>>> A MAKE OR BREAK MOMENT FOR NIKKI HALEY IN NEW HAMPSHIRE.

THIS WEEK ON "FIRING LINE."

>> IOWA, THANK YOU.

WE LOVE YOU ALL.

>> AFTER DONALD TRUMP'S DECISIVE WIN IN THE IOWA CAUCUSES, ALL EYES ARE ON THE GRANITE STATE.

THE FIRST IN THE NATION PRIMARY, WITH A HISTORY OF NOTABLE UPSETS.

>> NEW HAMPSHIRE TONIGHT HAS MADE BILL CLINTON THE COMEBACK KID.

>> FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA GOVERNOR NIKKI HALEY IS IN A HEAD-TO-HEAD RACE WITH THE FORMER PRESIDENT.

HALEY PERFORMS WELL WITH MODERATES AND INDEPENDENTS, WHO CAN VOTE IN NEW HAMPSHIRE'S GOP PRIMARY.

>> THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, NIKKI HALEY.

>> GOVERNOR CHRIS SUNUNU, IS HER BIGGEST AND MOST IMPORTANT SUPPORTER.

>> SHE'S A WINNER AND SHE CAN GET MORE WINNERS AND BUILD MORE WINNERS.

TRUMP IS A LOSER.

>> Reporter: WITH THE BATTLE LINES DRAWN.

>> NIKKI HALEY IS A DISASTER.

>> CHAOS FOLLOWERS HIM.

AND AS VOTERS PLAN TO CAST THEIR BALLOTS, WHAT DOES NEW HAMPSHIRE GOVERNOR CHRIS SUNUNU SAY NOW.

>>> "FIRING LINE" IS MADE BOBBLE BY ROBERT GRENIER, THE FAIR WEATHER FOUNDATION, THE ASTINS FAMILY FOUNDATION, THE BETH AND -- CHARLES R. SCHWAB, AND BY THE ROSALIND P. WALTER FOUNDATION, ROGER AND SUSAN HERRING TO, AND BLAIR EFRON, AL AND KATHY HUBBARD.

CORPORATE FUNDING IS PROVIDED BY STEVENS INK.

>> GOVERNOR CHRIS SUNUNU, WELCOME TO "FIRING LINE."

>> THIS IS GREAT.

I'M VERY EXCITED.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON.

AFTER THIS WEEK'S DECISIVE WIN BY DONALD TRUMP IN IOWA, ALL EYES ARE ON YOUR STATE IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, WHERE YOU HAVE ENDORSED GOVERNOR NIKKI HALEY.

WHAT ARE THE STAKES OF NEW HAMPSHIRE?

>> THE STAKES ARE VERY HIGH FOR DONALD TRUMP.

THE FIRST FEW STATES, HE'S SAID HE'S GOING TO WIN THEM, HANDS DOWN AND RUN AWAY WITH IT.

HE DID WELL IN IOWA, AS WAS EXPECTED.

BUT NIKKI DID WELL.

NO ONE EXPECTED NIKKI TO HAVE SUCH A STRONG FINISH.

2% TO 20%, ALMOST BEAT DeSANTIS FOR SECOND PLACE, WHEN DeSANTIS HAD PUT EVERY DOLLAR, EVERY PERSON, EVERYTHING HE HAD INTO IOWA.

IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, RIGHT NOW WE EFFECTIVELY HAVE A ONE-ON-ONE RACE.

IT IS HALEY VERSUS TRUMP.

THAT'S AN AMAZING OPPORTUNITY.

I ALWAYS WANTED TO GET IT TO HALEY VERSUS TRUMP BY SUPER TUESDAY.

NOW WE HAVE HALEY VERSUS TRUMP -- THE GLIDE PATH IS DESIGNED FOR NIKKI HALEY.

SHE GOES FROM HERE, SHE DOES VERY, VERY WELL.

SHE'S GOING TO END UP IN SECOND PLACE, MAY END UPBEATING TRUMP, WHICH COULD HAPPEN.

THEN SHE GOES TO SOUTH CAROLINA, A STATE SHE HAS WON MULTIPLE TIMES.

AND WHEN IT'S JUST A ONE-ON-ONE RACE, YOU'RE NOT ASKING THE VOTER TO SIFT OUT TEN DIFFERENT CANDIDATES LIKE 2016.

IT'S ONE ON ONE.

IT'S A CLEAR CHOICE.

AND IN SOUTH CAROLINA, THEY KNOW THE ALTERNATIVE, AND IT LOOKS REALLY GOOD WITH NIKKI HALEY.

>> IT SOUNDED TO ME LIKE YOU WERE LOWERING EXPECTATIONS IN TERMS OF WHAT WE SHOULD EXPECT IN TERMS OF HER FINISH HERE.

A SECOND PLACE FINISH WOULD BE A WIN.

ISN'T A WIN A WIN?

>> NO ONE EVER EXPECTED NIKKI HALEY TO WIN ANY OF THESE EARLY STATES.

NO POLLS HAVE SAID SHE'S GOING TO WIN.

HER TEAM HAS NEVER SAID, WE'VE NEVER SAID SHE'S DEFINITELY GOING TO WIN.

>> YOU THINK A SECOND PLACE FINISH IS A WIN FOR HER?

>> OF COURSE.

THERE WERE 14 CANDIDATES IN THIS RACE.

FOR ME, IT'S ABOUT GETTING THROUGH THE FIRST THREE STATES WITH A ONE ON ONE.

IT'S HAPPENING SOONER THAN LATER -- >> THE WIN OF THE FIELD?

>> THAT'S A HUGE WIN.

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT AMERICA WAS ASKING.

