>> Chicagoland transit is facing trouble.

A combined 730 million dollar budget gap in Twenty-twenty 6 when federal COVID relief money runs out and calls from state lawmakers and transit advocates for reform.

Perhaps as drastic as merging CTA, Metra, Pace and RTA into a new regional agency.

That's an idea the current transit Is the wrong move.

The Illinois Senate Transportation Committee just wrapped up a series of 6 hearings on the importance and future of public transit.

Here's what the top Democrat and Republican on the committee told us during an interview earlier this month.

>> We need a central agency that is going to address safety, reliability, accessibility for the entire region.

And that is what is lacking right now.

And before we take any vote on funding, we need to see from the agencies.

service improvements and expansions will occur and how will they be implemented?

How can we hold them accountable for all of that?

>> I think we can all agree that the RTA or the MMA as it may be called.

Eventually does have to have control over all 3 of those service boards who up until this point have all operated almost in a silo.

>> Joining us now to talk finances, governance, service and more are Jim Derwin Ski executive director of Metro and Redden executive director of the Regional Transportation Authority.

Melinda Metzger, executive director of Pace and Tom Macomb, chief financial officer of the Chicago Transit Authority, which says its president Dorval Carter was unavailable due to health reasons.

Hope he gets well soon.

But thank you all for being here.

We appreciate it.

You all expressed concerns about this idea of creating a single regional transit agency.

The RTA has been pitching lawmakers on some more modest governance reforms.

Leanne reading, what, what new or enhanced roles might your agency take on?

We think put together kind of a collection of proposals that would be in response to the things that we hear from the tax payers and the ride is.

>> Things that would help as a collective group become more accountable and deliver the services that people depend on need and deserve.

I think the key 3 areas that we have been talking about in the Fed and customer service service space and then capital reforms in terms our pride helping the the collectively working to prioritize the capital projects and then we get working together to ensure that we have cost.

I service standards across the region that, you know, we ensure that we know what with expected to deliver.

And then we free up the skies.

The 3 operate us to actually provide those levels of service and do what they do best.

Well, Jim, to and see how about that?

You know, Metro's been talking about moving more toward a regional rail system, focus versus focusing on commuter rail.

>> You know, would more empowered RTA?

Better help use a coordinate schedules are affairs with with Pacer CTA.

Well, with that, I think right now we do a good job of ready.

It's the frequency of service that's going to drive a regional rail pattern.

The trains are the most restrictive around You know, single guideway almond.

It's the buses and where we meet downtown in Chicago.

That really makes it so that we can have a regional rail system.

I don't how the 3 agencies are working together in space.

It's really been a funding issue all these years about putting out that level of service.

I think that, you know, the criticism we've we've heard from, you know, some lawmakers saying these things have been.

You know, sort of split up into different functions.

But, you know, when the Mets for you said a Senate Transportation Committee hearing earlier this year that you are working in transit when Metra and pace came into being.

Do you think any of the issues that we've been facing now?

We're were baked into the system having, for example, Metra and pace to established under the auspices of the RTA.

You know, back in the 1980's.

Well, I think the issue has always >> Funding.

We need more funding in order to put more service out there.

But, you know, getting back the original issue when we were all together, there wasn't enough funding for the suburbs.

And that's when the suburban mayor said, wait a minute, we need to get our transit systems going.

And if you know, look back in history, all the transit systems were going bankrupt at that time.

So pace became into existence to get more The suburbs.

>> But even yeah, but still, you know, facing those funding issues, you know, to to that point today that you can't necessarily increase the frequency as much as you wish, if you don't have that, you know, on the funding question Mckown CTA.

President Carter has said, you know, you hear sometimes from reform attic advocates merger advocate specifically saying these efficiencies will create all sorts of cost savings, which, you know, Chicago Metropolitan Agency for planning itself has said is not necessarily a guarantee.

You know what, what's your take on whether there might be efficiencies to be had or is that something that people really shouldn't be banking on?

>> Thanks, Nick.

glad you asked that question.

You know, I we have looked at it and we work very well with our sister agencies here and looking for various efficiencies across the organization.

What we have looked at and we've also looked across the country.

And what we see is that we run a highly efficient organization.

