♪ MUSIC REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM THE HEALY FOUNDATION, TAOS, NM.

HELLO, I'M LORENE MILLS, I'D LIKE TO WELCOME YOU TO REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

TODAY WE HAVE A VERY IMPORTANT SHOW ABOUT THE SITUATION THAT CONCERNS ALL OF US, WHICH IS WILDFIRES AND OUR GUEST TODAY IS A WILDFIRE MITIGATION SPECIALIST, AMONG MANY OTHER THINGS, CHRIS SCHAUM.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>CHRIS: THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>>LORENE: WELL, PEOPLE ARE SO CONCERNED WITH SPAIN AND FRANCE BURNING, BURNING, BURNING, THEY SAY THOSE FIRES WON'T BE OUT UNTIL NOVEMBER.

THEY'VE EVACUATED AS MANY PEOPLE AS THEY DID, FROM FRANCE, AS THEY DID IN WORLD WAR II, I MEAN, THE SCALE OF THIS IS SO BIG.

AND APPARENTLY, GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE GROUND ZERO IS EUROPE, AND THEY'RE JUST HOT, AND THEY DON'T HAVE AIR CONDITIONING.

I MEAN, IT'S A REAL PROBLEM FOR THEM.

SO THESE APOCALYPTIC WILDFIRES ARE SCARING EVERYBODY.

THEY SAY THERE'S A SPANISH FORESTRY SCIENTIST AND GLOBAL CHANGE SCHOLAR WHO SAID, WE ARE ENTERING AN ERA WHERE FIRES CANNOT BE EXTINGUISHED AND THAT THE BLAZES ARE BURNING WITH THE INTENSITY OF AN A-BOMB.

AGAIN, THE HUGE EVACUATIONS, WHERE DO YOU PUT AN EXTRA 220,000 PEOPLE THAT HAD TO LEAVE THEIR HOMES, MAYBE WITH NOTHING.

SO THEN, AS THE INTERNATIONAL NEWS IS SHOWING US, THERE ARE GYMNASIUMS FULL OF SINGLE BEDS, THREE FEET APART AND, YOU KNOW, KIDS CLUTCHING TEDDY BEARS AND PEOPLE WITH A LITTLE SUITCASE OF ALL THEY COULD GRAB BEFORE THEY HAD TO GO.

SO ONE OF THE CONTEXTS I WANT TO, PEOPLE SAY IT CAN'T HAPPEN HERE, IT WON'T HAPPEN HERE, I THINK WE HAVE TO EXPAND OUR POSSIBILITY HORIZON TO REALIZE THAT IT IS HAPPENING IN MANY PLACES AND UNTIL WE DO THE KIND OF MITIGATION THAT YOU TALK ABOUT, UNTIL WE REALLY LOOK WITH A COLD EYE ON WHAT'S HAPPENING, OR A VERY WARM EYE IN THIS CASE.

SO, TELL US WHAT IS MITIGATION THAT MATTERS AND WHAT DO WE NEED, WHAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT WILDFIRES?

>>CHRIS: THOSE ARE ALL REALLY GOOD QUESTIONS, SO LET'S BREAK THAT DOWN.

SO, EUROPE IS GOING THROUGH A SITUATION THAT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE'RE GOING THROUGH, BUT IN THE SAME RIGHT, IT'S ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME.

CLIMATE PATTERNS, BUT CLIMATE IS ONLY ONE PIECE OF IT RIGHT, IT'S NOT THE WHOLE BIG PICTURE.

MANAGEMENT IS A PICTURE OF IT AND THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER REASONS, LIKE SUPPRESSION AND OTHER REASONS THAT CREATE THE SITUATION THAT WE'RE HAVING RIGHT NOW, BY PUTTING THAT ALL TOGETHER, THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I DO.

AS YOU KNOW, MY BACKGROUND, I'VE SPENT THE PAST LITTLE OVER 35 YEARS DEALING WITH THIS WHOLE ISSUE AND WHAT I DO IS I HAVE THAT BACKGROUND IN FORESTRY, I DO THE ARBORIST WORK, YOU KNOW, FOR A LONG TIME, AND I'VE ALSO DONE WILD LAND SINCE BASICALLY YELLOWSTONE, I'VE ALSO DONE A FULL CAREER IN THE FIRE DEPARTMENT.

