♪ MUSIC REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM THE HEALY FOUNDATION.

TAOS, NM HELLO, I'M LORENE MILLS, AND WELCOME TO A VERY IMPORTANT EDITION OF REPORT FROM SANTA FE.

OUR RETURNING GUEST, BECAUSE YOU HAVE SO MUCH TO TEACH US, IS CHRIS SCHAUM, WHO IS A WILDFIRE MITIGATOR, BUT HE'S ALSO DONE A LOT OF WORK PREPARING KIDS TO KNOW HOW TO DEAL WITH FIRES, TO KNOW A GOOD FIRE FROM A BAD FIRE, AND HOW TO GET TO SAFETY AND WHO TO TRUST WITH THINGS LIKE THIS.

IT NEEDS TO BE IN THE SCHOOL, YOU ARE SO RIGHT, AND YOUR BOOKS NEED TO BE IN LIBRARIES, THEY NEED TO BE AT FIRE STATIONS, THEY NEED TO BE EVERYWHERE BECAUSE KIDS HAVE TO BE EMPOWERED AND KNOW WHEN IT'S SMART TO BE AFRAID AND WHEN IT'S OKAY AND WHO YOU CAN TRUST, SO WELCOME.

>>CHRIS: THANKS, THANKS FOR HAVING ME BACK.

THIS IS MORE OF THE FUN PROGRAM, RIGHT, THE KIDS PROGRAM.

I THINK MANY YEARS AGO, I'VE BEEN DOING THIS ALMOST 40 YEARS OF DOING MITIGATION SPECIALTY KIND OF WORK, REALIZING THAT I WAS NEVER GOING TO GET SOCIETY TO EMBRACE DOING MITIGATION.

I JUST CAN'T GET SOMEBODY TO CLEAN OUT THEIR GUTTERS ON A CONSISTENT BASIS, IT'S REALLY A DIFFICULT THING, AND IT WAS, TO ME, A LOT LIKE WEARING A SEATBELT, ONE TIME WE DIDN'T WEAR A SEATBELT, AND THEN WE ALL SWAM AROUND THE BACK OF OUR PARENTS VEHICLES, AND NOW YOU'D BE AN IDIOT TO GO DOWN THE HIGHWAY WITHOUT A SEATBELT ON.

SO I THOUGHT A LOT ABOUT HOW TO DO THIS AND HOW TO GET THE WHOLE SOCIETY TO START TO CHANGE OVER.

I DO HAVE A LITTLE ONE, I'VE HAD SOME OLDER ONES NOW ALSO, AND I REALIZED THAT WHEN A CHILD ASKS YOU, LIKE, HEY, WHY ARE YOU DRINKING THAT ALCOHOL OR SMOKING OR NOT WEARING YOUR SEATBELT, THAT'S A DIFFERENT SITUATION THAN SOMEBODY LIKE ME TELLING YOU TO CLEAN YOUR GUTTERS.

SO WE'VE DEVELOPED PROGRAMS FOR SCHOOL SYSTEMS, AND WE HAVE TWO DIFFERENT WAYS OF DOING THAT, ONE'S GOING TO BE ON THE ACTUAL FIRE ITSELF TOWARDS THE SCHOOLS AND THE OTHER ONE WILL BE ON THE SMOKE LEVEL.

BUT WE DEVELOPED IT FROM A LONG TIME AGO WHERE WE BROUGHT IN INFORMATION FROM WHAT WAS CALLED AMERICA BURNING BACK IN THE 60S AND THE 70S, RIGHT AROUND 1970, BEFORE THAT FIRE DEPARTMENTS, BECAUSE I USED TO BE A FIREFIGHTER, WE USED TO GET CALLS AND WE'D GO TO THE CALLS AND WE'D PUT OUT THE FIRE.

