>> AS TEMPERATURES DROP IN CHICAGO, THE FIGHT OVER YOUR GAS AND POWER RATES ARE HEATING UP.

THE NEWLY APPOINTED COMMERCE COMMISSION THREW COLD WATER ON PLANS FOR COMMENT AND PEOPLE'S GASSED TO RAISE CONSUMERS RATES.

THAT PROMPTED CHEERS FROM CONSUMER GROUPS AND PROBABLY MOST OF THE CHICAGO CONSUMERS OUT THERE.

BUT HOWELL'S FROM POWER COMPANIES SAYING THEY'RE RELYING ON THE HIGHER RATES TO UPGRADE AGING INFRASTRUCTURE AND PROVIDE CLEAN ENERGY.

AND HERE WITH THEIR ANALYSIS, OUR SARA MOSCOW, ITS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE CITIZENS UTILITY BOARD AND MARK POULOS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE ILLINOIS FOUNDATION FOR FAIR CONTRACTING.

WE ALSO INVITED PEOPLE'S GAS, BUT THEY DECLINED OUR INVITATION.

WE THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

SO TO REMIND VIEWERS, WHEN RATES GO UP OR WHEN PEOPLES GAS COMED THAT THEY ASKED FOR HIGH RATES AGO FOR THE ILLINOIS COMMERCE COMMISSION ABOARD APPOINTED FOR FOR THE GOVERNOR.

IN THE PAST, THE COMMENTS COMMISSIONERS USUALLY RUBBER STAMP THESE A RATE HIKE ASKS THIS TIME WITH PEOPLE'S GAS.

THEY CUT IT BY 25%.

SO PEOPLE'S WAS LOOKING FOR 400 MILLION DOLLARS IN HIKES IT'S GOING TO BE CUT TO 2 AROUND 300 MILLION.

SARA, WHAT WAS THE RATIONALE FOR CUTTING THOSE HIKES DOWN, WHICH AGAIN, IS GOING TO AFFECT EVERY CONSUMER IN CHICAGO'S BILL ON THE PEOPLES.

GAS SIDE OF THE COMMISSION SAID LOUD AND CLEAR THAT THE UTILITY HAD NOT DONE ITS JOB IN PROVING THAT THESE RATE HIKES WERE JUST AND REASONABLE AND PRUDENT LEE ARRIVED AT.

>> SO THEY'RE NOT PUTTING THE ON IT ANY KIND OF EMERGENCY OR SAFETY MAINTENANCE NEEDED ON THE LINES.

IN FACT, THE FINAL ORDER SAYS VERY EXPLICITLY THAT THE UTILITY STILL REQUIRED BY STATUTE TO MAKE THOSE KINDS OF IMPROVEMENTS.

WHAT THIS MEANS IS BASICALLY JUST A RETURN TO TRADITIONAL REGULATION WHEREBY THEY MAKE THOSE UPGRADES AND THEN THEY PUT THAT INTO A FUTURE RATE CASE.

REMINDS WHAT WILL THIS MEAN FOR THE AVERAGE GAS CONSUMERS?

BILL?

>> SO PEOPLE'S GAS STILL GOT A RECORD RATE HIKE.

THEY RECEIVED A 300 MILLION DOLLAR RATE HIKE.

AND SO THE GAS COMPANY HAS COME BACK SAYING, WELL, FIRST, THEY FILED A MOTION ASKING IF THE COMMISSION, IF THEY REALLY MEANT IT.

THE COMMISSION SAID, YES, WE REALLY MEANT.

NOW THEY'RE GOING THROUGH THE MOTIONS OF GETTING READY TO GEAR UP FOR ANOTHER RATE HIKE REQUEST FOR NEXT YEAR.

THIS COMING OFF OF RECORD PROFITS AT THE UTILITY'S BEEN ENJOYING FOR 6 STRAIGHT YEARS.

ALL RIGHT.

SO FOLKS WILL STILL SEE HIGHER RATES ON THEIR BILLS OR PERHAPS NOT AS HIGH AS IT WOULD HAVE BEEN.

MARK, YOUR REACTION TO THIS DECISION?

MY REACTION IS ONE.

I DON'T THINK THAT THE ICC COMMISSION IS EVER RUBBER STAMPED.

>> ANYTHING THAT THE UTILITY IS BEST FOR.

I THINK OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS WE'VE BEEN DOING THE CELEBRATED MAN REPLACEMENT PROGRAM.

I THINK PEOPLE'S GAS HAS MADE FILINGS BEFORE THE ICC COMMISSION ON TIME LIKE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO EVERY SINGLE YEAR WITH THE ICC COMMISSION HAS TO DETERMINE PREGNANCY EVERY TIME THAT THEY'VE GONE THROUGH IT, THEY DETERMINE THAT IT HAS IN FACT, A IN ABOUT THE 5TH YEAR OF FILING THOSE IN THE LAST 10 YEARS, THE ICC COMMISSION WAS GETTING CONCERNED ABOUT YOU KNOW, COST OF THE PROGRAM ESCALATING.

