[piano intro] - Hello, I'm Nido Qubein.

Welcome to "Side By Side."

My guest today is a former White House advisor, author, and whistling champion.

Known for his unique talent, he inspires others how to find their own whistle in life.

Join me as we welcome Chris Ullman, the founder and president of Ullman Communications.

- [Announcer] Funding for "Side By Side with Nido Qubein" is made possible by.

- [Announcer] Coca-Cola Consolidated is honored to make and serve 300 brands and flavors locally thanks to our teammates.

We are Coca-Cola Consolidated, your local bottler.

- [Announcer] The Budd Group has been serving the southeast for over 60 years.

Specializing in janitorial, landscape, and facility solutions, our trusted staff delivers exceptional customer satisfaction.

Comprehensive facility support with the Budd Group.

- [Announcer] Truist.

We are here to help people, communities, and businesses thrive in North Carolina and beyond.

The commitment of our teammates makes the difference every day.

Truist, leaders in banking, unwavering in care.

[bright electronic music] - Chris, welcome to "Side By Side."

Your life is fascinating.

I mean, you are in the Whistling Hall of Fame.

You have written a fantastic book about life and living and happiness and other important subjects.

You worked in the White House, and today you are a communication expert for some of the largest financial institutions and others across these United States.

So I have so many questions I want to ask you.

Let's begin with you whistled in the Oval Office for the President of the United States.

- First of all, thanks so much for having me, Nido, it is great to be with you.

Yes, I whistled for George W. Bush in the Oval Office.

It was just an amazing experience.

It was a command performance where I worked in his administration, but I had never met him.

And he learned about the whistling.

And then one day I was just summoned to the Oval Office and I walk into the Oval Office, there's- - You thought you were gonna be fired or promoted?

- Well, when you're a spokesman, you never know.

If you say something stupid, people notice.

So I walk in there and he's sitting at his desk, his feet are up on the desk, and he's holding an unlit cigar in his hand.

And he sees me and he jumps up and he comes around the desk and he says, "Welcome."

He said, "Do you need water?

Do you sit, do you stand?"

Who taught you how to whistle?"

And I was like, "Whoa, all right."

I'm moist and puckered.

I'm ready to go.

- Yes, and so you actually, was it just you and him in the Oval Office?

- No, well, it started out as my boss, a guy named Mitch Daniels, who was the head of the Office of Management and Budget.

- He became president of the university, yes.

- [Chris] Yes, and governor of Indiana.

- And a successful one at that.

- Yeah, and, but it started out with the three of us and ended up with around 20 people, including the vice president, the White House Counsel, the spokesperson.

It was an incredible experience.

I got to whistle a whole bunch of songs.

He asked me how I learned how to whistle and the like.

So it was a great honor to be able to whistle for him.

- Were you nervous?

- I didn't have time to get nervous.

Sometimes if you have days before you have to do something, you just ponder it and you like get all worried about it.

This time I had 15 minutes notice, and my boss and I walked over there, and he said, "What are you gonna whistle?"

And I said, "Yeah, I'll just whistle some of my standards and hopefully he will like that."

And he did, and he wrote a very sweet note to my father, and he said, "Chris came by the Oval to share his gift with me."

And because my father taught me how to whistle and- - Wow.

- So it was an amazing experience.

I will never forget that.

- Would any other American, or otherwise from any part of the world, claim that they whistled for the president of the United States in the Oval Office?

- I think it is a first and a last.

- Well, that's amazing.

And I know that you are in the Whistling Hall of Fame, and I believe that the, what do you call it the where you go and sort of perform and compete, the competition was in North Carolina.

- Yes, so for 40 years here, in Louisburg, North Carolina, was the International Whistling Competition, which most people don't know about.

But, so Louisburg has a very special place in my heart.

So I competed nine times.

I won the Grand Championship four times.

I was a judge a few times.

I just love North Carolina, love Louisburg.

I met wonderful people.

Because whistling is a happy thing.

It's not divisive, and it's joyous.