BUT WE WERE LOSING LIKE 12,000 PEOPLE A YEAR IN THE UNITED STATES TO FIRES, LIKE EVERY TIME YOU HEARD THE NEWS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, YOU SAW A HIGH-RISE BUILDING ON FIRE, AN APARTMENT BUILDING ON FIRE, PEOPLE WERE DYING RIGHT AND LEFT OF FIRES.

SO THEN WE DEVELOPED SOMETHING WHERE WE WERE LIKE, WAIT A MINUTE, CAN WE DO SOME CODES FOR THE BUILDINGS THEMSELVES, CAN WE DEVELOP SPRINKLER SYSTEMS AND SMOKE ALARMS AND A BUNCH OF OTHER THINGS AND BASICALLY, YOU WERE MITIGATING THE FIRES.

AND THEN BY 1974, WE HAD LESS THAN 4,000 PEOPLE DYING A YEAR, AND IT WAS VERY SUCCESSFUL AND THAT WAS KIND OF THE START OF HOW WE DID THINGS, AND IT WAS JUST A GREAT TIME TO BE IN THE FIRE DEPARTMENT TO SEE HOW SUCCESSFUL THOSE PROGRAMS WERE.

BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE DEVELOPED WAS EDUCATION, AND THROUGH THAT, STOP, DROP, AND ROLL, WAS A BIG PART OF MY CAREER AND VERY SUCCESSFUL, BUT THAT'S ALL FOR THE INTERIOR OF STRUCTURES, AND WE LIVE IN A COMMUNITY WHERE WILDFIRES ARE ON A CONSISTENT BASIS.

DEPENDING ON WHERE WE LIVE AND THE VEGETATION THAT WE HAVE, IT'S SOMEWHERE AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF 10 YEARS, WE'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE WILDFIRES COME THROUGH AND DO THEIR THING AND AS WE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE, THE FIRE DEPARTMENTS THEMSELVES, LIKE THE CITY OF SANTA FE BEING A FULLY STAFFED, FUNCTIONAL FIRE DEPARTMENT, CAN ONLY HANDLE APPROXIMATELY TWO STRUCTURES AT ANY ONE TIME.

SO THE ABILITY TO DO THIS IS DIFFICULT AND HOW TO DO THAT CORRECTLY IS A SCIENCE, BUT A SCIENCE BASED ON EXPERTISE ALSO, IT'S NOT JUST MODELING AND DIFFERENT TYPES OF SCIENCE.

SO ALL THAT PUT TOGETHER REALLY HELPS DEVELOP THESE PROGRAMS, AND THIS IS WHAT WE CAME UP WITH AND WE'RE GOING TO BE BRINGING IT TO OUR STATE REPRESENTATIVES AND ALSO TO THE CITIES AND THE COUNTIES, TO THE SCHOOL SYSTEMS AND WE'RE GOING TO REALLY KIND OF HELP THEM NAVIGATE THIS WHOLE PROCESS.

ONE OF THE THINGS I USED TO DO A LONG TIME AGO IS I WAS PART OF THOSE USAR TEAMS, WHICH WERE THE UNITED STATES SEARCH AND RESCUE TEAMS.

SCHOOLS, LIKE AFTER A DISASTER, WERE THE PLACE WHERE EVERYBODY WOULD GO FOR A SHELTER, RIGHT, BUT OUR SCHOOLS AREN'T REALLY DESIGNED TO HANDLE FIRE FROM THE OUTSIDE, AND ALSO THE SMOKE LEVEL AND WE CAN BREAK INTO THOSE, BUT THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE'VE DEVELOPED AND WE'VE DEVELOPED A CHILDREN'S PROGRAM TO HELP THEM NAVIGATE FIRES THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE NATURAL AND ALSO SOMETHING THAT THEY CAN FEEL SAFE ABOUT, WHETHER THE FIRE IS GOOD OR THE FIRE IS BAD AND HOW TO ACTUALLY DEAL WITH THAT WITHOUT BEING IN A PANIC MODE AND ACTUALLY HAVE SKILLS IN ORDER TO DEAL WITH THIS.