YOU PUT THOSE THREE DISCIPLINES TOGETHER, IT GIVES YOU A WHOLE DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE.

>>LORENE: THE PERSPECTIVE WE NEED SO BADLY.

>>CHRIS: SO, LET'S BREAK DOWN EUROPE A LITTLE BIT.

EUROPE IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE ARE, THEY'RE BIGGER, THERE ARE MORE PEOPLE, AND YET THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME ISSUE WITH THE ENTIRE TOWNS BURNING THAT WE DO, MAINLY BECAUSE WHEN WE FIRST CAME HERE, WE DID A LOT OF LOGGING, AND THAT'S HOW WE BUILT OUR HOMES.

BACK IN THE 1600S, EUROPE BASICALLY BURNED DOWN, THEN THEY STARTED REBUILDING WITH A LOT OF STONE AND BRICK AND OTHER MATERIALS THAT WERE NON-COMBUSTIBLE, SO THEY DON'T REALLY HAVE THAT EXACT SAME ISSUE.

NOW, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT PEOPLE WON'T LEAVE THEIR WINDOWS OPEN AND, YOU KNOW, CAUSE TOWNS TO BURN.

IT'S THE ISSUES COMING TOGETHER, THEY DON'T HAVE THAT SAME DESIGN MODEL THAT WE DO, BUT THEY ARE A LITTLE BIT BEHIND NOT KNOWING HOW TO HANDLE THIS FIRE, HOW TO DEAL WITH IT.

BUT I DO GET A LOT OF ATTENTION ON WHAT I DO AND HOW I DESIGN IT FROM THE EUROPEANS.

THE EUROPEANS REALLY GET WHAT I DO AND BASICALLY, I ENGINEER A METHOD TO STOP FIRE AND JUST BASICALLY DISSOLVE IT.

THE WAY THAT WE USED TO FIGHT FIRE, IS THE WAY THAT I PUT IT ALL TOGETHER.

BUT I DO IT PRE, BEFORE THE FIRE ACTUALLY HAPPENS, THAT IS THE KEY RIGHT THERE, RIGHT?

AND I LOOK AT VERY SPECIALIZED PATHWAYS AND HOW FIRE TRAVELS AND GETS MITIGATED.

SO, FIRE IS THE ONLY PREVENTABLE, PREDICTABLE DISASTER OUT THERE AND BECAUSE OF THAT, YOU CAN DO A LOT TO HELP REDUCE IT.

SO SOME OF THE HOMES THAT I WORK ON, YOU KNOW, I CAN ACTUALLY REDUCE IT IN THAT 90 PERCENTILE WHETHER IT WILL BURN OR NOT, BUT THEN THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOUR NEIGHBOR IS GOING TO DO THE EXACT SAME THING.

IF YOU LOOK AT PROXIMITY, FENCING, VEHICLES, AND ALL THE OTHER STUFF THAT GOES IN BETWEEN HOMES AND HOW IT TRAVELS, I DO A LOT OF FIRE MODELING, I USE A LOT OF SCIENCE, LIKE VAPOR PRESSURE DEFICITS AND GRAPH THEORY.

I ALSO USE, LIKE, ENERGY RELEASE MODELS AND ALSO THE HIDDEN MODELS OF HOW THINGS WILL TRAVEL AND INTERACT.

THERE WAS A TIME WHERE, YOU KNOW, I REALIZED THAT IF I WAS GOING TO STAY ALIVE DURING A WILDFIRE, I WAS GOING TO ATTACH MYSELF TO THE MOST GRITTY, MOST DIFFICULT PERSON IN THE GROUP.

THEY WERE THE ONES WITH THE MOST EXPERIENCE AND YOU COULD JUST WATCH THESE PEOPLE WORK.

THEY KNEW HOW TO DO THINGS, AND THEY KNEW FIRE, THEY UNDERSTOOD FIRE.

SO, I PUT BOTH OF THOSE DISCIPLINES TOGETHER, EVEN THOUGH I MIGHT TAKE 12 DIFFERENT MODELING FORMS, I'LL TAKE THAT INFORMATION IN.

I DON'T DO THE INFORMATION OVERLOAD, I DO THE INFORMATION THAT I NEED, PLUS I PUT MY EXPERIENCE ALONGSIDE IT.

