>> Renee: GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO "KENTUCKY TONIGHT."

I'M RENEE SHAW.

THANK YOU NORV JOINING US.

TONIGHT A DISCUSSION ABOUT CHILD ABUSE AND NEGLECT.

IN KENTUCKY THE NUMBERS ARE DISTURBING.

KENTUCKY'S LED THE NATION IN THE RATE OF CHILD ABUSE FOR THREE CONSECUTIVE YEARS.

IN A MOTION RECENT REPORT AN INDEPENDENT PANEL REVIEWED A TOTAL OF 200 CHILD ABUSE AND NEGLECT CASES.

80 KIDS DIED AND 120 CAME CLOSE WITH LIFE-THREATENING INJURIES.

NEARLY HALF OF ALL CASES REVIEWED FOUND SUBSTANCE ABUSE IN THE HOME AND 69% OF THOSE CASES, THE FAMILY HAD A PREVIOUS HISTORY WITH SOCIAL SERVICES IN THE STATE.

DRUG USE, POVERTY, SOCIAL WORKER SHORTAGES AND SCREENING OUT REFERRALS FOR CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES ARE AMONG THE CONTRIBUTORS TO CHILD ABUSE DEATHS OR NEAR FATALITIES.

A MEASURE BEFORE THE KENTUCKY GENERAL ASSEMBLY TAKES AIM AT THOSE CHILD MALTREATMENT RATES AND FOCUSES MORE ON PREVENTION WEEK ACCESS TO CRITICAL MEDICAL EXAMINATIONS, MORE OPPORTUNITIES FOR YOUTH AGING OUT OF FOSTER CARE AND SO MUCH MORE.

AND TO DISCUSS CHILD ABUSE AND NEGLECT AND WHAT CAN BE DONE WE'RE JOINED IN OUR LEXINGTON STUDIO BY: SECRETARY ERIC FRIEDLANDER OF KENTUCKY CABINET FOR HEALTH AND FAMILY SERVICES.

REPRESENTATIVE JONI JENKINS, HOUSE MINORITY FLOOR LEADER AND A DEMOCRAT AND SHIVELYY.

THE SENATOR JULIE RAQUE ADAMS JEWEL SENATE MAJORITY CAUCUS CHAIR AND A REPUBLICAN FROM LOUISVILLE.

IN OUR LOUISVILLE STUDIO, DR. MELISSA L. CURRIE, medical DIRECTOR NORTON CHILDREN'S PEDIATRIC PROTECTION SPECIALIST AND THE KOSAIR CHARITIES PROFESSOR AND ENDOWED SHARE NOR PEDIATRIC FORENSIC MEDICINE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF LOUISVILLE SCHOOL OF PLED SIN.

AND DEBORAH YETTER, SOCIAL SERVICES REPORTER FOR THE COURIER-JOURNAL.

AND JOINING US BY SKYPE, TERRY BROOKS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE KENTUCKY YOUTH ADVOCATES.

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WE THANK YOU.

WE DO HAVE A LOT OF GUESTS FOR THIS SHOW BUT IT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE I KNOW THAT SENATOR RAQUE ADAMS HAS WORKED WITH ALL OF THESE FOLKS AND HAS BEEN REALLY STEADFAST ON THIS ISSUE.

SO WE'RE GOING TO START WITH YOU, SECRETARY FREED LANDER BECAUSE AS ONE WHO HAS THE CABINET AND YOU'RE CHARGED WITH PRESENTING THESE KIDS AND HELPING DISFRESSED FAMILIES FAMILIES TO FIND THEMSELVES DISTRESSED WITH A MYRIAD OF PROBLEMS WHAT'S NOT WORKING?

YOU HEARD THOSE STATISTICS THAT STARTED OFF THE PROGRAM.

75 OF 80 OF THOSE DEATHS WERE POTENTIALLY PREVENTABLE.

IN TWO-THIRDS OF THOSE CASES THE FAMILY HAD PREVIOUS INVOLVEMENT WITH THE STATE SOCIAL SERVICES SYSTEM.

SO WHAT'S NOT WORKING RIGHT NOW?

>> OH, MY.

THERE ARE A LOT OF FACTOR THAT GO INTO THAT.

CERTAINLY YOU MENTIONED SUBSTANCE USE, WHICH WE HAVE SEEN TREMENDOUS CHALLENGES.

YOU MENTIONED SOCIAL WORKERS WHOM WE HAVE UNDER-INVESTED IN FOR A DECADE, AT LEAST, MAYBE TWO, AS WELL AS THEN PREVENTION SERVICES.

WE ALWAYS REACT TO THE CRISIS AND WE REALLY NEED TO GET UPSTREAM.

I THINK THERE ARE POSSIBILITIES FOR THAT, CERTAINLY SOME FUNDING HAS BEEN PROVIDED TO THE CABINET, AND THIS BUDGET SEEMS MUCH BETTER, AS WELL AS THEN THE FOLKS THAT WE WORK -- THIS IS LIKE A GATHERING OF COLLEAGUES.

WE HAVE SO MANY FOLKS HERE ON THIS PANEL WHO HAVE DONE SO MUCH TO ADDRESS AND TACKLE ABUSE AND NEGLECT IN KENTUCKY.

SO THERE ARE MANY, MANY FACTORS.

ISOLATION, AS I'M AFRAID WE'RE GOING TO SEE, AS WELL AS JUST THAT GENERAL INVESTMENT IN PREVENTION.

GENERAL INVESTMENT IN MAKING SURE THAT WE CAN PROVIDE PEOPLE SERVICES THAT THEY NEED TO HELP THEM GET OUT OF POVERTY, TO GET OUT OF DESPERATE SITUATIONS TWO ADDRESS SUBSTANCE USE, AS WELL AS THEN THE INVESTMENTS IN OUR WORKFORCE.

>> SO HOW HAS THE COVID PANDEMIC CREATED NEW CHALLENGES OR NEW OBSTACLES?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

CERTAINLY.

COVID IS I LOOK TO CALL AT THIS TIME PERFECT STORM.

IT'S ECONOMIC CHALLENGE.

IT'S UNCERTAINTY.

IT'S ISOLATION.

OUR NORMAL PATH WAYS OF REPORTING ARE NOT THERE, ARE GREATLY DIMINISHED WE SEE ACROSS THE BOARD THAT THESE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT STIR STIR UP THE SORT OF ABUSE AND NEGLECT BECAUSE PARENTS ARE DESPERATE, AND WE SEE THAT WHERE IT'S REALLY SHOWING ITS HEAD IS WHERE WE TALK ABOUT OVERDOSE AND OVERDOSE DEATHS.

WE'VE SEEN A SPIKE IN KENTUCKY.

AND THIS IS JUST ONE MORE THING THAT REALLY ADDS TO THE PRESSURES THAT FAMILIES HAVE BEEN FEELING.

>> DR. CURRIE, YOU'RE A FOUNDING MEMBER OF CHILD FATAL AND NEAR FATAL REVIEW BOARD, AND THE KATES THAT YOU'RE SEEING NOW, ARE THEY MORE SEVERE -- CASES THAT YOU'RE SEEING NOW, THEY MORE SEVERE THAN INNERS I DO NOT PAST?

>> I THINK THEY ARE.

WE HAVE SEEN AN UPTICK IN THE NUMBER OF CASES OF TORTURE IN YOUNG CHILDREN.

AND I THINK THE PANDEMIC IS ONLY GOING TO SHOW THAT GETTING WORSE.

THE PANDEMIC, AS SECRETARY FRIEDLANDER SAID, HAS NOT BEEN A FRIEND TO FAMILIES, I'M AFRAID.

>> TODDLERS AND INFANTS, IS THAT WHERE WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF THIS ABUSE?

AND CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THE DISOVER.

RACIAL OF AFRICAN AMERICANS REALLY BEING AFFECTED AT RESPIRATORY RATES WHEN IT COMES TO CHILD PUSE AND NEGLECT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

SO OUR MOST SEVERE CASES, THE NEAR FATALITIES AND THE FATALITIES EXTENDED TO BE IN CHILDREN LESS THAN FOUR YEARS OF AGE, SO WE SEE A HIGH CONCENTRATION IN OUR YOUNGEST KIDS OF THE MOST SEVERE CASES OF PHYSICAL ABUSE AND NEGLECT AS WELL.

AND THEN NATIONALLY, YES, WE ABSOLUTELY SEE A DISPROPORTIONALITY WHERE AFRICAN AMERICAN CHILDREN ARE AFFECTED AT EVERY LEVEL OF THE CHILD PELL FARE SYSTEM AT DISPROPORTION ITERATES FROM BEING REPORTED MORE OFTEN TO HAVING MORE FREQUENT SUBSTANTIATION TO BEING REMOVED MORE OFTEN AND ONCE, AGING OUT OF FOSTER CARE.

>> SO THE CONTINUUM OF IS FOR EXISTS.

I RIGHT THAT CHILDHOOD RATES HAVE FALLEN SINCE 2018 AND WHY ISN'T THAT GOOD NEWS?

>> WELL, I THINK PARTICULARLY AS IT PERTAINS TO THE PANDEMIC, AS THE SECRETARY MENTIONED JUST A MOMENT AGO, THE REASON WE'RE SEEING A DECREASE IN THOSE REPORTS IS BECAUSE WE HAVE FEWER EYES ON CHILDREN.

CHILDREN HAVEN'T BEEN IN SCHOOLS, THEY HAVEN'T BEEN IN DAYCARES, THEY HAVEN'T BEEN SEEN BY FRIENDS AND FAMILY, YOU KNOW, AND THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE WE RELY UPON TO MAKE THE REPORTS WHEN THERE ARE CONCERNS FOR ABUSE OR NEGLECT.

SO WE'RE JUST NOW BEGINNING TO SEE SOME OF THE NUMBERS FROM WHEN THE PANDEMIC STARTED, AND IT IS CERTAINLY MAKING IT LOOK AS THOUGH CHILD ABUSE HAS DECREASED BUT CERTAINLY IN OUR PROGRAM AT UofL AND NORTON CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL WE HAVE NOH NOT SEEN A DECREASING.