>>LORENE: THERE ARE SOME TESTS IN THESE BOOKLETS THAT INVITE THE READER TO ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS.

I WAS SURPRISED I DID NOT DO VERY WELL AND I REALIZED I'M EXHIBIT A OF HOW ORDINARY CITIZENS NEED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THIS.

THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS, FOR EXAMPLE, I THINK 90% OF FIRES ARE MAN-CAUSED, UNLESS YOU'RE ABOVE 10,000 FEET, AND THEN IT'S LIGHTNING-CAUSED.

TALK TO ME ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN ELECTRICITY, ELECTRICAL SYSTEMS, OLD HOUSES, AND FIRES, I'D LIKE TO LOOK AT THE LANDSCAPE FIRES AND COMMUNITY FIRES AND THINGS, BUT JUST IN TERMS OF OLD HOUSES BURNING DOWN.

>>CHRIS: IT'S QUITE COMMON AND I THINK WE'VE ALSO TALKED IN THE PAST ABOUT THE DIFFERENT TYPE OF YOU KNOW, IN THE UNITED STATES, WE PROMOTED THE USE OF WOOD FOR BUILDING OF HOMES, RIGHT, AND YES, OUR OLD ELECTRICAL SYSTEMS THAT WE USED TO HAVE WEREN'T UP TO CODES, DIDN'T HAVE GROUNDS, WE DID HAVE A LOT OF SYSTEMS THAT FAILED, AND YES, THEY WOULD BURN DOWN, AND THEY WOULD HAVE A LOT OF STRUCTURE FIRES.

WE DON'T HAVE AS MANY STRUCTURE FIRES NOW, JUST BECAUSE OF ADVANCEMENTS AND KNOWLEDGE, ALL OF IT PUT TOGETHER HAS REALLY BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL, BUT IT'S ALSO NOT ALLOWED US TO REALLY SEE WHAT THE HAZARDS ARE THAT ARE FACING US, BECAUSE WE'RE STILL FIXATED ON JUST THAT ONE STYLE OF HOMES BURNING DOWN.

>>LORENE: SO I LOVE THAT THROUGH THESE BOOKS, YOU'RE TEACHING KIDS TO REACT AND INTERACT WITH FIRES, WITH SEEING IT, SEEING WHETHER IT'S A GOOD FIRE OR BAD FIRE, AND EMPOWERING THEM THROUGH EDUCATION TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE.

IS IT TRUE THERE IS NO FIRE SEASON ANYMORE, IT'S ALL YEAR?

>>CHRIS: WELL, THAT'S THE TRUTH, EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT WE DON'T HAVE JUST FIRE SEASONS ANYMORE, BUT I THINK THAT'S TRUE THROUGHOUT MOST OF THE WORLD NOW.

WE'RE GOING TO SEE A LARGE INCREASE IN WILDFIRES, BUT ALSO OTHER DISASTERS AND I KIND OF GREW UP IN THE SENSE OF BELIEVING, I DRANK THE KOOL-AID OF SUPPRESS ALL FIRES AND BECAUSE OF THAT, IT'S ONE OF THE ISSUES, NOT ALL OF THE ISSUES, BUT ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT GOT US INTO WHERE WE ARE TODAY.

NOW WE DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO SUPPRESS ONCE THEY GET UP TO A CERTAIN SIZE OR BASICALLY WHAT I FOCUS ON IS WIND, WIND-DRIVEN FIRES GOING THROUGH A RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITY, AND HOW THAT INTERACTS WITH THE COMMUNITY, AND HOW TO DEAL WITH THAT.

THAT IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM A FOREST FIRE AND WE SEE FOREST FIRES AND YES, WE'RE LIKE, PLEASE PUT THEM OUT, PLEASE PUT THEM OUT, BUT MOST OF THE TIME NOW, THEY'RE JUST ALLOWING SOME TO BURN IF THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT WITHOUT CAUSING MORE DAMAGE TO ALLOW IT TO TAKE OUT AND CLEAN UP THE FOREST.

