1 [ THEME MUSIC ] >> ON THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF "NEW YORK NOW," GOVERNOR HOCHUL'S NOMINEE FOR CHIEF JUDGE GETS A HEARING.

WE'LL TELL YOU WHAT HAPPENED AND LATER, NEW YORK HAS A NEW PLAN IN RESPONSE TO CLIMATE CHANGE.

WE'LL SPEAK WITH THE TWO CHAIRS OF THE STATE'S CLIMATE ACTION COUNCIL, PLUS A CLEAN SLATE UPDATE.

I'M DAN CLARK AND THIS IS "NEW YORK NOW."

[ THEME MUSIC ] >> WELCOME TO THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF "NEW YORK NOW."

I'M DAN CLARK.

NEW YORK'S COURT SYSTEM IS A COMPLICATED, CONFUSING AND OFTEN DYSFUNCTIONAL BRANCH OF STATE GOVERNMENT.

THERE ARE 11 DIFFERENT KINDS OF COURTS.

JUST AT THE LOWEST LEVEL.

BUT THEN THERE'S THE MID-TIER APPELLATE COURTS AND AT THE TOP IS NEW YORK'S COURT OF APPEALS.

BASICALLY OUR EQUIVALENT OF THE U.S. SUPREME COURT AND THE CHIEF JUDGE OF THE COURT OF APPEALS ALSO DOUBLES AS THE HEAD OF THE STATE'S ENTIRE JUDICIAL BRANCH.

IT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT JOB THAT AFFECTS EACH AND EVERY NEW YORKER EVERY DAY, AND THAT'S WHY GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL'S NOMINEE FOR CHIEF JUDGE, HECTOR LaSALLE, GOT A LOT OF PUSHBACK FROM PROGRESSIVES.

HE'S A PRESIDING JUSTICE FOR ONE OF THE STATE'S APPELLATE COURTS.

PROGRESSIVES DON'T 2 LIKE HIM BECAUSE THEY SAY HE HAS SHOWN A PATTERN OF SIDING WITH PROSECUTORS AND AGAINST UNIONS.

SOME LEGAL ANALYSTS HAVE SAID THAT CRITICISM IS OVERBLOWN.

HE GOT THE CHANCE TO DEFEND HIMSELF THIS WEEK WHEN THE SENATE HELD A HEARING ON HIS NOMINATION.

SAYING THOSE DECISIONS SHOULDN'T DEFINE HIM.

>> I SEE A CASE.

I RULE ON IT.

I DECIDE IT.

I DON'T THEN SAY, OH, BOY, I JUST HAD FOUR CASES WHERE I AGREED WITH THE PROSECUTOR.

I BETTER AGREE WITH THE DEFENSE.

SO IT COULD GO THE OTHER WAY, TOO.

WE MAKE DETERMINATIONS BASED ON WHAT'S IN FRONT OF US CASE BY CASE.

EVERY PERSON IS TREATED AS AN INDIVIDUAL AND THEIR CASE IS TREATED INDIVIDUAL.

NOT IN AGGREGATE.

THAT'S NOT HOW WE DECIDE CASES.

>> BUT AFTER FIVE HOURS OF TESTIMONY AND A LOT OF QUESTIONS, THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE VOTED DOWN LaSALLE'S NOMINATION.

WE DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS.

SOME, LIKE GOVERNOR HOCHUL, THINK IT DOESN'T MATTER, AND THAT THE STATE CONSTITUTION STILL REQUIRES A FULL FLOOR VOTE IN THE SENATE, BUT OTHERS SAY THAT'S NOT THE CASE.

AND THAT LaSALLE'S NOMINATION IS NOW DEAD, THAT INCLUDES SENATE JUDICIARY CHAIR BRAD HOYLMAN-SIGAL.. >> IT'S OUR ASSESSMENT THAT THE SENATE HAS PERFORMED ITS 3 RESPONSIBILITIES PURSUANT TO THE STATE CONSTITUTION.

WE HAVE REJECTED THE NOMINEE PURSUANT TO THE SENATE RULES AND THE CONSTITUTION AND THE PROCESS STARTS ANEW.

BUT THERE ARE STILL A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT'S NEXT.

LET'S GET INTO IT WITH THIS WEEK'S PANEL.

YANCEY ROYCE FROM NEWSDAY AND JOSH SOLOMON FROM THE TU THANK YOU, GUYS.

YANCEY, WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?

>> WELL, A LOT OF IT DEPENDS ON THE DECISIONS BY GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL.

THE SENATE COMMITTEE HAS VOTED DOWN HECTOR LaSALLE.

KATHY HOCHUL MAKES A CASE, AS DO HER SUPPORTERS, AS DO THE FORMER CHIEF JUDGE OF NEW YORK STATE MAKE THE CASE THAT THAT'S NOT SUFFICIENT.

THAT WHAT THE CONSTITUTION AND THE STATE STATUTES CALL FOR IS A VOTE OF THE FULL SENATE AND THEY'RE SAYING THAT THIS STILL HAS TO PROCEED TO THE FULL SENATE, WHERE IT MIGHT BE A DIFFERENT OUTCOME.

NOW THEY SAY THEY HAVE THE LAW ON THEIR SIDE, BUT THERE'S A LAW AND THERE'S A POLITICAL STRATEGY.

>> YEAH.

>> DOES SHE WANT TO PICK THIS FIGHT?