Any measure that you look at, whether it's operating expense per vehicle mile per revenue hour per passenger per passenger mile.

We're leading the country.

So we're right up there against the best.

It's hard to see where those efficiencies are necessarily going to come from.

In addition, any sort of large significant merger edition of bureaucracy is going to cost something.

It hasn't been clear to us how what cost is going to be and who's going to pay for it.

>> How do you see that is as an addition of bureaucracy, I think advocates would say the ideas we've got all these different boards, all these different appointments.

Do you see potential complications in this new system?

>> Oh, absolutely.

I mean, we're an organization we've been around for 75 years or other service agencies have been around for a long time, too.

We've got a lot.

We've developed a lot over the last few years in terms of creating those efficiencies and delivering really low administrative costs relative to the service work.

>> Providing and, you know, we're looking forward to continuing that really is the comrades here said, you know, really it's a funding issue, right?

We're short on the funding side of it.

And if you want to provide that service, this region deserves that the city deserves really need to address the funding issue.

>> Well, lets talk about that.

Some of those, you know, a lot of the structural funding issues really predate the pandemic.

That sort of threw sharp relief.

One of the things that's come up a lot as the state mandate that, you know, about 50% of operating revenue comes from passenger fares.

Although there have been reprieved because of covid's impact on ridership.

Lynn Redden.

Is that something that you and your counterparts were advocating to change before COVID?

Why wouldn't wasn't really a topic of conversation prior COVID.

But I think the the >> effects of COVID have really sort of the challenges that not just the funding structure is a whole faces, but specifically around the recovery ratio, what it forces the service boards to have to do is really just put sevice out.

They way they know they can guarantee the most ride is now on 1, 1, side of that coin.

That might sound like a good goal and a good outcome.

But it really for creates one of these transit deserts and really allows and and inhibits creativity, flexibility and responsiveness to so changing demands and needs that these 3 operators might have been so it is absolutely something that we are asking the Legislature to move away from.

But we do think that those on the metrics and Tom already touched on a few of those.

We all have a lot of metrics is to show and prove that we are operating efficiently and can be held accountable.

Well, into that point, you know, gender wenske.

You've also said at some of the Senate hearings that you might have been a victim of your own success because you are running a lean system.

>> Is that a message that you are taking to lawmakers previously?

Your did sort of the the issue of COVID really throw that into sharper relief COVID accelerated everything else we saw before the pandemic.

We are already starting to see a shift of the workers into this potentially maybe a Friday leave a little early on Friday.

>> We've seen across the country and really seen it since about 2014 that put the financial pressures on us in in advance of the pandemic.

The pandemic just accelerate in all of this.

So we were really concentrating on the 50, 50 ratio at that point time because every year we are doing is making business decisions.

Hold headcount back.

Cut a couple trains or maybe get, you know, Monessen on fuel.

You get a good few.

A lot.

That was the way we're managing the buzz it from like 14 19.

The pandemic actually just accelerated.

Alison, just kind of putting a bigger perspective that the fifty-fifty ration was already running away from When we talked about that, you know, the COVID relief money that's been, you know, helping with some of the budgetary issues that the most recent RTA board meeting.

noticed that the pace has drawn down its its full of COVID relief money that it got from Congress.

What is your agency's fiscal picture right now?

>> Well, we didn't draw down the whole amount and we're investing that amount.

So it gives us more funds so that we can put more service on the street.

That's that's our goal.

And so right now, our situation is that as we proceed into 2026, we're going to be using up that money.

You might have noticed that we're putting more service on the street.

We're trying to get service out there that will be utilized by or passengers.

And we've had some success.

We just put our poll service on Dempster dumpster street and the ridership point 30% within the first year.

It's really been phenomenal.

Same thing on a bus on shoulder operates on I-fifty-five and then he's going up 600% since the beginning.

We've just put a lot of service back on that route for customers to use to to commute.

So we're taking that money and put into service for customers.

It's going to be very satisfying zip down the shoulder past a lot of cars >> You know, time to comb the CTA has been pointing out that it provides about 80% of rights in the region, but only gets about 50% of the public funding.