BUT THEN THE FOREST BURNS TOO HOT, AND THE SMOKE CAUSES A LOT MORE DAMAGE AND IT CAUSES GREENHOUSE ISSUES WITH THE SMOKE.

>>LORENE: YEAH, I WANT TO GET TO SMOKE, BUT ONE OTHER THING.

SPOKANE RECENTLY HAD VERY BAD FIRES, AND THEY DECIDED THEY COULDN'T PUT THEM OUT, THEY WERE INEXTINGUISHABLE.

>>CHRIS: YES, THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I DEAL WITH, AND I SPECIALIZE IN THAT ONE AREA WHERE I DEAL WITH RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITY PATHWAYS AND HOW TO INTERACT WITH THAT STYLE OF FIRE, HOW TO MITIGATE IT, HOW TO MAKE NODES AND SWATHS AND DIFFERENT TYPES OF MITIGATION THAT'S VERY PRECISE, THAT OTHER PEOPLE DON'T REALLY KNOW ABOUT YET.

BUT THOSE ARE ACTUALLY SOMETHING THAT WE CAN DEAL WITH QUITE A BIT ALSO.

ONCE THEY GET INTO TOWNS AND START TAKING OUT A BUNCH OF STRUCTURES, THEN THEY'LL BLOW THROUGH, AND ONE STRUCTURE BURNING IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FIRE MODEL THAN A TREE BURNING IN THE FOREST.

SO THAT'S DIFFERENT, AND WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT, ESPECIALLY THE SMOKE THAT COMES WITH IT.

>>LORENE: YES, YEAH, YEAH.

SO I UNDERSTAND YOU CAN GET FREE AIR QUALITY ALERTS SENT TO YOU FROM THE ENVIRONMENT DEPARTMENT IF YOU SIGN UP FOR THEM AND SO I SIGNED UP, AND THEY SAID, OH, THERE'S A LITTLE OZONE, BUT YOU'RE OKAY.

BUT IT'S REALLY NICE THAT THERE'S SOMEWHERE WHERE YOU CAN GO TO CHECK TO KNOW WHAT THE CONDITIONS ARE, BUT WHAT IS IT THAT MAKES WILDFIRE SMOKE AND EVEN BURNING HOUSES SO TOXIC, WHAT IS SO DANGEROUS ABOUT THIS SMOKE?

>>CHRIS: WELL, IT PRODUCES CO AND CO2, DEPENDING ON HOW CLOSE YOU ARE TO THE FIRE ITSELF, THE CARBON DIOXIDE IS KIND OF THE ONE THAT WE WORRY ABOUT WITH THE SCHOOL SYSTEMS, BUT REALLY, IT'S MORE OF THE PARTICULATE MATTER.

SO THE PARTICULATE MATTER, WHICH IS 2.5 AND IF YOU RESEARCH THAT A LITTLE BIT WITHOUT EVEN GOING INTO SOME GREAT DETAIL, WHAT OUR ISSUES ARE, ARE YOUNG KIDS AREN'T FULLY DEVELOPED.

THEY BREATHE A LOT FASTER, THEIR BODY SYSTEMS AREN'T ABLE TO HANDLE SMOKE THE SAME WAY AS ADULTS, THE ELDERLY DON'T HANDLE SMOKE VERY WELL EITHER, AND WHAT THAT DOES TO OUR BODIES AND HOW THAT AFFECTS US.

