(bright music) - [Narrator] "Illinois Stories" is brought to you by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, Illinois Arts Council Agency, and by the support of viewers like you.

Thank you.

(bright music) - Hello and welcome to "Illinois Stories".

I'm Mark McDonald on Quinsippi Island in Quincy at the Lincoln-era Log Cabin Village.

The Friends of the Log Cabins have been down here for years and years, putting this village together and they continue to find new ways to improve it.

We're looking at the, and help me out here, John, what's the name of this cabin, the Fraser cabin?

- 1828, Fraser cabin.

- 1828, Fraser cabin.

What's noteworthy about this is this week, there's been a class here and people who are interested in log cabins and reconstructing them have been down here taking classes on chinking and dobbing and we're gonna find out what those words mean and what these people have learned this week.

John, this has been an ongoing thing.

Like I said, it's been years and years.

You and your friends - Right.

- Have been working on this project.

And what you've really found yourself doing is some of these cabins that have come here recently, you've had to lift 'em up to get 'em out of the problems of maybe possible flooding 'cause we're right on river level here.

- Right.

- And all of the issues that come along with maintaining these things as you try to lift 'em up and bring 'em back to life.

- Right, and see the village was actually here.

It was built in 1968 to '72 and it was used as part of the Quinsippi Island entertainment complex and then it went bankrupt.

And so the park district got rid of a lot of the stuff, but the one thing they didn't get rid of was the village 'cause a lot of these cabins were donated by families to the village.

And what we're trying to do is save these structures because they all back to the 1800s and they're all original logs.

That's what I like about it is because it's an original log cabin and this was around when Abe Lincoln was around.

So that's why we call it a Lincoln-era Log Cabin Village.

In fact, when we have our Frontier Settlement Day in September, the second Saturday in September, we always try to get Abe Lincoln here in some form.

One year he came as a rail splitter and he taught how, people how used - That makes sense.

- Used to read split rails.

- Sure.

- Several years, he's come now and showed 'em how he used to write in script.

And back in the early days, a few years ago, they weren't teaching that anymore.

And he would hold this thing up to a kid and say, can you read that and they couldn't read it because they weren't learning that.

- Sure.

- Well now they're learning it again, which is great.

- Yeah, that is great.

- Because a lot of people in the 1800s, that's all they ever did was write - You know, we're kind of concentrating on these two cabins because these are the last ones to have been put up and on new foundations and above flood level.

- Right.

- Let's talk about Adam's general merchandise a little bit.

Is this one finished?

- This one's done.

Yeah, we pretty much got it set up.

It was donated in memory of Clad Adams who was a riverboat captain and he ran a store in Quincy and sold things to riverboat people as well as other people.

And so the Michael's family donated that cabin in memory of Clad Adams.

And so that was the first one we restored and we had to raise it up because it was sitting down in a bowl and.

- Yep, and as we look at it, we were talking about chinking and dobbing and if you look at what looks like cement between the logs on the outside here, - Right.

- That's the dobbing, isn't it?

- Right.

- So that's what's being done to this cabin, the Fraser cabin over here and that's what those people have been studying and learning this week, right?

- Right, and the beauty of this is a natural workshop.

And as a former instructor and cetera, I always liked it when I could actually do real world stuff.

And so when you do a workshop and you can actually use the materials and work on a facility that's actually doing it, you'll remember it then.

- Sure, hands on.

That's why they call it hands on.

- Yeah.

- While we're here, let's just take, very brief, let's take a look at some of the other buildings that are down here and they've been down here a long time.

There's a chapel up at the far end of the valley, right?

- Right that's the Lord's cabin.

It was built by the Knights of Columbus.

And it's actually rebuilt out of barn logs and it replicates the first church that Quincy had.

- And then you've got a crib, some kind of a crib over here.

- Right, and that's the oldest structure that usually hasn't survived.

It's actually 1850s.

It's not actually older as far as time but a lot of corn cribs never made it.

- Yeah.

- A lot of 'em were bulldozed.

This one is an actual corn crib and the corn wagon has wheels on it that were rich made by a company that's now called Titan Wheel.

- Aha.

- And back then it was called Electric Wheel.