It is that, you know, a message that you think has been getting through is at an issue again that, you know, you've pushing before COVID, but that became more of a problem.

Yeah, that's a message that we're trying to elevate.

So we want to make sure that, you know, if there's any reforms that are being discussed and they're talking about funding that were really addressing the inequities are present in that formula that was established in 1983.

>> We provide 84% of the region's rides and that we get less than half of the funding to to support that.

And that's pretty that was based on the formula that was put in place in 1983.

So as we're talking about reform and we're talking about the funding that's needed, we really need to address the inequities that are present in that funding formula.

>> You know, one thing some critics have said is that the RTA already has the power to mandate more coordination among CTA, Metra and pace, and that it's not using it.

Leanne reading, how about that?

Well, I have to disagree.

>> There is some expectations of what the could and should do.

But there really isn't.

The actual powers do not actually exist.

And I can give some specific examples place.

You know, in the fair policy space, we are actually specifically precluded from setting phase in creating fear policy for the 3, 7, sports.

So the best we can do is kind of have some conversations and maybe make some suggestions.

There is some that's an area where the Pats could.

We could relieve some of the regional bit.

In the broader perspective that these guys and provide that full the region and allow them to implement the services.

I think that it.

We at T gets cold in almost too late in a lot of the conversations and it's to mediate a dispute at a service board request on the set of standards, a set of side of things.

If we were at the table and having a regional conversation to support and facilitate them in their individual planning, that could actually, but we believe could be advantageous and so sort of advancing into the Lea also potentially if we're successful in getting more money's time, moneys to those kind very customer focused outcomes, I think is an important thing to to do as well.

And I think it allows us to just deliver the service and hold not just the but all of us accountable for that monies that we're spending something more proactive versus reactive barreling.

what we've heard a support for this idea from Lake County Board Chair Sandy Heart is the only color county leader as well as a Cook County board.

President Toni Preckwinkle which to specifically about the merger proposal.

>> Let's hear a little bit of what President Preckwinkle had to say last year.

>> Even if our transit agencies worked together well, now.

There have been many years decades, even and which the service boards work across purposes in the system.

We now have.

There are 47 board members.

47 board members across 4 boards appointed by 21 elected officials.

That means that everyone and no one, no one is responsible.

>> I mean, that might sound like a lot of board chair board seats.

But, you know, the majority of Collier County board chairs are concerned about losing representation agency, you know, getting just one person versus Metro pace and RTA boards.

You know, given the complexity of this current structure could streamlining things benefits of urban passengers or do you start a share that concern about losing representation?

>> I am very concerned about it with cover, an area about 3500 square miles.

We'll go through 274 communities and over 80% of people live in the suburbs.

If you take that area and then say, well, it's going to be the appointing authority is not going to be in that suburban area.

It would not get the proper representation is a lot going on in the suburbs that we need to know about.

And having big isn't always better, you know that.

That's the question.

A big board that doesn't get input from the local communities is is kind of tough to I mean, Metro has quite a presence in the suburbs as well as how about the gender when same is Melinda mean the representation of the suburbs is is huge to us.

We go through 172 different communities with 243 stations.

>> And I think the way the lawmakers set this up in 1983, refined in 20 weight really deliberately made sure that everybody's voice is heard right now.

If you put it all under one organization.

>> I think that voice gets to lewd.

And I think that's a big concern for a lot of mayor's I talked to out in the suburbs.

>> To McComb, what kinds of conversations has the CTA had with Mayor Brandon Johnson?

You know what city leaders are thinking about these all the issues that transits facing right now.

Yeah.

So we've had active discussions not only with the city but also with the state legislature as well as you know, the CTA board has 4 appointees from the city of Chicago.

>> And 3 appointees from the governor of Illinois.

And I think the mayor and the mayor's office has been very engaged in this topic in recognizing some of the inequities that are present in the funding and the need for funding across the region to support the transit system that all of the residents of this region deserve to more of a funding focused versus getting into the weeds on whether there should be a merger or some sort of, you know, governance changes?

Absolutely.

Can I just jump think it's important.

I think.

>> From all at expected that we do.

It's a funding issue that we're facing.

It's not a governance issue.

