OFFICERS MUST ACTIVATE BODY-CAMERAS TO RECORD PURSUITS IN FULL AND PROHIBITS FOOT-PURSUITS STEMMING FROM MINOR TRAFFIC OFFENSES.

AND JOINING US WITH THEIR TAKE ARE ROBERT BOIK FROM THE CHICAGO POLICE DEPARTMENT, HE IS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF CONSTITUTIONAL POLICING AND REFORM.

AREWA KAREN WINTERS A CO-CHAIR OF THE COMMUNITY WORKING GROUP THAT WAS ASSEMBLED TO PROVIDE COMMUNITY INPUT ON POLICE REFORM.

RETIRED POLICE OFFICER RICHARD WOOTEN FOUNDER OF GATHERING POINT COMMUNITY COUNCIL AND NUSRAT CHOUDHURY LEGAL DIRECTOR AT THE A.C.L.U.

OF ILLINOIS.

WELCOME ALL OF YOU BACK TO "CHICAGO TONIGHT."

ROBERT BOIK THE FIRST QUESTION I HAVE WHEN LOOKING AT THIS LIST OF RULES IT IS A LOT OF THINGS FOR OFFICERS TO KEEP IN MIND.

LIKE A CHECKLIST IN A SITUATION THAT COULD BE HEAT OF THE MOMENT.

HOW IS AN OFFICER ABLE TO GO THROUGH THESE THINGS WHEN DECIDING WHETHER OR NOT TO ENGAGE?

>> ONE THING THAT POLICY PRIORITIZES IS NOT ONLY OFFICER SAFETY BUT SAFETY FOR THE COMMUNITY AS WELL.

IT REALLY CREATES SEVERAL LINES FOR OFFICERS WHERE THEY HAVE TO WEIGH THE RISK OF ENGAGING IN THE PURSUIT WITH THE NEED TO APPREHEND THE OFFENDER.

AND ENHANCES SUPERVISOR RESPONSIBILITIES SUCH THAT OFFICERS REALLY ARE TAKING DIRECTION ON A CONTINUOUS BASIS AND THAT, AGAIN, THAT IS DESIGNED AROUND ENHANCING SAFETY.

>> AND NUSRAT CHOUDHURY THIS COMES IN THE WAKE OF THE TOLEDO AND THE ANTHONY ALVAREZ SHOOTINGS THAT CAME AFTER FOOT-PURSUITS.

DO YOU THINK THE RULES HELP PREVENT FUTURE SITUATIONS LIKE ANTHONY ALVAREZ AND TOLEDO?

>> THE RULES DON'T GO FAR ENOUGH.

WE KNOW THAT CHICAGO HAS A PROBLEM WITH DEADLY FOOT-PURSUITS BORN OUT BY THE KILLINGS YOU MENTION AND YEARS OF DATA AND WHAT WE NEED A POLICY TO DO IS TO BE CLEAR AND EASY TO UNDERSTAND FOR OFFICERS TO REALLY GRASP AND IMPLEMENT IN REALTIME UNDER IMMENSE PRESSURE AND THIS POLICY IS VERY LONG.

IT INCLUDES VAGUE LANGUAGE AND IT DOESN'T PUT UP CLEAR ENOUGH GUARDRAILS ESPECIALLY WITH RESPECT TO PROHIBITING FOOT-PURSUITS FOR MINOR OFFENSES.

YOU REFERRED EARLIER CLASS A MISDEMEANORS BUT THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS FOR CLASS B AND C MISDEMEANORS IN THE POLICY AND IT'S WORTH UNDERSCORING THAT SOMETHING AS LOW AS GAMBLING POSSESSION OF ALCOHOL BY A MINOR, POSSESSION OF DRUG PARAPHERNALIA THOSE OFFENSES FOR WHICH A FOOT-PURSUIT WOULD BE PERMITTED UNDER THIS POLICY.

>> YESTERDAY SUPERINTENDENT DAVID BROWN EMPHASIZED THAT HE FELT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO LISTEN TO THE COMMUNITY AND HERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT HE SAID.

>> WE LIKELY WILL HEAR SOMETHING THAT WE DIDN'T THINK OF.

AND WE WANT THE BENEFIT OF HEARING THAT FROM THE COMMUNITY THAT WE NEED TO INCLUDE IN THIS POLICY.

IT'S WORTHWHILE.

YOU WILL NEVER HEAR ME SAY ENGAGING THE COMMUNITY IS A BAD THING.

THE COMMUNITY NEEDS TO BE ENGAGED AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY TO HELP US BUILD TRUST.

>> AREWA KAREN WINTERS DO YOU THINK THIS POLICY WAS A RESULT OF COMMUNITY INPUT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND NOW I WANT TO SAY THIS PROBABLY STARTED PRIOR TO EVEN THE COALITION COMING FORWARD WITH THE CONSENT DECREE.

BECAUSE HISTORICALLY THIS HAS BEEN HAPPENING OVER AND OVER AND OVER TIME AND TIME AGAIN IN BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES.