>> SO RON DeSANTIS IS A NONFACTOR IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING?

>> COMPLETELY, YES.

>> UNAFFILIATED VOTERS ARE THE LARGEST SHARE OF VOTERS IN NEW HAMPSHIRE.

HOW DOES THIS IMPACT NIKKI HALEY'S CHANCES?

>> THE MORE VOTERS, WHETHER THEY'RE REPUBLICAN OR UNDECLARED, THE MORE VOTERS THAT TURN OUT, THE MORE IT DOESN'T FAVOR THE INCUMBENT, WHICH IS DONALD TRUMP.

HE'S EFFECTIVELY THE INCUMBENT.

THE HIGHER VOTER TURNOUT WE CAN GET, THE BETTER CHANCE WE CAN GET THOSE ARE THE VOTERS THAT ARE NEW VOTERS, MORE LIKELY TO BE NEW VOTERS, WHO SAY, WE WANT CHANGE.

WE WANT SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

AND NEW HAMPSHIRE HAS A TRADITION OF DOING THAT, SAYING, GIVE US THE NEXT GENERATION OF LEADERSHIP, NOT THE SAME OLD THING.

AND THAT'S WHAT TRUMP IS, THE SAME OLD THING.

>> COMPARED TO 2016, IOWA HAD LOW TURNOUT, EVEN LOWER THAN THE WEATHER COULD ACCOUNT FOR.

>> SURE.

>> DOES THAT GIVE YOU PAUSE ABOUT THE DEGREE OF ENTHUSIASM THIS TIME AROUND?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WHEN YOU ASK THOSE TRUMP VOTERS OR A LOT OF VOTERS, WHO ARE YOU GOING TO VOTE FOR?

I GUESS TRUMP'S GOING TO WIN ANYWAY.

THERE'S FOLKS THAT SAY, I DON'T LIKE TRUMP, BUT HE'S GOING TO WIN ANYWAY.

I WON'T GO VOTE.

YOU HAVE A LOT OF THAT APATHY ABOVE THE COLD WEATHER ISSUE IN IOWA.

VERY CONCERNED ABOUT IT HERE.

THAT'S WHY WHEN YOU DO THE RETAIL CAMPAIGN -- NIKKI IN LITTLETON, WHITEFIELD, THE NORTH PART OF THE STATE.

THAT GALVANIZES A NEW TURN OUT THE VOTE OPPORTUNITY THERE.

>> DEMOGRAPHICALLY POLLS SUGGEST NIKKI SHOULD DO BETTER IN NEW HAMPSHIRE THAN IOWA -- >> AND SHE WILL.

>> HIGHER INCOME STATE, HIGHER EDUCATED STATE.

THESE ARE GROUPS SHE PERFORMS WELL WITH.

WHAT IS THE MESSAGE HALEY SHOULD USE TO NEW HAMPSHIRE'S TRUMP SUNUNU VOTERS?

>> I WOULD SAY GOING AFTER A TRUMP VOTER IS GREAT BECAUSE THAT'S EFFECTIVELY TWO VOTES.

YOU'RE TAKING ONE FROM HIM AND ADDING ONE TO YOURSELF.

WHEN IT'S A BINARY RACE, THAT'S THE OPPORTUNITY YOU HAVE.

THE DISCUSSION IS DON'T ASSUME TRUMP IS GOING TO RUN AWAY WITH THIS.

THEY HAVEN'T LOOKED AT A LOT OF POLICY.

THEY JUST SAID, I GUESS HE'S GOING TO WIN.

WHEN THEY SHATTER THAT PRESUMPTION, SHOW THIS REALLY IS A HORSE RACE AT THIS POINT, PEOPLE GO, WAIT, AND THEY TAKE THE LAST WEEK, COME TO THE TOWN HALLS, ENGAGE WITH HER ON HER RETAIL STOPS.

THAT'S THE OPPORTUNITY TO BRING THOSE TRUMP VOTERS ACROSS.

THAT HARD CORE 35% THAT ARE ABSOLUTE ZEALOTS, LIKE A CULT OR SOMETHING, THEY ARE NOT MOVING.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, THOUGH, THE ONES THAT, AGAIN, ARE JUST, KIND OF, IN IT BECAUSE I GUESS HE'S GOING TO WIN, THOSE ARE THE ONES YOU WANT TO ENGAGE A LITTLE MORE IN NEW HAMPSHIRE.

>> DO YOU THINK THAT 30% OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS LIKE A CULT?

>> NO, NO.

LOOK, THERE ARE -- THERE'S ABOUT 30, 35% OF THE TRUMP VOTER THAT IS JUST NOT GOING TO BE MOVED.

THAT'S IT.

THEY'RE JUST NOT GOING TO BE MOVED.

VERY LITTLE YOU CAN SAY TO THEM TO GET THEM OFF THE BAND WAGON.

>> HOW MUCH IS NEW HAMPSHIRE LIKE AN UPSET?

HOW MUCH DOES THE HISTORY OF A NEW HAMPSHIRE PRIMARY THAT DELIVERED BILL CLINTON THE COMEBACK KID, THAT MADE JOHN McCAIN RELEVANT IN 2000 AGAIN -- >> H.W.

BUSH IN FACT IN '88.

McCAIN HAD A HUGE UPSET WIN.

>> HOW MUCH IS THAT BAKED IN THE DNA OF NEW HAMPSHIRE PRIMARY VOTERS?

>> WE LIKE.

THAT WE LIKE THE UNDERDOG.

WE LIKE CANDIDATES THAT ARE SCRAPPY AND HONEST AND CONNECT WITH US ON A REAL LEVEL.

