISON AND YOU PUT TOGETHER THE GREEN CHILE CHEESEBURGER TRAIL.

>>CHERYL: THAT'S RIGHT, THAT WAS ONE OF MY PROJECTS.

>>LORENE: PEOPLE ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME CHILE CHEESEBURGER TRAIL, WHAT'S YOUR FAVORITE OR CAN YOU SAY?

>>CHERYL: OH MY GOODNESS, I HAVE A LOT OF FAVORITES, GOODNESS.

WELL, OKAY, ONE WOULD BE SPARKY'S DOWN IN HATCH, I LOVE GOING DOWN THERE FOR THAT.

THE MONTE CARLO STEAKHOUSE IN ALBUQUERQUE IS ANOTHER FAVORITE.

UP HERE I LOVE THE FOLKS THAT NOW HAVE THE SANTA FE BITE.

THERE ARE A LOT OF GOOD BURGERS AROUND, I MEAN THERE ARE SO MANY GOOD ONES AND ALL THAT, BUT IF I HAD TO JUST PICK THREE, THERE YOU GO.

>>LORENE: OH GOOD.

>>CHERYL: I'LL BE IN TROUBLE WITH SOMEBODY I KNOW.

>>LORENE: I KNOW, I KNOW.

>>CHERYL: BUT THOSE ARE ALL WORTHY ONES QUITE DEFINITELY.

YOU KNOW, IF I COULD SAY ONE MORE THING ABOUT THAT BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS, THE REASON THAT GOVERNOR BILL PUT ME IN THAT POSITION WAS I HAD BEEN TALKING TO HIM ABOUT THE FACT THAT NEW MEXICO HAS SUCH A STRONG CULINARY HERITAGE AND FOOD CULTURE AND ALL OF THAT AND THAT WASN'T BEING PROMOTED BY OUR TOURISM FOLKS OR VERY WELL UNDERSTOOD BY A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE IN THE FOOD WORLD AT THAT TIME.

AND SOME PLACES LIKE CALIFORNIA AND LOUISIANA WERE STARTING TO DO A GREAT JOB OF PROMOTING THEIR FOOD AND THEIR CULINARY RESOURCES AND THEIR CHEFS, SO I THOUGHT WE HAVE GOT TO CATCH UP.

WE HAVE AN EVEN BETTER SITUATION TO BE ABLE YOU KNOW TO PROMOTE AND TO DISCUSS AND TALK ABOUT AND THEN AGAIN CELEBRATE.

>>LORENE: AND IT IS TRUE AND YOU WERE PART OF THE TOURISM DEPARTMENT THEN AS THE CULINARY LIAISON AND IT HAS REALLY WORKED BECAUSE NOW WHEN WE HAD THE LITERARY FESTIVAL HERE IN MAY, THEY POINTED OUT THAT FOOD, SANTA FE IS ON THE MAP FOR ITS FOOD AS WELL AS FOR ITS LITERATURE AND YOU HAD A LOT TO DO WITH THAT.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I AM HOPING WE CAN TALK ABOUT TODAY IS HOW THE CULINARY ARTS AND CULINARY WRITING HAS SUDDENLY SHIFTED IN ITS POWER AND INFLUENCE TO A MUCH MORE POLITICAL, FOOD JUSTICE, SOCIAL JUSTICE, AND IT IS ALSO THE WRITING THAT USED TO BE THE SCIENCE, WE'LL WRITE THIS RECIPE AND NOT JUST ALL THE SCIENCE OF THE RECIPE BUT THE ART OF WRITING ABOUT IT, THE ART OF SPARKING PEOPLE'S IMAGINATION.

>>CHERYL: AND THE STORIES BEHIND IT ALL AND TO ME THAT IS PART OF THE FASCINATION WITH IT, I AM GLAD THAT YOU MENTIONED ART AND SCIENCE, TOO.