SO I DEFINITELY THINK IT WAS FROM THE PEOPLE THE PRESSURE FROM THE PEOPLE TO NOT ONLY HAVE THE CONSENT DECREE BUT TO HAVE POLICE REFORM.

BECAUSE IT IS VERY NECESSARY VERY NEEDED IN THIS CITY.

SO IN THIS POLICY DOESN'T CUT IT.

>> YOU ARE SAYING IT WAS NOT ENOUGH INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY AS THE SUPERINTENDENT SAYS HE WANTED TO LISTEN TO THE COMMUNITY.

RICHARD WOOTEN, AS A FORMER COP I WILL PRESENT THIS QUESTION TO YOU HOW DO YOU GO THROUGH IN YOUR HEAD IS THIS A CLASS A MISDEMEANOR?

IS THIS PERSON A THREAT TO THE COMMUNITY?

A CHECKLIST IN A SITUATION THAT CAN BE HEATED?

>> EXACTLY.

THIS IS PUTTING MORE STRESS ON THE OFFICERS AND CAUSING THEM TO MAKE MORE MISTAKES.

WHEN IS A GOOD TIME TO CHASE AND WHEN IS NOT A GOOD TIME IS GOING TO PUT THEIR LIVES FURER IN DANGER.

I THINK THE POLICY SHOULD BE MORE SPECIFIC AND CLEAR AND ADDRESS WHAT THEY CAN CHASE FOR AND WHEN THEY CAN CHASE.

BECAUSE WHEN I WAS GOING THROUGH THE POLICY MYSELF, IT IS JUST SO WISHY WASHY AND LEAVES OUT A LOT OF ROOM FOR MUCH ERROR.

>> ROBERT BOIK THERE ARE A LOT OF RESPONSES.

YOU'VE HEARD THE CRITICISM NOT ENOUGH COMMUNITY INPUT, IT DOESN'T GO FAR ENOUGH, IT'S TOO VAGUE IN ITS LANGUAGE AND THAT IT COULD BE DANGEROUS FOR THE POLICE HAVING TO CONSIDER ALL THESE THINGS.

YOUR RESPONSE TO THOSE ISSUES?

>> SO I WANT TO START WITH COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT BECAUSE IT'S JUST NOT TRUE TO SAY THIS POLICY WASN'T DEVELOPED WITH ANY COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT.

MS.

WINTERS GROUP MET WITH US AND WE TALKED EXTENSIVELY WHAT SHOULD BE INCLUDED IN A FOOT-PURSUIT POLICY.

AND I WOULD ALSO SAY THAT THE A.C.L.U.

AND OTHERS ARE SEEKING SPECIAL TREATMENT WITH RESPECT TO ENGAGEMENT AND WHAT WE'VE PUT FORWARD IS A VERY COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THAT THE DEPARTMENT EVER ENGAGED IN TO GET FEEDBACK FROM THE COMMUNITY AND OUR OFFICERS INCLUDING A WEBINAR ON JUNE 1 TWO COMMUNITY MEETINGS ONE IN JUNE AND ONE IN JULY.

THE POLICY IS OPEN NOW FOR PUBLIC COMMENT WE INVITE PUBLIC COMMENT FROM EVERYONE ACROSS THE CITY OF CHICAGO AND WHAT WE'RE HOPING TO DO IS TO HAVE BROAD COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT AND TO HEAR FROM EVERY COMMUNITY ACROSS THE CITY.

WITH RESPECT TO THE POLICY ITSELF, AGAIN, IT PRIORITIZED OFFICER SAFETY.

IT DOES CREATE A BRIGHT LINE AND CLEAR RESPONSIBILITIES FOR SUPERVISORS.

>> AND NUSRAT CHOUDHURY THE POLICE DEPARTMENT THIS IS INTERIM THEY ARE STUDYING THIS AND WANTED TO GET SOMETHING OUT QUICKLY IN THE WAKE OF ANTHONY ALVAREZ AND TOLEDO.

WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT YOU BELIEVE SHOULD BE IN A PERMANENT POLICY?

>> I THINK TO UNDERSCORE THAT OTHERS COULD HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE CHANCE TO GIVE INPUT AS DEVELOPING AN INTERIM POLICY MAKING THAT POINT CLEAR IT IS NOT ABOUT THE A.C.L.U.

BUT FROM PEOPLE IN DIRECTLY IMPACTED COMMUNITIES.

AND WHAT THE POLICY SHOULD INCLUDE THIS POLICY DOES NOT INCLUDE EARLY AND A CLEAR STATEMENT THAT FOOT-PURSUITS ARE EXTRAORDINARILY DANGEROUS.