And we had a, an eagle scout restore that cabin and he found out those wheels came from Electric Wheel.

- And was that in Quincy?

- In Quincy.

- No kidding (indistinct) And what about this one over here?

- That was the Herman cabin.

That was on a farm in the Herman, had it on their farm and the Luberts bought the farm and said we're gonna donate that to the Log Cabin Village.

And so its was moved here and they actually came back and helped to restore it.

- That's wonderful.

- In fact, they did a lot of the chinking on the inside of that and they helped undoing the roofs.

The ones that got the cedar shake roofs are the ones that we've completed.

- Yeah, they're good for a while.

- Yeah.

- Okay, and there's a stone building in the distance too.

- Right, and that was one of our original board members.

Bob Mays and his mother donated that and actually had it moved here stone by stone and then rebuilt as a stone smokehouse and - Wow, oh, that's fascinating.

Okay, so now we're working on, this week we're working on the Fraser cabin from 18, - Right.

- Did you say 1815?

- 1838.

- 1838?

- Yeah.

- This may predate everything else here, okay.

- Yeah this is the oldest cabin I think.

Let me double check it, 1828.

I'm sorry.

- 1828.

- That went over there.

- It's really old.

- The other one is 1838.

- Yeah.

- This one is 1828.

- Okay, now you brought in an expert on this.

He's been here before.

He's helped you reconstruct these things.

- Right.

- He's giving you advice.

He's from Idaho.

His name is Joe Gallagher, I think.

- Gallagher.

- Okay, he's mixing up some material right now to give to the folks who've taken the class and they're busy chinking and daubing so we're gonna look at that process next, okay?

- Right.

- All right.

Now, Joe, you conducted a class this week or conducting a class this week.

- That's right.

- From some folks who are very interested in log cabin construction, but don't know much about like the finish work which is, is it called chinking?

Is that what it's called?

- Well, we're dobbing actually - Oh, we're dobbing.

- Yeah.

- So what's the difference between chinking and dobbing?

- If I stuffed you in a crack, that would be chinking.

If I homogenized you, that would be dobbing.

- So this is homogenized.

- Yeah, this is dobbing.

- Okay so if you chink it, it means you're putting a solid object, like a piece of wood or something into a hole or crack.

- Right and we're using expanded metal lathe for our chinking so that we have something to dob against.

- Okay and that would be something they wouldn't have had back in the 1800s though, right?

They wouldn't have had expanded metal?

- No but this cabin is not in its original place so we don't have to meet secretary of interior standards.

- Okay.

- So we're looking at a small company, a country here, a small society here that doesn't have a lot of funds.

So we're giving them something that's gonna last a long time.

- Yeah.

So it's not actually, you're not being a stickler on using the exactly the same materials.

- No.

- But you're dues are as much of the same logs as possible and you're rebuilding it.

And then what you're doing is you're making it last.

So if you could put metal or something that's gonna last forever in there, that's better than putting a piece of wood or refuse or whatever you might find anywhere, huh?

- I don't know what these cabins had originally.

Nobody does.

So what we'll do is give them something that will last a long time, be relatively weatherproof, be relatively vermin proof and they won't have to have somebody like me coming from Idaho - Yeah.

- To show them how to do this again.

- Okay.

- It's a one and done kind of thing that.

- Now, what you're use here is dob, your dobbing material.

What is this dobbing material?

- This is sand, lime, cement and gypsum.

And I add the gypsum because when it dries, it expands the cement and the lime will contract when it expands and this offsets.

- Yeah, that's coming through - That closed off the light for us.

- Yep.

- The tendency to shrink - How much more do we have?

- The tendency to crack.

So the gypsum expands.

That's what you have on plaster walls.

- Would the pioneers have had anything like this, any material like this or what would they have used?

- They would've used sand and then whatever is out there in the field.

I think there's sand here.

- (indistinct) Have left - We're in Mississippi, right?

- Yep, yeah.

- There's sand here, yeah.

So they would've used that and probably lime.

They might have had some cement, but they also had a lot of labor.

So they could do this repeatedly, - Right, every year - Year after year.

- If they had to, right?

- Yeah.

- And you're not gonna do that.

You're not gonna ask 'em to do it.