BECAUSE THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT DOING COOKBOOKS, IS THAT YOU HAVE THIS GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO PUT THINGS TOGETHER IN THE KITCHEN AND ALL TO MAKE PEOPLE SO HAPPY WITH THAT, BUT THE STORIES ARE SO MUCH RICHER THAN JUST THE RECIPES THEMSELVES.

THAT'S FINALLY BEING RECOGNIZED IN A BIGGER WAY.

THIS HAS BEEN A TREND FOR A LONG TIME BUT IT JUST FINALLY I THINK SHIFTED, YOU KNOW, THERE COMES A POINT - THE TIPPING POINT IT IS OFTEN CALLED AND IT IS GREAT TO SEE SOMETHING LIKE THAT HAPPEN AND TO SEE CHEFS AND OTHER CULINARY FOLKS IN REAL POSITIONS OF AUTHORITY TO MAKE SOME CHANGES.

CHEF JOSE ANDRES, LET'S TAKE HIM AS AN EXAMPLE.

>>LORENE: WORLD CENTRAL KITCHEN.

>>CHERYL: YES.

>>LORENE: WHAT A HERO.

>>CHERYL: OH, DEFINITELY.

WHAT AN ACCOMPLISHED CHEF HE WAS AND MOST OF HIS RESTAURANTS ARE IN THE WASHINGTON DC AREA ALTHOUGH HE'S EXPANDED INTO LAS VEGAS AND LOS ANGELES LIKE CHEFS DO, BUT WHEN THINGS WERE GOING CRAZY DOWN IN PUERTO RICO YEARS AND YEARS AGO WITH THE HURRICANE DOWN THERE AND GOVERNMENT JUST SEEMED TO BE PARALYZED IN TERMS OF HELPING PEOPLE.

YEAH, HE JUST REALIZED WE CAN HELP FEED PEOPLE, I AM GOING TO TALK TO MY CHEF FRIENDS DOWN THERE, WE ARE JUST GOING TO START DOING THIS.

ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS TO GET OUT THERE, WE DON'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH A WHOLE BUNCH OF BUREAUCRACY, LET'S JUST START MAKING FOOD AND THERE WAS A LOT OF FOOD THAT WAS STORED THAT WAS JUST GOING TO GO BAD OTHERWISE TOO, AND JUST BRILLIANT IDEAS AND NOW HE IS DOING IT ALL OVER THE WORLD.

>>LORENE: IT IS INTERESTING THAT GOVERNMENTS WHICH ARE USUALLY VERY COMPULSIVE-OBSESSIVE ABOUT FOLLOWING THE REGULATIONS WHEN THERE WAS TROUBLE IN UKRAINE, WHEN THERE WAS AN EARTHQUAKE IN HAITI, THEY JUST SAID, "BRING IT ON," AND HE CAN SHOW UP AND FEED 40,000 PEOPLE AND IT JUST TAKES SOME OF THE GRIEF AND PAIN AWAY...BUT TO HAVE A FULL STOMACH AND TO HAVE GRIEF AND LOSS, A HOT MEAL LOVINGLY PREPARED FOR YOU AND TREATS FOR THE KIDS, IT IS JUST SUCH A GREAT-HEARTED THING TO DO.

>>CHERYL: THAT'S TRUE AND I WANT TO GIVE A SHOUT OUT HERE TO OUR OWN SANTA FE COMMUNITY COLLEGE AND PEOPLE LIKE SEAN SINCLAIR WHO IS THE CHEF OVER AT THE CASTANEDA IN LAS VEGAS, BECAUSE THOSE FOLKS PARTNERED WITH JOSE ANDRES AND WORLD CENTRAL KITCHEN WHEN WE WERE HAVING THOSE HORRENDOUS FIRES BACK IN MAY AND INTO EARLY JUNE AND SUCH AND AGAIN THEY WERE ON THE GROUND PARTNERING WITH PEOPLE WHO ALREADY WERE HERE AND KNOW PEOPLE AND SYSTEMS AND WHERE TO GET THINGS TOO.

