>> IF YOU'RE LOOKING TO BUILD A NEW HOME OR BUSINESS IN CHICAGO, IT MIGHT NOT BE FURNISHED WITH NATURAL GAS.

APPLIANCES.

THAT'S IF CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS PASSED CLEAN AND AFFORDABLE BUILDINGS ORDINANCE ADVOCATES SAY THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE AIMS TO COMBAT CLIMATE CHANGE REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS.

BUT CRITICS SAY WOULD INCREASE THE COST AND RISK RELIABILITY.

JOINING US NOW WITH MORE, OUR SARA MOSCOWITZ EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE NONPROFIT CITIZENS UTILITY BOARD ALDERWOMAN MARIA WE HADN'T OF THE 40TH WARD, ONE OF THE 15 CO-SPONSORS OF ORDINANCE.

SHE ALSO CHAIRS THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AND ENERGY COMMITTEE.

ALDERMAN GILBERT, VILLEGAS 36TH WARD AND MARK WALLACE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE NONPROFIT, INDIANA, ILLINOIS, IOWA FOUNDATION FOR FAIR CONTRACTING.

WELCOME TO ALL 4 OF YOU.

ALDERWOMAN.

LET'S START WITH YOU FIRST.

HOW WOULD THIS WORK WHY FOCUS ON NEW CONSTRUCTION?

SO?

>> WE KNOW THAT WE NEED TO REDUCE OUR CARBON EMISSIONS AND WE NEED TO DO IT NOW MY ENTIRE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN KIND OF OURS, OUR SCIENCE, OUR GUIDING PEACE.

AND WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY IN THE CITY OF CHICAGO TO TAKE A FIRST STEP TOWARDS THAT WITH CABO SO NEW CONSTRUCTION IS THE EASIEST PLACE FOR US TO START WE KNOW THAT IT CLEANER.

IT'S MORE AFFORDABLE.

IT SAFER AND THERE'S A REASON SO MANY OF OUR HIGH RISE DEVELOPMENTS ALREADY USE ELECTRICITY.

SO WE'RE LOOKING TO FOLLOW IN THE FOOTSTEPS OF NEW YORK CITY IN LOS ANGELES.

AND THIS IS ALSO, AGAIN, JUST A BABY STEP TO GIVE US TIME TO PLAN OUT MORE TRANSITIONS TO CLEANER ENERGY.

CRITICS SAY, THOUGH, THAT THIS IS HAPPENING TOO FAST, NOTING THAT THIS IS DEBATE THAT SPRINGFIELD IS GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE UP IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS.

WHY TAKE THIS ON RIGHT NOW?

WE SHOULD HAVE TAKEN ON 20 YEARS AGO.

>> IT'S NOT HAPPENING TOO FAST.

WE'RE ACTUALLY WAY BEHIND WHERE WE NEED TO BE TAKE IT SOMEBODY WHO SERVES THE LAKEFRONT COMMUNITY WHERE WE DEAL WITH EROSION WHERE WE DEAL WITH FLOODING, WHERE WE'RE DEALING WITH IN MY COMMUNITY.

THAT 75% RENTERS.

WE DEAL WITH HEALTH ISSUES LIKE ASTHMA RATE PEOPLE DON'T HAVE CHOICES FOR WHAT KIND OF APPLIANCES AND ENVIRONMENTS THEY HAVE IN THEIR BUILDING.

SO WE'RE ALREADY BEHIND TIME IS NOW.

>> AS WE KNOW, THIS ORDINANCE STEMS FROM THE 2023 CHICAGO BUILDING DECARBONIZATION WORKING GROUP RECOMMENDATIONS REPORTS NOT A MOUTHFUL.

THAT IS THE WORK OF 53 TECHNICAL EXPERTS AND CIVIC ALDERMAN VILLEGAS.

WHY DO YOU THINK, THOUGH, THAT THIS ORDINANCE NEEDS FURTHER REVIEW?

YES, SO I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'VE INTRODUCED A RESOLUTION WITH ABOUT 28 SPONSORS ON THAT ARE ASKING THEN A WORKING GROUP BE FORMED WITH OF THE SUBJECT MATTER, INCLUSIVE PEOPLE'S GAS, COM AND ENVIRONMENT, ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS TO MAKE SURE THAT DOING THIS A RESPONSIBLE MANNER YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT'S WHAT'S OCCURRED IN BERKELEY, CALIFORNIA, RELATES WITH THE NIGHT NICE SOME CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS WITH THEIR RULING WAS AND ALSO JANUARY 3RD, WHERE THEY JUST AFFIRMED OTHER DECISION.