DOES SHE WANT TO FIGHT IT TO THE END, NOT ONLY FOR HECTOR LaSALLE BUT TO FIGHT IT TO THE END OF EXECUTIVE BRANCH VERSUS LEGISLATIVE BRANCH?

AND HOW DOES THAT PLAY OUT WITH THE STATE BUDGET COMING OUT?

4 >> IT'S SO INTERESTING TO ME.

JOSH, TAKE ME BEHIND THE SCENES OF WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE AS MUCH AS WE KNOW.

I MEAN-- I SAY THAT LIKE IT'S A STRONG TERM.

WE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW IF HE WOULD PASS THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE WHEN HE WENT TO THE HEARING ON WEDNESDAY.

SO TAKE ME BEHIND WHAT DEMOCRATS ARE GOING THROUGH RIGHT NOW.

>> WELL, PUBLICLY, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC-FACING SENATE MAJORITY LEADER ANDREA STEWART-COUSINS IS SAYING WE'RE GOOD.

WE'RE FOLLOWING THE RULES, AND WE'RE GOING TO KEEP DOING THAT.

WE'RE GOING TO FOLLOW OUR RULES.

NOW FROM WHAT I'VE UNDERSTOOD, NO ONE HAS RETAINED COUNSEL YET.

MAYBE AS OF THIS MORNING IT WILL BE DIFFERENT OR APPARENTLY THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE IS SEEKING TO RETAIN COUNSEL.

MY FORMER COLLEAGUE, CHRIS, WITH THE BUFFALO NEWS, SAID THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE IS GOING TO RETAIN COUNSEL.

COMPTROLLER'S OFFICE HASN'T FOUND THAT YET.

NO CONTRACTS HAVE GONE FORWARD.

IT'S A BIT OF A MESS, BUT YOU SEE A LOT OF KIND OF JOCKEYING RIGHT NOW.

THE NEWS COMING OUT THE NIGHT BEFORE THE VOTE THAT THE GOVERNOR IS GOING TO RETAIN COUNSEL.

NOW THE MAJORITY LEADER IS SAYING, WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING YET.

WE'RE GOING TO WAIT AND SEE WHAT THE GOVERNOR DOES.

WE'RE KIND OF ALL WAITING AS WELL.

>> IT'S A WAITING GAME.

HISTORICALLY, JUDICIAL 5 NOMINATIONS IN NEW YORK FOR THE COURT OF APPEALS AND THE APPELLATE DEPARTMENTS AS WELL ARE KIND OF MORE RUBBER-STAMPED BY THE SENATE, YANCEY.

THEY HAVE A VERY SHORT HEARING USUALLY BEFORE THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE.

SOMETIMES IT'S AS SHORT AS TEN MINUTES, AND THEN THEY GO STRAIGHT TO THE FLOOR SAME DAY, USUALLY, AND GET NEAR UNANIMOUS VOTE.

WHY IS THIS ONE DIFFERENT?

>> THIS ONE IS DIFFERENT BECAUSE OF SORT OF THE POLITICAL CLIMATE AND THE RECENT HISTORY OF THE COURT.

AMONG OTHER THINGS, WHAT YOU HAVE NOW IS YOU HAVE A STRONG DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY IN THE LEGISLATURE.

ESPECIALLY THE SENATE THAT'S MORE PROGRESSIVE, MORE LIBERAL THAN THE GOVERNOR.

THEY WANT TO CHANGE THE DIRECTION OF THE COURT, WHICH HAS MOVED TO THE RIGHT IN THE LAST FEW YEARS AND THEY SAY, YOU KNOW, GET BEYOND MAYBE ANY INDIVIDUAL DECISIONS THAT'S BEEN DISCUSSED ABOUT HECTOR LaSALLE.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THEY WANT TO DO IS NOT HAVE A COURT THAT'S SO DOMINATED BY EX-PROSECUTORS, AND THEY WANT SOMEONE FROM A DIFFERENT AREA OF THE LAW.

AND SORT OF THE OVERVIEW, THE MACRO, THAT'S SORT OF A BIG ISSUE HERE, BEYOND ANY SPECIFIC INTEREST GROUPS AND DECISIONS THAT HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED.

ABOUT JUDGE LaSALLE.

>> THE SITUATION IS REALLY 6 INTERESTING TO ME IN TERMS OF JUDICIAL DYNAMICS, TOO.

BECAUSE WE HAVE THE FORMER CHIEF JUDGE, AS YOU SAID, JONATHAN LIPPMAN, SUPPORTING HECTOR LaSALLE, AND HE WAS A VERY DIFFERENT CHIEF JUDGE THAN THE MOST RECENT CHIEF JUDGE, JANET DIFIORE.

DO YOU THINK THAT CHANGES THINGS AT ALL?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THE ISSUE HERE IS WHAT'S HAPPENED A LITTLE BIT WITH THE COURT, THEY SIDED A LOT MORE WITH PROSECUTIONS UNDER JANET DIFIORE.

THEY CERTAINLY CUT DOWN THE NUMBER OF CASES THAT COME BEFORE THE COURT.

>> YES.

>> THAT'S ANOTHER RAW TERRITORY FOR DEFENDERS AND OTHER SIDE OF PROSECUTORS.

THEY WANT SOMEONE TO CHANGE THE DIRECTION, AND THEY SAY THAT JUDGE LaSALLE, FROM HIS PROFILE, ISN'T THAT PERSON.