THAT IS THE WAY THAT I DEAL WITH IT, MAINLY BECAUSE THE FIRE DEPARTMENTS ARE DESIGNED TO ONLY HANDLE A VERY SMALL PORTION OF FIRE, AND THAT'S A PROBLEM.

MOST PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND, LIKE THE CITY OF SANTA FE ITSELF IS ONLY DESIGNED TO HANDLE TWO STRUCTURES AT ANY ONE TIME BEFORE IT HAS TO CALL OUT FOR EXTRA RESOURCES.

SO, BECAUSE OF THAT WHEN THESE TERRIBLE DAYS OF HIGH WIND AND DISASTERS, AND THEN WE HAVE 100 YEARS OF DEBT THAT WE PUT OUT THERE OF NOT DOING THE MITIGATION OR DOING IT CORRECTLY, WE'VE CREATED A SITUATION THAT WE'RE GOING TO FAIL AND WE LOSE ENTIRE TOWNS AND HOW ALL THAT INTERACTS.

>>LORENE: YOUR PHRASE, MITIGATION THAT MATTERS, YOU SAY IT'S A PREDICTIVE DESIGN SYSTEM FOR WILDFIRE RISK, FOR ACCOMMODATING WILDFIRE OR MITIGATING WILDFIRE RISK AND RESPONSE.

>>CHRIS: YES, THERE'S A STATIC COMPONENT TO IT, WHICH, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN LOOK AT MAPS AND UNDERSTAND ALL THAT DATA THAT I'M GIVEN, BUT THERE IS ALSO A DYNAMIC COMPONENT TO IT AND HOW ALL THAT ADAPTS.

AND THAT IS TOTALLY UNIQUE, AGAIN, EUROPEANS GET WHAT I DO, WHERE THERE'S ONLY A FEW PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES THAT REALLY GET THAT FULL DETAILED UNDERSTANDING.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, YOU KNOW, MORE AND MORE PEOPLE ARE COMING TO THE CONCLUSION LIKE THE WAY WE'VE BEEN DOING IT FOR MANY, MANY YEARS AND I'M SORRY THAT, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF EGOS ARE HURT.

YOU CAN DO A THOUSAND ACRES IN THE FOREST, AND IT REALLY DOESN'T AFFECT ANYTHING AND BECAUSE OF THAT UNDERSTANDING, WE ARE IN THE DISASTER ALLEY THAT WE'VE PRODUCED.

AND YOU KNOW, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE CAN PREVENT, THIS IS SOMETHING WE CAN DEAL WITH, AND WE CAN SAVE ENTIRE TOWNS.

BUT UNTIL PEOPLE GET ALL ON THE SAME PAGE, IT'S DIFFICULT TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS ACTUALLY GETS DEALT WITH CORRECTLY.

>>LORENE: YOU HAVE A STRUCTURAL APPROACH TO IT IN TERMS OF IT'S NOT JUST PUT OUT THIS FIRE, PUT OUT THAT FIRE, THERE'S A WHOLE LOT OF THINGS.

WHAT I'VE BEEN VERY INTERESTED IN AND BENEFITED FROM, BECAUSE I'VE TALKED WITH YOU, ARE THE STEPS THAT A HOMEOWNER CAN DO, THAT A COMMUNITY CAN DO, AND THAT A STATE CAN DO.

YOU KNOW, I SHOULD HAVE FIGURED THIS OUT BEFORE, BUT I'VE SPOKEN WITH YOU IN OTHER INTERVIEWS, AND YOU SAY, DO NOT HAVE YOUR WOOD PILE AGAINST YOUR HOUSE.

SO THAT MUCH I'VE DONE, IT'S 30 FEET AWAY AGAINST AN ADOBE WALL.

WOODEN DECKS, NOW, I DO LIVE IN A COMMUNITY, BUT YOU NEVER KNOW, IT'S A COMMUNITY THAT FOR FOURTH OF JULY SETS OFF ROMAN CANDLES AND BOTTLE ROCKETS AND RIFLES IN THE AIR, AND A LOT OF THAT COULD START A FIRE AND IT'S NOT A COMMUNITY WHERE I CAN GO, NO, WE SHOULDN'T DO THAT ANYMORE.

WHAT ARE THE STEPS?

THERE'S TWO WITH A HOME, ONE ZONE THAT'S JUST THE FIRST FIVE FEET, AND THEN THERE'S A SECOND ZONE, I THINK, FIVE TO 30 FEET, THEN THERE'S A MUCH FURTHER AWAY, NOT SO IMMEDIATE ZONE.