AND THEN ALSO NEW YORK, PENDING LITIGATION.

WHAT I'M SAYING IS LET'S LET THESE THE COURT CASE IN NEW YORK PLAY OUT.

LET'S FIGURE OUT WHAT'S THE PATHWAY FORWARD AND THEN GOING TO CRAFT AN ORDINANCE.

I THINK A WORKING GROUP WITH ALL THE SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS ON BOTH SIDES IS IS IS IMPORTANT BEFORE PUTTING ORDINANCE FORWARD.

I THINK THAT ORDINANCE BEING PROPOSED IS THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE.

SARAH MOSS WHATS HOW THIS ORDINANCE IMPACT COSTS FOR CONSUMERS AND HOW RISK RELIABILITY.

>> WELL, AS A CONSUMER ADVOCACY ORGANIZATION, CUB IS CONCERNED ABOUT COST FIRST AND FOREMOST, AND WE ARE DEEPLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE STATE OF AFFAIRS FOR NATURAL GAS CUSTOMERS IN THE CITY OF CHICAGO.

HAVE ACCESS TO DATA ON HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE BEHIND ON THEIR BILLS FACING DISCONNECTION, HOW MUCH THEY OWE AND WE HAVE THAT DATA BY ZIP CODE AND IT'S STAGGERING AND ALARMING.

VAST SWATHS OF THE CITY ARE ALREADY INCAPABLE OF AFFORDING TO HEAT THEIR HOMES.

MEANWHILE, PEOPLE ARE ALREADY STARTING TO DECARBONIZE THEIR HOMES IN SWITCH AWAY FROM GAS, REMOVE THEMSELVES FROM THE GAS SYSTEM AND SWITCH TO ALL ELECTRIC HEAT, WHICH IN TURN.

REDUCES THE RATE BASE AND CAN SPIRAL THE PROBLEM EVEN FURTHER AS THEY ALDERWOMAN SAID THAT BUILDINGS IN THE CITY OF CHICAGO ARE THE PRIMARY SOURCE GREENHOUSE GASES.

THIS IS A TRANSITION THAT THE STATE HAS ALREADY BEGUN THROUGH LEGISLATION TO DECARBONIZE THE ELECTRIC SECTOR.

CARBON ICING, THE GAS SECTOR IS OBVIOUS FIRST STEP NEXT STEP I SHOULD SAY AND TECHNOLOGY HAS COME A LONG WAY.

OPERATING COSTS FOR HEATING WITH ELECTRICITY VERSUS IS CHEAPER.

AND SO WE KNOW THAT THIS TRANSITION IS TAKING PLACE.

IT NEEDS TO BE DONE IN A MANAGED WAY AND IT IS ALREADY HAPPENING SO FURTHER DELAY IS NOT WARRANTED AS THEY ALDERWOMAN SAID, IT'S ALREADY WERE ALREADY BEHIND.

MARK WALLACE, WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT?

DO YOU THINK SOMETHING LIKE THIS COULD LEAVE ENOUGH OPTIONS AND BE COST EFFECTIVE IN THE LONG RUN?

>> WELL, I THINK WE WE WOULD DISAGREE WITH CUB THAT THAT THIS IS A SMART COST FACTOR.

IN FACT, WE BELIEVE THAT ALL THE STUDIES OUT THERE SHOW THAT IF YOU SWITCH FROM NATURAL GAS TO ELECTRIC CONCURRENT, TODAY'S DOLLARS IS GOING TO COST YOU 3 TIMES MORE.

A TEACHER HALL.

THE REALITY OF IT IS IS IF WE'RE NOT GOING TO JUST USE AN ORDINANCE TO PANDER TO THE ENVIRONMENTAL LEFT AND WE'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO HAVE AN ORDINANCE THAT ACTUALLY GOES AND FIXES GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS.

WHY ARE WE FOCUSING ON THE ONE PERCENT OF THE HOUSING STOPS STOCK?

THAT'S THE MOST ENERGY EFFICIENT BEING ENTERED INTO THE THE FLEET OF OVER BUILDINGS IN THE CITY OF CHICAGO.

THE REALITY OF IT IS IS THAT IF YOU TAKE SOMEONE THAT YOU WANT TO COMPARE US TO NEW YORK, WE SHOULD BE DOING THINGS LIKE OFFSHORE WIND, RIGHT DOING THAT IN THE GREAT LAKES WILL BRING TRANSMISSION.