>> DEBORAH YETTER, YOUR SEATMATE IN THE KET OPERATIONS, YOU'VE WRITTEN SO MUCH ABOUT THIS, AND YOU KNOW YOU'RE MY SHERO JOURNAL SICLY AND YOU HAVE DEDICATED YOUR CAREER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES REPORT.

>> AND THE SERIES YOU HAVE DONE TIME AND TIME AGAIN ABOUT THIS PIRN YOU'VE SHARED WITH US BEFORE THE PROPOSE WEEP PERSISTING, THAT YOU KEEP WRITING THE SAME HEADLINE OVER OVER AGAIN.

WHERE DO YOU SEE THOSE PERSIST GASP?

>> WELL, AS PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY MENTIONED ON THE SHOW TONIGHT WITH POVERTY IN KENTUCKY CONTINUES TO BE EXTREME.

I THINK THE PANELS REPORT THAT DR. CURRIE HAS FOUND THAT NEARLY HALF THE KIDS IN KENTUCKY ARE IN WHAT ARE CONSIDERED LOW-INCOME FAMILIES.

POVERTY, OF COURSE, IS NOT A SIGN OF ABUSE BUT IT ADDS TO STRESSES ON FAMILIES THAT MAY ALREADY BE STRUGGLING WITH THINGS LIKE DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, ALCOHOLISM, MENTAL HEALTH, OTHER SUBSTANCE ISSUES.

AND THE SYSTEM HAS BEEN KIND OF PATCHED TOGETHER FOR YEARS.

FOR OVER TWO DECADES THEY HAVE TALKED WITH INCREASING FUNDING, AND THEN A BUDGET CRISIS WOULD HIT AND FUNDS WOULD GET CUT AGAIN AND SERVICES IN TO FAMILIES, THE DRUG COURTS WERE DISCONTINUED, FAMILY DRUG COURTS WERE DISCONTINUED IN 2010.

SO, YEAH, PERIODICALLY SOMEONE WILL COME THROUGH AND TRY TO PATCH TOGETHER MORE SOLUTIONS OR ADD, BUT IT'S JUST, I THINK, RESOURCES AND THE STATE'S OVERWHELMING PROBLEMS IN SO MANY AREAS.

>> SENATOR JULIE RAQUE ADAMS, THIS IS A GOOD SEGUE TO YOU.

SO IF PATCHWORK APPROACH THAT'S BEEN USED SO MANY YEARS HERE IN KENTUCKY TO ADDRESS THIS, DOES YOUR SENATE BILL 8 DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT AND NOT JUST A PATCHWORK OF SOLUTIONS BUT A MORE OVERHAUL?

>> WELL, THAT WAS DEFINITELY THE INTENT OF SENATE BILL 8, WAS TO HAVE A GLOBAL LOOK AT HOW, FROM A POLICY PERSPECTIVE, WE ARE HANDLING CHILD ABUSE AND NEGLECT.

AND IN FACT, WE SPENT THE ENTIRE INTERIM IN THE CHILD WELFARE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE, WHICH WAS A RESULT OF A BILL THAT REPRESENTATIVE JENKINS PASSED.

SO BECAUSE OF THAT COMMITTEE THAT WAS ESTABLISHED WITHIN THE THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, WE SPENT THE ENTIRE INTERIM LOOKING AT IT, AND THAT WAS THE CONCLUSION WE CAME TO.

IF WE ARE GOING TO ATTACK THIS FROM A POLICY PERSPECTIVE AND, LIKE DEBBIE SAID, FROM A FINANCIAL PERSPECTIVE, LET'S LOOK AT IT -- LET'S GO FOR IT.

AND SO THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT COMPONENTS TO THE BILL.

IT'S A 49-PAGE BILL.

IT HAS LIKE 28 SECTIONS TO IT.

IT HAS AN EMERGENCY CLAUSE WHICH I THINK IS REALLY -- >> WHICH MEANS IT GOES INTO EFFECT IMMEDIATELY?

>> YES.

I THINK IT JUST GOES TO APPROVE THAT WE CAN'T WAIT AROUND ANY LONGER.

IT IS ALL HANDS ON DECK, AND WE HAVE GOT TO TACKLE THIS ISSUE.

AND IT'S NOT JUST A POLICY ISSUE.

FOR ME THIS IS A VALUES-BASED ISSUE.

AS A STATE, WE NEED TO PLACE AN EMPHASIS ON REALLY GETTING THIS CHILD WELFARE CORRECT.

BECAUSE IT GOES TO OUR CORE VALUES.

>> IS IT ABOUT MORE MONEY INTO THE SOCIAL SERVICES SYSTEM AND HIRING MORE SOCIAL WORKERS AND PAYING THEM BETTER?

>> THERE IS -- THERE IS NO WAY THAT YOU CAN GET AROUND THE FINANCIAL COMPONENT TO THIS, AND, YOU KNOW, I ALWAYS SAY ABUSED AND NEGLECTED KIDS DON'T COME UP TO FRANKFORT TO LOBBY FOR MONEY, AND I HAVE BEEN -- IT'S SO FRUSTRATING BECAUSE IT'S LIKE THE FIRST PLACES THAT WE FIND TO CUT ARE HUMAN SERVICES, AND THAT REALLY SHOULD BE THE LAST PLACE THAT WE CUT.

THAT'S WHERE OUR INVESTMENT IS IN OUR FUTURE, ARE IN THOSE BUDGETS.

AND SO IT'S GOING TO TAKE A REAL COMMITMENT, AND I THINK THAT FINALLY OUR NUMBERS ARE SO DISMAL THAT I JUST DON'T THINK THAT ANYONE CAN IGNORE THAT WE NOT ONLY HAVE A POLICY IMPORTANCE TO TAKE CARE OF BUT WE ALSO HAVE A FINANCIAL COMPONENT TO TAKE CARE OF.

>> AND DOES SENATE BILL 8 PROVIDE THAT SIZABLE FINANCIAL COMPONENT AND INVESTMENT?

>> WELL, IN SENATE BILL 8 WHAT WE SPEAK TO IN PARTICULAR IS RAISING THE REIMBURSEMENT RATES, THE MEDICAID REIMBURSEMENT RATES WHICH HAVE NOT BEEN TOUCHED IN OVER 20 YEARS FOR COST OF ACTUAL CARE.

AND THAT'S SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE A SUSPECTED ABUSE OR NEGLECT OR SEXUAL ABUSE AND THEY GO TO A CHILD ADVOCACY CENTER, THOSE CHILD ADVOCACY CENTERS ARE SPENDING THOSE PRIVATE DOLLARS THAT THEY'RE RAISING TO TAKE CARE OF THAT FORENSIC EXAM FOR THAT CHILD.

THAT SHOULD BE OUR RESPONSIBILITY.

WE SHOULD RAISE THOSE REIMBURSEMENT RATES.

WE SHOULD COVER ACTUAL COST OF CARE.

WE SHOULD MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS ACCESS FOR ALL OF KENTUCKY KIDS IN THESE ADVOCACY CENTERS.

SO THAT'S ONE PIECE OF IT.

>> AND PREVENTION IS A BIG PART?

>> I MEAN, WE HAVE INCREDIBLE PREVENTION PARTNERS ACROSS THIS COMMONWEALTH, INCREDIBLE, AND WE'VE GOT TO ENGAGE THEM MORE IN THE THINGS THAT THEY DO BEST.

THE SECRETARY TALKED ABOUT THE DCPS AND THE SOCIAL WORKER ASPECT.

THAT'S GOING TO BE TAKEN CARE OF IN THAT PART OF THE BUDGET, BUT I APPLAUD THE GOVERNOR AND I APPLAUD THE SECRETARY TO REALLY FOCUS ON THAT.

IT'S GOING TO TAKE MONEY.

IT'S GOING TO TAKE COMMITMENT.

>> SO I'M GOING TO GO TO LEADER JENKINS.

THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US BECAUSE THIS HAS BEEN AN ISSUE THAT YOU HAVE DEALT WITH FOR A LONG TIME AND YOU'VE BEEN A PART OF FOSTER CARE AND ADOPTION TASK FORCES AND COMING UP WITH SOLUTIONS.

SO WHEN YOU HEAR THIS LATEST CHILD FATAL, NEAR FATAL REPORT AND YOU LOOK AT THAT THE BILL 8, DO YOU THINK FINALLY KENTUCKY IS ABOUT TO GET IT RIGHT?

>> I REALLY THINK THE WORK IN SENATE BILL 8 IS EXTRAORDINARY, AND I THINK IT SETS US ON THE RIGHT PATH, BUT YEAR AFTER YEAR THE LEGISLATURE HAS TO BE COMMITTED TO MAKING SURE IT'S FUNDED, AND THAT'S ONE THING WE SEE A PROBLEM, WE TRY TO FIXED IT, AND THEN IT KIND OF GOES OFF THE SHELF AND SOMETHING ELSE COMES.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT FUTURE LEGISLATORS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE FOCUSED ON.

SOME OF THE PARTS OF THIS THAT I REALLY LIKE ARE THE YOUTH VOICES IN IT.

YOU HAVE TO TALK TO KIDS THAT HAVE BEEN IN THE SYSTEM TO LEARN SOME OF THE PROBLEMS THAT THEY'RE HAVING.

I SHARED WITH THEM TODAY A STORY THAT ALWAYS STICKS WITH ME.

I WAS TALKING TO A YOUNG WOMAN WHO WAS AGING OUT, AND SHE SAID, "MY MOM HAD ADDICTION PROBLEMS AND MY OPGRANDE MA WAS RAISING ME.

GRANDMA DIDN'T HAVE MUCH MONEY.

THE HOUSE CLEANS WASN'T CLEAN.

BUT THE STATE TOOK ME FROM A HOUSE WHERE SOMEBODY LOVED ME AND PUT ME INTO A HOUSE WHERE SOMEBODY DIDN'T LOVE ME."

SO WHAT DIFFERENCES COULD HAVE BEEN MADE IN THAT YOUNG WOMAN'S LIFE IF WE HAD HELPED GRANDMA WITH RESOURCES.