>> SO JOSH, GOING BACK TO THE RETAINING COUNSEL QUESTION, THAT WOULD MEAN IF THEY DID RETAIN COUNSEL, IT COULD BE FOR COUNSEL.

IT COULD BE TO HAVE A LAWSUIT AGAINST THE SENATE, WHICH JUST FOR OUR VIEWERS, IT WOULD MEAN THAT PUBLIC MONEY PAYS FOR THE GOVERNOR COUNSEL.

PUBLIC MONEY PAYS FOR THE SENATE COUNSEL.

THEY GO AT IT IN COURT UNTIL WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, RESOLUTION OR CONCLUSION OF SOME SORT.

TAKE ME TO THE POLITICS.

BEFORE WE CAME ON THE AIR, WE WERE TALKING A 7 LITTLE BIT ABOUT DOWN THE ROAD THESE NEXT FEW MONTHS THIS IS A DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN THE GOVERNOR AND THE SENATE, BUT THAT COULD HAVE WIDER RIPPLES.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> BOTH SIDES SAY THAT EVERYTHING IS STILL CORDIAL, THINGS ARE FINE.

>> YEAH.

>> THE BUDGET WILL GO SMOOTHLY.

THE GOVERNOR'S GOING TO BE PUTTING OUT HER EXECUTIVE BUDGET ON OR AROUND FEBRUARY 1st, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TILL THE BEGINNING OF APRIL FOR THE STATE TO NEGOTIATE A BUDGET AND SO THIS IS GOING TO BE PLAYING OUT WHILE THEY'RE NEGOTIATING A BUDGET, AND LET'S NOT FORGET, PROGRESSIVES HAVE DIFFERENT ASKS IN THE BUDGET THAN WHAT THE GOVERNOR HAS ALREADY LAID OUT, GOOD CAUSE EVICTION, HIKING THE MINIMUM WAGE BEFORE ADJUSTING IT TO INFLATION.

THEIR SIGNIFICANT ASKS THAT THEY HAVE THAT THE GOVERNOR DOESN'T WANT AND THAT THE MODERATE BLOCK OF THE DEMOCRATS DON'T WANT AND SO THAT COULD PLAY OUT IN SOME OF THE POLITICKING AT PLAY HERE.

>> I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S ENOUGH TO SAY THAT-- TO HAVE PROGRESSIVES SAY, GIVE US XYZ, AND WE WILL CONFIRM HECTOR LaSALLE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

IT SEEMS NO MATTER WHAT, THEY WANT TO BLOCK HIM.

8 >> YES.

THEY WANT TO BLOCK HIM.

LET'S NOT FORGET IT WAS THE COURT OF APPEALS IN A 5-4 DECISION THAT STRUCK DOWN THEIR POLITICAL MAPS DURING REDISTRICTING.

>> RIGHT.

>> WHICH THEN LED IN PART TO THE REPUBLICAN MAJORITY IN CONGRESS, AND THOSE SAME PROGRESSIVE SENATORS SAY IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT-- AND EVEN THE MAJORITY LEADER SAYS IT'S EXTREMELY IMPORTANT TO COUNTER THE BALANCE OF THE SUPREME COURT WITH OUR COURT, AND WE NEED TO BE, YOU KNOW, A SWORD TO THEIR SHIELD, SO TO SPEAK.

>> THAT'S INTERESTING.

>> YOU KNOW, THERE'S TWO THINGS TO POINT OUT.

ONE THING THAT HURT JUDGE LaSALLE AND THE VOTE, IT'S NOT JUST THE PROGRESSIVE WING THAT HAD OPPOSED HIM.

THERE WERE HEAVY HITTERS FROM LABOR WHO OPPOSE HIM.

THERE WAS THE NAACP.

THERE WERE ABORTION RIGHTS GROUPS.

I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY IF IT WERE ONLY THE PROGRESSIVES, WE MIGHT HAVE HAD A DIFFERENT OUTCOME.

BUT IT'S NOT JUST A PROGRESSIVE.

IT'S A SORT OF WIDE BRANCH OF SUPPORTERS OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

AND THE OTHER THING ABOUT HOW LONG THIS PLAYS OUT, WHILE WE'RE-- WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE BUDGET, WHICH IS DUE IN APRIL AND ALL OF THAT, MEANWHILE THE COURT OF APPEALS HAS SIX JUDGES.

9 >> I WAS JUST GOING TO ASK YOU ABOUT THAT.

>> IT'S A POTENTIAL FOR A LOT OF 3-3 DECISIONS.

JUST LAST WEEK IN THE SET OF DECISIONS THAT GET HANDED DOWN ROUTINELY, THERE WERE TWO CASES THAT THE COURT SAID WILL HAVE TO BE REARGUED.

THEY NEVER SAID EXACTLY WHY THEY WERE BEING REARGUED.

>> YEAH.

>> YOU CAN KIND OF GUESS THAT MAYBE ONE OR BOTH OF THOSE CASES CAME UP DEADLOCKED, 3-3, AND THEY COULDN'T REACH A DECISION AND THAT'S WHY THEY'RE NOW BEING REARGUED.

SO HOW LONG DOES THE COURT WAIT BEFORE THEY AGITATE A BIT AND SAY, WE NEED A SEVENTH JUDGE.

WE NEED A CHIEF JUDGE HERE.

>> RIGHT.

THE DYNAMICS OF THE COURT OF APPEALS ARE RIGHT NOW ARE VERY INTERESTING.