>>CHRIS: SO, WE DO START AT THE STRUCTURE FIRST, THAT'S HOW WE DESIGN THINGS.

I LOOK AT COMMUNITIES ALSO, IT'S NOT JUST PARCELS, INDIVIDUAL PARCELS, I'M LOOKING AT EVERYBODY'S PARCELS, AND NOT JUST FROM AN AERIAL VIEW, BUT I'M ALSO LOOKING AT IT FROM THE GROUND VIEW.

SO, WITH MY EXPERIENCE, I CAN SEE HOW IT'S GOING TO TRAVEL AND HOW IT'S GOING TO INTERACT.

THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT WE HAVE GOOD, AND THERE'S THINGS THAT WE DON'T HAVE SO GOOD HERE, AND YOU'VE BROUGHT UP QUITE A FEW OF THEM.

BUT IBHS, WHICH IS THE INSTITUTE OF BUSINESS AND HOME SAFETY, THEY ARE THE INSTITUTE THAT'S REALLY DONE THE RESEARCH, REALLY DONE THE SCIENCE AND ALL THAT, AND THEY HAVE ANOTHER LEVEL, AND OUR STATE IS FOLLOWING THAT RECOMMENDATION.

THEY'RE DOING A REALLY GOOD JOB OF TRYING TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.

IT TAKES A LITTLE WHILE FOR THAT ALL TO HAPPEN, BUT THEY ARE THE PEOPLE AND THE INFORMATION OF WHERE YOU NEED TO GO IN ORDER TO DO IT.

NOW, THERE'S A COUPLE DIFFERENT ISSUES HERE.

A LOT OF PEOPLE, FROM YOUR GARDENERS TO YOUR ARBORISTS, WHICH I'M A PART OF, LIKE, EVEN YOUR WILDLAND PEOPLE AND YOUR STRUCTURAL PEOPLE, THOSE PEOPLE REALLY DON'T EITHER FIGHT FIRE, OR IF THEY DO FIGHT FIRE, THEY DON'T DO STRUCTURE, AND STRUCTURAL GUYS DON'T DO MITIGATION.

SO, IT'S A DIFFICULT PROCESS TO GET EVERYBODY ON THAT SAME PAGE, AND EVEN IF YOU HAVE THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF CLASS A ROOFS, THERE MAY BE 10 DIFFERENT THINGS THAT I COULD POINT OUT TO YOU THAT WOULD SHOW YOU EXACTLY HOW THAT FIRE WOULD TRAVEL AND INTERACT WITH YOUR HOME AND HOW THAT WOULD AFFECT THE NEIGHBOR'S HOME AND ALL THAT STUFF.

THERE IS A LOT TO IT, SO WE USUALLY START OFF AT THE HOME.

I DO HAVE CONTRACTORS NOW THAT WORK FOR ME THAT JUST DO THE HOME WARNING ALL THE WAY DOWN TO GOATS, AND WE HAVE SMOKE ALARM SYSTEMS THAT WILL DEAL WITH THE SMOKE FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE OR WHEN TO ALERT FROM THE OUTSIDE, AND THEN WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT SET UP THE SPRINKLER SYSTEMS, SO IT'S NOT JUST MITIGATION, WE DO THE WHOLE PACKAGE.

AND UNLIKE A LOT OF OTHER FOLKS OUT THERE THAT HAVE JUST DEVELOPED AI MODELING PROGRAMS, THAT IS NOT REALLY THAT HELPFUL, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GO OUT THERE AND SAY, WELL, I HAVE AN AI MODELING PROGRAM TO TELL ME HOW TO PUT OUT THIS FOREST FIRE, THAT'S A GOOD WAY TO GET HURT.

AND SO WE PUT IT ALL TOGETHER IN ORDER TO MAKE IT HAPPEN AND HOW TO DISRUPT THAT FIRE AND HOW TO INTERACT WITH IT ON THE LEVEL THAT THE FIRE DEPARTMENTS CAN ACTUALLY MITIGATE THROUGH IT, IT'S ALREADY PRE-DONE FOR THEM, SO THEY CAN BE SUCCESSFUL.