DON'T STAND ON A STAGE AND TELL US WHAT WE WANT TO HEAR.

GET IN YOUR FANCY PLANE AND GO BACK TO THE COUNTRY CLUB.

THAT'S THE TRUMP THING RIGHT NOW.

>> WE'VE SEEN VARIOUS APPROACHES TO DONALD TRUMP.

YOU'VE SEEN VIVEK RAMASWAMY FLATTER HIM ENDLESSLY.

YOU SAW CHRIS CHRISTIE HERE IN NEW HAMPSHIRE AGGRESSIVELY GO AFTER HIS LAWLESSNESS -- >> CHRIS TOOK THE NUCLEAR OPTION ON TRUMP.

NOT THAT HE WAS WRONG, BUT, MAN, IT WAS -- IT WAS TOUGH.

>> WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO RUN IN NEW HAMPSHIRE IF YOU'RE GOING TO -- WHAT IS THE BEST WAY FOR A REPUBLICAN TO CHALLENGE DONALD TRUMP IN NEW HAMPSHIRE?

>> I THINK I HONESTLY BELIEVE THE WAY NIKKI IS DOING IS THE RIGHT WAY.

>> SEEMS LIKE SHE'S TAKING THE GOLDILOCKS APPROACH.

SHE'S NOT TAKING THE NUCLEAR OPTION.

>> SHE CALLED HIM ON JANUARY 6th.

SHE CALLED HIM ON ELECTION DENIAL.

SHE'S CALLED HIM ON FAILED POLICIES.

>> SHE DID GO BACK ON THE JANUARY 6th THOUGH.

>> IN THE LAST DEBATE, AGAIN, SHE CALLED HIM OUT ON IT.

AGAIN, SHE'S SPENDING THE TIME ON WHAT SHE'S GOING TO DELIVER.

FOR A NEW HAMPSHIRE VOTER, THAT'S IMPORTANT.

WE HAVE A LOT OF VOTER ENGAGEMENT HERE.

>> TRUMP'S SUPPRESSION OF NIKKI HALEY IS TO DEMEAN HER -- >> HE DOES THAT TO EVERYBODY.

>> HE DOES IT TO EVERYBODY.

THERE'S A SPECIAL FLAVOR, THOUGH, WITH NIKKI.

IT'S BIRD BRAIN.

IT'S THAT SHE'S NOT TOUGH ENOUGH.

IT FEELS SEXIST.

DO YOU THINK IT'S SEXIST?

>> I WOULD SAY HE HAS A HISTORY OF THAT SO IT SHOULDN'T SURPRISE ANYBODY, RIGHT?

OBVIOUSLY HE HAS A HISTORY OF DEMEANING WOMEN.

I'M NOT GOING TO ANSWER THAT.

I WOULD SAY NIKKI IS THE ONLY ONE -- >> YOU THINK HE'S SEXIST?

>> I THINK HE HAS A HISTORY OF MAKING SEXIST REMARKS.

YEAH, IT'S DEMEANING.

>> ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL, HERE WITH YOUR ELECTORATE, DO POLICY ARGUMENTS AGAINST TRUMP MATTER?

YOU ALL HAVE CONSTANTLY POINTED OUT THAT HE PROMISED A BORDER WALL AND HE DIDN'T DELIVER IT.

HE PROMISED TO REVIVE THE MANUFACTURING SECTOR, AND IT SHRUNK ON HIS WATCH.

HE PROMISED TO ELIMINATE THE FEDERAL DEBT, AND IT GREW BY 7 TRILLION ALMOST MORE DOLLARS ON HIS WATCH.

DO NEW HAMPSHIRE REPUBLICANS CONSIDER THESE BROKEN PROMISES?

>> THEY DO.

THEY DO.

MORE THAN ANYWHERE ELSE TO BE SURE.

AGAIN, WE GET INTO A LOT OF THE NITTY-GRITTY DETAILS.

I CAN'T SPEAK TO OTHER STATES, BUT IT DEFTLY MATTERS HERE.

YOU'VE GOT TO KNOW YOUR STUFF.

>> YOU'VE SAID IN THE PAST THAT YOU AREN'T SUPPORTING DONALD TRUMP.

YOU'RE SUPPORTING NIKKI HALEY BECAUSE OF THE ELECTABILITY ARGUMENT.

>> THAT'S A PIECE OF IT.

>> WHAT'S THE REST OF THE ARGUMENT?

>> SO, LET'S TALK ABOUT ELECTABILITY.

TRUMP'S -- WHEN I TALK ABOUT ELECTABILITY, IT ISN'T JUST TRUMP WINNING OR LOSING.

IT'S HOW HE AFFECTS THE REST OF THE TICKET.

WITH NIKKI HALEY, WE WIN SENATE SEATS BACK.

WE WIN GOVERNORSHIPS.

WE WIN SCHOOL BOARD SEATS.

WE WIN ALL THESE SEATS THAT WE HAVE LOST THAT WE SHOULD HAVE WON OVER THE PAST SIX YEARS.

I'M SO TIRED OF LOSING WITH THIS GUY.

HE'S A LOSER.

I WANT A WINNER.

ELECTABILITY ISN'T JUST WINNING THE SEAT.

TRUMP COULD POTENTIALLY MAYBE SQUEAK OUT A WIN, BUT HE'D HAVE NO ABILITY TO DO ANYTHING HE'S TALKING ABOUT, RIGHT?

SO, WHAT'S THE POINT THERE?

LET'S ELECT SOMEONE WE KNOW WILL WIN AND CARRY ALL THESE OTHER REPUBLICAN INITIATIVES ALONG THE WAY.

THAT'S HOW YOU GET STUFF DONE.