SO I THINK LISTENING TO THOSE KIND OF ISSUES, THERE ARE SOMETIMES WHEN COULD HAVE HAD TO BE REMOVED FOR THEIR OWN SAFETY BUT LET'S MAKE THAT AS RARE AS POSSIBLE.

>> SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT, THAT MAJOR PORTION OF THE BILL.

HOW DOES IT GREASE THAT?

>> YEAH, TO ME I THINK THIS IS THE MOST EXCITING PIECE OF THE BILL BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THE DEFINITION IS WE CAN ONLY INTERVENE WHEN THEY'RE AT IMMINENT RISK.

THIS BILL CHANGES THAT TO MODERATE RISK.

SO IF YOU HAVE A MOM THAT'S ADDICTED TO DRUGS OR A DAD WHO IS AN ALCOHOLIC, RATHER THAN PLUCK THE KIDS OUT IMMEDIATELY AND PUT THEM INTO FOSTER CARE, BECAUSE THEY'RE AT MODERATE RISK WE CAN INTERVENE AND GET DAD THE HELP HE NEEDS OR GET MOM THE HELP SHE NEEDS, HAVE THOSE WRAPAROUND SERVICES SO THAT WE HEAL THE FAMILY, WE FIXED THE FAMILY, AND WE KEEP THE FAMILY WHOLE.

IN MY OPINION, JUST TRYING TO CHANGE THE PARADIGM SHIFT FROM TAKING THE CHILD OUT TO HEALING THE FAMILY IS SO CRITICAL TO HAVING REALLY A LOT OF PROGRESS IN ALL AREAS, AS WE WALK THROUGH THIS.

>> LET ME GET TO DR. TERRY BROOKS WITH THE KENTUCKY YOUTH ADVOCATES.

I WANT TO ASK YOU, SIR, WHAT DO YOU LIKE ABOUT SENATE BILL 8?

WHAT'S MISSING, IN YOUR OPINION?

WHAT DO YOU HOPE MAYBE THE HOUSE WILL INTERJECT WHEN THE BILL IS CONSIDERED THERE?

>> THANKS, RENEE.

FIRST FAM, AS ALWAYS, SENATOR RAQUE ADAMS, JUST LIKE REPRESENTATIVE JENKINS, IS SUCH A POWERFUL VOICE FOR CHILDREN.

WHAT I THINK JULIE HAS DONE SO WELL IN SENATE BILL 8 IS THINK ABOUT CHILD WELFARE, WHICH IS REALLY THE LARGER FRAME FOR MALTREATMENT, IN A COMPREHENSIVE WAY.

SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION, IT, FOR INSTANCE, STRENGTHENS KINSHIP CARE.

IT EXPANDS THE USE OF FICTIVE CARE WITHIN THAT STRATEGY.

I'M INFOMERCIALY ENCOURAGED BY HER ATTENTION TO YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ARE AGING OUT OF CARE.

THERE ARE PROVISIONS IN THIS BILL THAT REALLY PUT THOSE YOUNG PEOPLE ON A PATH TO SUCCESS, AND I THINK IT'S SO IMPORTANT, RENEE, AND I CANNOT AGREE MORE WITH OUR PANELISTS ABOUT THE FINDINGS IN THE CHILD FATALITY REPORT.

WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE SUCH SIGNIFICANT CHALLENGES WE FACE, BUT I DO WANT TO JUST OFFER SORT OF A WORD OF ENCOURAGEMENT.

DR. CURRIE REFERENCED THE RECENTLY RELEASED HHS REPORT, AND WHILE I UNDERSTAND THE CONCERNS ABOUT REPORTING DURING THE PANDEMIC, IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT AS WE LOOK AT KENTUCKY KENTUCKY, AS COMPARED TO THE OTHER 49 STATES, WE ACTUALLY LOOKED AS IF WE ARE IMPROVING AT A BETTER RATE THAN THE NATIONAL AVERAGE, AND THAT'S BEEN A LONG TIME COMING.

I WOULD SUGGEST THAT IT'S BECAUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE JENKINS AND SENATOR RAQUE ADAMS, STATE LEADERS LIKE SECRETARY FRIEDLANDER, THE CURRENT COMMISSIONER, AND THAN IT TO BE REALLY CLEAR THAT IN THE PREVIOUS BEVIN ADMINISTRATION, BOTH THE COMMISSIONERS WERE OUTSTANDING.

WE HAVE SEEN SOME PROGRESS.

JUST A FEW YEARS AGO, SCHOOLS DID NOT HAVE TO DO A BACKGROUND CHECK BEFORE THEY HIRED EMPLOYEES.

THAT GOT CHANGED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

A FEW YEARS AGO MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS, EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATORS, THE K-12 PROFESSIONALS WERE NOT REQUIRED TO DO TRAINING AROUND IDENTIFYING ABUSE AND NEGLECT.

I CAN DOCUMENT 12 TO 14 BILLS THAT HAVE PASSED IN THE LAST FOUR OR FIVE YEARS AS REPRESENTATIVE JENKINS KNOWS, THOSE HAVE BEEN VERY BIPARTISAN IN BOTH THE HOUSE AND SENATE.

SO I DO BELIEVE THAT KENTUCKIANS ARE ON THE RIGHT PATH.

IS IT A HUGE ISSUE?

ABSOLUTELY.

AS SECRETARY FRIEDLANDER POINTED OUT, KIDS DON'T GROW UP IN SILOS.

MALTREATMENT DOES NOT COME IN SILOS.

WHETHER IT'S HOUSING QUALITY, PARENTAL INCARCERATION POVERTY, ALL THOSE PLAY A ROLE.

BUT I DO WANT TO OFFER THE FACT THAT OUR ELECTED LEADERS AND OUR STATE LEADERS IN THE CABINET HAVE BEEN PRODUCING SUCCESS, AND I THINK THAT STORY DOESN'T GET TOLD ENOUGH.

I THINK OUR LEGISLATORS DON'T GET -- SO SENATE BILL 8 I THINK IS A COMPREHENSIVE APPROACH.

IT'S A GAME-CHANGING APPROACH, WHETHER IT'S AGING OUT OF KINSHIP CARE.

I LIKE THE EXPANDED OVERSIGHT BOARD.

I THINK THE CHANGING DEFINITIONS THAT SENATOR RAQUE ADAMS PROVIDED AROUND NEGLECT ARE ALL REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT PIECES, AND SHE AND HER COLLEAGUES NEED TO BE COMMENDED FOR A GREAT PIECE OF WORK.

>> I DO WANT TO GO TO A TERM THAT WE OFTEN HEAR BUT MAY NOT ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT IT MEANS, AND WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT FICTIVE KIN, AND I KNOW THIS HAS BEEN AN ISSUE THAT YOU'VE REALLY BEEN ON, DR. BROOKS, CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT YOU MEANT BY THAT.

>> SURE.

FOR SEVERAL YEARS WE HAVE BEEN CHAMPIONS OF THE SKETCH KINSHIP CARE.

IF A LITTLE BOY OR A LITTLE GIRL CAN'T STAY WITH MOM OR DAD FOR MAYBE THE WORST OF ALL REASONS, WE BELIEVE THAT THE NEXT BEST SHOT IN MANY CASES IS STAYING WITH FAMILY.

AGAIN, BECAUSE OF LEADERSHIP IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, WE EXPANDED THE DEFINITION TO GO BEYOND GRANDMA AND GRANDPA OR AN AUNT AND UNCLE.

A FICTIVE KIN AND SECRETARY FRIEDLANDER, YOU HELP ME OUT IF I GET THIS WRONG, BUT ESSENTIALLY REFERS TO FOLKS WHO HAVE AN EMOTIONAL TIE TO THAT FAMILY.

IT COULD BE A GODMOTHER.

IT COULD BE A GODFATHER, A NEIGHBOR, SOMEBODY WITH A CONNECTION AND IT PROVIDES JUST A BROADER NET SO THAT YOUNG CHILDREN THAT HAVE TO BE REMOVE FROM THE HOME PERHAPS ARE PLACED WITH THAT CARING ADULT THAT THEY HAVE SOME CONNECTION WITH.

KENTUCKY HAS OVER 100,000 KIDS IN KINSHIP CARE TODAY.

AGAIN, SECRETARY FRIEDLANDER AND HIS COLLEAGUES HAVE DONE A GREAT JOB OF STRENGTHENING THAT STRATEGY.

AND GOING BACK TO WHAT SENATOR RAUK I ADAMS SAID, THERE ARE CERTAINLY MOMENTS WHEN KIDS HAVE TO BE TAKEN FROM HOME.

IF WE CAN PREVENT THAT, IF WE CAN PRESERVE THE FAMILY, THAT'S GREAT.

BUT KINSHIP OFFERS THAT BRIDGE BETWEEN PULLING A KID TOTALLY FROM THEIR FAMILY AND LEAVING THEM IN PERHAPS AN UNSAFE ENVIRONMENT.

>> DEBORAH YETTER, I WANT TO GO TO YOU, AND NOT THAT I WANT YOU TO GIVE US YOUR OPINION ABOUT SENATE BILL 8, BUT WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT IN THE CONTEXT OF ALL YOU'VE COVERED, HOW DO YOU ASSESS HOW EFFECTIVE THIS COULD BE IN DEALING WITH CHILD MALTREATMENT IN KENTUCKY?

>> WELL, I THINK I DEFINITELY THINK IT TAKES A BROADER APPROACH TO THE ISSUE.

IN PAST YEARS WE'VE PASSED'S BILL HERE, A BILL THERE, AND THEY KIND OF BIT OFF LITTLE PIECES OF OF THE CHILD WELFARE SYSTEM BUT THIS DOES TAKE AN OVERALL VIEW OF TRYING TO UPDATE LAWS, EXPAND WHERE, IMPROVE WHERE IT CAN, FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE AREA OF INCREASING PAYMENTS FOR CHILD ABUSE EXAMS AT THE CHILD ADVOCACY CENTERS.

THE LEGISLATURE CREATED THOSE 20 YEARS AGO TO TREAT KIDS WHO ARE SUSPECTED OF CHILD ABUSE, SEXUAL ABUSE, BUT THE FUNDING HAS NOT KEPT UP WITH THE COST OF THE EXAMS THEY REQUIRE.