WE WANT TO MAINTAIN THESE HOMES, AND THE WEIRD PART OF THAT IS IT'S VERY HARD TO GET SOMEBODY TO CLEAN OUT THEIR GUTTERS, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IF I DEVELOP SOME SORT OF SATELLITE INTERACTIVE APP ON MY PHONE, I'LL GET TONS OF GRANT MONEY FOR THAT, BUT I WON'T GET ANYTHING FOR GETTING SOCIAL CRED OF MAKING PEOPLE ACTUALLY DO WHAT WILL STOP THE FOREST FIRE FROM TAKING THEIR STRUCTURE OUT AND IT'S DIFFICULT TO GET EVERYBODY ON THAT SAME PAGE, BUT THAT'S ANOTHER PART OF WHAT WE DO, IS SOCIAL INTERACTION TO GET COMMUNITIES TO ACTUALLY WORK TOGETHER.

MAINLY BECAUSE INSURANCE COMPANIES DRIVE THIS, PEOPLE REALLY THINK THAT THEY'RE GOING TO GET A DISCOUNT, I THINK WE'RE WAY BEYOND THE DISCOUNT LEVEL.

WHETHER THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE INSURANCE OR NOT IS THE WAY IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

AND EVEN THOUGH THE STATE HAS A FAIR PLAN, THAT'S VERY HELPFUL, IT'S NOT ALWAYS 100% THE ANSWER, IN FACT, IT COULD CAUSE OTHER ISSUES FURTHER DOWN.

>>LORENE: WE'RE SPEAKING TODAY WITH CHRIS SCHAUM ABOUT WILDFIRE MITIGATION AND MINIMIZING THE RISK AND PROTECTING OURSELVES.

YOU MENTIONED INSURANCE; INSURANCE HAS CHANGED, IT'S NOT JUST I'VE GOT INSURANCE ON A $90,000 HOUSE, AND IF IT BURNS DOWN, THEY'RE GOING TO BUILD ME ANOTHER $90,000 HOUSE.

NO, LOOK WHAT HAPPENED IN THE PACIFIC PALISADES WITH ALL OF THOSE HOMES AT ONCE AND ONLY A FEW OF THEM ARE BEING REBUILT IN THE SAME PLACE, AND IT COSTS A HECK OF A LOT MORE THAN 90,000 NOW.

ANOTHER ISSUE ABOUT CALIFORNIA IS THAT THEY'RE NOT WRITING NEW INSURANCE POLICIES FOR FIRE IN CERTAIN AREAS, AND THEY'RE NOT ISSUING RENEWALS FOR PEOPLE WHO ALWAYS HAD INSURANCE WITH THEM.

NOW THE RISK IS TOO GREAT FOR THE INSURANCE COMPANY, IT'S VERY HARD FOR PEOPLE, A HOMEOWNER OR A COMMUNITY TO GET THEIR HEADS AROUND THAT.

>>CHRIS: YEAH, SO YOU'RE BRINGING UP AN EXCELLENT POINT.

WHEN IT COMES TO INSURANCE, WHAT INSURANCE NEEDS AND HOW ALL THAT GETS WORKED OUT.

SO, YOU KNOW, THE CARROT OUT THERE IS PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE EVEN IF THEY HAVE INSURANCE THAT THERE'S REALLY NO WAY TO REBUILD RIGHT AWAY AND EVEN IF YOU GET PAID A LOT PER SQUARE FOOT, WAIT TILL AFTER A FIRE, GOOD LUCK GETTING A CONTRACTOR THAT WILL EVEN TOUCH THAT HOME FOR EVEN $1,500 A SQUARE FOOT.

IT'S GOING TO BE A VERY DIFFICULT PROCESS.

AND THEN ALL THE STUFF THAT BURNED IS TOXIC AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S STUFF THAT WE WEAR VERY SPECIALIZED EQUIPMENT IN, RIGHT, FROM SCBAS, THE BUNKER GEAR, AND ALL THAT, IT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU WOULD REALLY WANT TO RAISE YOUR CHILDREN IN AFTERWARDS.

SO, IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO TRYING TO PROTECT THOSE STRUCTURES AND WORK OUT WITH THE COMMUNITY ON HOW ALL THAT INTERACTS.

I DEAL A LOT WITH LIKE RISK ASSESSMENT FOLKS IN THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY, BUT ACTUARIES ARE LIKE THE SMART PEOPLE OF THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY, THEY GET IT, BUT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR STATISTICAL INFORMATION THAT WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO GIVE THEM IN ORDER TO WORK THROUGH ALL THIS.