>> LET'S COMPARE A HYPOTHETICAL, PRESIDENT HALEY VERSUS PRESIDENT TRUMP.

WHAT WOULD BE THE OUTCOME OF A PRESIDENT NIKKI HALEY ON IMMIGRATION AND THE BORDER VERSUS A SECOND TRUMP PRESIDENCY?

>> WELL, SHE CAN ACTUALLY BUILD THE WALL AND SECURE IT.

YOU HAVE TO SECURE THE BORDER.

>> WHY CAN SHE DO IT AND TRUMP COULDN'T?

>> BECAUSE SHE HAS A RECORD -- AS A GOVERNOR, SHE HAS A RECORD OF KNOWING HOW TO WORK WITH A LEGISLATURE, EVEN WHEN THEY OPPOSED HER.

TRUMP, ONE OF HIS ULTIMATE FLAWS WAS THAT HE THOUGHT YOU COULD RUN THE GOVERNMENT LIKE A BUSINESS.

IT SOUNDS GOOD, BUT IT'S PUBLIC MONEY, CHECKS AND BALANCES, CONGRESS AND LEGISLATURE.

EVEN WHEN HE HAD REPUBLICANS IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE, HE COULDN'T GET STUFF DONE.

HE'S NOT GOING TO HAVE LIKELY THE SENATE BACK, RIGHT?

SO, YOU THINK DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO WORK WITH HIM TO DO ANYTHING?

GOD NO.

THAT'S WHY HE SAID, I'LL BE A DICTATOR FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS OR WHATEVER IT IS.

THAT STUFF GETS A LITTLE SCARY BECAUSE WHAT HE'S SAYING IS, BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT THE RIGHT WAY, BECAUSE I'M NOT STRONG ENOUGH TO DO IT THE RIGHT WAY, I'LL TRY TO BULLDOZE MY WAY THROUGH.

>> NIKKI HAS A WAY OF WORKING IN THE PUBLIC SPHERE AND NEGOTIATING THIS STUFF.

THAT'S THE KEY TO ALL OF IT.

>> NIKKI HALEY SAYS CONTINUING SUPPORT FOR UKRAINE IS IMPERATIVE.

THIS PUTS HER STANCE AT ODDS WITH DONALD TRUMP, WHO REFUSES TO SEND AID TO UKRAINE.

HOW IS THE FUTURE OF UKRAINE UNDER PRESIDENT HALEY VERSUS A PRESIDENT TRUMP?

>> NIKKI HALEY HAS A BETTER UNDERSTANDING AND EXPERTISE OF INTERNATIONAL ISSUES THAN ALL OF THESE CANDIDATES, THAN ANY CANDIDATE, ALL THE CANDIDATES.

>> EVEN DONALD TRUMP, WHO HAS BEEN PRESIDENT.

>> OH, ABSOLUTELY.

TRUMP SHOWED UP AT THE MEETINGS TAKING THE POLICIES OF SECRETARY OF STATE MIKE POMPEO AND U.N.

AMBASSADOR NIKKI HALEY.

THEY'RE THE ONES THAT UNDERSTAND THESE DETAILS.

TRUMP CALLS PUTIN HIS FRIEND AND DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THE NUANCES OF THE ISSUES OVERSEAS.

HE NEGOTIATES OVERSEAS AS IF THEY'RE AMERICANS HE'S NEGOTIATING WITH.

AND IT'S A VERY CULTURALLY DIFFERENT THING.

AGAIN, I THINK HER EXPERIENCE THERE, HER WILLINGNESS TO PUT AMERICA FIRST AND MAKE SURE THAT, AS SHE DID IN THE U.N., SHE TOOK THE KICK ME SIGN OFF HER BACK AT THE U.N., MADE SURE AMERICA WAS RESPECTED AGAIN, IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT ATTITUDE, PHILOSOPHY, AND EXPERIENCE GOING INTO THE INTERNATIONAL SPHERE THAT TRUMP CANNOT MATCH.

>> WHAT IS THE ECONOMIC OUTLET OF THE UNITED STATES UNDER PRESIDENT HALEY VERSUS A PRESIDENT TRUMP?

>> BALANCED, STABLE.

I MEAN, INFLATION IS DRIVEN BY ONE THING.

INFLATION IS THE BIGGEST CRUSHER, RIGHT, ON LOW-INCOME AND MIDDLE-INCOME FAMILIES IN AMERICA.

WHEN YOU BALANCE A BUDGET AT THE STATE LEVEL AND FORCE A BALANCED BUDGET AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL, ALL THE OPPORTUNITY NOW FLOWS FORWARD.

YOU'VE GOT TO MAKE TOUGH DECISIONS TO BE SURE.

BUT THAT GETS YOUR HOUSE IN IN ORDER.

WHEN YOU HAVE TO BORROW OR PRINT MONEY, IT'S THE ONLY THING THAT CREATES INFLATION IN AMERICA.

THAT'S THE ONLY THING, BORROWING AND PRINTING MONEY.

TRUMP WAS HORRIBLE AT IT.

FOR ALL THOSE CONSERVATIVES WHO ARE TIRED OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT MISTREATING AND MISRESPECTING THEIR HARD-EARNED DOLLARS, THAT IS EXACTLY WHY YOU SHOULD NOT BE VOTING FOR DONALD TRUMP.

YOU WANT AN ACCOUNTANT.

AN ACCOUNTANT IN THE WHITE HOUSE LIKE NIKKI HALEY, WHAT AN AMAZING OPPORTUNITY.

SHE BRINGS THAT STABILITY BACK TO THE TABLE.

THAT'S AN AMAZING OPPORTUNITY THAT WE JUST HAVEN'T HAD IN DECADES.

>> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY LOOK LIKE AFTER A PRESIDENT -- >> AFTER NEXT WEEK, WHO KNOWS?

>> AFTER -- DO YOU THINK THE FUTURE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY ACTUALLY DOES HINGE ON NEW HAMPSHIRE?

>> LOOK, FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE COULD CREATE AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET NIKKI ELECTED IN SOUTH CAROLINA AND THEN SUPER TUESDAY, AND THAT WOULD BE AMAZING.

>> SO, WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY LOOK LIKE IF NIKKI HALEY IS THE NOMINEE AND THEN BECOMES THE PRESIDENT VERSUS THE FUTURE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IF DONALD TRUMP IS RE-ELECTED.

>> NIKKEI BRINGS A LOT OF -- SHE ALLOWS EVERYONE TO COME TOGETHER.

AS A STRONG CONSERVATIVE, SHE'S SOMEBODY EVERYBODY CAN GALVANIZE AROUND.

WE HAVEN'T HAD THAT IN SO LONG.

THE SAME YOU SAID FOR THE DEMOCRATS.

DEMOCRATS ARE IN THEIR OWN TURMOIL.

THEY HAVE THE PRESIDENCY AND THEY'RE NOT IN A BIG ELECTION BATTLE RIGHT NOW.

SO, THEY'RE ABLE TO AVOID A LOT OF THEIR STRIPES.

BUT BELIEVE YOU ME, THERE'S MASSIVE INTERNAL STRIPES THERE TOO.

SO, YOU KNOW, I TRY NOT TO SAY, WELL, I THINK FIVE YEARS, THIS IS WHERE THE PARTY IS GOING TO BE.

NOBODY REALLY KNOWS.

I THINK WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IS THIS.

TRUMP IS AT THE CENTER OF THE CHAOS AND THE DISRUPTION.

THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT.

>> THAT'S PUTTING IT LIGHTLY, ISN'T IT?

>> WELL, BUT HE IS.

BUT -- IT IS PUTTING IT LIGHTLY, BUT HE ABSOLUTELY IS.

OVER TIME -- LET ME PUT IT THIS WAY.

I THINK THIS IS AN IMPORTANT POINT.

A FORMER PRESIDENT ONCE SAID TO ME, WE'VE GONE THROUGH A LOT IN THIS COUNTRY.

WE WENT THROUGH A CIVIL WAR THAT ALMOST TORE US APART, BUT OUR INSTITUTION STOOD STRONG.

WE WENT THROUGH A WORLD WAR, A COUPLE OF THEM.

WE WENT THROUGH THE '60s, WHERE WE HAD GREAT AMERICAN VOICES AND LEADERS LITERALLY GETTING ASSASSINATED IN FRONT OF US.

AND PEOPLE SAID, IT'S ALL FOR AMERICA.

9/11, A PANDEMIC, OUR INSTITUTION STOOD STRONG.

BAD LEADERS COME AND GO, BUT THE INSTITUTIONS HERE ARE STRONG.

SO, THIS IS -- I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF POLARIZATION AND FIRE BRANDING RIGHT NOW.

I THINK AS THOSE FOLKS, KIND OF, AREN'T PART OF THE SYSTEM ANYMORE EVENTUALLY, THE TEMPERATURE COMES DOWN A LITTLE.

AND THEN SLOWLY BOTH OF THE PARTIES -- THERE ARE ALWAYS GOING TO BE A SPECTRUM WITHIN THOSE PARTIES.

BUT LESS OF THE POLARIZATION WITHIN THEM.

SO, IT'S A DOMINO CHAIN REACTION.

IT ALL STARTS WITH LEADERSHIP.

AND, AGAIN, DONALD TRUMP IS GASOLINE THE FIRE.

NIKKI HALEY BRINGS FOLKS TOGETHER WITH A RECORD OF EXPERIENCE.

I WANT YOUNG PEOPLE IN THIS PARTY.

I WANT THE SUBURBAN MOMS BACK, RIGHT?

I WANT A LOT OF FOLKS THAT HAVE WALKED AWAY FROM THIS PARTY TO GET BACK IN.

BUT RIGHT NOW THERE'S A WALL THERE.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO WIN UNLESS WE BUILD THE PARTY BIGGER.

AND I'M TIRED OF LOSING.

PEOPLE ASK ME, YOU KNOW, WHY I'M SO PASSIONATE ABOUT NIKKI HALEY.

SHE'S A WINNER.

SHE CAN GET MORE WINNERS AND BUILD MORE WINNERS.

THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT.

TRUMP IS A LOSER.

WE LOST BIG IN 2022.

ALL OF HIS CANDIDATES, ALL OF HIS BRANDING, ALL LOST ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

VEHEMENTLY REJECTED.

SO, I'M JUST TIRED OF THAT LEVEL OF LOSING.

I WANT MORE REPUBLICANS TO WIN.

AND I THINK MORE REPUBLICANS SHOULD WANT MORE REPUBLICANS TO WIN.

BUT IT ONLY HAPPENS IF WE SAY, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE, MR. TRUMP, WE'RE MOVING ON TO THE FUTURE.

>> SO, YOU WON'T VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP?

>> IF HE'S THE NOMINEE, IF WE HAVE TO GO FOR THE WEAKEST CANDIDATE, I'LL VOTE FOR THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE BECAUSE THAT'S HOW BAD BIDEN IS.

WE'RE TALKING PRIMARY HERE.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES?

YOU PAINTED THIS PICTURE OF HOW DAMNING HE WOULD BE FOREIGN POLICY, THE DORDER, FISCAL POLICY, HOW BAD HE WOULD BE FOR OUR ECONOMIC OUTLOOK AGAIN.