AND SO THEY ASKED FOR A 3RD PARTY TO DO A STUDY TO WHICH THEY DID IN THE 3RD PARTY.

NOT ONLY SAID HAS EVERYTHING THAT THEY'VE BEEN DOING PRUDENT.

THEY SAID THEY SHOULD BE SPENDING MORE AND THEY SHOULD BE DOING IT FASTER THAN THEY'RE ACTUALLY DOING.

ALL RIGHT.

SO THIS IS THAT THE MAIN REPLACEMENT FRONT OF PEOPLE'S GAS IS GOING BLOCK BY BLOCK THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE CITY.

REPLACING.

>> INFRASTRUCTURE THAT'S BEEN THERE IN SOME CASES 100 YEARS OR PUTTING POLYETHYLENE A PIPING IN THERE.

SO DOES THIS DECISION MEAN THEY'RE GOING TO STOP PART OF THAT?

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THIS MEANS.

THERE'S A THEY PUT IT ON PAUSE PENDING FURTHER REVIEW.

WHAT IT MEANS IS STARTING JANUARY 1ST.

>> THE ICC COMMISSION HAS ORDERED PEOPLE'S GAS TO STOP THE ACCELERATED MAIN REPLACEMENT PROGRAM, WHICH MEANS THERE'S ABOUT 250 MILLION DOLLARS WORTH OF 1000 JOBS.

ABOUT A MILLION AND A MAN HOURS THAT WE'RE GOING IN IN ORDER TO PROVIDE SAFE, RELIABLE HEAT TO THE 90% OF PEOPLE IN THE CITY OF CHICAGO THAT RELY ON NATURAL GAS TO HEAT THEIR HOMES AND THE BUILDINGS.

AND THEY'VE ASKED THEM TO PAUSE THIS, WHICH MEANS WHICH MEANS DOUG SCOTT, WHO HAS BEEN WHO'S THE ICC COMMISSIONER CHAIR HAS BEEN ON A VENGEANCE IN THE MIDWEST AND IS THE DECARBONIZATION CZAR WHO IS NOW RUNNING THE ILLINOIS COMMERCE COMMISSION.

THE FACT THE MATTER IS THIS ISN'T ABOUT RATE HIKES.

THIS IS ABOUT CAR, BUT HIS AGENCY IS HIS AGENDA HERE IS HE WANTS TO MOVE AWAY FROM FROM THIS KIND POWER FROM NATURAL GAS AND OTHER KIND OF ENERGY SOURCES.

AND THAT'S WHY DOING IT.

BUT I KNOW I WANT TO GET YOURS IS ABSOLUTELY ABOUT RATE HIKES.

>> PEOPLES GAS CUSTOMERS RIGHT NOW ARE PAYING UPWARDS OF $50 A MONTH BEFORE THEY EVER USE A BIT OF GAS.

WHEN I TRAVEL AROUND THE COUNTRY TALKING TO COLLEAGUES FROM OTHER STATES, THEY DON'T BELIEVE THAT WHEN I TELL THEM THAT.

>> CITY IS ALREADY IN THE MIDST OF AN AFFORDABILITY CRISIS IN SOME ZIP CODES.

WE SEE PEEP UPWARDS OF 50% OF CUSTOMERS ARE BEHIND ON THEIR BILLS.

A REAR EDGE IS TOTAL NOW BETWEEN 80 90 MILLION DOLLARS, WHICH EVENTUALLY GET RATE BASE COVERED BY THE REST OF THE CUSTOMER CLASS.

SO WE HAVE AN ISSUE HERE WHERE PEOPLE FORWARD TO HEAT THEIR HOMES.

BILLS ARE ALREADY TOO HIGH.

THEY ARE MUCH HIGHER THAN OTHER UTILITIES ACROSS THE STATE AND PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD IT.

NOW UTILITY HAS BEEN MAKING RECORD PROFITS HAVE BEEN BREAKING THEIR RENT THEIR RECORD YEAR AFTER YEAR FOR PROFITS.

AND THEY KEEP COMING BACK FOR MORE AND MORE.

THEY JUST GOT A RECORD RATE HIKE AND THEY WANT MORE AND THEY'RE KICKING AND SCREAMING ABOUT THE FACT THAT THEY JUST GOT A RECORD RATE HIKE.

BUT IT'S NOT ENOUGH.

WHEN IS ENOUGH ENOUGH?

ALL RIGHT.

SO RECORD RATE HEIGHT, TRUE RECORD PROFITS.

AND SO, WHY CAN'T THE PEOPLE'S FUND THIS MAIN REPLACEMENT PROGRAM WITHOUT?

>> THE EXTRA 100 MILLION DOLLARS SAID THAT.

IT'S ASKING FOR WHAT WHAT'S TRUE IS THAT THE ICC COMMISSION IS THE ONE THAT ACTUALLY SETS THE PROFITS.

>> THAT THAT THE INDUSTRY'S IN THE STATE COMED CAMERUN PEOPLES GAS NIGHT NAME UTILITY RATES AND FACT THAT PROFIT A STAND-BY THE RATES SO THEY SET THE PEOPLE'S CAST.