AND THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS THEY HAVE BEEN SO SUCCESSFUL IS THESE PARTNERSHIPS WITH LOCAL FOLKS WHO REALLY KNOW AND CARE.

>>LORENE: AND WHAT I LOVED ABOUT THAT WAS IF YOUR HOUSE BURNED DOWN OR IF YOUR HOUSE DIDN'T BURN DOWN, IF YOU WERE A FIREFIGHTER, IF YOU WERE EVACUATED FROM YOUR HOUSE, THERE WERE NO QUESTIONS ASKED.

>>CHERYL: NO.

>>LORENE: COME AND EAT WITH US.

>>CHERYL: YES AND SIT AROUND THE TABLE AND HAVE THIS COMMUNAL EXPERIENCE THAT WE CAN HAVE, THAT WE CAN SHARE FOOD AROUND A TABLE.

>>LORENE: WE ARE SPEAKING TODAY WITH CHERYL ALTERS JAMISON ABOUT THE CULINARY ARTS, WRITING ABOUT THE CULINARY ARTS, AND HOW IT IS STARTING TO BE A LITTLE MORE TRANSFORMATIVE.

SO, IN MAY THERE WAS THE LITERARY FESTIVAL HERE AND IT IS THE FIRST LITERARY EVENT THAT HAD A WHOLE BLOCK ON THE CULINARY ARTS AND HOW IMPORTANT IT WAS AND THERE WERE SOME PEOPLE HERE THAT WERE SO IMPRESSIVE TO ME.

I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO TALK ABOUT ASMA KHAN AND THEN ALSO BRYANT TERRY AND ANYONE ELSE.

>>CHERYL: THERE WERE SUCH WONDERFUL FOLKS THAT CAME IN FOR THAT AND I WANT TO GIVE CREDIT TO JULIA LEONARD AND CLARE HERTEL WHO WERE THE MAIN ORGANIZERS OF THE SANTA FE LITERARY FESTIVAL.

AND THE WORK THAT THOSE FOLKS DID WITH SOME OTHER PEOPLE, TOO, BUT THEY REALLY STAND OUT AT THE TOP OF ALL OF THIS.

IT WAS PARTIALLY THEIR UNDERSTANDING THAT FOOD AND THE CULINARY ARTS ARE AN IMPORTANT VOICE AND ALL IN THIS CONVERSATION THESE DAYS AND I WAS SO PLEASED WHEN THEY CAME AND SAID THEY WANTED SOMEONE LIKE ME TO BE A PART OF THIS LITERARY FESTIVAL.

>>LORENE: OH NO, THEY WERE DELIGHTED.

>>CHERYL: I WAS HONORED, VERY HONORED.

AND THEN THEY REACHED OUT, WE HAD GOOD PEOPLE FROM THE AREA LIKE DEBORAH MADISON, AND LYNN CLINE, YOU KNOW WONDERFUL AUTHORS FROM THIS SPOT TOO.

BUT ALSO THEN BRINGING IN SOME FOLKS LIKE ASMA KAHN FROM LONDON NO LESS, SHE HAS A RESTAURANT THERE CALLED DARJEELING EXPRESS AND SHE WENT TO LONDON FROM INDIA.

SHE HAS IN HER KITCHEN WOMEN WHO ARE CONSIDERED SECOND DAUGHTERS AND SHE HAS A FOUNDATION CALLED THE SECOND DAUGHTERS FOUNDATION.

WOMEN ARE MUCH LESS VALUED IN INDIAN SOCIETY THAN MEN TRADITIONALLY, CHILDREN, GIRL BABIES AND SUCH.

AND THESE ARE WOMEN WHO REALLY DIDN'T HAVE ANY ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY WHERE THEY WERE BECAUSE THEY WERE THE SECOND DAUGHTER AND FOR HEAVEN SAKES, WHAT DO YOU DO WITH ONE OF THOSE?

>>LORENE: OH YEAH.

