>> Good evening, and welcome to "MetroFocus."

I'm Rafael Pi Roman.

A number of Republicans have announced plans to run for president in 2024, but almost all of them have been reluctant to consistently attack the front runner in the race, Former President Donald Trump.

But there is one candidate who seems eager to go on the offensive against Trump, and that his former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, who has publicly stated he is running not only to win, but also to ensure that Donald Trump loses.

Christie, who has gone from one of Trump's earliest mainstream supporters to one of his harshest critics, recently described the Former President as a loser and has publicly questioned Trump's fitness for elected office.

What explains Governor Christie's changed attitude towards Donald Trump?

And during his Presidential campaign, will he be more than just a guided missile rhetorically aimed at Donald Trump, as David French of "the New York Times" has put it?

Could he win?

Joining us is "MetroFocus" contributor, the one, the only Steve Adubato.

Welcome to the show.

Steve: What do I do after that introduction, Raf?

Thanks for putting pressure on me.

Let's talk Christie.

Rafael: All right.

I don't know anyone who has interviewed Chris Christie more often than you have.

The most recent interview was in April.

As far as you can tell, why is he running for president again?

Does he really think he has a shot at the nomination this time?

Steve: Every time I think, Raf, that I know Chris Christie, I realize that I don't.

Reading his mind is virtually impossible.

But my gut tells me that Chris Christie believes that if he can get on a debate stage head-to-head -- yeah, there will be other candidates, but if he has a chance to engage Donald Trump, he can take him on, he can embarrass him, he can gain in the polls, whwere right as we do this taping he is that 1, 2, 3, 4, 5% tops, he believes he can turn this entire primary upside down.

He has that much confidence in himself.

Rafael: Well, he didn't do any of that in 2016 and he was on a debate stage with Trump.

How do you respond to those who argue that this is all a grudge match?

He almost decided -- he almost said it, he said one of the things he wants most of all is to have Trump lose, as payback, for not having been named vice president by Trump or Attorney General, or even some say because he blames Trump for giving him the case of COVID that almost killed him.

What do you say to all that?

Steve: Do I think it's personal?

Yes, I do.

Do I think there's a grudge?

, yes, I do.

But it is also Chris Christie's way of saying -- you are actually right, Raf -- to go back for a second, he was on the stage in 2016 with Trump, but in his mind and the other candidates, they didn't want to take Trump on directly.

The only one I believe -- you interviewed Christie as much as I have, frankly -- you know Chris Christie could have if he chose to, but he did not take on Trump.

He knows it was a mistake.

They didn't take him seriously until it was too late.

Going back to the garage, it is personal, in my view, it is very real.

There is a vendetta here, but I also believe -- I will repeat myself, Chris Christie thinks he can take Donald Trump down.

That is his goal even if he is not ultimately, Christie, the Republican nominee.

He wants to take Trump down.

Rafael: He has been the harshest candidate so far towards Trump, by far.

Why does he think that's a winning strategy in a Republican Party whose base arguably trump supporters, MAGA supporters?

Steve: I gotta tell you, Raf, how many more indictments need to come down on Donald Trump, how much more evidence, how many more facts, how much has to happen for Donald Trump to lose his face?

-- to lose his base?

I don't see it, Raf.

I really don't.

You and I are not big on clinical prognostication, we like to talk about issues, but Trump is not losing that 30, 30 5%.

You have multiple candidates in the field including Chris Christie.

I don't see Trump's base of support falling apart.

If Chris Christie believes that is going to happen, he is mistaken.

Rafael: Although now he has his harshest critic, as we touched on, he was a big supporter, the first mainstream supporter, much to the consternation of some of Christie's supporters in 2016.

Are the never Trump is going to forget and forgive that?

Steve: I think Christie made a mistake, I really do.

He made a calculated mistake.

I could go back to 2012 and say that was his best time to run, but when Christie says it was not right for him, I defer to him.

Only he knows himself and his family.

By 2016, things that happen.

Bridgegate had happened.

The photo on the beach with the beach closed happened.

The hug, which Christie argues was never really a hug with Barack Obama during hurricane Sandy, it happened, whether people think it happened or not.

Republicans, so-called MAGA Republicans, will never forgive his Christie for what they perceive he did wrong.

I personally think there was a lot of leadership involved in Sandy, but that is not the way MAGA Republican see it.

Rafael: Governor Christie likes to tell the fact that he was a Republican governor of a deeply loose state who managed to get a lot done in a bipartisan -- deeply blue state who managed to get a lot done in a bipartisan way.

Is that an accurate assessment of his time as governor?

Steve: I say yes.