IN OTHER AREAS I THINK BROADENING THE RIGHTS OF KIDS IN FOSTER CARE IS AN IMPORTANT STEP BECAUSE YOU DO HEAR STORIES FROM KIDS WHO AGE OUT OF THE PROCESS THAT KIND OF MAKE YOUR HAIR STAND ON END, AND THEY REALLY DON'T HAVE A VOICE AT THE TIME WHEN THEY ARE IN THE MIDST OF IT UNTIL THEY GET OLD ENOUGH TO SPEAK UP FOR THEMSELVES AND THEY'RE OUT OF THE SYSTEM.

SO I THINK THE DIFFERENCE HERE MAYBE IS JUST SORT OF AN OVERALL TUNE-UP OF THE CHILD WELFARE LAWS AND DOES KIND OF TAKE AIM AT SOME AREAS THAT REALLY NEED SOME WORK.

>> DR. CURRIE, THE REPORT, THE CHILD FATALITY AND NEAR FATALITY REPORT ALWAYS ISSUES ITS RECOMMENDATIONS.

SOME ARE INCLUDED IN SENATE BILL 8, SOME ARE NOT.

SO WHAT DO YOU APPLAUD SENATOR RAQUE ADAMS FOR AND WHAT DO YOU HOPE MAY BE REVISED TO BE INCLUDED AS NOT, ACCORDING TO RECOMMENDATIONS THAT INDEPENDENT PANEL HAS MADE?

>> I CERTAINLY APPLAUD SENATOR RAQUE ADAMS FOR HER WORK ON THE BILL.

I THINK IT DOES TAKE A WIDER VIEW OF THE CHILD WELFARE SYSTEM AS A WHOLE.

I DO THINK EXPANSION OF THE FAMILY PRESERVATION SERVICES TO CHILDREN WHO ARE AT MODERATE RISK IS VERY, VERY IMPORTANT.

I THINK TAKING THE DEFINITION OF NEGLECT TO EXCLUDING POVERTY SO THAT A CHILD IS NOT BEING DEEMED NEGLECTED JUST BECAUSE THE CHILD'S LIVING IN POVERTY IS ALSO EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.

I THINK THAT THERE ARE SOME ADDITIONAL MEASURES THAT SOME OTHER LEGISLATORS ARE ADDRESSING SEPARATELY.

ONE WOULD BE DRUG TESTING OF PARENTS WHEN THERE'S A SUDDEN UNEXPECTED DEATH OF A CHILD.

WE HAVE FOUND EVIDENCE THAT THE PANEL IN REVIEWING THESE CASES, THAT MANY TIMES THERE IS EVIDENCE OF SUBSTANCE USE DISORDERS OR OTHER EVIDENCE THAT PARENTS MAY HAVE BEEN UNDER THE INFLUENCE OR IMPAIRED AT THE TIME CHILDREN ARE DYING IN THEIR CARE.

AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE REALLY DON'T HAVE A GREAT HANDLE ON JUST YET BECAUSE WEIR NOT ROUTINELY TENSE PARENTS.

AND, YOU KNOW, WE YOU ROUTINE TEST FOLKS HER IN FATAL CAR CRASHES OR INDUSTRIAL ACCIDENTS.

IT MAKES SENSE THAT WE WOULD TEST FOLKS IN THE SETTING OF AN UNEXPECTED CHILD DEATH.

>> AND THAT MEASURE WAS TAKEN CARE OF IN SENATE BILL 97, SENATOR DANNY CARROLL, WESTERN KENTUCKY, IS THE SPONSOR THAT OF BILL, AND IT PASSED THE SENATE TODAY WITH ONE NO VOTE, SO ARE YOU PLEASED WITH THIS MEASURE, SENATOR RAKE ADAMS?

>> YES, I AM.

THE OTHER THING I WANT TO ADD ABOUT DR. CURRIE AND HER WORK IN THE CHILD ILL FATALITY AND NEAR FATALITY TASK FORCE, THAT IS SUCH A CRITICAL PANEL TO GETTING ALL OF THESE POLICIES RIGHT, AND SO SOMETIMES I DON'T THINK THAT THEY GET THE RECOGNITION THAT THEY DESERVE, BUT IT'S REALLY A CRITICAL PIECE OF ALL OF THIS, AND SO BY THEM BRINGING FORWARD THIS POLICY INITIATIVE TO DRUG TEST PEOPLE WHO HAVE CHILDREN THAT HAVE BEEN -- THAT HAVE DIED OR ALMOST DIED, IT'S REALLY, LIKE I SAID, IT'S A REALLY FUNDAMENTAL PIECE, AND I THINK IT'S A REALLY GOOD COMPANION TO SENATE BILL 8, AND SO I WAS REALLY PLEASED THAT THAT PASSED TODAY, AND I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT IT WOULD MEET MUCH, YOU KNOW, MUCH TROUBLE OVER IN THE HOUSE, EITHER.

>> SO LET'S ASK HOUSE COLLEAGUE, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

DO YOU THINK THE MAJORITY PARTY IS ON BOARD FOR SENATE BILL AND 8 SENATE BILL 97?

>> I WOULD THINK SO.

I HAVE NOT HEARD OF ANYTHING TO LEAD ME TO ANY THAT IT WASN'T.

I THINK THE INTERESTING THING IS IF WE'RE GOING TO DRUG TEST FOLKS, THEN WE HAVE TO OFFER THEM TREATMENT, AND SO I THINK THAT WOULD BE A REAL IMPORTANT PIECE.

>> AND SENATE BILL 97 DOES NOT GO AS FAR AS THE TREATMENT PIECE?

>> IT DOES NOT.

>> I HAVE HEARD HORROR STORIES OF PARENTS TRYING TO GET THEIR KIDS BACK, TRYING TO GET INTO TREATMENT, AND THERE ARE WAITING LISTS ORE MAYBE NOT ACCESSIBLE IN THE AREAS WHERE THEY ARE, AND THAT'S ONE AREA I THINKIES THAT GENERAL ASSEMBLY WE NEED TO BE DOING SOME WORK ON TO MAKE SURE ONCE SOMEONE'S BEEN IDENTIFIED, THAT WE GIVE THEM THAT HELP THEY NEED BECAUSE THEINE DO WANT TO KEEP FAMILIES TOGETHER WHENEVER POSSIBLE.

>> EXCITE AND ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT WAS TALKED ABOUT THAT MIGHT BE CHANGED OVER ON YOUR SIDE IS PUTTING A LITTLE BIT MORE EXPLICIT PARAMETERS AROUND HOW MANY DAYS BEFORE THEY'RE DRUG TESTED OR, YOU KNOW, IS THREE DAYS TOO LONG?

IS ONE DAY ENOUGH?

SO I THINK THAT THERE WILL BE A CONTINUED DISCUSSION ON MAYBE PERFECTING THAT LITTLE PIECE OF IT TOO.

>> AND WE NEED TO BE TALKING TO OUR TREATMENT SPECIALISTS.

>> RIGHT.

>> TO GET THIS RIGHT.

>> RIGHT.

DR. BROOKS, I THINK YOU WANTED TO CHIME IN HERE, SIR.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

FOR SENATOR RAQUE ADAMS' WORK, YOU ALREADY REFERENCED THE WORK ON SENATE BILL 97, I THINK A REALLY IMPORTANT ASPECT OF THAT BILL IS IT ADDRESSES A BETTER ALIGNMENT BETWEEN THE CORONER SYSTEM AND LAW ENFORCEMENT.

DR. CURRIE SHARES MY CONCERN ABOUT AN IMPROVED CORONER SYSTEM IF WE'RE EVER GOING TO GET AT THE CORE OF SOLVING ABUSE AND NEGLECT.

I THINK ANOTHER COMPANION BILL THAT MERITS NOTE IS HOUSE BILL 263, COSPONSORED BY REPRESENTATIVE MASSEY AND SPEAKER OSBORNE.

THAT'S BEEN DUBBED CAMMY'S LAW.

ONE OF CAMMY'S FRIENDS, WHO CAMMY WAS A VICTIM OF TERRIBLE ABUSE, ONE OF HER FRIENDS KIARA HAS INVENTED THIS EFFORT AND REACHED OUT TO LOTS ARE.

IT JUST FLAT-OUT PROVIDES TOUGHER SANCTIONS FOR THE ABUSER, AND SO IF SENATOR RAQUE ADAMS' BILL GOES UPSTREAM, WHICH IS SO IMPORTANT, I THINK SENATOR CARROLL AND ALSO HB 263 DEALS WITH SOME OF THE MORE GRIMY ASPECTS OF CHILD ABUSE.

AND WE'VE GOT TO GO UPSTREAM AND WE ALSO HAVE TO ADDRESS SOME OF THOSE TOUGH ISSUES.

I ALSO THINK THERE'S CONVERSATION, AND I WANT TO PUT SENATOR RAUK'S DAMS ON THE SPOT, BUT I ALSO THINK THERE'S GOOD CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THINKING ABOUT CHAIN OF COMMAND, WHICH HAS CERTAINLY BEEN AN ISSUE IN CERTAIN COMMUNITIES AS A WAY TO PROTECT KIDS.

THE IDEA OF ADDRESSING SOME OF THOSE SIDE BAR ISSUES LIKE PARENTAL INCARCERATION.

SO I AM VERY OPTIMISTIC AT THAT BOTH THE HOUSE AND SENATE HAVE FOUND A COMMON GROUND AND COMMON AGENDA, AND SIGNER'S BILL IS THE HEADLINE BILL DUTY I DO THINK SB 97 AND THE BILL SPONSORED BY REPRESENTATIVE MASSEY AND SPEAKER OSBORNE MERIT ATTENTION.

>> SO HOUSE BILL 263, DR. BROOKS, THAT YOU JUST MENTIONED, THAT INCREASES PENALTIES IF THE VICTIM SUNDAY 12 YEARS OF AGE, IS THAT CORRECT?

>> YES.