>>CHERYL: HER WHOLE KITCHEN AT HER RESTAURANT IS STAFFED BY WOMEN IN THIS KIND OF POSITION AND THEY JUST PUT OUT AMAZING FOOD.

AND HER FOUNDATION SUPPORTS WOMEN LIKE THE SECOND DAUGHTERS, BUT ALSO WOMEN WHO ARE DISENFRANCHISED FOR VARIOUS REASONS IN OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD TOO.

IN FACT, SHE HAS BEEN HELPING SET UP SOME KIND OF SOUP KITCHEN, DINING FACILITY, WHATEVER, IN IRAQ AT THE TIME THAT SHE WAS SUPPOSED TO COME HERE.

AND THE STATE DEPARTMENT WAS QUESTIONING WHY SHE HAD BEEN HERE AND WHAT SHE WAS DOING AND ALL OF THAT, SHE WAS DOING THIS AMAZING HUMANITARIAN WORK TO DO THIS SORT OF THING AND FORTUNATELY, MARTIN HEINRICH'S OFFICE, SENATOR HEINRICH'S OFFICE STEPPED IN AND CUT THE RED TAPE AND GOT THAT TAKEN CARE OF SO THAT SHE COULD BE HERE AND TELL US ALL THIS INSPIRING STORY OF WHAT SHE'S MANAGED TO DO WITH THIS LITTLE RESTAURANT OF HERS.

SO THAT IS JUST ONE EXAMPLE.

>>LORENE: AND THE OTHER EXAMPLE, BRYANT TERRY.

>>CHERYL: YES.

>>LORENE: HE DID OFFER AS PART OF THE LITERARY FESTIVAL IN THE CULINARY SECTION, YOU COULD ACTUALLY HAVE LUNCH WITH SOME OF THESE PEOPLE.

>>CHERYL: THAT'S RIGHT, YES.

YES, LUNCH OR TEA.

>>LORENE: SO I WENT TO BRYANT TERRY'S WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL LUNCH, I HAD NO IDEA WHAT HE WAS GOING TO SPEAK ABOUT.

HE WROTE A BOOK CALLED BLACK FOOD.

>>CHERYL: BLACK FOOD IS THE MOST RECENT ONE AND THE ONE THAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THAT DAY.

HE HAS A COUPLE OF OTHERS, HE IS A VEGAN AND WAS SERVING VEGAN FOOD AND SHOWING US HOW DELICIOUS THAT CAN BE.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>CHERYL: THE FRIED OKRA WAS FABULOUS, I REMEMBER THAT IN PARTICULAR.

THERE WAS SWEET POTATO PIE AND ALL THESE OTHER WONDERFUL THINGS THAT ARE IN HIS BOOK, BLACK FOOD .

AND YES, HE HAS BEEN SOMEBODY VERY INVOLVED IN SOCIAL JUSTICE REALLY ON BOTH COASTS AND HE HAS A PROGRAM THAT HE HAS WORKED WITH THAT'S A LITTLE BIT LIKE WE WERE DESCRIBING WITH COOKING WITH KIDS.

I THINK IT IS MOSTLY AFTER SCHOOL PROGRAM THAT HE HAD SET UP IN NEW YORK TO GET KIDS INVOLVED IN THE GROWING OF FOOD AND THE MAKING OF FOOD AND THE FEEDING OF THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES AND ALL.

IT HAS BEEN HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL THERE, JUST INVOLVED IN A LOT OF OTHER THINGS CONNECTED TO AREAS THAT DON'T HAVE ANY FOOD RESOURCES VERY WELL.

WE CALL THEM FOOD DESERTS SOMETIMES WHEN THERE IS NO ACCESS TO FRESH AND LOCAL FOOD AND EVERYBODY DESERVES THAT.

>>LORENE: YES, YES.

THE WHOLE THING ABOUT HIS BEING AN ADVOCATE FOR FOOD JUSTICE.

A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE WHAT IS GOING ON, I MEAN LOOK AT SANTA FE.