SO REALLY, THE SMOKE LEVELS ON THE OUTSIDE BEFORE THE HVAC SYSTEMS, YOU KNOW, WHAT THAT CAN TOLERATE AND WHAT THAT'S DEVELOPED FOR, BUT WE GO IN AND WE WERE LOOKING FOR BETTER FILTERS, WE'RE LOOKING FOR LEAKS THROUGHOUT THE BUILDINGS AND HOW WE CAN MAKE SAFE ROOMS WITH LIKE HEPA FILTERS THAT ARE PORTABLE AND BECAUSE OF THAT, WE CAN MONITOR THE INSIDE AIR QUALITY, NOT JUST THE OUTSIDE.

SO A LOT OF US HAVE THE APPS NOW, BUT WE'RE ABLE TO DEVELOP A MUCH HIGHER LEVEL SYSTEM AND THE REASON WHY WE WANT THAT IS BECAUSE NOT ONLY DOES IT HELP PROTECT OUR KIDS, BUT WE CAN HAVE A SYSTEM SET UP SO THAT WHEN THE MATRIX HAPPENS, FIRE AND HOW CLOSE IT IS AND WHAT THE PARTICULATE MATTER IS AND WHAT THAT DOES TO THESE CLASSROOMS, YOU KNOW, WHAT IT IS THAT THEY NEED TO KNOW AND HOW TO GET CHILDREN INTO A SAFE, OPERABLE AREA FOR THEM TO GO TO SCHOOL AND NOT MISS SCHOOL AND HAVE A SAFE PLACE TO LEARN FROM.

>>LORENE: WELL, WE'RE SPEAKING TODAY WITH CHRIS SCHAUM, WHO IS A DEVELOPER OF A PROGRAM CALLED MITIGATION THAT MATTERS AND IT'S A WAY OF ADDRESSING HOW TO KEEP EVERYONE SAFE AND HEALTHY.

BUT I THINK ONE OF THE TRAININGS THAT YOU OFFER IN THESE PAMPHLETS, IN THESE BOOKLETS, IS HOW TO TEACH KIDS TO BE AWARE, HOW TO SEE WHAT'S GOING ON, MAYBE THERE'S SMOKE OVER THERE AND IS IT OK HOW ARE KIDS RESPONDING TO THIS?

>>CHRIS: THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

A LONG TIME AGO, I THINK IT WAS AROUND 2016 WHEN THE INSURANCE COMPANIES WERE CONTACTING ME, AND I WAS TRYING TO DEVELOP PROGRAMS TO MITIGATE FIRES FROM ACTUALLY HAPPENING TO THE LEVEL THAT THEY BECAME.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I DID NOTICE IS THE SCHOOLS THEMSELVES, AND ALSO THE PARENTS, THEY HAVE BEEN REMOVED FROM FIRE, LIKE WE'VE PUT OUT, SUPPRESSED ALL THESE FIRES, SO THEY REALLY DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE AROUND FIRES, AND THEN THEY SEE IT ON THE NEWS, AND IT'S ALMOST TO A PROBLEM OF BEING A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE.

YOU GO THROUGH A MAJOR FIRE, AND YOUR HOUSE IS GONE, AND EVERYTHING YOU'VE HAD IS LOST, AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO AND WHETHER YOU REBUILD OR NOT, I MEAN, THE WHOLE COMMUNITY IS DEVASTATED FROM FIRES, AND WE CAN DO MUCH BETTER THAN THAT.

SO FIRE ITSELF IS PREDICTABLE AND PREVENTABLE, AND MOST PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THAT, BUT IT IS.

AS A DISASTER, WE CAN ACTUALLY HANDLE THIS AND HANDLE IT IN SUCH A WAY THAT PEOPLE CAN NAVIGATE THROUGH IT, BUT I CAN'T DO THAT WITH THE ADULTS AT THIS POINT, IT'S THE KIDS THAT HAVE TO CARRY THE TORCH.

SO WHAT I'M DOING IS DEVELOPING PROGRAMS FOR THEM, JUST LIKE STOP, DROP, AND ROLL, TO BE ABLE TO GO THROUGH A WILDFIRE EVENT AND HOW TO NAVIGATE IT, AND NOT TO BE IN A PANIC FEAR STATE AND NOT TO MAKE IT YOUR MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE AND HOW TO LIVE THROUGH THIS, BECAUSE WE DO LIVE IN THAT FIRE COMMUNITY, WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BURN.