>> BUT LOOK AT WHAT BIDEN'S DONE.

LOOK AT HOW BAD THIS ADMINISTRATION IS.

PUT IT THIS WAY, BIDEN IS SO -- TRUMP HAD NO ELECTABILITY SIX MONTHS AGO.

BIDEN HAS BECOME SO BAD THAT NOW HE ACTUALLY COULD SQUEAK OUT A WIN.

THAT'S HOW BAD JOE BIDEN IS IS THAT AMERICA WOULD TAKE ALL THAT CHAOS POTENTIALLY OVER JOE BIDEN.

>> LOOK, ON A POLICY FRONT, APPLES TO APPLES, I CAN UNDERSTAND THE ARGUMENT YOU'RE MAKING ON A POLICY FRONT FOR TRUMP OVER BIDEN.

THE DIFFERENCE, AS WE ALL KNOW, IS THAT THERE'S NEVER BEEN A PRESIDENT IN HISTORY WHO HAS TRIED TO HOLD ON TO POWER AND PARTICIPATED ACTIVELY IN A VIOLENT ACT AT THE CAPITOL TO HOLD ON TO POWER.

THAT PEACEFUL TRANSITION OF POWER, WHICH HAS BEEN THE BEDROCK OF AMERICAN INSTITUTIONS AND OUR DEMOCRACY.

SO, CAN YOU REALLY CONSIDER THIS AN APPLES TO APPLES TRANSACTION WHEN YOU CONSIDER THE FUTURE OF THE COUNTRY UNDER A FUTURE BIDEN, A SECOND BIDEN OR A SECOND TRUMP PRESIDENCY?

>> ACCORDING TO POLLS, MOST AMERICANS AGREE WITH ME.

>> WELL -- THAT'S NOT TRUE.

>> ACCORDING TO THE POLLS, TRUMP WOULD BEAT BIDEN TODAY BY A POINT OR TWO.

>> THAT IS CORRECT -- >> THIS ISN'T OBSCURE THOUGHTS THAT THE REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR IS GOING TO GET BY ON THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE.

>> I KNOW.

BUT WHEN YOU DO LOOK AT THE POLLS, YOU ALSO NOTICE THAT TRUMP BEGINS TO LOSE UNDER THE HYPOTHESIS OR UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE THERE IS A CONVICTION OF DONALD TRUMP.

>> THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE -- LOOK -- >> I KNOW YOU DON'T THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE -- >> IF EVERYONE IS WAITING FOR A CONVICTION TO STOP DONALD TRUMP, DON'T.

GO TO THE BALLOT BOX.

YOU BETTER PARTICIPATE IN DEMOCRACY.

DEMOCRACY IS WHAT MOVES DONALD TRUMP ON.

DEMOCRACY IS WHAT BEATS DONALD TRUMP.

BUT YOU'VE GOT TO GO OUT AND VOTE.

DON'T WAIT FOR SOMEBODY ELSE TO FIX THIS PROBLEM THAT YOU FORESEE.

GO PARTICIPATE.

GO BE THE SOLUTION.

THAT'S THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS.

>> I FULLY ENDORSE THAT APPROACH.

I THINK THAT IS THE HEALTHY APPROACH.

I THINK YOU HAVE TO BEAT PEOPLE AT THE BALLOT BOX.

WHY, THOUGH, WHEN PEOPLE GO INTO THE BALLOT BOX -- YOU HAVE SAID IN NEW HAMPSHIRE THE COURT CASES AREN'T WEIGHING ON PEOPLES -- >> ANYWHERE IN AMERICA THEY AREN'T.

>> EXPLAIN THAT TO ME WHY, FOR EXAMPLE, IN ONE COURT CASE, A JURY OF TRUMP'S PEERS FOUND HIM LIABLE FOR SEXUAL ABUSE AND DEFAMATION IN A CIVIL CASE FOR AN INCIDENT THAT THE JUDGE CALLED RAPE.

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT DOESN'T RESONATE WITH VOTERS?

>> SO, THERE'S A COUPLE THINGS GOING ON.

YOU HAVE MULTIPLE -- THIS IS WHY IT DOESN'T RESONATE.

YOU HAVE MULTIPLE CASES.

SOME ARE CIVIL.

SOME ARE FEDERAL.

SOME ARE STATE.

SOME ARE OVER ELECTIONS.

SOME ARE OVER THE SEXUAL ABUSE AND ALL THIS KIND OF STUFF.

SOME ARE LEGITIMATE.

SOME PEOPLE THINK THEY'RE POLITICALLY DRIVEN.

AND I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT.

BUT IT'S ALL CONVOLUTED.

YOU GET A DIFFERENT STORY ABOUT A DIFFERENT COURT CASE EVERY DAY -- >> YOU'RE SAYING ONE CASE WOULD BE FINE BUT 91 FELONIES IS TOO CONFUSING TO FOLLOW.

>> IT'S ALL BECOME WHITE NOISE, UNFORTUNATELY.

THE AVERAGE PERSON OUT THERE IS JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO PAY FOR THEIR NEXT MEAL AT McDONALD'S BECAUSE OF INFLATION.

TODAY IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, IT'S 14 DEGREES, THEY JUST GOT A BILL FOR 750 BUCKS TO FILL THEIR FUEL TANK.

THEY UNDERSTAND THERE'S CHAOS WITH TRUMP, BUT DON'T FOOL YOURSELF.

MOST AMERICAN VOTERS ARE NOT FOLLOWING THE DETAILS.

THEY'RE NOT FOLLOWING THE BOUNCING BALL, KNOWING THAT THIS IS GOING TO GO ON FOR YEARS.