And the if we've seen no evidence that the comp proposal on the table actually achieves any of the outcomes dresses any of the issues that anybody is raising about improve service and and those of the issues.

So I think it's important.

We keep that focus that it's a funding issue and that's we do recognize that with funding is probably going require some reforms.

They made some adjustments in 2008, we recognized and that's one of the reasons why we've put together some ideas of areas where we could have some rough.

All but stopping short of saying making us all into one big mega organization.

>> Well, and there's also been the the idea of a billion and a half new dollars in annual transit funding.

House Speaker Chris Chris Welch has said he doesn't expect this issue to get in results before the end of the spring session.

Whichever way it goes reading.

Are you concerned that there might be something coming in the 11th hour that lawmakers might act hastily?

Well, I would they act not hastily, but due time because even though we say we run out about federal relief, money is in 2026.

The agency is really now if we don't have funding certainty by May 2025, as we begin our budgeting process for the 2026.

Yeah, we do You know, we will have to go in a very different down, a very different pop in the pot that these guys are all going down.

Now, they've shown that they with flexible money, that they can deliver creative services and deliver new fad products.

Accessibility projects and programs for people with low incomes.

For example, new sevices out on the street.

And if we have 2 about face on all of that, if we don't have funding 70 by May 2025, we didn't have to stop talking about the unfortunate idea massive service cuts and fare increases.

And so May is added well, and, you know, there's been numerous challenges that, you know, that the agencies have been facing some, you know, more individual to others.

I know.

>> Parnas Eta's challenge has been hiring enough bus and train operators to get service levels where you wanted to Tomic on where these things stand on on staffing and on restoring some service.

Yeah, we've had a great response over the over the last couple of years.

As you know, we've embarked on really an unprecedented campaign to hire and train the workforce that's needed to operate the service.

>> For Chicago and fort for the region and over the past 2 years, we've hired over 2000 people last year were going to hire over 2000 people this year.

But half of them are bus operators that allows us to fully restore that bus service and to fully restore that rail service.

>> By the end of the year and ridership has responded.

We have seen ridership increased by 14% this year when the second fastest growing agency in the country.

Second only to a model who opened line this >> Well, you know, we've talked a bit about changing ridership patterns when people are going in regional versus commuter.

What sort of response are you seeing?

What sort changes are you seeing how he's been able to adapt to those commuter rail is affected the most nationwide are worse.

Today was 97.2% down from our from our pre-pandemic levels and what's not been established yet is a plateau.

We haven't stop seen growth know.

The thing that hasn't been established yet is a ridership pattern.

Any given day of the week.

We see new high numbers kind of scratch your Why did that happen?

You know, wasn't concert today.

There was a net.

Everybody want to go to work today.

So it's really what we've seen.

Our biggest growth is the discretionary market, not the typical 9 to 5.

It's more the people that come in but want to have that midday train regional rail model to get home or to go to a baseball game or doctor, whatever.

And we're continually seeing.

More and more on new writers like our data suggest about 25% a year right now are new to Metro.

We consider that anybody less than one year at Metro.

You know, we mentioned there was the series of hearings over the summer and the fall.

And it wasn't just, you know, merger and funding.

It was, you know, economic impact, climate benefits.

People who are transit, reliant.

>> When the Mets or do you think that the message to lawmakers about the importance of transit got through?

How do you feel like that?

Those conversations have been going?

Well, what I heard at the hearings was that everybody likes the service we provide.

They just want more of it.

So I'm hoping that's what that could prove through the lawmakers.

And I think the important part is >> that we need the funding to do that.

And we're also seeing a lot of weekend ridership resurgent late night ridership resurgence.

It's not the typical 95.

And so we need to be able to put more service out to do that.

We've got about 30 seconds left to Leanne Reading.

Are you confident lawmakers will come through with?

>> The funding that's needed here?

I certainly hope they do.

And they've proven in the past that they willing to work with us.

It's been a I think, a very open and honest conversation.

And I think they recognize the role the benefits of the transit system has because if we don't have, if we don't have the transit system in existence and even better than the one we have now, the region will not have the economic vitality that it does.

All right.

Well, I know this conversation is going to be going on for many months to come, but we thank you all for joining us.

Jim Derwin Ski of