YOU DO HAVE, FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM, A CONSERVATIVE BLOCK ON THAT COURT AND A SLIGHTLY SMALLER, MORE PROGRESSIVE, MORE MODERATE PART OF THAT COURT IN JUDGES LIKE ROWAN WILSON AND JENNY RIVERA.

SO I THINK PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR A JUDGE THAT MAYBE SHAKES THINGS UP.

BUT WE ARE OUT OF TIME.

ALWAYS GREAT TO TALK TO BOTH OF YOU JOSH SOLOMON FROM THE TU, YANCEY ROY FROM NEWSDAY, THANK YOU.

STAY NOW AT THE STATE CAPITOL, NEW YORK IS NOW MOVING FORWARD WITH A 10 PLAN TO ADAPT TO AND COMBAT CLIMATE CHANGE.

THE STATE'S CLIMATE ACTION COUNCIL MET LAST MONTH TO PROVE WHAT'S CALLED A SCOPING PLAN.

THAT'S BASICALLY THE STATE'S PLAN TO MEET ITS CLIMATE GOALS, WHICH YOU'LL REMEMBER WERE SET IN 2019, WHEN THE LEGISLATURE PASSED THE STATE'S CLIMATE ACT.

TO DO THAT, NEW YORK WILL LEAN ON MORE RENEWABLE ENERGY, LIKE WIND, GEOTHERMAL AND MORE.

THAT'S PITTING POWER PRODUCERS AGAINST ENVIRONMENTALISTS, WITH CONCERNS ABOUT THE STATE'S ENERGY GRID AND IF IT'S READY FOR THAT TRANSITION.

GAVIN DONOHUE, WAS ONE OF JUST TWO NO VOTES ON THE CLIMATE ACTION COUNCIL AGAINST THE SCOPING PLAN.

HE'S PRESIDENT OF INDEPENDENT POWER PRODUCERS OF NEW YORK, A TRADE GROUP FOR ENERGY PRODUCERS.

>> THE BUILDOUT THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS UNBELIEVABLE, AND THIS STATE HAS NEVER SEEN A BUILDOUT LIKE THIS.

SO WE NEED TO DO IT RIGHT, AND WE NEED TO KEEP THE SYSTEM RELIABLE.

>> BUT THE STATE IS CONFIDENT THAT WON'T BE A PROBLEM.

THE SCOPING PLAN ALSO INCLUDES RECOMMENDATIONS FOR IMPROVING THE STATE'S ENERGY GRID AND PREPARING IT FOR THE FUTURE.

SO TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THE SCOPING PLAN, WE SPOKE WITH THE COCHAIRS OF THE CLIMATE ACTION COUNCIL.

DEC COMMISSIONER BASIL SEGGOS AND DOREEN 11 HARRIS, PRESIDENT OF THE STATE'S ENERGY RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY.

[ THEME MUSIC ] BASIL, DOREEN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING BACK.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANKS DAN.

GOOD TO BE BACK.

>> OF COURSE.

I WANT TO ASK YOU, FIRST, ABOUT THE TIME LINE OF THE SCOPING PLAN.

CLIMATE CHANGE IS JUST SO URGENT.

YOU KNOW, AS WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS PLAN TO GET TO 100% RENEWABLE ENERGY, NET ZERO EMISSIONS, WHAT'S THE TIME LINE FOR THAT?

HOW QUICKLY CAN WE GET THERE?

>> WELL, THE LAW REQUIRES US TO GET TO NET ZERO BY 2050.

THAT SEEMS LIKE A LONG WAY OFF.

THERE ARE A NUMBER OF IMPORTANT BENCHMARKS BETWEEN NOW AND THEN THAT WE HAVE TO HIT 70% RENEWABLE BY 2030.

THAT'S JUST AROUND THE CORNER.

I THINK YOU'LL HEAR THAT WE'RE MAKING GOOD PROGRESS TOWARD THAT.

THE LAW WAS AMBITIOUS WHEN WE SIGNED IT, RIGHT, BACK IN 2019.

WE'VE BEEN HARD AT WORK FOR TWO AND A HALF, THREE YEARS, PUTTING THE PLAN TOGETHER.

I THINK AS YOU HEARD FROM THE GOVERNOR AND THE STATE OF THE STATE, WE ARE ROLLING IN TWO IMPLEMENTATIONS.

WE'RE NOT MISSING A BEAT.

AND REALLY IMPORTANTLY, NYSERDA CHIEFLY, BUT OTHER AGENCIES OF THE STATE HAVE BEEN ROLLING OUT RENEWABLE POWER AT AN EXTRAORDINARY RATE FOR THE LAST FEW YEARS 12 >> YEAH.

ESPECIALLY HERE, WE HAVE A LOT GOING ON WITH WIND POWER AND ALTERNATIVE ENERGIES.

THAT'S GREAT.

DOREEN, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT SOMETHING THE LAST TIME YOU WERE HERE.

YOU SURPRISED THEN WHEN YOU TOLD ME THAT OUR BIGGEST RISK OF EMISSIONS IS BUILDINGS IN NEW YORK.

I WOULD THINK IT WOULD BE THE TRANSPORTATION SECTOR.

SO THIS PLAN INCLUDES A STRATEGY TO GET OUR BUILDINGS MORE EFFICIENT PLUS EMISSIONS.

HOW DO WE GET THERE?