ACTUALLY THE CITY, CHICAGO, WE SHOULD BE DOING NETWORK GEOTHERMAL SYSTEMS RIGHT SELECT IN THESE TYPES OF THINGS WE SHOULD BE DOING HERE.

BUT YORK'S ARTY MOVED FORWARD IN THEIR STATE LEGISLATURE TO APPROVE THOSE TYPES OF THINGS.

SPRINGFIELD HAS NOT APPROVED OFFSHORE WHEN THEY HAVE NOT APPROVED.

WHERE THE ORGANIZATION INTRODUCE LEGISLATION FOR GEOTHERMAL NETWORKS IN THE SINCE IN CHICAGO AND STATE OF ILLINOIS.

AND THAT WAS STOPPED IN THE STATE OF ON ICE UNTIL WE'RE GOING TO GET TO A PROGRAM TO LOWER GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS.

WE JUST THINK THIS IS THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE.

SARAH, SEE YOU SHAKING YOUR HEAD GOING TO COME BACK TO YOU IN A LITTLE BIT.

I KNOW OF.

BUT CRITICS ARE ALSO CITING, OF COURSE, THE >> ELECTRIC POWER OUTAGES.

WHEN THE WEATHER GETS EXCEPTIONALLY AND THAT NATURAL GAS IS STILL NEEDED ALDERWOMAN, WHAT OPTIONS WOULD NEW CONSTRUCTION STILL HAVE?

>> TO ADDRESS KIND OF SEVERE WEATHER CONDITIONS.

>> WILL BE DO ACTUALLY IN THIS ORDINANCE HAVE SOME EXEMPTIONS.

SO WE KNOW THAT THIS IS A FIRST STEP AND I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO KNOW.

WE'RE NOT COMING TO TAKE AWAY YOUR GAS STOVES, RIGHT?

RIGHT AWAY.

SO WE'VE GOT EXEMPTIONS FOR KIND OF EMERGENCY BACKUP SYSTEMS RESTAURANT AND KIND OF THE INDUSTRY AROUND THEIR HOSPITALS.

AGAIN, THIS IS PANDERING TO THE LEFT.

IT'S ACTUALLY PLANNING FOR THE FUTURE RIGHT?

LIKE THIS IS A FUTURE.

WE NEED TO LEAVE CHICAGO.

AND IF WE DON'T START NOW, WHERE ARE WE GOING TO BE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION AGAIN IN 20 YEARS WE'VE HAD WORKING GROUPS.

WE DON'T NEED ANOTHER ONE.

WE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER TO MAKE SENSIBLE DECISIONS.

AND SO PEOPLE STILL BE USING GAS.

PEOPLE STILL BE USING GAS FOR A LONG TIME.

I IMAGINE BECAUSE WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO WHOLESALE OVERHAUL.

EVERYONE SYSTEMS.

SO STARTING WITH ONE PERCENT OF HOUSING STOCK AT THIS POINT IS JUST THE BARE MINIMUM.

>> WELCOME TO GOES.

WHAT ELSE DO YOU THINK CHICAGO COULD BE DOING TO ADDRESS CLIMATE CHANGE?

LISTEN, YOU KNOW, WE SUPPORT TRYING TO GET TO POINT WHERE WE'RE ALL IN AGREEMENT WITH WITH THE WITH ADDRESSING CLIMATE ISSUES WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS THAT WORKING GROUP.

>> INCLUSIVE PROPONENTS AND OPPONENTS IN ORDER TO DRAFT AN ORDINANCE WAS REQUIRED BEFORE PUTTING AN ORDINANCE WITH JUST ONE SIDE.

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE WORKING GROUP IS INCLUSIVE OF COMMENT.

PEOPLE'S GAS, THE ENVIRONMENTALIST, ORGANIZED LABOR, ETCETERA, COMMENT AS READY AS WE NOTED, THAT THEY CAN'T SUPPORT SUPPORTING ANY ACTIVITIES UNDER GREAT ANYMORE.

RIGHT NOW.

SO WHEN WHEN WE TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT OCCURRED DURING THIS THEIR NEWS COAST WE SAW THAT WAS TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE THAT WERE LEFT WITHOUT ELECTRICITY.

AND SO IF THIS, IF THIS ORDINANCE HAD BEEN IN PLACE ANYONE HAD 20,000 PEOPLE WITHOUT ELECTRICITY DURING THE COLDEST TIME OF THE YEAR.