WE HAVE ALL THESE WONDERFUL SPECIALTY MARKETS AND THERE IS NO FOOD DESERT HERE, BUT THERE ARE A LOT IN INNER CITY AREAS WHERE YOU CAN'T GET A VEGETABLE TO SAVE YOUR LIFE WHICH IT PROBABLY WOULD DO.

AND SO TO REALIZE THE BIGGER PICTURE AND TO REALIZE THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY BE INVOLVED AND HELP.

I WAS COMPLETELY, HE REALLY DELIGHTED AND ASTONISHED ME AND ALSO MOVED ME TO ACTION, TO NOT TAKE FOR GRANTED WHAT WE HAVE.

>>CHERYL: YEAH.

>>LORENE: AND THEN NOW THERE ARE ALL THESE PROGRAMS FOR THE FARM TO TABLE, FARM TO SCHOOL... >>CHERYL: I WAS JUST THINKING, TOO, WE ARE LUCKY THAT WE HAVE FOOD KIND OF ALL AROUND US, BUT IT IS EXPENSIVE AND NOT EVERYBODY HAS A LOT OF MONEY TO PUT INTO FRESH FOOD AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT OUR FARMERS MARKET HAS IS A PROGRAM THAT IS CALLED LIKE DOUBLE UP FOOD BOX.

AND IT PROVIDES THROUGH THE PROGRAM, BEEN CALLED FOOD STAMPS, I AM FORGETTING THE NAME OF IT RIGHT NOW.

ANYWAY, THERE IS MONEY THAT COMES THROUGH THEN IF PEOPLE COME AND SHOP AT THE FARMERS MARKET WHERE THEY CAN SPEND TWICE THE AMOUNT THAT THEY HAVE CREDIT FOR TWICE AMOUNT IF THEY ARE BUYING FRESH LOCAL VEGETABLES AND FRUITS AND SUCH.

IT IS WONDERFUL TO SEE THAT KIND OF THING HAPPENING SO THAT EVERYBODY HAS ACCESS TO THIS GREAT FOOD THAT WE DO HAVE BEING GROWN ALL AROUND US.

>>LORENE: AND I LIVE IN THE VILLAGE OF AGUA FRIA AND THERE IS SOMETHING, REUNITY RESOURCES.

>>CHERYL: THAT'S RIGHT.

>>LORENE: AND THEY HAVE REFRIGERATORS OF FOODS, YOU CAN JUST DRIVE UP, TAKE WHATEVER YOU WANT, SOME OF IT IS PREPARED LIKE LASAGNAS AND THINGS, BUT A LOT OF VEGETABLES, A LOT OF FRUIT, A LOT OF BABY FOOD, JUST A WHOLE LOT OF THINGS, IT IS JUST SO LOVELY THAT IT IS OFFERED TO THE COMMUNITY, NO QUESTIONS ASKED.

IF YOU NEED IT, TAKE IT.

>>CHERYL: FABULOUS.

YES.

THEY ARE GOOD FOLKS TOO.

>>LORENE: SO WE ARE LOOKING AT THIS ISSUE NOW AND LET'S LOOK AT IT IN TERMS OF THE PANDEMIC.

ARE PEOPLE PAYING MORE ATTENTION TO THIS BECAUSE A, THEY ARE COOKING MORE, B, THEY ARE READING MORE AND THEY ARE HAVING TIME TO REFLECT, LIKE WHY IS THIS IMPORTANT IN THE WORLD.

>>CHERYL: I THINK THAT HAS HAPPENED AND IT IS ONE OF THE SILVER LININGS OF THIS ROUGH PERIOD THAT WE ALL HAVE BEEN THROUGH IS THAT PEOPLE DID START COOKING MORE.

ALL THESE DELIVERY SERVICES AND THINGS THAT BECAME DECENT OPTIONS OR PICKUP SERVICES AND ALL, PEOPLE WERE AT HOME AND THEY WERE COOKING.