>> WELL, CERTAINLY, BUILDINGS ARE NUMBER ONE WITH RESPECT TO GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS, BUT NO REGRETS.

TRANSPORTATION IS CLOSE BEHIND.

>> YEAH.

>> SO THESE ARE REALLY THE TWO BIGGEST CHALLENGES WE HAVE AS A STATE IN REALLY ADDRESSING THE THREAT OF CLIMATE CHANGE AND SPECIFICALLY ACHIEVING THE GOALS WITHIN THE CLIMATE LAW, AND WHEN WE THINK ABOUT BUILDINGS, FOR US, IT'S REALLY ABOUT HEALTH.

IT'S WHERE WE LIVE AND WORK.

IT'S REALLY ABOUT CREATING HEALTHIER BUILDINGS FOR PEOPLE TO LIVE AND WORK IN.

WE TALKED A LOT ABOUT THIS AS A CLIMATE ACTION COUNCIL AND CERTAINLY THE SCOPING PLAN REFLECTS THE INPUT OF THAT COUNCIL AND SPECIFICALLY, THE GOVERNOR HAS SET FORTH IN HER STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS REAL 13 INITIATIVES TO ACT ON THIS CHALLENGE AND SPECIFICALLY WITH RESPECT TO NEW CONSTRUCTION.

>> RIGHT.

>> SHE'S ADVANCED PROPOSAL TO ADVANCE ZERO EMISSION NEW CONSTRUCTION AND LOWER-RISE BUILDINGS BY 2025 AND HIGHER-RISE BUILDINGS BY 2028.

SO THAT'S SOON BUT NOT TOO SOON.

WE CAN CERTAINLY PLAN AROUND THAT, AND THEN WITH RESPECT TO EXISTING BUILDINGS, WE'RE REALLY LOOKING AT THE EQUIPMENT WITHIN THOSE BUILDINGS AND SPECIFICALLY HEATING EQUIPMENT.

AND FOR OUR HEATING EQUIPMENT, WE'RE LOOKING TO ADVANCE ZERO EMISSION HEATING EQUIPMENT IN 2030 FOR LOWER-RISE IN 2035.

FOR HIGH RISE, REALLY CAPTURING THE HEATING EQUIPMENT WHEN IT NEEDS TO BE CHANGED OUT.

>> SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BUILDINGS AND SMALL BUILDINGS, WE'RE ALSO TALKING ABOUT RESIDENTIAL BIDDINGS, HOMES.

IF I'M SOMEBODY WHO OWNS THEIR HOME RIGHT NOW, WILL I HAVE TO MAKE ANY CHANGES?

>> NO.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO MAKE CHANGES.

REALLY, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS CAPTURING WHEN YOUR FURNACE NEEDS TO BE REPLACED, SAY, IN A DECADE, THERE WILL BE HEAT PUMPS AND OTHER TECHNOLOGIES AVAILABLE TO REPLACE THAT FOSSIL FUEL EQUIPMENT.

14 >> OPPONENTS OF THIS STRATEGY-- I'LL GO YOU ON THIS ONE, BASIL.

OPPONENTS SAY, HOMES IN NEW YORK, WE HAVE A HOUSING SHORTAGE.

SO WE'RE GOING TO BUILDING A LOT OF HOUSING IN THE NEXT TEN YEARS, HOPEFULLY.

AND PEOPLE WILL SAY, WELL, RETROFITTING THESE HOMES WITH NEW TECHNOLOGIES WILL BE MORE EXPENSIVE.

ARE THERE WAYS THAT WE CAN OFFSET THOSE COSTS IN THIS PLAN, OR IS IT NOT AS EXPENSIVE AS PEOPLE MAY THINK?

>> WELL, I THINK IT'S A BIT OF BOTH, RIGHT.

I MEAN, TALK ABOUT EXPENSE AND COSTS GENERALLY, WE'RE ALREADY BEARING AN EXTRAORDINARY COSTS WHEN IT COMES TO CLIMATE CHANGE.

OUR HEALTH, RIGHT, THE EMISSIONS THAT WE BREATHE AND ALSO THE COSTS OF RESPONDING TO SEVERE WEATHER.

MULTIBILLION DOLLAR STORMS.

THOSE ARE SOME OF THE COSTS OUT THERE, JUST TO BE REALLY CLEAR ABOUT THAT.

WE'RE MAKING THAT TRANSITION IN A WAY, WE HAVE SPENT AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF TIME THINKING ABOUT THAT TRANSITION, HOW TO ADVANCE IT, HOW TO INCENTIVIZE IT, HOW TO OFFSET SOME OF THOSE COSTS.

THE GOVERNOR ADVANCED THE CAP AND INVEST IDEA THROUGH HER STATE OF THE STATE, AND THAT'S SOMETHING, I THINK THAT WE WOULD SEEK TO DEVELOP SOLUTIONS AROUND SO THAT WE CAN HELP NEW YORKERS MAKE THAT TRANSITION ULTIMATELY TO FRAY SOME OF 15 THOSE COSTS.

>> TALK TO ME ABOUT HOW THAT WORKS.

THE CAP AND INVEST, CAP AN INVESTOR.

YOU KNOW, IT'S KIND OF-- WE NEED TO FIGURE IT OUT, BUT WHO WOULD BE BUYING AND WHERE WOULD THAT MONEY GO, I GUESS?

>> SO CAP IS CAP ON EMISSIONS AND THAT CAP WOULD DECLINE OVER TIME, RIGHT.