AND THEN WE REALLY NEED TO EMPOWER THE HOMEOWNERS, WE REALLY NEED TO MAKE THE HOMEOWNERS REALIZE THAT THEY HAVE TO DO THEIR PART ALSO AND HOW TO GET THEM TO DO THAT AS NOT JUST INDIVIDUALS, BUT AS A COMMUNITY AND MAKE ALL THAT WORK, IT DOES WORK IN SOME PLACES, THERE ARE PLACES WHERE EVERYTHING ELSE OUT THERE IS BURNT DOWN TO A CRISP, AND YET THERE ARE CERTAIN PLACES THAT HAVE SURVIVED IT AND THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I LOOK AT AND HOW ALL THAT INTERACTS.

I DO SPECIALTY IN STRUCTURE TO STRUCTURE.

THERE WAS A TIME NOT TOO LONG AGO THAT INSURANCE COMPANIES WOULD GO, WELL, WE DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO KNOW IF ONE STRUCTURE GOES UP, HOW THAT'S GOING TO AFFECT THE OTHER STRUCTURE, I SAID, WELL, YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN HIGHLY TRAINED IN THIS, RIGHT?

LIKE YOU WOULD DRIVE TO THESE AREAS, AND I CAN POINT OUT EXACTLY WHICH STRUCTURE WAS GOING TO GO UP AND HOW IT WAS GOING TO INTERACT WITH THE OTHER ONES.

SO THAT FIRE MODELING IS STARTING TO COME OUT NOW, BUT AGAIN, IT'S MODELING, YOU NEED THE EXPERIENCE IN ORDER TO HELP NAVIGATE THAT.

THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF INFORMATION OUT THERE FROM FIREWISE PROGRAMS AND OTHER THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN PARTIALLY HELPFUL, BUT IT'S NOT THE WHOLE PICTURE AND THAT'S WHERE WE'VE GONE WRONG, THAT'S WHERE WE LOSE COMMUNITIES.

ONE THING I'D REALLY LIKE TO GO OVER IS LOS ANGELES.

LOS ANGELES HAS MORE CAMERAS THAN ANYBODY ELSE BY FAR, THEY HAVE THE HIGHEST PAID, MOST EXPERIENCED FIRE DEPARTMENT FROM THE CITY, THE COUNTY, AND THE STATE, AND YET THEY STILL BURN AND PEOPLE DON'T GET THAT.

WHY IS IT THAT SUCH LOSS WHEN MORE MONEY THAN GOD HAS TO FIGHT THESE FIRES WITH ALL THE EQUIPMENT, WITH ALL THE KNOWLEDGE, WITH ALL THE PEOPLE, AND IT'S STILL A HUGE LOSS, THAT'S WHERE I COME IN.

AND WHAT I DO KIND OF PREDICTS THE FIRE AND PREVENTS THE FIRE AND IT DOESN'T ALLOW THE FIRE TO GET OUT OF HAND AND LOSE THESE ENTIRE TOWNS.

ONCE YOU'VE LOST A TOWN, YOU MAY ONLY HAVE A THIRD OF IT COME BACK AT BEST.

>>LORENE: WHAT IS THE WILDFIRE ECONOMY PLATFORM?

>>CHRIS: SO, WE LOOK AT OVERALL IF YOU LOSE AN ENTIRE TOWN, WHAT KIND OF LOSS THAT REALLY TRULY IS.

MY MAIN THING THAT I WORK ON IS SAVING PROPERTY BUT ALSO SAVING LIVES, WE ALSO WANT TO EMPOWER PEOPLE SO THEY'RE NOT VICTIMS TO ALL THIS.

WE CAN, YOU KNOW, FIRE IS IN OUR REGIME, LIKE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BURN HERE AND IT'S SUPPOSED TO BURN ON A CONSISTENT BASIS AND CLEAN UP THE FOREST AND CLEAN UP THE AREAS AND KNOWING HOW TO DO THAT CORRECTLY HAS KIND OF BEEN LOST OVER THE YEARS.

HOW MUCH WE ACTUALLY NEED TO DO, MAINLY BECAUSE A LOT OF THESE HOMES ARE BUILT OUT OF FRAME AND HOW THAT LUMBER INTERACTS WITH THE FIRE AND WHAT IT WILL TOLERATE AND WHAT IT WON'T.