- Nah.

- Once you dob this thing and chink it, it's gone for, it's done for decades.

- Yeah, it's done and gone.

- Okay, keep mixing.

I don't wanna keep you from mixing there.

- Okay.

- With this consistency, you're gonna add some more water, I guess 'cause it looks like it's gonna be kind of dry.

It's probably my fault for talking to you that's why it's dry - Let me grab this jug of water here.

- Let's go in there.

- And I mix it to cookie dough, consistency.

- I don't even know where we are.

(hammer plodding) - Okay.

- And that will give us a mix that's adequate for what's inside.

- Okay well we're gonna get a chance to talk to some of these folks that have taken your class all week.

They're the ones that are actually doing the work, right?

So you're gonna turn this over to them.

- Oh, if you think - They're gonna put it on board.

- This might not be work here, have it (laughs) - I believe it.

I'm not used to that so don't don't bend a little.

- Yeah.

- So you're gonna hand put it on a flat board for them and they're take it in there.

You're taught them this week how you gonna spread.

- That's a hawk.

- Not a fight board, a hawk.

- No, it's a hawk.

- Okay.

- H-A-W-K, like a hawk, like a bird.

- Yeah and why do you suppose they call it that?

'Cause it's shaped like a hawk?

- Who knows?

- Like when a hawk opens its wings, that what it looks.

It's okay, all right.

- I don't have an answer to some of those things, but we had an interesting conversation this morning about what's the difference between a hawk and a hod.

- Okay.

- And a hod has shoulders on it or walls and you carry stone or brick in it.

- A hod carrier where there's - A hod carrier.

- Concrete up here.

- These guys are using hawks.

- They're hawk carriers, not hod carriers.

- Yeah.

- Is because that's more like what they would've used in the 1850s or it doesn't matter.

Just something to haul it around.

- Well, I mean, you stick mortar on whatever.

- Yeah.

- But the bright word is hawk.

- Okay.

Well, did you have any difficulties in your classes this year?

Did they seem to catch it pretty quick?

They seems to be.

Are they good students?

- They're great students.

And what we did is the first day, we went around and we looked.

On the inside, you could see light showing through in different places.

- Yeah.

- So we took the people around on the outside and started patching some of those holes.

I mean over a period of time logs wiggle around.

- Sure.

- And so you get some holes.

So (indistinct) is done with a saw, yeah.

- Electricity.

- That's a battery powered saw actually.

So we filled the holes and then we came on the inside and we added the expanded metal lough and now we're using the dobbing to cover over those and so.

- Yeah.

- How was that?

- Okay, well, I didn't mean to take you away from your work here.

- No.

- We're we're gonna talk to some of these folks and find out - Yeah, please do.

- What they're doing.

Yep, you're just, I'm ready to hand 'em another hawk there, right?

- They're gonna get their own hawk full.

- Paula across one opportunity this class gives you is a lot of time to be on your knees and your hands and knees, right?

- Absolutely.

- My goodness.

What are you doing down there?

- Okay, we've gone through and we've pretty much chinked a lot of the area.

That's that wire mesh in there.

- Okay Joe was telling us about this metal that you would stuff in the cracks.

Okay then that's it.

- Yes.

- All right.

- And that provides the, a base to hold the dob.

And then we're going back in, we're doing the first coat.

It's just the skim coat to kind of cover it up, then when it dries.

And then they can go back in and do a nice finish coat on it and it looks much nicer so.

- And that's when you see what looks like a concrete layer.

- Yes, aha.

- That's that nice finish coat - Right, yes.

- But right now this is kind of green and dry.

- Yeah and you just kind of push it in.

And the one thing I've learned real fast is that you think you have a great technique and then you get three inches down the log and your technique just falls apart and you've gotta just figure out a different strategy to figure out how to do it because the logs are so uneven of course since they're not - Yeah, sire.

- From a saw mill and so you have to do it and it's great.

- And you're fighting gravity all the time, aren't you?

- Oh, absolutely.

And sometimes the cracks are so small, you gotta just get in there with your hand and just kind of push it back in.

- Sure.

- But you just really need to get that first base coat in there to provide a flat surface and everything so they can go in and do the finish coat on.