AND THE PERSON WHO VERY MANYIZED CAMMY SO BADLY, FOR INSTANCE, GOT A SENTENCE OF FIVE YEARS, WHICH I FIND ETHICALLY OFFENSIVE, AND SO IT'S -- THE OTHER THING THAT ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES ON THE SET ALSO KNOW, WHICH I THINK IS IN TANDEM WITH WHAT'S HAPPENING IN FRANKFORT, THERE IS REALLY GOOD BIPARTISAN WORK, AND I NEED TO SAY THAT LEADER McCONNELL IS PART OF THAT, AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

THE CONCEPT OF CAPRA WHICH IS CHILD ABUSE AND PREVENT ACT IS UNDER REVIEW.

IT, LIKE SENATOR RAQUE ADAMS PLACES PRIMACY ON PREVENTION.

THE OTHER I THINK IS A HOT BUTTON FOR SECRETARY FRIEDLANDER IS IT BEGINS TO INTRODUCE COMMON DATA COLLECTION FROM STATE TO STATE.

RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A LOT OF APPLES TO ORANGES AND ORANGES TO APPLES.

THE CURRENT CAPA CONVERSATION IN WASHINGTON, DC, WOULD MEAN THE WAY ABUSE AND NEGLECT IS MEASURED IN KENTUCKY IS THE SAME AS IN INDIANA OR CALIFORNIA.

THAT SOUNDS A LITTLE WONKY AND MAY NOT BE EXCITING BUT THAT IS A STEP FORWARD AS WELL.

>> SECRETARY FRIEDLANDER, COMMENT ON THE STANDARDIZATION THERE.

>> SURE.

FIRST, I LOVE ALL THE AGREEMENT.

YOU KNOW, I FEEL LIKE I'M AT A SURVIVAL AND I WANT TO SAY "AMEN"."

CELEBRATE THAT.

>> OCCASIONALLY WE DO THAT ON "KENTUCKY TONIGHT."

NOT OFTEN.

>> YES, THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS OUT THERE.

IT'S SO HARD TO COMPARE AT A TIME TO STATE.

I'VE COLD COMMISSIONER MIRANDA ESTRADA WHO, BY THE WAY, IS FANTASTIC WITH,, AND WANTS TO DO THINGS DIFFERENT BECAUSE WE'VE DONE THE SAME THINGS FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS, AND WE KNOW THE DEFINITION OF THAT IS.

SO WE ARE TRYING DIFFERENT THINGS.

BUT WHAT YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT BE YOU HAVE TO COMPARE YOURSELF TO YOURSELF, AND ARE WE MAKING PROGRESS.

WE HOPE THAT WE ARE WITH THE LAST REPORT, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE ARE SEEING CASES THAT ARE MORE SEVERE.

IN TALKING WITH OUR CHILD ADVOCACY CENTERS, THEY ARE STILL OVERWHELMED BY CHILDREN THAT THEY ARE SEEING.

WE NEED TO BE -- WE CANNOT FEEL LIKE WE'VE TURNED A CORNER BECAUSE WHAT WE NEED TO FEEL IS ANY TIME WE SEE ABUSE AND NEGLECT, WE HAVE MORE WORK TO DO, AND WE DO.

WE HAVE MUCH MORE WORK TO DO.

BUT THIS SENATE BILL 8 IS A FANTASTIC WAY TO START.

AND HERE WE ALL ARE, HOUSE AND SENATE, REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRAT, ADVOCATES, PROBABLY THE FOUR MOST FORENSIC EXPERT THAT WE HAVE -- FOREMOST FORENSIC EXPERT THAT WE HAVE IN CHILD WELFARE, AND THIS IS -- AND, OF COURSE, A TREMENDOUS SUPPORTER -- BOUGHT WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE HERE.

WE KNOW THAT WE NEED TO TALKING ABOUT PREVENTION, HOW IMPORTANT THAT IS, HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO INTERVENE AT THE FAMILY LEVEL.

WE CAN'T JUST INTERVENE AT THE CHILD LEVEL.

THAT WON'T WORK.

>> WHEN TERRY TALKED ABOUT CHAIN OF COMMAND, GIVE US SOME CONTEXT FOR THAT.

>> SO -- WELL, I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE WHAT TERRY WAS TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE IT'S A LITTLE VAGUE TO ME, BUT I BELIEVE IT IS, YOU KNOW, -- M'M.

SOME OF THE CHALLENGES WE'VE HAD WHEN WE GO THROUGH PROSECUTING CASES, RIGHT, SOME OF THE CHALLENGES WE HAVE WITH WHO IS RESPONSIBLE IN COMMUNITIES, AND THAT'S BEEN THE TREMENDOUS WORK OF THE PANEL.

THOSE ARE THE KIND OF THINGS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE I THINK THE PANEL REALM REALLY IS ADDRESSING THE OTHER PARTS OF THE SYSTEM, THE COURT SYSTEM.

WE BROUGHT IT UP, THE SUBSTANCE USE SYSTEM AND THE MEDICAL SYSTEM.

WE BROUGHT THAT UP.

SCHOOLS, WE TALKED ABOUT THAT.

CHILD CARE, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT.

ALL OF THOSE -- ALL OF THOSE PIECES WEAVED TOGETHER ARE PREVENTION PROGRAMS.

WE ARE -- REPRESENTATIVE MEADE PROVIDE EXTRA FUNDING FOR PREVENTION.

THIS HAS BEEN REALLY IMPORTANT.

ACTUALLY WE'RE ABLE TO USE SOME OF THAT MONEY TO PRESERVE THE RESIDENTIAL PIECE THAT HAS BEEN STRUGGLING.

SO THIS HAS BEEN VERY IMPORTANT, AND THIS WORK HAS BEEN DONE TOGETHER, WHICH IS HOW WE'RE SUPPOSED TO WORK.

>> SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THE 69% OF THESE CASES, CHILD FATALITY, NEAR FATALITY.

THERE'S BEEN SOME PREVIOUS HISTORY WITH DCBS.

SO WHAT EXPLAINS THAT?

>> WELL, WHAT EXPLAINS THAT IS THAT WE GO IN AND WE DO WANT TO KEEP FAMILIES TOGETHER AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

WHAT EXPLAINS THAT IS WE'RE NO PERFECT.

WE TAKE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF ABUSE CASES IN.

AND THE 69% OF THE 200, OF THE 10,000, 20,000 THAT WE TAKE IN, WE DON'T ALWAYS GET IT RIGHT.

BUT WHAT I THINK IS AMAZING IS HOW MUCH THESE SOCIAL WORKERS, WITH AS LITTLE SUPPORT AS THEY HAVE, GOING INTO DANGEROUS SITUATIONS WHEN OFTENTIMES LAW ENFORCEMENT WON'T GO IN, THEY GO IN AND THEY ASSESS AND THEY MAKE THE MOST DIFFICULT DECISIONS THAT ANYBODY COULD POSSIBLY BE FACED WITH, AND YET SO MUCH OF THE TIME THEY MAKE THE RIGHT DECISION.

>> ONE OF THE OTHER RECOMMENDATIONS MADE BY THE REVIEW PANEL WAS ENHANCING COURT CAPACITY, AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT A LITTLE BIT, AND I WANTED TO ASK DEBORAH YETTER HER PERSPECTIVE.

SHE MENTIONED IT AT THE VERY BEGINNING ABOUT HOW I THINK THERE'S REALLY ONLY TWO OF THESE FAMILY DRUG COURTS, JEFFERSON AND CLAY, AND THAT'S WITH PRIVATE FUNDS, RIGHT?

SO HOW BIG OF AN ISSUE IS THAT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE OVERALL MALTREATMENT OF CHILDREN IN KENTUCKY?

>> WELL, I THINK THE FAMILY RECOVERY COURTS, AS THEY'RE NOW CALLED, HAVE BEEN SHOWN TO BE REMARKABLY SUCCESSFUL AT KEEPING FAMILIES TOGETHER IN THAT RATHER THAN TAKING KIDS AWAY OR TERMINATING PARENTS' RIGHTS, THEY WORK WITH THE PARENTS TO OVERCOME ADDICTION ISSUES, AND EITHER RETURN THE KIDS OR KEEP THEM TOGETHER.

BUT YOU KNOW YOU'RE LOOKING A JEFFERSON, AND MORE RECENTLY CLAY CROWN STARTED WITH PRIVATE FUNDRAISING AND FEDERAL GRANTS.

DR. KERRY AS PANEL HAS RECOMMENDED FOR SIX YEARS IN A ROW THAT THE STATE'S REINSTATE THESE AND THE STATE REINSTATE THESE IN OTHER PARTS OF KENTUCKY, BUT BECAUSE OF A LACK OF FUNDING, THAT HASN'T BEEN DONE YET.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THE PEOPLE WHO WORK WITH THEM AND ARE INVOLVED WITH THEM IN CLAY AND JEFFERSON SWEAR BY THEM.

THEY SAY THEY SEE AMAZING RESULTS.

>> AND DR. CURRIE, I ANTOINETTE TO SPEAK TO THAT.

GO AHEAD.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY THAT'S NOT THE ONLY RECOMMENDING.

THE PANEL HAS COME UP OVER THE PAST 11 YEARS WITH A NUMBER OF SIGNIFICANT RECOMMENDATIONS AND GAPS THEY SEE IN THE SYSTEM, BUT UNFORTUNATELY THEY DON'T HAVE ANY AUTHORITY TO ENACT THOSE.

ONE ASPECT OF SENATOR DANNY CARROLL'S BILL 97 TWO THAT THE AGENCIES HAVE TOOT LEAST ACKNOWLEDGE THE RECOMMENDATION AND RESPOND AS TO WHETHER THEY CAN DO THEM, AND IF NOT, WHY NOT.

>> AND I'LL ASK YOU BE, SECRETARY FRIEDLANDER, TO RESPOND TO THAT, BUT I DO WANT TO GET DR. CURRIE'S INCH PUT HERE WITH THE DRUG CAPACITY, THE DRUG COURT CAPACITY OR ENHANCING COURT CAPACITY, AND THAT YOU HAVE PUSHED FOR FOR A LONG TIME.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

IT'S SO CRITICALLY IMPORTANT.