>>LORENE: HOW DO YOU, WITHOUT BEING TOO SCARY, HOW DO YOU TALK ABOUT THE TOXICITY OF THE SMOKE IN A WAY THAT CAN BE USEFUL AND POSITIVE INFORMATION AND NOT SCARE KIDS?

>>CHRIS: I GET THAT FROM PARENTS, LIKE DON'T SCARE MY KIDS.

BACK TO THE SEATBELT THING, PROBABLY THE MOST DANGEROUS THING THAT WE DO EVERY DAY IS DRIVE DOWN I-25, DOWN THE HIGHWAY, AND WE TRY TO FIGURE OUT A SYSTEM OF TEACHING OUR KIDS LIKE, YEP, THERE'S A LOT OF ISSUES WITH DRIVING DOWN THE HIGHWAY, AND IT ALSO CAN BE EXASPERATED WITH WEATHER EVENTS AND OTHER THINGS BUT WE HAVE A WAY OF DEALING WITH THAT AND BEING AWARE OF WHAT'S OUT THERE AND HOW TO NAVIGATE IT, WHAT WE HAVE AROUND US AND WHAT ARE OUR TOOLS AND WHAT ARE OUR ABILITIES, AND PUTTING IT ALL TOGETHER TO MAKE THINGS SAFER FOR EVERYBODY AND THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I HELP DEVELOP.

YOU KNOW, WHEN I TALK TO A CHILD, I WANT THEM TO REALLY BE AWARE OF THEIR SURROUNDINGS AND HOW TO NAVIGATE IT CORRECTLY.

ONE OF MY YOUNG CHILDREN JUST TURNED SEVEN THE OTHER DAY, AND WE DID RIGHT AROUND THE AGE OF THREE, WE LIVE UP IN THE FOREST, AND WE TALKED ABOUT BEARS AND MOUNTAIN LIONS, WHICH WE HAVE LOTS OF, AND WHAT I EXPECT FROM HIM, HOW TO NAVIGATE IT.

YES, IT MAY SEEM DANGEROUS, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IT'S NOT THAT DANGEROUS IF YOU LIVE IN THAT WORLD AND HOW TO DEAL WITH IT.

THAT'S ALL I'M DOING, IS TEACHING A PROGRAM TO MAKE IT SAFE FOR EVERYBODY TO LIVE THROUGH IT.

>>LORENE: SO DO KIDS, CAN YOU ACTUALLY EMPOWER KIDS, I MEAN, THEY SEE THE SMOKE IN THE DISTANCE OVER THERE, AND THEY HAVE A PROTOCOL, THEY HAVE A PROCEDURE TO FIND OUT MORE INFORMATION FROM A TRUSTED SOURCE AND TO ANALYZE THE IMPORTANCE OF SAFETY AND WHAT THEY NEED TO DO.

>>CHRIS: YES, YEAH, I THINK IT'S ACTUALLY MUCH EASIER TO COMMUNICATE THAT THROUGH A CHILD OF WHAT TO DO AND HOW TO DO IT.

MOST OF THE TIME, WE'RE MORE FEAR-BASED THE OLDER WE GET, BUT THE YOUNGER ONES WANT THE KNOWLEDGE, THEY WANT THE ABILITY TO HELP THROUGH THE REALLY DIFFICULT TIMES AND YOU KNOW, GIVING THEM CERTAIN TASKS THAT THEY CAN EASILY HANDLE TO HELP OUT HOW CAN PARENTS, SCHOOLS, LIBRARIES, FIRE STATIONS, HOW CAN PEOPLE BE MORE ACTIVE TO BE SURE ALL THIS INFORMATION GETS OUT, ESPECIALLY EMPOWERING KIDS TO KNOW WHAT TO LOOK FOR AND THEN WHO TO TELL AND WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT.