THE INVESTMENT PART IS INVESTING IN RENEWABLE, LARGELY RENEWABLE POWER, CLEAN ENERGY, MAKING THAT TRANSITION WITH A PERCENTAGE OF THAT ALSO AS A REBATE AS THE GOVERNOR DISCUSSED DURING THE STATE OF THE STATE.

SO BASICALLY TO GET INTO THE CAP AND INVEST PROGRAM, RIGHT, TO BE A COVERED PARTY, WE HAVEN'T DEVELOPED ALL OF THE REGULATION ON THIS YET, OF COURSE.

THAT WILL HAPPEN THIS YEAR.

WE WOULD SET AN AUCTION PRICE AND SELL ALLOWANCES FOR LARGE FUEL SUPPLIERS INTO NEW YORK STATE, LARGE EMITTERS WOULD PURCHASE INTO THAT.

ULTIMATELY, THOSE PROCEEDS WOULD THEN FUND THIS TRANSITION.

SO THAT'S-- THAT'S THE MECHANICS OF IT.

WE'LL SPEND PROBABLY THE NEXT 12 MONTHS PULLING IT TOGETHER.

WE STARTED STAKEHOLDER MEETINGS ON IT ALREADY.

THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT CERTAINLY WOULD HELP DRIVE THIS TRANSITION OVER THE NEXT EIGHT, TEN YEARS.

>> I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT THE CAP WOULD GET LOWER OVER 16 TIME.

SO THAT'S A WAY TO TRANSITION AWAY FROM THESE FOSSIL FUELS AND MAYBE NOT HAVE A CAP AND INVEST PROGRAM DOWN THE ROAD AND JUST BE ON RENEWABLES.

AM I UNDERSTANDING THAT RIGHT?

>> THAT'S THE IDEA, YES.

>> SO THAT'S BUILDINGS.

CAP AND INVEST ISN'T JUST BUILDINGS.

BUT I WANT TO TURN TO VEHICLES NEXT.

I WILL GO BACK TO YOU, DOREEN, ON THIS.

I THINK EVERYBODY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE AN ELECTRIC CAR.

I DON'T KNOW.

THERE'S SOME PEOPLE WHO SAY THEY'RE NOT AS FAST OR WHATEVER.

I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE AN ELECTRIC CAR, BUT THEY'RE SO EXPENSIVE.

HOW DO WE GET OVER IT?

>> WELL, I SAW THE METRICS ACTUALLY FOR 2022.

10% OF LIGHT DUTY SALES WERE ELECTRIC LAST YEAR.

WHEN I THINK ABOUT THAT NUMBER, THAT'S AN INFLECTION POINT.

WHAT WE REALLY SEE IS SCALE, BUT ULTIMATELY WHEN WE THINK ABOUT REDUCING COSTS, WE THINK ABOUT, FIRST OF ALL, THE REBATES THAT ARE PROVIDED.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS REALLY STEPPED UP BETWEEN THE FEDERAL AND STATE REBATES, WE'RE APPROACHING $10,000 A VEHICLE.

>> WOW.

>> AT THIS POINT, BUT THEN WHEN WE SEE 10% TURN TO 20, 30, 40, THAT'S WHERE WE GET TO SCALE AND WE GET TO THE COST REDUCTIONS WE'RE REALLY 17 LOOKING FOR.

THAT'S THE COMBINATION THAT WILL BRING THAT ELECTRIC VEHICLE INTO YOUR FUTURE AND OF COURSE ACROSS NEW YORK.

>> DAN, I CAN TELL YOU.

I'M FORTUNATE TO HAVE ONE RIGHT NOW.

I LOOK AT THE APP THAT TELLS ME WHAT I'M SAVING ON GAS.

IT'S ABOUT $2,000 THIS YEAR ALONE.

IT'S REALLY INCREDIBLE.

>> I KNOW.

THAT'S WHAT I WANT.

FIRST OF ALL, I WANT TO SAVE MONEY ON GAS.

SECOND OF ALL, YOU KNOW, I DO HAVE A MECHANIC, AND IT JUST SEEMS LIKE AN ELECTRIC CAR WOULD BE EASIER FOR THEM TO FIX.

I CAN'T TELL YOU THAT REALLY.

>> YEAH.

>> NO BRAKES, NO FUEL FILTERS, RIGHT.

NO OIL CHANGES, REALLY, THE THING YOU HAVE TO WATCH ARE THE TIRES BECAUSE, IN FACT, THEY ARE A LITTLE BIT FASTER THAN YOUR AVERAGE VEHICLE.

>> ARE THEY REALLY?

>> YEAH.

>> THAT'S INTERESTING.

OUTSIDE OF VEHICLES KIND OF IN THIS WHOLE ENERGY SPACE, WE HAVE THIS BIGGER QUESTION OF THE STATE'S ELECTRIC GRID, TOO.

I THINK OUR GRID IS CONSIDERED ONE OF THE MORE RELIABLE IN THE COUNTRY, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN.

IS OUR GRID READY FOR THIS TRANSITION TO A MORE RENEWABLE ENERGY SPACE?

18 DOREEN, WE'LL GO TO YOU FIRST ON THAT ONE.

>> CERTAINLY.

THE COUNCIL SPENT A GOOD BIT OF TIME WORKING ON THIS, AND I KNOW THE COMMISSIONER AND MYSELF, ALONG WITH OUR COLLEAGUES AT THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND THE NEW YORK INDEPENDENT SYSTEM OPERATOR RECOGNIZE THAT WE ARE GOING TO BE RELYING ON OUR GRID MORE EXPANSIVELY.