You can make music happen rather than just think about it.

I can walk down the street and whistle a Beethoven piano concerto, or I could whistle some jazz and it brings, and another thing I do is I whistle "Happy Birthday" 700 times a year for friends and family.

So God gave me this gift and then he said, "Do something with it."

So I try to share it with people by whistling "Happy Birthday."

- Was it video or audio or in person?

- Yeah, yeah, actually, I usually record it and then text it to people because they like to have it.

And they share with people.

- I see.

- I got a note, just, I did four of them yesterday.

I got a note this morning that said, "You made my day."

And I call this, it's like little packets of love that you can share with someone.

It's not a huge thing.

I'm not climbing Mount Everest or rowing across the Atlantic.

I am just taking the simple gift and sharing it with people and bringing a little joy to them.

If you were at a typical graduation ceremony in college, the speaker will say, "Now go change the world."

I don't like that.

I want them to say, "Change the life of the person next to you," because that's a hundred percent possible.

Changing the world is effectively impossible.

I'd rather tell people, "Find your gift."

Mine happens to be whistling.

You have many gifts.

"And share them with the person next to you.

Touch their heart and their life in this just little way."

- Mm-hmm, well, what got you into whistling.

I mean, you are an expert in communication.

You worked in the White House, for heaven's sakes.

You now have your own communication firm.

Why would someone like you make whistling a big part of his life?

And where did you get it from?

You said your dad?

- Well, yeah, my dad was a great whistler.

He wasn't a champion, but he had a very beautiful whistle and he whistled all the time.

So when I was five years old, just following him around the house and he's whistling, and then I finally figured it out.

You put your lips together and.

[whistles] So little by little I developed the talent.

And so over the years, I just kept getting better and better.

I could have a wider range.

I had new techniques that I could do.

And then also I developed my repertoire, being able to whistle jazz, blues, show tunes, classical.

- National anthem I heard you do.

- Yes, I've done that at the Orioles, the Texas Rangers, the Cincinnati Reds, Duke men's basketball, which was an amazing experience.

And then I started competing, won the Grand Championship a number of times.

Now, as people have told me, whistling doesn't pay very well, so you do need a job.

But what's been interesting is I've had this really nice career in communications for 40 years now, and the whistling has been kind of a parallel overlay.

So in each job, I bring my whistle to the office.

I'm doing my job, but if it's someone's birthday, I'll whistle "Happy Birthday" for them.

One time my boss summoned me to his office and said, "There is the owner of the Washington Wizards NBA basketball team," and he said, "Whistle for Ted," Ted Leonsis.

And I said, "Okay."

So I whistled and Ted said, "All right, you're in."

And I said, "In what?"

And he said, "You're gonna whistle the national anthem at an NBA game."

Which I did, and it was great, people love it.

- Well, you were on "The Tonight Show," "The Today Show."

Were you whistling there, is that?

- Yes, so after I won the competition the first time in 1994, it's been a little while, I was on "The Tonight Show with Jay Leno," I was on "The Today Show" with Katie Couric, and I've done NPR and CNN, I've been in "The New York Times," "The Wall Street Journal," "The Washington Post."

Because whistling is kind of quirky, it's quirky, but I take it seriously.

So I've whistled with 12 symphony orchestras, for example.

So that's serious.

But then I can go to an open mic night and jam with a blues band and people generally like it.

- That's amazing.

So, okay, Chris, you've teased us enough, you gotta whistle, do something.

- All right, all right.

So this is a song I did, this is very freaky, at the top of the Washington Monument on the outside, believe it or not.

- Wow, were you feeling bad that day?

- Well, it had been damaged in the 2011 earthquake, and they put scaffolding on the outside to fix it.

And then I got to go to the tippy top and I whistled "Yankee Doodle Dandy" in honor of George Washington.

So here we go.

[whistling] [Chris whistling continues] [Chris whistling continues] - Wow.

Great job.

- Pretty good?

- Thank you.

- So, can you teach someone to whistle?