SO, IT WON'T ENTER THEIR CALCULUS WHEN IT COMES TO THE BALLOT BOX.

>> AS YOU SAID, PEOPLE ARE THINKING ABOUT WHAT THE BEST CHOICE FOR THEM IS.

ARE YOU REALLY SUCH A PARTISAN THAT YOU THINK YOU WOULD VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP, THAT THAT WOULD BE THE BEST CHOICE FOR THE COUNTRY IF HE WERE THE NOMINEE?

>> WELL, I -- SUCH A PARTISAN?

I DON'T -- >> I MEAN, IS IT -- >> THAT'S LABELLING RIGHT THERE.

ARE THERE ANY -- >> NO, NO, YOU SAY YOU'RE A REPUBLICAN AND YOU'RE ONLY GOING TO VOTE FOR THE REPUBLICAN EVEN ALL THESE THINGS.

>> IT'S A BINARY CHOICE.

IF YOU DON'T VOTE FOR ONE, IT'S ESSENTIALLY A VOTE FOR THE OTHER.

AND THERE'S -- I MEAN, WHAT BIDEN HAS DONE TO THIS COUNTRY, THE LACK OF MANAGEMENT, THE MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF THIS WOKE-ISM, THIS SOCIALISM, YES, I WOULD VOTE FOR THE REPUBLICAN.

THIS IS MY OTHER HOPE.

IT'S NOT JUST THE PRESIDENT.

IT'S WHO HE SURROUNDS -- MY HOPE IS HE WOULD BRING IN A BETTER TEAM.

BIDEN'S CABINET IS AWFUL.

I MEAN, AWFUL.

TRUMP AT LEAST HAS THE ABILITY TO PUT A GOOD TEAM IN PLACE.

>> DOES HE?

>> HE HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO IT, YEAH.

YEAH.

>> IF IT'S GOVERNOR HALEY VERSUS BIDEN IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, WHO WINS?

>> OH, HALEY WOULD CRUSH HIM.

>> IF IT'S TRUMP V. BIDEN, WHO WINS?

>> IN NEW HAMPSHIRE?

>> YEAH.

>> OH, BIDEN.

BIDEN WOULD BEAT HIM AGAIN.

>> YOU SAY BIDEN WOULD BE WORSE THAN TRUMP.

>> WITHOUT A DOUBT.

>> HOW DO YOU THEN GRAPPLE WITH THE THINGS DONALD TRUMP IS SAYING HE WILL DO WHEN HE'S PRESIDENT?

HE SAYS HE'LL USE THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO TARGET HIS CRITICS.

HE SAYS THAT HE WILL TERMINATE THE CONSTITUTION AND USE THE MILITARY FOR DOMESTIC LAW ENFORCEMENT.

I MEAN, HE'S SAYING THINGS THAT ARE OUTRAGEOUS AND HE'S SAID THEM BEFORE.

HE'S ALSO MORE ORGANIZED THIS TIME.

>> HE IS.

>> AND HE HAS VERY EFFECTIVE PEOPLE AROUND HIM.

DOES THAT GIVE YOU PAUSE?

>> NO, CAMPAIGN RHETORIC, EXTREMISM.

THAT'S WHAT TRUMP HAS DONE FOREVER.

TRUMP HAS SAID OUTRAGEOUS THINGS SINCE WELL BEFORE HE WAS PRESIDENT.

>> HE'S BEEN ABLE TO MOBILIZE VIOLENCE NOW, WHICH WE'VE SEEN SINCE THEN.

DOES THAT GIVE YOU PAUSE?

>> IN TERMS OF -- >> AFTER JANUARY 6th.

>> OH, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT JANUARY 6th.

OF COURSE IT GIVES ME PAUSE.

THERE'S NO QUESTION.

IT SHOULD GIVE EVERYBODY PAUSE.

NOBODY LIKES TO HEAR THAT KIND OF STUFF, ESPECIALLY OUT OF SOMEBODY WHO COULD BE THE LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD.

I BELIEVE HE COULD POTENTIALLY PUT A MUCH BETTER TEAM TOGETHER TO MANAGE THE INDIVIDUAL ASPECTS OF GOVERNMENT FAR AND AWAY BETTER THAN JOE BIDEN.

THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT.

AND MOST AMERICANS WOULD AGREE WITH ME.

>> IT FEELS LIKE FANTASY THINKING, BUT I'M GOING TO MOVE ON.

>> WHAT FANTASY THINKING?

THAT HE WOULD PUT A BETTER TEAM TOGETHER?

>> THAT HE WOULD PUT A GREAT TEAM TOGETHER.

>> BIDEN'S IS THAT BAD.

>> HE WANTS TO USE THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO TARGET HIS ENEMIES.

>> LOOK, I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO THE -- THERE ARE ARGUMENTS TO BE MADE THAT THE DEMOCRATS HAVE DONE JUST THAT.

>> BUT NO DEMOCRATS HAVE MARSHALLED VIOLENCE AGAINST THE CAPITOL TO HOLD ON TO POWER.

>> JANUARY 6th IS AWFUL.

IT WAS ABSOLUTELY AWFUL.

BUT TO SAY, WELL, JUST BECAUSE OF JANUARY 6th HE'S NOT GOING TO GET ELECTED.

>> NO, I'M NOT SAYING JUST BECAUSE OF JANUARY 6th HE WON'T GET ELECTED.

I THINK HE VERY WELL COULD GET ELECTED.

BUT SHOULD HE?

>> IF THE PEOPLE VOTE FOR HIM, YES.

IT'S NOT UP TO YOU.