YOU KNOW ONE THING ABOUT BOOKS IS THAT THEY ARE RELATIVELY INEXPENSIVE, I AM NOT SAYING THAT THEY ARE DIRT CHEAP BUT YOU CAN, YES, YOU CAN CHECK BOOKS OUT OF LIBRARIES.

YOU CAN BORROW THINGS, YOU CAN TRADE THINGS AND YOU HAVE LITTLE LIBRARIES AROUND TOWN WHERE YOU CAN LEAVE A BOOK AND TAKE A BOOK AND SUCH TOO.

SO THERE ARE MANY WAYS YOU CAN GET YOUR HANDS ON BOOKS.

AND THEY ARE JUST A SMALL MICROCOSM OF SOMETHING THAT CAN TRANSPORT YOU SOME PLACE DIFFERENT OR WILL TEACH YOU OR ENCOURAGE YOU TO TRY SOMETHING NEW.

AND PEOPLE DID THAT THROUGH THE PANDEMIC.

AND ANOTHER THING THAT HAPPENED WAS THAT IT SORT OF SEEMED LIKE, OH MY GOSH, LITTLE BOOKSTORES, INDEPENDENT BOOKSTORES MIGHT, WHO HAD BEEN HAVING A ROUGH TIME FOR YEARS BECAUSE OF THE BEHEMOTH IN SEATTLE THAT WE WON'T EVEN MENTION AND OTHER THINGS IN TERMS OF ONLINE PURCHASING AND ALL.

BUT THEY HUNG IN THERE AND THE PANDEMIC I THINK MADE PEOPLE AGAIN REALIZE IT WAS IMPORTANT TO SUPPORT LOCAL BUSINESSES AND WE CAME THROUGH IT WITH THEM INTACT AND PEOPLE I THINK ARE EVEN MORE SUPPORTIVE OF INDEPENDENT BOOKSTORES AND SOME HAVE OPENED.

THERE WAS A GREAT STORY IN THE NEW YORK TIMES IN THE PAST WEEK OR TWO ABOUT THE NUMBER OF BOOKSTORES THAT HAVE OPENED THAT ARE JUST FOCUSED ON DIVERSE SUBJECTS AND IT IS SO GREAT TO SEE THAT AND I LOVE SUPPORTING BOOKSTORES.

>>LORENE: YES, YES, WELL, AND YOU ACTUALLY SUPPORT THEM BY PROVIDING BOOKS FOR THEM ALSO.

SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE NOTICED IS THAT THE COOKBOOKS AND FOOD WRITING TALK ABOUT THE RICH HUMAN CULTURE.

SO IT IS NOT JUST THE RECIPE, YOU KNOW BUT PUT IT INTO CULTURAL CONTEXT AND ALSO A LOT OF PEOPLE WRITE ABOUT THEIR MADELEINE MOMENTS, WHICH IS FROM MARCEL PROUST'S RECHERCHE DU TEMPS PERDU, REMBRANCE OF THINGS PAST, WHERE HE DIPS A MADELEINE, A LOVELY COOKIE IN SOME TEA AND HAS THIS FLOOD OF MEMORIES... >>CHERYL: YEAH, COME ALONG.

>>LORENE: PEOPLE ARE ASKING HER WHAT IS YOUR MADELEINE MOMENT, IS IT OREOS AND MILK, YOU KNOW, IT IS JUST THIS WONDERFUL WAY OF PEOPLE REALIZING HOW POWERFULLY FOOD CAN BE EVOCATIVE OF EMOTIONAL PASTS.

>>CHERYL: YES.

OH, THE EXPERIENCE I AM GOING TO CITE IS ACTUALLY ONE THAT HAPPENED AFTER BILL'S DEATH.

I HAVE ONES FROM MY CHILDHOOD THAT I COULD TELL YOU ABOUT, THE SEMINAL MOMENTS AS I WAS GROWING UP AND THINGS THAT I REMEMBER.