- Absolutely.

- Or does one have to have certain formation of lips or?

- Well, that, it's actually this almost existential question.

So whistling is three factors: lips, tongue, air, and I can teach people how to position their lips, where to put their tongue, blow gently.

And most people can figure it out.

But if you are an adult and you have tried for decades to whistle and you can't, the odds are there's no hope for you.

- That's a giveaway right there.

Well, all that's fascinating to me and I'm sure to others.

Let's talk about what you do now.

You are now advising financial institutions and others to do what?

- So I have this just wonderful blessed career of in communications.

So it's very service-oriented.

My job is to help senior people, CEOs, presidents of universities, presidents and CEOs of major corporations and financial services, investment firms figure out how to communicate more effectively to achieve their business objectives and to manage risk and to manage things that are negative, that are happening in their direction.

And so across almost 40 years- - It'd be like reputation management or?

- Yeah, so it's a lot about reputation management.

And when I'm working with the C-suite in particular, it's very much about how to speak coherently about who you are as a person or as an organization or as an institution, and how to communicate effectively with the important, whether it's the media, it could be your shareholders, your clients, your employees.

So it's very much about what is your brand, like who are you as an organization or as a person, and how do you communicate that effectively to these different audiences?

And I have this thing, it's called, the way I describe it is, when you are an expert in you or your organization, you have what I call perfect information.

You know everything.

But people on the outside are blindfolded and have thick gloves on.

So they're trying to feel you and figure you out.

I help the CEO and organizations take the most important parts of their person or organization and share it with that person, and removes the blindfold and removes the gloves so they can understand you.

And sometimes when you're on the inside, it's hard to do that because you have so much information.

But as an outsider, I can come in and figure out what's most important to share with these different audiences.

- Well, how does one do that?

What are the one or two or three principles or suggestions that you make?

- I always start with why, why do you exist?

And trying to get to the core of that, because too many people start with things.

They start with what.

And I'm more about, for example, if you wrote a book, most people would say, "Lemme tell you about the book."

Oh, it does this, this, and this.

And I'd say, "Well, you haven't told me why I should buy your book."

But if you tell me this book is going to help you overcome a challenge, I haven't told you any of the details yet, you'll say, "Well, I have challenges and I want to overcome those challenges."

So the first thing I do is get to the heart of why, why does an organization exist.

And why, you as a leader, why do you exist?

What is your purpose?

Very purpose-driven.

- In other words, why should someone care about.

- Yes, at its core, why should someone care about you as a person, you as an organization, and the like, and I help reveal that.

- So I suspect some people are better than others in carrying forth your recommendations.

- Yes, actually, I love it when a client thinks I'm a genius, because I've done this for 40 years, and I have pattern recognition, I have hundreds of case studies that I can point to of what works, but I tailor it to you.

But then, and a lot of people say, "I get it, I'm excited."

You see the light go on, and then they can carry it out.

Other people say, "Hmm, I know me, I'm better."

I mean, I had a prospective client recently where we were talking about this very thing of the best practice and the best way to achieve it, a certain thing.

And he said, "Nope, nope, that's not how you do it."

And I said, "Actually, that is how you do it."

So much of life is about, are you open-minded, are you humble, and are you willing to then execute on kind of project or not?

And I'm a huge believer in humility and openness and kind of inquisitiveness, because all around us, there are people with knowledge.

And we can either say, "I know it all," or, "I am going to tap into kind of this resident knowledge with all these experts around me."

So I am just a sponge all the time.

I love people, I love gathering information, and that makes me smarter, and then it helps me help my clients.

- So are you speaking about persuasion?

what are you really in, communication, what is the fundamental cornerstone that makes one a better communicator?

Is it authenticity?

Is it persuasion?

Is it the capacity to put the right words together?

Is the capacity to write or speak?

In your vast experience, what would someone watching us today say, "Yeah, I just picked up two or three really, really good points."

One of them is, why should someone care?

What else?