- Now, let me ask you - Looks much better that way.

- What made you wanna come here to Quincy from Decatur to learn to do this?

- Well in Decatur, we have the Lincoln Log Courthouse that at the Macon County History Museum.

- Yep.

- And then we also have a log home in the Prairie Village in the museum.

Both of 'em are gonna need some attention, some caulking or some chinking and dobbing and there's not a lot of people that know how to do that.

So I saw on the looking for Lincoln website.

- Yeah.

- They advertised that they were holding this workshop and I talked to my husband and it said, wouldn't it be fun to go up?

- Has it been fun?

- It has been a blast.

It has been so much fun.

- Yeah.

- I mean, to just learn a new craft that yeah you just, you know - So you're gonna take what you learned home to Macon County - To Macon County.

- And you'll be able to show people there how to do it there at the village.

- Yeah, absolutely, yes.

- Neat.

- Because ours is, doesn't need kind of a complete restoration like this, but it needs a lot of spot chinking and dobbing - Yeah.

- And everything and we can handle that.

We need volunteers.

- Well, and it's something you can do.

Yeah and it's something you can do if you have to.

You can do it annually.

I mean, if you teaching - Oh, yeah.

- Up people to do it you can go out there and pick spots that need it and just kind of do a little refurbish instead of the whole big deal, I guess.

- Absolutely I mean, just the maintenance so that you don't kind of have large areas all at once, but if you just keep an eye, if you know how to do it, just keep an eye on it and do it as needed.

So that's kind of what we were wanting to do, was just kind of learn how to do it from an expert.

- Right.

- So that we kind of knew what we were are doing and we learned the recipe for the dob and how to mix it, how to apply it, the steps that you need to go through that you can't just take a bunch of dob and just stick it in there - Yep.

- Because it won't dry evenly, it'll crack.

So we've learned a lot.

- Yeah, that's terrific.

- Yeah and been having a lot of fun.

- Yeah.

- Great group of people here.

- I don't wanna take you away from your work besides this is gonna dry out - Okay.

- On you if you don't use it.

- Yes, absolutely.

- So we're just gonna watch you just for a little bit more here - Oh, okay.

- And see how you do.

- Like I said, sometimes it just goes on perfectly and then sometimes you just mess completely but.

- It's just life, isn't it, Paula?

- It is.

- It's just life.

- But you know, you just kinda wanna get it in there and just get that wire covered a little bit.

- Yeah.

- And then when you've got this nice skim coat on there, then you can go back in and do the finish.

- Do the finish, huh?

- Yeah absolutely.

Thanks for talking with us.

- Yeah oh, you're welcome.

This has been a lot of fun.

- John Arnold, we were just talking to your wife about what she was doing over there.

She was applying a coat of the original, you know, the starter coat - Yeah.

- To the metal and you're doing the finishing coat.

- I'm filling it in with concrete.

So it takes a lot more dob.

- Okay.

- And then hopefully you finish with a nice, smooth surface like that.

- Does that take some technique to learn?

- Yeah because the biggest problem is just keeping the concrete in there and not falling on the floor so you have - A lot of sweeping up to do, don't you?

- Yes, you have the concrete little wetter.

- Yeah.

- And you just go in and do it a little bit at a time so.

- You can imagine.

I mean, this is kind of fun for you and your wife, but this would've been like after you worked all this to cut the logs and hue the logs and to get 'em set up here and then this would be the finishing touches.

You'd be exhausted by the time you guys do this, right?

- Oh yeah well, it would be labor intensive for sure.

- Absolutely.

So are you interested in over indicator?

Do you do some historical work?

- Yeah, I do some work with my wife over at the history museum every on then and you know, just a little bit of everything.

I like learning new things so.

- Like, has this been more difficult than you've thought before you went to these classes?

- Oh, definitely.

A lot of it is just knowing how to mix the dob, how to, how, what you need and how dry you need, trying to get a nice, smooth surface on there.

So it's more of a field than anything you learn you know.

- Do they come by and check your work and make sure it's okay?

- Well, Joe hasn't done anything yet, so I guess it's okay.

- At the end of the day, he gonna look around, take a look and see if you need - Yeah.

- To come back and do a little bit of dob.