LIKE YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT YOUR DECK, WHAT CAN WE DO WITH THAT DECK.

DO WE HAVE TO TOTALLY RETROFIT IT OR IS THERE SOMETHING ELSE THAT WE CAN DO AND THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS THAT WE CAN DO IN ORDER TO HELP PROTECT IT.

>>LORENE: ADOBE HOUSES.

>>CHRIS: WE HAVE LOTS OF THEM HERE.

>>LORENE: ARE THEY LESS FLAMMABLE?

>>CHRIS: ABSOLUTELY.

THEY'RE LESS FLAMMABLE, BUT AGAIN, IT'S THOSE INTRUSION POINTS THAT MOST PEOPLE AREN'T PAYING ATTENTION TO.

SO YES, WE HAVE LOTS OF STUFF LEANING UP AGAINST OUR STRUCTURES, I ALSO LOOK AT ENERGY RELEASE MODELS OF HOW MUCH A JUNIPER OR A PINION WILL RELEASE INTO A WINDOW.

MAYBE WE CAN PUT A FILM ON A WINDOW OR MAYBE WE CAN PUT SHUTTERS ON A WINDOW, WE CAN PROTECT IT IN CERTAIN WAYS IF WE ARE NOT ABLE TO REMOVE VEGETATION.

THE PROBLEM IS MOST PEOPLE ARE JUST LOOKING AT VEGETATION AS THE ISSUE AND BECAUSE OF THAT IT'S NOT THAT HELPFUL.

VEGETATION ARRANGEMENT IS IMPORTANT BUT NOT THE VEGETATION ALWAYS AND HOW MUCH THAT VEGETATION WILL PUT AS FAR AS ENERGY INTO THE STRUCTURES ITSELF, SO WHEN YOU ASK ABOUT STUCCO, YES, IT'S REALLY FIRE RESILIENT AND IT'S GREAT THAT WE HAVE IT, BUT IT DOESN'T PROTECT US 100%.

AND AGAIN, SOMEBODY LEAVES THEIR WINDOW OPEN, AND THE EMBERS COME IN, WELL, THAT'S THAT.

SO, WE HAVE TO HAVE IT DESIGNED IN SUCH A WAY WHERE, LIKE PEOPLE WEARING THEIR SEATBELTS, THEY KNOW HOW TO DO THIS PROPERLY AND IT'S NOT A DIFFICULT THING THAT WE LIVE WITH FIRE AND WE LIVE WITH IT IN A SAFE WAY.

>>LORENE: SO FOR THE HOMEOWNER, WHERE CAN THEY GET INFORMATION IN THE VERY STEPS, EVEN THOUGH SOME OF THEM MAY TAKE SEVERAL YEARS, SEVERAL STEPS IN A ROW IN THE RIGHT ORDER AT THE RIGHT TIME, WHERE CAN THEY FIND THAT INFORMATION, A HOMEOWNER WHO THINKS, WOW, I'D LIKE TO BE PREPARED, I'D LIKE TO CUT BACK MY RISK, WHERE CAN A HOMEOWNER, NOT A COMMUNITY, FIND INFORMATION ABOUT PRESERVING THEIR HOME?

>>CHRIS: SO THE EASIEST WAY IS TO GO TO IBHS AND JUST GO ONLINE.

>>LORENE: IBHS.COM >>CHRIS: AND THEY'LL SHOW YOU EXACTLY WHAT YOU NEED TO DO AROUND YOUR STRUCTURE AND THAT'S, AGAIN, A PART OF IT.

IT'S NOT THE WHOLE ANSWER TO THE WHOLE PROBLEM, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IF EVERYBODY STARTED UNDERSTANDING WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE CORRECTLY, NOT THE OLD, WELL, I'VE NEVER SEEN IT HAPPEN HERE OR MY NEIGHBOR DIDN'T DO IT, SO I DON'T HAVE TO DO IT.

I MEAN, I HEAR ALL THESE EXCUSES OF WHY WE DON'T HAVE TO DO IT, BUT WHEN WE START LOSING INSURANCE AND WE REALLY NEED INSURANCE, IF WE WANT TO, YOU KNOW, GET LOANS AND A LOT OF OTHER THINGS, YOU KNOW, FROM BONDING WITH GOVERNMENTS AND IT AFFECTS ALL OF US, RIGHT?