WE KNOW THE CITY HAS A PROBLEM WITH DEADLY FOOT-PURSUITS AND THAT IS NOT MADE CLEAR IN THE PURPOSE OF THE POLICY OR BUT WHAT WE GET INSTEAD WISHY WASHY STATEMENTS THAT LEAVE A LOT OF ROOM FOR OFFICER DISCRETION TO ENGAGE IN A FOOT-PURSUIT EVEN WHEN THERE ARE MINOR OFFENSES, EVEN IF THE CATEGORIES OF OFFENSES THAT ARE IDENTIFIED IN THE FOOT-PURSUIT AND THAT IS NOT THE CLEAR, EASY TO OPERATIONALIZE GUIDANCE THAT WILL RESTRICT WHAT HAS BEEN A DEADLY PRACTICE IN THE CITY OF CHICAGO FOR A LONGTIME.

>> AND AREWA KAREN WINTERS COMMUNITY GROUPS DID SUGGEST DOZENS OF RECOMMENDATIONS MANY DID NOT MAKE IT IN HERE.

WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE SHOULD MAKE IT INTO THIS POLICY THAT WAS LEFT OUT?

>> I APPRECIATE RICHARD WOOTEN.

I CANNOT SAY WE HAD AN EXTENSIVE CONVERSATION THEY DID INTRODUCE CONCEPTS BUT WE DIDN'T RECEIVE ANYTHING WRITTEN SO WE DIDN'T HAVE A CHANCE TO PROCESS AND GO THROUGH AND MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS.

BUT IN 2019, THE COALITION DID SUBMIT THINGS.

WHAT I'M MORE CONCERNED ABOUT IS THE PROHIBITIONS.

I DIDN'T SEE PROHIBITIONS WITH IT AND ONE OF THEM FOR ME IS SO MANY OF OUR YOUNG PEOPLE ARE SHOT IN THEIR BACKS WHILE THEY ARE RUNNING AWAY, FLEEING, THEY SAY THAT THEY ARE A THREAT TO THE COMMUNITY BUT REALLY AT THAT INSTANCE THEY ARE ONLY A THREAT TO THEMSELVES HOW CAN POLICE OFFICERS ENGAGING THE THREAT WITHOUT KILLING THEM AND HARMING THEM?

SO THAT IS I THINK SERVE AND PROTECT IN THE WORST CASE SCENARIOS WHERE THEY HAVE A WEAPON NOT HAVE A WEAPON IF THEY ARE NOT OPENLY SHOOTING AT ANYONE IN MOST CASES THEY ARE NOT THEY ARE RUNNING AWAY.

CLIMBING FENCES AND THEY LOSE THEIR LIVES.

I WANT TO SEE OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT ENGAGE WITH OUR YOUNG PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITIES WHERE EVERYONE CAN COME OUT SAFE.

>> RICHARD WOOTEN HOW DO POLICE OFFICERS FEEL ABOUT FOOT-PURSUITS IN GENERAL?

DO THEY FEEL THAT THEY CARRY A LOT OF RISK AND DANGER WITH THEM?

WOULD THEY RATHER NOT ENGAGE IN A FOOT-PURSUIT?

OR RATHER BE ABLE TO ENGAGE THAT WAY?

>> YOU KNOW, FOOT-PURSUITS IS PART OF THE JOB AND WE UNDERSTAND THAT.

AN AUGUST OF 192001 WE LOST A GREAT OFFICER FROM A FOOT-PURSUIT WHO WAS SHOT BY AN OFFENDER.

BUT WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT FOOT-PURSUITS SOMETIMES IS JUST NOT NECESSARY.

YOU KNOW WHEN YOU HAVE GAMBLING, IN A BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES THESE ARE MOST YOUR FOOT-PURSUITS.

GAMBLING, SUSPENDED DRIVER'S LICENSE, DRINKING ON A PUBLIC WAY OR SOME OTHER MINOR INCIDENT WHERE YOU KNOW THE INDIVIDUAL IS GOING TO RETURN IN THAT AREA AGAIN THE NEXT DAY.

WHY PURSUE HIM WHEN YOU KNOW THEY ARE GOING TO BE THERE.

AND WHAT HAPPENS WHEN AN OFFICER SEES THE PARTICULAR CRIMES IN ITS ACT THEY BEGIN TO KICK IN AND THEY GO RUNNING.

WHAT WE NEED IS A STATEMENT WITHIN THE POLICY THAT SAYS WE WILL NOT CHASE ANYONE UNLESS IT'S LIFE-THREATENING AND A CLASS A FELONY.

YOU KNOW, OTHER THAN THAT THERE SHOULD NOT BE FOOT-PURSUITS YOU PUT THE OFFICER IN DANGER AND THE COMMUNITY IN DANGER AND THE INDIVIDUAL THAT IS RUNNING IN DANGER BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO BE CAUGHT BY THE POLICE.

>> AND POLICY MENTIONS THERE IS MORE TO COME ON THIS.

THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE A COMMUNITY REVIEW PROCESS AND COME OUT WITH MORE SPECIFIC PROPOSALS IN SEPTEMBER.

OUR THANKS TO AREWA KAREN