- Come back, do it again.

But as he says, you're competing against people who used all kinds of different dobs, sed all, put anything at all in there.

So you're not competing against the real artisan who did it later in time so.

- Well hopefully what I mean, I know this is what you're hoping and what he's hoping, and John's hoping that what you're doing today is gonna last long time.

- Oh yeah.

- 'Cause you don't want to have to do this all the time.

- Yeah you don't wanna have to do it every year.

- Yeah.

- And of course, if you get it more or less weather tight, you're in pretty good shape.

- Well, I don't wanna keep you from your work.

- Okay.

- Well, Dan, you're putting the finishing touches on, but you've got a history with this building, don't you?

- Yes, I do, yeah.

- Like a couple of years.

- Yep I was on the board when we decided to put it together.

So I've been here - Yeah.

- Since we built it and check the outside and now we're here doing this stuff.

- Okay, so now you're doing the, you're we're doing what we call the dobbing, right?

- Right.

- Which is to fill in the cracks, which is kind of the finish, kind of the finishing touch.

What was the most challenging part of this building though because y'all had a, I mean, this was the oldest one.

This is an 1828 building.

There was a lot to do here.

What the most difficult challenge?

- Well, that was resembling because there were some logs that were destroyed and so we had had to find some replacements and it's important to us that we find historically significant logs.

So we tried to find those that were.

- You don't wanna put in 1900 era logs in a 1828 cabin.

- Exactly.

So that was quite a challenge and I act like it's a challenge to me, but it was a challenge to John 'cause he did most of the searching, yeah.

- Searching, yeah.

- And then the guys having to put together a cabin that was taken apart a certain way, but then having to put new logs in had always presents a challenge as well.

- And try to make those look like they blend in because in the old cabin, you take apart and you number 'em you put 'em back and you want it to look uniform, right?

- Exactly.

- You want it to look and that is the, and as you can look, I mean, when you look behind you here, except for these two by fours up here, it looks, these logs look the same.

- They all do, yes.

And there's the reason for some of the two by fours and some of the filling was that some of the newer logs did not quite fit like the old ones so they had a little wider sort of gap.

- And you gotta fill those gaps with something.

- Right.

- And we're talking about filling gaps.

Now, you're holding one of, let's see, call it a hawk.

- Exactly.

- You're holding what Joe called a hawk - Yes.

- And you got it loaded up.

Is this the finishing material?

- It is, this is a little run here and the initial stuff.

And so we will finish it up and try to - Would you go and apply a little of that for us?

Let me see what you learned in this class.

- Well, I learned that this is a great tool, the duck bill tool 'cause it's nice and thin and so when you're.

- Oh yeah.

I think all of you guys need one of those.

- Yeah.

- It's really nice.

It works.

- I think this is Joe's personal one.

He hasn't taken it back yet.

- Does he know you're using it?

- He does because he saw the mess I was making earlier and he suggested I use it.

- Oh he suggested using it.

Stop wasting.

- Hey, what you talking about?

You're using my duck bill?

- Yes, he is.

- Yeah.

- He saw what a mess you were making and how much you were wasting so he like.

- Exactly, yeah, he's saw.

He felt sorry for me.

- I think you attended class 'cause it looks like you're doing pretty good smearing that in there.

- Yeah.

- Well, you can have fun and do good at the same time.

- Yeah it's fun.

- Yeah.

- It is work, but it's fun and the good group of people that like to learn stuff and tease each other too.

- The nice thing is they can go back and train some folks to do it where they are and stuff.

- Exactly, yeah.

- Yeah, thank you, Dan.

- Okay, thank you.

- Steve last time we were at this wheel bear we were talking to Joe.

He was doing exactly what you're doing now.

- Right.

- Mixing up a batch, huh?

And I asked him what's in it and he told me, but I forgot.

So do you start with here?

I mean, I know you've got these bags opened up here.

- Right so what I started with was the sand.

- Oh that big pile of sand.

- That big pile of sand, yes.

- You guys go through it pretty quick.

- Yes, it's clean sand and it goes through pretty quick.

So we use four parts of sand, four shovel folds, two of the concrete.

- Okay.

- One of the lime and one of the gypsum.