- Yeah, I'm glad you brought up persuasion.

So I'm in financial services.

So a client says, "I have a fund and I am seeking investors."

That is all about persuasion.

And it starts with why, why is now a good time to invest?

And then why us?

Why should you, Mr. And Mrs. Investor, give me your money to invest on your behalf?

That is all about the why, now is a good opportunity to invest.

It's about the how.

I have a secret sauce.

And it's about persuading them in that there is a why, and there is a how.

And you do that through facts, through logic, through a track record.

But I mean, ultimately it's about this why, the why.

Because a lot of people, they avoid the why, because it's- - Everybody has self-interest, is what you're saying.

- Yes.

- Everybody has self-interest.

Your job is to create an enlightenment about that self-interest, the application.

- Yes, ultimately it's about empathy.

If I'm an investment firm and you're a prospective investor, I could sit here and tell you how great I am, but where I should start is, what do you need?

What do you want?

And am I listening to that?

And then can I help you achieve that objective?

That is at the core of persuasion, is really good listening and empathy.

- If you're speaking to people who wanna speak in public, and I realize that's not principally what you do, but it's in the same genre of knowledge and experience.

What makes someone good on the platform?

- Energy, focus, I think understanding their audience, shaping their message in a way that humanizes it.

I think good case studies that takes kind of a more almost ethereal notion and makes it tangible, because people like tangible things.

And.

- What does that mean, Chris?

- So you, it's anecdote, that's really what it comes down to is, can you use anecdotes to make the case for something?

I recently wrote a book about how to be successful and- - What's the name of the book?

- It is called "Four Billionaires and a Parking Attendant."

- "Four Billionaires and a Parking Attendant?"

- And a Parking Attendant.

Yes.

And the whole premise is that, if you want to be successful, you must be open-minded and humble and determined.

And then I take these lessons learned from some of the most successful people in the world, the four billionaires included, but the CEOs of major corporations, Lou Gerstner from IBM.

And then you take these lessons and you stuff them in people's brains because they're open-minded.

And then they can learn from these incredibly successful people to achieve their version of success.

It's not me telling you what success is, it's you saying, "I want to be successful with my gifts, but I can learn from some of these incredibly successful people."

And here's the heart of the answer to your question is that every lesson is told through an anecdote.

I think stories help illustrate very effectively a point you're trying to make.

So I think public speakers who can harness anecdote to be able to make the case will be more compelling.

- Like Jesus did with the parables.

- Absolutely.

Yeah.

- That's what Norman Vincent Peale, one of the greatest speakers of our time, would do.

His sermons were all about three points, each one illustrated with a story, right?

Where does the parking attendant come into this?

- So with a title like Four Billionaires, and most people think this is just about how to be rich, and absolutely not.

You can learn from rich people, but you can also learn from a parking attendant.

So the lesson from the parking attendant is about happiness.

So every day I would drive my car into the parking lot at the company I worked at, and this young man who's an immigrant from Ethiopia, he would be happy and he would say, "Mr. Chris, great to see you.

Gimme your keys.

I'll park your car."

And we became friends.

When he became an American citizen, I took my daughters to his naturalization ceremony.

It gives me a shiver to this day to see someone become an American.

And I was fascinated by the fact that here is this parking attendant, not making a lot of money, in the basement of a building.

It's cold in the winter, it's hot in the summer, it's kind of dim, but he's happy.

And then I take the elevator up four flights, and I get outta the elevator, and literally a billionaire, a billionaire, a billionaire.

And you know what, they're not particularly happy.

But the parking attendant was, and I really admire that.

And I interviewed him for the book, and I said, "Sala," his name is Sala.

I said, "Why are you happy?"

And he is a devout Muslim, and he believes that God gave him gifts, and it's his duty to appreciate them and to make the most of them, and to make the kinda the most of his situation.

And to not let kinda the challenges drag him down.

And it's so inspiring.

So he really taught me a lot about happiness.

- In the book, do you define happiness, what is happiness?