AND CARRIER WHO MAKES PUMPS HAS SAID THAT THEY RECOMMEND THAT THESE TYPES OF HE PUMPS WITH THE CURRENT TECHNOLOGY.

NOW NOT BE UTILIZED UP WHERE IT'S COLD RIGHT NOW UP IN THE NORTHEAST AS WELL AS IN MIDWEST.

>> AT THE STATE LEVEL, GOVERNOR PRITZKER SIGNED LEGISLATION LAST YEAR THAT PUTS THE STATE ON A PATH TO 100% CLEAN ENERGY BY 2050, THROUGH A MIX OF PROVIDING SUBSIDIES TO NUCLEAR PLANTS AND SETTING CLOSURE TIMELINES FOR COAL AND NATURAL GAS.

FOREIGN FACILITIES.

AMONG OTHER SARAH, HOW DO YOU THINK THE CITY'S WOULD COMPLEMENT THE STATE'S EFFORTS SO FAR?

>> THE CITY HAS AN OPPORTUNITY HERE TO BE AT THE SPEARHEAD EMBRACING THIS TRANSITION AND ACKNOWLEDGING THAT IT IS INEVITABLE AND PUTTING OURSELVES ON THE PAST TO REALLY DELIBERATELY MOVING FORWARD BECAUSE THE TRANSITION IS HAPPENING PRETENDING THAT IT'S NOT HAPPENING OR DELAYING OFFICIAL RESPONSE IN LEADERSHIP ON THIS IS THE BEST WAY TO ENSURE THE WORST POSSIBLE OUTCOMES FOR CONSUMERS.

THERE'S NO REASON RIGHT NOW.

FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION TO USE GAS?

IN ESSENCE, WHEN YOU DO THAT, YOU ARE BASICALLY CONDEMNING THE THE INHABITANTS OF THAT NEW CONSTRUCTION TO PAYING BILLS TO A UTILITY THAT MAY SOON OBSOLETE.

WHY IS ARE WE TALKING ABOUT SINKING MORE RATEPAYER FUNDS INTO A SYSTEM THAT IS DYING.

EVEN OUR OPPONENTS ARE ACKNOWLEDGING THAT CLEANER, HEALTHIER ENERGY OPTIONS ARE NECESSARY.

SO I DON'T THINK IT'S FAIR TO EXPECT US TO CONTINUE TO PAY TO EXPAND AND DOUBLE DOWN ON THIS EXPENSIVE NATURAL GAS SYSTEM WHEN WE HAVE A LOT OF REALLY GOOD OPTIONS OUT THERE ALMOST OUT OF TIME.

OUR POLL, SOME OF WHAT YOU HAVE THE LAST WORD.

DO YOU THINK THAT THERE'S ENOUGH COLLABORATION BETWEEN THE STATE AND CITY EFFORTS?

YES, I DON'T THINK THERE'S BEEN ANY COLLABORATION.

THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

>> YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE THAT HAS AN ICC COMMISSION WHACK FOR UTILITIES AT THE SAME TIME SAID LET'S STOP HIM AND REPLACE A PROGRAM IN THE CITY OF CHICAGO.

AND AT THE SAME TIME WE HAVE THE CHICAGO PUSHING ORDINANCE SAYING NO NEW NATURAL GAS, NEW CONSTRUCTION.

LET'S MOVE IT ALL TO ELECTRIC.

BUT THEN AT THE SAME TIME WE HAVE THE ICC COMMISSION SAYING NO NEW BOTH AMEREN AND COMED IN THE ENTIRE STATE OF ILLINOIS.

SO WHICH WAY DO WE WANT TO HAVE SO, NO, I THINK THE CITY OF CHICAGO AND I THINK THAT THE STATE NEEDS TO WORK IN COLLABORATION MUCH LIKE THEY'VE DONE IN PLACE NEW YORK AND SOME OTHER PLACE IN THIS COUNTRY.

AND I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT.

I THINK WE'VE BEEN READY, WILLING AND ABLE TO BE AT THE TABLE AS LABOR AND MANAGEMENT TO DECARBONIZE THIS COUNTRY AND HAVE A BETTER AND WE'RE READY, WILLING ABLE TO WORK WITH ALDERMAN BIGGEST ANYONE ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE NOT ALL GOING TO AGREE TODAY, BUT I'M SURE YOU ALL KEEP WORKING ON