YOU KNOW, SO MANY OF OUR FAMILIES, A HUMANLY PERCENTAGE OF THE FAMILIES WITH FATALITIES AND NEAR FATALITIES THAT WE REVIEW HAVE ISSUES WITH SUBSTANCE USE DISORDERS, AND SO OFTEN THOSE PARENTS ARE -- THEY'RE TRYING TO GET HELP AND THEY JUST DO NOT HAVE THE ACCESS TO IT OR THEY MAY BE IN TROUBLE CRIMINALLY, AND HAVING SORT OF THAT CARROT AND STICK APPROACH IN THE FAMILY RECOVERY COURTS, AS THEY'RE NOW CALLED, REALLY HELPS, HELPS FOLKS REACH THEIR ROCK BOTTOM, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WAY OF DESCRIBING IT, SO THAT THEY WILL SEEK TREATMENT AND CAN ENGAGE IN TREATMENT.

AND IT HELPS KEEP THE FAMILIES TOGETHER.

THE OUTCOMES FOR KIDS HAVE BEEN SHOWN TO BE POSITIVE.

THE OUTCOMES FOR FAMILIES HAVE BEEN SHOWN TO BE POSITIVE.

AND THEY SAVE MONEY.

>> SECRETARY FRIEDLANDER, I WANT TO COME TO YOU IF YOU CAN COMMENT ABOUT SENATE BILL 97 THAT WOULD I GUESS REQUIRE THE CABINET TO LOOK AT THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS, AND IF YOU DON'T ADOPT THEM, SAY WHY.

>> RIGHT.

WE SHOULD.

WE SHOULD.

WE SHOULD HAVE HAD THE FATALITY AND NEAR FATALITY PANEL YEARS AGO, AND WE AT THE CABINET FOUGHT IT.

WE, YOU KNOW, WE HAD ALL THESE PRIVACY CONCERNS AND DEBBIE YETER AND THE COURIER-JOURNAL REALLY PUSHED.

THEY WERE RIGHT.

WE WERE WRONG.

AND SO WE HAVE TO SUPPORT.

WE SHOULD RESPOND.

AND WE SHOULD LOOK AT WHAT WE CAN DO.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR ALL OF US TO DO THAT.

THE STRENGTH OF THAT PANEL IS HAVING SOMEBODY EXTERNAL TO THE CABINET TAKE A LOOK, TAKE A LOOK AT OUR RECORDS, WHICH WE WERE SO JEALOUSLY GUARDING AND BE BE ABLE TO MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS AND BE ABLE TO MAKE EM IS THETIC RECOMMENDATIONS AND BE ABLE TO MAKE THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT GET REFLECTED IN SENATE BILL 8.

THAT'S CRITICAL, AND WE HAVE TO RESPOND.

I COMPLETELY AGREE.

>> I THINK ONE OF THE MOST REMARKABLE ASPECTS OF THE LAST TEN MINUTES OF THIS SHOW SHOWS HOW UNBELIEVABLY DIVERSE THE FUNDING SOURCES ARE TO TACKLE THIS PROBLEM.

WE'RE LOOKING A CORRECTIONS.

I MADE A NOTE.

WE'RE LOOKING AT THE COURT SYSTEM.

WE'RE LOOKING AT THE PERSONNEL CABINET.

WE'RE LOOKING AT THE SUBSTANCE ABUSE BUDGETS.

WE'RE LOOKING AT THE CORRECTIONS BUDGET.

WE'RE LOOKING AT THE MEDICAID BUDGETS.

I MEAN, THIS IS SO ALL-ENCOMPASSING THAT IT DOES TAKE ALL OF US ON THIS SHOW, ON THE PANELS THAT WE SERVE ON, IN THE HOUSE, HOUSE AND SENATE, IN THE CABINET, IT'S GOING TO TAKE ALL OF US TO REALLY DEDICATE THOSE FUNDING SOURCES IN ALL THE VARIOUS WAYS TO GET THIS DONE.

>> AND AS LEADER JENKINS SAID, NOT JUST THIS GENERAL ASSEMBLY BUT FUTURE GENERAL ASSEMBLIES.

>> RIGHT.

>> AND HOW DO YOU COMPEL FUTURE GENERAL ASSEMBLY TO STICK TIGHT.

>> RIGHT.

>> IT WAS A REALLY REMARKABLE MOMENT FOR ME TO THINK, MY GOSH, THE FUNDING CUTS ACROSS ALL SECTORS OF STATE GOVERNMENT, AND WE NEED TO BE DEDICATED TO FULFILLING THOSE.

>> AND THE PROBLEM CUTS ACROSS ALL AREAS OF STATE GOVERNMENT.

SO THIS QUESTION FROM JEFFERSON COUNTY.

DCBS NEEDS TO ADD MORE THAN MONEY TO SOCIAL WORKERS.

EXCLAMATION POINT.

LEADERSHIP RUNS OFF NEW WORKERS BY LACK OF SUPPORT, OVERWHELMING CASELOADS AND, QUOTE, GOOD OLD BOYS CLUB RUNNING THE AGENCY.

AN AGENCY THAT HAS SO MANY OPPORTUNITIES TO PARTNER AND HELP FAMILIES HAS A REPUTATION FOR BULLYING, QUOTE/UNQUOTE FAMILIES.

WHAT IS YOUR PLAN TO CHANGE THE IMAGE AND MINDSET OF LEADERSHIP OF?

>> SO I BELIEVE I WAS ON YOUR SHOW LAST TIME -- "CONNECTIONS," YES.

AND WHAT I SAID AND WHAT I'VE SAID TO SOCIAL WORKERS ACROSS THE CABINET, THAT THEY NEED TO BE ABLE TO TAKE UP WITHOUT FEAR OF REAL TALIATION.

WE HAVE HEARD THAT OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

THAT PEOPLE ARE REQUIRED ABOUT REAL TALIATION.

AND SO FROM THE SECRETARY, I'M SAYING YOU NEED TO ADVOCATE NOR YOURSELF.

THAT IS PART OF RESILIENCE.

THAT'S PART OF SELF-CARE.

ALL OF THESE THINGS THAT ARE SO VERY IMPORTANT.

SO IN CASE ANYBODY NEEDS TO HEAR IT AGAIN, AND INDIVIDUAL SUPERVISORS WILL WORK WITH THAT, RIGHT?

>> RIGHT.

>> THAT THAT'S ALWAYS THE CASE.

JUST LIKE ANY INDIVIDUAL WITHIN AN ORGANIZATION.

>> IT'S A BIG TRIP TO GET TO YOU.

>> IT'S A BIG TRIP TO GET TO ME, BUT I HAVE TO SET THE TONE.

I HAVE TO SET THE TONE AND SAY THINGS LIKE I JUST SAID.

THAT WILL NOT BE TOLERATED BECAUSE THAT WAS MOST IMPORTANT IS MAKING SURE THAT WE PUT THE NEEDS OF CHILDREN FIRST.

>> RIGHT.

>> AND THAT WE DO THAT BY TAKING CARE OF OURSELVES AND BEING SUPPORTIVE AS WE CAN BE WITHIN THE PERSONNEL SYSTEM AND LA, LA, LA, OF THE FOLKS.

>> AND HOLDINGS THOSE SUPERVISORS ACCOUNTABLE IF THEY'RE LEANING ON SOCIAL WORKERS IN SOME NEFARIOUS WAY?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> SO TERRY BROOKS, I THINK YOU HAD YOUR HAND LITTELL RAISED.

YES, SIR.

>> ON A JUST WANTED TO -- I JUST WANTED TO OFFER AN EXTERNAL PERSPECTIVE TO THAT QUESTION.

AND UNDERSCORE WHAT THE SECRETARY SAID.

FIRST OF ALL, 23 23 WE CANNOT DO TOO MUCH FOR OUR FRONTLINE WORKERS.

WHEN I TALK TO FOLKS ABOUT THAT, ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS A JOB DESCRIPTION FOR A FRONTLINE SOCIAL WORKER AND TALK ABOUT THEIR PAY AND COMPARE THAT TO THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE 5 BUCKS MORE AT CHICK-FIL-A AND DON'T HAVE TO GO INTO DANGEROUS SITUATIONS, THAT'S A TOUGH -- [INDECIPHERABLE] BUT I REALLY WANT TO AFFIRM WHAT SECRETARY FRIEDLANDER SAID.

AND AGAIN, I WANT TO STRESS THAT IN ALL DUE DILIGENCE, BOTH COMMISSIONERS UNDER GOVERNOR BEVIN, CERTAINLY THIS COMMISSIONER UNDER GOVERNOR BESHEAR, CARRY ERIC'S MESSAGE OF AFFIRMATION, SO THIS IS NOT A REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRATIC CABINET.

I THINK THAT SECRETARY FRIEDLANDER IS DOING MORE TO NOT JUST ENLARGE THE WORKFORCE BUT TO RESTRUCTURE WHAT THAT MEANS AS A CAREER.

WE'VE GOT TO FIND WAYS TO ENLARGE WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A FRONTLINE WORKER.

WE HAVE TO PROVIDE CAREER LADDERS FOR TOP-NOTCH FRONTLINE WORKERS AND STAY AT IT, DIFFERENTIATED STAFFING, HOW WE HANDLE COMPLEX ISSUES.

SO THE PERSON THAT ASKED THE QUESTION IS RIGHT ON.

WE NEED TO VALUE THOSE FRONDLINE WORKERS.

WE NEED TO VALUE THE INPUT.

BUT AS SOMEONE WHO HAS MORE THAN ONCE BEEN CRITICAL OF CABINET LEADERSHIP GOING BACK TO DEBBIE'S GREAT REPORTING AROUND AMY DYE'S TRAGEDY 1 I DO WANT TO JUST EMPHASIZE THAT SECRETARY FRIEDLANDER IS WALKING WHAT HE'S SAYING, AND WE HAD A -- AN INTERESTING OPPORTUNITY RECENTLY AS HE KNOWS, TO WORK WITH FRONTLINE WORKERS IN ALL NINE REGIONS WHERE HE AND THE COMMISSIONER JOINED US IN FACILITATING DISCUSSIONS THAT WAS ROBUST, THERE WAS A LOT OF PUSHBACK, AND AGAIN I REALLY THINK THAT CURRENTLY WE'RE ON THE RIGHT TRAJECTORY TO FINALLY HONOR THOSE FRONTLINE WORKERS IN VERY -- WAYS.