IT'S NOT UP TO ME.

IT'S ONLY ABOUT THE VOTERS.

AND THE VOTERS HAVE THE SAY.

>> YOU'RE THE GOVERNOR OF A STATE, YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO SAY WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN?

>> NO, NO, NO.

>> -- NIKKI HALEY.

>> I HAVE TO BE HONEST.

THAT'S A REALLY DANGEROUS PREMISE THAT YOU'RE PUTTING OUT THERE.

BECAUSE I'M A GOVERNOR I SHOULD SAY WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN?

THE VOTERS DECIDE WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

NO QUESTION.

>> IT'S ALL ABOUT THE VOTERS.

>> BUT YOU WOULD STILL VOTE FOR TRUMP UNDER THAT CIRCUMSTANCE?

>> I WOULD, YEAH.

YEAH.

>> I WANT TO MOVE ON, BUT I THINK THE POINT IS, IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE THAT YOU, CHRIS SUNUNU, WHO RECOGNIZES HOW SEVERE JANUARY 6th WAS, WOULD STILL VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP.

>> I'VE BEEN VERY CONSISTENT ON SUPPORTING THE REPUBLICANS.

>> I KNOW YOU HAVE.

BUT BECAUSE YOU'RE A BIG PARTISAN.

>> I'M NOT A DEMOCRAT.

I'M NOT AN INDEPENDENT.

>> THERE'S NO REPUBLICAN YOU WOULDN'T VOTE FOR EVEN IF CONVICTED CRIMINAL.

>> HE'S NOT GOING TO BE CONVICTED.

YOU'RE THROWING A HYPOTHETICAL OUT THERE.

>> WE DON'T KNOW THAT.

>> YOU'RE ASKING ME HYPOTHETICALS.

I'M GOING TO GO ON WHAT IS -- >> LET'S MOVE ON.

YOUR DAD, JOHN SUNUNU, AFTER BEING GOVERNOR OF NEW HAMPSHIRE, HAVING THE SAME JOB YOU HAVE NOW, WENT ON TO BE CHIEF OF STAFF FOR GEORGE H.W.

BUSH.

>> YEAH.

GREAT PRESIDENT.

>> GEORGE H.W.

BUSH APPEARED ON "FIRING LINE" WHEN HE WAS CHAIR OF THE RNC.

AND HE WAS DISCUSSING HOW REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES SHOULD HANDLE PRESIDENT NIXON IN THE WAKE OF WATERGATE.

>> OKAY.

>> SEE WHAT HE SAID THEN.

>> AS HEAD OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, IS IT UNCOMFORTABLE FOR YOU TO COOPERATE WITH PEOPLE RUNNING FOR CONGRESS ON A I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH NIXON TICKET?

>> WELL, IT'S NOT -- I THINK WE'VE GOT ROOM IN OUR PARTY FOR DIVERSITY.

IT'S NOT UNCOMFORTABLE FOR ME TO COOPERATE WITH HIM.

AND MY ADVICE TO HIM -- AND FEW PEOPLE SEEK IT THESE DAYS.

IF THEY DO, I'LL SAY, LOOK, EMPHASIZE THE GOOD THINGS THE ADMINISTRATION HAS DONE AND JUMP UP AND DOWN AND SAY YOU DON'T LIKE WATERGATE.

BE AGAINST THE BAD THINGS, BE FOR THE GOOD THING.

>> VERY DIFFERENT APPROACH TO NIXON THAN I THINK IS THE APPROACH TO TRUMP.

TRUMP HAS BEEN ENDORSED BY MORE THAN HALF OF GOP MEMBERS OF CONGRESS AND SEVERAL OF YOUR FELLOW GOVERNORS.

IS THERE ROOM IN THE PARTY FOR, LIKE THERE WAS WITH NIXON, A DIVERSITY OF VIEWPOINTS ABOUT DONALD TRUMP?

>> OF COURSE.

YEAH.

ABSOLUTELY.

AS THE FORMER PRESIDENT SAID, YOU KNOW, THERE'S LITE OF ROOM IN THE PARTY FOR A LOT OF DIFFERENT IDEAS.

THERE'S NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

>> YOU'RE A SUCCESSFUL REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR IN WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A BLUE STATE, PURPLE STATE.

IS THERE A MODEL HERE FOR A NATIONAL -- A REPUBLICAN WHO CAN WIN NATIONALLY?

>> LOOK, PEOPLE WANT SOMEBODY TO CONNECT WITH.

THEY WANT SOMEONE WHO'S LIKABLE.

THEY DON'T NEED TO BUY OFF ON EVERY POLICY.

THEY DON'T NEED TO AGREE WITH YOU ON EVERY POLICY TO BE SUCCESSFUL.

THEY WANT TO KNOW YOU'RE GENUINE AND AT THE END OF THE DAY YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO GET STUFF DONE AND MOVE THE BALL FORWARD THE WAY THEY WANT IT MOVED FORWARD.

>> GOVERNOR SAUNUNU -- >> YOU BET.

>> -- THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

>> THIS IS GREAT.

>> "FIRING LINE" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY ROBERT GRENIER, THE FAIR WEATHER FOUNDATION, PETER AND MARY, THE ASTON FAMILY FOUNDATION, THE BETH AND -- McKENNA FAMILY FOUNDATION, CHARLES R. SCHWAB, AND BY ROSALIND P. WALTER FOUNDATION, ROGER AND SUSAN -- AND BLAIR EFRON, AL AND KATHY HUBBARD.

CORPORATE FUNDING IS PROVIDED BY STEVENS INC. AND BY PFIZER INC. ♪ ♪ >>> YOU'RE WATCHING PBS.