BUT I THINK IN THIS CONTEXT I AM GOING TO GO TO APPLE CRISP AND JOHNATHAN APPLES.

WHEN BILL DIED, I LOST BILL SEVEN YEARS AGO FROM MY LIFE AND IT WAS HARD TO FIGURE OUT HOW I WAS MOVING FORWARD.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS, OH GOSH, SUCH A HORRIBLE SURPRISE, WAS THAT WHILE I COOKED ALL MY LIFE, FOOD HAS BEEN A PART OF MY LIFE WAY BEFORE BILL CAME INTO MY LIFE.

IT WAS SO ENTWINED WITH HIM THAT WHEN HE DIED, I REALLY LOST A LOT OF THAT JOY THAT I HAVE ALWAYS TAKEN AND I DIDN'T REALLY WANT TO COOK, I DIDN'T WANT TO BE IN THE KITCHEN, IT WAS NOT THE KIND OF ENJOYABLE EXPERIENCE THAT IT HAD BEEN AND I HAD TO STRUGGLE WITH THAT.

AND IT WAS ABOUT SIX MONTHS AFTER HE DIED, I WAS AT THE SANTA FE FARMERS MARKET AND JONATHAN APPLES HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A PART OF MY MOTHER'S APPLE CRISP FROM THE MIDWEST, IT IS A COMFORT FOOD ALL MY LIFE, YOU KNOW, APPLE CRISP.

WELL JONATHAN APPLES DON'T GROW PARTICULARLY AROUND THIS AREA, BUT ONE DAY I WAS AT THE FARMERS MARKET IN SEPTEMBER AND I WILL BE DARNED IF THERE WEREN'T JONATHAN APPLES.

I THOUGHT, OKAY, I AM GETTING SOME OF THESE, I AM TAKING THEM HOME AND I CAN STILL REMEMBER YOU KNOW PEELING THESE, THE SMELL, THE FRAGRANCE OF THOSE APPLES, THE TEXTURE OF THE APPLES IN MY HAND, THE CUTTING THE SLICES, THE PUTTING THIS TOGETHER WITH THE CRUNCHY, YOU KNOW, BROWN SUGAR STREUSEL TOPPING AND IT WAS THE FIRST STEP BACK TO WHAT I LOVED AND WHO I THINK OF MYSELF BEING.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

OH, THAT'S WONDERFUL.

WELL, WE ONLY HAVE A COUPLE OF MINUTES LEFT AND YOU HAVE GIVEN US A VERY GOOD EXAMPLE OF HOW YOU ARE EXCITED ABOUT FOOD AND IT HELPS US BE EXCITED ABOUT FOOD.

BUT WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU HAVE FOR PEOPLE TO EMBRACE A NEW WAY OF THINKING ABOUT FOOD, ABOUT FOOD WRITING.

>>CHERYL: THERE IS SO MUCH GOOD WRITING OUT THERE.

I MEAN JUST START LOOKING FOR WHAT PEOPLE HAVE TO SAY.

AND IT'S BEING DONE ON A LOT OF DIFFERENT LEVELS AS I WAS THINKING ABOUT THIS AND I WAS THINKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, EVEN LIKE RESTAURANT CRITICISM.

ONE OF MY FAVORITE WRITERS OF THAT IS BILL ADDISON, WHO IS OUT OF THE LOS ANGELES AREA, HE'S WITH THE LA TIMES AND HE HAS TRAINING FROM NATALIE GOLDBERG, WHO IS IN SANTA FE.

>>LORENE: OH, MY GOODNESS.

>>CHERYL: WRITING DOWN THE BONES IS A WONDERFUL BOOK OF HERS AND THAT IS A GREAT BOOK FOR PEOPLE TO GET IF THEY ARE SERIOUS ABOUT THIS.

BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE DOING THIS WRITING IN ALL GENRES OF FOOD AND GET OUT TO YOUR INDEPENDENT BOOKSTORES, LOOK AT THEM, READ WHAT'S BEING TALKED ABOUT ONLINE, LOOK FOR SOMETHING BY ASMA KHAN, LOOK FOR SOMETHING BY BRYANT TERRY AND I HOPE YOU LOOK AT MY BOOKS TOO.

I THINK THERE IS SOME GOOD INFORMATION IN THEM AS WELL.

>>LORENE: SHOW ONE OF YOUR LAST BOOKS THAT WE CAN GET.

>>CHERYL: OH, HOW ABOUT ONE OF MY NEW MEXICO BOOKS?

>>LORENE: OH YES.

TASTING NEW MEXICO .

WHAT DID YOU DO IN THIS BOOK?

>>CHERYL: WELL, THIS BOOK WAS DONE IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE NEW MEXICO STATE CENTENNIAL, WHICH WAS 2012.

>>LORENE: OH YEAH.

>>CHERYL: SO, IT IS A FULL, YOU KNOW, RUN THROUGH OF 100 YEARS OF NEW MEXICAN FOOD, I MEAN OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF OUR NATIVE INGREDIENTS GOING BACK TO THE PUEBLOAN PEOPLE AND SUCH, WAY BEFORE THE HISPANICS AND THE ANGLOS CAME HERE.

BUT IT IS A LOOK AT ALL OF THAT BROUGHT TOGETHER OVER THE COURSE OF STATEHOOD.

>>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, OH MY GOODNESS.

ALL THESE ARE AVAILABLE IN OUR INDEPENDENT BOOKSTORES.

>>CHERYL: THAT'S TRUE.

>>LORENE: THANK YOU.

>>CHERYL: I SHOULD MENTION THE SANTA FE SCHOOL OF COOKING, TOO, BECAUSE THAT IS WHO MY WEBSITE GOES TO IF YOU GO TO "EXCITED ABOUT FOOD."

THAT'S WHERE THOSE ORDERS GO THROUGH AND THEY ARE GREAT ANOTHER GREAT INDEPENDENT SOURCE.

>>LORENE: AND THE OTHER THING I LOVE THAT YOU DO IN YOUR SANTA FE SCHOOL OF COOKING IS WORK WITH KIDS.

NOT MANY PEOPLE SUPPORT THAT AND IT IS JUST WONDERFUL AND THESE KIDS ARE EMPOWERED AND TRANSFORMED AND IT MAKES THEM KITCHEN FRIENDLY FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES.

>>CHERYL: EXACTLY.

KIDS THAT HAVE THAT EXPERIENCE AND LEARN TO, THEY'LL EAT THINGS YOU WOULD NEVER WOULD DREAM THEY WOULD WHEN THEY HAVE A CHANCE TO, THERE IS A TIME IN THE YEAR THAT EVERYBODY IS EATING ETHIOPIAN LENTILS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

YOU WOULD NEVER BELIEVE THAT ALL THESE KIDS ARE ALL EXCITED ABOUT THIS AND THEY ARE BECAUSE THEY GET TO WORK WITH IT AND COOK IT THEMSELVES AND SHARE IT WITH THEIR FRIENDS AND FAMILIES.

>>LORENE: AND PEOPLE WHO WANT MORE CAN FIND YOU ON THE RADIO AT "HEATING IT UP."

>>CHERYL: THAT'S TRUE, TWO SATURDAY AFTERNOONS ON KTRC AND ALWAYS STREAMED AND PODCAST AT SANTAFE.COM >>LORENE: OH WONDERFUL.

I WANT TO THANK YOU SO MUCH.

OUR GUEST TODAY IS CHERYL ALTERS JAMISON.

THANK YOU FOR MAKING US EXCITED ABOUT FOOD.

>>CHERYL: IT'S A PLEASURE, I ALWAYS LOVE BEING WITH YOU.

I AM ALWAYS EXCITED.

THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU DO.

THANK YOU.

>>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US TODAY ON THIS SPECIAL EDITION OF REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM THE HEALY FOUNDATION, TAOS, NM.

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