AND WHAT I WORK TOWARDS IS TRYING TO KEEP WHAT THEY CALL GLOBAL INSURANCE HAPPY, BECAUSE GLOBAL INSURANCE DRIVES THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY, AND I HAVE A GOOD CONNECTION WITH THOSE FOLKS ALSO AND HOW ALL THAT INTERACTS.

THEY'RE THE ONES THAT GO UP BY 12% SOMETIMES DEPENDING ON THE YEAR, JUST FROM NATURAL DISASTERS ALL AROUND THE WORLD.

THEY CAN'T SUSTAIN IT, SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE, SO THIS IS HOW WE DO IT AND HOW WE CAN DO IT CORRECTLY IN ORDER TO PREVENT IT.

>>LORENE: WELL, I KNOW THAT PEOPLE ARE ANXIOUS AS THEY LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN EUROPE, FOR EXAMPLE, IN SPAIN AND FRANCE.

THEN THEY THINK THE STUMBLING BLOCK IS IT CAN'T HAPPEN HERE, BUT IT CAN HAPPEN HERE.

AND IT'S NOT A MATTER OF IF, IT'S A MATTER OF WHEN.

SO WHAT I'M SO GRATEFUL TO YOU IS BRINGING UP THESE ISSUES BECAUSE PEOPLE WOULD RATHER NOT THINK ABOUT IT AND THERE ARE STEPS YOU CAN TAKE, AND YOU'VE TOLD THEM WHERE THEY CAN FIND THEM, TO AT LEAST MITIGATE SOME OF THE RISK AND PROTECT YOURSELF AND THAT FEELS REALLY GOOD.

DO YOU HAVE A LAST WORD, JUST A ONE-MINUTE URGING OF WHAT PEOPLE CAN DO BESIDES GOING TO IBHS.

>>CHRIS: WORK ON THAT ZONE ZERO.

ZONE ZERO WORKS FROM THE STRUCTURE OUT TO ABOUT FIVE FEET.

DON'T TRY TO TAKE IT ALL ON AS A GIANT PROJECT, TRY TO BREAK IT DOWN INTO MUCH SMALLER PROJECTS.

IF WE COULD ALL DO THAT ZONE ZERO, THAT WOULD REALLY, REALLY HELP OUT NOT JUST INDIVIDUAL STRUCTURES BUT COMMUNITIES TOGETHER.

>>LORENE: YES, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, BUT THOSE ARE GRANDMA'S ROSES UP AGAINST THE HOUSE AND ALL THAT, YOU JUST HAVE TO, YOU CAN TRANSPLANT THEM TEN FEET AWAY, MAKE A LITTLE ROSE GARDEN OVER THERE.

>>CHRIS: THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS WE CAN DO, AND IT'S NOT JUST CUT EVERY TREE AND REMOVE 100% VEGETATION.

THERE ARE NO MOATS BEING BUILT AROUND THE HOMES, WE CAN DO THIS, AND WE CAN DO IT TOGETHER, AND WE CAN HELP EACH OTHER OUT.

AND WE CAN ALSO KEEP INSURANCE AND SURVIVE THESE FIRES AND KEEP OUR COMMUNITY TOGETHER.

ONCE YOU SEE THE BIG PICTURE, THEN EVERYBODY'S FAIRLY HAPPY.

>>LORENE: WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

OUR GUEST TODAY IS CHRIS SCHUAM, WHO IS, AMONG OTHER THINGS, A WILDLIFE MITIGATOR, A WILDFIRE MITIGATOR AND EDUCATOR.

I LEARN SO MUCH FROM THESE DISCUSSIONS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, FIRE HAS SUCH A MYSTERY ABOUT IT AND SUCH AN INEVITABILITY ABOUT IT, PEOPLE JUST GO, OH MY LORD.

BUT YOU'VE SHOWN US MANY WAYS THAT WE CAN PROTECT OURSELVES AND REDUCE OUR RISK.

THANK YOU SO MUCH, CHRIS SCHAUM.

>>CHRIS: ANYTIME, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>>LORENE: YOU BET AND I'M LORENE MILLS.

I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU, OUR AUDIENCE, FOR BEING WITH US TODAY ON A VERY IMPORTANT EDITION OF REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM THE HEALY FOUNDATION, TAOS, NM.

♪ MUSIC