>>CHRIS: YEAH, THIS IS WHERE I NEED A LOT OF HELP.

I NEED A LOT OF HELP FROM THE COMMUNITY, THE SCHOOL BOARDS, THE STATE REPRESENTATIVES.

A LOT OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE HELP PUSHING IT THROUGH AND DEVELOPING IT IN SUCH A WAY THAT IT'S IN THE BEST INTEREST OF EVERYONE.

BUT WE ALSO WILL BE THE LEADERS IN THE UNITED STATES AND THROUGHOUT THE WORLD IF WE CAN DO IT IN SUCH A WAY WHERE WE'RE NOT JUST DOING THE SMOKE, BUT WE'RE DOING THE HARDENING OF THE STRUCTURES THEMSELVES.

SO WE ARE GOING TO DEVELOP THIS INCLUSIVE TO MAKE THOSE SCHOOLS SAFE ZONES, NOT THE PLACE THAT WE'RE GOING TO GO TO FIRST IF WE CAN ESCAPE OUT FROM A FOREST FIRE OR SMOKE EVENT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BUT WE'D LIKE TO DESIGN THEM IN SUCH A WAY THAT THEY CAN BE THE SAFE HOUSES.

THEY HAVE BEEN MITIGATED IN SUCH A WAY AND DEVELOPED IN SUCH A WAY THAT THEY HAVE VERY LITTLE POSSIBILITY OF BURNING AND IF YOU ARE ENTRAPPED, LIKE SOME COMMUNITIES HAVE BEEN IN THE PAST, WE'VE SEEN THEM IN CALIFORNIA RECENTLY, WHERE PEOPLE ARE STANDING IN PARKING LOTS HOPING FOR THE BEST.

>>LORENE: BECAUSE THEY TRIED TO DRIVE AWAY AND IT WAS GRIDLOCKED.

>>CHRIS: IT'S GRIDLOCKED AND SO UNDERSTANDING HOW ALL THAT'S DONE, BUT WHAT I'VE DEVELOPED ARE, YOU KNOW, I ACTUALLY DO THIS WORK, WHICH IS DIFFERENT THAN MOST PEOPLE.

THEY USUALLY DESIGN MODELS OR ALARMS OR CAMERAS AND ALL THAT STUFF, AND THAT STUFF'S ALL GREAT, BUT IT DOESN'T SOLVE THE ISSUE.

WE DEVELOP IT IN SUCH A WAY THAT, YOU KNOW, WE ALSO EVEN HAVE A GROUP OF THE GOAT GUYS THAT ARE BRINGING GOATS WHERE LITTLE ELM TREES ALONG THE FENCE LINES, LIKE THE LANDSCAPES CAN'T GET TO AND DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY.

SO, WE WOULD DO THE PATHWAYS, EGRESS, AND ALSO MAKE IT SAFE PLACES, A SAFE HAVEN FOR THE COMMUNITY, BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT THOSE PLACES HAVE BEEN DESIGNED AND MAINTAINED FOR FIRE, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE FIRE.

AND EVEN WITH THE WORST DAYS, LIKE MY 13 LEVELS OF MODELING PROGRAMMING, I HAVE DESIGNED A PROGRAM THAT ALL I HAVE TO DO IS PUT IN YOUR ADDRESS AND IT WILL KICK BACK EXACTLY ALL THE MAPS, WHERE THE FIRE IS GOING TO COME FROM, HOW IT'S GOING TO COME ALL THE WAY THROUGH AND, YOU KNOW, WHERE ARE THE AREAS THAT NEED TO BE MITIGATED AND ALL THAT STUFF.

ALL THIS CAN BE TAKEN CARE OF FAIRLY EASILY, WE JUST NEED SUPPORT FROM THE COMMUNITY AND WE NEED SUPPORT FROM OUR REPRESENTATIVES.