>> LEADER JENKINS, YOUR PERSPECTIVE ON THAT AND WHAT YOU HEARD THIS PERSON FROM JEFFERSON COUNTY SAY.

>> I THINK WE'RE ALL VERY AWARE THAT THERE'S A PROBLEM IN JEFFERSON COUNTY WITH THE NUMBER OF SOCIAL WORKERS AND THEIR CASELOADS ARE WAY TOO HIGH, BUT I WILL SAY THE SECRETARY, THAT FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY CAREER I'VE HAD NUMEROUS ZOOMs WITH SOCIAL WORKERS WHO HAVE BEEN TALKING TO ME, AND I FEEL THAT'S BECAUSE YOU HAVE MADE THEM FEEL COMFORTABLE IN GOING TO LEGISLATORS.

AND, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT SALARY, WHICH EVERYBODY IT WASN'T TO BE PAID FAIRLY, BUT THEY'RE ALSO TALKING ABOUT THINGS LIKE TUITION REIMBURSEMENT.

THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THEIR PENSION, THAT PENSION HAS CHANGED FOR MANY OF THEM.

THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT WORKING CONDITIONS.

THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT HAVING GONE OUT ON A HORRIBLE CALLAL UNTIL, YOU KNOW, WEE HOURS OF THE MORNING AND THEN HAVING TO COME IN AT 8:00 THE NEXT MORNING.

WE NEED TO BE AWARE THAT THEY GET SECONDARY TRAUMA FROM THEIR WORK, AND WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAVE THE MENTAL HEALTH RESOURCES THAT THEY NEED, THAT THEY HAVE TIME OFF FOR -- TO JUST SELF-CARE.

SO SALARY IS ONE THING.

WE REALLY NEED TO WORK A THOSE THINGS TO RETAIN OUR SOCIAL WORKERS BECAUSE EXPERIENCED SOCIAL e WOR GOING TO BE SO MUCH BETTER OUT IN THE FIELD, AND THEY CAN ALSO TRAIN THE NEW ONES.

I ALWAYS SAY THAT IF I WAS A SOCIAL WORKER, I'D PROBABLY TAKE EVERY KID HOME WITH ME, WHICH WOULD BE A PROBLEM.

PROBABLY TAKE THEM BACK REALLY FAST.

BUT THAT EXPERIENCE TO LEARN WHEN IT'S A MODERATE RISK, WHEN IT'S AN INTENSIVE RISK, IT COMES WITH TIME AND EXPERIENCE.

SO RETAINING THEM AND DOING WHAT WE NEED TO RETAIN SOCIAL WORKERS I THINK IS SOMETHING WE SHOULD ALL BE LOOKING AT IN THE BUDGET.

>> I'VE SAID TO SOCIAL WORKERS AND WHEN I WAS AT FAMILY RESOURCE CENTERS BECAUSE UP ON OLD ENOUGH, BEEN AT EVERYTHING AT THE CABINET, SOMETHING I SAID TO THEM, AND I SAY TO IT SOCIAL WORKERS NOW, PART OF THE JOB IS VOTING FOR CHILDREN AND FAMILIES P PSSST.

THAT'S DEFINITELY A PART OF THE JOB.

BUT HOW CAN YOU DO THAT IF YOU DON'T ADVOCATE FOR YOURSELF?

THAT IS A PART OF THE JOB.

>> DEBORAH YETTER, I THINK IT WAS YOU WHEN WE HAD THIS DISCUSSION I THINK BACK IN OCTOBER THAT HELPED US DIFFERENTIATE CASELOAD VERSUS CASE WEIGHT.

I THINK YOU BROUGHT UP THAT POINT, THAT IT'S NOT JUST NUMBER OF CASES BECAUSE A CASE CAN HAVE SO MANY DIFFERENT PARTS AND PEOPLE INVOLVED IN IT.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT YOU MEANT BY THAT TO US AGAIN.

>> RIGHT.

THE CASES PER WORKER ARE ALREADY HIGHER THAN THINK SHOULD BE BY PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS.

THEY THEY JUST HAVE TOO MANY FAMILIES TO KEEP UP WITH AND KIDS IN SUSPECTED CASES OF ABUSE AND NEGLECTED, BUT OFTENTIMES THESE CASES BECOME VERY COMPLICATED.

THERE MAY BE SEVERAL ADULTS IN THE HOME.

THERE MAY BE MULTIPLE GENERATIONS.

THERE MIGHT BE A BOYFRIEND OR GIRLFRIEND OF THE PARENT INVOLVED, OTHER SIBLINGS P. AND SUDDENLY A WORKER WHO THINKS THEY HAVE TO INVESTIGATE ONE CHILD AND MAYBE LOOK INTO THE SITUATION OF ONE PARENT IS DEALING WITH HALF A DOZEN TO 12 PEOPLE.

AND THE CASES GET REALLY COMPLICATED.

THEY'RE TIME-CONSUMING.

THEY INVOLVE MULTIPLE COURT APPEARANCES.

SO, YEAH, WE HAD TALKED ABOUT THE ABILITY OF WORKERS TO WEIGHT THEIR CASES AND NOT JUST COUNTS THEM BY THE CASE FILE.

THEY HAVE CASE FILES THEMSELVES BUT THE ACTUAL COMPLEXITY OF WHAT'S GOING TO IN THEM, THE NATURE OF THE ABUSE AND ALLEGATIONS.

>> AND SO IS THERE CONSIDERATION GIVEN TOO THAT, SECRETARY FRIEDLANDER?

HOW DO YOU EVALUATE?

>> IT'S A CHALLENGE BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH SOCIAL WORKERS.

WE'VE SEEN THIS EXODUS BOTH OF SOCIAL WORKERS -- >> WHAT WOULD BE THE MAGIC NUMBER THAT YOU WOULD THINK YOU HAVE TO RESTORE THE WORKFORCE TO TO HAVE IT OPERATE, NOT EVEN OPTIMALLY BUT JUST MORE SUCCESSFULLY THAN IT'S DOING NOW?

>> WHAT WE ASKED FOR IN THE GOVERNOR'S BUDGET WASEFULLY H. WAGS 350.

THAT REALLY IS A DOWN PAYMENT, I BELIEVE, AND WE HAVE TO DO THAT TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE THE RIGHT PEOPLE IN AND WE'VE SPED UP OUR HIRING PROCESSES AND WE ANNOUNCE THAT, AND WE ACTUALLY HAVE, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, TO WHERE WE HAVE STOPPED THE HEMORRHAGING, AND WE HAVE IN THE PAST SIX WEEKS, BUT IT'S SIX WEEKS.

LET'S SEE.

BUT WE'VE GOT A LONG WAY TO GO.

HUNDREDS, HUNDREDS.

>> SO WHAT DO WE THINK IN TERMS OF SENATOR RAQUE ADAMS, HOW MANY MORE SOCIAL WORKERS WOULD THE SENATE BUDGET -- I MEAN, I KNOW THERE'S DISCUSSIONS THAT ARE UNDERWAY RIGHT NOW.

IS THERE A NUMBER THAT HAS BEEN ASSIGNED TO YOUR INPUT?

>> THERE HAS NOT.

WHAT THE SENATE IS DOING, WE'VE GOT THE HOUSE BUDGET A LOT EARLIER THAN WE ANTICIPATED, AND SO WHAT WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW IS EVERY TUESDAY AND THURSDAY WE ARE SITTING DOWN AND MEETING THE A&R COMMITTEE AND LEADERSHIP, AND WE'RE GOING THROUGH WHAT THE GOVERNOR PROPOSED, WHAT THE HOUSE PROPOSED, AND RIGHT NOW WE'RE JUST LOOKING AT WHAT BOTH SIDES HAVE SAID.

SO NO DECISIONS HAVE BEEN MADE.

BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S HARD TOIST DISCOUNT WHEN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH BUDGET COMES OUTS AND THEY SAY WE NEED X NUMBER OF CASEWORKERS AND WE NEED THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY.

THIS IS ONE OF THOSE SUGGESTS AREAS THAT SIGNIFICANT AREAS THAT IN MY OPINION WE CAN'T SHORTCHANGE SO WE WILL TAKE THE GOVERNOR'S RECOMMENDATION VERY SERIOUSLY.

>> AND THE HOUSE'S VERSION IS DIFFERENT FROM THE WHAT THE GOVERNOR RECOMMENDED.

>> I CAN'T REMEMBER THE EXACT NUMBER.

>> 200 SOCIAL WORKERS.

100 EACH YEAR OF THE BIENNIUM.

>> SO I THINK THAT'S PROBLEMATIC.

WHEN THE SECRETARY OF THE CABINET AND THE HEAD OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH ARE TELLING YOU THIS IS WHAT WE NEED, AND WE'RE HEARING FROM SOCIAL WORKERS, FRONTLINE WORKERS SAYING WE NEED MORE PEOPLE TO HELP US.

>> SO ONE OF THE ISSUES I WANT TO TALK ABOUT REAL BRIEFLY IN THE SEVEN AND A HALF MINUTES REMAINING, ANOTHER ENTERATE SEPARATE BILL.

SENATE BILL 40.

THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TALK ABOUT KEEPING THE FAMILIES TOGETHER WHEN IT'S FEASIBLE AND MAKES SENSE FOR THE CHILD'S SAFETY.

SENATE BILL 40 WOULD ALLOW PARENTS TO SUE IF THEY BELIEVE THE GOVERNMENT IS INTERFERENCE IN THEIR PARENTAL RIGHTS.

DO YOU WONDER OR ARE YOU CONCERNED OR WORRIED, SENATOR RAUK'S DAMS, THAT THAT RUNS AFOUL TO YOUR SENATE BILL 8 OR IS IT COMPLIMENT COMPLEMENTARY IN SOME WAY?