- And what's the white bag over there.

- That is correct.

- Okay and then what you end up is with, is this the finishing stuff that we saw that okay.

- Yes for the dobbing - For the dobbing.

- Yes.

- Okay and that's the sort of smooth liquidy kind of stuff.

- Yeah.

- With a smoother, okay.

- Yeah, we put it at a base kind of like pancake batter somewhere, maybe a little bit drier than that and that helps it to stick to your surface.

- Okay.

Do you know how much water to add to this or do you just add as you need to?

- Oh yeah, we just add as we need to and what we've done here is dry, mixed everything together.

It helps it so it doesn't all clump together as you're mixing so, and then we won't mix it all at once.

It'll dry up too fast.

- Yeah, you want it to be usable while you, - Correct.

- If you put a big chuck together, it would just dry.

- Dry before we get a chance to use it.

- It'd be dried concrete while standing right there.

- Right.

- Well, let me ask you a question 'cause it's interesting that you're here 'cause you work for the Missouri parks department.

- Correct.

- Is that right?

And you've been here before to learn about log cabins and how to reconstruct 'em.

- Yes.

- Tell us the story about what you're doing over there.

- Well, I work for the First Missouri State Capitol State Historic Site and we have a log structure kind of property.

- Is that in St. Charles?.

- It is in St. Charles.

- Oh, okay.

- Yes it is.

And so that's why I came to these classes to get more knowledge of how to only we maintain, but to do major repairs.

And that's the knowledge I am gaining from Joe.

As you said, I was here in 2018, I believe it was.

Joe came to our site in 2019 and gave a same class.

Well, not the same class, but a similar class.

His was more of an evaluation class and now the chinking and daubing was going on and since I have some repairs I'm gonna have to chink and dob so here's how I get to learn how to do it.

- You know, you got a pretty neat job, don't you?

- Yes, I enjoy my job.

I really do.

- Well sure.

I mean, because when you're not there, you're here learning how to and go back - Right.

- And perform these operations that you need to do.

- Absolutely.

- But it's interesting you have to, you have that one historical log building at the Old State Capitol or there more than that?

- Well, I mean the main historical building is the, what served as first state capitol to begin with from 1821 to 1826.

So I maintained not building the grounds, plus the log structure was donated to us, I believe in the early '70s from a family out of Hillsborough, Missouri.

So that's welcomed on our site.

People from all overcome to take pictures of that.

They often ask, was that the capital?

No, if you turn around, - Yeah.

- There's the capital, but so yeah, it's a neat place.

- Yeah do you mind adding a little water doing this so we can see - Absolutely.

- The operation here.

I know we don't have a lot more time, but I would like to see it get, see you get started with it.

- See where this clean water is.

Ooh that one's got pain in it.

I don't like that one.

- Well, we don't want that.

- No so (indistinct).

- We need some get behind some clean Mississippi water.

That's what we need.

- There we go.

So all we're gonna do is, and again, we're not gonna mix up the whole batch, so we'll just pour some water in here and then we'll come back to the other side again and we'll just take just a partial amount out of this pile and get it in there.

- And away you go.

- And away we go.

- Yeah and like Joe said, this doesn't look like hard work but mixing that in there, that takes some muscle, doesn't it?

- Right, yes.

- It doesn't wanna move.

- No, it does not.

Once you start getting it, - Yeah.

- And you could tell, I didn't, clearly didn't put enough water but I didn't wanna.

- Well, waters we got a lot of - Right we have a lot of so we just continue to add water until we get the consistency - Okay.

- That we want and then everybody can have some fun.

- Well, Steve, thanks for visiting with us.

- Absolutely.

- And good luck when you go back to Missouri, the first State capital that you get, you get done what you need to do.

- Right and hank you so much.

- All right.

As you can see, I'm taking care of these log cabins down here on Quinsippi Island is an ongoing thing and they do it by major events that they have in May at the beginning of the summer and again in September.

With another Illinois story, I'm Quincy Mark McDonald.

Thanks for watching.

(bright music) - [Narrator] "Illinois Stories" is brought to you by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, Illinois Arts Council Agency, and by the supportive viewers like you.

Thank you.

(bright music)