You and I were anchoring the program looking at public policy issues, and we would analyze how Christie with the Senate President at the time, a conservative moderate Democrat, they work together on pension reform, a whole range of issues, fiscal conservatism, if you will.

They worked together on so many things.

Here is the problem, Raf, working together with Democrats, comprising, getting things done does not seem to appeal to the Republicans constituency that is going to dictate with Republican nominee is.

They are not into compromise, they are not into working with Democrats.

They are into "get the libs."

That is not what Chris Christie is all about, and so it may not work out what he thinks he is able to do with this constituency.

Timing's off, constituency's off.

It's a different Republican Party.

Rafael: Besides touting his ability to be a bipartisan and reach across the aisle, which as you say may or may not be a good thing -- probably not -- Steve: It's a good thing for government.

Rafael: Of course.

For winning the nomination, and aside from going after Trump, is there one issue, is there a cluster of issues that he is campaigning for or on?

Steve: It's very simple.

You said in the introduction, Raf.

Chris Christie's main argument beyond the issue of integrity, or lack thereof perceived by many regarding Donald Trump -- beyond all the criminal charges,, civil charges the charges that may come in the future, Chris Christie's main argument is Donald Trump is a loser.

He lost one election after another.

Do you want -- this is Christie's argument -- do you want to lose again?

It's technically correct, but that MAGA base -- I'm a broken record now -- whether he wins or loses, they are going to stay with Trump.

It doesn't matter what Christie says.

But he is technically correct that Donald Trump has been a loser starting before 2020 in the midterm elections, a big time loser for the Republican Party.

Rafael: It's difficult to talk about Christie's current presidential campaign without bringing up Bridgegate, which you already have.

And that is the thing that probably torpedoed his 2016 campaign long before it started.

Summarize what Bridgegate entailed as far as -- and to tell us if you think it is likely to impact his campaign this time.

Steve: there is Bridgegate and then there is the way he frames Bridgegate.

I don't know what ultimately happened.

To be clear, Chris Christie was never charged in the Bridgegate case, but some of his closest aides -- he says they were not very close aides -- Rafael: the two people convicted, all three of them say he was in on it from the beginning.

But he wasn't charged with anything, as you say.

Steve: And Chris Christie says his greatest crime -- I don't mean criminal Graham -- his greatest mistake was trusting people in his orbit, his staff the case is this, that the George Washington Bridge was closed down for several hours, as you and the world know, Raf, close down because the mayor of Fort Lee, New Jersey, whose name is not even relevant right now, did not support Chris Christie, and because Fort Lee is right by the bridge, as political retribution they were going to close down the ridge and pay him back for not supporting Christie.

And it caused havoc, it causes a horrible traffic jam, it caused way worse than that, and there was a case involved, criminal charges were brought, and there was a terrible embarrassment.

Bridgegate was a black mark on the Christie administration, even though Christie says it wasn't him and he didn't know, those involved in the case said who relatively convicted said he did.

It doesn't look good, never looked good, and it never will.

Rafael: It's not going to go away, right?

Steve: No.

A lot of things people forget in politics, Raf.

That is not something you forget anytime soon.

Rafael: Something else you don't forget that you already brought up -- much less important than Bridgegate -- is Beachgate.

Fourth of July weekend 2017, actually, where he was photographed catching rays on the public beach when he had closed all the public beaches for all other New Jerseyans because of a budget dispute with the legislature.

When he was confronted with that, when he was asked, what do you say to other New Jerseyans would've liked to have been at the beach, he said, "well, they should run for governor."

That is funny funny, but we have known Christie -- that is pretty funny, but we have known Christie for a long time and we were the first to interview him on TV -- Steve: As U.S. attorney.

Rafael: That guy had political skills.

What happened?

Steve: You know, Raf, to his credit, and too late, in my view, he acknowledged it was a mistake to be on that beach -- not just to be photographed on the beach, but to be on the beach at the time when other New Jerseyans could not enjoy the beach.

But at the time, as you very accurately describe, he pushed back, basically said if you were the governor, you could do it, too.

That is a "let them eat cake" mentality, and -- Rafael: that sticks with people.

Steve: I wish Chris Christie just said "I was wrong, I shouldn't have been on the beach."

You could have turned it around, but he didn't do that, and that added to the Bridgegate situation.

Rafael: What is his biggest contribution to this campaign, Win or lose?

Steve: I think he will take a few big chunks out of Donald Trump.

I don't know if Trump ever gets on the debate stage with him, but if he does, I bet on Christie nicking him up pretty bad.

He will go down fighting, I know Chris Christie that way.

Rafael: We have to ended there.

Thanks for joining us.

Pleasure and a lot of fun.

Steve: my honor as always, Raf.