>>LORENE: WELL, WE'RE SPEAKING TODAY WITH CHRIS SCHAUM, WHO AMONG OTHER THINGS, STARTED A PROGRAM CALLED MITIGATION THAT MATTERS, WHERE THE COMMUNITIES AND INDIVIDUALS CAN WORK TOGETHER TO IDENTIFY THE RISKS AND RAISE THE RESOURCES AND THEN EDUCATE EVERYONE.

I THINK WHEN THE WINDS CHANGE, WHEN THE WIND CHANGES, IT'S SUCH A WONDERFUL IDEA, I WANT THIS EVERYWHERE, I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW ABOUT IT.

BUT I'M VERY GRATEFUL THAT YOU CAME IN TODAY AND TOLD US ABOUT IT AND HOW CAN WE GET MORE INFORMATION?

>>CHRIS: WELL, WE'LL HAVE THE BOOKS OUT SOON AND LOOK FOR ME WHEN YOU SEE THE SCHOOL BOARDS, REACH OUT TO ME AT ANY TIME, I'M SURE YOU'LL PUT OUT MY EMAIL ADDRESS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

IF YOU WANT SOME HELP IN YOUR COMMUNITY, WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO GET THESE GOING AND REALLY HELP GET THIS WHOLE PROCESS STARTED.

>>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.

THIS IS ONE OF THEM, WHEN THE WIND CHANGES AND THE OTHER ONE IS GROWING UP WITH FIRE .

YEAH, THAT'S SO IMPORTANT.

>>CHRIS: SO ONE IS HOW TO DEAL WITH FIRE AND HOW TO BE SAFE AROUND IT AND WHAT THEY CAN DO AROUND THEIR HOMES AND HELP OUT THE COMMUNITY AND THAT KIND OF STUFF.

THE OTHER ONE IS MORE ABOUT BEING AWARE OF YOUR AREAS THAT YOU LIVE IN AND ACTUALLY HOW TO NAVIGATE DURING A FIRE AND WHAT TO DO.

>>LORENE: SO IT'S CRUCIAL INFORMATION AND I'M SO HAPPY, CHRIS, OUR GUEST TODAY IS CHRIS SCHAUM AND I'M SO HAPPY THAT YOU BROUGHT THESE TO US.

LET'S STAY IN TOUCH, THERE SHOULD BE SOME PUBLIC FUNDING TO GET THIS MATERIAL OUT, IS THERE, ARE THERE NON-PROFITS?

>>CHRIS: WE'RE APPLYING TO ALL SORTS OF DIFFERENT PUBLIC FUNDING, BUT SOMETIMES IT TAKES A WHILE.

>>LORENE: IT DOES, ALTHOUGH IT IS A BURNING ISSUE.

>>CHRIS: WE'RE ACTIVELY GOING AFTER IT AND I DO THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO REALIZE THAT SUPPRESSION IS HELPFUL, BUT WE'VE ACTUALLY CREATED A BIGGER PROBLEM, MITIGATION IS THE ONLY WAY TO ACTUALLY DO THIS CORRECTLY.

>>LORENE: DO YOU KNOW THE WEBSITE OFF THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD?

>>CHRIS: MITIGATIONTHATMATTERS.COM >>LORENE: MITIGATIONTHATMATTERS.COM WELL, THIS HAS REALLY MATTERED A LOT TO ME, THANK YOU SO MUCH, CHRIS, FOR COMING AND WE'LL BE BACK WITH AN UPDATE ABOUT ALL THIS TOO.

AND I'M LORENE MILLS, I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU, OUR AUDIENCE, FOR COMING TODAY TO BE WITH US ON THIS VERY IMPORTANT, LIFE-SAVING, LIFE-ALTERING EDITION OF REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM THE HEALY FOUNDATION, TAOS, NM.

♪ MUSIC