THOSE RATES ARE SET BY THE ICC COMMISSION.

IN FACT, IN THE LAST RATE CASE THAT THEY JUST FILED TO ACTUALLY KNOCK DOWN WHAT THE PROPHET COULD BE FOR PEOPLE'S GAS.

THE FACT THE MATTER IS THINGS COST MONEY AND WE WOULD ADVOCATE ALONG WITH KHALID BIN ANYBODY ELSE THAT PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE AFFORDABLE RATES FOR FOR THEIR ENERGY, FOR THEIR GAS, FOR THEIR ELECTRIC AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

BUT WHAT WE WHAT WE WON'T STAND FOR AS WE WON'T STAND COMMERCE COMMISSION THAT IS OUT ON A VENGEANCE TO DO AWAY WHICH WITH NATURAL GAS BEFORE WE HAVE A PLAN TO REPLACE IT WITH SOMETHING ELSE WE'RE SITTING BEFORE TOGETHER.

WE'RE SITTING BEFORE THE ICC, COMMISSION ON GEOTHERMAL, FOR EXAMPLE, WE THINK THAT'S A GREAT IDEA.

WE THINK IT'S THE WAVE OF THE FUTURE TO HEAT AND COOL OUR HOMES AND BUILDINGS IN THE CITY OF CHICAGO.

BUT THE FACT THE MATTER IS THAT IS 30 TO 60 YEARS OUT BEFORE WE ARE READY TO CAP THE NATURAL GAS SYSTEM AND MOVE ON TO A NEW SYSTEM.

BY THE WAY, WE HAVE SPENT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN THIS COUNTRY SUBSIDIZING THE ELECTRICAL INDUSTRY TO SAY, LET'S DO OUR INDIE ON SOLAR.

LET'S DO OUR INDIE ON WHEN MALES.

LET'S LOOK AT ALL THESE RENEWABLE ENERGY SOURCES, BUT WE'VE NOT INVESTED IN NATURAL GAS TO DETERMINE WHAT'S THE NEXT BEST AFTER A NATURAL GAS.

ALL RIGHT.

THAT THE FINAL ORDERS, BUT THAT ISSUED BY THE COMMISSION.

>> CALL FOR A FUTURE OF GAS PROCEEDING AT WHICH WE ALL SIT DOWN AND WORK WITH ELECTRIC UTILITIES TO WORK OUT THE FUTURE OF THIS INFRASTRUCTURE, WHICH IS EXPENSIVE.

IT'S UNHEALTHY.

IT'S BAD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT WE ALREADY SEE PEOPLE MOVING OFF OF GAS.

WE AT WHO ARE INTERESTED ELECTRIFYING THEIR HOMES.

WHAT HAPPENS IF THAT TRANSITION HAPPENS IN AN UNMANAGED WAY?

WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT PEOPLE WITH WHO CAN AFFORD TO DO SO EXIT THE GAS RATE THE REST OF THEIR CUSTOMERS, EVEN LESS ABLE TO PAY ARE YOU SAYING THAT THIS 11 BILLION DOLLAR MAIN REPLACEMENT PROGRAM?

>> PERHAPS IS NOT WARRANTED IF MORE AND MORE PEOPLE START MOVING AWAY FROM NATURAL WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT IS NOW THE TIME TO BE POURING MORE AND MORE OF RATEPAYER MONEY INTO A SYSTEM WHICH MAY ONE DAY SOON BECOME OBSOLETE, END NOT IN USE.

>> WE EAT THROUGH THE MAIN REPLACEMENT PROGRAM.

THE UTILITY HAS BEEN REPLACING.

PIECES OF THEIR SYSTEM THAT DID NOT NEED TO BE REPLACED.

WE ARE STILL PAYING FOR SOME OF THE STUFF THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN REPLACED MARKETING.

AND I MEAN THAT IN A LOT OF CHRIS AND INCLUDE FROM THE ATTORNEY GENERAL THAT THIS THIS BUDGET JUST KIND OF BLEW INTO THE PROGRAMS.

GOTTEN UNRULY HERE.

>> WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST IS DIGGING AROUND THE MULTIPLE UTILITIES AND WORKING WITH I THINK IT'S 20 DEFEAT.

28 AGENCY AGENCIES TO DO THESE PROGRAMS THROUGH THE CITY OF IS RELATIVELY DIFFICULT WORK AND I WOULD THAT I THINK THE INITIAL ESTIMATE OF THIS PARTICULAR PROGRAM AS THEY CONTINUE TO GET INTO THIS AND THE CITY OF CHICAGO OVER TIME AS REQUESTED THINGS LIKE WHEN YOU PUT THE MANNION, CAN YOU PLEASE REPLACE THE 4 CORNERS AND THE ADA ACCESSIBLE SIDEWALK AND PREGNANT WITH THE SO WE'VE GOT WE'VE GOT TO GO.

SO YOU'RE SAYING YOU KNOW, INITIAL COST ESTIMATES, THERE'S A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT WENT INTO THIS AND THOSE COSTS WENT UP AFTER LEAVE IT THERE.

SARAH MOSCOWITZ IN