>> WELL, I HAVE NOT LOOKED TOO DEEPLY INTO SENATE BILL 40, BUT WHAT I HAVE HEARD IS THE TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF ADVOCATES AND INTERESTED PARTIES HAVE REACHED OUT TO ME WITH SOME CONCERNS THAT THIS WOULD UNDO SOME OF THOSE PIECES.

FOR INSTANCE, IT IS MIGHT DIMINISH THE REPORTING THAT GOES INTO A LOT OF THESE CHILD ABUSE AND NEGLECT CASES BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE FEARFUL TO GET INVOLVED RUNNING THE RISK OF BEING SUED.

IT CHANGES THE COURT STANDARD I THINK FROM -- AND I DON'T EXACTLY KNOW BUT IT CHANGES ONE OF THE STANDARDS FOR IDENTIFYING ABUSE AND NEGLECT.

AND SO IT'S JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS.

AND I WILL TELL YOU THAT WHAT -- HOW WE THOUGHT WE WOULD HANDLE IT IS HAVE A WHOLE CAUCUS CONVERSATION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHERE WE ARE.

THERE'S LOTS OF PEOPLE WHO THINK IT'S GREAT, AND I THINK THERE'S SOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE CONCERNS, BUT WE'RE A CAUCUS-DRIVEN CHAMBER, AND SO WE'RE -- I'M LOOKING FORWARD HAVING THOSE CONVERSATIONS.

>> SURE.

TERRY BROOKS, I KNOW YOU WANT TO WEIGH IN HERE, SIR.

>> YEAH, I'M GOING TO BE MORE DIRECT THAN SENATOR RAQUE ADAMS.

IF THE SENATE MOVES THIS AHEAD IN SENATE BILL 8, THE THAT IS LEGISLATIVE SCHIZOPHRENIA BECAUSE IT WORKS IN OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS.

I THINK THAT THE INTENT -- AND I JUST NEED TO SAY THAT THE SPONSOR, SENATOR WEST, IN MANY WAYS IS GOOD FOR KIDS.

HE JUST, FOR INSTANCE, PROPOSED A TERRIFIC BILL AROUND FOURTH GRADE LITERACY, SO I DON'T THINK THE INTENT IS TO CAUSE PROBLEMS FOR KIDS, BUT I THINK THE IMPLICATIONS ARE REALLY POWERFUL POWERFUL.

NATIONALLY, BILLS THAT MIRROR THIS LANGUAGE ARE FOCUSED ON K-12 SCHOOL SYSTEM AND THE ROLE OF PARENTS IN CURRICULUM.

THAT'S PROBABLY A DIFFERENT TOPIC FOR A DIFFERENT TIME.

BUT I THINK THE IMPLICATIONS, IF YOU READ THAT BILL CLOSELY, CAN BE REALLY NEGATIVE AROUND REPORTING CHILD MALTREATMENT.

I THINK IT WILL HAVE A CHILLING EFFECT ON THE CABINET'S RESPONSE RESPONSE.

I THINK IT COULD SLOW DOWN THE PROCESS BECAUSE IT PERHAPS ENGAGES THE COURTS AT A DEEPER LEVEL THAN IS IMMEDIATELY NEEDED.

AGAIN, I DO NOT THINK IT IS INTENTIONAL, BUT I JUST WANT TO GO ON THE RECORD SAYING THAT WE SEE SENATE BILL 40 AS VERY PROBLEMATIC.

AS WE GET ALL THIS GREAT MOMENTUM GOING AROUND CHILD ABUSE AND NEGLECT, WE DON'T NEED A MEASURE THAT IS GOING TO DO THE REVERSE IMPACT.

>> SECRETARY FRIEDLANDER, DO YOU HAVE YOUR EYE ON SENATE BILL 40?

DO YOU KNOW MUCH ABOUT IT?

>> YES.

AND I APPRECIATE WHAT TERRY SAID.

INTENT IS -- I DON'T SEE ANY MAL INTENT.

WHAT I SEE IS SOMEBODY WHO IS VERY COMMITTED TO SUPPORTING PARENTS.

WE WANT TO SUPPORT PARENTS TOO.

WE WANT TO KEEP FAMILIES TOGETHER.

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE PROVIDE THE SERVICES TO KEEP FAMILIES TOGETHER.

WE WERE TALKING IN THE ROOM OUTSIDE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THINK ABOUT SOMEBODY TURNING 18, AND YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY FAMILY.

I KNOW I WOULDN'T HAVE SURVIVED WHEN I WAS DOING HOMELESS WORK IN LOUISVILLE.

TOO OFTEN WE SAW YOUTH WHO WERE ON THE STREET WHO COME THROUGH THE FOSTER CARE SYSTEM.

THAT'S CORRECT.

THAT'S THE RIGHT INTENT.

WE ARE WORRIED ABOUT UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.

WE ARE WORRIED ABOUT WILL FOLKS BE HESITANT TO REPORT.

WILL IT BE MORE DIFFICULT WHEN IT SHOULDN'T BE IF THERE ARE SOME VERY SERIOUS ISSUES HAPPENING IN THE HOME.

SO WE ARE CONCERNED.

WE ARE CONCERNED.

>> DR. CURRIE, DO YOU KNOW MUCH ABOUT SENATE BILL 40 AND DO YOU CARE TO WEIGHING IN HOW YOU THINK IT WOULD DO OR UNDO THE EFFORTS BEING PUT FORTH IN SENATE BILL 8?

>> I DON'T KNOW A LOT ABOUT IT.

I HAVE HEARD OF IT.

AND I SHARE DR. BROOKS' CONCERNS AND THOSE OF SECRETARY FRIEDLANDER.

I THINK PARTICULARLY GIVEN THAT WE HAVE ONE OF THE STRONGEST MANDATORY REPORTING LAWS IN THE COUNTRY HERE IN KENTUCKY, THAT'S A BRIGHT SPOT FOR US AND AN AREA THAT WE SHOULD BE PROUD OF.

ANYTHING THAT WOULD UNDERMINE THE ABILITY OF CONCERNED CITIZENS EVER CONDITIONS EVER CITIZENS TO REPORT CONCERNS ABOUT CHILD SAFETY WOULD BE A CONCERN TO ME.

>> SO I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU NEXT TO THE LAST WORD.

I THINK WE'VE GOT A LITTLE BIT LESS THAN TWO AND A HALF MINUTES, DR. CURRIY.

AT THE END THE DAY AND MAYBE SENATE BILL 8 IS SIGNED AND WE CAN REPORT AT ON IN A YEAR OR SO FROM NOW ABOUT THE PROGRESS, WHAT SHOULD PROGRESS LOOK LIKE?

HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT IT'S ACTUALLY WORKING?

>> I'D LIKE TO SEE CURE FURY KIDS IN FOSTER CARE.

I'D LIKE TO SEE FAMILY PRESERVATION PUT IN EARLIER AS THE BILL REPUBLICANS AND FAMILIES BE HEALED AND KEPT TOGETHER SO THAT KIDS DON'T HAVE TO BE REMOVED.

I THINK THE EXPANDED DEFINITION OF FICTIVE KIN IS ALSO GOING TO CONTRIBUTE TO FEWER KIDS IN FOSTER CARE AS WELL.

AND I THINK WE'VE ALL AGREED, AS WE'VE HAD THIS DISCUSSION TONIGHT, THAT SOMETIMES KIDS HAVE TO BE REMOVED FOR THEIR SAFETY, BUT THAT CERTAINLY SHOULD BE A LAST-CASE SCENARIO.

>> AND FOR DEBORAH YETTER WHO IS SITTING RIGHT NEXT TO YOU, WHAT'S THE HEADLINE YOU HOPE TO WRITE SOME TIME WHEN IT COMES TO CHILD MAL FREMONT AND HOW WE'VE MADE PROGRESS?

>> WELL, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE NUMBER OF CASES GO DOWN, THE PROSPECTS FOR KIDS IMPROVE, AND JUST AN OVERALL BETTER SYSTEM FOR KIDS AND FAMILIES, MORE DRUG COURTS, MORE RESOURCES, MORE JUST OPPORTUNITIES.

>> LEADER JENKINS?

>> I THINK WE SHOULD BE WATCHING THE BUDGET PROCESS AND SEE IF WE'RE GOING TO PUT OUR MONEY WHERE OUR MOUTH IS.

THAT'S WHERE THE RUBBER HITS THE ROAD, AND IF WE'RE GOING TO FUND MORE SOCIAL WORKERS, IF WE'RE GOING TO FUND THE PREVENTIVE PROGRAMS, IF WE'RE GOING TO FUND HELP FOR OUR KIDS WHO ARE AGING OUT OF FOSTER COMPARE.

>> SECRETARY FRIEDLANDER, 20 SECONDS.

>> OKAY.

WHAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING?

IN A CHILD'S LIFE?

IT IS HAVING ONE TRULY CARING ADULT.

SO THE FOLKS WATCHING THIS, YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN A CHILD'S LIFE BY BEING THAT CARING ADULT.

AND I HOPE THAT WE AS A COMMUNITY CAN COME TOGETHER & AND DO THAT.

>> SO SENATOR RAUK'S DAMS, DIDN'T MEAN TO CHEAT BUT I THINK THAT'S A GOOD WORD TO END ON.

>> THAT'S GOOD ENOUGH.

>> YOU.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE ALL OF YOU.

WE APPRECIATE YOU IN LOUISVILLE AND BY SKYPE AND HERE IN OUR LEXINGTON STUDIO.

IT'S BEEN A GREAT CONVERSATION.

WE'LL KEEP OUR EYES ON THIS MEASURE AND OTHERS.

"LEGISLATIVE UPDATE" COMES ON TONIGHT A 11:00 P.M. MY CHEEK CASEY PARKER-BELL IS GOING TO BRING ALL OF THE LATEST FROM CAPITOL HILL TODAY AND I'LL SEE YOU VERY, VERY SOON NEXT WEEK MONDAY NIGHT ON "KENTUCKY TONIGHT."

JOIN US THEN.

UNTIL THEN TAKE GOOD CARE.

I'M RENEE SHAW.

SEE YOU