NOT ONLY TO SUPPORT YOUR ELECTRIC VEHICLE AND THE HEAT PUMP IN YOUR HOME, BUT ALSO JUST FOR LOAD GROWTH, WE ARE EXPECTING TO EXPAND BUSINESSES ACROSS OUR STATE AND WE WANT TO SUPPORT THAT WITH RENEWABLE AND CLEAN ENERGY.

SO WE KNOW THIS TRANSITION NEEDS TO BE OCCURRING OVER THE COMING DECADE.

WE'VE BEEN WORKING TO DO SO FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS.

IN FACT, AT NYSERDA FOR MULTIPLE DECADES AND AS WE SPEAK, WE HAVE HUNDREDS OF PROJECTS IN DEVELOPMENT IN CONSTRUCTION ACROSS OUR STATE.

IT'S A TRANSITION THAT WON'T HAPPEN TOMORROW, BUT IT WILL HAPPEN OVER THE COMING DECADES AS THOSE PROJECTS COME ONLINE AND ARE CONSTRUCTED AND AS WE REDUCE THE USE OF FOSSIL FUELS AND ULTIMATELY ELIMINATE IT INTO 2040 AND 2050.

>> YOU KNOW, THERE ARE PEOPLE IN THE STATE WHO I CAN SEE BEING CONCERNED ABOUT THIS WHOLE DIRECTION THAT WE'RE GOING IN BECAUSE OF WHERE THEY LIVE.

PLACES LIKE THE ADIRONDACKS, VERY RURAL AREAS.

ALL THEY'VE 19 KNOWN THEIR ENTIRE LIFE IS HEATING THEIR HOMES ON OIL OR GAS.

SO WHEN THEY HEAR THEY MAY HAVE TO TRANSITION TO A NEW ENERGY, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, IT MIGHT GIVE THEM PAUSE.

WILL IT COST MORE?

WILL IT BE THERE IF I HAVE AN OUTAGE AND SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

DOREEN, I'LL GO TO YOU FIRST ON THIS ONE.

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THOSE PEOPLE?

>> I WAS ACTUALLY UP IN THE NORTH COUNTRY LAST WEEK FOR THE UNIVERSITY GAMES AND WHILE I WAS THERE, I ACTUALLY MET WITH A NUMBER OF HEAT PUMP INSTALLERS IN THE NORTH COUNTRY WHEN I WAS IN SARANAC LAKE, AND IT IS TRUE.

IT'S A DIFFERENT CLIMATE IN THE HIGH COUNTRY NOT ALL THAT DIFFERENT THAN THE CLIMATE IN NORTHERN EUROPE WHERE THEY ACTUALLY HAVE HEAVILY ELECTRIFIED THEIR HEATING SOURCES.

SO IT CAN BE DONE.

IT IS-- IT IS THE CASE THAT ONE NEEDS TO BOTH WEATHERIZE ONE'S HOME, SO IT NEEDS TO BE VERY EFFICIENT AND WHEN A HEAT PUMP IS INSTALLED FOR THOSE VERY COLD DAYS, OF COURSE, THERE MAY BE A NECESSITY FOR SOME BACKUP ON THOSE WOOD STOVES ARE NOTHING THAT'S GOING TO CHANGE IN THE NORTH COUNTRY AND CERTAINLY REALLY HAVING THAT COMBINATION OF HEAT PUMP ELECTRIFICATION AND BACKUP HEAT MAY BE NECESSARY, BUT I'LL TELL YOU, WHEN YOU GO TO NORWAY, IT'S JUST HEAT PUMPS ALL THE TIME.

>> THEY'RE MY PEOPLE.

I'M 20 FROM NORWAY.

>> THERE YOU ARE.

>> WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT HEAT PUMPS, IS THAT GEOENERGY WHERE THEY ARE INSTALLING IT TO GO DOWN WHERE IT'S WARMER AND BRING IT BACK UP INTO YOUR HOME?

>> IT CAN BE EITHER AN AIR SOURCE OR GROUND SOURCE HEAT PUMP.

REALLY DEPENDS ON THE TYPE OF BUILDING THAT YOU HAVE AND FRANKLY, YOUR INTEREST IN EXPLORING EITHER TECHNOLOGY.

EITHER ONE IS SUPPORT BY OUR CLIMATE LAW.

>> AND JUST IN TERMS OF THE FUNDING FOR THIS.

IN PUBLIC SPACES, OTHER PLACES LIKE THAT, THE STATE WILL BEAR, I'M ASSUMING, SOME COSTS TO MAKE THIS TRANSITION.

I THINK IT'S OVER A NUMBER OF YEARS SO THAT COST MAY NOT BE AS BIG AS PEOPLE MAY THINK YEAR TO YEAR.

BASIL, I WILL GO TO YOU ON THIS ONE.

SO WHERE DOES THAT MONEY COME FROM?

WE JUST PASSED THE ENVIRONMENTAL BOND ACT.

DOES IT COME FROM THERE, OR DOES THIS HAVE TO HAPPEN THROUGH THE STATE BUDGET?

WHERE DO WE GET THE MONEY?

>> IT'S PROBABLY ALL OF THE ABOVE HONESTLY.

IT'S PROBABLY THE CAP AND INVEST THAT WE WILL SEEK TO ADVANCE THIS YEAR AND GET IT INTO PLAY BY 2025, 2026.