- Yes, so happiness is, I believe, everyone can have their definition of it, is harnessing the gifts that God gave you to be your best.

And then I believe you have a duty to share and to make the most of those things.

- So you live now in where, Washington, New York?

- So I'm in Alexandria, Virginia, just outside of Washington.

- Yes, and but you love North Carolina as you already stated.

- I do.

I love it.

- You loved it so much so that you've invested in a summer home in North Carolina.

- Yes, I have a summer home here.

And my in-laws live in Charlotte, so I've spent a lot of time in the state.

It is a beautiful state.

The people are nice, the roads are in good shape.

I love it here.

- It all began in Louisburg, North Carolina?

- It it did, which is a really nice little city, and with nice people.

- So Chris, you worked with The Carlyle Group for a long time.

That's one of the most famous and the biggest groups in the country.

Carlyle Group owns, what, many, many portfolio companies, right, it's a private equity group.

Am I stating that correctly?

- That's right.

I was there for 18 years running their global communications.

When I joined, I was the only one.

By the time I left, we had this world class global team helping to define the brand of the organization, helping us to communicate effectively with our employees and all these other audiences.

And at its core, a private equity firm buys things, makes 'em better, sells them.

- Sells them, yes.

- That is it at the core.

- And makes a profit for the investors.

- Yes, and a lot of our investors are public pension funds, including in North Carolina and around the world.

And so it's not just about making rich people richer.

Most of our investors are public pensioners, and helping them have secure retirements.

So it was a spectacular job.

I just loved it, there a long time, then I decided to start my own consulting firm.

I was once told, "If you don't start your own business by age 37, you won't."

And I rejected that and I started my business at 55, and I'll be 62 soon.

And it's going great; I was profitable on day one.

- Wow, it's a services company, right?

- Yeah, professional services, yeah.

- So how big is whistling in your life, and does it help you in your business?

I mean, does it open doors for you, does it?

- That's really interesting.

It is huge in my life, so I whistle every day.

And this notion of infusing music into my brain, because music is a true gift from God.

I don't care if it's rap music, Beethoven, or show tunes.

It takes you to a different place.

So to be able to reproduce that, when I'm in the car, I put on Strauss' waltzes and whistle, and it's been this really interesting way of networking and keeping in touch with people.

So being able to whistle for 700 people a year is a great way to just keep in touch with nice people I've met through the years.

And then getting to meet just tons of people.

So for example, David Rubenstein, who is the founder of Carlyle and is a billionaire financier philanthropist.

He does this interview series at the Library of Congress.

So he interviews historians in front of members of Congress.

So I went with him one time, and right before it started, he said, "Hey, do you wanna whistle before I talk?"

And I said, "Do you think that's appropriate?"

And he said, "Oh, they'll love it."

- But you brought some happiness in there?

- I did, I brought some happiness there.

I met some interesting people at the event because of that.

And that's how I've gotten to whistle all these national anthems and the like.

So it's been good for business too.

- It leads to all kinds of opportunities.

Chris Ullman, thank you for being with me on "Side By Side."

It's fascinating to talk to a guy like you, you're fluid and flowing in your narrative and very persuasive, to say the very least.

Thank you, sir.

- Thank you, Nido.

What an honor to be with you.

- Thank you.

[bright orchestral music] [bright orchestral music continues] - [Announcer] Funding for "Side By Side with Nido Qubein" is made possible by.

- [Announcer] Coca-Cola.

Consolidated is honored to make and serve 300 brands and flavors locally thanks to our teammates.

We are Coca-Cola Consolidated, your local bottler.

- [Announcer] The Budd Group has been serving the southeast for over 60 years.

Specializing in janitorial, landscape, and facility solutions, our trusted staff delivers exceptional customer satisfaction.

Comprehensive facility support with the Budd Group.

- [Announcer] Truist, we are here to help people, communities, and businesses thrive in North Carolina and beyond.

The commitment of our teammates makes the difference every day.

Truist, leaders in banking, unwavering in care.