IT'S RATE PAYERS ARE ALREADY PAYING SOME OF THIS TRANSITION NOW, THOSE WHO ARE PAYING UTILITY BILLS.

21 THE STATE BUDGET IS HELPING HERE AND THERE.

I MEAN WE HAVE MANY PROGRAMS ACROSS THE STATE THAT ARE ACTUALLY HELPING THIS TRANSITION ALREADY.

SOME ON BUDGET, SOME OFF BUDGET AND YES, THE BOND ACT WILL ALSO HELP.

THE BOND ACT IS LARGELY FOCUSED ON THE LANDSCAPE, RIGHT, SO YOU THINK ABOUT THE CLIMATE EFFECTS, FLOODING, LOSS OF OPEN SPACE, THINGS LIKE THAT.

YES, THAT'S WHERE WE SEEK TO PUT THE BULK OF THAT MONEY, BUT THERE IS AN IMPORTANT POT OF MONEY IN THE BOND ACT FOR THIS TRANSITION, GREENING SCHOOLS, MAKING THEM MORE ENERGY EFFICIENT, ELECTRIC BUSES, MAKING THAT TRANSITION MORE NOTEWORTHY AND ACCELERATED.

SO THE BOND ACT WILL BE HELPFUL.

REALLY, IT IS AN ALL-OF-THE-ABOVE APPROACH, AND ULTIMATELY, WE'RE LOOKING TO KEEP COSTS DOWN AND HELP NEW YORKERS MEET THE CHALLENGE OF ENERGY THESE DAYS WITH I IS EXTRAORDINARILY EXPENSIVE.

>> YEAH, I THINK PEOPLE GET SCARED ESPECIALLY IN THIS MOMENT WITH INFLATION AND ENERGY COSTS BEING UP, PEOPLE GET SCARED WHEN WE TALK ABOUT TRANSITIONING INTO NEW ENERGIES, BUT AS WE'VE SEEN IN NEW YORK, WE ARE DOING VERY BIG THINGS IN WIND.

WE HAVE NEW SOLAR PROJECTS ALL THE TIME, NEW RENEWABLE ENERGIES, SO I'M REALLY-- I'M JUST FASCINATED BY THE SCOPING PLAN.

I THINK IT'S AN INCREDIBLY HUGE DOCUMENT WITH A LOT OF 22 DETAILS THAT WE COULDN'T HASH OUT HERE FOR THESE 12 MINUTES UNFORTUNATELY.

BUT THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR TALKING ABOUT IT.

BASIL SAGE GOES FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONVERSATION, DOREEN HARRIS FROM NYSERDA, THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU, DAN.

GOOD TO BE HERE.

>> THANK YOU.

[ THEME MUSIC ] >> THE STATE WILL HAVE UNTIL THE START OF NEXT YEAR TO ENACT NEW REGULATIONS BASED ON THE SCOPING PLAN AND BEFORE WE LET YOU GO, A QUICK UPDATE ON A BILL WE'VE BEEN FOLLOWING HERE ON "NEW YORK NOW."

THE CLEAN SLATE ACT HAS BEEN REINTRODUCED AT THE STATE CAPITOL THIS YEAR.

IT'S A BILL THAT WOULD AUTOMATICALLY SEAL CRIMINAL CONVICTIONS FOR MOST CHARGES AFTER A WAITING PERIOD IF SOMEONE HAS SERVED THEIR ENTIRE SENTENCE, INCLUDING PROBATION.

THAT MEANS THAT IF YOU HAVE A CRIMINAL CONVICTION AND IT'S BEEN LONG ENOUGH, THIS BILL WOULD BLOCK IT FROM PUBLIC VIEW.

THERE WOULD BE AN EXCEPTION FOR SEX OFFENSES AND SUPPORTERS SAY SEALING THOSE CONVICTIONS WOULD PROVIDE NEW ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITIES FOR A LOT OF NEW YORKERS.

PAUL ZUBER IS FROM THE BUSINESS COUNCIL OF NEW YORK STATE.

23 >> SO HOW DO WE GROW ECONOMICALLY IF WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE TO FILL THE JOBS?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> NATIONWIDE, THERE ARE TEN MILLION OPEN JOBS AND ONLY SIX MILLION PEOPLE ABLE TO FILL THOSE JOBS.

SO WE GAVE EVERYBODY A JOB IN THE UNITED STATES, WE'D STILL BE FOUR MILLION SHORT.

I THINK IN NEW YORK STATE, IT'S SOMETHING LIKE 500,000 UNFULFILLED JOBS.

SO WHY ARE WE KEEPING PEOPLE OUT OF THE ECONOMY?

IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

>> OPPONENTS OF THE BILL ARGUE THAT BUSINESS OWNERS SHOULD BE ABLE TO NOT HIRE SOMEONE IF THEY HAVE A CRIMINAL RECORD AND THAT INFORMATION SHOULD BE PUBLIC.

WE'LL LET YOU KNOW IF THAT BILL STARTS TO MOVE THIS YEAR.

WE ARE OUT OF TIME FOR THE WEEK.

THANKS FOR WATCHING THIS WEEK'S "NEW YORK NOW."

HAVE A GREAT WEEK AND BE WELL.

[ THEME MUSIC ] >>Announcer: FUNDING FOR "NEW YORK NOW" IS PROVIDED BY WNET.